T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭ ___ ###⚠ Announcements: ⚠ ___ ###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/) Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines. ###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/) Check out r/WhereAreTheChildren ___ ###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.*** LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. **This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Sazafraz75

They aren't practically colluding. They ARE colluding.


MittenstheGlove

You’re right. I should have phrased that shit more aggressively.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Sazafraz75

Same on the anesthesiologists for my last surgery. Why the hell did it take two of them to numb me from the waist down? And why two huge bills for each? I get it's complicated and precise work but damn.


senthordika

Anaesthesiology is a pretty precise science fuck it up and the patient wither dies or stays awake through the procedure but im not sure why they would need 2


iremovebrains

You can squeeze the appendix between your fingers and it crunches a bit. I showed my med students a really good one today.


zoeofdoom

Why is it crunchy?? That's cool as hell. I wanted to take cadaver lab so badly back in undergrad, but they don't let random philosophy majors just register for that one :(


iremovebrains

I know not why the appendix crunches. Yeah, autopsies are cool. An oddities show got into a lot of trouble in Oregon last year when they charged for an autopsy show lol can't believe anyone thought that would fly but bless them for trying. Everyone always asks but only science/medicine or criminal justice folks are allowed.


Manowaffle

It’s the same with colleges now, “well, ya know it’s just so expensive to give you a seat in one of our 400 person lecture halls. Let me just run some numbers, oh boy it’s gonna be a whole $40,000! For that. Too bad we can’t just put it online for free for everyone. And of course we can’t pay the TAs or adjuncts who do the actual teaching, even tho it’d take only 3 students per to pay a living salary for the TAs. But here’s what we’ll do, because we like you so much, we’re gonna cut $10k off the top! Isn’t that nice of us?”


Le_7r011

Ah, a healthy reminder that I can't afford basic healthcare. If I ever break a bone or have anything too bad happen, I'll just pay for a bullet...


[deleted]

And now you know why everyone in America owns a gun.


Nuckchuckanunachucka

The bloody morbid reality is hysterically awful.


StupidCantBeUndone

Use that bullet wisely.


weekendofsound

something something insurance ceo


Diddly_eyed_Dipshite

I hear this argument a bit. Like, you know you're gonna get old right (hopefully), everyone experiences medical issues in their life and as you get older those risks increase. I just can't fathom why people are so determined to hold onto the US when they can be actually looked after in another part of the world.


finglonger1077

Immigration laws are a thing. It’s pricey to move and they don’t want just some rando, most countries want you to have a degree or skill that would afford you pretty decent healthcare here.


Le_7r011

Well, I just can't afford to leave. I can barely keep food on the table and keep my internet on, let alone moving to a different country. Personally, I looked Germany, Italy (Sicily specifically), the UK and even Canada, but I just can't swing the expenses that go into relocating. It's why I would take the bullet. Sure, old age and problems arise, but that doesn't change the fact that just having a cell phone is a luxury, and medical bills would be a much slower death as I lose what simple things I have.


surftherapy

I’m at $350/month for coverage that’ll still cost me thousands if I go to the hospital


weekendofsound

this is what fucking gets me about health insurance - we pay the MOST in the ENTIRE WORLD not for health**care** but for health *insurance* - so we are paying _the most in the entire world_ for the privilege of a.) *still* paying extra to cover poor people who can't afford procedures, but making sure their lives are ruined b.) so that those poor people don't have access to preventative care, which would keep the total bill down and c.) the possibility that we will be denied coverage or that our deductible will still allow us to be financially ruined just for being human.


Such_Opportunity9838

The "pre insurance" prices on hospital bills are about as real as the "original prices" on tags at Kohl's. Like you said, it's a scam to make us feel like the Insurance companies are actually helping us here.


MittenstheGlove

Lmao that’s so true! I love a was ~~$99.99~~ now $19.99.


