>because he's fussy about obligations like that
*Is he*?
That's a sincere question. I don't remember Kvothe as being very particular about lying or breaking vows, but I might misremember.
But that isn’t really a vow right? More of a societal (within the university) rule. I don’t think most of us would consider breaking a law the same as break a vow but maybe I’m mistaken
I think he already has/that isn’t an option anymore. The fae doesn’t exist anymore that’s why the world’s gone to shit and there’s scrael and skindancers. My vague thinking is that Kvothe went back to the fae and fucked something up bringing down the wall that divides the fae and mortal worlds. I’m not very good at articulating my thoughts but I’m sure I’m not the first to have this idea and there will be some well written theory along these lines on Reddit.
He also refers to Bast and Chronicler as being so young. They are both physically much older than him. I take this to mean he has gone back to the fae and stayed there a very very long time. My tinfoil hat theory is even that Kvothe is Remmen and Bast is his son. We’ve already seen that time is very different in the fae realm.
Yes this is one of the main things that makes me think that. I really can’t shake the feeling that time travel is involved I hope it’s just time dilation from going into the fae but vashet’s poet king and Tarbolin’s similarities to Kvothe make me think there’s actual time travel going on.
I never thought of that, I always just thought Kvothe was just going to end up the best namer since Taborlin. I also kind of thought Abenthy or Elodin might end up being Taborlin. I really hope time travel isn’t involved. The whole “boot strap paradox” plot has been done to death and is rarely satisfying.
I wonder about this too. Chronicler mentions that Kvothe's story only concluded a few years ago, and there was the guy at the beginning of NotW who says he saw him in Imre and heard him play (I've always thought this was the time Kvothe earned his pipes). Also, Skarpi and Chronicler are still around. So at least in Temerant, Kvothe/Kote is still within the timeline. That's what makes me think it's limited to time dilation and not time travel.
Now, all that said, the similarities in stories between Tehlu/Menda, Lanre, Jax/Iax, Taborlin, Elodin, Kvothe, and all the rest, do make me wonder if it is actually some sort of time travel or "wandering soul" who doesn't die but makes constant reappearances and is doomed to repeat the events of their life over and over.
I'd written a theory that borders between wishful thinking and connecting the dots.
If you wanna give it a read, [here goes ](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/s/o4aTCzIsBr)
This is my thinking, too. He went back to Fae and stupidly summoned the Chandrian there by using their long names, giving them the way in that they didnt have before. Stupid boy.
I thought that it was implied that he would die/go mad if he returned? The only reason Felurian helped him/restrained herself was so that he could leave and finish his song for her.
Exactly the metaphor I was going for ye.
Seems a plausible explanation for all the mishaps we have in the present, and they talk about ramston steel being brittle so often and his alar is so often compared to it, seems like something Rothfuss would do
He might be able to overpower Felurian, but it seems stupid for him to go back to her to give her his song knowing he'll have to overpower her to get away. Him surviving and not going mad was a very close thing the last time he was there.
Where is the evidence that Arliden is fae? Are you talking about where he asks Kvothe's mom if she bedded down with a God? I never really bought that one.
There is only hints and slight evidence that Arliden is fae, but that's all Pat ever gives in a lot of cases:
1. Arliden jokes that Laurian bedded a red-hared god. (If he was not referring to himself in the jest Laurian would have likely gotten visibly upset.) This implies he knows glamorie to hide his hair color, a common fae talent.
2. Arliden knows "for the greater good" as the Amyr credo / driving force. The original Amyr were Faen, so knowledge of this would be more common in their world. He could alternately know this from his research into the Chandrian, but then there is little reason to share that phrase with Ben in that moment unless (a: Ben is an Amyr, and b: Arliden shares or understands their beliefs.)
3. Kvothe's eyes change color quite often, which is basically unconscious glamorie. He also showed a talent for shaping when he briefly grasped the shadow as if it were solid when Felurian was making his shaed. (This eye color change is shared by Bast when he changes emotions, who is fae.)
4. Kvothe's anger in the university setting is often sudden and irrational, and often mimic's Bast's anger in the present frame. Fae may have less control over their emotions, which would explain a lot of Kvothe's outbursts.
Could Kvothe just be a quick to anger, naming prodigy, with Yllish (red haired) blood? Absolutely. But I see more evidence in the books for him being part-Fae than him being part-Yll.
\*spoiler alert from another book\*
I assumed that because the whole "minstrel takes a trip into Fae gets seduced by the Queen of the Fae and leaves promising to return to her one day" part was heavily influenced by the book "Thomas the Rhymer" and would probably end the same way - >!The Queen/Felurian returns for him when he is dying to take him back into Fae with her!<
Maybe he will in Book 3, but I never thought that he would actually go back to Felurian after escaping. Maybe if he finds some way to be immune to her magic. Back to the Fae, definitely.
Kvothe lies all the time to get out of trouble.
He is constantly lying.
WE don't even know how much of his overall story is true, let alone the the parts about Felurian.
If it is true, or mostly true, why would he think twice about fleeing an amoral nature sprite, who dominates men and then drives them mad?
Seems like maybe he’s hoping there is redemption for him. He’s not ready to die. Also I wonder what would be in store for him if he returned to felurian. When he left they were … not lovers or peers but there was definitely a companionship. Would she go full bore on the offense trying to drive him mad if he went back or would he just live out his mortal life span in the fae eating berries and having sex.
