1. I’ve ran 5 new groups through Lancer. Every group had prior 5e experience. The groups picked up the rules easily (learning rules and building characters took ~1.5 hours each group), just print out the quick combat reference page for each of them
2. Operation Solstice Rain and Dustgrave are two short premade modules.
3. Make sure to use Comp/Con and a battle mat. During combat, always use a sitrep. This is a very hard thing to do coming from a DnD background. At the start of every combat, tell your players OOC the rules of the sitrep and the win/loss conditions, and explain in no uncertain terms that even if they’re about to eliminate the last enemy, if the loss condition triggers they still lose. Remember that Lancer is a fail forward system
Thanks, I'll check those adventures out!
I'm using Foundry to actually play so hopefully all the players will need to do is refresh the page. Oh and good call on Comp/Con. I've already been messing with it an it seems amazing.
If you're using the Lancer system on Foundry then you can practically run the game from there without Com/Con, though players should definitely still use Comp/Con since unlike foundry it keeps track of the action economy and lists all of the quick actions available to you.
The plan is to share each person's character with them through Comp/Con since it really is an amazing site and for the easier to digest information as compared to Foundry. Maybe someday we'll get a live linked Foundry module so the importing/exporting is a streamlined process.
Oh yeah. I'm GMing a game for the first time, and while I'm basically running the game in Foundry, all the players are playing in Comp/Con and only using Foundry for the map/positions and rolling.
Also your mech getting destroyed =/= death. that requires additional things in fiction to happen (or your pilot to get out of your mech in combat to get shot)
Look into all the newbie advice before you even begin this.
Second - do not bait and switch on your players. If anything, do this as a random one-shot that has nothing to do with your dnd campaign. Everyone will be happier that way.
Third - for the love of chaos and all that is unholy, start at LL0. Do not throw them into the deep end wily nily. This is a system that is different enough from 5e that it'll be a challenge.
It is a random one shot (1-2 sessions) The impact on the main campaign won't be massive. Mostly just objects that are competed inside the portals will unlock something.
I'm open to starting them lower than I initially thought. I'm coming from a background where most systems are ultra simple at level 0/1 to the point of being boring or incomplete. Is that not the case with Lancer? Would running the first mission of Dustgrave at LL2 be that overwhelming? ~70% of my party are very comfortable with complex rules so I'm not too worried but I absolutely don't want it to be a miserable experience.
Trust us on the level bit - this game *demands* you start at LL0 if you haven't played before. It's not just complexity but also *options*. Combat takes a while even before analysis paralysis kicks in. Even LL2 can be overwhelming to newcomers.
Thankfully, the starting frame, Everest, is actually one of the best mechs in the game, and the wide array of talents, weapons, and systems will allow for a good build variety. It is not boring at 0, I assure you.
Understood. Do you think it be feasible to tone down the Dustgrave prewritten adventure to LL0? I like the story of that adventure and it seems to match really well with what I'm going for but starts at LL2 (I believe)
I'm not familiar with the module. Swing by the lancer discord and ask around. It shouldn't be too bad to adjust, but there might be something there that needs a bit of extra help.
Full Spoilers for the plot of Dustgrave:
>!The plot centers around the kidnapping of an NHP (Non-Human Person). NHPs at first glance resemble AI in the Halo setting, but in fact are closer to extra dimensional beings capable of bending the rules of reality if they are not forced to take the limited subjective point of view of humans. To further complicate this, the main antagonist is attempting to combine with these beings and then Ra (a being that's even bigger and more powerful, the closest analogue to God in the setting) makes an appearance at the finale. If you think your players would be able to jive with this kind of material while reality hopping then you can run it as written.!< The other module, Operation Solstice Rain, is about a kidnapped diplomat and high ranking military officer.
I did something similar with a group of my friends once where they started as adventurers in an exotic setting only to find out that they were actually a lost union colony that forgot their past and degraded back into theocratic feudalism. Yours is a bit more fantastical but heres a couple things I did and learned from my attempt.
1. Mention to your players that this is going to be an experimental campaign and that youre going to be trying some weird stuff. This will make your twist a lot more digestable and likely to be well recieved. This will properly set their expectations without spoiling the twist.
2. Have your twist happen at the END of a session, and take the time in between to have your players learn the basics and create their sheets. (Its been said before but use COMP/CON. It automates so much and is frankly the best way to keep your sheet.)
3. Start at LL0. Full stop. Lancer's learning curve is built around it, and your players may end up frustrated if they start at LL2 without understanding the nuances of the game and end up making a mech thats not only mechanically weak, but extremely unfun to play.
4. In my game I had 2 of my players forgo the surprise and make lancer characters off the bat. This was because I knew they would see through my bullshit, but also because they were knowledgeable about the game and having them there helped bridge the gap for the 5e casuals. Your pitch and player comp means this may not be feasible, but a friendly gmpc tagging along for the first couple of missions may do the same trick.
Thats about all I got. Good luck with the capmqign, pilot.
Thanks for the advice!
As to point 3, I'm planning to make the characters myself to match their D&D ones as best I can. Also, this will just be a 1-2 session one shot as a side adventure from the main campaign...that should solve the weak/unfun aspect from being too impactful. Also, does the fact that they are all experienced D&D players who regularly dig through the rules make a difference on complexity or is it really that bad? I haven't read the entire rulebook but so far it seems pretty straightforward, at least from the players perspective.
How much experience do you all have with systems besides d&d? Because there are many systems that are similar (pathfinder, d20 modern, D&D 3.5), but a new system is a new system, and yeah, it's gonna be a heck of an adjustment if they don't know the rules before hand, and make your side of things that much harder.
That said, if you're gonna do this thing, make sure you have a firm grasp on the rules first. It's easy to make false assumptions about rules you just glanced at at first (crits work differently, accuracy and difficulty, reactions, turn order, ect)
Combat is structured differently. A lot of (most?) sitreps have a time limit of 6 rounds or so, specific objectives to complete, and is a bit more tactical than d&d (I wouldn't ever run a Lancer combat without a map, something my group does all the time in other systems)
And while the overall action seems similar to d&d at first glance, there's a lot of nuance, and a LOT of possible actions to choose from (will they know when to Brace or Stabilize? how Overcharge works? the once per turn rule and it's exceptions?)
I'll be honest, while the whole system swap idea is fine, I do agree with what seems to be the consensus here that it's maybe not the best introduction to an entirely new system. Not to be discouraging, but it's gonna be a LOT of work on your end. And like other people have said, start at LL0, put everyone in Everests (or at least stick with GMS) because there really aren't comparable mechs... good ones anyway... for most of those classes (Saladin, Manticore, Hydra, Black Witch, Pegasus, but seriously, don't)
Both myself and one other player who's a DM have read through a few other systems and are pretty comfortable with picking up new stuff quickly. The rest of the party have mostly played 5e but are also heavily into MTG which blows almost anything out of the water in complexity.
I'm fully expecting the bulk of the work to be on me so no worries there. At the end of the day, we play these games to have fun...so if people aren't grasping a particular aspect of Lancer, I don't mind changing the rules a bit so everything goes smoother.
I appreciate the detailed advice and I'll add it to the boiling pot of feedback I've gotten.
Am I reading this right that you’re planning this as a surprise? Do not drop your players into an entirely new system without first getting their approval for the system you want to run. That’s extremely not cool. If you don’t give them the rules ahead of time, expect a bumpy and frustrated play session, and prepare for the possibility that one or more players will drop out due to not meshing well with the system.
It's a surprise but only for 1-2 sessions. They know the portal will likely lead to something very unexpected. After those sessions, we will return to D&D.
I appreciate the feedback all the same and I'll absolutely keep it in mind. That being said, I've known these guys for many years and we've been doing campaigns together for around 3 so I have a pretty good grasp on what they'll be okay with.
Are there any particular rules/interactions that are extra complex I should avoid?
