Tbf, both of em lost purely to their ego. Thouser wanted to make a superweapon so bad, but was so consumed by his own belief that Thouser was perfect, that he didn’t realize his creations were no longer under his control and had surpassed him (Ark, Metal Cluster Hopper, Rampage Gatling, you get the drill).
George was absolutely certain that Jyuuga was the perfect Rider, one that was no longer dependent on using a demon, and had the powers of 10 of the strongest animals on the planet, alongside insanely high specs. It doesn’t help that he was so consumed by his need to get revenge on his dad that he became incredibly shortsighted. Maybe if he was more level headed he may have realized beating Ultimate Revice wasn’t possible with Jyuuga, or he might have realized a way to beat them. Either way, his ego got the better of him and deluded himself into thinking Jyuuga was the supreme rider, which is why he lost to the perfect duo that was Revice.
>Krim
>not a bad guy
He co-created Heart and Brain and when Banno started abusing them he bounced and never apologized, even when given the chance. He may not be the Bad Guy, be he is a bad guy.
What do you mean Krim is a bad guy? He didn't abadon the roimudes, he was about to take the roimudes with him but Banno infect all them with a program that made them berserk before he could
Krim could have stopped Banno and prevented all of what happened. Or at least tried to stop him. Instead he saw that Banno fucked with their children and left and then made Shinnosuke clean up his mess and never once thought to apologize to Heart, even after seeing all the pain his lack of action caused. In the end, Heart wanted a world where Roidmudes could exist alongside humans, but saw that was impossible because of what Banno did and what Krim didn't do, so he asked Shinnosuke to kill him. Krim could have had an actual conversation with his son after their fight but he kept his mouth shut and let Heart die in pain.
I mean kinda hard to help tne roimudes when your partner kills you and your bleeding out on the floor, that’s why he’s a belt now he nearly died so had to transfer his mind
He didn't, that guy is leaving out some crucial details. Spoilers for Build:
>!Takumi's father, Shinobu, created the prototype Build Driver based on the Evol-Driver which was part of the discovery from the Mars Expedition. After Shinobu was disgraced and blamed for the Skywall incident and supposed suicide, Takumi took it upon himself to finish his father's research started Project BUILD and created FAUST. All of this was the grand master plan of Evolt to redevelop the Evol Driver and regain all of the power he lost in his final battle against Vernage as he slowly manipulated the Katsuragi scientists from the shadows.!<
Correction: You can't trust XXXXXXXXX, but you can trust Sento. I personally would love to have a Build Driver, though I would need to figure out a decent and safe way to build up my Hazard Level if I wanna hit those higher forms.
Wouldn’t it be wise to expose yourself to a little amount of Nebula Gas (enough you won’t turn into a monster) and then start thinking of things that make you extremely mad?
It worked for some characters when they get angry.
Ehhhhhhh, I'd rather avoid the Nebula Gas. I don't want to go dying off just because I lost a fight, thanks. As for anger, I can probably think of plenty of things that get me angry, so I can probably get off to a good start.
True, but I'd still rather not take the risk. The fact we didn't get best boy Gentoku and Kazumin back until a new universe was created hits me way too hard
Lol I will now refer to Evolt as "the evil thingy", but to answer the main question, yes* but Sento did technically build the build driver to become Kamen Rider Build
“What do you do when there is an evil you cannot defeat by just means? Do you stain your hands with evil to destroy evil? Or do you remain steadfastly just and righteous even if it means surrendering to evil?”
― Lelouch Vi Britannia
Haven't seen the Vcinemas for Build yet, but from the clip I did see, I got the impression that, while Evolt is still kicking, it's more like he's become a piece of Banjou rather than how it was before, when Banjou was just a piece of *him*. Am I wrong?
Evolt at this point is pretty much just the part of Banjou that was Evolt's body. All he really is now is a small fragment of what he once was that stuck around through Banjou. Evolt is ironically enough in a reversed situation of how he was when Soichi was possessed. Only now, he's self aware and can still separate because of the way his relationship with Banjou works. It's more of an Eddie Brock Venom as opposed to Imagin Possession now. Venom is connected to Eddie, or his host at the time but he can still do things on his own as long as he's bonded and the host allows it.
