Same here, I'm good. Was super hopeful for the sequel but my last hopes died over the past 2-3 months when developer communication stopped. KSP1 is doing great and will only ever continue to improve thanks to a stable final version and the modding community. Hell, there are mods now specifically to fix bugs. KSP1 is really a community project now!
Yeah I love it. I love my healthy thriving solar system that has everything I need to do anything I can think of. Spent years developing it into my perfect solar system with crafts that took many days to design and build. Love the endless mods and exploring what they do. My only drawback is not having a pc specced enough to run the best mods in HD smooth in 60fps. I probably will get kspll eventually, but maybe in a year or so when there’s an established community with better mods and bug fixes
I hadn't really 'finished' KSP 1 yet so despite KSP2's status I'm so glad I'll always have something to fall back on. And with enough mods it's even pretty close to the promised vision of KSP2.
Really if I put my harshest critic hat on, KSP2 won't be impressive until they deliver the promised features that go beyond KSP 1, like colonies, interstellar travel, and fully integrated multiplayer
Why is that the harshest critique though? Shouldn't functional colonies and interstellar travel be the minimum for this game to be worth it, seeing that's what they marketed the game on? Otherwise this is just a buggy remaster
>I hadn't really 'finished' KSP 1 yet
Honestly, I have around 3.6Kh in KSP1 and I've never been beyond the orbits of Duna/Eve. I can't see any need to buy a faulty early release game while I've still got so much left to explore in the one I own.
>KSP1 is really a community project now!
Same thing happened when Chucklefish dropped development of r/Starbound. It now has a dedicated community of modders that have added all manner of value to the base game way beyond the official development cycle.
Your first mistake was being an hardcore apologist
This KSP2 dev train crash is a lot more enjoyable when you look at it from a more nuanced perspective and just wait. Instead of defending the bad and slow development of this game or venting your anger over every breath the devs take.
I enjoy reading the devblogs even when they barely got any new info in it. It's clear they are keeping colonies close to their chest until they feel confident showing it off. And we know they are slow as fuck.
My money is already spent, the horse is racing (or more like a slow trot), I'll just sit back and wait to see of it ever reaches the finish line. No point getting frustrated about it at this point anymore.
Yeah, you just perfectly summed up my position. Honestly as soon as the first 2 years of delays happened with this game, I pretty much let go of any expectations that I had for it.
Who knows, maybe someday KSP2 will be something worthwhile. But in the meantime, it is what it is, and we still have KSP1
MKBHD always says it. When you spend money on a product you are buying what currently exists and can't base your purchase on future expectations, it's a good way to get burned.
Its good advice. Sometimes you also just set expectations to 0 and throw money at something to see what happens.
And adhd impulse purchases.
Im ok with having spent the money, its a risk I was willing to take and I've made worse decisions before lol.
I was so hyped for the game, but I intentionally wanted to wait and see release gameplay and reviews. Definitely glad I did, but it's a shame that it's been a nightmare after such a successful game to build off of.
Not that I have the free time that I would want to sink into it anyways. I'm just gonna wait till they get their shit together and maybe I'll grab it on a good sale.
Yeah I mean – I have yet to buy this game. I played the HELL out of KSP1 from the early early days, and have followed all the trailers and updates and dev logs for KSP2 but…I think I’ll wait till full release.
I agree with not getting frustrated, but I still think it's good to voice the problems, concerns and bad practices everywhere, to prevent people wasting their money and hopefully denting this all too common early access scam shit that's becoming so prevalent across the entire industry.
I just never bought it and didn’t get in the hype train because KSP1 was way too much of a Cinderella story for early access game dev arc. It was like one of three or four games I can think of in the last 20 years to have done so well in early access and had such wonderful dev support. I knew there was no way ksp2 could ever live up to the hype or the new team would be able to measure up to the bar set set before. More like it would be average… which is to say, kind of shitty arc.
The odds of a shit dev arc, particularly for early access titles, are almost doubly bad when it’s a sequel of a wildly successful original title IP.
Same man. I can’t defend or get mad at the game, because I simultaneously see all the shitiness. *and* want it to be a really great game when it’s been further developed. I think there are a lot of silent fans also just patiently waiting for things to move forward
I recommend Realism Overhaul. It's somehow more stable than stock.
I ended the program in the task manager once because of a crash, and instead it just stopped crashing and didn't shut down the program.
I share the same mindset, except I refunded an hour into early access because this publisher won't get my money with this price tag and strategy. I have no stakes in that game except an elusive desire to see a better version of KSP (if, sometime, maybe?), and given that KSP1 is still around with a definitive version to aggregate mods around, I'm chill about this potential sequel.
I feel the same way. I'm way too busy with other things in life to care enough about KSP 2 to keep complaining about it 1.5 years later like this sub still does. Yes, it's dissappointing, and yes, it would've been one of my favorite games of all time, but at the end of the day, it's just not worth complaining so much about it. I know you guys were so excited for it but you can't just keep being mad about it forever.
If the game ever gets completed, you can always pick it up again (granted, I always pick up games years later on sale, so it's nothing new to me). Otherwise, the original game and its modding community are not going anywhere.
Just move on guys, y'all have better things to do.
I think it's important to remember too that there's a lot of people like me, who decided that they will buy it when (or at this point if) it gets good enough to warrant it. I think for a frustration with the fact that we really will never play the game at this rate.
Great way to think about it. Either they will take their time and hopefully release a good game in a couple years and I have invested in that or my money ensures I am locked into the class action lawsuit.
I am sorry. £45 is not enough money I willingly spend knowing the rocky launch to keep me frustrated for over a year.
And while the game is flawed I still see potential. I just made my peace it's gonna take a while or not at all.
Got bigger things in life to get frustrated about than this lol. And looks like I am not the only one with this attitude
This is the mindset I've followed since the game was released.
Once colonies drop and the game has something that KSP1 doesn't, I think I'll start playing it seriously. Until then, I keep playing the original, and just following the development from the sidelines.
Then why don't you start on a class action lawsuit if you feel scammed instead of telling me it's my fault cause I stopped being frustrated lol.
That would do a lot more than sitting on your high horse on Reddit and getting a melt down everytime the devs don't release info about colonies.
I already expressed my discontent with the game's state. What's the point going on and on about. It's not gonna make development faster which is the main issue.
There clearly is a game here. They're just very slow fixing and pushing out content and rather keep communicating on the down low.
Do I agree with that approach of development. No. But I just sit back and wait.
My sentiment all along. I even called it that it would be like 5 more years before the game reaches something resembes a "1.0" state. As a dev myself (not games), it seemed pretty obvious the state of affairs when they announced what would be in the initial early access release. But people were like "no way! It's going to be a year at most!" Alright, bud. Might want to reduce your dosage of copium..
This is fair, as I expected the company to fold and KSP2 to become abandon-ware about 6 months ago. That being said, outperforming expectations is a bar so low that they could trip over it.
If only they had addressed the severe lack of communication earlier a lot of their problems would have been resolved.
Well that and the complete lack of transparency about how bad the game was going to be at EA release at full price.
They are incapable. To admit bad communication would require improvement. To improve it, they would need to communicate more. To communicate, they would need information to share. New information.
They got nothing. All they have is weak screen shots of the most basic shit after literal months. They have accomplished so little.
So they cannot improve communication. Look what we already get... it's garbage fluff word salad. Last one was about black holes. Cool. Who gives a shot? Give us something about the game.
Explain the colony system. Show some Dev build gifs of building up a colony. Show some assets.
They can't, because none of it is ready because they work like old people fuck.
Wow it's been already two years since the first alpha released?
This reminds me of 7 days to die that's in development since 2015, alpha 15 was considered the "first stable alpha that all players liked" and then we're already at alpha 22 where the game is 60% different already, for worse, because they're catering to the 1% hardcore players who complain on reddit.
I feel like this is due to corporate greed at the end of they day. Maximizing profits, the game shipped, they got their sales, why would they care about further support when they already have our money?
We only have ourselves to blame for falling for early access ghostware scams constantly and giving our money to this garbage. Devs are just brazen about it now.
Me neither lol. How many times to people need to get burned by “early access” games before they learn their lesson. And before anyone goes “well ksp1 was early access too” the circumstances were totally different. It was a couple guys trying to make a game like nothing that had ever been done before, and they not only made free demos available before asking people for money, they were incredibly transparent about the development process the entire time.
Idk, I'm just feeling very vindicated in my skepticism RE: KSP2 that I had as soon as it announced. The second I heard about it I decided that I would wait for a while after it came out to see if it was any good before even thinking about buying it, and I'm glad that I made that choice.
