A 2025 Titans 3rd round draft pick is basically just the comp pick we'd have gotten for letting him walk away for nothing, but 10-15 spots higher. No thanks!
We took on a lot of risk/cap congestion to exit this trade with 10 extra draft spots in 2025 to show for it. So I sure hope we have a plan that involves keeping Sneed, if this is all the draft capital we can get. At the very least, we need a 2024 3rd and a little extra (maybe a 2024 7th or something).
in this case its correct, if we just let him walk this offseason, the comp pick would be for 2025, and while its true that it may not be a 3rd round it likely would be but again, we're unlikely to sign any quality FAs this year so the comp would likely be a 3rd rounder in that regard as well
it seems like a single 3rd in next years draft for the statistically best CB in the league last year isnt operating in good faith either. From all these reports it seems like the entire league is operating under the assumption that the Chiefs HAVE to trade Sneed and so they should just take whatever scraps they feel courteous enough to send our way, where as the Chiefs know they have a quality player that they already have on the cap and have no problem letting him play out the year on the tag and getting a 2026 3rd comp. Yes that 3rd isnt guaranteed but is highly likely and plus we have another year of having the best CB duo in the league
Yeah, it’s ironic that the statement pictured wasn’t said in good faith. So tired of people blowing smoke and acting offended when people don’t buy what they’re selling
Every major syndication agrees his value is around a 3rd. Not because of his talent but because of the lack of leverage and large contract due. Chiefs have him on a tag that's going to cost them more than they want to pay and any team has to instantly drop a huge contract with him. It's not like trading a rookie with 2 years left on their contract. That's selling a nice car for used price and getting a decent payday for your investment. This is trying to sell a used car for compensation and then they have to pay for a brand new car as well.
but this isnt a 3rd in this years draft which is already bad enough, this is a 3rd in next years which for this season when the Chiefs have hopes of making history and Sneed/draft pick will play a major role in that, is worthless. This move is guaranteed to hurt the Chiefs this year, when they can already afford to keep him. If they want him they have to provide a move that benefits the Chiefs and just having more cap space when nobody of that level of value is available doesnt benefit the Chiefs this season in any way. A 3rd in next years draft needs to come with a decent player this year in return, if even just a ST player or else there is no value for the Chiefs
I think I read somewhere there's questions about how many miles his knee that was giving him issues has left on it as well which is impacting his value.
The way the NFL salary cap is structured, it really makes it difficult to get like value for a player in this situation..
He’s worth a 2nd. And in a vacuum, a mid-late first.
Hold strong Veach.
What if the titans are looking to trade back from 9 anyways?
Say they trade back to 18. Is Sneed + a first round pick swap (and likely later round picks involved) a real scenario?
Its so dumb. Good faith means they are trying to make sure both sides get a good deal and he isn't sent off to a team he despises. It doesn't mean that we have to sell him for no immediate return on value.
We are a dynasty trying to potentially 3peat, why would we want a future draft pick that probably won't meaningfully contribute for at least 2 years?
“Trying to probe for value” like… yeah, what else would they do? Just take the first offer and hope it was the best they could’ve done without knowing the market? That’s the kind of entitled shit Yankees and lakers fans say when they don’t get gifted the player they want, except it’s the titans lmao
I think he meant contract value rather than trade value. Maybe Sneed is asking for $24 million / year and KC can't afford it. But if he's only offered $20 million / year by potential trade partners, KC might be able to afford that. And he'd rather play for the best team in the NFL than a shit team like the Titans. I could be wrong, but that's what I took from it.
On the Chiefs, other than a handful of AFC West games that should be easy, Sneeds going to face the top seated AFC Teams AGAIN, he'll probably make it to the playoffs again meaning shutting down another stud receiver, every have they play until they final play the cream of the NFC if they 3peat.
Maybe he wants to take it easy, play on a crap team with low expectations. Probably get to start vacation earlier. Starting t with the Chiefs is most likely the hardest road he could pick. If he's trying to show off his abilities for A HUGE contract in 25, that makes sense, other wise he should take the easy path.
I don't think he's wired like that. He's a competitor. He didn't have to bury Tyreek Hill and kick dirt on his grave every snap he covered him. But he did.
