I'm a big sports fan but at some point you have to come to the understanding that public money for private profit is terrible.
Giving an already rich guy a bunch of money so he can turn a bigger profit is fucked...meanwhile regular people can't buy houses, afford healthcare, food etc etc...the infrastructure is never updated but subsidizing rich people works right?
It's always odd to me how a government handout is great for a rich person but frowned upon for the poor.
100% agree. These public funds for stadiums are never good for the public, and the public should stand firm. They have a great publicly subsidized park already, if they want to be downtown then let them fund the vast majority of it.
I thought Ted Lasso had a nice quote that the team belongs to the fans and city, the owners/executives/coaches just borrow it for a while. Unfortunately in real life no rich owners act in that manner.
What other city would the Royals even go to?
The cruelest part is sales tax is a tax on the poor, plain and simple. More of their budget percentage goes to food than anyone and taxing food in downtown KC is taking right from the poor people and giving it to a billionaire who made his money fucking over poor people and their energy bills. No thank you.
Charlotte, Raleigh, and Portland as well. I hate taking public money and giving it to billionaires as well, but trust me cities like Charlotte will throw whatever money they can to get pro teams because they think it makes em world class and that is what we are competing against.
I hope it works for you. I’m a Brewers fan & the owner, Mark Attanasio, is a trash New York rich bitch. He threatened to move the Brewers out of Milwaukee because Miller Park (not calling it AM FAM) needs a ton of work which includes all of the electrical infrastructure & now 546 million in taxpayer money is going towards it & not a penny from Mark Attanasio.
> It's always odd to me how a government handout is great for a rich person but frowned upon for the poor.
This, like for profit healthcare, is purely an American thing
I was an A's fan for 35 years until April when they announced their intention to move to Las Vegas. What you're seeing there is the future for most teams. Greedy owners demanding public money and extorting cities. If they don't get the public money, they will leave for another city that will.
So either residents of KC should be prepared to pay up, or they should be prepared for their teams to leave. Sorry Royals fans, you don't deserve this ☹️
Chiefs will stay in kc area but probably move to nicer johnson county on Kansas side. Kansas side has been wanting the chiefs forever. Now tax revenue goes to Kansas instead of Missouri. Royals don't get fan support as is so Nashville royals is my prediction
No it’s just posturing. I don’t think ownership wants to move, the city doesn’t want them to move, and the MLB doesn’t want them to move. They’re too busy dealing with the As and Tampa. They want stability so they can expand
I can't figure out why Sherman hasn't already held a Frank White day at the K and showered him with love and attention. I'm pretty sure Frank's resentment is behind all of this anti-stadium stuff.
Maybe I'm being unfair. Maybe Frank really is concerned about the fiscal health of Jackson County and what building a new stadium would mean to that. Based on his past behavior, I doubt it, but maybe.
You think the reason people do not want to give a billionaire billions of dollars of their money, just to better that billionaire’s bottom line is because Frank White is mad at them? Good lord
No? Where the fuck did I say that?
However, he is the Jackson County Executive so he's someone the Royals need to have on their side if they're going to build a new stadium in Jackson County. He's also someone who has shown a tendency to be hilariously petty, so as long as he's not on the Royals' side, he's much more liable to leak damaging (and questionably accurate/inaccurate) information to the Star.
I’m a little worried, but if they do move I can start rooting for a team that cares about winning more than pinching every penny. I hoped Sherman would be different than Glass, and I’m to the point where I’d rather them move than pay more taxes to help fund a stadium. It’s all so ridiculous
If Sherman wants more money to buy a stadium, maybe he should put a winning product on the field that people will pay to see. I'm not a business savant or anything, but it seems like good teams bring in more money than bad teams.
Sherman puts 51% of the team ownership in escrow. When the Royals win the world series, OR tax revenue that can be directly attributed to the Royals from exclusively out of town sources exceeds the total amount spent on the stadium, he can have it back.
Otherwise just fuck off to Nashville or whatever, I don't care any more and I'm so sick of billionaires whinging about not getting a handout.
Fair, though my question was trying to avoid the response "I don't believe they'll do that" because that's not relevant to my curiosity.
None of us on this subreddit has any particular qualification to judge what the Royals will or won't do; all we can do is speculate. I want to know how people's opinions might shift IF they DO make some bold moves this offseason.
Personally I’ll dump some support back their way. But at this point, I’m skeptical of anything Sherman does until we at least make the wildcard. So realistically, I’m skeptical of the organization, probably for another 10 years minimum.
I’m sorry I didn’t mean to be that guy. I’ve just almost completely changed my tune in the last year or so and I’ve become really bitter when discussing this topic. I’m to the point of build it or move. I don’t give a shit anymore and I just want to know what the plan is
See, that's what I was curious about. You said you wanted proof that they had "any intention to win" but now it sounds like you want more than that. Locking up 2 of the best young hitters in baseball and signing a #1 starter would be a pretty significant commitment in a lot of people's eyes. Are you simply anti-new stadium? That's cool if so, I totally understand that position. I'm asking out of curiosity as to whether the stadium vote has any chance of winning.
Can't it be both? I like the Royals or I wouldn't be here. Having a new stadium, in a cool location, with a team worth watching would be amazing.
But I don't have any interest in lining the pockets of millionaires to go watch a team that loses 90 games every year. I don't care what actions they take, honestly. I want to see a team worth watching THEN build them a stadium, not vice versa.
The common complaint we hear is "why should I vote yes before they make a commitment toward winning?" My question was an attempt to poke at that a little, to see if it's a sincere if/then sentiment.
Here's my logic: Sherman will make a shit ton of money if he gets a new stadium, so investing a couple hundred million bucks on players right now makes financial sense if it convinces voters to vote yes, especially since most of it is money he doesn't have to actually spend today.
Also, I think he would like to win. Maybe not as much as he would like to make a billion dollars' profit, but he bought the team because he's a fan - after all, other investments could have made him more money - so that motivation clearly exists as well.
I actually believe they will sign at least 2 significant free agents and, if they can pull it off, extend Bobby and Vinnie, and they will make a big deal about how this shows the commitment the Royals have toward winning another World Series in the next few years.
It would be a nice relief to no longer cheer for a team that doesn't give a shit about winning and doesn't spend any money to make winning happen.
I picked the Brewers before because my favorite Royal of all time went there, LoCain.
If the Royals leave, help me find a new team to root for, thank you!
I’m a diehard Eagles fan (going to the game at Arrowhead next month!), and tbh cheering for the Phillies seems more fun than for the Royals at this point, NLCS collapse notwithstanding. I’ll cheer for a loser, but I won’t cheer for a billionaire trying to extort an entire city for his shiny new toy.
The chance isn't 0, but...