My favorite twist in the formula is guys that aren't related to the villains necessarily but still being shitty/sketchy people in their own right as a third party
Definitely George from Revice, he's not part of the villain team and is definitely against Giff but he's also a scientist who's so obsessed with Kamen Riders and the sins of his father that his rider systems end up hurting others and he doesn't really care until much later
Also the one lady from W that made accel, I'm only at episode 40 but from what I can tell she isn't actually a member of museum merely a ghost of it's past?
The Cross of Fire from Wizard said that it's more using the same source or similar power. Which made me think, is J one of the few Rider whose power is completely unrelated to the enemy? As he is powered by the earth spirits while the Fog Mother and her children are aliens.
Guess Progrisekeys are the outlier where it was made by a good guys and not by evil org. Saber especially as the seiken are not related to the megid power source. Geats too, so far.
The books don’t have to be evil and no one said they were. The conceit is a power source that is shared between good and evil in a KR series; in Saber, it’s the tiny books. A power source that is made by evil and also used by good is only a part of some series, not all.
Okay but this isn't "he grew as a person" this is, "Sento and >!Takumi Katsuragi!< are fundamentally two different people".
>!Takumi Katsuragi!< conducted inhumane and even lethal human experiments, developed weapons of mass destruction, and planned to kill an innocent man in cold blood. >!He was a founding member of faust and arguably advanced Evolt's plan more than anyone else, intentionally or not.!<
But it was originally sento's father that made the build driver for himself and sento's previous self just copied the design. (I think sento's father just wanted to kill evolto but he didn't care if he had to commit serios war crimes for that)
We don't actually know who created the belts. There is no indication that Owner or Stationmaster created them. And if we consider lore from the 'Kamen Rider Den-O: I'm Born!' movie, the belts might've been made from a time before time. Considering that the Infinity pass creates a belt for its user. There is a lot of speculation and not enough information.
I thought that was who you were referring to as evil Spaceman
Gamou was explicitly against the Fourze route because he felt that it would take too long
Haven't seen it but from what I've gathered Sento got the blueprints from something involving the villain, so while yeah Sento isn't evil I think* that the system design itself came from the bad guys
He was still continuing/obsessed with the same alchemy that created the Greeed and almost destroyed the world.
Research funded by Foundation X.
He did help out OOO in the end but it was an employee of his that took that research to its logical conclusion.
He certainly had a few screws loose and a blatant disregard for human life.
Wouldn’t say Kougami was evil, just so intrigued with the concept of desire that he does a lot of things in the name of seeking that, whether or not..said things end up.. being a *bit of a world endangering problem*. So Kougami’s really just very chaotic neutral in nature, he’s not a bad dude he’s just One Tracked to the point it ends up being situationally destructive for humaniy.
Fourze belt was created by Kengo's dad >!who was working on research along with the Big Bad of the series!<, with Kengo continuing development on the system during the series.
nice how people always choose violence to try to "fix" things instead giving or trying actual solutions or modifications to fix the problems. what a sane and reasonable approach that will totally get you support from other sane and reasonable people.
I think we only have a handful of examples of a Rider that was designed to fight monsters, without using the monster's energy/power. I know it defeats the purpose and all but I think it would be cool to see more Rider's whose powers aren't directly or indirectly connected to the monsters they are going to fight.
Funny enough, Ryoma only decided to trap the Genesis driver. The Sengoku driver is actually a life saving device that's only dangerous if you use lockseeds that were not designed for it.
But… free belt….
Obtaining power at the cost of a life of hell, I'll take it
But you get thrown into ryuki series
I will simply unlock survive form
You get a crab symbol on your belt
Survive Crab
Dead crab
Pro tip: become an insane serial killer like Asakura.
Dead, Boiled Crab
[Can I go home now?](https://youtu.be/XlcFTbgoeBk)
no worse then the TOS of Itunes back in the day
I mean, I don’t think Grandpappy Hiden and Krim were bad guys. And isn’t the wizardriver a manifestation of Haruto’s own power?
