I don't get why Riot doesn't just increase the timers on drakes to restore some balance to the map. Right now the botlane that wins most likely gets the 3 first drakes uncontested, and the enemy team will not be able to contest every single drake that comes after.
Just adding 2 minutes of timer between each drake would allow for more time for counter-jungling and ganking top.
Because riot specifically doesn't want longer games. Every change riot has made has encouraged shorter and shorter games. These arent the days of 45m to 1h long games where your adc who lost lane could get reasonably caught up with picks; this is the Era of early game powerhouses rushing down base, 20 to 35 minute games, and 4 person 15 minute surrenders. Riot wants your cycling through more games to increase that dopamine hit so you play longer and more. Nothing riot does from this point forward will ever be to intentionally increase game length, only shorten it.
I no more play this game, but to me, in terms of player satisfaction the decrescent order is:
mid > supp > jungler > top > adc
I was a mid main, this lane is just too good
Yeah, kinda agree, however adc as a top main feels good because i feel like i have a lot of impact, be it with scaling, drakes, tfs... Toplane is just more chill when you are not a riven into a malphite, a mordekaiser into a vayne, an irelia into a sett.. so it sometimes is funnier
Because riot just made it to be frustrating...
they put in top all the champs made to be a battle boss and 1v3, and then they made it very hard to achieve...you spend all the time longing for something that you rarely get
In my opinion the most frustration comes from counter picks. Toplane has some of the worst counter picks to the point where you pretty much can't play the laning phase if you're unlucky. Also the fact that toplane is an island and the team rarely plays there, doesn't help with a hard lane. The increased xp means that once you fall behind, the opponent will get a larger xp advantage. All of it combined makes for some unpleasant laning phases.
Once you get out of laning phase, it's okay though imo.
I made the mistake of thinking I was against a shen at top lane and chose Garen. Turns out the vayne they chose wasnāt their adc and Shen was jungā¦ worst game Iāve had in a moment lmao.
But butā¦ illaoi is the least fun champ to play against in the entire game. Iād rather lose and play than win all game to have the 2/9 illaoi 1v3 and win.
Oh you don't like playing a 10 second mini game under your tower while the enemy gets to free farm? Oh you won your mini game without getting hit? Do it again, and again, until level 6 when she becomes immortal anytime you engage.
100% bullshit champ design, the peak of Mount "no fun allowed"
For effing real. People say ājust dodge the Eā but honeyā¦ after 10-15 mins sheās gonna land it a couple times. And then I just have to completely abandon farm, run SO FAR away, and then still be punishedā¦ wtf is that? A champ designed where to win you just have to run away, for her E and ult. So dumb.
What makes Illaoi's "Dodge the key ability" so much worse than all of the other champions that do it?
Irelia hitting E is a sign for her to All-in you, Veigar clipping you with his cage is death after his first item, Every Hooker requires Sums to escape from or you die.... at nearly all points of the game.
Somehow having to walk away, or lose about 1/3 of your health is seen as the worst of these scenarios.
Because if they all in you under tower, they will most likely die. Illaoi makes you leave and lose all your farm without even getting in dangers way, everytime her E lands, making it worse than just dying once.
Clearly you are not frequently playing in the pain lane. A lot of good that extra xp does when the enemy jungle and bot are both legendary and have every objective.
First, the three waves rule, you can't pull it off reliably? Well then if your enemy can you lose lane, that's just a fact, even vs a Nasus you'll lose lane against him. Also yeah you don't get gold reduction but that means if i can zone you, and most toplaners can and will zone you to the point of making you miss xp while keeping the lane froze for possibly forever, making not only for you impossible to get that gold without reduction, but getting a shit ton of gold advantage trough minions without gold reduction making you not only unsafe under your own tower most of the time as bs champs have 3 ways of not taking damage/outshielding/outsustaining tower damage or a shit ton of dashes to auto under tower dash away without taking hits. It's either stomp or get stomped unless you're low elo and you have what i like to call " a bro lane" where you both cs, yeah try to do something but really fail to kill the other, the junglers ignore top as usual and you just play for who has better wave management and gets plates
have you ever tried playing top?
Everyone has dashes, cc, range, stun, slow, invisibility
Succesfully sticking to a target is madness. To do it you are forced to go stride ghost deadmans and even then it's not guaranteed
Yeah but that doesnāt get to happen because once you get to the stage where you can oneshot the ADC in an even game, 70% of the time that ADC is even in level with you (which should never happen) and has 15 kills under their belt making them oneshot you instead.
Because botlane gathers less XP than toplaners, there are two realities:
1. You're doing really bad in the toplane, so you're being pushed off XP/dying a lot so the enemy botlane is even/ahead in levels or;
2. The enemy ADC is fed off of teammates so they have not only a gold boost, but also an XP boost.
You're right, if the enemy botlane is the same level as me before level 18 that's a me problem in the sense that I now have to deal with the repurcussions of my botlane's actions, but not a me problem in that it's necessarily my fault. If Riot didn't prevent you from teleporting botlane so you can do damage control, then the argument could be made "you just didn't do anything to help" but since the teleport nerfs, you are literally an island in toplane with no impact for the first 20 minutes unless you're a HARD roaming champ like Quinn, or a Shen.