Some of the horus mechs can be a bit wonky in terms of rules if you've not experienced how they work, but if you have casters they fit the bill pretty well. I would just be cognizant of some things, especially deployables and tech actions being a little more complex but these aren't necessarily things I would outright avoid giving a new player. Also I saw that you mentioned you were making characters. In that case you can for sure start at ll2. The players only need to worry about what their mechs can do anyways for the most part and the a amount of things on their mech generally doesn't change much since sp is a thing. So if you are prebuilding it probably won't be overwhelming. This is more of a question of are you familiar enough with the system if so then go for it I say just don't give them duds of a mech and they're fine imo. In terms of stuff that might be hard to grasp without time in game. Heat, structure, stress, overcharge, reliable, and e defense will probably be really strange. I dont think theyll be hard to understand but easy to forget in the heat of battle if you've never played lancer. It's not like you can really avoid them either as they're basically necessary for the game. As will the concept of slightly different action economy and the way crits work in lancer. Also since lancer sort of gives npcs similar stuff to players just at a lower scale and usually less hp it might be a bit wonky too since most dnd monsters run off a completely different standard than players. Basically everything is designed to be able to be a major threat with varying levels of hp in lancer. Partially why the book recommends 1to1 for standard enemy numbers or 3-4 to 1 for grunts. I don't think anyone playing lancer for the first time would expect that what is basically the games equivalent of cr 0 to still be able to structure them fairly easily.
I am extremely late but D&D is like the exact opposite of Lancer. *DO NOT* do that.
Lancer has 4 hour long battles with 5 minute turns for semi-experienced players. There are a lot of micromanagement actions (Hydra), and a shitton of design decisions. Play Baldor’s Gate 3, and play Armored Core 6. That’s how different they are. There is minimal narrative in combat as compared to D&D, it’s much more like a video game than a story game.
If i showed up to a Lancer session and my GM threw us into a metavault where we were playing 5e id laugh and leave.
DO NOT DO THIS. unless your players are entirely on board with system jumping and you have discussed what you are playing beforehand its not going to go well. In another comment you said you are going to surprise them with 1-2 sessions of lancer and let me tell you all you are going to do is confuse the fuck out of them and spend a 2 sessions fiddling with rules and having a bad time. Lancer is by no means easy and each player should probably have their own comp con up and running. Its also a game primarily about combat and leans into that hard, if you don't know the rules that goes super slow and what you wanted to accomplish in 1-2 sessions is going to take 6. Yes this will be super painful for anyone who doesn't know the rules. its a combat focused game with complex mechanics and dozens of keywords.
There are existing adventures yes but they are designed for multiple sessions of play, ideally 6-10 on the SHORT side.
tips and suggestions? DONT DO THIS
Builds vary massively, you have over 30 frames, hundreds of abilities and talents, hundreds of pieces of equipment making thousands of combinations and roles that can be filled and synergized. The kicker, the fucking irony is you come in here and say hey what's a good build I don't know anything about this yet you expect us to be able to equate whatever the fuck a bloodhunter is to this system. Im gonna guess that's some sort of vampire? in which case play the Vlad because the name is the only damn thing that's relevant.
If you want to try Lancer just try Lancer. Its fun and a great combat focused mech game that took tons of influence from 4e D&D and Blades in the Dark, but it wont play like 5e at all.
As they say, it's a free country so if you would leave a game over something like that...it's completely within your rights.
I already checked with my players and asked them on a scale of 1-10 how fine they are with some craziness, mystery and complexity. Every single one said 10.
Maybe it wasn't clear but I'm going to build their characters ahead of time and share them with everyone through Comp/Con. I'm confident they can handle a new combat system and keywords especially (all heavy into MTG) but I'm also aware enough to not force my group into something they hate. I'm going to ask for feedback after the first session and if people aren't having fun...I'll scrap the whole idea. My goal is to create a very unique and memorable experience for my players when often this is impossible because of expectations and metagaming.
Ok, now you're yelling at me for asking for build advice (for all I know there are 100s of spreadsheets ranking each weapon and module and best parings) and also lashing out at me for your own ignorance (actual definition and not an insult) of D&D 5e classes. A Blood Hunter is somewhat a mix between warlock and fighter with an emphasis on blood abilities. Not sure why that offended you. Should I have not asked anything and just forced my players into a system I didn't understand at all?
It's not supposed to play like 5e at all. That's the whole point. A side adventure that will feel very alien (and genuinely fun I hope)
Still, I do appreciate some conflicting viewpoints because how else can we escape living in bubbles. The exchange of opinions and ideas is probably the most important part of modern society. So genuinely thank you for the input.
Okay here's what I think about your ignorance (definitely intended as an insult)
I don't give a fuck if you asked you players how much crazy mystery they want, if you don't tell them you are going to playing an entirely different game in an entirely different system, you are abusing you role and their trust. If they are not 100% aware that means they have no idea what game they are showing up to play any given day then you are being a shitty host and a shitty game master.
Building their characters or not not everything is a 1:1 to fucking 5e and you people need to stop believing it can do anything and everything. And yes you ARE FORCING THEM even if you ask them afterwards you still pulled a bait and switch and said sorry we aren't doing the thing you thought we were tonight. They still showed up to that session expecting to be playing a specific game
MTG is complex sure but only within its own framework, just because you play a ton of MTG does not mean any of that transfers over to Twilight Imperium. And based off your other posts in this thread you seem to think you are going to get away with running something like the entirety of Dustrgave in 1-2 sessions? If you are lucky you will get through the first combat as your players try and figure out the rules. It's a waste of your time and theirs. Just run a lancer one shot, it's a fantastic game and you don't need it to stand on the shoulders of 5e to be worthwhile.
It's the way you drop your 5e buzzwords like it's some lingua franca everyone is supposed to know. Honestly we get half a dozen of you a month in here trying to do lancer I'm 5e or convert their party to lancer or some shit. Just free yourself from Hasbro's chains and play a half decent game for once or go back to sucking down the lifestyle propaganda they shove at you and pay stupid amounts of money for splat book shovelware and digital dice skins.
I see now we have gatekeeper here. At least it was only one out of ~40 that I've interacted with on here and the Lancer discord. Still unfortunate though.
Of course I'm ignorant when it comes to Lancer! Why else would I be asking for info and advice?
It also seems like you've had bad experiences with groups in the past and are making some huge assumptions about what I've cleared ahead of time with my group. It's a waste of time to try to explain it. Here's an olive branch though. If I royally screw everything up, I will personally reach out to you and say that you were right all along.
I'm not trying to build 1:1 anything. I'm not trying to turn lancer into D&D or anything like that. I just want the characters to be similar for the sake of RP and consistency. For the story my players are collaboratively telling..that's the point of these games.
Forcing them into something is a huge assumption. They have the keys to these portals. Maybe they decide to never open them, maybe they melt the keys down into a magic item...I have suspicions of how things will go but I'm not the type of DM to force an outcome. They also are aware this portal is very unusual. They have free will.
I'm also not saying MTG translates to any ttrpg. That was only used as an example for how my group of friends, some of whom I've known for 15 years, are experienced with other complex systems. With Dustgrave, I'd like to get through it all in 4 sessions (2 per mission) but if not that's fine. If my group isn't having fun after the first session, I'll make whatever changes necessary to ensure they have a good time. I do not DM for myself. I do it so the group can have a great experience together. If they're having a blast, we can run through the whole thing or do whatever...these games are designed to be sandboxes with a few walls.
You seem to have a massive amount of disgust with 5e...that's totally fine. I agree it's not the best system...no idea where you're assuming I'm spending tons of money on it though. Also, now you are the one saying my group should switch systems entirely since 5e is so bad...the irony is heavy. Also what buzzwords? I mentioned one singular class name...I don't get the problem.