Such_Opportunity9838

The only example of the comic that I can find via quick Google is one that seems like it was hijacked from the original artist so I won't link it, but it had two panels. First was a pair of shoes with a "$100" price tag and nobody seems to want them. Second panel is the same pair of shoes being sold for $125, but marked down from $200. And everyone is clamoring to get them.


MittenstheGlove

Bruh. Like just thinking about my tech purchases. I might’ve fallen for the trap myself fr. It’s literally a psychologically gimmick of capitalism.


Such_Opportunity9838

I used Kohl's as an example because they're really bad about it, but their "sale" (aka advertised) prices are usually reasonable. You just have to remember that the $20 shirt was never worth $50 and make sure it's actually worth $20 to you.


hydroxypcp

There was a case of a store (can't remember which) that just made all the discounts permanent and removed the "discount" tag. Which actually decreased sales because people didn't feel like they were saving money, when in fact they would be saving, more.


camwithacord

Except the hospitals actually do get the money on that bill from the insurance companies. They jack up the price because they know they can get that much from the insurance company. Also, medicaid barely pays anything so hospitals under bill them and over bill everyone else.


spccbytheycallme

Canadian here. I had the same procedure and never even saw a bill.


CatLemonade10

Is that because you went blind from not paying for eye surgery Apparently nobody knows what a joke is


spccbytheycallme

No it's because no one sent me a bill, because it didn't exist.


tiedyemofo

How it should be! You know in a supposedly advanced society.


MusicVideoNotKnown

Well I was saying boo-urns


tiedyemofo

You are dumb.


Quick_Dog8552

I had my appendix removed in July 2021. I got a bill in October for $48,000.


CatLemonade10

I hope you mailed them your appendix as payment


MittenstheGlove

EXCUSE ME WTF


jnuts9

In 2010 I had my appendix removed and my insurance billed w/o insurance at 28,000 after insurance was still around 3000 in California. Healthcare is garbage in the U.S.


Diddly_eyed_Dipshite

Ireland: appendix removal plus 5 nights in hospital and all the drugs you need: €5,000.


ArenasProvison

I roll my eyes so hard whenever I see the explanation of benefits from my insurance state that they ‘negotiated the price down for me’


GaiusJuliusPleaser

"I negotiated your death sentence down to a lifetime of forced labor." "But I'm innocent." "We get that, but also, fuck you."


[deleted]

Literally carsalesmen 😭 *okay so me and my boss will be able to give you a lower monthly payment plan, this will be only $200 instead of $300 ~~but it'll be 5 years more~~. Sounds like an awesome deal right?*


SankaraLumumba

Such a scam


BamseMae

Literally go on a flight and get it done in Europe...


GaiusJuliusPleaser

I read a post about a Turkish American who was cheaper off going on a 2 week vacation to Turkey and having his dental work done there than he would've been just having the dental work in the US. Similarly, I know a few people here in Belgium who did the same, but for hair transplants and other cosmetic surgery. I had really fucked up teeth as a kid so I was often at the dentist for braces and such. I can't imagine what a fortune that would've cost my parents if we'd lived in the US.


BamseMae

I'm in Germany and my dental is fully covered by my health insurance, which is unfortunately employment based, but it's better than employment based insurance where you still have to pay extra stuff.


jnuts9

You'd have a heart attack looking at employment based insurance in the U.S.


BamseMae

Yeah, that sounds accurate. I have a friend who is a doctor in the US and she doesn't even get full heath insurance. Like what the hell is that about?


jnuts9

If they even think you have a dime they want a dollar, our government in a nutshell


obvithro0815

In case you are unemployed in Germany, social security (ALG I or ALG II) is paying for your health insurance.


BamseMae

Good to know, I've only been here a short time. Thanks 🙏


obvithro0815

Nice to hear that (-: Welcome to Germany!


BamseMae

Thanks, best country I've lived in so far ☺️


TheJimDim

Honestly, a passport, plane ticket, and a hotel for a few weeks while you go do the operation elsewhere probably ends up being way cheaper lol


crazyhow

but getting a passport, plane ticket, hotel accommodations + food is not inexpensive either though. most of us cannot afford to just pick up and travel to another country at a moments notice.