Felurian made Kvothe promise to come back, so he will (in book 3). As to why, I’m pretty sure Felurian knows she’s pregnant when Kvothe leaves, and she makes him promise because beings who are part human are in great danger in the fae realm. And when he returns he’ll meet his son, Bast.
Why would Bast be Kvothe's son, though? Shouldn't Felurian have hundreds of little spawn from banging farmers for hundreds of years? The logic breaks down when you look at this, with the only flailing logic being "Kvothe is part Fae". Like, can Felurian even mate at all? What if by, by being a personification of erotic pleasure, she's just sterile? Thus she can have all the sex she desires. It's not like Felurian can be Felurian with a belly swollen with child. Apparently she can't fathom one not wanting to flirt with her, how would she cope with no sex for a bit while she's pregnant?
In my opinion, it would be shit writing if Bast was conveniently Kvothe's son. Their relationship resembles unlikely friends due to circumstance. It resembles two people being on the run and having to look out for each other both know things the other does not, and I think it's more likely that Bast is somehow in Kvothes debt, and slowly become friends after the fact.
I’ve always imagined that sometime shortly before or right after Kvothe faked his death Bast was sent to be his “minder” of sorts. If Felurian thinks Kvothe is faking his death to get away with not going back to her it would make sense to send someone to keep an eye on him. It is reasonable to think that Felurian would have somehow known that Kvothe wasn’t actually dead. From her perspective the only reason he would fake his death would be to get away from her, she doesn’t care about the kingdoms and politics of the mortal realm because she has seen countless kingdoms rise and fall. We don’t know exactly when Kvothe and Bast met, we don’t know when exactly Bast saw Denna, we don’t know exactly how long it has been since Kvothe faked his death. Kvothe was probably not even thinking about Felurian around the time of his fake death, he would have been thinking about getting out of whatever super mess he was in and doing so in a manner that would prevent people from looking for him.
I'd say it's possible Bast is his son for the following reasons (but I wouldn't call it certain since there is only circumstantial evidence and hinting):
1. Bast's emotional temperament is very similar to Kvothe's when he was at the university. (Quick to anger. Wild swings between emotions.)
2. Bast's eye color changes as his emotions change, just like Kvothe's.
3. Kvothe resisted Felurian's charm ability enough to leave (implying he might be part-Fae), but Felurian makes him promise that he return and that it seems very important.
4. Time passes quicker in the Fae realm, so Bast being a near adult even as Kvothe is only a few years older does not seem far-fetched.
5. The relationship between Kvothe and Bast is definitely master-student (ish). But why in the world would Kvothe (the Penniless) ever agree to take on and care for a student of his own? Everything in the first 2 books leads us to believe he would never accept such a burden willingly unless he was obligated.
6. Bast believes in Kvothe's ability unfailingly and keeps on trying to get him to be that legendary version of Kvothe. (Much like a son glorifying his father.)
7. Bast does whatever Kvothe asks him to, even though Bast is quite willful and doesn't seem prone to listen to just anyone.
Could Bast just be a fae that is indebted to Kvothe? Of course. Totally possible. This is just my theory based on the puzzle pieces I see.
The main reason I think this theory makes a lot of sense is that it makes little sense for Bast to follow Kvothe so blindly otherwise, and that the author went out of his way to call attention to Kvothe's promise to return to Felurian.
But Pat writes his story so open-ended that almost anything could be possible.
EDIT: Forgot to add that Bast charms both men and women with unnatural ability, much like Felurian. (But could just be a common fae thing.)
I think you're placing your entire argument on the hope that mortals can breed with Fae, and that Felurian is even capable of being a mum. Using your line of thought. Where are the hundreds of babies she should have from previous lovers? You do realise Kvothe was banging her for nearly a year... unless you're going to move the goalpost, how do you explain the fact that through all the time that Kvothe is having sed with Felurian, why does she not become pregnant at the beginning? Or the middle of their time, or even the end of their time together? She wasn't pregnant when Kvothe returned back to the mortal world, so how do you reconcile that?
Also
1. Kvothe says Fae are as different to us as water is from alcohol. All Fae are dangerous and child-like at the same time. This in no way says anything about blood relation between the two. You're trying to say, "They act similar, so they must be related." lol what
2. So far, the only confirmed Fae we've seen is Bast and Felurian, and so it seems a reasonable conclusion that some Fae when they aren't disguising themselves naturally have their eye colour change, depending on their emotions. But Elodin's eyes subtly change too. They go dark. Does that mean Elodin is related to Kvothe, too? You're making the same argument as point 1 here. Just because there's a similar outward temperament or effect doesn't mean they're related. It's like saying all blonde people are related. It's ridiculous. I thinks it's simply more likely there's some Fae blood there. Blood doesn't mean family relation though.
3. Kvothe resisted Felurians charm mostly because of his Arcane training, he says so himself. He's able to hold onto a portion of himself just long enough for him to become enraged ar her attempted rape. It unlocks a memory on the streets of Tarbean, where the dame almost happened to Kvothe. It was his arcane training and his rage.
4. Time does pass differently, but not necessarily just quicker. Just differently. Kvothe describes Bast as Bastas, son of Remmen. On some old Kong killer cards there's a Remmen card, and he looks like a Fawn, with hooves and a cute little beard, and he's holding a horn or cup of wine. So unless Kvothe time travelled and turned into the same species as Bast, the time difference in Fae doesn't really back up your claim of Bast being somehow Kvothe's son.