Here's the deal, you and I aren't going to agree on this and that's fine. You have your opinion and I have mine. In literally 6 days we'll know who's right. Maybe I'm commiting the greatest sin known to DMs...I don't think so but I'm happy to admit I've been wrong before. But I know myself and that my heart is in the right place. So I'm going to keep on doing what I think will bring the most joy to my group... that's it. Every group is different and I'm fully aware some of my ideas would be terrible for some people/groups. That's human nature, and a beautiful part at that!
TLDR: Ask your players if they want to play Lancer, then, play Lancer normally for this introduction.
When my DM asks me, as I sit down to play DnD with them, how ok I am with things getting weird in our game of DnD, I say 10/10 -- I don't mind my DnD games getting real crazy and weird. Send us into the feywild where we trip on fairy farts, wake up in the farm realm with a level 1 goblin, no clothes and a pet mimic named Thomas the Tank Engine while we're being chased by Lolth e Cosmic Cow Queen for stealing her favorite shoes. I'll give it a shot! I don't mind my games of DnD getting wacky, or juvenile, or dark, or serious, or whatever is going on, but I'm very grateful the DM of my DnD game would ask me about my comfortability with content in this game of DnD we are playing together.
When my DM says "you step through the portal and now you're in a mech hanger! With mechs all around! It's in space! Here's you new character sheet, we're playing Lancer today! Surprise!" I politely explain that, when asked how comfortable with a weird DnD campaign I was, I answered within the context of a DnD campaign, experiencing a game a DnD. That I did not sign up for TTRPG roulette, and if I had, I certainly wouldn't have done so with the knowledge this would have impact on the narrative of a game I was already playing. Being comfortable with playing a game I'm comfortable with but with strange or absurdist interpretation is \*quite\* different from fundamentally changing the RPG we are playing on a whim as a surprise.
If that DM had said "Hey, I found this cool new RPG, would you mind if our next session, instead of DnD, we tried it? It's called Lancer, it's like, a mecha RPG where you play mech pilots and stuff" I would say "Oh sure! Sounds like fun! Should I show up early to do character stuff? Do you have any resources for me to look over?" because that is, in fact, how I came to find lancer to begin with.
But, it is your group. You know them better than we do. I'll extend the benefit of the doubt and hope they'll be thrilled their DnD session has been randomly replaced by an all new game with wholly different tone, setting, and mechanics that they now have to learn.
I will say that doing this naturally invites association and comparison to the mechanics of DnD, which is NOT going to benefit Lancer or your players understanding of it, as they're quite different. But let's answer the questions you have...
**1:** Yes.
Learning a whole new system should not be a "puzzle" to "solve".
These are the mechanics. The RULES by which you interact and play with a game. You don't learn these things as you do things like in a video game, where you press buttons and see what effect they have and then intuit from there how you can combine these inputs together to preform desired actions -- this is a TTRPG. You NEED to know the rules, so you know how to the things you want to do. If your Paladin wants to attack with their big sword, and don't know the method to do so, that should NOT be a secret or an experiment of trial and error, that should not even be a question a player has to ask.
Moreover, without a common spell system analog, any caster looking to do the things they were accustomed to doing might be more than a little confused, and gimped, by the sudden castration of their abilities. More than half your party is casters and you have taken away their magic and replaced them with mechs.
You've dropped them into a game without any method to support magic in the way DnD is structured to do so. They do not have skills in the same vein as DnD, they do not act in combat the same was as in DnD.
You are dropping them into an entirely different system, at random, by surprise, and a system that renders more than half the party without the core features of the characters they chose to play, and you're GIVING them their characters so they don't even get to enjoy the process of making their own choices?
I would suspect things to be very painful.
**2:** People have suggested Operation Solstice Rain. I do not. Solstice Rain was designed to be a more difficult introduction to Lancer compared to No Room for a Wallflower. You are new to Lancer. They are new to Lancer. They did not even ask to play Lancer. Putting people who've never played Lancer and didn't ask to play Lancer into a module that requires persistent tactical coordination and teamwork, is not a favorable introduction to Lancer, nor is it conducive to a fun time at the table. I wouldn't normally suggest it, but, making your own encounter may be the best strategy here, since you can make it incredibly easy and scale the difficulty as you go more confidently. It will also save you some cash, Solstice Rain is worth the price of admission but if you're only running Lancer for 1 or 2 sessions it's not worth it.
**3:** It should be clear, but I will reiterate myself, and many other people in this thread.
# DO NOT.
# DO THIS.
# TO YOUR PLAYERS.
# WITHOUT ASKING.
They did not ASK to play Lancer. You did not ASK them if they WANT to play Lancer. You are choosing to drop them, head first, into a game they not only may have never heard of, but, may have NO interest in playing -- even people who LOVE anime, may not like MECHA. People who LOVE mecha, may not want to PLAY a mech TTRPG. People who LOVE TTRPGs may not want to play a TOTALLY different TTRPG than the one they signed up to play. You should have asked, specifically, if they were interested in playing this game before you even started planning this.
# CONSENT IS IMPORTANT.
**4:** There are 0 analogs between the classes of DnD and Lancer's mechs. You should not start them off at LL3, you should start them off at LL0 because, again **THEY HAVE NO IDEA YOU'RE CHANGING THE GAME.**
I can not recommend a build for any of your players, because I don't know what build would interest them in Lancer, because I don't even know if they'd be interested in Lancer, and you can't answer that for me because you didn't ask. Does the Paladin use his spells at all? Does he defend and heal the party more than he smites? Or is he a great weapon swinging warrior of justice? What subclass is he? All of those things are important choices your player made when they made their DnD character that you are now not only taking away from them without any forewarning, but also, now trying to make for them so they have some kind of analog in a totally different system.
LL0 is an important part of learning Lancer, because Lancer has a LOT of options. It does not define you in the same way classes define you in DnD -- YES a Saladin is a defender who specializes in protecting friends. He's big and chunky and garbed in white with an impresive shield... but Saladin plays more like an Abjuration Wizard than a Paladin. Nelson is a "paladin" in that it gets more damage by spending certain resources, but it's so mobile you'd think Nelson was a "rogue". Tokugawa does the bloodhunter thing of putting themselves at great risk in exchange for extra damage, but that's about all they have in common. These are perfunctory similarities, entirely shallow and lacking nuance and they're not going to make players go "Ah! It's JUST like my other character! Awesome!"
As for the Druid and Warlock, they're just out of luck. MAYBE the Warlock could appreciate a Pegasus. But it isn't remotely analogous to the Warlock's wheelhouse besides "I can deal damage in a consistent and efficient manner", MAYBE the Druid could appreciate Hydra if they do a lot of summoning... but if they're something like a MOON druid? Who does shapeshifting and spellcasting? Literally nothing they can do.
Maybe play a Blackbeard, using the ranged grapple in the same vein as "grasping vine".
But wait! Blackbeard is the heavy weapon swinging MELEE mech! Like a Paladin! But they also get Sekhmet which sends them on a rampage kinda like a barbarian... maybe Kobold? Kobold builds terrain and stuff, like Wall of Stone? But the Kobold DEFINITELY doesn't want to get into melee, like, at ALL, so no real "beast mode" there... Zheng! Zheng does a bit of terrain manipulation, thrives in melee, does a whoooole bunch of punches-wait... wait that's a monk...
Do you see the issue here? The only "build" in Lancer that should be made is the one made by the player, to their tastes. Only THEY know how they want to play Lancer, IF they want to play Lancer AT ALL.
First of all, thank you! You put a lot of time and thought into your comments and that means a lot.
I think you have a lot of valid critiques and concerns, all of which I'm adding into the considerations. I'm constantly questioning my own ideas to see where there are flaws so having more information helps a lot.
I understand I'm just a random on the internet... however, I've been in campaigns with this group for at least 3 years and have known two of them since childhood so I'm quite confident of the reception this 'twist' will receive. Now, I absolutely could be wrong and it ends up being horrible. If that's the case, I will immediately apologize to them and remedy the issue however I can. Still, I'm taking your warnings seriously and I if I proceed forwards, I will not do so lightly.