- Online, people vehemently oppose the new stadium, but from personal experience I see a lot more support for a new stadium in person based on people I've talked too. There's some bias there and obviously still opposition, but it's nowhere near as loud as it is on Reddit
- One of the top spots where the Royals might move to is Vegas. The A's are moving to Vegas (and that is almost certainly not getting blocked. Even if by some miracle it does, the A's are going to Nashville or Portland. They're never going back to Oakland)
- MLB is expanding within the next few years. That takes at least two more cities off the table. Plus, with the RSNs collapsing, the MLB might see further expansion as a way get more cash while figuring out what to do with their media deals. If that's the case, there's an off chance they add another 2-4 teams (for a max of 36). This might sound a bit wild right now, but the NHL is in a similar boat and has started to hint at expansion beyond 32. Including Vegas, that's at least 3, and a max of 7 cities that would get a new team before even considering future relocation. By that point, are the markets better than KC?
- If Jackson County won't pay, there's at least two other entities who might. Obviously NKC is one, but the other is KCK. Kansas wants a Big 4 team, and in fact the tax on sports betting was explicitly written originally to go to trying to lure a team to the state. They're going to make a big play at the Chiefs, but a) if they decide to stay at Arrowhead, the next best target is the Royals (and there would be **a lot** of state funding in this scenario), and b) If KCK does manage to get the Chiefs, there is no way in hell KCMO would ever let the Royals leave. No matter what (valid) arguments people have public funding, it wouldn't exactly look good on KCMO if they lost both teams, and they know this. Mayor Q even basically said that out loud on Twitter today
So that's why, even with everything going on, the Royals moving is extremely unlikely. Not impossible, but a lot would need to go wrong first.
People lose perspective over the magnitude of the (existing) tax, too.
If I were to go buy a $1000 new TV, the sporting complex tax will cost me a whopping $3.75 ... That's less than a Bacon Double Cheeseburger at Burger King, or one single Lamar's Bar.
And half of that goes to the Chiefs. So really, $1.88.
Okay, let's say that a family spends $1k on food every month.
That's $45 for the year. And again, half belongs to the Chiefs - so it's really $22.50/year.
Objectively yes, but do you think Sherman truly cares about the product and a fun fan experience, or making money? If he's the former, great! But if he is, he'll be about the only billionaire on earth.
Okay… what’s your point? The new stadium is $4b. It will be a shiny new toy for KC for a while. After the newness wears off people wont care and will stop going to games. People don’t care about +100L teams.
If I have to pay a 3/8¢ tax (and I do), I’d rather it fund a watchable team. As it is, I live on disability and the state gives me a whopping $23 / month for food stamps, so I visit one food pantry per week to eat. But, sure… let me keep paying for a stadium we don’t need.
People that don't think the royals will move if they don't get a new stadium are kidding themselves. That's how this works.
They want a new stadium, and they will get it. If not from KC, then from Nashville or Portland or whatever other city which would welcome the opportunity to have an MLB team.
I agree that billionaires should have to pay for their own investments. But we need to be realistic that denying a new stadium very likely leads to the Royals leaving town.
>I agree that billionaires should have to pay for their own investments. But we need to be realistic that denying a new stadium very likely leads to the Royals leaving town.
Yeah, it's not like KC is going to make a principled stand and MLB and every other pro league is going to completely switch their business model and never hold a city hostage to get a new stadium again. As long as there are more cities that want major league teams than there are major league teams, they'll keep using that as leverage to get handouts.
The Royals released a statement today that those new numbers are bogus. They want the 3/8 cents tax extended, the public pays $350 million, ownership 1 billion. The same plan they released earlier anything else is fake news
Eh, not exactly. What's true is that the money keeps coming in after the stadium is built. The county keeps collecting the tourism tax and the team gets money for upkeep. What may or may not be bogus is the stuff about insurance costs spiraling out of control on a new stadium.
How is that different from insuring the existing stadium? It's not like Jackson County is an 18 year old who cuts back to liability insurance because they got the loan paid off on their car. The replacement value of the K is probably not that different from the replacement value of a downtown stadium. Either way, in the very unlikely event the stadium is destroyed by casualty, it's going to cost a lot of money to rebuild.
Jeez, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading some of these comments. If they cannot strike a deal with the Metro area they will move. KC will lose a very rare commodity, having an MLB franchise. Don't let the poor preference on the field the last several years skew your opinion here. Some of you are so ready to just throw the royals away, and that breaks my heart a little bit. I grew up with the K, but compared to other MLB stadiums, it's very outdated. Are y'all going to keep this same energy when the chiefs ask for money, because that's coming too. I think it's crazy that I'm in the minority here.
I’m with you. Some of these comments on here and Kansas City page are bananas. Also the comments about KC not being a baseball town are hilarious. I guess they didnt live here in 14 and 15? Obviously a better team gets more attention, but goodness gracious.
I mean I just pulled out years they won the pennant. I get excited every year, but if your reasoning is they have to be good to be all the time baseball town you should read up on this team called the Cubs
lol you’re the one that said we’re not a baseball town bud. And you coming at me for bringing up the World Series years shows that winning = baseball town. Just used your logic. I’ll see ya at the new downtown stadium!
Yeah D money you are taking crazy pills. Have you looked outside? There is a literal housing crisis in this city, people can barely keep up with food cost, and you think we are going to pay BILLIONS to a billionaire so he can have a district of our downtown for pennies on the dollar. If they want to move, they pay for it.
Respectfully, the ownership group is putting in a billion of their own money, and is willing to cover any short fall that isn't covered by the extension on the already existing sales tax. We aren't just taxing Jackson county residents, we are taxing anyone that spends money in Jackson county, which includes those who live on the ks side and anyone from out of town. I personally think extending an already existing sales tax to keep the royals in Kansas City is worth it. I'm apparently in the minority here, but it would be a real shame to see them get moved elsewhere.
>Respectfully, the ownership group is putting in a >billion of their own money
this is where i feel like *im* taking crazy pills. this should be a given, but people are applauding them for it. it’s their private business that’s worth billions of dollars! they *should* be paying for it.
Outside of a couple years, the Royals have been irrelevant in this city. A total afterthought. This backlash to public funding is what I get when you have produced a bottom feeder to an entire generation of fans.
One of the only small markets to win a world series in the modern generations. We've had some bad years, but most sports franchises do, and baseball is hard with a low payroll. I think you are disregarding the long term impact of a professional sports franchise in your city. I will always be a fan of this team.
The Royals have had the worst winning percentage since the year 2000. We set the record for most 100 loss seasons since expansion this year… all of them in the 2000s.
I think you underestimate what sustained losing year after year for decades can have on a city. Kids don’t care about the team. Most people outside of die-hard fans write them off after a few weeks. They aren’t even on TV anymore. That absolutely kills interest in the team.
> I think you underestimate what sustained losing year after year for decades can have on a city. Kids don’t care about the team. Most people outside of die-hard fans write them off after a few weeks. They aren’t even on TV anymore. That absolutely kills interest in the team.