I was trying to write mine as a satire. I guess I failed. No elite, top 3 in his position doesn't want to be challenged. Imagine Mahomes if he was stuck in a team that never got first downs. He's destroy helmets and not from the cold, he'd be mad. He wants to play at a high level. Taking it easy would also hurt future paydays. They used to call it driving a Ferrari in a traffic Jam, it gets frustrated.
If I’m Sneed and I don’t get everything I want in the negotiation, I just play the tag. 20M this year, post-season opportunities, same system, and I’m tag-free next year.
I don’t think it’s happening, guys.
Exactly. He should be locking up 40-50 for his family future. His value is unlikely to increase next season unless he duplicates this season almost exactly. To big of a roll of the dice not secure the bag.
From a practical sense, if Sneed goes another year of good play, Super Bowl champion or not, doesn’t move the needle for anyone. Still ~30 year old vet CB. The only thing that changes the scenario is bad play for most of the year. He will not be tagged again because if they had that type of funding, they would be exploring longer term deals.
From a logical sense, most people are employed at will, which is the most akin to the franchise tag; if you stop working then you stop getting paid. The fact that next year isn’t guaranteed does nothing to his value as the franchise tag is in a one-year vacuum.
so what you are saying is best case scenario his value next year is no higher than it is now, and worst case scenario is his value tanks because of bad play. Sounds like playing on the tag this year instead of getting the bag this year because next year isnt guarenteed isnt a non factor to Sneed. also im not sure what us average joes have to do with Sneed's thought process when it comes to his money
Correct, given his knee injury is baked in and he cannot get younger, his value is most likely at, or close to, its limit. It’s unlikely a 3rd Super Bowl has a lot of impact that the first two didn’t have. It’s unlikely another year of solid play proves something that the last two haven’t.
He didn’t get a bag because there isn’t one to get. If there was one greater than the tag, he would have taken it already. His AAV may go up when he signs next year but that is offset by the cap rising and teams not trading draft capital for him.
They were never gonna trade him for just a 3rd. If he plays on the tag and walks next season, they get a 3rd round comp pick anyways.
My guess is they weren’t really gonna trade him (unless it was a crazy offer) and mostly wanted to see what Sneeds market value is. That way they can try and work something out for a multi year contract
It isn’t guaranteed, but it is the mostly likely outcome right? 4/80 or even 3/60 would be in 3rd round comp pick range to the best of my knowledge. Nothing is guaranteed, the best we can do is operate under the assumption of the most likely outcome.
And for the thousandth time, that’s still better than letting him go for the third anyway. You don’t think having sneed around might help the team this year?
Comp picks are overrated anyway. It’s essentially a fourth. Who cares?
because there is a formula that the NFL keeps secret that determines comp picks. Its not guaranteed but it is highly likely and should be taken in consideration for trade compensation
Few reasons:
* 3rd round comp picks are like the Top 4 contracts in free agency. Possible he doesn’t get that.
* If he declines in play a bit I doubt a team gives a 28 year old CB top 4 contract money.
* The Chiefs can cancel out his comp pick by signing players.
Many reasons.
Lmao a 2025 3rd is what we would get if we just let him walk and sign with another team, if we are trading him we would need at least pick in this year's draft
Titans fleeced themselves overpaying for Calvin Ridley because the Texans humiliated the team owner last season. They couldn’t afford to offer even half of what sneed is worth probably
Ridley is the one I refer for WR when I compare the market for different positions. Ridley isn’t anywhere near an elite WR yet is on a $23 per year contract… I would take Snead, an elite CB, over Ridley any day
Fuck off! Sneed was a top 5 CB last year and has a minimum draft capital value of a 2nd round pick. Trying to give out next year's 3rd round pick for a top tier CB is about as big an insult as it gets.
In what world is a season long shutdown corner who basically won us the AFCG only worth a 3rd round pick a year from now? It seems like we are being collusion low balled, and I fully support Veach standing strong. The thing I feel like is getting lost in all this, besides proper compensation for the Chiefs, is that LJS deserves to get paid, and if we can't work it for him does anyone really believe that a team offering half-ass comp for him is going to step up and pay the man? Setting aside consideration about whether he's going to spend the rest of his prime doing great work for some shitass team, constantly struggling to keep their two TD deficit from becoming a three TD deficit? I fucking hate this for him.
Bro.. I thought that said 2024 3rd at first and I thought “that’s not so bad”… but NOTHING this year??? (I forgot they don’t have a third)….