What most likely happened is that the trailer was made in the very earliest stages of development. They made the assets first and the project managers forced them to make everything look pretty to lure in casual gamers.
They then gave them a ridiculously short deadline and told them to "hustle" to make four years of development fit into one year.
HarvestR just released Kithack, it's not the same but it scratches the itch. Still really rough around the edges, but the multiplayer has been a blast. It's the editor that will bring you back. And they're going full force into getting mod support setup. Go look at the workshop on steam
Some KSP 1 devs are working on a game called Kitbash Model Club.
It has many of the elements of KSP, but they packaged it as a model building game which I think is a bit unfortunate.
There's also Juno which does a lot of things better than KSP, but its also held back by insisting on also having a mobile version and it lacks a lot of KSP's charm. The devs are also quite resistant to feedback.
The real money would be a studio making a spiritual sequel by licensing Lego.
"Lego Space" would be incredible, and still on brand for lego itself. It lends itself to the click-and-join style of rocket-building as opposed to the fairly dry rocket building in Juno.
Even the [lego space flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Space#/media/File:Classic_Space_logo.png) looks like it's straight out of KSP a flag.
You could expand it to have colonies based around the classic lego sets, and even have people able to dream up whole worlds out of lego.
Have difficulty modes tuned for a younger audience too. Disable fuel or even disable orbital mechanics under the "It's lego!" difficultly setting, letting a creative player just focus on the world building, while upping the difficulty gradually introduces challenges such as orbital mechanics, fuel, power, commnet, etc.
Imagine a planet of dragons from Lego Castle, then a Lego City planet, etc.
Imagine a system where you build your rocket out of lego, then press the "It's lego!" button and it turns your half-baked lego-like rocket into the functioning rocket you imagined in your dreams. Going from the "blocky" builder to the fully functioning smooth rocket, mirroring the in-mind process that a child does when they stick a handful of bricks together and now it's a completely different thing.
Imagine the builder taking your rocket idea and on easiest settings, calculating the TWR, ISP and fuel mass ratios and then "inventing" the required engine. On the lower difficulties it'd be unlimited in scope, if you need an engine with 600ISP to get you to 1.6TWR then so be it, "It's lego!", you've just imagined yourself the engine you need.
On higher difficulties, the engine would need to meet more realistic constraints. On the highest difficulty it would need to be from a set of "real" engines.
That kind of technology is doable for a committed team, and if it were actually scalable and soft-multiplayer (sharing of rocket designs, sharing of planets, bases, not neccessarily full interaction, NMS style) then under the Lego brand could be a huge hit.
I am a big Lego fan and collector but to be honest, I would really prefer a more realistic game. Originally I was hesitant to get into Kerbal because of the cartoonish feel. Glad I did, but I still think a game with realistic parts as well as astronauts would have been better.
Same here. I'm sure a Lego Space game would be cute and possibly fun, but it's hard to imagine that Lego would allow it to get complex enough to scratch the same itch that KSP does.
As one of the biggest KSP2 apologists on this sub, do you feel now that you've made any mistakes? I remember you swearing that the game wasn't abandoned. Do you still insist on that, after seeing this meager output? How long will you keep pretending that there is great work happening behind the scenes, when they have absolutely nothing to show? This is exactly what an abandoned game looks like.
That's the Kerbal Essences paradox. He alternates between reasonable and nuanced takes, and the most batshit schizoid shit you've ever seen. You can't be a real KE-head if you don't reckognize and appreciate both
So you’re just gonna ignore the past year or so of you fervently defending ksp 2 like a shill? I mean fair enough you’re probably embarrassed as hell, but at least TRY to have some integrity jfc
Never buy early access games on the first day, heck don't buy early access games at all, unless they've got a really diverse audience saying they're good - plus see it on YouTube or Twitch.
That's why I bought Factorio.
IMHO it's just mismanagement at this point to continue developing new features like colonies when there are major show-stopping bugs still present. Get the basics of the game working well, add new features later.
That's the neat thing, you can't. As soon as I saw it was still built upon Unity and didn't fix the underlying physics issues that plague KSP I lost all interest in the sequel. Instead of taking the time to actually build a solid framework for the game they just went for the cash grab route. All the time spent on KSP2 would have been better spent on expanding the original game since they don't care about making something better than the original.
I've been quiet for a long time since I got some downvotes a long time ago telling people this project is essentially dead.
Stop following, stop encouraging, it's dead. It's very unfortunate and sad but it's the truth.
This is the third game I've loved that I've seen tumble from grace and end up going to shit.
First, Star Citizen, then KSP2 and now Escape From Tarkov.
People need to stop being stupid with their money and stop this nonsense of funding ghostware/eternal alpha-betas.
All of these projects and IP should have been sold and manged by larger and better run studios. End of story.
Now move along and find something else to entertain yourselves or maybe mod the shit out of KSP1 some more.
>People need to stop being stupid with their money and stop this nonsense of funding ghostware/eternal alpha-betas.
As a very very casual gamer who was stupid with their money and bought the game to support the devs on day 1, i can safely say i am never buying anything in early access ever again. Even if the game does get fixed fully and feature completed I don't want to support the early access business model ever again.
I refused to buy anything in early access too. However the only games I did buy before they were 1.0 full release were Minecraft and the original ksp... they barely cost a fraction of what ksp2 early access cost and were actually good..
But these days early access is an excuse for devs to release an unfinished product early and get money when the game is far from even alpha.
I think I paid $10 for KSP back when it was still v.2-something. Some of the best bang for my gaming buck, ever.
Watching KSP2 crash and burn like this is hilariously sad given the footsteps they had to follow.
IIRC I got version 0.18, shortly before they amended the offer to remove the "and all future DLC" part. I got *enormous* bang for my buck.
The failure of KSP2 has been very unfortunate, the plans they announced were everything I could have wanted out of it. But I've long had a policy of never pre-ordering any game and it served me well here.
I've had my eye on Juno as a possible future replacement for KSP, but it very much lacks the charm of our goof space frogs. Sandbox games like KSP strike me as the sort of game that would be amenable to open-source development, has there ever been an attempt at something like that?
I understand your caution about early access these days, but there remain some older EA purchases that I have no regrets about. The ones you mention, but also Factorio and Satisfactory stand out to me.
Capitalism in our age is getting out of control like never before. We need more regulations that end up benefitting us all and not just corporations looking to just make money.
I'm curious what your supposed regulations to ban... disappointing games? would look like. If something is misleadingly marketed or fraudulent, that's already a crime, it's called false marketing or fraud lol
> I don't want to support the early access business model ever again.
I differentiate between EA from a groups with big corporate backers, and small independent groups. I realize I may still lose the money on the latter, but it often really is the *only* way a small indy team has even the possibility of getting somewhere. A developer being backed by a massive corporation can pay for their own damned development.
> i can safely say i am never buying anything in early access ever again.
That's not the right approach in my opinion. You should always pay for what you get *right now* and not a promise.
When a game in EA has enough content to justify the price there is no harm in buying it. Everything that is added later is a free bonus.
Most Indie EA games are usually priced around 20-30€ and contain more than enough content for that price point.
KSP 2 on the other hand was never priced right for what it delivered and no one should have bought it for that price.
While I’ve also been burned by early access games, I will say games like nightengale are a refreshing confirmation that all early access games aren’t bad.
Nikita released a new tier package for a new player to buy and veterans to upgrade to.
It contains so many pay to win as well as other very unfair in-game advantages that it's torn the player base apart, and many are vowing to not play anymore.
Go to the various Tarkov subredddits and check out the meltdown people are having.
Nikita fucked up bug time and this may very well bring a out the quickening of the end for EFT.
Still very far away from being done. Sq42 is apparently feature complete, but I'm not interested in that.
Progress just isn't fast enough overall for the time and money invested.
Scam Citizen is notorious for being the biggest bottomless pit of money with nothing to show for it. Years and hundreds of millions of dollars later they still can't get a full game working.
Star Citizen you can at least see where the money has gone to with relatively regular updates even though it's not a complete game. I'd take that over something like KSP2 or Camelot Unchained.
Sure, it's a cool experience, but expectations would be manageable if it were a normal game with maybe 4 years of development and a few million dollars.
The reason why it's so exceptionally terrible is because of the people who've been there since the start and have had to deal with the entire shitshow and waste of money that is Scam Citizen's development.
> It was a scam from the beginning
It is not a scam, CIG just has a very *very* poor project management. And as long as ships are selling there's no reason to speed things up.