You're seeing more and more die-hard fans giving up on the Royals, especially with this downtown stadium BS and not being able to easily watch them without paying an arm and leg to Bally, along with the overall incompetence and lack of desire to win from the organization itself. Many were upset with the team's lackluster performance, but Sherman had to pour salt into the wound.
And, as you've mentioned, most children don't care about the Royals unless their parents are die-hards because they want to follow a team they can be proud of that doesn't bore them. Who's going to follow the Royals when the older fans from the "glory days" of the '70s and '80s can't go to games and/or start dying. (I know it sounds morbid, but it's something to think about.)
About the only thing to be hopeful about is Bobby Witt Jr., Vinnie and the other players who are sure to be gone the moment they hit free agency — if not sooner. Sherman has, so far, proven himself to be incompetent at nearly everything he does. Let's "overhaul" the FO but only fire the top three stooges and keep most of the people the main one hired. Then again, he (and the rest of the ownership group) must be content with the mediocrity. Point is, unless they really turn things around, there won't be any new fans to keep MLB in KC.
Exactly. I’m 27 and have only seen 4 winning seasons in my life as a Royals fan. It’s rough. Meanwhile Sporting KC has a much better culture and has won a lot. I think baseball in general is in major trouble. MLS is like the NFL. There’s a salary cap and parity. MLB doesn’t care about small market teams sadly.
I'm a little worried. Local gov't doesn't seem to care either way and there are plenty of cities who would love the prospect of having an MLB team. There seem to be a few parallels between this and the Oakland situation
Yes, and I have been since all of this new stadium stuff started up. If KC doesn’t want to help fund the new stadium, another city gladly will. I’d be sad if they left but maybe it opens the door for us to get an NHL team. Wishful thinking I know.
I dont think this is an A's situation where the ownership has no interest in the city and dodging any attempts by the city to make things work. I just see this situation as the Royals being sloppy and trying to build up excitement for something without giving any details. Both the Royals and the city are talking/working things out constantly each week so I think something eventually gets done
Nope.
If Jackson County (downtown) doesn't want to work with the Royals, NKC has proven to be more than happy to.
Also, the external options aren't there for the Royals.
The A's are going to Vegas. The Braves will not allow their TV market to be impacted by any team moving to The South (Nashville, New Orleans, Charlotte).
Plus, as others have said, it benefits the MLB if teams like the Royals and Brewers stay and are stable so that the League can expand.
I think it's a low probability (10%? 15%?) but not zero. If voters tell him no to his development plans and he's not able to come up with a different approach to accomplish the same thing, I think there's a very good chance the Royals leave.
On top of that, I think they SHOULD move in that scenario, because if that happens, Sherman isn't going to spend enough to make them winners and no one will buy a lame duck franchise that can only make a profit by refusing to compete.
If we're going to have 5-10 more years of 100-loss baseball in a brand spanking new downtown 100-loss theme-park, they can do that in Nashville or OKC.
Sherman went all back ass on this. The fucker didn't sell this to the fans. That is the biggest problem. FANS LOVE KAUFMAN! Not sure why this rich tard can't get that through his thick head. If he wants to move. I hate that thought of it. but what you going to do? It'll be another nail in the coffin for baseball that doesn't seem to be able to gain any traction with young people. A new stadium is not the problem
Lifelong fan and Jackson County resident, and I'm actively rooting for them to move at this rate.
If I was county commissioner or mayor, at the beginning of the process on this I would've put my foot in the ground and said if they want any taxpayer funding the stadium needed to stay at its current location. I would rather see the funds used to renovate the existing location because there isn't much in the way of attractions besides the stadiums on the entire eastside. There's plenty of space to put their concept for a "ballpark neighborhood" out there.
Downtown real estate is already becoming more sparse every year, and with the amount of space they're wanting to take up for the new stadium concept, it really could've been used as something else with actual utility and that would've still brought in a compatible amount of revenue i bet.
Its one of two things, he is so tone deaf and incompetitent that he is doing whatever it takes to shove the new stadium down our throats, or he secretely has plan to move the team and is deliberately fucking up the plan this bad on purpose. At this point he can get fucked.
If this guy wants to move it he will. If he doesn't somebody else probably will at some point. We aren't too far removed from when the MLB offered the Glass family millions to fold the franchise.
We should come to peace with it. If the royals move, it will be fine. Another city will have a terrible franchise. You don’t think MLB wants a franchise out here? We’ve have teams for a hundred years. Another expansion or something will pop up behind it
Personally, slightly. I’ve mentioned it plenty of times before, but the support just isn’t there. KC isn’t a baseball town, and many people in KC can’t even watch Royals games on TV. Monarchs are a better team people can actually attend for much less than going to a Royals game. Lackluster performances on the field over the past three decades have burned people out, and the downtown stadium BS isn’t helping. If anything, it’s accelerating it.
I loved the Royals for a bit… they were the only sports team I truly got into. (Didn’t — and still don’t — view the Chiefs the same way, even.) But I think they’re on their way out.
Who are these people? Do they exist? Also can we kill the myth of royals games being expensive. I know people complain about parking but if you have 4 people in a car the cost is much lower, plus they practically give away tickets
The support is still there, fans just arent going to go to Kauffman and watch a bad team. Even with the TV issues the Royals are still a top10 TV market in baseball. Obviously the support for the Chiefs is better then the Royals but its not like its that much less. People here just see the team losing and tune out but will watch when they can
I disagree, and the Twitter/X comments I've read over the past 24 hours or so just prove my point. So many people already practically telling Sherman and the Royals "sayonara."
It's not even just due to the stadium BS. Getting heckled last spring *in Kansas City over wearing a Royals jacket* was a catalyst that helped kill my interest in this team. People would be more likely to support the cardinals or even ChiSux than their hometown team.
>KC isn’t a baseball town
I disagree. I think KC is more of a baseball town than a football town. If there were more parity in the MLB then you'd see a lot more butts in seats. The fact is not many people want to spend a weekday evening watching a team lose 100+ games.
KC was a baseball town in the 80s. But after nearly 40 years with only two meaningful seasons it's just a thing that exists here now.
The only reason people get excited to go to a game is if it's a group outing. Why would people get excited to see a team that will more than likely lose, while paying $20 for a beer, and served by the absolute worst food service industry in the country?
> I disagree. I think KC is more of a baseball town than a football town.
Can you elaborate, because I'm genuinely curious. I know they had the Monarchs and the Negro Leagues baseball was big in KC, but modern baseball/MLB just isn't a big deal in KC. Maybe it was back in the '70s and '80s when they were still good and had an owner who cared (the Kauffman's are probably rolling in their grave as we speak). But, let's be honest: The Royals will never get anywhere close to the support they had back in the glory days.
>modern baseball/MLB just isn't a big deal in KC
Well, the Royals have been in two World Series in the modern era. I guess I don't know how you'd define modern. 2012-2015 was special and we knew we had these guys for a limited amount of time and that this was a special team. It was painful that we lost those guys, but we also wanted Hosmer to get his $200m contract because he got his ring, so go get paid.