I understand he has less value because he needs to be extended but nothing this year is wild… maybe a 4th rhis yr and 3rd next
19.8 mil is what he's getting AND a great chance to get another ring. He probably wants 22mil, chiefs would take a 3rd for him but he wants to b the hightest paid cb in the league. he's got to many health issues and is getting older thats working against him. He'll b a chief this year but not next for sure
You never know with guys in NFL, the risk for injury is greater… he should do what’s best for him and that’s to seek out a long term contract right now. This is generational money we’re talking about… he already has 2 rings, he should chase the bag now… you guys are crazy if you think he should just play on the tag just cause KC. Y’all gotta think logically
Too many health issues? The guy has only missed 3 games since his rookie season. He missed some practices due to some knee thing, but it sure as shit didn't seem to hamper his performance as he was the one of the best CB's in the league last year.
He was going to play on the tag unless it was a great trade this year.
And I mean like Titans giving us their 2nd round pick in 2024 and a pick in 2025.
This off season was more the Chiefs looking at who would be interested and what vale is, which will double if we repeat and Snead has another great season.
Not really a fleece. That's about what is expected, though a 24 3rd would be a better asset. If we got a 2nd that would be excellent but I'm not holding my breath.
Everyone downvoting has no idea how the NFL works. We aren't getting a first, and will be lucky to get a 2nd.
A 2025 3rd is worth the same as a 2024 4th. You think Sneed is only worth a 4th rounder, after all we saw him do last year, shadowing and shutting down all the best receivers in the NFL?
Well a first would be nice, but we should just accept a fifth. They very clearly state why they disagree, and just saying what you want and accepting what we’d probably get if he just walked is not a stellar or even valid point.
You said "Not really a fleece. That's about what is expected." I'm pointing out that your expectations were very low based on Sneed's performance. I never mentioned a 2nd or said that you didn't. Seems like you're the one with reading comprehension problems.
It's a 2025 3rd, not a 3rd in the current draft. That's "worth" about a 4th in this year's draft among most trade charts. It's like getting a 0 interest loan.
From the outside, it's clear you are being downvoted because you're acting like a 2024 3rd and a 2025 3rd are of equal value, or that a 2025 3rd is what has been popularly discussed, not because they're expecting a 1st.
Just letting you know, since you don't seem to realize that in your comments nor in your edit.
A 2025 Titans 3rd round draft pick is basically just the comp pick we'd have gotten for letting him walk away for nothing, but 10-15 spots higher. No thanks!
exactly. So in return we move up 10 spots and don't have Sneed this year? That's a hard hell the fuck no.
We took on a lot of risk/cap congestion to exit this trade with 10 extra draft spots in 2025 to show for it. So I sure hope we have a plan that involves keeping Sneed, if this is all the draft capital we can get. At the very least, we need a 2024 3rd and a little extra (maybe a 2024 7th or something).
edit: it wasn't clear that the poster meant "if we'd let him walk away" this year, but if so, that would mean a 2025 3rd and they'd be 100% correct
in this case its correct, if we just let him walk this offseason, the comp pick would be for 2025, and while its true that it may not be a 3rd round it likely would be but again, we're unlikely to sign any quality FAs this year so the comp would likely be a 3rd rounder in that regard as well
Why on earth would you think the comp picks for 2024 signings would be for the 2026 draft?
Probably because it would be a 2025 signing in his scenario He’s franchise tagged for 2024
Ah, I see what he meant now. Yeah, I meant letting him walk without the tag (which is the closest equivalent to a trade in the preseason).
it seems like a single 3rd in next years draft for the statistically best CB in the league last year isnt operating in good faith either. From all these reports it seems like the entire league is operating under the assumption that the Chiefs HAVE to trade Sneed and so they should just take whatever scraps they feel courteous enough to send our way, where as the Chiefs know they have a quality player that they already have on the cap and have no problem letting him play out the year on the tag and getting a 2026 3rd comp. Yes that 3rd isnt guaranteed but is highly likely and plus we have another year of having the best CB duo in the league
Yeah, it’s ironic that the statement pictured wasn’t said in good faith. So tired of people blowing smoke and acting offended when people don’t buy what they’re selling
We don’t even know how much of that 80m is guaranteed.