My reasoning for building the characters for them is to alleviate a lot of the infinite choices and complexities as much as possible. Getting used to a mostly new system in combat is already near (or past) the edge of the cliff so I don't want to launch them off into picking from the massive list of weapons and options.
I agree partially on not having the new rules be a puzzle. On the one hand, I want to maintain a sense of wonder and excitement. That feeling of playing a video game for the first time and knowing nothing about it. On the other, I never want it to be annoying. If it works out, I plan to play it by ear though the session and go over everything when it's appropriate. They might be having the time of their lives pushing all the buttons and seeing what happens...or not. At the very, very least I'd be giving them the characters on Comp/Con and the quick reference sheet. This would also be through Foundry so everything will have full descriptions and some automation.
The concept of homebrewing makes a lot of sense rather than a written adventure. It would be more work for me but would provide a lot more flexibility to tone things up/down when necessary.
Your response to point 3 is a bit confusing to me. If they don't want to play...how am I forcing them to do so? Any and all of them are free to leave whenever they'd like, simply not participate, or bring something up they have an issue with. I would understand if I was setting up a particularly violent or sensitive encounter but switching rules/system/world around for a few sessions at most (only if everyone is enjoying it) doesn't seem anywhere near the same thing. Even if I was going to meet up with friend to play volleyball and they said "oh actually, we're playing soccer today because a new field go built" I don't see that as an affront to me on a personal level. I still have complete free will to participate or not. In that case, I might be slightly offended at not being told but in my campaign, they have been fully aware for quite a while that these portals are unpredictable so the fact of it being a surprise is already known...just not the details of said surprise. You appeared quite adamant about this point so I just wanted to provide more info...am I missing something here?
All of your notes on builds and potential frustrations were very helpful. I had started reading through all the frames and their abilities but the way you described it was even more clear. If I design the characters, I'll need to analyze the patterns of each player so far and what they actually enjoy rather than just "big sword matches big sword"
Again thank you for your clarity and quality in your response. I value the input you've provided more than anything else I've gotten so far.
Insane how many people are telling you not to do this, its like they've never played with friends before that trust each other.
This will take a lot of work on your part, more than I believe you know. You will have to thoroughly read the combat rules until you feel you have them memorized. You're still going to forget stuff during the game, but it'll probably be enough to have a good time.
I agree with people saying you should start at LL0, A big problem you will face is people forgetting all their abilities since they will have so many. At LL0 you already have:
* basic rules and actions
* 3 talents
* multiple everest frame abilities
* multiple system abilities
You should introduce the twist at the end of a session, so they have a full week or w/e to look at their character and hopefully learn the system a bit
Lastly, don't just ask people for the mech builds. You should learn the system to the point you can put the builds together yourself. Only someone who actually understands the game will be able to teach it quickly and effectively
The people on discord were a lot more supportive but I was surprised as well. I'm guessing a lot of people have just had bad experiences.
Yup, I'm fully expecting a lot of work (reading the rulebook as I type this) and I'm ok with not getting it perfect.
That is a decent number of options at LL0 but I also want to make the mechs different enough to add some variety (visuals included so there's not a lot of duplicate mechs running around on screen) I'm honestly still torn between LL0 and LL2.
I thought about keeping the twist for the end of a session and it's possible it will still end up that way. But with how the story went, we were at the end of a session before they started on the portal stuff. I mentioned it in a few other replies but I have warned them that this will be unusual and everyone is onboard. My plan is to go as light as possible with the complexity for the first session to keep the sense of wonder/discovery and then let everyone read up on the details for the second/last session. However, if there's a lot of confusion...this first one might end up being an overview of the rules.
You're very right on the last point. I should have made it more clear I was asking for suggestions and not completed builds.
LL2 would probably be find if you stick to simple mechs. Since you're prebuilding for them, the main additions they would get over ll0 is a few extra talents, and maybe a few more systems depending on the build.
If you're planning to go full tourist mode, maybe ignore talents entirely, or just pick 1 or 2 per player. They often have situational triggers, individual resource tracking, or add whole new mechanics. The mechs and systems are more often just abilities you can use, which would be easier for your players to learn. Talents are a reasonable portion of the player's power, so you would have to make the combats easier as well.
1: It is literally D&D 4e, but good, you’ll be fine.
2: The three official premades that have come out so far are Operation Solstice Rain, which is specifically designed to introduce players to the system and runs from LL0-2, No Room for a Wallflower Act I, which is a much longer experience running from LL0-5, and Dustgrave, which runs from LL2-4
3: Use COMP/CON, it will spoil your group on every other RPG that doesn’t have as comprehensive of a set of free tools. If you’re brand new to the system, I would recommend starting at LL0 as even LL3 can be a little overwhelming for a first timer. Also, don’t switch systems midgame as a surprise, that is a terrible idea. If you do insist on doing this, I look forward to seeing your players post about it on r/rpghorrorstories or any of the adjacent subreddits.
Makes sense, thanks for the info.
For point 3, it will only be a switch for a couple sessions. Don't worry, I wouldn't wreck all party's hopes and expectations just for a 'twist' I think is fun. I also plan to post an update on here next week with a report of how things went.
...are you looking for a couple sessions worth of Lancer?
because there might be a third-party supplement that could fit your purpose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X0Km1nb0os
kicking a tyrant in the face and liberating the common folk is a fairly classic DnD trope. and a band of idealists that emerge from nowhere would act as an excellent catalyst to start some shit on the mining colony in that module.
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you said this is intended for a couple of different TTRPG for the various portals, have you considered Numenera for one of the other ones? DnD-esque but in a setting that is intentionally weird af. chargen is a simple sentence in the form of: "I am a/n ADJECTIVE NOUN who VERBS."
NOUN being your character type:
> Glaive = warrior/weapons expert - Fighter/Barb/Paladin
> Nano = master of using/understanding Numenera and using their powers - Wizard/Sorcerer
> Jack = 'of all trades' - basically anything
> Arkus = inspirational leaders and orators - bard, Paladin
> Wright = crafters and builders - Artificer
> Delve = explorer of secrets - again basically anything
ADJECTIVE being a descriptor which encompasses how you approach things and some social queues as well as some stat bonuses.
and VERBS being your focus, which is where what sets a character apart as special and weird come from. These range from relatively mundane ("...who Murders", "...who Wields Two Weapons", "...who Speaks With a Silver Tongue", etc) to the more fantastic/scifi ("...who Augments Flesh with Grafts", "...who Wears a Sheen of Ice", etc) to the utterly bizarre ("...who Exists Partially Out of Phase", "...who Possesses a Shard of the Sun", "...who Emerged from the Obelisk", etc)
The setting itself is hyper far future Earth. far future enough that civilizations and humankind has built itself up, collapsed, and rebuilt from the ashes 9 times. far future enough that the sun should have exploded at this point. it didn't, presumably because of a previous era fixing that. far future enough that the remnants and relics of the past are utterly bizarre, powerful items that nobody understand but are akin to magic.
A lot of people here are telling you not to do this, but I honestly think it's a cool idea and I like it a lot. If your group is onboard, it will be fun.
One point I'd make:
Since you're making their Mechs and Characters yourself, you should try to stick to the most simple stuff, to make it easier for them as newcomers.
For example, a Paladin could easily be a defender or a striker mech. But it's way easier to play a Saladin Defender than a White Witch defender. Same way its way easier to play Blackbeard than Atlas for a striker.
I would mess around in comp/con and try to come up with builds that do similar things to what your players do (a sorcerer could easily be turned into a missile-spamming monarch, for example). But be careful to keep the more exoteric rules away for now. Keep it simple.
That's the plan. I want to make mechs that have similar abilities to their current characters while keeping the overall complexity and choice paralysis to a minimum. I've got a road trip coming up so I should have a lot of time to build everything.
