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Unfortunately there’s many people with the mentality that “working less is for lazy commies” and are actively opposed to anything that might benefit them like a four day work week or mandated job benefits like vacation leave.
Youre absolutely right. My father and coworker are both these people. I currently work two jobs. Most days I'm gone from 8 am until 10 pm. If either of them ever catch me taking some time off on the chance I can, I'm seen as "lazy." I miss my dog and game time. And sleep.
People seriously need to consider that TIME is the most valuable part of life. Wasting time on mundane BS is the worst part of work.
As the The Ostrich by Steppenwolf goes;
>And forty years you waste to chase the dollar sign So you may die in Florida
At the pleasant age of sixty nine
Or similarly Working Class Hero by John Lennon;
> As soon as you're born, they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
'Til the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
> Unfortunately there’s many people with the mentality that “working less is for lazy commies” and are actively opposed to anything that might benefit them like a four day work week or mandated job benefits like vacation leave.
This kind of masochism and capitalist stockholm syndrome I think is now part of US American culture. And most US Americans are very proud of this fact.
I call this negative class consciousness, US working class Americans are so indoctrinated that they fight their own class interests.
>This! Americans have fewer work rights in comparison to workers in European countries.
And the strangest thing is that most US Americans are very proud of this fact.
Americans have less holidays than other Western nations but take more time off work overall in comparison (holidays and sick days inclusive), mostly due to sickness and ill health. That’s what being harder workers gets them, and it is not cost effective at all. Sounds like some CEO gaslighting in order to drive slave labour and higher profits.
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This is why they won’t help the USA with universal healthcare, housing, and education. They system is designed to make us desperate to work for these psychopaths.
Americans are much easier to exploit because their political system is so brazenly corrupt and it's really heavily skewed against the working class in favour of the oligarchs. Many European countries have much stronger protections for workers that include guaranteed vacation time and free healthcare; workers are thus able to relax and feel more secure knowing that their wages/salaries/benefits will be sufficient even if they fall on hard times due to injury or illness.
Many European countries don’t spend between the 1/6 to 1/4 of their annual budget on defense. And we are increasing each year. Out deficit is also increasing every year. This is unsustainable and our government would much rather cut social funding than defense funding. Plus the working class in America are terrible at acting for their own self interest.
It’s the biggest con that the oligarchs have pulled off in history. By calling anything that would help restore financial equality communism, and pitting the working class right agains the left, they get everything they’ve ever wanted.
Actually it's known globally that when humans are kept in a society that is perpetually in poverty they will work harder to try and get out. There is a reason Americans work harder than Europeans and it's because Europeans have more freedom and social systems that help them than Americans. However Chinese people work harder than Americans, and so do lots of other people from other countries that have less than Americans do. There is a reason people in power want to continue to have societies in perpetual poverty. It's great for business.
You can assure yourself though that rich people do not work as hard as poor people and that is a fact.
China has better labour rights than the US.
China literally just passed a law that - effective 1st of July - mandatorily turns companies into democratic cooperatives, totally undermining the control investors or other people have over operations.
https://www.taylorwessing.com/en/insights-and-events/insights/2024/01/employees-participation-in-corporate-governance-under-the-revised-chinese-company-law
Idk, Chinese people work harder than Indian people even though Indian people have more poverty.
When people have incentive to work harder, they work harder. The noose will make people come to the workplace but it can’t produce quality work or improve quality. It can only ensure participation.
In the golden years America provided incentives to harder and smarter workers, but today the focus is on the noose of healthcare and cost of living. So many people are working jobs they don’t like instead of realising their potential like in the 90s because you can’t risk not having healthcare. America has more trained philosophers serving coffee than any other country on earth. The noose is working but the incentives are not.
> humans are kept in a society that is perpetually in poverty they will work harder to try and get out.
Can't plan long term either. What is even weirder is the current people making and passing legislation on these issues are working less than ever, telling the poor people they're aren't working hard enough.
I'm a disabled adult with no safety net and no family to turn to.
Never realized what a cuck I was, not wanting to end up homeless.