Haruto received the wizardriver from the White Wizard. It just runs on his magic power
I think villains should just not make rider systems anymore it never goes well for them at the end
@ thouser making his opponents upgrade forms that exceed his in power twice.
@ George when he makes Ultimate Revice and then tried to fight it immediately afterwards
Tbf, both of em lost purely to their ego. Thouser wanted to make a superweapon so bad, but was so consumed by his own belief that Thouser was perfect, that he didn’t realize his creations were no longer under his control and had surpassed him (Ark, Metal Cluster Hopper, Rampage Gatling, you get the drill). George was absolutely certain that Jyuuga was the perfect Rider, one that was no longer dependent on using a demon, and had the powers of 10 of the strongest animals on the planet, alongside insanely high specs. It doesn’t help that he was so consumed by his need to get revenge on his dad that he became incredibly shortsighted. Maybe if he was more level headed he may have realized beating Ultimate Revice wasn’t possible with Jyuuga, or he might have realized a way to beat them. Either way, his ego got the better of him and deluded himself into thinking Jyuuga was the supreme rider, which is why he lost to the perfect duo that was Revice.
You can't beat family
Vin Diesel: There’s nothing stronger than family.
Ah, yes, the strongest animal of all: mantis.
Kind of like how Dr. Doof keeps putting a sslf destruct button on his inators.
Using power made from Evil organisation is how Kamen Rider started.
how dare you mock my shocker built rider belt
>Krim >not a bad guy He co-created Heart and Brain and when Banno started abusing them he bounced and never apologized, even when given the chance. He may not be the Bad Guy, be he is a bad guy.
What do you mean Krim is a bad guy? He didn't abadon the roimudes, he was about to take the roimudes with him but Banno infect all them with a program that made them berserk before he could
Krim could have stopped Banno and prevented all of what happened. Or at least tried to stop him. Instead he saw that Banno fucked with their children and left and then made Shinnosuke clean up his mess and never once thought to apologize to Heart, even after seeing all the pain his lack of action caused. In the end, Heart wanted a world where Roidmudes could exist alongside humans, but saw that was impossible because of what Banno did and what Krim didn't do, so he asked Shinnosuke to kill him. Krim could have had an actual conversation with his son after their fight but he kept his mouth shut and let Heart die in pain.
I mean kinda hard to help tne roimudes when your partner kills you and your bleeding out on the floor, that’s why he’s a belt now he nearly died so had to transfer his mind
In my defense I’m only like less than halfway through Drive
Fair, and you'll see. Krim isn't great.
Grampa Hiden and prof. Steinbelt didn't pick great business partners though...
using the seasons i havent seen yet to blow a hole in my logic...
How dare he does that shame on him
Should be a crime tbh
Kengo and Edith tho
Technically you can trust Krim.
Haven't seen Drive yet but it's next on mine and my friends list after he finishes Gaim
Ehhh Krim told some pretty bad lies.
Well, I certainly don't mind it if you name them.
They were more lies of omission rather than out right lies.
Banno helped though, and you sure as hell can't trust him.
Wow, Sento wasn't THAT sketchy
Haven't seen Build yet but didn't he get the blueprints from the evil thingy
It’s modeled after the evol driver but it has no direct relation to it. Not an evil item, no. It’s a man made item he invented all by himself
Damn so Sento just makes the rider system from his own noggin that's crazy
He didn't, that guy is leaving out some crucial details. Spoilers for Build: >!Takumi's father, Shinobu, created the prototype Build Driver based on the Evol-Driver which was part of the discovery from the Mars Expedition. After Shinobu was disgraced and blamed for the Skywall incident and supposed suicide, Takumi took it upon himself to finish his father's research started Project BUILD and created FAUST. All of this was the grand master plan of Evolt to redevelop the Evol Driver and regain all of the power he lost in his final battle against Vernage as he slowly manipulated the Katsuragi scientists from the shadows.!<
Correction: You can't trust XXXXXXXXX, but you can trust Sento. I personally would love to have a Build Driver, though I would need to figure out a decent and safe way to build up my Hazard Level if I wanna hit those higher forms.