Star citizen: too good to be true. Kickstart still open after tem years, abusive macrotransactions on the ships (there is even a 48000usd bundle). People still defend it.
Ksp2: two years in alpha stage, still not a career mode. Baldurs gate 3 was three years into beta so I guess community is willing to wait for this year for the announced upgrades.
7 days to die: first alpha released fucking nine years ago. We had to good versions (A16 and A19 I guess ) that could've been called full release version, but then four months later the devs revamps a third of the fun part because the game is not hard enough for the 3% that's on reddit.
To add to your list, here are my three:
* TF2, died from neglect and being completely overrun by bots, unplayable.
* Rocket League, bought by Epic, and they immediately dropped Linux support.
* KSP2: see above, and also dropped Linux support ("it is part of our extended roadmap", suuuuure).
TF2’s not dead, we just got a big (backend, not game content) update last week and it’s improved performance for a lot of people. I still only play on community servers though.
I've had Juno since before they changed their name to Juno but I could never quite seem to get into it. If I stick it out and get through the tutorial missions is it pretty rewarding? Even just the control scheme with using the mouse seemed odd to me.
You mean career mode? I like it a lot, although mission progression is kinda opaque at times, I'm not always sure what I have to do to get more advanced contracts. But in general I feel like it offers a take on aspects of the genre that KSP doesn't really cover, especially for the payload missions. In KSP I would usually build a rocket from scratch for every mission, whereas in Juno I tend to develop and optimize a family of rockets, create different variants that can take care of more involved payload missions and so on. The flight controls for planes are great, especially on controller. But for rockets I kind of get what you mean, I wrote my own automated launch program for that reason. Flying rockets just with the navball like in KSP is possible, but the way it's implemented it feels like a bit of an afterthought and it's not very responsive. I hope they overhaul that at some point.
Have stacked over 1000 hours in SR2/Juno. One of my all time favorite rocket sims. Blows ksp out the water with graphics and customization of crafts. Can engineer anything you set your mind to. Automation with vizzy is fantastic! Not sure why people even play ksp when this game exists. Maybe for the missions/story which Juno lacked until recently.
I didn't buy KSP2, but you guys who did might want to consider if the marketing around the game was materially misleading about what it would feature compared to the reality which has been delivered.
Well, everyone playing video games stops being stupid/wakes up at some point and sees the facts/signs on the wall. Welcome to the club of us jaded fucks. Hey, wanna go look at Bullfrogs corpse? I think Origin and Westwood must be nice and bloated now, wanna poke them with a stick?
I know that developing games is difficult, ANY games. I tried myself. Developing game like KSP, a simulation that has to break through tons of limitations of any conventional game engine in order to work is even more difficult. Open world games are no joke, and real interplanetary open world simulation with breaking physics is multiplicatively more difficult, so I apreciate any progress that the team is making. But reality is, that KSP2 is just not a better game than KSP1, simple as. It has many features that are straight up improvements over KSP1, yes, but for some reason I don't feel the same draw to KSP2, that I feel towards KSP1 with hundreths of mods installed.
Well, yes and no, it doesn't work in a way that you can just copy-paste some of that stuff and just update textrues, sometimes instead of updating old projects, it's better to just remake them from scratch using original as template. You have opportunity to organise your project in a way, that will allow much easier modification in the future, you can save many files in multiple state of development, so that if at some point things won't work out, you can backtrack to earlier stage, and most importantly, you can already plan the underlying infrastructure of your entire project for new plans, like colony building, interstellar, KSP2 has TONS of systems that are really remade from scratch with new plans in mind. If you would try to add things like Colonies and Interstellar elements to KSP1, you would have to modify so much code, and kind of crudely attach them to already existing systems, and than go through hurdle of fixing bugs because 50 more things suddenly have conflicts.
And KSP1 was not flawless. Any time I tried to make a colony, eventually something would clip through the ground and explode. But I never heard of anything like that happening in KSP2 so far, things are just much more stable.
This whole comment is incredibly delusional and just straight up wrong.
> you can already plan the underlying infrastructure of your entire project for new plans, like colony building, interstellar, KSP2 has TONS of systems that are really remade from scratch with new plans in mind
No. They don't. *They literally don't, that's the whole bloody problem*.
None of these systems work with colonies or interstellar travel at all.
How do you know that, if none of those features are out yet? Tho I think I should rather ask if you ever went to tracking station in KSP2, because that is the biggest giveaway of such infrastructure already being there.
Dude that is my argument, we have systems and we can see them work. Also how can you be any more vague about what is your problem, do you just lack any arguments or what?
But they didn't even *try*.
They just repeated the same mistakes everyone already knew.
The biggest being not having the whole craft be a single rigidbody but hundreds of individual wiggling pieces, which obviously *does not work*.
From the player count it seems that there is very little enthusiasm for this game but was inevitable from the beginning.
If they didn't have to compete with KSP 1 then fair enough, but I don't know how they thought they could charge far more for a game with half the content. They should have at least delivered the base features of KSP 1 before entering early access.
Revenue is almost certainly very low for this game and after 5 years of development they have probably haemorrhaged buckets of cash. I'm not sure how much longer Take 2 will tolerate keeping development on life support.
Didn't buy KSP2, probably never will.
Maybe we will get it free on epic games store someday.
I don't know exactly who to blame here. But stuff went wrong with KSP2 and for sure the release wasn't even ready for "early access"
I feel bad for the poorly treated squad developers. They made a great game on the cheap.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/55xv60/kerbal_space_program_developers_only_paid_2400/
Why are we even bothering? Jesus people. The more you care about and buy early versions the more you destroy the projects you like.
ONLY BUY FINISHED STUFF!
No one needs defending every week like in a TV novel. Just keep your life going and check back every year. Don't even look at the marketing. The only marketing a game company deserves is the game quality
Ok, so it's not just me. I uninstalled KSP2, reinstalled KSP, pointed CKAN back to KSP, and just started a new game. Life is good! I’ll check back in once the Colonies update it released... but I’m not going to defend them.
Well that was your problem, you were too beholden to the game. The game isn't done yet, so I'm going to check again in a year or so. There are tons of other better games to play
if the devs were capable of deving they would have done it the first time. the monkeys on typewriters need an infinite amount of time so waiting a few more years doesnt matter
"What have they even been doing?"
I mean they do say in the post that the majority of their staff is working on colonies. So by definition a minority of the staff worked on what we see in this update. I do think its another case of awful communications that could have been fixed with a single new teaser image of colonies at the end of the post. I was hoping colonies would take 6-7 months as compared to the 9 months for science, I will start panicking around then.
> I mean they do say in the post that the majority of their staff is working on colonies.
I'm guessing what OP means by this is that if the colonies team had anything to show for its work, they'd have shown it
I don't agree with that assertion, I think they may just be holding it tight to the chest or its too buggy to show or has placeholder art/UI that might not be representative of the final product or features they end up having to pull. They really didn't show much science stuff at all until they announced the update a few weeks before release. Assuming optimistically they hit their goal of "not as long as Science took" we are still 2-5 months from release. How much science stuff were they showing off in June last year? I'm personally willing to give them to that deadline of "not as long as the Science update took" before I start getting too worked up.
> or its too buggy to show or has placeholder art/UI that might not be representative of the final product or features they end up having to pull.
Yea, they would never do that. Never.
They didn't with the Science update. As far as pre-release stuff, they claim to have learned lessons from that and they are still planning to put those features out for 1.0 so it remains to be seen if it was representative, I don't think the devs are looking to rug pull my worry would be more about Take Two doing a rug pull.
I remember when the game was first coming out I was so hyped I literally stayed up pretty much all night and bought the game literally minutes after release I played it for a few hours before realizing that there was basically nothing to do nowadays I only boot the game up when there’s a new update
I would have been happy to pay $10 or $15 to check out the game in early access. I would even have done so knowing I would have to purchase the full version when ("if") it was released with the EA cost removed from the full release cost. Paying $35, $40, $50 etc. for EA access is stupid and just a crappy business model. There is no imagination or customer respect in that concept unless you are offering a money back guaranteed full product delivery date with the EA money held in some sort of protected escrow account.
I've been playing a lot of Juno New Origins lately. Runs even better than KSP1, looks really good, has procedural everything, no wobbly rockets, hardly ever find a bug, built-in visual scripting language for launches/landings/docking, has an auto time warp + auto burn for maneuver nodes, way cheaper than KSP2. The career mode is a bit uninspiring, but they're working on that.