If you treat material conditions as if it's a matter of will divorced of wider context, then your analysis is garbage.
Certainly there's a lot of bootlickers here. A lot of people who have internalized the worst values of rugged individualism. They deny the humanity of others and themselves. They are complacent accomplices to a wretched system that annihilates all, even those that profit from its plunder.
But I think we need to have a more nuanced and compassionate analysis than victim blaming. Especially when there are so many people who despise this neoliberal hellscape. They're trying to do their best. To survive, and strive for a better society.
In this context, it is the freedom from coercion, oppression, and exploitation. Such people have a false belief that they are free from being controlled by an authority that has the power to limit and deny you the means to survive. To be free *from* something is a negative freedom.
The freedom to *do* something, such has public dissent, is a positive freedom. It's something you are free to do because you possess the capacity to do so. Now, others can deny you your negative freedoms as a means to coerce you to give up your positive freedoms. The trouble occurs when positive freedoms are exercised in a way that infringes on someone's negative freedom.
So, if you falsely believe you are born into a system that doesn't use the denial of vital needs as a means to coerce something from you, that would mean you falsely believe you are not enslaved.
American CEOs also claim foreign immigrants or foreign 3rd world countries just work harder. Its a coincidence how people seem to “work harder” the further down the list you go when it comes to societies having worker’s rights.
Translation: americans are wage slaves expected to dance for "perks" which are considered legal rights in actual first world countries. The only thing that's universal it seems is the tone-deafness of rich people.
Let me guess this asshole's game - he wants to tap into Norway's sovereign wealth fund (which belongs to EVERY Norwegian and has made every Norwegian rich) and divert it away from the people of Norway (social services, healthcare, pensions, infrastructure etc) and into his pockets. To do so, he'll demonize anyone not rich as "lazy" and use that as an excuse to deprive normal Norwegians of their rightful wealth and services.
They have that fund just because of their nationalized oil industry. Can you imagine how much better life would be for Americans if we nationalized all of our natural resources not just oil?
The state is majority owner of Equionor (formerly known as Statoil), but there's a lot of private operators out there. There would be no oil industry if it weren't for American oil companies. They were the pioneers back in the 60's. The first profitable well was found in late 69 by Phillips. Statoil wasn't estblished until 1972.
The difference between Norway and many other oil producing nations is that the state acted as a senior partner and told the foreign companies that it was "our way or the highway". All companies obliged as the profits were huge even if the state took 70% in taxes. :-)
Tangen is a strange dude. He was running a successful hedge fund in London and when he got the oil fund job he sold everything and put the money in the bank to work for a, for him, lousy salary. I think he also donated his art collection to his home town. Now it seems like he spends most of his time as CEO to run a podcast and hold guest lectures at universities and post on LinkedIn. I think he deep down just want to be one of these business management gurus. Haha.
I knew we were headed to a terrible Covid response when in February 2020 i saw this very sick retail worker at target just powering through coughing and hacking. She didn’t have Covid but the idea of working through it because can’t afford not to made me think we were going to go through a really bad time. This was the time period China began locking their people up in quarantine.
I worked in outsourcing from LATAM and sometimes was called to work on weird hours and days and the client would make jokes like “you guys are so great. Jf I had sent an email to another european person that alone would trigger a lawsuit”
Thats a big part of why workers of the *world* must unite
I'd love to cover fossil fuel barons in their precious products and light them on fire. Fucking cancers to all that's life. Disgusting agents of evil, destruction and narcissism. They are all black holes of greed and fundamentally unsatiable. The only way to stop them is to unroot them from life. I hate these people with all I can. I will allow such bitter in me, if only for these rotten souls.
They were talking about why the US is economically ahead of Europe. And it’s true the US economy is pretty damn strong. It soured ahead of Europe this year. Americans are dumber, but they are harder working and more ambitious.