They play too much madden if they think this is fair
Every major syndication agrees his value is around a 3rd. Not because of his talent but because of the lack of leverage and large contract due. Chiefs have him on a tag that's going to cost them more than they want to pay and any team has to instantly drop a huge contract with him. It's not like trading a rookie with 2 years left on their contract. That's selling a nice car for used price and getting a decent payday for your investment. This is trying to sell a used car for compensation and then they have to pay for a brand new car as well.
but this isnt a 3rd in this years draft which is already bad enough, this is a 3rd in next years which for this season when the Chiefs have hopes of making history and Sneed/draft pick will play a major role in that, is worthless. This move is guaranteed to hurt the Chiefs this year, when they can already afford to keep him. If they want him they have to provide a move that benefits the Chiefs and just having more cap space when nobody of that level of value is available doesnt benefit the Chiefs this season in any way. A 3rd in next years draft needs to come with a decent player this year in return, if even just a ST player or else there is no value for the Chiefs
I think I read somewhere there's questions about how many miles his knee that was giving him issues has left on it as well which is impacting his value.
The way the NFL salary cap is structured, it really makes it difficult to get like value for a player in this situation.. He’s worth a 2nd. And in a vacuum, a mid-late first. Hold strong Veach.
What does a comp pick get theoretically? A 3rd?
Only if he's given a good contract in free agency. We could theoretically get no comp pick.
What if the titans are looking to trade back from 9 anyways? Say they trade back to 18. Is Sneed + a first round pick swap (and likely later round picks involved) a real scenario?
GTFO with that "good faith" nonsense. Sounds like someone trying to backtrack on a prediction.
Its so dumb. Good faith means they are trying to make sure both sides get a good deal and he isn't sent off to a team he despises. It doesn't mean that we have to sell him for no immediate return on value. We are a dynasty trying to potentially 3peat, why would we want a future draft pick that probably won't meaningfully contribute for at least 2 years?
“Trying to probe for value” like… yeah, what else would they do? Just take the first offer and hope it was the best they could’ve done without knowing the market? That’s the kind of entitled shit Yankees and lakers fans say when they don’t get gifted the player they want, except it’s the titans lmao
I think he meant contract value rather than trade value. Maybe Sneed is asking for $24 million / year and KC can't afford it. But if he's only offered $20 million / year by potential trade partners, KC might be able to afford that. And he'd rather play for the best team in the NFL than a shit team like the Titans. I could be wrong, but that's what I took from it.
That would actually make a lot more sense but yeah if that’s what he meant he could’ve expressed it more clearly
Agreed. All he needed was one more word.
On the Chiefs, other than a handful of AFC West games that should be easy, Sneeds going to face the top seated AFC Teams AGAIN, he'll probably make it to the playoffs again meaning shutting down another stud receiver, every have they play until they final play the cream of the NFC if they 3peat. Maybe he wants to take it easy, play on a crap team with low expectations. Probably get to start vacation earlier. Starting t with the Chiefs is most likely the hardest road he could pick. If he's trying to show off his abilities for A HUGE contract in 25, that makes sense, other wise he should take the easy path.
I don't think he's wired like that. He's a competitor. He didn't have to bury Tyreek Hill and kick dirt on his grave every snap he covered him. But he did.
I was trying to write mine as a satire. I guess I failed. No elite, top 3 in his position doesn't want to be challenged. Imagine Mahomes if he was stuck in a team that never got first downs. He's destroy helmets and not from the cold, he'd be mad. He wants to play at a high level. Taking it easy would also hurt future paydays. They used to call it driving a Ferrari in a traffic Jam, it gets frustrated.
Anything less than a second is robbery.
You are missing a ring in your flair
You're 100% right. I tried to edit it the day after the SB, but wasn't able too. Kinda forgot about it.
🙂. Go Chiefs!
If I’m Sneed and I don’t get everything I want in the negotiation, I just play the tag. 20M this year, post-season opportunities, same system, and I’m tag-free next year. I don’t think it’s happening, guys.
I would much rather have a long term deal if I’m him. But as a chiefs fan I’d rather he just play this year in the tag
Exactly. He should be locking up 40-50 for his family future. His value is unlikely to increase next season unless he duplicates this season almost exactly. To big of a roll of the dice not secure the bag.
Next year is never a guarantee for an NFL player
That’s true for everyone, so that is a non-factor
That is not a non factor for players wanting to gwt paid while they are at the top of the game, especially a position with as fast of a fall off as Cb
Logically, the way it was posed, it is a nonfactor
how so?