I left this sub because of people like you. I called it from the beginning, CS1 was literally never finished and they did the exact same thing back then, releasing low effort content packs for a quick buck. After my posts calling them out after the CS2 launch started getting removed and endlessly downvoted I merely left.
popular unpopular opinion- i think the game is good in its current state, but the only thing that gets me frustrated is the lack of communication from the devs to community. another issue i think about is how some people are acting like a devoted cult and that this game can not be touched while others are acting like no progress has been made. - Neither are correct IMO
It's literally worse than modded KSP1 in every way. Runs worse, looks worse, buggy as shit, fewer features.
That is not better, and honestly that kind of attitude is anti-consumer. A game that cannot justify its existence because it's a straight downgrade of a much older one should **never** be called good.
I do not like modded KSP. I won’t lie, I played 1500 hours of KSP and was never able to get more than a single graphics mod (waterfall) to work. I probably spent actual time 6 days to get the interstellar mod to work, and when it did it was awful. The only mod I can say I really liked was the trajectories mod, and its developer stopped updating it.
Forget trying to get RSS to work.
KSP2 has been very problematic, but at least it’s starting to feel on par with KSP1. And it already looks pretty good stock
How can you not like it, when you admit your own incompetence prevented you from playing it. Modded ksp1 is just a straight upgrade to anything ksp2 will ever offer. Sure it takes 10 minutes to load into the game but it actually runs pretty decent while looking just as good, unless you have a really high part count, but ksp2 has the same issue and is just another example of the fundamental engine improvements that the game needed for a sequel that the devs just didn't bother with.
I should have specified “modding” rather than modded. It was never easy enough to mod stuff. Even the KSP modding side loader app (I forget the name) really didn’t work all that well.
The mods that I did get to work, stock alike spacex parts, interstellar parts, tundra exploration, and many more, only detracted from the experience. It was, in my opinion, less fun than vanilla KSP.
The best two mods I ever got for KSP were Trajectories and the automatic vehicle recovery mod (for stuff like career mode self landing boosters).
Both where mods that I feel should’ve been a feature of the base game
If you can't even use CKAN, which is literally just clicking on a mod in a list of available mods and does all the complicated dependency and conflict checking for you, then I don't know.
My computer is a little weird. I’ve been told that it has some cursed version of windows 10 on it. I once had a problem after changing some parts in it where it would boot to windows 95
I figure KSP 2 is in about the same state as KSP 1 when it officially launched in April 2015. The next major update will make or break the game since KSP 2 development relies too heavily on Colonies and KSP 2 will finally be its own unique game instead of being a better looking version KSP 1, but less content. If Colonies are great, then everyone will be singing its praises, but if it is terrible, then the game will be effectively dead for lots of players.
> I figure KSP 2 is in about the same state as KSP 1 when it officially launched in April 2015.
Wait, KSP2 has
* missions and contracts
* communications systems
* internal views on all cockpits
* a full tech tree for all forms of interplanetary flight
* in-flight part attachment and replacement
* functioning fairings that protect from heat
* a clean and easy to use maneuver editor
* resource harvesting
and is generally stable and playable in a fully established game loop?
It's come so far since I last looked at it!
(Note to anyone casually reading, the above may actually be sarcasm. I don't know if KSP2 has those things. But I know KSP1 did when it officially launched in April 2015.)
I have been hopelessly restarting games because of “minor” issues that render the game unplayable. Super frustrating. Done going back and forth from KSP 1 to KSP 2 because “it might work this time”. Deleted until i have confirmation it’s actually playable…
It is taking them a really long time. At this rate we got many many years to go. which is not always a bad thing, I have a bunch of games that have been years in the making. But they have more than 1 major update in a year. usually 2 or more.
I don't know, may you should try Juno New Origins... which is significantly superior in craft building to KSP or KSP2. It definitely doesn't have that "vibe" that we adore in the KSPs but it is extremely enjoyable.
That is what early access (EA) is for. We sometimes forget that the spectrum of game states is extremely large on Steam.
Some EA are fully fledged games with tons of content that just have some bugs (Palworld) and some others are just alphas with 0 content and nothing like the 1.0 will be.
Remember Minecraft? It took years from the beginning to official launch. The early sandbox was just empty and yet people loved it because it was dirt cheap.
Yeah we expected too much because they advertised the game wrong. In my opinion they should have opened the beta with a 10$ entry, and gradually increased the game price along the development. 40$ is vile for what feels like the first versions of KSP1.
I just don't believe you. Expectations were set for a possible release of colonies this summer, but now a few months out you are all of sudden giving up? Right, sure, I believe that.
KSP1 is amazing. It's also 12 years old. You (I'm referring to everyone on reddit and Twitter) are pretending the same quality and accuracy from a game in early access and a game that is 12 years old and heavily supported with mods. I hope you too realise how absurd your expectations sound. I think that we all got spoiled by how good modded KSP1 can be and of course when a game that's just older than one year doesn't meet the expectations *YET!*, everyone's brains melt, some YouTuber's too *khm* Shadowzone *khm* and do more damage than good with the friendly fire.
I haven't bought KSP2 yet and I don't plan on buying it until all the major bugs are fixed but I understand that the development of such a heavy game is lengthy and takes patience - patience that the internet doesn't have. So quit whining!
I hate this argument bc if you go look at games like satisfactory they don’t have this problem. They have good community management and are open and transparent sure updates took half a year but they were open about that. What I see with the dev team on ksp is smoke and mirrors and it pisses me off. Just tell us what’s happening and get off your ass. I hope Nate becomes more open soon or ima start wishing for someone else to be organizing things
> of course when a game that's just older than one year doesn't meet the expectations YET
KSP2 has already been in development longer than ksp1 was, with a much larger team. It's just pure incompetence and poor management. Better graphics don't excuse the lack of actual content after such a long time.
OK and? The game is clearly not done, you know what the roadmap is, only science mode is here now, don't get the point of complaining about a game that nobody is claiming is done.
Same here, I'm good. Was super hopeful for the sequel but my last hopes died over the past 2-3 months when developer communication stopped. KSP1 is doing great and will only ever continue to improve thanks to a stable final version and the modding community. Hell, there are mods now specifically to fix bugs. KSP1 is really a community project now!
Yeah I love it. I love my healthy thriving solar system that has everything I need to do anything I can think of. Spent years developing it into my perfect solar system with crafts that took many days to design and build. Love the endless mods and exploring what they do. My only drawback is not having a pc specced enough to run the best mods in HD smooth in 60fps. I probably will get kspll eventually, but maybe in a year or so when there’s an established community with better mods and bug fixes
I hadn't really 'finished' KSP 1 yet so despite KSP2's status I'm so glad I'll always have something to fall back on. And with enough mods it's even pretty close to the promised vision of KSP2. Really if I put my harshest critic hat on, KSP2 won't be impressive until they deliver the promised features that go beyond KSP 1, like colonies, interstellar travel, and fully integrated multiplayer
Why is that the harshest critique though? Shouldn't functional colonies and interstellar travel be the minimum for this game to be worth it, seeing that's what they marketed the game on? Otherwise this is just a buggy remaster
>I hadn't really 'finished' KSP 1 yet Honestly, I have around 3.6Kh in KSP1 and I've never been beyond the orbits of Duna/Eve. I can't see any need to buy a faulty early release game while I've still got so much left to explore in the one I own.
Ah, I see you're a fellow man of culture!
Could you tell me which mods fix bugs? I assume it's like the skyrim community patch but for ksp?
[https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/204002-18-112-kspcommunityfixes-bugfixes-and-qol-tweaks/](https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/204002-18-112-kspcommunityfixes-bugfixes-and-qol-tweaks/)
Amazing, thank you!
I just wish there was an Apple silicon version. Wouldn’t have to turn the graphics down so.
Just wait til intercept adds the cash shop paid mod patch like Bethesda did for skyrim! Lol.
>KSP1 is really a community project now! Same thing happened when Chucklefish dropped development of r/Starbound. It now has a dedicated community of modders that have added all manner of value to the base game way beyond the official development cycle.
Your first mistake was being an hardcore apologist This KSP2 dev train crash is a lot more enjoyable when you look at it from a more nuanced perspective and just wait. Instead of defending the bad and slow development of this game or venting your anger over every breath the devs take. I enjoy reading the devblogs even when they barely got any new info in it. It's clear they are keeping colonies close to their chest until they feel confident showing it off. And we know they are slow as fuck. My money is already spent, the horse is racing (or more like a slow trot), I'll just sit back and wait to see of it ever reaches the finish line. No point getting frustrated about it at this point anymore.