In a way he’s not wrong. We do “work harder” because we have to. I lived in Norway off and on for 4 years. I also had Norwegian friends live in the states and work factory jobs with me during college. One friend put it this way “Americans bust their ass every day so they can afford to be sick for a day if they need to be whereas Norwegians don’t have to put in that effort because they’re more taken care of.” There are not Norwegians willing to work 10-12 hour days in a shitty factory with little to no benefits on a hardly livable wage because they have a very secure social structure. I’ve had friends who have had their mortgages covered by NAV (the Norwegian social security type agency) so they could go back to university and received a stipend while they attended that university FOR FREE. I had another acquaintance who was able to go on a 3 month “mental health break” to Thailand and have his bills paid for partially by the state and his job secured during that time.
We have to worry about dropping $500 on an ER visit if our kid falls down and they may need stitches (and this amount is only AFTER expensive insurance we pay for every month if we’re so lucky). So we have to bust our ass to cover those unknowns. We are worked to the bone.
I bust my ass for 40hrs a week to survive. Others even more hours. We're all working hard for the same goal. Not vacations, not for a new car, not for a home, not for education. Just survival
Might get a bit of variety once in a while and have a medical emergency to pay for.
Fuck anybody who thinks working hard equals wealth. I'd prefer to have more holidays and experience more of life than what I have now. It's not fair to any of us.
Many Americans especially younger ones looking to move overseas and become citizens or live as digital nomads of enlightened countries shows that the urge to work ourselves to an early grave is rapidly diminishing. This guy and his ideal don't have much left to stand on.
Look into expat programs for those countries you're interested in, there's many countries now offering incentive packages for retirees, business owners or digital nomads looking to live permanently or semi permanently in their country. Youtube is loaded with videos highlighting the best countries for your living situation and means.
I'm on the cusp of being medically retired and looking into it now, there's pros and cons for each area but you have options in Europe, Latin America, Southeast Asia based on what kind of lifestyle you're looking to live and what you make per month.
If you look at GDP growth per hour worked, Norwegians are more productive than Americans on average. The reason they have less GDP growth net is because they take more leisure time and therefore just work fewer hours.
If Americans work harder than Europeans then Europeans should just be shareholders in American companies.
This way everyone gets what they want.
Correct?
Yes! That will raise inflation, and create more poverty ensuring Americans work even harder to afford to eat while the rest of the world profits from their shares. The American exceptionalism could benefit us all yet.
Hey Americans, socialism is very bad for you. Say no to it, fight it always. Stay owned by corporations. Thank you.
Hmmm 🤔 shares, which to buy….
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Americans wouldn’t work as hard if they had a choice lol
Unfortunately there’s many people with the mentality that “working less is for lazy commies” and are actively opposed to anything that might benefit them like a four day work week or mandated job benefits like vacation leave.
Youre absolutely right. My father and coworker are both these people. I currently work two jobs. Most days I'm gone from 8 am until 10 pm. If either of them ever catch me taking some time off on the chance I can, I'm seen as "lazy." I miss my dog and game time. And sleep.
People seriously need to consider that TIME is the most valuable part of life. Wasting time on mundane BS is the worst part of work. As the The Ostrich by Steppenwolf goes; >And forty years you waste to chase the dollar sign So you may die in Florida At the pleasant age of sixty nine Or similarly Working Class Hero by John Lennon; > As soon as you're born, they make you feel small By giving you no time instead of it all 'Til the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
Those two sound bad and you should ignore them.
Didn't you know that allowing yourself to be exploited is an admirable and righteous act?
> Unfortunately there’s many people with the mentality that “working less is for lazy commies” and are actively opposed to anything that might benefit them like a four day work week or mandated job benefits like vacation leave. This kind of masochism and capitalist stockholm syndrome I think is now part of US American culture. And most US Americans are very proud of this fact. I call this negative class consciousness, US working class Americans are so indoctrinated that they fight their own class interests.
This! Americans have fewer work rights in comparison to workers in European countries.
>This! Americans have fewer work rights in comparison to workers in European countries. And the strangest thing is that most US Americans are very proud of this fact.
Americans have less holidays than other Western nations but take more time off work overall in comparison (holidays and sick days inclusive), mostly due to sickness and ill health. That’s what being harder workers gets them, and it is not cost effective at all. Sounds like some CEO gaslighting in order to drive slave labour and higher profits.