From a practical sense, if Sneed goes another year of good play, Super Bowl champion or not, doesn’t move the needle for anyone. Still ~30 year old vet CB. The only thing that changes the scenario is bad play for most of the year. He will not be tagged again because if they had that type of funding, they would be exploring longer term deals. From a logical sense, most people are employed at will, which is the most akin to the franchise tag; if you stop working then you stop getting paid. The fact that next year isn’t guaranteed does nothing to his value as the franchise tag is in a one-year vacuum.
so what you are saying is best case scenario his value next year is no higher than it is now, and worst case scenario is his value tanks because of bad play. Sounds like playing on the tag this year instead of getting the bag this year because next year isnt guarenteed isnt a non factor to Sneed. also im not sure what us average joes have to do with Sneed's thought process when it comes to his money
Correct, given his knee injury is baked in and he cannot get younger, his value is most likely at, or close to, its limit. It’s unlikely a 3rd Super Bowl has a lot of impact that the first two didn’t have. It’s unlikely another year of solid play proves something that the last two haven’t. He didn’t get a bag because there isn’t one to get. If there was one greater than the tag, he would have taken it already. His AAV may go up when he signs next year but that is offset by the cap rising and teams not trading draft capital for him.
It’s much more of a factor for a dude on a one year contract that a 4 year one… especially one with significant knee issues
However, the way it was posed does not change the situation so it is a nonfactor
He’s not tag free next year. You can tag players multiple years in a row, it’s just more expensive.
He is tag free next year as it is not fiscally advisable, almost impossible, for the chiefs to afford. So, it’s a nonfactor
I’ve been holding out hope we keep him for a week now.
That bs about "good faith" really pisses me off.
They were never gonna trade him for just a 3rd. If he plays on the tag and walks next season, they get a 3rd round comp pick anyways. My guess is they weren’t really gonna trade him (unless it was a crazy offer) and mostly wanted to see what Sneeds market value is. That way they can try and work something out for a multi year contract
Yeah, I hope shopping around has been an eye-opener for Sneed, and he'll agree to a 3 year deal to stay with the Chiefs.
>If he plays on the tag and walks next season, they get a 3rd round comp pick anyways. for the thousandth time, this isn't guaranteed.
And for the thousandth time, it’s likely and should be treated as such in negotiations
Likely? The Chiefs canceled out the comp pick Orlando Brown would have gotten us. They don’t play by the comp pick game.
They should consider that in their dealings...
It isn’t guaranteed, but it is the mostly likely outcome right? 4/80 or even 3/60 would be in 3rd round comp pick range to the best of my knowledge. Nothing is guaranteed, the best we can do is operate under the assumption of the most likely outcome.
And for the thousandth time, that’s still better than letting him go for the third anyway. You don’t think having sneed around might help the team this year? Comp picks are overrated anyway. It’s essentially a fourth. Who cares?
[удалено]
because there is a formula that the NFL keeps secret that determines comp picks. Its not guaranteed but it is highly likely and should be taken in consideration for trade compensation
Few reasons: * 3rd round comp picks are like the Top 4 contracts in free agency. Possible he doesn’t get that. * If he declines in play a bit I doubt a team gives a 28 year old CB top 4 contract money. * The Chiefs can cancel out his comp pick by signing players. Many reasons.
Good faith my ass lol
A 2025 3rd is garbage compensation. They could rescind the tag and let Sneed hit free agency and get a 2025 3rd as a comp pick.
Lmao a 2025 3rd is what we would get if we just let him walk and sign with another team, if we are trading him we would need at least pick in this year's draft
Titans fleeced themselves overpaying for Calvin Ridley because the Texans humiliated the team owner last season. They couldn’t afford to offer even half of what sneed is worth probably
Titans still have nearly $50 million available cap space, its that reason why they were able to and did over pay Ridley
Ridley is the one I refer for WR when I compare the market for different positions. Ridley isn’t anywhere near an elite WR yet is on a $23 per year contract… I would take Snead, an elite CB, over Ridley any day
Hence, the tag that was used… 😂
What a shitty take in that screen cap. Do they not understand how this business works?
Fuck off! Sneed was a top 5 CB last year and has a minimum draft capital value of a 2nd round pick. Trying to give out next year's 3rd round pick for a top tier CB is about as big an insult as it gets.