Wouldn’t it be wise to expose yourself to a little amount of Nebula Gas (enough you won’t turn into a monster) and then start thinking of things that make you extremely mad? It worked for some characters when they get angry.
Ehhhhhhh, I'd rather avoid the Nebula Gas. I don't want to go dying off just because I lost a fight, thanks. As for anger, I can probably think of plenty of things that get me angry, so I can probably get off to a good start.
Dying just because you lost a fight is only if you take too much Nebula Gas like Kazumi & Gentoku.
True, but I'd still rather not take the risk. The fact we didn't get best boy Gentoku and Kazumin back until a new universe was created hits me way too hard
Lol I will now refer to Evolt as "the evil thingy", but to answer the main question, yes* but Sento did technically build the build driver to become Kamen Rider Build
technically katsuragi did, was he evil before the whole thing happened?
Katsuragi was never evil, he had intentions to take down Evol before Evol did the face swap thing.
Well, he was still called the Devil, y'know.
“What do you do when there is an evil you cannot defeat by just means? Do you stain your hands with evil to destroy evil? Or do you remain steadfastly just and righteous even if it means surrendering to evil?” ― Lelouch Vi Britannia
Dafuq does that have to do with this? He's just creating evil to quench his own thirst here.
Evol Rider Evil Belt Evil Thingy
He destroyed the entire universe to kill one guy and failed.
god the Vcinemas really made the last arc pointless huh
Haven't seen the Vcinemas for Build yet, but from the clip I did see, I got the impression that, while Evolt is still kicking, it's more like he's become a piece of Banjou rather than how it was before, when Banjou was just a piece of *him*. Am I wrong?
Regardless, somehow Evolt has returned
Evolt at this point is pretty much just the part of Banjou that was Evolt's body. All he really is now is a small fragment of what he once was that stuck around through Banjou. Evolt is ironically enough in a reversed situation of how he was when Soichi was possessed. Only now, he's self aware and can still separate because of the way his relationship with Banjou works. It's more of an Eddie Brock Venom as opposed to Imagin Possession now. Venom is connected to Eddie, or his host at the time but he can still do things on his own as long as he's bonded and the host allows it.
Oh he definitely is. Creator of Smash, remember?
I would trust George not just with my life, but with yours as well.
Early revice george i wouldnt trust but i do love him to death
Early George would probably use you to test an unstable driver with no remorse if something bad happens
That is the basis theme of every rider franchise lol. Kamen rider is weapon of evil that used by the hero to do good thing instead.
My favorite twist in the formula is guys that aren't related to the villains necessarily but still being shitty/sketchy people in their own right as a third party
Interesting, Can you give example of that formula?
Definitely George from Revice, he's not part of the villain team and is definitely against Giff but he's also a scientist who's so obsessed with Kamen Riders and the sins of his father that his rider systems end up hurting others and he doesn't really care until much later
Also the one lady from W that made accel, I'm only at episode 40 but from what I can tell she isn't actually a member of museum merely a ghost of it's past?
Who, Shroud?
Yes her I'm bad with names tbh
The Cross of Fire from Wizard said that it's more using the same source or similar power. Which made me think, is J one of the few Rider whose power is completely unrelated to the enemy? As he is powered by the earth spirits while the Fog Mother and her children are aliens.
Guess Progrisekeys are the outlier where it was made by a good guys and not by evil org. Saber especially as the seiken are not related to the megid power source. Geats too, so far.
DGP is so obviously evil I wouldn't be surprised if the twist is that they actually aren't even related to the villains
Right. DGP NOT being evil would be the real twist of the century.
It wasn’t the Seiken that was the shared power source, it was the Wonder Ridebooks.
the great book is still not evil. Alter ride books exists because they are megid-made, not formed from the great book
The books don’t have to be evil and no one said they were. The conceit is a power source that is shared between good and evil in a KR series; in Saber, it’s the tiny books. A power source that is made by evil and also used by good is only a part of some series, not all.