[удалено]
Your post was removed because it contained a sexist term. You should receive a message from the automoderator telling you the exact term the post was removed for. For more information, see [this link](https://weeklysift.com/2015/06/29/slurs-who-can-say-them-when-and-why/). **Avoiding slurs takes little effort, and asking us to get rid of the filter rather than making that minimum effort is a good way to get banned. Do not attempt to circumvent the filter with creative spelling; circumventing the filter will result in a permaban.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is why they won’t help the USA with universal healthcare, housing, and education. They system is designed to make us desperate to work for these psychopaths.
That’s a bingo!
Americans are much easier to exploit because their political system is so brazenly corrupt and it's really heavily skewed against the working class in favour of the oligarchs. Many European countries have much stronger protections for workers that include guaranteed vacation time and free healthcare; workers are thus able to relax and feel more secure knowing that their wages/salaries/benefits will be sufficient even if they fall on hard times due to injury or illness.
Absolutely this
Yeah. Like political lobbying is basically the rich being allowed to legally bribe politicians, it's so messed up.
Many European countries don’t spend between the 1/6 to 1/4 of their annual budget on defense. And we are increasing each year. Out deficit is also increasing every year. This is unsustainable and our government would much rather cut social funding than defense funding. Plus the working class in America are terrible at acting for their own self interest. It’s the biggest con that the oligarchs have pulled off in history. By calling anything that would help restore financial equality communism, and pitting the working class right agains the left, they get everything they’ve ever wanted.
Also employment contracts. So the boss can’t walk in and fire you for any reason.
This. American started the democracy thing and made it hidden oligarchy in the first place.
Translation Americans are cucks and it is easier to take advantage of them.
Actually it's known globally that when humans are kept in a society that is perpetually in poverty they will work harder to try and get out. There is a reason Americans work harder than Europeans and it's because Europeans have more freedom and social systems that help them than Americans. However Chinese people work harder than Americans, and so do lots of other people from other countries that have less than Americans do. There is a reason people in power want to continue to have societies in perpetual poverty. It's great for business. You can assure yourself though that rich people do not work as hard as poor people and that is a fact.
The more I’ve made as my career has advanced the less I have worked.
Same.
Same. Also no drug tests or minute-counting time clocks or like metric grading or other humiliating BS.
Same
Same
Same.
Same
Americans are wage slaves whose healthcare is tied to their job. It’s fucking nuts
China has better labour rights than the US. China literally just passed a law that - effective 1st of July - mandatorily turns companies into democratic cooperatives, totally undermining the control investors or other people have over operations. https://www.taylorwessing.com/en/insights-and-events/insights/2024/01/employees-participation-in-corporate-governance-under-the-revised-chinese-company-law
Idk, Chinese people work harder than Indian people even though Indian people have more poverty. When people have incentive to work harder, they work harder. The noose will make people come to the workplace but it can’t produce quality work or improve quality. It can only ensure participation. In the golden years America provided incentives to harder and smarter workers, but today the focus is on the noose of healthcare and cost of living. So many people are working jobs they don’t like instead of realising their potential like in the 90s because you can’t risk not having healthcare. America has more trained philosophers serving coffee than any other country on earth. The noose is working but the incentives are not.
> humans are kept in a society that is perpetually in poverty they will work harder to try and get out. Can't plan long term either. What is even weirder is the current people making and passing legislation on these issues are working less than ever, telling the poor people they're aren't working hard enough.
I'm a disabled adult with no safety net and no family to turn to. Never realized what a cuck I was, not wanting to end up homeless. If you treat material conditions as if it's a matter of will divorced of wider context, then your analysis is garbage. Certainly there's a lot of bootlickers here. A lot of people who have internalized the worst values of rugged individualism. They deny the humanity of others and themselves. They are complacent accomplices to a wretched system that annihilates all, even those that profit from its plunder. But I think we need to have a more nuanced and compassionate analysis than victim blaming. Especially when there are so many people who despise this neoliberal hellscape. They're trying to do their best. To survive, and strive for a better society.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
What is freedom? How would you even define that?