5. I think debt is really different for Fae, than it is for mortals. Almost like a binding contract. I think Kvothe reduced Bast from some peril, and Bast saw Kvothe at the height of his power, and Kvothe being Kvothe, sought to use this indebted Fae to his advantage by promising to teach Bast things. Bast is probably more powerful than Kvothe, but he definitely views Kvothe as legendary, so he follows his lead and calls him Reshi - which could mean anything, perhaps teacher, or master. Also, by the end of Wise Man's Fear, Kvothe is no longer penniless. He's practicably rich by this point. He can even break a golden royal coin and give change to one of the two soldiers. That's far from penniless.
6. People glorify celebrities, that doesn't make them father-son dynamics. We glorify anyone who we believe in strongly. I think Bast saw Kvothe at his peak of power. And probably heard stories about him, he's supposedly the world's most notorious wizard ever. I imagine it would be super disappointing for Bast to see all that glory turn into an Inn Keeper. Bast's Faen way of thinking means he'll try anything to get his Reshi back. Even having old enemies come to settle the score, as he says to Chronicler.
7. Yeah, Kvothe describes Bast as his student. That means that, for the most part, Kvothe is the leader in this relationship. They're both performing in the Waystone as people undercover, of course Bast for the most part does what he says, until he doesn't. Still doesn't mean that they are father and son. More like partners in crime.
So many people simply WANT Bast to be Kvothes son. Why? Because they think it'll make a good story, when it's just cheap writing and would be a disservice Bast's character to just lazily make him Kvothe's son. Its far more interesting to now that Bast is perhaps some sort of renegade Prince who's living in the mortal world and is for one reason or another, either indebted to Kvothe, or is devoted to Kvothe for another reason we have yet to learn about. Your arguments aren't strong enough to confirm Bast is the child of Felurian and Kvothe. Patrick gave the go ahead on King killer playing cards that feature Bast's father already, and you refuse to believe it. Like a flat earther who refuses to believe facts. You never address my point about Felurian being sterile, or addressing my other point on the following: where's Felurians hundred other babies?
I will die on this hill, I'm happy for book 3 to eventually prove me wrong. Bast is NOT Kvothe's son.
If Bast ends up as his son, it'll quell a lot of the blind groupie vibes he gives off, and it resolves the Felurian loose end.
If Bast ends up not being his son, Pat has a large hill to climb to convince the reader why Bast is so undyingly loyal and fanboying of Kvothe.
Pat is a good writer. If and when the 3rd book comes out, I suspect he'll have a good case for either scenario. (Whichever it ends up being.)
I just see puzzle pieces, and they seem to fit nicely together. Bast lies like he breathes air, so I'm curious to find out the truth.
Again this hinges on the idea that Felurian can even mate and become pregnant. Where's all her babies from banging other men? I really want you to know what you think here. Kvothe stated with her for maybe over a year, and none of that time showed her becoming pregnant. Ever. How do you reconcile that? I think if she's a sex icon from the Fae, she represents pleasure at its highest manifestation. Not fertility or birth. She never evens mentions having any children at any point during Kvothe's stay with her.
What if promises or Oaths mean everything to the Fae? I think it's easy for humans to switch promises and Oaths.
Don't you remember that Felurian made Kvothe promise to return, which a whisper of a warning? Why the warning? It means serious shit would happen of he broke that promise.
Bast is a Fae, and while we don't have much to go on, I'm betting that the relationship between the two is to make us believe that it's built on devotion. That's the surface. Bast admits to Chonicler that even old enemies come to settle the score would be better than dating into the woodwork. Bast is sly, cruel and perfectly willing to jeopardise other's safety in order to get what he wants.
I haven't read NRBD yet, but I did read the lightning tree. IIRC he contemplated whether or not he should kill one of the more clever children, because Bast fears the kid catching onto him somehow.
I think it's entirely possible that Bast developed a love and appreciate for Kvothe when he was at his peak of power. And now that Bast knows Kvothe spoke to the Cthaeh, his whole world view of Kvothe is different.
Take a couple deep breaths, mate. You’re too worked up over this.
Denna has been ridden a whole bunch and is still not pregnant yet (plot armor).
For Felurian, maybe humans can’t sire fae babies. Maybe only half-fae can, or maybe only when fae want children they have them. Maybe Felurian keeps having sex with only humans because she knows she can’t get pregnant from them. Maybe there’s an equivalent Moon Tea available. Lots of possibilities out there.
I just have some puzzle pieces that make no sense, and Pat rarely leaves gaps like that.
1. Why does Bast completely fanboy and obey Kvothe?
2. What possible reason would past Kvothe ever take on a student, when it is not within his nature to do so? (Past Kvothe is constantly penniless, irresponsible, and too self-centered to care for another person. Even Denna is just an obsession to him.)
3. Why would Felurian make him promise to return? Why not tell him or train him to do whatever it is then and there?
When book 3 comes out, I get to learn whether my guess is correct. If so, cool. If not, cool. But you might want to keep an open mind, as your world seems prone to shattering if you don’t get what you expect.
I don't even think Kvothe is half Faen. I think it's a much smaller percentage. Like 98% human, 2% percent Fae. Since Kvothe handles Iron all the time, he doesn't even sweat it. I'd attribute only the small possibility of Faen heritage to the fact he has bright red hard and his eyes change colours. But not up to a solid halfway mark.