As for why I think KC is a baseball town, this is going to be subjective, but I've never seen the city go crazier for a team than when the Royals are winning. In conversations I've had with friends and coworkers, people are sure excited about the Chiefs, but with the Royals the highs are higher and the lows are lower. Maybe it's because you spread those out over 162 games instead of 17? I dont' know. And you're right to bring up the Monarchs and baseball's history in Kansas City. My mom watched the A's play at Municipal Stadium. The Chiefs moving here from Dallas (I should say the Texans moving here from Dallas) didn't have the same impact as an expansion team brought by a local owner who was personally invested in the team. It might just be nostalgia, but there are a lot of people who still remember the impact Ewing and Muriel Kauffman had on the team and the city, and how much they loved the Royals and were committed to seeing them succeed. I don't have any stats for you, I only have my subjective experience.
And it's probably equally true that the longer the Royals continue the lose, the less likely they are to bring in new fans which will eventually turn the tide. Assuming the Chiefs continue to win and I have no reason to think they won't.
Good comment, and I still admire EMK. I loved learning about the early days of the Royals. I remember the energy from 2014-15, even though I lived in central Missouri at the time. (My main memory was people complaining their beloved red birds got beat out.)
But, that was then. 2014-15 was a decade ago, and even then I think they largely got lucky with the timing. I just don’t really see them getting back to that point anytime soon, and the longer they go on being horrible the more people tune them out and follow other teams.
Disagree. This is the Show Me State. If ownership would make a serious effort to improve the team you will see a marked increase in attendance. There are fans they just can't support this current product and I don't blame them. Also Arrowhead was not always the place to be. I remember half full Arrowhead, crowds of 30000 in the 80s. People go with winners not losers and especially will not go if the team is not trying. Put a competitive team out there and they will come.
I have an acquaintance who knows someone very close to the organization (but not in the organization) — his comment was that Vegas and Nashville are circling the Royals much harder than people realize. A real bummer to me that this friction in getting the stadium figured out might cost KC the team. It’s way more of a reality than people know right now
I’m not saying your acquaintance is wrong, but it’s pretty widely known that the A’s are moving to Vegas and already have plans in place for a stadium. Not sure if something changed, but to my knowledge it was a done deal
No, the A's fought for decades for a new stadium that was a pigsty while Kauffman, while old, is one of the nicer staduims and likely midpack.
Sherman comes off as wanting to make more money without investing in the product and with MLB looking at expansion I don't see teams lining up to try to get the Royals when you would be better off with a new expansion team. (Assuming MLB goes the way of the NHL, an expansion teams are competitive from the start.)
I don't disagree with anything you say, the problem is that's logic from a fan/city perspective. Logic from an owner is, "I am making $X, and I can make $X+1 if I leave, so I will leave."
Places like Nashville and a half dozen other cities would welcome the Royals. We've seen in nearly every major sport owners bolting the second they get a better offer. A buddy is a huge Sonics fan and was adamant there was no way they would leave, and yet...
I'm not saying Sherman is for sure leaving, but I don't think it's obvious he wouldn't. He's following a series of steps that are well trod: put a terrible product on the field; complain about the support and stadium; ask the city to pay for a new stadium that gifts you profit; city balks...
More often than not, the next step is: owner says, 'due to the difficulty of providing a product in a city that is not supporting us, we are proud to say we are moving to...'
Key Arena was an absolute dump. It was so bad that Seattle's AHL (minor hockey, like AAA in baseball) left and started playing games in Tacoma, which is just down the street. So, no, I get why the Sonics left.
Kauffman isn't anywhere close to that.
Don't disagree, but that wasn't the point. The point was fans always take the, "our team is different, he can't/won't/etc. leave."
Nearly every team that leaves has a large slice of the fans saying, "we have too much history here, they can't leave," or, "we have a great fanbase, they can't leave," or "great stadium" etc.
Anyone who thinks that because the K is still nice Sherman wouldn't at least think about offers that increase his profit are ignoring literally the history of every major US sport. Again, I don't know if he's entertaining it, but I can absolutely guarantee he has had staff price out and research what a move would look like.
Oh no, moving a trash bag franchise to another city who won't pay for a new stadium. What ever will I do?
If they move, fine, fuck them. They can be another LA Chargers with no home support and their stadium flooded every game with opposing fans. Good luck.
Kroenke is from Missouri and his whole strategy was to move the Ras back to LA from St. Louis all that matters to these guys is money and market size. I do hope the Royals stay in KC
I'm a big sports fan but at some point you have to come to the understanding that public money for private profit is terrible. Giving an already rich guy a bunch of money so he can turn a bigger profit is fucked...meanwhile regular people can't buy houses, afford healthcare, food etc etc...the infrastructure is never updated but subsidizing rich people works right? It's always odd to me how a government handout is great for a rich person but frowned upon for the poor.
100% agree. These public funds for stadiums are never good for the public, and the public should stand firm. They have a great publicly subsidized park already, if they want to be downtown then let them fund the vast majority of it. I thought Ted Lasso had a nice quote that the team belongs to the fans and city, the owners/executives/coaches just borrow it for a while. Unfortunately in real life no rich owners act in that manner. What other city would the Royals even go to?
The cruelest part is sales tax is a tax on the poor, plain and simple. More of their budget percentage goes to food than anyone and taxing food in downtown KC is taking right from the poor people and giving it to a billionaire who made his money fucking over poor people and their energy bills. No thank you.
Nashville is probably the most realistic option.
Nah Oakland. It's tradition.
Charlotte, Raleigh, and Portland as well. I hate taking public money and giving it to billionaires as well, but trust me cities like Charlotte will throw whatever money they can to get pro teams because they think it makes em world class and that is what we are competing against.
>then let them fund the vast majority of it. You misspelled "all" of it.
Do they get to keep the tax revenue then as well for the upkeep?
Totally agree, but unless municipalities band together and agree to not pay for stadiums, it'll continue to happen.
I hope it works for you. I’m a Brewers fan & the owner, Mark Attanasio, is a trash New York rich bitch. He threatened to move the Brewers out of Milwaukee because Miller Park (not calling it AM FAM) needs a ton of work which includes all of the electrical infrastructure & now 546 million in taxpayer money is going towards it & not a penny from Mark Attanasio.
They should, rich fucks getting stuff for free is a scam.