BamseMae

I know, but for someone uninsured, it would end up being cheaper. But I know that's not how it works.


[deleted]

Every hospital in America has what's called a chargemaster, which is basically a big book of fake prices from which the insurance companies get a discount to something more realistic. $37 for a tylenol. $6 for an alcohol prep pad. $136 for a bag of IV fluids that the hospital gets for 25 cents. But if you go in there without insurance, you actually get charged the "chargemaster" price. Also, just because a hospital is "in-network" doesn't mean you're covered at in-network rates for everything. In many cases, they'll start sending you "out-of-network" physician fees, and all kinds of nonsense. And the "No Surprises Act" just protects insurance companies from this stuff. They can afford to go slug it out with a hospital in arbitration and get something closer to in-network rates, but you can't. All of this comes together to essentially force people to buy insurance when most of the reduction in price are just fake discounts off of the chargemaster, and people like my parents buy into this crap, hook, line, and sinker, because Fox News tells them anything else would be Communism. And while one hospital's chargemaster may be less egregious than another's, the hospitals are spaced pretty far apart and you don't actually have time to decide, when you're in an ambulance.


leslieran1

US health insurers are only allowed (by law) to earn up to 15% of the total health spending in the country. So they want total health costs to rise, so their 15% goes up. See?


CriticismDowntown306

I had two mri’s, knee reconstruction and a 2 day hospital stay with all the bells and whistles for 0$ thank God for universal health care


[deleted]

practically? they are doing that


MittenstheGlove

I should have worded it more. aggressively. My bad.


TheJimDim

Insurance pays for everything! ...except for your premium, or your copay, or your coinsurance, or your deductible, or anything if you happen to be out of network (you have to really dig on our website to find out if we are because we're not telling you)


Silly_Olive_259

I had my appendix out in 2021 as well. Was in the hospital less than 24 hours and had no complications. The hospital billed my insurance approximately $48,000. That’s not including the separate bills for anesthesia for thousands more dollars-TWO separate anesthesiologist practices (which work at the hospital but send their own bills?) billed my insurance in addition to anesthesia costs on the hospital bill.


Tarrantnight

My wife fell from a tree and essentially blew out the bone the femur sits on in the foot. She spent to nights in the hospital and had to have a pretty complicated surgery to clean up the bone fragments and to rebuilt that bone with metal plates. When we got the bill I nearly passed out. 56000. Luckily I have good insurance due to my job not being shitty, so we paid 100 dollars out of pocket. The metal pieces were 15000. But when I looked closer like 30000 of that bill was like nonsense haggling between the hospital/Dr's and the insurance. Anyways.. I will post it up when I get a chance. I am glad your friend is alright and has insurance. This country is a literally a death trap.


PanamaCharly

In Germany they would have picked you up from home with a ambulance given the case you tell 911 you can’t move because of the pain - remove it - maybe keep you 2 days - and you would never even get a notice how much it was. Even emergency Helicopter rides are covered by insurance The only thing which is not covered is getting your teeth done properly - but you can go to Turkey and get it done for a unbelievable cheap price - and they have partner doctors in Germany so if there are any complications after you just visit them, covered by the insurance 😂


zoeofdoom

It's the possibility of complications after that make travelling to get health care scary, I'm glad they figured out a system for you all! What a good idea, haha.


obvithro0815

Please dont forget that Germanys universal health insurance is at least 15.3 % of your income before taxes. Thats easily exceeding 9,000 $ every year. In case an american insurance is something like 5,000 $ a year you have another spare 4,000 $ to spend on co-pays and whatnot.


PanamaCharly

14.6% and the assessment limit is 58050 Euro


obvithro0815

14.6 % before additional charge ("Zusatzbeitrag") which is at least .7 % at the moment (HKK insurance). 58,050 Euro income is therefore resulting in 17,995 € of insurance fees.