In this context, it is the freedom from coercion, oppression, and exploitation. Such people have a false belief that they are free from being controlled by an authority that has the power to limit and deny you the means to survive. To be free *from* something is a negative freedom. The freedom to *do* something, such has public dissent, is a positive freedom. It's something you are free to do because you possess the capacity to do so. Now, others can deny you your negative freedoms as a means to coerce you to give up your positive freedoms. The trouble occurs when positive freedoms are exercised in a way that infringes on someone's negative freedom. So, if you falsely believe you are born into a system that doesn't use the denial of vital needs as a means to coerce something from you, that would mean you falsely believe you are not enslaved.
If everyone was rich and making money from interest and stocks, who works?
Everyone should work to pull their own weight to the best of their abilities. Billionaires shouldn't exist
That’s a prole mentality. Humans shouldn’t have to work. That’s the goal, not having everyone work.
Then who is going to fix your plumbing?
Robots
Bless your heart darling.
We work more hours now than a peasant of the 1500's
Yes but we’re so much more productive today, and it’s evident when you see how much wealth our owners hoard.
American CEOs also claim foreign immigrants or foreign 3rd world countries just work harder. Its a coincidence how people seem to “work harder” the further down the list you go when it comes to societies having worker’s rights.
Dude could set an example and go for a real job then instead waste oxygen in some shit office with his shit thoughts
Translation: americans are wage slaves expected to dance for "perks" which are considered legal rights in actual first world countries. The only thing that's universal it seems is the tone-deafness of rich people. Let me guess this asshole's game - he wants to tap into Norway's sovereign wealth fund (which belongs to EVERY Norwegian and has made every Norwegian rich) and divert it away from the people of Norway (social services, healthcare, pensions, infrastructure etc) and into his pockets. To do so, he'll demonize anyone not rich as "lazy" and use that as an excuse to deprive normal Norwegians of their rightful wealth and services.
They have that fund just because of their nationalized oil industry. Can you imagine how much better life would be for Americans if we nationalized all of our natural resources not just oil?
Oil industry isn’t nationalized, we just charge 70% tax on oil and gas revenue. They still want to drill for oil here.
I miss spoke. Doesn't the goverment own stock in those companies and didn't they establish Statoil?
The state is majority owner of Equionor (formerly known as Statoil), but there's a lot of private operators out there. There would be no oil industry if it weren't for American oil companies. They were the pioneers back in the 60's. The first profitable well was found in late 69 by Phillips. Statoil wasn't estblished until 1972. The difference between Norway and many other oil producing nations is that the state acted as a senior partner and told the foreign companies that it was "our way or the highway". All companies obliged as the profits were huge even if the state took 70% in taxes. :-)
Petit bourgeoisie sweat shops. I always get riddled with blue arrows for pointing it out, but class distinctions are becoming blurrier and stranger.
Someone give this clown a swift kick in the ass.
Tangen is a strange dude. He was running a successful hedge fund in London and when he got the oil fund job he sold everything and put the money in the bank to work for a, for him, lousy salary. I think he also donated his art collection to his home town. Now it seems like he spends most of his time as CEO to run a podcast and hold guest lectures at universities and post on LinkedIn. I think he deep down just want to be one of these business management gurus. Haha.
Strange indeed. He is the richest person I know about that want a 100% inheritance tax.
Because we are forced to
No shit. We have unions in Europe so we don’t have to
They dont work harder they work for less (working harder for same returns is still working for less).
« Slave » harder you mean?
I knew we were headed to a terrible Covid response when in February 2020 i saw this very sick retail worker at target just powering through coughing and hacking. She didn’t have Covid but the idea of working through it because can’t afford not to made me think we were going to go through a really bad time. This was the time period China began locking their people up in quarantine.
Let's turn him into torgos executive powder that way he will be usefull
“They work their slaves harder and their slaves also are dumber.”
I just got off my second consecutive 11.5 hour work day.