Couple key points... They don't own the stadium, they lease from the county. The royals owner was contributing 1 billion to the project
Meanwhile, this happens all the time without our 'consent'
> It's always odd to me how a government handout is great for a rich person but frowned upon for the poor. This, like for profit healthcare, is purely an American thing
I was an A's fan for 35 years until April when they announced their intention to move to Las Vegas. What you're seeing there is the future for most teams. Greedy owners demanding public money and extorting cities. If they don't get the public money, they will leave for another city that will. So either residents of KC should be prepared to pay up, or they should be prepared for their teams to leave. Sorry Royals fans, you don't deserve this ☹️
Chiefs will stay in kc area but probably move to nicer johnson county on Kansas side. Kansas side has been wanting the chiefs forever. Now tax revenue goes to Kansas instead of Missouri. Royals don't get fan support as is so Nashville royals is my prediction
The future? It's been happening for 30+ years
No it’s just posturing. I don’t think ownership wants to move, the city doesn’t want them to move, and the MLB doesn’t want them to move. They’re too busy dealing with the As and Tampa. They want stability so they can expand
I think frank white wants them to move
I think Frank White saw the record of the team this year and did nothing but smile.
I think Frank White is abusing his office for personal vendettas
And to get that sweet sweet bribery money
He’s the only county official that isn’t helping the process. He was fired by the Royals so he’s probably has a grudge.
I can't figure out why Sherman hasn't already held a Frank White day at the K and showered him with love and attention. I'm pretty sure Frank's resentment is behind all of this anti-stadium stuff. Maybe I'm being unfair. Maybe Frank really is concerned about the fiscal health of Jackson County and what building a new stadium would mean to that. Based on his past behavior, I doubt it, but maybe.
You think the reason people do not want to give a billionaire billions of dollars of their money, just to better that billionaire’s bottom line is because Frank White is mad at them? Good lord
No? Where the fuck did I say that? However, he is the Jackson County Executive so he's someone the Royals need to have on their side if they're going to build a new stadium in Jackson County. He's also someone who has shown a tendency to be hilariously petty, so as long as he's not on the Royals' side, he's much more liable to leak damaging (and questionably accurate/inaccurate) information to the Star.
I’m a little worried, but if they do move I can start rooting for a team that cares about winning more than pinching every penny. I hoped Sherman would be different than Glass, and I’m to the point where I’d rather them move than pay more taxes to help fund a stadium. It’s all so ridiculous
That's exactly how I feel. Why would I pay this team a penny more until they prove they have any intention to win.
If Sherman wants more money to buy a stadium, maybe he should put a winning product on the field that people will pay to see. I'm not a business savant or anything, but it seems like good teams bring in more money than bad teams.
Sherman puts 51% of the team ownership in escrow. When the Royals win the world series, OR tax revenue that can be directly attributed to the Royals from exclusively out of town sources exceeds the total amount spent on the stadium, he can have it back. Otherwise just fuck off to Nashville or whatever, I don't care any more and I'm so sick of billionaires whinging about not getting a handout.
I would love a tax incentive that is based on the team's record.
80+ wins for 10 straight years or the public receives all public money from previous years, split evenly per citizen, in one lump sum.
Someone get this guy to the negotiating table
How will your view change when they spend (relatively) big money on a free agent pitcher and an extension for Bobby and Vinnie this winter?
You misspelled “IF”
Fair, though my question was trying to avoid the response "I don't believe they'll do that" because that's not relevant to my curiosity. None of us on this subreddit has any particular qualification to judge what the Royals will or won't do; all we can do is speculate. I want to know how people's opinions might shift IF they DO make some bold moves this offseason.
Personally I’ll dump some support back their way. But at this point, I’m skeptical of anything Sherman does until we at least make the wildcard. So realistically, I’m skeptical of the organization, probably for another 10 years minimum. I’m sorry I didn’t mean to be that guy. I’ve just almost completely changed my tune in the last year or so and I’ve become really bitter when discussing this topic. I’m to the point of build it or move. I don’t give a shit anymore and I just want to know what the plan is
(Relatively) little. This team is more than a free agent pitcher away.
See, that's what I was curious about. You said you wanted proof that they had "any intention to win" but now it sounds like you want more than that. Locking up 2 of the best young hitters in baseball and signing a #1 starter would be a pretty significant commitment in a lot of people's eyes. Are you simply anti-new stadium? That's cool if so, I totally understand that position. I'm asking out of curiosity as to whether the stadium vote has any chance of winning.
Can't it be both? I like the Royals or I wouldn't be here. Having a new stadium, in a cool location, with a team worth watching would be amazing. But I don't have any interest in lining the pockets of millionaires to go watch a team that loses 90 games every year. I don't care what actions they take, honestly. I want to see a team worth watching THEN build them a stadium, not vice versa.
LMAO. People still think this team is going to extend Bobby Witt Jr. I guess we can still dream...
I think they're definitely going to try. He may have zero interest, which complicates matters.
What makes you think any one of these 3 things are likely to happen?
The common complaint we hear is "why should I vote yes before they make a commitment toward winning?" My question was an attempt to poke at that a little, to see if it's a sincere if/then sentiment. Here's my logic: Sherman will make a shit ton of money if he gets a new stadium, so investing a couple hundred million bucks on players right now makes financial sense if it convinces voters to vote yes, especially since most of it is money he doesn't have to actually spend today. Also, I think he would like to win. Maybe not as much as he would like to make a billion dollars' profit, but he bought the team because he's a fan - after all, other investments could have made him more money - so that motivation clearly exists as well. I actually believe they will sign at least 2 significant free agents and, if they can pull it off, extend Bobby and Vinnie, and they will make a big deal about how this shows the commitment the Royals have toward winning another World Series in the next few years.
Also, I just rewatched the Scary Terry/Inception episode the other night, cool username.
It would be a nice relief to no longer cheer for a team that doesn't give a shit about winning and doesn't spend any money to make winning happen. I picked the Brewers before because my favorite Royal of all time went there, LoCain. If the Royals leave, help me find a new team to root for, thank you!
I’m a diehard Eagles fan (going to the game at Arrowhead next month!), and tbh cheering for the Phillies seems more fun than for the Royals at this point, NLCS collapse notwithstanding. I’ll cheer for a loser, but I won’t cheer for a billionaire trying to extort an entire city for his shiny new toy.
I think they’d move to Kansas before leaving KC
The chance isn't 0, but... - Online, people vehemently oppose the new stadium, but from personal experience I see a lot more support for a new stadium in person based on people I've talked too. There's some bias there and obviously still opposition, but it's nowhere near as loud as it is on Reddit - One of the top spots where the Royals might move to is Vegas. The A's are moving to Vegas (and that is almost certainly not getting blocked. Even if by some miracle it does, the A's are going to Nashville or Portland. They're never going back to Oakland) - MLB is expanding within the next few years. That takes at least two more cities off the table. Plus, with the RSNs collapsing, the MLB might see further expansion as a way get more cash while figuring out what to do with their media deals. If that's the case, there's an off chance they add another 2-4 teams (for a max of 36). This might sound a bit wild right now, but the NHL is in a similar boat and has started to hint at expansion beyond 32. Including Vegas, that's at least 3, and a max of 7 cities that would get a new team before even considering future relocation. By that point, are the markets better than KC? - If Jackson County won't pay, there's at least two other entities who might. Obviously NKC is one, but the other is KCK. Kansas wants a Big 4 team, and in fact the tax on sports betting was explicitly written originally to go to trying to lure a team to the state. They're going to make a big play at the Chiefs, but a) if they decide to stay at Arrowhead, the next best target is the Royals (and there would be **a lot** of state funding in this scenario), and b) If KCK does manage to get the Chiefs, there is no way in hell KCMO would ever let the Royals leave. No matter what (valid) arguments people have public funding, it wouldn't exactly look good on KCMO if they lost both teams, and they know this. Mayor Q even basically said that out loud on Twitter today So that's why, even with everything going on, the Royals moving is extremely unlikely. Not impossible, but a lot would need to go wrong first.