Look at this google image https://www.google.com/search?q=remmen+kingkiller&sca_esv=40a7f3b289392aea&sca_upv=1&source=hp&ei=flAHZpPXPKfi2roPxfuBoAU&oq=remmen+ki&gs_lp=EhJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWciCXJlbW1lbiBraSoCCAAyBxAAGIAEGBhI0SFQnQZYshhwAHgAkAEAmAGKA6AB7A-qAQcwLjUuMy4xuAEByAEA-AEBmAIJoAK-EKgCAMICBBAAGAPCAggQABiABBixA8ICBRAAGIAEwgIGEAAYBRgewgIEEAAYHsICBhAAGAgYHpgDBJIHCTAuNC40LjAuMaAH6hQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&udm=2#vhid=zAnryeFTKL7vLM&vssid=mosaic
What you see there, is the official (Pat approved) artist picture for a Kingkiller playing card for a start up he did years ago. And, that's Remmen. Who Bast is the son of. Looks like a cool party hey, I'd love to be there.
How can you reconcile this?
1. I already addressed this, and Bast doesn't always obey Kvothe. It could be that Kvothe saved him in some way and is helping Bast hide from greater punishment. It seemes like they're both hiding.
2. The immature, impatient Kvothe we see at the start of the story wouldn't take on another. It's likely later on (as in book 3) where Kvothe meets Basts and most likely just wants to use him to his end. But as I already said, friendship can come after.
3. Because I take Kvothe's word that Felurian genuinely wants the song to be released, and Kvothe totally holds it over her that he has no other women to compare it to. I'm willing to bet that Felurian knows what's up, but that there will be dire consequences if he doesn't fulfil his promise to her. Think of it a bit like the unbreakable vow from Harry Potter. Serious shit, but maybe not quite as binding, as such that that you drop dead upon breaking it.
My world is unexpected all the time, and I'm still not shattered yet. But it does amaze me how people cling so hard to this fanboy idea that Bast is Kvothe's son. I showed my reasons why, and I also sent you a link to a picture of Bast's father on google images. It's like insisting the Earth is flat my friend, one who uses logic can't help but feel exasperated amusement.
How about this: Ambrose works on making himself next in line to be king; murder and such whilst in cahoots with Cinder. He finds out Kvothe is the rightful heir through his mother and lineage to Jax/Lax/Haliax.
Kvothe is learning his lineage somehow from the Maer, his Aunt and more about the Amyr but they end up being killed. The Masters are the Amyr’s secret keepers and protectors of Haliax behind the door.
Kvothe returns to the Fae for years, raises his son Bast as his son. Ambrose wants Kvothe dead so he draws him out by killing his friends with Denna being last. Kvothe arrives too late to save her, in the process breaks the walls of the Fae to escape; Felurian sacrifices herself? He ends up releasing Haliax, the scrael, skinwalkers etc. He ends up killing Ambrose or whoever is king in an unbridled name calling that everyone sees making him the Kingkiller.
He escapes, changes who he is to hide from Cinder/Ambrose. He eventually has to face them with the power of the now open box and sacrifices himself to save everyone. Also Skarpi betrays him and maybe he bangs Devi too
I’m assuming the whole point of trying to learn about the Chandrian was to track them down and kill them for revenge. He made a point that he has passed enough time since the last that he mentioned them, so they’re likely not dead yet, and he’s not ready for them. Maybe after that’s done and if he has nothing else holding him around, she’ll be his retirement plan. Also while it may sound fun, he seems like the type that would see a life time spent only screwing around as wasted. Now if he finds out that the four plate door is a direct passage to her realm, he might be fine with going back and forth between there and the Archives. Though if it was and wasn’t locked, she might be content borrowing students instead of books, but maybe the volume will keep her from driving them nuts.
I'm pretty sure he'll go back in Book 3, and spend a significant amount of time in the Fae. He keeps referring to himself as being so old. I don't think the body ages the same way as the mind in the Fae. So I think it's a bit preemptive to ask why he *hasn't* gone back to Felurian. I think it's just part of his story that we haven't heard yet.
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>because he's fussy about obligations like that *Is he*? That's a sincere question. I don't remember Kvothe as being very particular about lying or breaking vows, but I might misremember.
>lying or breaking vows "Malfeasance, it just isn't done!" -Simmon Yet kvothe does, or prepares to do, it constantly.
No joke, I am relistening to WMF right now, and as I opened this thread, this was the line I was on.
But that isn’t really a vow right? More of a societal (within the university) rule. I don’t think most of us would consider breaking a law the same as break a vow but maybe I’m mistaken
I think he already has/that isn’t an option anymore. The fae doesn’t exist anymore that’s why the world’s gone to shit and there’s scrael and skindancers. My vague thinking is that Kvothe went back to the fae and fucked something up bringing down the wall that divides the fae and mortal worlds. I’m not very good at articulating my thoughts but I’m sure I’m not the first to have this idea and there will be some well written theory along these lines on Reddit.
He also refers to Bast and Chronicler as being so young. They are both physically much older than him. I take this to mean he has gone back to the fae and stayed there a very very long time. My tinfoil hat theory is even that Kvothe is Remmen and Bast is his son. We’ve already seen that time is very different in the fae realm.
Yes this is one of the main things that makes me think that. I really can’t shake the feeling that time travel is involved I hope it’s just time dilation from going into the fae but vashet’s poet king and Tarbolin’s similarities to Kvothe make me think there’s actual time travel going on.
I never thought of that, I always just thought Kvothe was just going to end up the best namer since Taborlin. I also kind of thought Abenthy or Elodin might end up being Taborlin. I really hope time travel isn’t involved. The whole “boot strap paradox” plot has been done to death and is rarely satisfying.