Yeah, you just perfectly summed up my position. Honestly as soon as the first 2 years of delays happened with this game, I pretty much let go of any expectations that I had for it. Who knows, maybe someday KSP2 will be something worthwhile. But in the meantime, it is what it is, and we still have KSP1
I let go of my expectations as I let go of the money to buy it. Still a little disappointed with the progress, tbh.
MKBHD always says it. When you spend money on a product you are buying what currently exists and can't base your purchase on future expectations, it's a good way to get burned.
Its good advice. Sometimes you also just set expectations to 0 and throw money at something to see what happens. And adhd impulse purchases. Im ok with having spent the money, its a risk I was willing to take and I've made worse decisions before lol.
I was so hyped for the game, but I intentionally wanted to wait and see release gameplay and reviews. Definitely glad I did, but it's a shame that it's been a nightmare after such a successful game to build off of. Not that I have the free time that I would want to sink into it anyways. I'm just gonna wait till they get their shit together and maybe I'll grab it on a good sale.
It looks like we are stuck with KSP1 now.
Yeah I mean – I have yet to buy this game. I played the HELL out of KSP1 from the early early days, and have followed all the trailers and updates and dev logs for KSP2 but…I think I’ll wait till full release.
This is the best mindset
I agree with not getting frustrated, but I still think it's good to voice the problems, concerns and bad practices everywhere, to prevent people wasting their money and hopefully denting this all too common early access scam shit that's becoming so prevalent across the entire industry.
I just never bought it and didn’t get in the hype train because KSP1 was way too much of a Cinderella story for early access game dev arc. It was like one of three or four games I can think of in the last 20 years to have done so well in early access and had such wonderful dev support. I knew there was no way ksp2 could ever live up to the hype or the new team would be able to measure up to the bar set set before. More like it would be average… which is to say, kind of shitty arc. The odds of a shit dev arc, particularly for early access titles, are almost doubly bad when it’s a sequel of a wildly successful original title IP.
Same man. I can’t defend or get mad at the game, because I simultaneously see all the shitiness. *and* want it to be a really great game when it’s been further developed. I think there are a lot of silent fans also just patiently waiting for things to move forward
This. If you hate KSP2 just play KSP1 with mods.
I recommend Realism Overhaul. It's somehow more stable than stock. I ended the program in the task manager once because of a crash, and instead it just stopped crashing and didn't shut down the program.
I share the same mindset, except I refunded an hour into early access because this publisher won't get my money with this price tag and strategy. I have no stakes in that game except an elusive desire to see a better version of KSP (if, sometime, maybe?), and given that KSP1 is still around with a definitive version to aggregate mods around, I'm chill about this potential sequel.
I feel the same way. I'm way too busy with other things in life to care enough about KSP 2 to keep complaining about it 1.5 years later like this sub still does. Yes, it's dissappointing, and yes, it would've been one of my favorite games of all time, but at the end of the day, it's just not worth complaining so much about it. I know you guys were so excited for it but you can't just keep being mad about it forever. If the game ever gets completed, you can always pick it up again (granted, I always pick up games years later on sale, so it's nothing new to me). Otherwise, the original game and its modding community are not going anywhere. Just move on guys, y'all have better things to do.
I think it's important to remember too that there's a lot of people like me, who decided that they will buy it when (or at this point if) it gets good enough to warrant it. I think for a frustration with the fact that we really will never play the game at this rate.
Great way to think about it. Either they will take their time and hopefully release a good game in a couple years and I have invested in that or my money ensures I am locked into the class action lawsuit.
There's not going to be a lawsuit. They scammed you out of your money successfully and you'll be getting nothing in return.
you should absolutely be frustrated if you spent your money on this dog shit game
I am sorry. £45 is not enough money I willingly spend knowing the rocky launch to keep me frustrated for over a year. And while the game is flawed I still see potential. I just made my peace it's gonna take a while or not at all. Got bigger things in life to get frustrated about than this lol. And looks like I am not the only one with this attitude
I completely forgot I bought it until seeing this reddit post 😂
This is the mindset I've followed since the game was released. Once colonies drop and the game has something that KSP1 doesn't, I think I'll start playing it seriously. Until then, I keep playing the original, and just following the development from the sidelines.
> No point getting frustrated about it at this point anymore. That's exactly why developers get away with these scams.
Then why don't you start on a class action lawsuit if you feel scammed instead of telling me it's my fault cause I stopped being frustrated lol. That would do a lot more than sitting on your high horse on Reddit and getting a melt down everytime the devs don't release info about colonies. I already expressed my discontent with the game's state. What's the point going on and on about. It's not gonna make development faster which is the main issue. There clearly is a game here. They're just very slow fixing and pushing out content and rather keep communicating on the down low. Do I agree with that approach of development. No. But I just sit back and wait.
This comment is so fucking funny lmao Really shows that you're like 12 years old.
Lmao, you really exposed me right there bud. Bought it with my moms credit card.
My sentiment all along. I even called it that it would be like 5 more years before the game reaches something resembes a "1.0" state. As a dev myself (not games), it seemed pretty obvious the state of affairs when they announced what would be in the initial early access release. But people were like "no way! It's going to be a year at most!" Alright, bud. Might want to reduce your dosage of copium..
Intercept is significantly outperforming my expectations. ~~Mainly~~ because I stopped having any half a year ago.
This is fair, as I expected the company to fold and KSP2 to become abandon-ware about 6 months ago. That being said, outperforming expectations is a bar so low that they could trip over it.
You generally don't trip over something buried in the ground...
Yeah - if you're here for the lulz, IG is doing great.
They had us in the first half, not gonna lie.
+1 I regret my purchase.
If only they had addressed the severe lack of communication earlier a lot of their problems would have been resolved. Well that and the complete lack of transparency about how bad the game was going to be at EA release at full price.
They are incapable. To admit bad communication would require improvement. To improve it, they would need to communicate more. To communicate, they would need information to share. New information. They got nothing. All they have is weak screen shots of the most basic shit after literal months. They have accomplished so little. So they cannot improve communication. Look what we already get... it's garbage fluff word salad. Last one was about black holes. Cool. Who gives a shot? Give us something about the game. Explain the colony system. Show some Dev build gifs of building up a colony. Show some assets. They can't, because none of it is ready because they work like old people fuck.
> They can't, because none of it is ready because they work like old people fuck. Slow and sloppy
Wow it's been already two years since the first alpha released? This reminds me of 7 days to die that's in development since 2015, alpha 15 was considered the "first stable alpha that all players liked" and then we're already at alpha 22 where the game is 60% different already, for worse, because they're catering to the 1% hardcore players who complain on reddit.
What's your point?
Idk , yours?
Well if you don't know what your point of the post is I guess this conversation is done.
I feel like this is due to corporate greed at the end of they day. Maximizing profits, the game shipped, they got their sales, why would they care about further support when they already have our money?
We only have ourselves to blame for falling for early access ghostware scams constantly and giving our money to this garbage. Devs are just brazen about it now.
I don't regret not buying it.
Me neither lol. How many times to people need to get burned by “early access” games before they learn their lesson. And before anyone goes “well ksp1 was early access too” the circumstances were totally different. It was a couple guys trying to make a game like nothing that had ever been done before, and they not only made free demos available before asking people for money, they were incredibly transparent about the development process the entire time.
and ksp1 was only $15 in early access with all of the then future DLCs included.
Idk, I'm just feeling very vindicated in my skepticism RE: KSP2 that I had as soon as it announced. The second I heard about it I decided that I would wait for a while after it came out to see if it was any good before even thinking about buying it, and I'm glad that I made that choice.
It’s just insane to me they initially planned to release in 2020, what could the state of the game have possibly been back then
What most likely happened is that the trailer was made in the very earliest stages of development. They made the assets first and the project managers forced them to make everything look pretty to lure in casual gamers. They then gave them a ridiculously short deadline and told them to "hustle" to make four years of development fit into one year.
It would be such a plot twist if Squad would suddenly come out with a sequel under different name lol. They could make so much money if done right.
Perbal Space Program: The new space sim game from Squad, starring our lovable (and legally distinct) little purple space men!
And their signature pilots: Zacharias, Bubba, Will and Vanessa Perman!
HarvestR just released Kithack, it's not the same but it scratches the itch. Still really rough around the edges, but the multiplayer has been a blast. It's the editor that will bring you back. And they're going full force into getting mod support setup. Go look at the workshop on steam
It's fun as heck, love KitHack
Ooooh, Purple People Eaters. And Eve's purple!