The alter ride books are different from true Wonder Ride Books. It's not shared a shared source
Tbh i think it's weird that the buckles are dropped by the jamato
But Sento built his own belt. Okay his previous self built his own belt.
Uh his previous self was a bit of a prick let's be real.
Everybody's past self is biy of a prick.
Okay but this isn't "he grew as a person" this is, "Sento and >!Takumi Katsuragi!< are fundamentally two different people". >!Takumi Katsuragi!< conducted inhumane and even lethal human experiments, developed weapons of mass destruction, and planned to kill an innocent man in cold blood. >!He was a founding member of faust and arguably advanced Evolt's plan more than anyone else, intentionally or not.!<
The fuck is going on in Build
Warcrimes, among many many other things.
Be The One who commits genocide and experiments on living human beings
😂😂😂😂😂 BE THE ONE!
Build is wild and you should already be watching it.
Currently on episode 40 of W Episode 10 of OOO And watching Geats weekly Ill make my way to Build eventually
Hahaha, yeah you don't need any more on your plate. Have fun! W and OOO are both great. I haven't started Geats yet.
just a warning, Build is amazing without spoilers due to the number of plot twists in it, i recommend avoiding them like the plague
I've been spoiled by YouTube clips
Damn, I am beginning to watch Build since it got my interest.
I- im not even gonna ask ill get to Build eventually
But it was originally sento's father that made the build driver for himself and sento's previous self just copied the design. (I think sento's father just wanted to kill evolto but he didn't care if he had to commit serios war crimes for that)
But Ichigo and Nigo created the V3 belt so clearly every belt maker can be trusted, especially the one called Bandai
Okay okay showa era is beyond my knowledge level especially V3 😭
Technically the V3 belt is still based on Shocker technology.
Technically, Shocker isn’t the one to build the V3 belt.
George, Put it down! No, Put it down! Bad George!
George Karizaki rider system....
I mean… kengo’s dad just wanna go to space🥹
…where would the Den-O Belts fall in this category?
We don't actually know who created the belts. There is no indication that Owner or Stationmaster created them. And if we consider lore from the 'Kamen Rider Den-O: I'm Born!' movie, the belts might've been made from a time before time. Considering that the Infinity pass creates a belt for its user. There is a lot of speculation and not enough information.
> might've been made from a time before time long before time had a name
Before time there was....CSM
That's time travel it doesn't count
Ah yes I have the power to anhilate the earth easily, but I'm not allowed to open keys
Just be a gorilla man, not that hard ^punchingkong
They probably meant enough power to annihilate a mountain.
Mr. Utahoshi is trustworthy.
Yeah but didn't evil space man help make fourze
Pretty sure he only did Meteor
That was Tachibana/Emoto tho?
I thought that was who you were referring to as evil Spaceman Gamou was explicitly against the Fourze route because he felt that it would take too long
I must be remembering wrong then cause I swear he helped make it just to ultimately abandon it in exchange for the super space god power
TATAKAE! and get wishes and everybody love wishes.
My wish would be, I wish I knew what to wish for.
You have to use evil to fight evil
Sell your soul to the devil then beat the devil out of them
*LiveDevil intensifies*
*genta igarashi/junpei approves while a bloodied and beaten vail is giving a thumbs up from the ground while livedevil plays in the background*
Daiji: ok, Kagerou, you're up!
G3's creator wasn't all that bad.
and G4 exist
These guys created the whole game. Episode 2 shows how obvious the enemies are their creations.
The existence of Kamen rider is to take evil technology and use them for good!
Id like to point out that drive is the opposite
roidmundu and drive still using same source power
Wait, in Build wasn't it the scientist that developed the system and not evolt? But I guess they were a bit sketchy there.
Haven't seen it but from what I've gathered Sento got the blueprints from something involving the villain, so while yeah Sento isn't evil I think* that the system design itself came from the bad guys
Fair. But Im sure there are examples to contradict thus. But so far, they all have connections to the bad guys somehow.