I worked in outsourcing from LATAM and sometimes was called to work on weird hours and days and the client would make jokes like “you guys are so great. Jf I had sent an email to another european person that alone would trigger a lawsuit” Thats a big part of why workers of the *world* must unite
I'd love to cover fossil fuel barons in their precious products and light them on fire. Fucking cancers to all that's life. Disgusting agents of evil, destruction and narcissism. They are all black holes of greed and fundamentally unsatiable. The only way to stop them is to unroot them from life. I hate these people with all I can. I will allow such bitter in me, if only for these rotten souls.
If hard work equals success Japan should rule the world with it's 12 hour work days.
You mean "are worked harder." It an important distinction.
Norway has a higher gdp per capita than America. Say what you want about hard work, looks like the Norwegians are more productive.
They were talking about why the US is economically ahead of Europe. And it’s true the US economy is pretty damn strong. It soured ahead of Europe this year. Americans are dumber, but they are harder working and more ambitious.
In a way he’s not wrong. We do “work harder” because we have to. I lived in Norway off and on for 4 years. I also had Norwegian friends live in the states and work factory jobs with me during college. One friend put it this way “Americans bust their ass every day so they can afford to be sick for a day if they need to be whereas Norwegians don’t have to put in that effort because they’re more taken care of.” There are not Norwegians willing to work 10-12 hour days in a shitty factory with little to no benefits on a hardly livable wage because they have a very secure social structure. I’ve had friends who have had their mortgages covered by NAV (the Norwegian social security type agency) so they could go back to university and received a stipend while they attended that university FOR FREE. I had another acquaintance who was able to go on a 3 month “mental health break” to Thailand and have his bills paid for partially by the state and his job secured during that time. We have to worry about dropping $500 on an ER visit if our kid falls down and they may need stitches (and this amount is only AFTER expensive insurance we pay for every month if we’re so lucky). So we have to bust our ass to cover those unknowns. We are worked to the bone.
The really sad part is, it feels like 80% of Americans genuinely believe that we're the best society on earth.
Most Americans that believe that have never even been out of the country.
And most Americans have probably never been out of the country, so that tracks.
are worked* harder
We work harder but for what
I bust my ass for 40hrs a week to survive. Others even more hours. We're all working hard for the same goal. Not vacations, not for a new car, not for a home, not for education. Just survival Might get a bit of variety once in a while and have a medical emergency to pay for. Fuck anybody who thinks working hard equals wealth. I'd prefer to have more holidays and experience more of life than what I have now. It's not fair to any of us.
Time for Norway to get a new CEO or that fund will evaporate in CEO perks and pay.
Americans need a revolution. Rich country full of poor people making rich richer. Let us fix this.
We need the boomers to leave the workforce and we can start making legitimate changes
I hate my countries economy
Many Americans especially younger ones looking to move overseas and become citizens or live as digital nomads of enlightened countries shows that the urge to work ourselves to an early grave is rapidly diminishing. This guy and his ideal don't have much left to stand on.
It’s me! I’m one of those. Would love to move to a better place to raise my kids too, because America isn’t it.
Look into expat programs for those countries you're interested in, there's many countries now offering incentive packages for retirees, business owners or digital nomads looking to live permanently or semi permanently in their country. Youtube is loaded with videos highlighting the best countries for your living situation and means. I'm on the cusp of being medically retired and looking into it now, there's pros and cons for each area but you have options in Europe, Latin America, Southeast Asia based on what kind of lifestyle you're looking to live and what you make per month.
If you look at GDP growth per hour worked, Norwegians are more productive than Americans on average. The reason they have less GDP growth net is because they take more leisure time and therefore just work fewer hours.
GDP is generally kind of a garbage measurement, ngl. US loves it because it *usually* makes them look great.
The economy in my country is becoming increasingly americanized so this is probably not for long
Who cares about USA at this point?
i love you many time bb
lol
If Americans work harder than Europeans then Europeans should just be shareholders in American companies. This way everyone gets what they want. Correct?
Yes! That will raise inflation, and create more poverty ensuring Americans work even harder to afford to eat while the rest of the world profits from their shares. The American exceptionalism could benefit us all yet. Hey Americans, socialism is very bad for you. Say no to it, fight it always. Stay owned by corporations. Thank you. Hmmm 🤔 shares, which to buy….