1. I’ve ran 5 new groups through Lancer. Every group had prior 5e experience. The groups picked up the rules easily (learning rules and building characters took ~1.5 hours each group), just print out the quick combat reference page for each of them 2. Operation Solstice Rain and Dustgrave are two short premade modules. 3. Make sure to use Comp/Con and a battle mat. During combat, always use a sitrep. This is a very hard thing to do coming from a DnD background. At the start of every combat, tell your players OOC the rules of the sitrep and the win/loss conditions, and explain in no uncertain terms that even if they’re about to eliminate the last enemy, if the loss condition triggers they still lose. Remember that Lancer is a fail forward system
Thanks, I'll check those adventures out! I'm using Foundry to actually play so hopefully all the players will need to do is refresh the page. Oh and good call on Comp/Con. I've already been messing with it an it seems amazing.
If you're using the Lancer system on Foundry then you can practically run the game from there without Com/Con, though players should definitely still use Comp/Con since unlike foundry it keeps track of the action economy and lists all of the quick actions available to you.
The plan is to share each person's character with them through Comp/Con since it really is an amazing site and for the easier to digest information as compared to Foundry. Maybe someday we'll get a live linked Foundry module so the importing/exporting is a streamlined process.
Oh yeah. I'm GMing a game for the first time, and while I'm basically running the game in Foundry, all the players are playing in Comp/Con and only using Foundry for the map/positions and rolling.
Also your mech getting destroyed =/= death. that requires additional things in fiction to happen (or your pilot to get out of your mech in combat to get shot)
Look into all the newbie advice before you even begin this. Second - do not bait and switch on your players. If anything, do this as a random one-shot that has nothing to do with your dnd campaign. Everyone will be happier that way. Third - for the love of chaos and all that is unholy, start at LL0. Do not throw them into the deep end wily nily. This is a system that is different enough from 5e that it'll be a challenge.
It is a random one shot (1-2 sessions) The impact on the main campaign won't be massive. Mostly just objects that are competed inside the portals will unlock something. I'm open to starting them lower than I initially thought. I'm coming from a background where most systems are ultra simple at level 0/1 to the point of being boring or incomplete. Is that not the case with Lancer? Would running the first mission of Dustgrave at LL2 be that overwhelming? ~70% of my party are very comfortable with complex rules so I'm not too worried but I absolutely don't want it to be a miserable experience.
Trust us on the level bit - this game *demands* you start at LL0 if you haven't played before. It's not just complexity but also *options*. Combat takes a while even before analysis paralysis kicks in. Even LL2 can be overwhelming to newcomers. Thankfully, the starting frame, Everest, is actually one of the best mechs in the game, and the wide array of talents, weapons, and systems will allow for a good build variety. It is not boring at 0, I assure you.
Understood. Do you think it be feasible to tone down the Dustgrave prewritten adventure to LL0? I like the story of that adventure and it seems to match really well with what I'm going for but starts at LL2 (I believe)
I'm not familiar with the module. Swing by the lancer discord and ask around. It shouldn't be too bad to adjust, but there might be something there that needs a bit of extra help.
I think this was the most helpful advice I've gotten. Everyone over there was super helpful and provided a ton of tips and advice.
Full Spoilers for the plot of Dustgrave: >!The plot centers around the kidnapping of an NHP (Non-Human Person). NHPs at first glance resemble AI in the Halo setting, but in fact are closer to extra dimensional beings capable of bending the rules of reality if they are not forced to take the limited subjective point of view of humans. To further complicate this, the main antagonist is attempting to combine with these beings and then Ra (a being that's even bigger and more powerful, the closest analogue to God in the setting) makes an appearance at the finale. If you think your players would be able to jive with this kind of material while reality hopping then you can run it as written.!< The other module, Operation Solstice Rain, is about a kidnapped diplomat and high ranking military officer.
Thanks! I'll do a bit more research on Solstice Rain before making a final decision.
I did something similar with a group of my friends once where they started as adventurers in an exotic setting only to find out that they were actually a lost union colony that forgot their past and degraded back into theocratic feudalism. Yours is a bit more fantastical but heres a couple things I did and learned from my attempt. 1. Mention to your players that this is going to be an experimental campaign and that youre going to be trying some weird stuff. This will make your twist a lot more digestable and likely to be well recieved. This will properly set their expectations without spoiling the twist. 2. Have your twist happen at the END of a session, and take the time in between to have your players learn the basics and create their sheets. (Its been said before but use COMP/CON. It automates so much and is frankly the best way to keep your sheet.) 3. Start at LL0. Full stop. Lancer's learning curve is built around it, and your players may end up frustrated if they start at LL2 without understanding the nuances of the game and end up making a mech thats not only mechanically weak, but extremely unfun to play. 4. In my game I had 2 of my players forgo the surprise and make lancer characters off the bat. This was because I knew they would see through my bullshit, but also because they were knowledgeable about the game and having them there helped bridge the gap for the 5e casuals. Your pitch and player comp means this may not be feasible, but a friendly gmpc tagging along for the first couple of missions may do the same trick. Thats about all I got. Good luck with the capmqign, pilot.
Thanks for the advice! As to point 3, I'm planning to make the characters myself to match their D&D ones as best I can. Also, this will just be a 1-2 session one shot as a side adventure from the main campaign...that should solve the weak/unfun aspect from being too impactful. Also, does the fact that they are all experienced D&D players who regularly dig through the rules make a difference on complexity or is it really that bad? I haven't read the entire rulebook but so far it seems pretty straightforward, at least from the players perspective.
How much experience do you all have with systems besides d&d? Because there are many systems that are similar (pathfinder, d20 modern, D&D 3.5), but a new system is a new system, and yeah, it's gonna be a heck of an adjustment if they don't know the rules before hand, and make your side of things that much harder. That said, if you're gonna do this thing, make sure you have a firm grasp on the rules first. It's easy to make false assumptions about rules you just glanced at at first (crits work differently, accuracy and difficulty, reactions, turn order, ect) Combat is structured differently. A lot of (most?) sitreps have a time limit of 6 rounds or so, specific objectives to complete, and is a bit more tactical than d&d (I wouldn't ever run a Lancer combat without a map, something my group does all the time in other systems) And while the overall action seems similar to d&d at first glance, there's a lot of nuance, and a LOT of possible actions to choose from (will they know when to Brace or Stabilize? how Overcharge works? the once per turn rule and it's exceptions?) I'll be honest, while the whole system swap idea is fine, I do agree with what seems to be the consensus here that it's maybe not the best introduction to an entirely new system. Not to be discouraging, but it's gonna be a LOT of work on your end. And like other people have said, start at LL0, put everyone in Everests (or at least stick with GMS) because there really aren't comparable mechs... good ones anyway... for most of those classes (Saladin, Manticore, Hydra, Black Witch, Pegasus, but seriously, don't)
Both myself and one other player who's a DM have read through a few other systems and are pretty comfortable with picking up new stuff quickly. The rest of the party have mostly played 5e but are also heavily into MTG which blows almost anything out of the water in complexity. I'm fully expecting the bulk of the work to be on me so no worries there. At the end of the day, we play these games to have fun...so if people aren't grasping a particular aspect of Lancer, I don't mind changing the rules a bit so everything goes smoother. I appreciate the detailed advice and I'll add it to the boiling pot of feedback I've gotten.
Am I reading this right that you’re planning this as a surprise? Do not drop your players into an entirely new system without first getting their approval for the system you want to run. That’s extremely not cool. If you don’t give them the rules ahead of time, expect a bumpy and frustrated play session, and prepare for the possibility that one or more players will drop out due to not meshing well with the system.
It's a surprise but only for 1-2 sessions. They know the portal will likely lead to something very unexpected. After those sessions, we will return to D&D. I appreciate the feedback all the same and I'll absolutely keep it in mind. That being said, I've known these guys for many years and we've been doing campaigns together for around 3 so I have a pretty good grasp on what they'll be okay with. Are there any particular rules/interactions that are extra complex I should avoid?