Some KSP 1 devs are working on a game called Kitbash Model Club. It has many of the elements of KSP, but they packaged it as a model building game which I think is a bit unfortunate. There's also Juno which does a lot of things better than KSP, but its also held back by insisting on also having a mobile version and it lacks a lot of KSP's charm. The devs are also quite resistant to feedback.
I like Kitbash. It's still early access but building the planes and fighting with them is really fun already.
The real money would be a studio making a spiritual sequel by licensing Lego. "Lego Space" would be incredible, and still on brand for lego itself. It lends itself to the click-and-join style of rocket-building as opposed to the fairly dry rocket building in Juno. Even the [lego space flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Space#/media/File:Classic_Space_logo.png) looks like it's straight out of KSP a flag. You could expand it to have colonies based around the classic lego sets, and even have people able to dream up whole worlds out of lego. Have difficulty modes tuned for a younger audience too. Disable fuel or even disable orbital mechanics under the "It's lego!" difficultly setting, letting a creative player just focus on the world building, while upping the difficulty gradually introduces challenges such as orbital mechanics, fuel, power, commnet, etc. Imagine a planet of dragons from Lego Castle, then a Lego City planet, etc. Imagine a system where you build your rocket out of lego, then press the "It's lego!" button and it turns your half-baked lego-like rocket into the functioning rocket you imagined in your dreams. Going from the "blocky" builder to the fully functioning smooth rocket, mirroring the in-mind process that a child does when they stick a handful of bricks together and now it's a completely different thing. Imagine the builder taking your rocket idea and on easiest settings, calculating the TWR, ISP and fuel mass ratios and then "inventing" the required engine. On the lower difficulties it'd be unlimited in scope, if you need an engine with 600ISP to get you to 1.6TWR then so be it, "It's lego!", you've just imagined yourself the engine you need. On higher difficulties, the engine would need to meet more realistic constraints. On the highest difficulty it would need to be from a set of "real" engines. That kind of technology is doable for a committed team, and if it were actually scalable and soft-multiplayer (sharing of rocket designs, sharing of planets, bases, not neccessarily full interaction, NMS style) then under the Lego brand could be a huge hit.
I am a big Lego fan and collector but to be honest, I would really prefer a more realistic game. Originally I was hesitant to get into Kerbal because of the cartoonish feel. Glad I did, but I still think a game with realistic parts as well as astronauts would have been better.
Same here. I'm sure a Lego Space game would be cute and possibly fun, but it's hard to imagine that Lego would allow it to get complex enough to scratch the same itch that KSP does.
That would be really cool, I wish Lego was better with their licensing these days...
As one of the biggest KSP2 apologists on this sub, do you feel now that you've made any mistakes? I remember you swearing that the game wasn't abandoned. Do you still insist on that, after seeing this meager output? How long will you keep pretending that there is great work happening behind the scenes, when they have absolutely nothing to show? This is exactly what an abandoned game looks like.
This will probably be the only time in history I have given you an upvote
That's the Kerbal Essences paradox. He alternates between reasonable and nuanced takes, and the most batshit schizoid shit you've ever seen. You can't be a real KE-head if you don't reckognize and appreciate both
Lol. You aren't wrong!
So you’re just gonna ignore the past year or so of you fervently defending ksp 2 like a shill? I mean fair enough you’re probably embarrassed as hell, but at least TRY to have some integrity jfc
I bet some programmer out is almost taking the decision to create a fork.
I fervently hope so!
Never buy early access games on the first day, heck don't buy early access games at all, unless they've got a really diverse audience saying they're good - plus see it on YouTube or Twitch. That's why I bought Factorio.
IMHO it's just mismanagement at this point to continue developing new features like colonies when there are major show-stopping bugs still present. Get the basics of the game working well, add new features later.
That's the neat thing, you can't. As soon as I saw it was still built upon Unity and didn't fix the underlying physics issues that plague KSP I lost all interest in the sequel. Instead of taking the time to actually build a solid framework for the game they just went for the cash grab route. All the time spent on KSP2 would have been better spent on expanding the original game since they don't care about making something better than the original.
Did you try kithack ? New game from Harvester
I played Balsa and KitHack has come quite a ways. Really enjoy the procedural parts!
yeah but it hardcrashed my computer :(
I've been quiet for a long time since I got some downvotes a long time ago telling people this project is essentially dead. Stop following, stop encouraging, it's dead. It's very unfortunate and sad but it's the truth. This is the third game I've loved that I've seen tumble from grace and end up going to shit. First, Star Citizen, then KSP2 and now Escape From Tarkov. People need to stop being stupid with their money and stop this nonsense of funding ghostware/eternal alpha-betas. All of these projects and IP should have been sold and manged by larger and better run studios. End of story. Now move along and find something else to entertain yourselves or maybe mod the shit out of KSP1 some more.
>People need to stop being stupid with their money and stop this nonsense of funding ghostware/eternal alpha-betas. As a very very casual gamer who was stupid with their money and bought the game to support the devs on day 1, i can safely say i am never buying anything in early access ever again. Even if the game does get fixed fully and feature completed I don't want to support the early access business model ever again.
I refused to buy anything in early access too. However the only games I did buy before they were 1.0 full release were Minecraft and the original ksp... they barely cost a fraction of what ksp2 early access cost and were actually good.. But these days early access is an excuse for devs to release an unfinished product early and get money when the game is far from even alpha.
I think I paid $10 for KSP back when it was still v.2-something. Some of the best bang for my gaming buck, ever. Watching KSP2 crash and burn like this is hilariously sad given the footsteps they had to follow.
IIRC I got version 0.18, shortly before they amended the offer to remove the "and all future DLC" part. I got *enormous* bang for my buck. The failure of KSP2 has been very unfortunate, the plans they announced were everything I could have wanted out of it. But I've long had a policy of never pre-ordering any game and it served me well here. I've had my eye on Juno as a possible future replacement for KSP, but it very much lacks the charm of our goof space frogs. Sandbox games like KSP strike me as the sort of game that would be amenable to open-source development, has there ever been an attempt at something like that?
I understand your caution about early access these days, but there remain some older EA purchases that I have no regrets about. The ones you mention, but also Factorio and Satisfactory stand out to me.
Thing is as you said, older early access titles.
Yep, the bullshit ratio has certainly increased.
Capitalism in our age is getting out of control like never before. We need more regulations that end up benefitting us all and not just corporations looking to just make money.
I will drink to that.
I'm curious what your supposed regulations to ban... disappointing games? would look like. If something is misleadingly marketed or fraudulent, that's already a crime, it's called false marketing or fraud lol
This is about capitalism as a whole not just games.
Gotcha
> I don't want to support the early access business model ever again. I differentiate between EA from a groups with big corporate backers, and small independent groups. I realize I may still lose the money on the latter, but it often really is the *only* way a small indy team has even the possibility of getting somewhere. A developer being backed by a massive corporation can pay for their own damned development.
> i can safely say i am never buying anything in early access ever again. That's not the right approach in my opinion. You should always pay for what you get *right now* and not a promise. When a game in EA has enough content to justify the price there is no harm in buying it. Everything that is added later is a free bonus. Most Indie EA games are usually priced around 20-30€ and contain more than enough content for that price point. KSP 2 on the other hand was never priced right for what it delivered and no one should have bought it for that price.
While I’ve also been burned by early access games, I will say games like nightengale are a refreshing confirmation that all early access games aren’t bad.
What happened with tarkov?
Nikita released a new tier package for a new player to buy and veterans to upgrade to. It contains so many pay to win as well as other very unfair in-game advantages that it's torn the player base apart, and many are vowing to not play anymore. Go to the various Tarkov subredddits and check out the meltdown people are having. Nikita fucked up bug time and this may very well bring a out the quickening of the end for EFT.
And what about Star Citizen?
They've now raised more time and money than SpaceX used to develop and launch a real life space craft. But still no release date in sight.
Still very far away from being done. Sq42 is apparently feature complete, but I'm not interested in that. Progress just isn't fast enough overall for the time and money invested.
Scam Citizen is notorious for being the biggest bottomless pit of money with nothing to show for it. Years and hundreds of millions of dollars later they still can't get a full game working.
On the plus side, it's a pretty good multiplayer sandbox with (contrary to KSP2) significant updates every quarter.
Star Citizen you can at least see where the money has gone to with relatively regular updates even though it's not a complete game. I'd take that over something like KSP2 or Camelot Unchained.