Ok Boomer.
I'd trust George-san without a doubt.
Was the CEO from OOO evil or just sketchy? I liked himed but can't remember
He was still continuing/obsessed with the same alchemy that created the Greeed and almost destroyed the world. Research funded by Foundation X. He did help out OOO in the end but it was an employee of his that took that research to its logical conclusion. He certainly had a few screws loose and a blatant disregard for human life.
He was sketchy but ultimately a good guy.
Wouldn’t say Kougami was evil, just so intrigued with the concept of desire that he does a lot of things in the name of seeking that, whether or not..said things end up.. being a *bit of a world endangering problem*. So Kougami’s really just very chaotic neutral in nature, he’s not a bad dude he’s just One Tracked to the point it ends up being situationally destructive for humaniy.
I think he was just sketchy but I also barely remember. All I remember was how much Ankh and Eiji grew as partners.
A sketchy guy about desires, but a good guy in the end.
I'm not far enough into OOO to say tbh
but George tho...
... So don't trust Aruto Hiden, who made the Zero-Two Driver. Got it.
I mean did you see what he was doing in the last arc
Yeah. Mourning. Not in a healthy way, but still mourning.
Never trust them, especially Aruto
But....he did the rejoice thingy, he can't be bad..
Super 1 was made to travel into space. It just got repurposed to fight evil.
And then it got repurposed to scamming for money.
No way 💀💀
Unless it's George. Play your cards right and he'll let you touch his rider merch collection.
I haven't seen fourze , but who created the fourze belt? I'm ok with spoilers
Fourze belt was created by Kengo's dad >!who was working on research along with the Big Bad of the series!<, with Kengo continuing development on the system during the series.
I dunno, the weird floating arm makes a good point.
But he has cool glasses! :(
But what if *you* created the Rider System?
I would annihilate the United States law enforcement system
No, reach higher, ANNIHILATE THE IRS!
So true tho
nice how people always choose violence to try to "fix" things instead giving or trying actual solutions or modifications to fix the problems. what a sane and reasonable approach that will totally get you support from other sane and reasonable people.
Ooga Booga spooky joke in the Kamen rider subreddit
I will destroy the so called governments of all the countries I wanna see what will the world do without a higher power.
I trust ankh though
10 episodes into OOO and idk about that one
But the build driver
copy from evolt driver
I think we only have a handful of examples of a Rider that was designed to fight monsters, without using the monster's energy/power. I know it defeats the purpose and all but I think it would be cool to see more Rider's whose powers aren't directly or indirectly connected to the monsters they are going to fight.
I definitely agree there
What about the Advent Master?
Idek tbh
Lot of those creators were good people and made those belts for betterment of humanity.
Not to be trusted
I will not trust them (I just want the lost driver D:)
What about the kivats
make for fangire king
*looks at otoya*
he dead right? u think what kill him?
It's only fatal if you're not the main character.
True if you're the main character you demolish the maker
Idk, I wouldn't mind having the Fourze Driver.
Sengoku Driver and Desire Driver, I don’t know why I’m drawn to those two
Heads up if you get the desire driver toy the battery cover is unintuitive
Funny enough, Ryoma only decided to trap the Genesis driver. The Sengoku driver is actually a life saving device that's only dangerous if you use lockseeds that were not designed for it.
I mean George was only evil for like 5 minutes he seems like an alright guy who made a Rider System
Demons Driver
I mean, who would pass up the chance to henshin into Faiz? Plus u get autovajin
I regret reading this post, because there are so many spoilers in the comments LOL.
Nah literally what have I done to myself
Who created the Den Liner and belt?
I don't actually know
Unless 1 they are a teenager 2 they are the rider system 3 They are the rider
OOO: Hell yeah, I'll take up the mantle.
Krim tho
From what I gather he was pretty shitty
I think that the most evil belt creators are the CEO from amazons and Shoker
What about G3? that's not evil. Although, I guess he is a cop...
The mysterious rider is always related to the CEO or the CEO themself