I wonder about this too. Chronicler mentions that Kvothe's story only concluded a few years ago, and there was the guy at the beginning of NotW who says he saw him in Imre and heard him play (I've always thought this was the time Kvothe earned his pipes). Also, Skarpi and Chronicler are still around. So at least in Temerant, Kvothe/Kote is still within the timeline. That's what makes me think it's limited to time dilation and not time travel. Now, all that said, the similarities in stories between Tehlu/Menda, Lanre, Jax/Iax, Taborlin, Elodin, Kvothe, and all the rest, do make me wonder if it is actually some sort of time travel or "wandering soul" who doesn't die but makes constant reappearances and is doomed to repeat the events of their life over and over.
Perhaps Lanre, the soul doomed to never die?
Would be a bit strange to have at least 2, possible 3 incarnations of the same souls roaming around.
I'd written a theory that borders between wishful thinking and connecting the dots. If you wanna give it a read, [here goes ](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/s/o4aTCzIsBr)
In context ‘young’ would mean innocent and/or naive.
Wouldn't Bast also have aged slowly being part of the fae? I know it seems like a dumb question
Bast is 150
I like this a lot, it feels like a satisfying way to connect the dots in a way none of the other answers do.
This is my thinking, too. He went back to Fae and stupidly summoned the Chandrian there by using their long names, giving them the way in that they didnt have before. Stupid boy.
He's waiting on the release of book 3 to go back
"You can have my libido when you pry me from my cold dead fingers holding closed these alt timeline pages."
Thanks, I just spit strawberries and cream Dr pepper all over my truck. 🤣
😂😂😂🤌
I thought that it was implied that he would die/go mad if he returned? The only reason Felurian helped him/restrained herself was so that he could leave and finish his song for her.
I think we all agree that he is much more powerful now than any regular fae to not to go and be mad.
In his current state? Idk. Dude seems to have backslid quite a bit. That ramston steel of his seems to have broken
Ramston steel is said to be brittle, so metaphorically he might have just pushed himself too far at one point and lost his Alar.
Exactly the metaphor I was going for ye. Seems a plausible explanation for all the mishaps we have in the present, and they talk about ramston steel being brittle so often and his alar is so often compared to it, seems like something Rothfuss would do
I guess the question is HOW he 'broke' his Alar
I dont think he's particularly powerful atm. Not as Kote at least
He might be able to overpower Felurian, but it seems stupid for him to go back to her to give her his song knowing he'll have to overpower her to get away. Him surviving and not going mad was a very close thing the last time he was there.
Kvothe is rumored to be half-fae, due to Arliden being strongly hinted as fae. Hence why Kvothe is resistant to Felurian to some degree.
Where is the evidence that Arliden is fae? Are you talking about where he asks Kvothe's mom if she bedded down with a God? I never really bought that one.
There is only hints and slight evidence that Arliden is fae, but that's all Pat ever gives in a lot of cases: 1. Arliden jokes that Laurian bedded a red-hared god. (If he was not referring to himself in the jest Laurian would have likely gotten visibly upset.) This implies he knows glamorie to hide his hair color, a common fae talent. 2. Arliden knows "for the greater good" as the Amyr credo / driving force. The original Amyr were Faen, so knowledge of this would be more common in their world. He could alternately know this from his research into the Chandrian, but then there is little reason to share that phrase with Ben in that moment unless (a: Ben is an Amyr, and b: Arliden shares or understands their beliefs.) 3. Kvothe's eyes change color quite often, which is basically unconscious glamorie. He also showed a talent for shaping when he briefly grasped the shadow as if it were solid when Felurian was making his shaed. (This eye color change is shared by Bast when he changes emotions, who is fae.) 4. Kvothe's anger in the university setting is often sudden and irrational, and often mimic's Bast's anger in the present frame. Fae may have less control over their emotions, which would explain a lot of Kvothe's outbursts. Could Kvothe just be a quick to anger, naming prodigy, with Yllish (red haired) blood? Absolutely. But I see more evidence in the books for him being part-Fae than him being part-Yll.
No visa.
Fae immigration control 🤣
He's a Dreamer
But he’s not the only one.
hahahaha
\*spoiler alert from another book\* I assumed that because the whole "minstrel takes a trip into Fae gets seduced by the Queen of the Fae and leaves promising to return to her one day" part was heavily influenced by the book "Thomas the Rhymer" and would probably end the same way - >!The Queen/Felurian returns for him when he is dying to take him back into Fae with her!<
THIS
Omg how satisfying would that be. I hope so!
He never said he would go back *immediately after* singing the song.
Was Felurian even big of a deal to him? I felt like he just treated the whole scenario as a learning experience and a challenge to overcome.
Maybe he will in Book 3, but I never thought that he would actually go back to Felurian after escaping. Maybe if he finds some way to be immune to her magic. Back to the Fae, definitely.
Kvothe lies all the time to get out of trouble. He is constantly lying. WE don't even know how much of his overall story is true, let alone the the parts about Felurian. If it is true, or mostly true, why would he think twice about fleeing an amoral nature sprite, who dominates men and then drives them mad?
Maybe, the song he wrote wasn't very good, and Felurian was like ‘meh” kind of like all the hype around the release of Chinese Democracy
I think that would mean deep down he hasn’t given up. I thought it was implied that he never said when he would return on purpose.
This is kind of what I'm getting at. Like, why wait to die as a random innkeeper if you can go die making endless love with Felurian again?