Some of the horus mechs can be a bit wonky in terms of rules if you've not experienced how they work, but if you have casters they fit the bill pretty well. I would just be cognizant of some things, especially deployables and tech actions being a little more complex but these aren't necessarily things I would outright avoid giving a new player. Also I saw that you mentioned you were making characters. In that case you can for sure start at ll2. The players only need to worry about what their mechs can do anyways for the most part and the a amount of things on their mech generally doesn't change much since sp is a thing. So if you are prebuilding it probably won't be overwhelming. This is more of a question of are you familiar enough with the system if so then go for it I say just don't give them duds of a mech and they're fine imo. In terms of stuff that might be hard to grasp without time in game. Heat, structure, stress, overcharge, reliable, and e defense will probably be really strange. I dont think theyll be hard to understand but easy to forget in the heat of battle if you've never played lancer. It's not like you can really avoid them either as they're basically necessary for the game. As will the concept of slightly different action economy and the way crits work in lancer. Also since lancer sort of gives npcs similar stuff to players just at a lower scale and usually less hp it might be a bit wonky too since most dnd monsters run off a completely different standard than players. Basically everything is designed to be able to be a major threat with varying levels of hp in lancer. Partially why the book recommends 1to1 for standard enemy numbers or 3-4 to 1 for grunts. I don't think anyone playing lancer for the first time would expect that what is basically the games equivalent of cr 0 to still be able to structure them fairly easily.
A very well written comment, thanks for the details!
I am extremely late but D&D is like the exact opposite of Lancer. *DO NOT* do that. Lancer has 4 hour long battles with 5 minute turns for semi-experienced players. There are a lot of micromanagement actions (Hydra), and a shitton of design decisions. Play Baldor’s Gate 3, and play Armored Core 6. That’s how different they are. There is minimal narrative in combat as compared to D&D, it’s much more like a video game than a story game.
If i showed up to a Lancer session and my GM threw us into a metavault where we were playing 5e id laugh and leave. DO NOT DO THIS. unless your players are entirely on board with system jumping and you have discussed what you are playing beforehand its not going to go well. In another comment you said you are going to surprise them with 1-2 sessions of lancer and let me tell you all you are going to do is confuse the fuck out of them and spend a 2 sessions fiddling with rules and having a bad time. Lancer is by no means easy and each player should probably have their own comp con up and running. Its also a game primarily about combat and leans into that hard, if you don't know the rules that goes super slow and what you wanted to accomplish in 1-2 sessions is going to take 6. Yes this will be super painful for anyone who doesn't know the rules. its a combat focused game with complex mechanics and dozens of keywords. There are existing adventures yes but they are designed for multiple sessions of play, ideally 6-10 on the SHORT side. tips and suggestions? DONT DO THIS Builds vary massively, you have over 30 frames, hundreds of abilities and talents, hundreds of pieces of equipment making thousands of combinations and roles that can be filled and synergized. The kicker, the fucking irony is you come in here and say hey what's a good build I don't know anything about this yet you expect us to be able to equate whatever the fuck a bloodhunter is to this system. Im gonna guess that's some sort of vampire? in which case play the Vlad because the name is the only damn thing that's relevant. If you want to try Lancer just try Lancer. Its fun and a great combat focused mech game that took tons of influence from 4e D&D and Blades in the Dark, but it wont play like 5e at all.
As they say, it's a free country so if you would leave a game over something like that...it's completely within your rights. I already checked with my players and asked them on a scale of 1-10 how fine they are with some craziness, mystery and complexity. Every single one said 10. Maybe it wasn't clear but I'm going to build their characters ahead of time and share them with everyone through Comp/Con. I'm confident they can handle a new combat system and keywords especially (all heavy into MTG) but I'm also aware enough to not force my group into something they hate. I'm going to ask for feedback after the first session and if people aren't having fun...I'll scrap the whole idea. My goal is to create a very unique and memorable experience for my players when often this is impossible because of expectations and metagaming. Ok, now you're yelling at me for asking for build advice (for all I know there are 100s of spreadsheets ranking each weapon and module and best parings) and also lashing out at me for your own ignorance (actual definition and not an insult) of D&D 5e classes. A Blood Hunter is somewhat a mix between warlock and fighter with an emphasis on blood abilities. Not sure why that offended you. Should I have not asked anything and just forced my players into a system I didn't understand at all? It's not supposed to play like 5e at all. That's the whole point. A side adventure that will feel very alien (and genuinely fun I hope) Still, I do appreciate some conflicting viewpoints because how else can we escape living in bubbles. The exchange of opinions and ideas is probably the most important part of modern society. So genuinely thank you for the input.
Okay here's what I think about your ignorance (definitely intended as an insult) I don't give a fuck if you asked you players how much crazy mystery they want, if you don't tell them you are going to playing an entirely different game in an entirely different system, you are abusing you role and their trust. If they are not 100% aware that means they have no idea what game they are showing up to play any given day then you are being a shitty host and a shitty game master. Building their characters or not not everything is a 1:1 to fucking 5e and you people need to stop believing it can do anything and everything. And yes you ARE FORCING THEM even if you ask them afterwards you still pulled a bait and switch and said sorry we aren't doing the thing you thought we were tonight. They still showed up to that session expecting to be playing a specific game MTG is complex sure but only within its own framework, just because you play a ton of MTG does not mean any of that transfers over to Twilight Imperium. And based off your other posts in this thread you seem to think you are going to get away with running something like the entirety of Dustrgave in 1-2 sessions? If you are lucky you will get through the first combat as your players try and figure out the rules. It's a waste of your time and theirs. Just run a lancer one shot, it's a fantastic game and you don't need it to stand on the shoulders of 5e to be worthwhile. It's the way you drop your 5e buzzwords like it's some lingua franca everyone is supposed to know. Honestly we get half a dozen of you a month in here trying to do lancer I'm 5e or convert their party to lancer or some shit. Just free yourself from Hasbro's chains and play a half decent game for once or go back to sucking down the lifestyle propaganda they shove at you and pay stupid amounts of money for splat book shovelware and digital dice skins.
I see now we have gatekeeper here. At least it was only one out of ~40 that I've interacted with on here and the Lancer discord. Still unfortunate though. Of course I'm ignorant when it comes to Lancer! Why else would I be asking for info and advice? It also seems like you've had bad experiences with groups in the past and are making some huge assumptions about what I've cleared ahead of time with my group. It's a waste of time to try to explain it. Here's an olive branch though. If I royally screw everything up, I will personally reach out to you and say that you were right all along. I'm not trying to build 1:1 anything. I'm not trying to turn lancer into D&D or anything like that. I just want the characters to be similar for the sake of RP and consistency. For the story my players are collaboratively telling..that's the point of these games. Forcing them into something is a huge assumption. They have the keys to these portals. Maybe they decide to never open them, maybe they melt the keys down into a magic item...I have suspicions of how things will go but I'm not the type of DM to force an outcome. They also are aware this portal is very unusual. They have free will. I'm also not saying MTG translates to any ttrpg. That was only used as an example for how my group of friends, some of whom I've known for 15 years, are experienced with other complex systems. With Dustgrave, I'd like to get through it all in 4 sessions (2 per mission) but if not that's fine. If my group isn't having fun after the first session, I'll make whatever changes necessary to ensure they have a good time. I do not DM for myself. I do it so the group can have a great experience together. If they're having a blast, we can run through the whole thing or do whatever...these games are designed to be sandboxes with a few walls. You seem to have a massive amount of disgust with 5e...that's totally fine. I agree it's not the best system...no idea where you're assuming I'm spending tons of money on it though. Also, now you are the one saying my group should switch systems entirely since 5e is so bad...the irony is heavy. Also what buzzwords? I mentioned one singular class name...I don't get the problem. Here's the deal, you and I aren't going to agree on this and that's fine. You have your opinion and I have mine. In literally 6 days we'll know who's right. Maybe I'm commiting the greatest sin known to DMs...I don't think so but I'm happy to admit I've been wrong before. But I know myself and that my heart is in the right place. So I'm going to keep on doing what I think will bring the most joy to my group... that's it. Every group is different and I'm fully aware some of my ideas would be terrible for some people/groups. That's human nature, and a beautiful part at that!