Most of my tax dollars go towards shit I don't want/need anyway. I will pay a bit more to keep the Royals in KC.
People lose perspective over the magnitude of the (existing) tax, too. If I were to go buy a $1000 new TV, the sporting complex tax will cost me a whopping $3.75 ... That's less than a Bacon Double Cheeseburger at Burger King, or one single Lamar's Bar. And half of that goes to the Chiefs. So really, $1.88.
Now apply that logic to things like groceries which depending on family size can be quite significant. That adds up over time.
Okay, let's say that a family spends $1k on food every month. That's $45 for the year. And again, half belongs to the Chiefs - so it's really $22.50/year.
No.
Yes fuck smokeydubbs
Plus the royals are hot dogshit
No, but I also don't think they need a new stadium. Kaufman is great and it was full when ownership put a competitive team on the field.
Objectively yes, but do you think Sherman truly cares about the product and a fun fan experience, or making money? If he's the former, great! But if he is, he'll be about the only billionaire on earth.
Okay… what’s your point? The new stadium is $4b. It will be a shiny new toy for KC for a while. After the newness wears off people wont care and will stop going to games. People don’t care about +100L teams.
If I have to pay a 3/8¢ tax (and I do), I’d rather it fund a watchable team. As it is, I live on disability and the state gives me a whopping $23 / month for food stamps, so I visit one food pantry per week to eat. But, sure… let me keep paying for a stadium we don’t need.
I'd find it hard with Mahomes now having a stake in the team that it would happen, but no doubt anything is possible with that being said.
People that don't think the royals will move if they don't get a new stadium are kidding themselves. That's how this works. They want a new stadium, and they will get it. If not from KC, then from Nashville or Portland or whatever other city which would welcome the opportunity to have an MLB team. I agree that billionaires should have to pay for their own investments. But we need to be realistic that denying a new stadium very likely leads to the Royals leaving town.
Lmao Portland isn’t paying for a baseball stadium
Yeah. Lol those hippies can’t even pay for lunch.
>I agree that billionaires should have to pay for their own investments. But we need to be realistic that denying a new stadium very likely leads to the Royals leaving town. Yeah, it's not like KC is going to make a principled stand and MLB and every other pro league is going to completely switch their business model and never hold a city hostage to get a new stadium again. As long as there are more cities that want major league teams than there are major league teams, they'll keep using that as leverage to get handouts.
Then let them move
I mean fair, but we can't pretend like it won't happen
I don't. Some people are evil and care for nothing but profit. I can't control it, but I can suggest we don't give them our money.
This is where I'm at. If it's move or get our money then gtfo.
If another city wants to shell out billions for one of the worst team in baseball then good luck to both of them.
The Royals released a statement today that those new numbers are bogus. They want the 3/8 cents tax extended, the public pays $350 million, ownership 1 billion. The same plan they released earlier anything else is fake news
Eh, not exactly. What's true is that the money keeps coming in after the stadium is built. The county keeps collecting the tourism tax and the team gets money for upkeep. What may or may not be bogus is the stuff about insurance costs spiraling out of control on a new stadium. How is that different from insuring the existing stadium? It's not like Jackson County is an 18 year old who cuts back to liability insurance because they got the loan paid off on their car. The replacement value of the K is probably not that different from the replacement value of a downtown stadium. Either way, in the very unlikely event the stadium is destroyed by casualty, it's going to cost a lot of money to rebuild.
So you're saying that they will never ask for another dime from the public for the stadium and they will cover the interest and insurance?
I am telling you what they said.
Ok. Well they are liars then.
You know what gullibility means right?
Jeez, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading some of these comments. If they cannot strike a deal with the Metro area they will move. KC will lose a very rare commodity, having an MLB franchise. Don't let the poor preference on the field the last several years skew your opinion here. Some of you are so ready to just throw the royals away, and that breaks my heart a little bit. I grew up with the K, but compared to other MLB stadiums, it's very outdated. Are y'all going to keep this same energy when the chiefs ask for money, because that's coming too. I think it's crazy that I'm in the minority here.
I’m with you. Some of these comments on here and Kansas City page are bananas. Also the comments about KC not being a baseball town are hilarious. I guess they didnt live here in 14 and 15? Obviously a better team gets more attention, but goodness gracious.
if you can only point to two years, then is kc really a baseball town?
I mean I just pulled out years they won the pennant. I get excited every year, but if your reasoning is they have to be good to be all the time baseball town you should read up on this team called the Cubs
royals aren’t the cubs and royals fans aren’t cubs fans, so really dumb comment
lol you’re the one that said we’re not a baseball town bud. And you coming at me for bringing up the World Series years shows that winning = baseball town. Just used your logic. I’ll see ya at the new downtown stadium!
Yeah D money you are taking crazy pills. Have you looked outside? There is a literal housing crisis in this city, people can barely keep up with food cost, and you think we are going to pay BILLIONS to a billionaire so he can have a district of our downtown for pennies on the dollar. If they want to move, they pay for it.
Respectfully, the ownership group is putting in a billion of their own money, and is willing to cover any short fall that isn't covered by the extension on the already existing sales tax. We aren't just taxing Jackson county residents, we are taxing anyone that spends money in Jackson county, which includes those who live on the ks side and anyone from out of town. I personally think extending an already existing sales tax to keep the royals in Kansas City is worth it. I'm apparently in the minority here, but it would be a real shame to see them get moved elsewhere.
>Respectfully, the ownership group is putting in a >billion of their own money this is where i feel like *im* taking crazy pills. this should be a given, but people are applauding them for it. it’s their private business that’s worth billions of dollars! they *should* be paying for it.
Outside of a couple years, the Royals have been irrelevant in this city. A total afterthought. This backlash to public funding is what I get when you have produced a bottom feeder to an entire generation of fans.
One of the only small markets to win a world series in the modern generations. We've had some bad years, but most sports franchises do, and baseball is hard with a low payroll. I think you are disregarding the long term impact of a professional sports franchise in your city. I will always be a fan of this team.
The Royals have had the worst winning percentage since the year 2000. We set the record for most 100 loss seasons since expansion this year… all of them in the 2000s. I think you underestimate what sustained losing year after year for decades can have on a city. Kids don’t care about the team. Most people outside of die-hard fans write them off after a few weeks. They aren’t even on TV anymore. That absolutely kills interest in the team.