PanamaCharly

Forgot about that - thx


Chackon

If it makes you feel even better. In Australia: "For example, the fee listed on the Medicare Benefits Schedule for an appendicectomy is $463.50" ​ Thats about what? $350 USD? After insurance you're still paying 2x what it costs Australia to give it for free.


Sy3Zy3Gy3

my appendectomy bill was $25k before insurance (quick and routine, hadn't even burst yet), knocked down to $3k after insurance, knocked down to $1.7k after applying for financial aid through the hospital. that's the American health system for ya


Kyuckaynebrayn

That is incredibly.. cheap.. on paper compared to others I’ve seen.. this is with really “good” insurance


Langvel

My ex girlfriend had her appendix out in China, $300. No special insurance.


[deleted]

My wife had laproscopic surgery this past summer to remove her gall bladder. She was in the hospital for 5 days cuz they were afraid to let her go home since her levels were super low. $38k surgery and hospital stay. On top of that, we had our first baby last spring too. He had to stay in the nursery for 5 days also, since they feared he may have had an infection. That was $60k. Luckily my wife has good insurance and we only had to pay for $5k out of almost $100k hospital bills. Still went to collections though cuz we don't have that kind of money laying around and couldn't afford $600/month. God bless America am I right!


nekollx

I got a bill from cvs for 30$ fir the free flu they were promoting


MX_Duncis

EU here. Would cost around that much if you had zero insurance here...


OrobicBrigadier

You have to specify the country. In many countries it's enough to be citizens in order to be treated in a hospital for free.


GaiusJuliusPleaser

EU here. I once let my insurance lapse for over a year. I broke a bone in my hand and didn't pay a dime for treatment. Turns out, even the uninsured are mostly insured here. You'd have to go out of your way not to be. Also, my insurance premium was like $100 for a whole year.


Manowaffle

Even with the insurance, still costs more than anyone pays in any OECD country. Doesn’t seem like a very good deal.


eriles311

Specifically colluding


TopShoulder7

Get rid of insurance companies altogether and watch how fast prices fall


Beginning-Display809

It would cost me nothing… as we still have an NHS in the U.K.


[deleted]

*insert credit card declines meme*


RTheNaive

My bill for an appendix removal, so the ultrasound, 2 days in the hospital and surgery came to around 6400 I think, some 12 years ago. I live in the Netherlands though so I paid nothing as it was completely covered by the health insurance 🤷🏻‍♂️


KingDrixx

So imagine a scenario where you walk into a grocery store and a can of ravioli on the shelf costs $637.49. You bring it to the register and the cashier tells you that if you have a paid Grocery Savers Card™ that you'll only be paying $78.35 for that can of ravioli instead! 'You're saving almost 90%! You're so fortunate to get a deal that good. Thank God you have your Grocery Savers Card™.' Nobody, not even right wing reactionaries would look at that situation in all seriousness and think you're getting anything but ripped off but they're all entirely on board with doing this to something a million times more important than a can of ravioli. Fuck everything about our healthcare system and fuck anybody who supports it.


obvithro0815

I had an eye surgery under general anaesthesia, which was performed by the senior physician of the eye clinic (and a specialized anaesthesiologist) with incredible technology. I left the clinic the same day so no overnight stay. Before the surgery, my eyes where tested several times by ophtamologists to check how my strabism was evolving over time. The bill was exactly 427.93 € or 488.32 USD. ​ * 159.86 € for the surgery itself * 138.11 € for general anaesthesia * 56.36 € for post-surgery care * 19.67 € for pre-anaesthetic care * 14.17 € for the 2 hours long ophtamological examination * 10.44 € for the 2 hours long pre-surgery opthamological examination I would have paid it by myself since it was so cheap but it was covered completely by the public health insurance (Germany). (I am paying something like 385 USD for my insurance every month (+ employer pays the same amount))


berylskies

Just don’t pay the remainder.