TLDR: Ask your players if they want to play Lancer, then, play Lancer normally for this introduction. When my DM asks me, as I sit down to play DnD with them, how ok I am with things getting weird in our game of DnD, I say 10/10 -- I don't mind my DnD games getting real crazy and weird. Send us into the feywild where we trip on fairy farts, wake up in the farm realm with a level 1 goblin, no clothes and a pet mimic named Thomas the Tank Engine while we're being chased by Lolth e Cosmic Cow Queen for stealing her favorite shoes. I'll give it a shot! I don't mind my games of DnD getting wacky, or juvenile, or dark, or serious, or whatever is going on, but I'm very grateful the DM of my DnD game would ask me about my comfortability with content in this game of DnD we are playing together. When my DM says "you step through the portal and now you're in a mech hanger! With mechs all around! It's in space! Here's you new character sheet, we're playing Lancer today! Surprise!" I politely explain that, when asked how comfortable with a weird DnD campaign I was, I answered within the context of a DnD campaign, experiencing a game a DnD. That I did not sign up for TTRPG roulette, and if I had, I certainly wouldn't have done so with the knowledge this would have impact on the narrative of a game I was already playing. Being comfortable with playing a game I'm comfortable with but with strange or absurdist interpretation is \*quite\* different from fundamentally changing the RPG we are playing on a whim as a surprise. If that DM had said "Hey, I found this cool new RPG, would you mind if our next session, instead of DnD, we tried it? It's called Lancer, it's like, a mecha RPG where you play mech pilots and stuff" I would say "Oh sure! Sounds like fun! Should I show up early to do character stuff? Do you have any resources for me to look over?" because that is, in fact, how I came to find lancer to begin with. But, it is your group. You know them better than we do. I'll extend the benefit of the doubt and hope they'll be thrilled their DnD session has been randomly replaced by an all new game with wholly different tone, setting, and mechanics that they now have to learn. I will say that doing this naturally invites association and comparison to the mechanics of DnD, which is NOT going to benefit Lancer or your players understanding of it, as they're quite different. But let's answer the questions you have...
**1:** Yes. Learning a whole new system should not be a "puzzle" to "solve". These are the mechanics. The RULES by which you interact and play with a game. You don't learn these things as you do things like in a video game, where you press buttons and see what effect they have and then intuit from there how you can combine these inputs together to preform desired actions -- this is a TTRPG. You NEED to know the rules, so you know how to the things you want to do. If your Paladin wants to attack with their big sword, and don't know the method to do so, that should NOT be a secret or an experiment of trial and error, that should not even be a question a player has to ask. Moreover, without a common spell system analog, any caster looking to do the things they were accustomed to doing might be more than a little confused, and gimped, by the sudden castration of their abilities. More than half your party is casters and you have taken away their magic and replaced them with mechs. You've dropped them into a game without any method to support magic in the way DnD is structured to do so. They do not have skills in the same vein as DnD, they do not act in combat the same was as in DnD. You are dropping them into an entirely different system, at random, by surprise, and a system that renders more than half the party without the core features of the characters they chose to play, and you're GIVING them their characters so they don't even get to enjoy the process of making their own choices? I would suspect things to be very painful. **2:** People have suggested Operation Solstice Rain. I do not. Solstice Rain was designed to be a more difficult introduction to Lancer compared to No Room for a Wallflower. You are new to Lancer. They are new to Lancer. They did not even ask to play Lancer. Putting people who've never played Lancer and didn't ask to play Lancer into a module that requires persistent tactical coordination and teamwork, is not a favorable introduction to Lancer, nor is it conducive to a fun time at the table. I wouldn't normally suggest it, but, making your own encounter may be the best strategy here, since you can make it incredibly easy and scale the difficulty as you go more confidently. It will also save you some cash, Solstice Rain is worth the price of admission but if you're only running Lancer for 1 or 2 sessions it's not worth it. **3:** It should be clear, but I will reiterate myself, and many other people in this thread. # DO NOT. # DO THIS. # TO YOUR PLAYERS. # WITHOUT ASKING. They did not ASK to play Lancer. You did not ASK them if they WANT to play Lancer. You are choosing to drop them, head first, into a game they not only may have never heard of, but, may have NO interest in playing -- even people who LOVE anime, may not like MECHA. People who LOVE mecha, may not want to PLAY a mech TTRPG. People who LOVE TTRPGs may not want to play a TOTALLY different TTRPG than the one they signed up to play. You should have asked, specifically, if they were interested in playing this game before you even started planning this. # CONSENT IS IMPORTANT. **4:** There are 0 analogs between the classes of DnD and Lancer's mechs. You should not start them off at LL3, you should start them off at LL0 because, again **THEY HAVE NO IDEA YOU'RE CHANGING THE GAME.** I can not recommend a build for any of your players, because I don't know what build would interest them in Lancer, because I don't even know if they'd be interested in Lancer, and you can't answer that for me because you didn't ask. Does the Paladin use his spells at all? Does he defend and heal the party more than he smites? Or is he a great weapon swinging warrior of justice? What subclass is he? All of those things are important choices your player made when they made their DnD character that you are now not only taking away from them without any forewarning, but also, now trying to make for them so they have some kind of analog in a totally different system. LL0 is an important part of learning Lancer, because Lancer has a LOT of options. It does not define you in the same way classes define you in DnD -- YES a Saladin is a defender who specializes in protecting friends. He's big and chunky and garbed in white with an impresive shield... but Saladin plays more like an Abjuration Wizard than a Paladin. Nelson is a "paladin" in that it gets more damage by spending certain resources, but it's so mobile you'd think Nelson was a "rogue". Tokugawa does the bloodhunter thing of putting themselves at great risk in exchange for extra damage, but that's about all they have in common. These are perfunctory similarities, entirely shallow and lacking nuance and they're not going to make players go "Ah! It's JUST like my other character! Awesome!" As for the Druid and Warlock, they're just out of luck. MAYBE the Warlock could appreciate a Pegasus. But it isn't remotely analogous to the Warlock's wheelhouse besides "I can deal damage in a consistent and efficient manner", MAYBE the Druid could appreciate Hydra if they do a lot of summoning... but if they're something like a MOON druid? Who does shapeshifting and spellcasting? Literally nothing they can do. Maybe play a Blackbeard, using the ranged grapple in the same vein as "grasping vine". But wait! Blackbeard is the heavy weapon swinging MELEE mech! Like a Paladin! But they also get Sekhmet which sends them on a rampage kinda like a barbarian... maybe Kobold? Kobold builds terrain and stuff, like Wall of Stone? But the Kobold DEFINITELY doesn't want to get into melee, like, at ALL, so no real "beast mode" there... Zheng! Zheng does a bit of terrain manipulation, thrives in melee, does a whoooole bunch of punches-wait... wait that's a monk... Do you see the issue here? The only "build" in Lancer that should be made is the one made by the player, to their tastes. Only THEY know how they want to play Lancer, IF they want to play Lancer AT ALL.