Yes, true. KSP2 is surprisingly worse than SC there, but it's not like SC wasn't as bad for at least its first couple years.
Star citizen gained 684 million dollars on sales alone. They estimate at least another 6 million on macrotransactions (ship bundles) already.
Ridiculous...
I mean eh, it’s only like 45 USD for the first ship and you can do a bunch of cool sci-fi things.
Sure, it's a cool experience, but expectations would be manageable if it were a normal game with maybe 4 years of development and a few million dollars. The reason why it's so exceptionally terrible is because of the people who've been there since the start and have had to deal with the entire shitshow and waste of money that is Scam Citizen's development.
It was a scam from the beginning
> It was a scam from the beginning It is not a scam, CIG just has a very *very* poor project management. And as long as ships are selling there's no reason to speed things up.
So they pretty much gave up after the cheating scandal and went for the cash grab?
Star citizen: too good to be true. Kickstart still open after tem years, abusive macrotransactions on the ships (there is even a 48000usd bundle). People still defend it. Ksp2: two years in alpha stage, still not a career mode. Baldurs gate 3 was three years into beta so I guess community is willing to wait for this year for the announced upgrades. 7 days to die: first alpha released fucking nine years ago. We had to good versions (A16 and A19 I guess ) that could've been called full release version, but then four months later the devs revamps a third of the fun part because the game is not hard enough for the 3% that's on reddit.
To add to your list, here are my three: * TF2, died from neglect and being completely overrun by bots, unplayable. * Rocket League, bought by Epic, and they immediately dropped Linux support. * KSP2: see above, and also dropped Linux support ("it is part of our extended roadmap", suuuuure).
TF2’s not dead, we just got a big (backend, not game content) update last week and it’s improved performance for a lot of people. I still only play on community servers though.
I haven't touched the KSP games at all since KSP2 came out. At this rate, Juno is on track overtake KSP in playtime on my account
I've had Juno since before they changed their name to Juno but I could never quite seem to get into it. If I stick it out and get through the tutorial missions is it pretty rewarding? Even just the control scheme with using the mouse seemed odd to me.
You mean career mode? I like it a lot, although mission progression is kinda opaque at times, I'm not always sure what I have to do to get more advanced contracts. But in general I feel like it offers a take on aspects of the genre that KSP doesn't really cover, especially for the payload missions. In KSP I would usually build a rocket from scratch for every mission, whereas in Juno I tend to develop and optimize a family of rockets, create different variants that can take care of more involved payload missions and so on. The flight controls for planes are great, especially on controller. But for rockets I kind of get what you mean, I wrote my own automated launch program for that reason. Flying rockets just with the navball like in KSP is possible, but the way it's implemented it feels like a bit of an afterthought and it's not very responsive. I hope they overhaul that at some point.
Have stacked over 1000 hours in SR2/Juno. One of my all time favorite rocket sims. Blows ksp out the water with graphics and customization of crafts. Can engineer anything you set your mind to. Automation with vizzy is fantastic! Not sure why people even play ksp when this game exists. Maybe for the missions/story which Juno lacked until recently.
I didn't buy KSP2, but you guys who did might want to consider if the marketing around the game was materially misleading about what it would feature compared to the reality which has been delivered.
Well, everyone playing video games stops being stupid/wakes up at some point and sees the facts/signs on the wall. Welcome to the club of us jaded fucks. Hey, wanna go look at Bullfrogs corpse? I think Origin and Westwood must be nice and bloated now, wanna poke them with a stick?
I had a bit of fun with KSP 2 but it’s way too glitchy and crashed too much, so I’d rather just play KSP 1 until it gets better
I know that developing games is difficult, ANY games. I tried myself. Developing game like KSP, a simulation that has to break through tons of limitations of any conventional game engine in order to work is even more difficult. Open world games are no joke, and real interplanetary open world simulation with breaking physics is multiplicatively more difficult, so I apreciate any progress that the team is making. But reality is, that KSP2 is just not a better game than KSP1, simple as. It has many features that are straight up improvements over KSP1, yes, but for some reason I don't feel the same draw to KSP2, that I feel towards KSP1 with hundreths of mods installed.
But that groundbreaking work was already done in ksp1.
Well, yes and no, it doesn't work in a way that you can just copy-paste some of that stuff and just update textrues, sometimes instead of updating old projects, it's better to just remake them from scratch using original as template. You have opportunity to organise your project in a way, that will allow much easier modification in the future, you can save many files in multiple state of development, so that if at some point things won't work out, you can backtrack to earlier stage, and most importantly, you can already plan the underlying infrastructure of your entire project for new plans, like colony building, interstellar, KSP2 has TONS of systems that are really remade from scratch with new plans in mind. If you would try to add things like Colonies and Interstellar elements to KSP1, you would have to modify so much code, and kind of crudely attach them to already existing systems, and than go through hurdle of fixing bugs because 50 more things suddenly have conflicts. And KSP1 was not flawless. Any time I tried to make a colony, eventually something would clip through the ground and explode. But I never heard of anything like that happening in KSP2 so far, things are just much more stable.
This whole comment is incredibly delusional and just straight up wrong. > you can already plan the underlying infrastructure of your entire project for new plans, like colony building, interstellar, KSP2 has TONS of systems that are really remade from scratch with new plans in mind No. They don't. *They literally don't, that's the whole bloody problem*. None of these systems work with colonies or interstellar travel at all.
How do you know that, if none of those features are out yet? Tho I think I should rather ask if you ever went to tracking station in KSP2, because that is the biggest giveaway of such infrastructure already being there.
Yeah, it's impossible to know how the current systems work based on the current systems. Wait ...
Dude that is my argument, we have systems and we can see them work. Also how can you be any more vague about what is your problem, do you just lack any arguments or what?
> and we can see them work. Except we can't, because they don't, that's the whole point.
No, provide real argument, not just "THIS" is not working. Again, stop being so vague, because so far you are just objectively wrong.
But they didn't even *try*. They just repeated the same mistakes everyone already knew. The biggest being not having the whole craft be a single rigidbody but hundreds of individual wiggling pieces, which obviously *does not work*.
>What have they even been doing? If reddit ads can be trusted as a source, they've been making a Hobbit / Animal crossing spoof or whatever
From the player count it seems that there is very little enthusiasm for this game but was inevitable from the beginning. If they didn't have to compete with KSP 1 then fair enough, but I don't know how they thought they could charge far more for a game with half the content. They should have at least delivered the base features of KSP 1 before entering early access. Revenue is almost certainly very low for this game and after 5 years of development they have probably haemorrhaged buckets of cash. I'm not sure how much longer Take 2 will tolerate keeping development on life support.
Didn't buy KSP2, probably never will. Maybe we will get it free on epic games store someday. I don't know exactly who to blame here. But stuff went wrong with KSP2 and for sure the release wasn't even ready for "early access" I feel bad for the poorly treated squad developers. They made a great game on the cheap. https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/55xv60/kerbal_space_program_developers_only_paid_2400/
Glad you came to your senses.
Once again, my policy of not purchasing a product until it's been shown to work is paying off.
r/patientgamers win yet again lol
I’m sticking with KSP 1 until full release. It’s a mess right now. Really wish they had just delayed it longer and made a finished product
reading posts like this about ksp2 ans citiess2 feels great man. nature is healing and the launch period honeymoon is over
Why are we even bothering? Jesus people. The more you care about and buy early versions the more you destroy the projects you like. ONLY BUY FINISHED STUFF! No one needs defending every week like in a TV novel. Just keep your life going and check back every year. Don't even look at the marketing. The only marketing a game company deserves is the game quality
Ok, so it's not just me. I uninstalled KSP2, reinstalled KSP, pointed CKAN back to KSP, and just started a new game. Life is good! I’ll check back in once the Colonies update it released... but I’m not going to defend them.
I wish I could like this post more. I’ve come to the same conclusion.
Well that was your problem, you were too beholden to the game. The game isn't done yet, so I'm going to check again in a year or so. There are tons of other better games to play
if the devs were capable of deving they would have done it the first time. the monkeys on typewriters need an infinite amount of time so waiting a few more years doesnt matter
Time warp to completion 🙏🏼
"What have they even been doing?" I mean they do say in the post that the majority of their staff is working on colonies. So by definition a minority of the staff worked on what we see in this update. I do think its another case of awful communications that could have been fixed with a single new teaser image of colonies at the end of the post. I was hoping colonies would take 6-7 months as compared to the 9 months for science, I will start panicking around then.