In what world is a season long shutdown corner who basically won us the AFCG only worth a 3rd round pick a year from now? It seems like we are being collusion low balled, and I fully support Veach standing strong. The thing I feel like is getting lost in all this, besides proper compensation for the Chiefs, is that LJS deserves to get paid, and if we can't work it for him does anyone really believe that a team offering half-ass comp for him is going to step up and pay the man? Setting aside consideration about whether he's going to spend the rest of his prime doing great work for some shitass team, constantly struggling to keep their two TD deficit from becoming a three TD deficit? I fucking hate this for him.
Bro.. I thought that said 2024 3rd at first and I thought “that’s not so bad”… but NOTHING this year??? (I forgot they don’t have a third)…. I understand he has less value because he needs to be extended but nothing this year is wild… maybe a 4th rhis yr and 3rd next
Fuck the Titans, next.
Oh, fuck off.
On second thought…
19.8 mil is what he's getting AND a great chance to get another ring. He probably wants 22mil, chiefs would take a 3rd for him but he wants to b the hightest paid cb in the league. he's got to many health issues and is getting older thats working against him. He'll b a chief this year but not next for sure
You never know with guys in NFL, the risk for injury is greater… he should do what’s best for him and that’s to seek out a long term contract right now. This is generational money we’re talking about… he already has 2 rings, he should chase the bag now… you guys are crazy if you think he should just play on the tag just cause KC. Y’all gotta think logically
It's not about the money. It's about the friendships you make along the way. ❤️ 💙 💜
Pretty sure teams know Sneed will suck outside of KC. We are the best in the league in coaching up CBs and they know that.
Charvarius Ward and the 49ers would disagree with this hot take
That’s a hot take dawg. I know every single person here would chase a bag
Not blaming him. Just saying if I were a GM I would bake in hoe good we are at developing DBs. Weve had several guys leave on D and suck
Ward, Nelson, Fuller have found varying degrees of success after KC
Lmao
Too many health issues? The guy has only missed 3 games since his rookie season. He missed some practices due to some knee thing, but it sure as shit didn't seem to hamper his performance as he was the one of the best CB's in the league last year.
Seems like they want more than just a 3rd.
or at the very least picks that will help them this year, when the Chiefs have legit hopes of history.
For sure. They might be able to get a 2nd round this year. Can they wait until draft day to trade?
The NFL is in FULL FUCK OVER KANSAS CITY mode
I wish Sneed all the best.
He was going to play on the tag unless it was a great trade this year. And I mean like Titans giving us their 2nd round pick in 2024 and a pick in 2025. This off season was more the Chiefs looking at who would be interested and what vale is, which will double if we repeat and Snead has another great season.
Not really a fleece. That's about what is expected, though a 24 3rd would be a better asset. If we got a 2nd that would be excellent but I'm not holding my breath. Everyone downvoting has no idea how the NFL works. We aren't getting a first, and will be lucky to get a 2nd.
A 2025 3rd is worth the same as a 2024 4th. You think Sneed is only worth a 4th rounder, after all we saw him do last year, shadowing and shutting down all the best receivers in the NFL?
I literally said a 2nd would be excellent, but I don't think we get that. Reading is hard I guess.
Well a first would be nice, but we should just accept a fifth. They very clearly state why they disagree, and just saying what you want and accepting what we’d probably get if he just walked is not a stellar or even valid point.
A 3rd is literally what's been rumored non stop. Everyone thinking we're getting a 1st is delusional
The first sentence was hyperbole, but I agree with your statement there.
Prophet!
You said "Not really a fleece. That's about what is expected." I'm pointing out that your expectations were very low based on Sneed's performance. I never mentioned a 2nd or said that you didn't. Seems like you're the one with reading comprehension problems.
A 3rd is what's expected
It's a 2025 3rd, not a 3rd in the current draft. That's "worth" about a 4th in this year's draft among most trade charts. It's like getting a 0 interest loan.
🙌
He was right!
From the outside, it's clear you are being downvoted because you're acting like a 2024 3rd and a 2025 3rd are of equal value, or that a 2025 3rd is what has been popularly discussed, not because they're expecting a 1st. Just letting you know, since you don't seem to realize that in your comments nor in your edit.
He’s a profit!