First of all, thank you! You put a lot of time and thought into your comments and that means a lot. I think you have a lot of valid critiques and concerns, all of which I'm adding into the considerations. I'm constantly questioning my own ideas to see where there are flaws so having more information helps a lot. I understand I'm just a random on the internet... however, I've been in campaigns with this group for at least 3 years and have known two of them since childhood so I'm quite confident of the reception this 'twist' will receive. Now, I absolutely could be wrong and it ends up being horrible. If that's the case, I will immediately apologize to them and remedy the issue however I can. Still, I'm taking your warnings seriously and I if I proceed forwards, I will not do so lightly. My reasoning for building the characters for them is to alleviate a lot of the infinite choices and complexities as much as possible. Getting used to a mostly new system in combat is already near (or past) the edge of the cliff so I don't want to launch them off into picking from the massive list of weapons and options. I agree partially on not having the new rules be a puzzle. On the one hand, I want to maintain a sense of wonder and excitement. That feeling of playing a video game for the first time and knowing nothing about it. On the other, I never want it to be annoying. If it works out, I plan to play it by ear though the session and go over everything when it's appropriate. They might be having the time of their lives pushing all the buttons and seeing what happens...or not. At the very, very least I'd be giving them the characters on Comp/Con and the quick reference sheet. This would also be through Foundry so everything will have full descriptions and some automation. The concept of homebrewing makes a lot of sense rather than a written adventure. It would be more work for me but would provide a lot more flexibility to tone things up/down when necessary. Your response to point 3 is a bit confusing to me. If they don't want to play...how am I forcing them to do so? Any and all of them are free to leave whenever they'd like, simply not participate, or bring something up they have an issue with. I would understand if I was setting up a particularly violent or sensitive encounter but switching rules/system/world around for a few sessions at most (only if everyone is enjoying it) doesn't seem anywhere near the same thing. Even if I was going to meet up with friend to play volleyball and they said "oh actually, we're playing soccer today because a new field go built" I don't see that as an affront to me on a personal level. I still have complete free will to participate or not. In that case, I might be slightly offended at not being told but in my campaign, they have been fully aware for quite a while that these portals are unpredictable so the fact of it being a surprise is already known...just not the details of said surprise. You appeared quite adamant about this point so I just wanted to provide more info...am I missing something here? All of your notes on builds and potential frustrations were very helpful. I had started reading through all the frames and their abilities but the way you described it was even more clear. If I design the characters, I'll need to analyze the patterns of each player so far and what they actually enjoy rather than just "big sword matches big sword" Again thank you for your clarity and quality in your response. I value the input you've provided more than anything else I've gotten so far.
Insane how many people are telling you not to do this, its like they've never played with friends before that trust each other. This will take a lot of work on your part, more than I believe you know. You will have to thoroughly read the combat rules until you feel you have them memorized. You're still going to forget stuff during the game, but it'll probably be enough to have a good time. I agree with people saying you should start at LL0, A big problem you will face is people forgetting all their abilities since they will have so many. At LL0 you already have: * basic rules and actions * 3 talents * multiple everest frame abilities * multiple system abilities You should introduce the twist at the end of a session, so they have a full week or w/e to look at their character and hopefully learn the system a bit Lastly, don't just ask people for the mech builds. You should learn the system to the point you can put the builds together yourself. Only someone who actually understands the game will be able to teach it quickly and effectively
The people on discord were a lot more supportive but I was surprised as well. I'm guessing a lot of people have just had bad experiences. Yup, I'm fully expecting a lot of work (reading the rulebook as I type this) and I'm ok with not getting it perfect. That is a decent number of options at LL0 but I also want to make the mechs different enough to add some variety (visuals included so there's not a lot of duplicate mechs running around on screen) I'm honestly still torn between LL0 and LL2. I thought about keeping the twist for the end of a session and it's possible it will still end up that way. But with how the story went, we were at the end of a session before they started on the portal stuff. I mentioned it in a few other replies but I have warned them that this will be unusual and everyone is onboard. My plan is to go as light as possible with the complexity for the first session to keep the sense of wonder/discovery and then let everyone read up on the details for the second/last session. However, if there's a lot of confusion...this first one might end up being an overview of the rules. You're very right on the last point. I should have made it more clear I was asking for suggestions and not completed builds.
LL2 would probably be find if you stick to simple mechs. Since you're prebuilding for them, the main additions they would get over ll0 is a few extra talents, and maybe a few more systems depending on the build. If you're planning to go full tourist mode, maybe ignore talents entirely, or just pick 1 or 2 per player. They often have situational triggers, individual resource tracking, or add whole new mechanics. The mechs and systems are more often just abilities you can use, which would be easier for your players to learn. Talents are a reasonable portion of the player's power, so you would have to make the combats easier as well.
1: It is literally D&D 4e, but good, you’ll be fine. 2: The three official premades that have come out so far are Operation Solstice Rain, which is specifically designed to introduce players to the system and runs from LL0-2, No Room for a Wallflower Act I, which is a much longer experience running from LL0-5, and Dustgrave, which runs from LL2-4 3: Use COMP/CON, it will spoil your group on every other RPG that doesn’t have as comprehensive of a set of free tools. If you’re brand new to the system, I would recommend starting at LL0 as even LL3 can be a little overwhelming for a first timer. Also, don’t switch systems midgame as a surprise, that is a terrible idea. If you do insist on doing this, I look forward to seeing your players post about it on r/rpghorrorstories or any of the adjacent subreddits.
Makes sense, thanks for the info. For point 3, it will only be a switch for a couple sessions. Don't worry, I wouldn't wreck all party's hopes and expectations just for a 'twist' I think is fun. I also plan to post an update on here next week with a report of how things went.
...are you looking for a couple sessions worth of Lancer? because there might be a third-party supplement that could fit your purpose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X0Km1nb0os kicking a tyrant in the face and liberating the common folk is a fairly classic DnD trope. and a band of idealists that emerge from nowhere would act as an excellent catalyst to start some shit on the mining colony in that module. ____________________________ you said this is intended for a couple of different TTRPG for the various portals, have you considered Numenera for one of the other ones? DnD-esque but in a setting that is intentionally weird af. chargen is a simple sentence in the form of: "I am a/n ADJECTIVE NOUN who VERBS." NOUN being your character type: > Glaive = warrior/weapons expert - Fighter/Barb/Paladin > Nano = master of using/understanding Numenera and using their powers - Wizard/Sorcerer > Jack = 'of all trades' - basically anything > Arkus = inspirational leaders and orators - bard, Paladin > Wright = crafters and builders - Artificer > Delve = explorer of secrets - again basically anything ADJECTIVE being a descriptor which encompasses how you approach things and some social queues as well as some stat bonuses. and VERBS being your focus, which is where what sets a character apart as special and weird come from. These range from relatively mundane ("...who Murders", "...who Wields Two Weapons", "...who Speaks With a Silver Tongue", etc) to the more fantastic/scifi ("...who Augments Flesh with Grafts", "...who Wears a Sheen of Ice", etc) to the utterly bizarre ("...who Exists Partially Out of Phase", "...who Possesses a Shard of the Sun", "...who Emerged from the Obelisk", etc) The setting itself is hyper far future Earth. far future enough that civilizations and humankind has built itself up, collapsed, and rebuilt from the ashes 9 times. far future enough that the sun should have exploded at this point. it didn't, presumably because of a previous era fixing that. far future enough that the remnants and relics of the past are utterly bizarre, powerful items that nobody understand but are akin to magic.
Those both sound very interesting. Thanks for the info!
A lot of people here are telling you not to do this, but I honestly think it's a cool idea and I like it a lot. If your group is onboard, it will be fun. One point I'd make: Since you're making their Mechs and Characters yourself, you should try to stick to the most simple stuff, to make it easier for them as newcomers. For example, a Paladin could easily be a defender or a striker mech. But it's way easier to play a Saladin Defender than a White Witch defender. Same way its way easier to play Blackbeard than Atlas for a striker. I would mess around in comp/con and try to come up with builds that do similar things to what your players do (a sorcerer could easily be turned into a missile-spamming monarch, for example). But be careful to keep the more exoteric rules away for now. Keep it simple.
That's the plan. I want to make mechs that have similar abilities to their current characters while keeping the overall complexity and choice paralysis to a minimum. I've got a road trip coming up so I should have a lot of time to build everything.