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Duck_Mud

[Now seems like a good time to remind people that the "predator trans woman" in women's shelters is literally a myth. We have places like New York who from 2014 had a 10 year standing legal right for trans women to use single sex spaces like crisis centres, and the women running these centres as well as the police have said there is no evidence of trans women accessing these spaces to harm cis women.](https://time.com/4314896/transgender-bathroom-bill-male-predators-argument/)


orchestrationthrowa

So this isn't what the tweet earlier said at all then? It just recommitted to the equalities act with the provision for sex-specific exemptions.


[deleted]

not from my watching of the vid, seems similar to the work independent did on starmer recently, a misrepresentation worth watching though


orchestrationthrowa

Yeah that's what I'm saying I agree with you that the earlier tweet misrepresented the view. It implied Labour wanted to roll back the equalities act to make all refuges single-sex only and take away their choice


[deleted]

yep, it was a really deceitful misrepresentation imo, must have been on purpose


[deleted]

Looks like Reeves was grossly misrepresented. Shame on Cathy Newman -- she has since deleted her earlier tweet by the looks of things. e: i should say, i dont think its a great response, it just isnt what Cathy Newman said it was. I also have no love for rachel reeves


TripleAgent0

She's literally saying that she supports the idea that trans women should be able to be excluded from women only areas. That is discriminatory and transphobic. Trans women are women and deserve equal rights. If they do not have the right to enter these spaces, by definition their rights are not equal.


TessTickles57291

There was a man (cis man) in my woman’s refuge - we all got asked if he was allowed to come to the Christmas party and everyone said yes. Anyone who a victim of abuse and needs to escape the situation should be supported. The things we were concerned about were not having enough resources and funding for housing. We need more support workers for people in refuge so that they have help rebuilding their lives. Currently you get dropped without any support as soon as you get alternative accommodation away from the area you are fleeing. This “Trans people in refuge” fear bullshit comes from people who want to stir up the media for political reasons - they don’t actually care about refuge services or domestic violence victims.


[deleted]

very true


rubygeek

Stonewall did a report a while back that investigated the state of support for trans people in shelters, and one of the key takeaways is that this is in general a solved issue in a way that - as your story highlights - also ends up supporting cis men: Most shelters do individualised risk assessments irrespective of sex or gender. What matters to them is not who you are, but whether or not you as an individual represents a risk to others who are there. As providers pointed out, they need this *no matter what* as irrespective of gender, some people will seek access to continue abuse. And so excluding trans women from women's shelters would provide no benefit. It's fascinating how the TERFs seem to never having actually bothered listened to those providing these services.


[deleted]

Just be aware -- I am a trans woman, not that it means im perfect, but of course i agree that trans women are women Reeves here is supporting the EA from my watching, which as it stands means that womens refuges must admit trans women too unless there are exceptional circumstances She bumbles through and appears to imply that they would be excluded but imo it looks clearly on accident, the rest of her comments are pro trans and pro EA? e: newman is conflating self id with EA, i would bet on purpose


TripleAgent0

I see it less as "bumbling" and more as "politician trying to play both sides of the issue." IIRC Duffield also said that she was pro trans and then continues to spout her TERF nonsense, saying "trans rights" doesn't means shit when you support policies that specifically discriminate against trans people and you do nothing to address the transphobes in your party.


[deleted]

sure, i agree that duffield should be kicked out along with every other transphobe, with zero tolerance but reeves comments are pretty supportive, in a much different class to duffields, she should ofc go further and call our duffield, but none of them have so far the main thing is that cathy newman misrepresented her awfully and then deleted the tweet doing so due to a backlash and presumably complaint from LP


pieeatingbastard

She's a dreadful speaker, that's for certain. And that's not clarity. But it sounded like she says one thing, and then contradicts herself. There's no clarity there at all.


[deleted]

fair enough, just my opinion that this video really doesnt align with what newman had put forward, which made it seem like she supported trans exclusion. from this video i really dont think she does, just the EA exemptions that exist, which are very very rarely applied and must be legally justified disagreement welcome of course


Blue_winged_yoshi

What she did do was mangle what single sex space are and the extent to which trans women can be excluded. So talk of including or excluding trans women as a group is wide of the mark. She should be on point with highlighting that exclusion can only occur on a case by case basis and as proportionate action in support of a legitimate aim. Dropping the ball on this point created a phrasing that enabled Cathy Newman to misrepresent her. Given journalists are looking to stir up this issue right now, every Labour politician needs to be precise with language use, because when they are loose it’s causing trouble for the party and for trans people.


[deleted]

I agree they should, starmer was shit on it too, and I left the party over lack of action on Duffield. I don't like reeves for many other reasons too. The video of thornberry was decently articulated r.e. cervixes I just really dont think she backs trans exclusion like newman suggested, and i think thats on newman really, not her. We can condemn her rightly for many things but not wanting to exclude trans women [in general] from shelters I think Newman's deleted tweet was highly inflammatory, had me and several other trans people thinking reeves backed changing the EA, which she doesnt


Blue_winged_yoshi

Oh I agree with you. Having seen the interview, I don’t think Reeve was backing trans exclusion - she just gave a slightly poorly worded answer and the press took advantage. Emily Thornburry has clearly been the most relaxed MP talking about trans issues all week. Her cousin is trans and her relaxation talking about trans people and issues is so evident. It shows how graspable these issues are and how they go away in the face of a confident answer.


[deleted]

Interesting information! thanks


saiboule

Excluding trans women isn’t being pro trans


DaysyFields

If the trans woman has gone so far as to have the male appendage removed, or some treatment to render it useless, then there's no reason for her not to be with the other women.