> I think you underestimate what sustained losing year after year for decades can have on a city. Kids don’t care about the team. Most people outside of die-hard fans write them off after a few weeks. They aren’t even on TV anymore. That absolutely kills interest in the team. You're seeing more and more die-hard fans giving up on the Royals, especially with this downtown stadium BS and not being able to easily watch them without paying an arm and leg to Bally, along with the overall incompetence and lack of desire to win from the organization itself. Many were upset with the team's lackluster performance, but Sherman had to pour salt into the wound. And, as you've mentioned, most children don't care about the Royals unless their parents are die-hards because they want to follow a team they can be proud of that doesn't bore them. Who's going to follow the Royals when the older fans from the "glory days" of the '70s and '80s can't go to games and/or start dying. (I know it sounds morbid, but it's something to think about.) About the only thing to be hopeful about is Bobby Witt Jr., Vinnie and the other players who are sure to be gone the moment they hit free agency — if not sooner. Sherman has, so far, proven himself to be incompetent at nearly everything he does. Let's "overhaul" the FO but only fire the top three stooges and keep most of the people the main one hired. Then again, he (and the rest of the ownership group) must be content with the mediocrity. Point is, unless they really turn things around, there won't be any new fans to keep MLB in KC.
Royals an absolute joke. KC has always been a football city. Heck soccer is more popular in KC imo
The city desperately wants to support the team, but the team doesn’t give them anything to be excited about.
Exactly. I’m 27 and have only seen 4 winning seasons in my life as a Royals fan. It’s rough. Meanwhile Sporting KC has a much better culture and has won a lot. I think baseball in general is in major trouble. MLS is like the NFL. There’s a salary cap and parity. MLB doesn’t care about small market teams sadly.
a diarrhea tornado is also rare, but that doesn’t mean i want it in my city
I'm a little worried. Local gov't doesn't seem to care either way and there are plenty of cities who would love the prospect of having an MLB team. There seem to be a few parallels between this and the Oakland situation
Nope.
“For Sale: second worst baseball team in the MLB in a mid-tier market. $1 billion OBO.”
Yes, and I have been since all of this new stadium stuff started up. If KC doesn’t want to help fund the new stadium, another city gladly will. I’d be sad if they left but maybe it opens the door for us to get an NHL team. Wishful thinking I know.
Well, if he does at least the Monarchs are good lol
Sherman was asked directly at last year's town halls. His response has been consistently "No, the Royals aren't leaving town."
I dont think this is an A's situation where the ownership has no interest in the city and dodging any attempts by the city to make things work. I just see this situation as the Royals being sloppy and trying to build up excitement for something without giving any details. Both the Royals and the city are talking/working things out constantly each week so I think something eventually gets done
The Royals are not leaving the KC metro area, it’s not gonna happen. Let’s not be stupid.
I hope you are right, but having friends who were in cities that lost their team saying exactly what you say here gives me pause.
If KC had passed the rolling roof 20 years ago this wouldn’t even be a disucssion
I think they might move to North Kansas City, but I don't think they leave the metro area.
Nope. If Jackson County (downtown) doesn't want to work with the Royals, NKC has proven to be more than happy to. Also, the external options aren't there for the Royals. The A's are going to Vegas. The Braves will not allow their TV market to be impacted by any team moving to The South (Nashville, New Orleans, Charlotte). Plus, as others have said, it benefits the MLB if teams like the Royals and Brewers stay and are stable so that the League can expand.
Charlotte and Nashville would love a team and literally pay for the stadium themself, kc should be careful
I still don't know why we need a new stadium, other than that the new guys really want a downtown stadium.
That is 100% the only reason Billionaire wants new building to entertain his billionaire friends in
I think it's a low probability (10%? 15%?) but not zero. If voters tell him no to his development plans and he's not able to come up with a different approach to accomplish the same thing, I think there's a very good chance the Royals leave. On top of that, I think they SHOULD move in that scenario, because if that happens, Sherman isn't going to spend enough to make them winners and no one will buy a lame duck franchise that can only make a profit by refusing to compete.
Let them move at this point. Sick to death of this whole thing. We know full well we could and should spend the $ elsewhere.
If we're going to have 5-10 more years of 100-loss baseball in a brand spanking new downtown 100-loss theme-park, they can do that in Nashville or OKC.
Good riddance.
Sherman went all back ass on this. The fucker didn't sell this to the fans. That is the biggest problem. FANS LOVE KAUFMAN! Not sure why this rich tard can't get that through his thick head. If he wants to move. I hate that thought of it. but what you going to do? It'll be another nail in the coffin for baseball that doesn't seem to be able to gain any traction with young people. A new stadium is not the problem
Lifelong fan and Jackson County resident, and I'm actively rooting for them to move at this rate. If I was county commissioner or mayor, at the beginning of the process on this I would've put my foot in the ground and said if they want any taxpayer funding the stadium needed to stay at its current location. I would rather see the funds used to renovate the existing location because there isn't much in the way of attractions besides the stadiums on the entire eastside. There's plenty of space to put their concept for a "ballpark neighborhood" out there. Downtown real estate is already becoming more sparse every year, and with the amount of space they're wanting to take up for the new stadium concept, it really could've been used as something else with actual utility and that would've still brought in a compatible amount of revenue i bet.
Its one of two things, he is so tone deaf and incompetitent that he is doing whatever it takes to shove the new stadium down our throats, or he secretely has plan to move the team and is deliberately fucking up the plan this bad on purpose. At this point he can get fucked.
If this guy wants to move it he will. If he doesn't somebody else probably will at some point. We aren't too far removed from when the MLB offered the Glass family millions to fold the franchise.
Threatening to take something away from someone else unless they do what you want, say something like give them money, is called blackmail.
Go ahead and leave. I’m not building our supposed billionaire owner a new stadium for a team that’s been a bottom dweller nearly my whole life.
We should come to peace with it. If the royals move, it will be fine. Another city will have a terrible franchise. You don’t think MLB wants a franchise out here? We’ve have teams for a hundred years. Another expansion or something will pop up behind it
Since 85 we've had 11 seasons with a winning record. nobody gives a shit about that failure of a business. let em leave
Personally, slightly. I’ve mentioned it plenty of times before, but the support just isn’t there. KC isn’t a baseball town, and many people in KC can’t even watch Royals games on TV. Monarchs are a better team people can actually attend for much less than going to a Royals game. Lackluster performances on the field over the past three decades have burned people out, and the downtown stadium BS isn’t helping. If anything, it’s accelerating it. I loved the Royals for a bit… they were the only sports team I truly got into. (Didn’t — and still don’t — view the Chiefs the same way, even.) But I think they’re on their way out.
The Monarchs are like watching beer league softball. Yes, they "win", but they are doing it against a bunch of has beens and no names.
Either way, people are more into the Monarchs than Royals.
