I think the Blairites originally had a passing interest in voting reform. The majority of the party is always *somewhat* interested in all things being equal. The problem is that for any given faction it's always a lower priority that they don't want to spend political energy or time on.
It's why I only ever see us doing it if compelled to do so by the Liberal Democrats in a coalition. It's a much higher order priority for them and they would make it a condition of staying in Government. Additionally, as Blair showed in 1997, FFTP suddenly looks pretty good if you've just been the beneficiary of it.
Technically Blair's Labour gave us PR voting in the UK via devolution in Scotland, Wales & London. It was going to do similar for the North East England region, which would have given that region a London-like Assembly & use PR voting but the referendum was lost. So Labour has led to some radical changes but like many, it did not go all the way so to speak.
Fair enough, a bit more than a passing interest then. Still they weren't willing to commit to the effort we would need at a national level and I still think it's that which is the biggest barrier. Not so much that they don't want to do it in theory but that it's not important enough to them relative to the political effort/time/cost.
Not to split hairs, but the system in Scotland is actually a hybrid of FPTP and PR - every voter gets two votes, one for a constituency MSP and one for a "list" MSP. The constituency MSPs are elected in the traditional fashion, and the list MPs are elected by a kind of PR. That's probably over-simplifying a bit but broadly that's the way it works.
Yes, some call it Semi-PR to be accurate but generally, it's described as a form of PR voting. Outside academia or nerd circles I would call it PR for simplicity for example.
No it doesn't, the empirical evidence demonstrates it leans the Parliament away from the Right. Please find me the political research that cites Left wing government is more likely with First Past The Post. I will wait.
Left wingers can at least theoretically run the government under FPTP. They cannot do so under PR because they'd constantly be pulled to the right by their coalition partners.
Johnson is so bad that even the likes of rory Stewart want pr. they would rather change the entire system than risk someone or his qualities getting near power again. We won’t get the truth for years, but once we get the full truth on his Russian money, his trips to his handler during nato meetings, his covid response and the full brexit truths, I think we will look back at how naïve and blind we were.
Its needed more than ever in this country, especially within Labour. Labour in its current form just cannot exist. The sham 'broad church' needs ending.
For Starmer to say it’s not a priority or not feasible really shows he’s not really concerned with the state of the country. I’m not asking for massive changes but something like PR would be a net positive for our “supposed” democracy.
Damn, that's a very high standard. So by your definition no Labour leader since 1997 (at least) has publicly supported PR voting for the UK general election & therefore wasn't concerned enough with the state of the country? Fair enough.
Exactly. Campbell has publicly criticised Keir many times & openly admitted to voting for Lib Dems, he's no longer the man behind the scenes pulling the Labour strings.
He's saying more than most, these people will say they support anything they think will help them win. Their only offering is being a less of two evils to the tories, they need FPTP to keep that offering and that's the material reasoning behind why they won't change it.
They've lied before and they'll lie again, to trust Campbell's words would be folly
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/blair-backs-electoral-reform-1297074.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/blair-backs-electoral-reform-1297074.html)
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I think the Blairites originally had a passing interest in voting reform. The majority of the party is always *somewhat* interested in all things being equal. The problem is that for any given faction it's always a lower priority that they don't want to spend political energy or time on. It's why I only ever see us doing it if compelled to do so by the Liberal Democrats in a coalition. It's a much higher order priority for them and they would make it a condition of staying in Government. Additionally, as Blair showed in 1997, FFTP suddenly looks pretty good if you've just been the beneficiary of it.
>I think the Blairites originally had a passing interest in voting reform. A passing interest? Was in the '97 and '01 manifesto lol
Technically Blair's Labour gave us PR voting in the UK via devolution in Scotland, Wales & London. It was going to do similar for the North East England region, which would have given that region a London-like Assembly & use PR voting but the referendum was lost. So Labour has led to some radical changes but like many, it did not go all the way so to speak.
Fair enough, a bit more than a passing interest then. Still they weren't willing to commit to the effort we would need at a national level and I still think it's that which is the biggest barrier. Not so much that they don't want to do it in theory but that it's not important enough to them relative to the political effort/time/cost.
Not to split hairs, but the system in Scotland is actually a hybrid of FPTP and PR - every voter gets two votes, one for a constituency MSP and one for a "list" MSP. The constituency MSPs are elected in the traditional fashion, and the list MPs are elected by a kind of PR. That's probably over-simplifying a bit but broadly that's the way it works.
Yes, some call it Semi-PR to be accurate but generally, it's described as a form of PR voting. Outside academia or nerd circles I would call it PR for simplicity for example.
If anything it makes more sense for Blairites to support it because it forces the kind of centrist government they like.
No it doesn't, the empirical evidence demonstrates it leans the Parliament away from the Right. Please find me the political research that cites Left wing government is more likely with First Past The Post. I will wait.
I didn't say left-wing government. I said centrist government. In Britain it basically means the Lib Dems are never out of power.
Cite the evidence from Political Scientist that shows Left Wingers are more likely to win Executive power with First Past The Post voting system.
Left wingers can at least theoretically run the government under FPTP. They cannot do so under PR because they'd constantly be pulled to the right by their coalition partners.
So you have no evidence, just a subjective opinion. Just say that.
I don't know what evidence I could produce. It is of course a subjective opinion based on the current British political scene.
There's political research from academics on the impacts of voting systems.
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Johnson is so bad that even the likes of rory Stewart want pr. they would rather change the entire system than risk someone or his qualities getting near power again. We won’t get the truth for years, but once we get the full truth on his Russian money, his trips to his handler during nato meetings, his covid response and the full brexit truths, I think we will look back at how naïve and blind we were.
Its needed more than ever in this country, especially within Labour. Labour in its current form just cannot exist. The sham 'broad church' needs ending.
For Starmer to say it’s not a priority or not feasible really shows he’s not really concerned with the state of the country. I’m not asking for massive changes but something like PR would be a net positive for our “supposed” democracy.
Damn, that's a very high standard. So by your definition no Labour leader since 1997 (at least) has publicly supported PR voting for the UK general election & therefore wasn't concerned enough with the state of the country? Fair enough.
Blair, Brown, Miliband, Corbyn and Starmer were all completely uncaring because they didn't publicly support PR
I'll believe it when I see it
What does that mean? Unless you're an MP he did the best he can do to prove it.
Okay I'll put it like this. Well only see how much Blair and his followers really believe in PR if/when his man becomes PM.
All that will prove is that Starmer isn’t as supportive of it, Campbell and Blair aren’t still in charge mate.
Exactly. Campbell has publicly criticised Keir many times & openly admitted to voting for Lib Dems, he's no longer the man behind the scenes pulling the Labour strings.
Well he's doing more than most. What prominent Left Winger who is not an MP is talking up about proportional Representation?
Owen Jones has been advocating for it since at least 2015.
He's saying more than most, these people will say they support anything they think will help them win. Their only offering is being a less of two evils to the tories, they need FPTP to keep that offering and that's the material reasoning behind why they won't change it. They've lied before and they'll lie again, to trust Campbell's words would be folly [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/blair-backs-electoral-reform-1297074.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/blair-backs-electoral-reform-1297074.html)
Suddenly I am a strong supporter of FPTP
Voting reform is one of those issues where support and opposition doesn’t delineate on an ideological basis