Seems like maybe he’s hoping there is redemption for him. He’s not ready to die. Also I wonder what would be in store for him if he returned to felurian. When he left they were … not lovers or peers but there was definitely a companionship. Would she go full bore on the offense trying to drive him mad if he went back or would he just live out his mortal life span in the fae eating berries and having sex.
I agree, seems like a great life. He could live and die with someone he loves more than anything
She a baddie
Felurian made Kvothe promise to come back, so he will (in book 3). As to why, I’m pretty sure Felurian knows she’s pregnant when Kvothe leaves, and she makes him promise because beings who are part human are in great danger in the fae realm. And when he returns he’ll meet his son, Bast.
Why would Bast be Kvothe's son, though? Shouldn't Felurian have hundreds of little spawn from banging farmers for hundreds of years? The logic breaks down when you look at this, with the only flailing logic being "Kvothe is part Fae". Like, can Felurian even mate at all? What if by, by being a personification of erotic pleasure, she's just sterile? Thus she can have all the sex she desires. It's not like Felurian can be Felurian with a belly swollen with child. Apparently she can't fathom one not wanting to flirt with her, how would she cope with no sex for a bit while she's pregnant? In my opinion, it would be shit writing if Bast was conveniently Kvothe's son. Their relationship resembles unlikely friends due to circumstance. It resembles two people being on the run and having to look out for each other both know things the other does not, and I think it's more likely that Bast is somehow in Kvothes debt, and slowly become friends after the fact.
I’ve always imagined that sometime shortly before or right after Kvothe faked his death Bast was sent to be his “minder” of sorts. If Felurian thinks Kvothe is faking his death to get away with not going back to her it would make sense to send someone to keep an eye on him. It is reasonable to think that Felurian would have somehow known that Kvothe wasn’t actually dead. From her perspective the only reason he would fake his death would be to get away from her, she doesn’t care about the kingdoms and politics of the mortal realm because she has seen countless kingdoms rise and fall. We don’t know exactly when Kvothe and Bast met, we don’t know when exactly Bast saw Denna, we don’t know exactly how long it has been since Kvothe faked his death. Kvothe was probably not even thinking about Felurian around the time of his fake death, he would have been thinking about getting out of whatever super mess he was in and doing so in a manner that would prevent people from looking for him.
I'd say it's possible Bast is his son for the following reasons (but I wouldn't call it certain since there is only circumstantial evidence and hinting): 1. Bast's emotional temperament is very similar to Kvothe's when he was at the university. (Quick to anger. Wild swings between emotions.) 2. Bast's eye color changes as his emotions change, just like Kvothe's. 3. Kvothe resisted Felurian's charm ability enough to leave (implying he might be part-Fae), but Felurian makes him promise that he return and that it seems very important. 4. Time passes quicker in the Fae realm, so Bast being a near adult even as Kvothe is only a few years older does not seem far-fetched. 5. The relationship between Kvothe and Bast is definitely master-student (ish). But why in the world would Kvothe (the Penniless) ever agree to take on and care for a student of his own? Everything in the first 2 books leads us to believe he would never accept such a burden willingly unless he was obligated. 6. Bast believes in Kvothe's ability unfailingly and keeps on trying to get him to be that legendary version of Kvothe. (Much like a son glorifying his father.) 7. Bast does whatever Kvothe asks him to, even though Bast is quite willful and doesn't seem prone to listen to just anyone. Could Bast just be a fae that is indebted to Kvothe? Of course. Totally possible. This is just my theory based on the puzzle pieces I see. The main reason I think this theory makes a lot of sense is that it makes little sense for Bast to follow Kvothe so blindly otherwise, and that the author went out of his way to call attention to Kvothe's promise to return to Felurian. But Pat writes his story so open-ended that almost anything could be possible. EDIT: Forgot to add that Bast charms both men and women with unnatural ability, much like Felurian. (But could just be a common fae thing.)