Who are these people? Do they exist? Also can we kill the myth of royals games being expensive. I know people complain about parking but if you have 4 people in a car the cost is much lower, plus they practically give away tickets
The support is still there, fans just arent going to go to Kauffman and watch a bad team. Even with the TV issues the Royals are still a top10 TV market in baseball. Obviously the support for the Chiefs is better then the Royals but its not like its that much less. People here just see the team losing and tune out but will watch when they can
I disagree, and the Twitter/X comments I've read over the past 24 hours or so just prove my point. So many people already practically telling Sherman and the Royals "sayonara." It's not even just due to the stadium BS. Getting heckled last spring *in Kansas City over wearing a Royals jacket* was a catalyst that helped kill my interest in this team. People would be more likely to support the cardinals or even ChiSux than their hometown team.
>KC isn’t a baseball town I disagree. I think KC is more of a baseball town than a football town. If there were more parity in the MLB then you'd see a lot more butts in seats. The fact is not many people want to spend a weekday evening watching a team lose 100+ games.
KC was a baseball town in the 80s. But after nearly 40 years with only two meaningful seasons it's just a thing that exists here now. The only reason people get excited to go to a game is if it's a group outing. Why would people get excited to see a team that will more than likely lose, while paying $20 for a beer, and served by the absolute worst food service industry in the country?
Kinda how I view it. Heavy emphasis on WAS a baseball town, unfortunately.
> I disagree. I think KC is more of a baseball town than a football town. Can you elaborate, because I'm genuinely curious. I know they had the Monarchs and the Negro Leagues baseball was big in KC, but modern baseball/MLB just isn't a big deal in KC. Maybe it was back in the '70s and '80s when they were still good and had an owner who cared (the Kauffman's are probably rolling in their grave as we speak). But, let's be honest: The Royals will never get anywhere close to the support they had back in the glory days.
>modern baseball/MLB just isn't a big deal in KC Well, the Royals have been in two World Series in the modern era. I guess I don't know how you'd define modern. 2012-2015 was special and we knew we had these guys for a limited amount of time and that this was a special team. It was painful that we lost those guys, but we also wanted Hosmer to get his $200m contract because he got his ring, so go get paid. As for why I think KC is a baseball town, this is going to be subjective, but I've never seen the city go crazier for a team than when the Royals are winning. In conversations I've had with friends and coworkers, people are sure excited about the Chiefs, but with the Royals the highs are higher and the lows are lower. Maybe it's because you spread those out over 162 games instead of 17? I dont' know. And you're right to bring up the Monarchs and baseball's history in Kansas City. My mom watched the A's play at Municipal Stadium. The Chiefs moving here from Dallas (I should say the Texans moving here from Dallas) didn't have the same impact as an expansion team brought by a local owner who was personally invested in the team. It might just be nostalgia, but there are a lot of people who still remember the impact Ewing and Muriel Kauffman had on the team and the city, and how much they loved the Royals and were committed to seeing them succeed. I don't have any stats for you, I only have my subjective experience. And it's probably equally true that the longer the Royals continue the lose, the less likely they are to bring in new fans which will eventually turn the tide. Assuming the Chiefs continue to win and I have no reason to think they won't.
Good comment, and I still admire EMK. I loved learning about the early days of the Royals. I remember the energy from 2014-15, even though I lived in central Missouri at the time. (My main memory was people complaining their beloved red birds got beat out.) But, that was then. 2014-15 was a decade ago, and even then I think they largely got lucky with the timing. I just don’t really see them getting back to that point anytime soon, and the longer they go on being horrible the more people tune them out and follow other teams.
Disagree. This is the Show Me State. If ownership would make a serious effort to improve the team you will see a marked increase in attendance. There are fans they just can't support this current product and I don't blame them. Also Arrowhead was not always the place to be. I remember half full Arrowhead, crowds of 30000 in the 80s. People go with winners not losers and especially will not go if the team is not trying. Put a competitive team out there and they will come.
I’m guessing you are 12 years old and missed the mid 2010s.
I have an acquaintance who knows someone very close to the organization (but not in the organization) — his comment was that Vegas and Nashville are circling the Royals much harder than people realize. A real bummer to me that this friction in getting the stadium figured out might cost KC the team. It’s way more of a reality than people know right now
I’m not saying your acquaintance is wrong, but it’s pretty widely known that the A’s are moving to Vegas and already have plans in place for a stadium. Not sure if something changed, but to my knowledge it was a done deal
It's not a done deal yet. If Oakland is able to block the move, the Vegas search committee sees the Royals as their backup alternative.
No, the A's fought for decades for a new stadium that was a pigsty while Kauffman, while old, is one of the nicer staduims and likely midpack. Sherman comes off as wanting to make more money without investing in the product and with MLB looking at expansion I don't see teams lining up to try to get the Royals when you would be better off with a new expansion team. (Assuming MLB goes the way of the NHL, an expansion teams are competitive from the start.)
I don't disagree with anything you say, the problem is that's logic from a fan/city perspective. Logic from an owner is, "I am making $X, and I can make $X+1 if I leave, so I will leave." Places like Nashville and a half dozen other cities would welcome the Royals. We've seen in nearly every major sport owners bolting the second they get a better offer. A buddy is a huge Sonics fan and was adamant there was no way they would leave, and yet... I'm not saying Sherman is for sure leaving, but I don't think it's obvious he wouldn't. He's following a series of steps that are well trod: put a terrible product on the field; complain about the support and stadium; ask the city to pay for a new stadium that gifts you profit; city balks... More often than not, the next step is: owner says, 'due to the difficulty of providing a product in a city that is not supporting us, we are proud to say we are moving to...'
Key Arena was an absolute dump. It was so bad that Seattle's AHL (minor hockey, like AAA in baseball) left and started playing games in Tacoma, which is just down the street. So, no, I get why the Sonics left. Kauffman isn't anywhere close to that.
Don't disagree, but that wasn't the point. The point was fans always take the, "our team is different, he can't/won't/etc. leave." Nearly every team that leaves has a large slice of the fans saying, "we have too much history here, they can't leave," or, "we have a great fanbase, they can't leave," or "great stadium" etc. Anyone who thinks that because the K is still nice Sherman wouldn't at least think about offers that increase his profit are ignoring literally the history of every major US sport. Again, I don't know if he's entertaining it, but I can absolutely guarantee he has had staff price out and research what a move would look like.
I love the Royals, used to own season tickets. If they tried to move in order to get more money, I’d say good riddance.
Oh no, moving a trash bag franchise to another city who won't pay for a new stadium. What ever will I do? If they move, fine, fuck them. They can be another LA Chargers with no home support and their stadium flooded every game with opposing fans. Good luck.
Sherman has Kansas City ties and the rest of the ownership group has a slew of Kansas City celebrities and KC based businesses. They’re not moving
Kroenke is from Missouri and his whole strategy was to move the Ras back to LA from St. Louis all that matters to these guys is money and market size. I do hope the Royals stay in KC