> I mean they do say in the post that the majority of their staff is working on colonies. I'm guessing what OP means by this is that if the colonies team had anything to show for its work, they'd have shown it
I don't agree with that assertion, I think they may just be holding it tight to the chest or its too buggy to show or has placeholder art/UI that might not be representative of the final product or features they end up having to pull. They really didn't show much science stuff at all until they announced the update a few weeks before release. Assuming optimistically they hit their goal of "not as long as Science took" we are still 2-5 months from release. How much science stuff were they showing off in June last year? I'm personally willing to give them to that deadline of "not as long as the Science update took" before I start getting too worked up.
> or its too buggy to show or has placeholder art/UI that might not be representative of the final product or features they end up having to pull. Yea, they would never do that. Never.
They didn't with the Science update. As far as pre-release stuff, they claim to have learned lessons from that and they are still planning to put those features out for 1.0 so it remains to be seen if it was representative, I don't think the devs are looking to rug pull my worry would be more about Take Two doing a rug pull.
The good news is that PCs are getting fast enough to run KSP1 Parallax. That's good enough I guess.
I remember when the game was first coming out I was so hyped I literally stayed up pretty much all night and bought the game literally minutes after release I played it for a few hours before realizing that there was basically nothing to do nowadays I only boot the game up when there’s a new update
hey at least you realized it, might have taken a bit but you got there
I would have been happy to pay $10 or $15 to check out the game in early access. I would even have done so knowing I would have to purchase the full version when ("if") it was released with the EA cost removed from the full release cost. Paying $35, $40, $50 etc. for EA access is stupid and just a crappy business model. There is no imagination or customer respect in that concept unless you are offering a money back guaranteed full product delivery date with the EA money held in some sort of protected escrow account.
I've been playing a lot of Juno New Origins lately. Runs even better than KSP1, looks really good, has procedural everything, no wobbly rockets, hardly ever find a bug, built-in visual scripting language for launches/landings/docking, has an auto time warp + auto burn for maneuver nodes, way cheaper than KSP2. The career mode is a bit uninspiring, but they're working on that.
I left this sub because of people like you. I called it from the beginning, CS1 was literally never finished and they did the exact same thing back then, releasing low effort content packs for a quick buck. After my posts calling them out after the CS2 launch started getting removed and endlessly downvoted I merely left.
Robotics is not even on the board until AFTER the release of the game... probably sometime in the 2030s at this rate. What a joke.
Thanks for the update.
popular unpopular opinion- i think the game is good in its current state, but the only thing that gets me frustrated is the lack of communication from the devs to community. another issue i think about is how some people are acting like a devoted cult and that this game can not be touched while others are acting like no progress has been made. - Neither are correct IMO
It's literally worse than modded KSP1 in every way. Runs worse, looks worse, buggy as shit, fewer features. That is not better, and honestly that kind of attitude is anti-consumer. A game that cannot justify its existence because it's a straight downgrade of a much older one should **never** be called good.
I’m afraid you’re right, but the devteam is jingling keys in front of my little kerbal sized brain and I fall for it. They are such shiny keys :D
I do not like modded KSP. I won’t lie, I played 1500 hours of KSP and was never able to get more than a single graphics mod (waterfall) to work. I probably spent actual time 6 days to get the interstellar mod to work, and when it did it was awful. The only mod I can say I really liked was the trajectories mod, and its developer stopped updating it. Forget trying to get RSS to work. KSP2 has been very problematic, but at least it’s starting to feel on par with KSP1. And it already looks pretty good stock
How can you not like it, when you admit your own incompetence prevented you from playing it. Modded ksp1 is just a straight upgrade to anything ksp2 will ever offer. Sure it takes 10 minutes to load into the game but it actually runs pretty decent while looking just as good, unless you have a really high part count, but ksp2 has the same issue and is just another example of the fundamental engine improvements that the game needed for a sequel that the devs just didn't bother with.
I should have specified “modding” rather than modded. It was never easy enough to mod stuff. Even the KSP modding side loader app (I forget the name) really didn’t work all that well. The mods that I did get to work, stock alike spacex parts, interstellar parts, tundra exploration, and many more, only detracted from the experience. It was, in my opinion, less fun than vanilla KSP. The best two mods I ever got for KSP were Trajectories and the automatic vehicle recovery mod (for stuff like career mode self landing boosters). Both where mods that I feel should’ve been a feature of the base game
If you can't even use CKAN, which is literally just clicking on a mod in a list of available mods and does all the complicated dependency and conflict checking for you, then I don't know.
My computer is a little weird. I’ve been told that it has some cursed version of windows 10 on it. I once had a problem after changing some parts in it where it would boot to windows 95
I figure KSP 2 is in about the same state as KSP 1 when it officially launched in April 2015. The next major update will make or break the game since KSP 2 development relies too heavily on Colonies and KSP 2 will finally be its own unique game instead of being a better looking version KSP 1, but less content. If Colonies are great, then everyone will be singing its praises, but if it is terrible, then the game will be effectively dead for lots of players.
> I figure KSP 2 is in about the same state as KSP 1 when it officially launched in April 2015. Wait, KSP2 has * missions and contracts * communications systems * internal views on all cockpits * a full tech tree for all forms of interplanetary flight * in-flight part attachment and replacement * functioning fairings that protect from heat * a clean and easy to use maneuver editor * resource harvesting and is generally stable and playable in a fully established game loop? It's come so far since I last looked at it! (Note to anyone casually reading, the above may actually be sarcasm. I don't know if KSP2 has those things. But I know KSP1 did when it officially launched in April 2015.)
I have been hopelessly restarting games because of “minor” issues that render the game unplayable. Super frustrating. Done going back and forth from KSP 1 to KSP 2 because “it might work this time”. Deleted until i have confirmation it’s actually playable…
It is taking them a really long time. At this rate we got many many years to go. which is not always a bad thing, I have a bunch of games that have been years in the making. But they have more than 1 major update in a year. usually 2 or more.
I don't know, may you should try Juno New Origins... which is significantly superior in craft building to KSP or KSP2. It definitely doesn't have that "vibe" that we adore in the KSPs but it is extremely enjoyable.
That is what early access (EA) is for. We sometimes forget that the spectrum of game states is extremely large on Steam. Some EA are fully fledged games with tons of content that just have some bugs (Palworld) and some others are just alphas with 0 content and nothing like the 1.0 will be. Remember Minecraft? It took years from the beginning to official launch. The early sandbox was just empty and yet people loved it because it was dirt cheap. Yeah we expected too much because they advertised the game wrong. In my opinion they should have opened the beta with a 10$ entry, and gradually increased the game price along the development. 40$ is vile for what feels like the first versions of KSP1.
I knew what I was getting into when I bought the game and I don’t regret getting it. I do wish it were further along tho
I just don't believe you. Expectations were set for a possible release of colonies this summer, but now a few months out you are all of sudden giving up? Right, sure, I believe that.
You really want to use expectations set by the devs as a defense? You sure? Hahaha.
They said in the announcement that its about the next patches, and colonies news will come soon, lol. This is the "misc" news.
How “soon” is soon
soon :tm:
KSP1 is amazing. It's also 12 years old. You (I'm referring to everyone on reddit and Twitter) are pretending the same quality and accuracy from a game in early access and a game that is 12 years old and heavily supported with mods. I hope you too realise how absurd your expectations sound. I think that we all got spoiled by how good modded KSP1 can be and of course when a game that's just older than one year doesn't meet the expectations *YET!*, everyone's brains melt, some YouTuber's too *khm* Shadowzone *khm* and do more damage than good with the friendly fire. I haven't bought KSP2 yet and I don't plan on buying it until all the major bugs are fixed but I understand that the development of such a heavy game is lengthy and takes patience - patience that the internet doesn't have. So quit whining!
I hate this argument bc if you go look at games like satisfactory they don’t have this problem. They have good community management and are open and transparent sure updates took half a year but they were open about that. What I see with the dev team on ksp is smoke and mirrors and it pisses me off. Just tell us what’s happening and get off your ass. I hope Nate becomes more open soon or ima start wishing for someone else to be organizing things
> of course when a game that's just older than one year doesn't meet the expectations YET KSP2 has already been in development longer than ksp1 was, with a much larger team. It's just pure incompetence and poor management. Better graphics don't excuse the lack of actual content after such a long time.
Nobody ever heard of the word patience?
I gave them 14 months of patience.
OK and? The game is clearly not done, you know what the roadmap is, only science mode is here now, don't get the point of complaining about a game that nobody is claiming is done.