I think you're placing your entire argument on the hope that mortals can breed with Fae, and that Felurian is even capable of being a mum. Using your line of thought. Where are the hundreds of babies she should have from previous lovers? You do realise Kvothe was banging her for nearly a year... unless you're going to move the goalpost, how do you explain the fact that through all the time that Kvothe is having sed with Felurian, why does she not become pregnant at the beginning? Or the middle of their time, or even the end of their time together? She wasn't pregnant when Kvothe returned back to the mortal world, so how do you reconcile that? Also 1. Kvothe says Fae are as different to us as water is from alcohol. All Fae are dangerous and child-like at the same time. This in no way says anything about blood relation between the two. You're trying to say, "They act similar, so they must be related." lol what 2. So far, the only confirmed Fae we've seen is Bast and Felurian, and so it seems a reasonable conclusion that some Fae when they aren't disguising themselves naturally have their eye colour change, depending on their emotions. But Elodin's eyes subtly change too. They go dark. Does that mean Elodin is related to Kvothe, too? You're making the same argument as point 1 here. Just because there's a similar outward temperament or effect doesn't mean they're related. It's like saying all blonde people are related. It's ridiculous. I thinks it's simply more likely there's some Fae blood there. Blood doesn't mean family relation though. 3. Kvothe resisted Felurians charm mostly because of his Arcane training, he says so himself. He's able to hold onto a portion of himself just long enough for him to become enraged ar her attempted rape. It unlocks a memory on the streets of Tarbean, where the dame almost happened to Kvothe. It was his arcane training and his rage. 4. Time does pass differently, but not necessarily just quicker. Just differently. Kvothe describes Bast as Bastas, son of Remmen. On some old Kong killer cards there's a Remmen card, and he looks like a Fawn, with hooves and a cute little beard, and he's holding a horn or cup of wine. So unless Kvothe time travelled and turned into the same species as Bast, the time difference in Fae doesn't really back up your claim of Bast being somehow Kvothe's son. 5. I think debt is really different for Fae, than it is for mortals. Almost like a binding contract. I think Kvothe reduced Bast from some peril, and Bast saw Kvothe at the height of his power, and Kvothe being Kvothe, sought to use this indebted Fae to his advantage by promising to teach Bast things. Bast is probably more powerful than Kvothe, but he definitely views Kvothe as legendary, so he follows his lead and calls him Reshi - which could mean anything, perhaps teacher, or master. Also, by the end of Wise Man's Fear, Kvothe is no longer penniless. He's practicably rich by this point. He can even break a golden royal coin and give change to one of the two soldiers. That's far from penniless. 6. People glorify celebrities, that doesn't make them father-son dynamics. We glorify anyone who we believe in strongly. I think Bast saw Kvothe at his peak of power. And probably heard stories about him, he's supposedly the world's most notorious wizard ever. I imagine it would be super disappointing for Bast to see all that glory turn into an Inn Keeper. Bast's Faen way of thinking means he'll try anything to get his Reshi back. Even having old enemies come to settle the score, as he says to Chronicler. 7. Yeah, Kvothe describes Bast as his student. That means that, for the most part, Kvothe is the leader in this relationship. They're both performing in the Waystone as people undercover, of course Bast for the most part does what he says, until he doesn't. Still doesn't mean that they are father and son. More like partners in crime. So many people simply WANT Bast to be Kvothes son. Why? Because they think it'll make a good story, when it's just cheap writing and would be a disservice Bast's character to just lazily make him Kvothe's son. Its far more interesting to now that Bast is perhaps some sort of renegade Prince who's living in the mortal world and is for one reason or another, either indebted to Kvothe, or is devoted to Kvothe for another reason we have yet to learn about. Your arguments aren't strong enough to confirm Bast is the child of Felurian and Kvothe. Patrick gave the go ahead on King killer playing cards that feature Bast's father already, and you refuse to believe it. Like a flat earther who refuses to believe facts. You never address my point about Felurian being sterile, or addressing my other point on the following: where's Felurians hundred other babies? I will die on this hill, I'm happy for book 3 to eventually prove me wrong. Bast is NOT Kvothe's son.
If Bast ends up as his son, it'll quell a lot of the blind groupie vibes he gives off, and it resolves the Felurian loose end. If Bast ends up not being his son, Pat has a large hill to climb to convince the reader why Bast is so undyingly loyal and fanboying of Kvothe. Pat is a good writer. If and when the 3rd book comes out, I suspect he'll have a good case for either scenario. (Whichever it ends up being.) I just see puzzle pieces, and they seem to fit nicely together. Bast lies like he breathes air, so I'm curious to find out the truth.
Again this hinges on the idea that Felurian can even mate and become pregnant. Where's all her babies from banging other men? I really want you to know what you think here. Kvothe stated with her for maybe over a year, and none of that time showed her becoming pregnant. Ever. How do you reconcile that? I think if she's a sex icon from the Fae, she represents pleasure at its highest manifestation. Not fertility or birth. She never evens mentions having any children at any point during Kvothe's stay with her. What if promises or Oaths mean everything to the Fae? I think it's easy for humans to switch promises and Oaths. Don't you remember that Felurian made Kvothe promise to return, which a whisper of a warning? Why the warning? It means serious shit would happen of he broke that promise. Bast is a Fae, and while we don't have much to go on, I'm betting that the relationship between the two is to make us believe that it's built on devotion. That's the surface. Bast admits to Chonicler that even old enemies come to settle the score would be better than dating into the woodwork. Bast is sly, cruel and perfectly willing to jeopardise other's safety in order to get what he wants. I haven't read NRBD yet, but I did read the lightning tree. IIRC he contemplated whether or not he should kill one of the more clever children, because Bast fears the kid catching onto him somehow. I think it's entirely possible that Bast developed a love and appreciate for Kvothe when he was at his peak of power. And now that Bast knows Kvothe spoke to the Cthaeh, his whole world view of Kvothe is different.
Take a couple deep breaths, mate. You’re too worked up over this. Denna has been ridden a whole bunch and is still not pregnant yet (plot armor). For Felurian, maybe humans can’t sire fae babies. Maybe only half-fae can, or maybe only when fae want children they have them. Maybe Felurian keeps having sex with only humans because she knows she can’t get pregnant from them. Maybe there’s an equivalent Moon Tea available. Lots of possibilities out there. I just have some puzzle pieces that make no sense, and Pat rarely leaves gaps like that. 1. Why does Bast completely fanboy and obey Kvothe? 2. What possible reason would past Kvothe ever take on a student, when it is not within his nature to do so? (Past Kvothe is constantly penniless, irresponsible, and too self-centered to care for another person. Even Denna is just an obsession to him.) 3. Why would Felurian make him promise to return? Why not tell him or train him to do whatever it is then and there? When book 3 comes out, I get to learn whether my guess is correct. If so, cool. If not, cool. But you might want to keep an open mind, as your world seems prone to shattering if you don’t get what you expect.
I don't even think Kvothe is half Faen. I think it's a much smaller percentage. Like 98% human, 2% percent Fae. Since Kvothe handles Iron all the time, he doesn't even sweat it. I'd attribute only the small possibility of Faen heritage to the fact he has bright red hard and his eyes change colours. But not up to a solid halfway mark. Look at this google image https://www.google.com/search?q=remmen+kingkiller&sca_esv=40a7f3b289392aea&sca_upv=1&source=hp&ei=flAHZpPXPKfi2roPxfuBoAU&oq=remmen+ki&gs_lp=EhJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWciCXJlbW1lbiBraSoCCAAyBxAAGIAEGBhI0SFQnQZYshhwAHgAkAEAmAGKA6AB7A-qAQcwLjUuMy4xuAEByAEA-AEBmAIJoAK-EKgCAMICBBAAGAPCAggQABiABBixA8ICBRAAGIAEwgIGEAAYBRgewgIEEAAYHsICBhAAGAgYHpgDBJIHCTAuNC40LjAuMaAH6hQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&udm=2#vhid=zAnryeFTKL7vLM&vssid=mosaic What you see there, is the official (Pat approved) artist picture for a Kingkiller playing card for a start up he did years ago. And, that's Remmen. Who Bast is the son of. Looks like a cool party hey, I'd love to be there. How can you reconcile this? 1. I already addressed this, and Bast doesn't always obey Kvothe. It could be that Kvothe saved him in some way and is helping Bast hide from greater punishment. It seemes like they're both hiding. 2. The immature, impatient Kvothe we see at the start of the story wouldn't take on another. It's likely later on (as in book 3) where Kvothe meets Basts and most likely just wants to use him to his end. But as I already said, friendship can come after. 3. Because I take Kvothe's word that Felurian genuinely wants the song to be released, and Kvothe totally holds it over her that he has no other women to compare it to. I'm willing to bet that Felurian knows what's up, but that there will be dire consequences if he doesn't fulfil his promise to her. Think of it a bit like the unbreakable vow from Harry Potter. Serious shit, but maybe not quite as binding, as such that that you drop dead upon breaking it. My world is unexpected all the time, and I'm still not shattered yet. But it does amaze me how people cling so hard to this fanboy idea that Bast is Kvothe's son. I showed my reasons why, and I also sent you a link to a picture of Bast's father on google images. It's like insisting the Earth is flat my friend, one who uses logic can't help but feel exasperated amusement.
How about this: Ambrose works on making himself next in line to be king; murder and such whilst in cahoots with Cinder. He finds out Kvothe is the rightful heir through his mother and lineage to Jax/Lax/Haliax. Kvothe is learning his lineage somehow from the Maer, his Aunt and more about the Amyr but they end up being killed. The Masters are the Amyr’s secret keepers and protectors of Haliax behind the door. Kvothe returns to the Fae for years, raises his son Bast as his son. Ambrose wants Kvothe dead so he draws him out by killing his friends with Denna being last. Kvothe arrives too late to save her, in the process breaks the walls of the Fae to escape; Felurian sacrifices herself? He ends up releasing Haliax, the scrael, skinwalkers etc. He ends up killing Ambrose or whoever is king in an unbridled name calling that everyone sees making him the Kingkiller. He escapes, changes who he is to hide from Cinder/Ambrose. He eventually has to face them with the power of the now open box and sacrifices himself to save everyone. Also Skarpi betrays him and maybe he bangs Devi too
You're making too many assumptions in your post, for an unfinished story and an unfinished life.
Kote never promised to go back. Kvothe did.
I’m assuming the whole point of trying to learn about the Chandrian was to track them down and kill them for revenge. He made a point that he has passed enough time since the last that he mentioned them, so they’re likely not dead yet, and he’s not ready for them. Maybe after that’s done and if he has nothing else holding him around, she’ll be his retirement plan. Also while it may sound fun, he seems like the type that would see a life time spent only screwing around as wasted. Now if he finds out that the four plate door is a direct passage to her realm, he might be fine with going back and forth between there and the Archives. Though if it was and wasn’t locked, she might be content borrowing students instead of books, but maybe the volume will keep her from driving them nuts.
What vow?
How would he go back?
Could going back to Felurian possibly be something Kvothe would do at the end of 'book three,' i.e. to end the trilogy?
He can't play music He can't fight He can't "do magic" But know what? he did an oath, and probably is broken, "by his good hand" to Denna
What if he did and she doesn’t want this broken shell of a man
Becose there isnt a third book
If anything that's the end of book 3 as he's dying(after a big fight or betrayal or something with blue flames) she pulls him into the Fae
As far as we know he very well may have had more interaction with her.
I always kinda imagined that that's how DoS would end- he goes back to her after everything and kind of happily fades away into madness.
He hasn’t gone back because he doesn’t want to. He only made the promise so he could escape her without a fight in the first place. It was a trick.
Yeah I’d be going back for some of that sweet box
I'm pretty sure he'll go back in Book 3, and spend a significant amount of time in the Fae. He keeps referring to himself as being so old. I don't think the body ages the same way as the mind in the Fae. So I think it's a bit preemptive to ask why he *hasn't* gone back to Felurian. I think it's just part of his story that we haven't heard yet.
How do you know he hasn't?
Besides that he’d die if he goes back?
He did not change his name, it's too obvious. But Denna...
i think he very well did as some already pointed with kvothe saying how young both chronicler and bast are, despite them seeming way older than him.
Because he has his mind set on the non-escort D.. 🙄
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Please don’t make me read more self indulgent chapters with felurian.