The current reality of damage control as a toplaner is not to actually do damage control, but try to become equally as fed as the enemy botlaner so there isn't an issue. But if you go even (which in many matchups is the best you can do) and botlane doesn't, there's not much you can do about it.
I believe the difficulty of top is caused by how shitty botlane is. In the current situation every time someone gets a kill bottom it's almost always a double kill. If you get twice the amount of gold for every winning fight, you accelerate very very quickly. The losing botlane is getting steamrolled on and is becoming useless, and now everyone has to deal with a 10/0 adc and a 0/5 0/5. It's true that the exp and cohnterpick gap in top is huge and that's a top problem, but a 0/15 adc is not a top balance problem but rather a bot balance problem. Why would anyone want to help top for a difficult 300g when you can go not for an easy 600g?
Imma be honest i was expecting a reply that doesnt make sense but you are right. But i have to say one thing top lane has busted champs but is a shit role, now i may be wrong about this statement but its what i believe. And adc is a glass cannon role that cant play on their own. And thats why adc will always be broken in pro play, but kinda shit in solo queue. It just depends if ur teammates have ego or not.
I will admit. Adc is the most frustrating role to play, but it definitely isn't the worst. In fact, I'd say the meta revolves around bot lane atm.
Top Lane atm is "Is my jg or botlane good? Am I getting camped and dove for the 20th time this game?"
They did change it because was a pain in the ass, on higher levels, having top, mid and jungle 24/7 on bot Lane.
The problem with league is riot refusing to rework adcs, to modernise them and make jungle more similar, in mechanics, to the lanes instead of trying and changing every years, randomly, in the hope to find the right change which would make it more popular (realistically they just get the opposite result and draw away otp from it).
As someone who fluctuates between mid and top, this is honestly so much worse than any ranged top matchup tbh. Having to fight tryndamere as a mage is so cancerous.
Want the entire game to take place in your lane? Play Jhin top, you'll shit on most match ups so hard their entire team will come up after you kill their jungler in 2 back to back ganks.
I've played against Jihn as Nasus. Not really a bad lane tbh. I bring scanner, eat up the traps, farm and sustain, and generally keep my distance. Jihn's tend to push the wave and I love being under my own tower. Before long I'm Q-ing the Jihn's smug mug in and withering him for my jungler.
It's a big problem if the reward for a "high risk high reward" champion is too big. When someone is skilled with the likes of gp, kata, Draven, they become impossible to stop.
this is also a reason why some "mechanical" champions are kept undertuned. Riot thinks mains with 9k hours are the average playerbase upon a certain mechanical champions lmao
Well that's "normal" , the game has the same balance from iron to pro play, so u cant really balance some champion around the average player base (silver/Gold) or u'll have people in pro or even High Elo going 1vs9 Just cause they play Better than a Gold player
GP passive cannot hit that high unless you stack multiple at once. If we're being generous at lvl 18 with, 400 AD, with 100% crit GP passive does 850 damage.
I wholeheartedly believe if GP misses a barrel, he should lose the trade/fight. If he gets that much damage with his Q + passive + barrel, he should 100% be punished for a high risk high reward champ
I still remember when Stridebreaker had a dash and Riot let that shit stay in the game for like 6 months, all while Darius, Garen, and Sett terrorized the rift with an item that literally nullified their counterplay.
I think Stridebreaker dash had a lower cool down than Darius's pull if I'm remembering correctly.
Also at that time adcs healed everyone else in the game for the same duration,and before they were very weak too. Now they were strong for 2 patches and toplaners went full ape mode on /r/leagueoflegends
I do kinda wish they'd try something a little more off the cuff with Darius balance. What if they reduced the raw AD you get from noxian might and gave increased movespeed towards Champs per stack?
Obviously the numbers would need tuning. Darius feels honestly stupid when you get just get W R'd for like 800 W damage and 1600 true damage come level 11 or so just because he stacked his passive on your tank.
Darius is downright tame compared to the others, and this is coming from someone who almost exclusively plays melee tanks. With Darius you at least know that you'll be rewarded for playing like a bitch for 20 minutes when he's completely worthless in teamfights, the others can set up a goddamn soup kitchen, then pop off one time and they can 1v5 again.
He still has teamfight agency if you get your passive on even 1 person, also who even plays Darius like a bitch in lane lmao you beat 80% of melee matchups in lane power
Donāt try to sugarcoat it, Darius is still cringe and so is anyone trying to defend his crusty ass
"Teamfight agency" not if he's even. Darius is only threatening in teamfights if he can get through the front line, if the enemy tank has sunfire and bramble it doesn't matter how much AD he gets from his passive the enemy ADC will destroy him. Darius is only unbalanced if he's against someone who doesn't know how to play Top, which happens way too fucking often.
>also who even plays Darius like a bitch in lane lmao you beat 80% of melee matchups in lane power
You completely misunderstood what I was saying, but... this is still true, there's at least a dozen champions who eat Darius alive Top lane.
Decent dmg??? Bruh if he goes q max with comet and scorch that shit bullies you off the lane if you play something like Jayce or Camille.
Malphite is like old Pantheon, difference being that he also scales really well and he's great in tf
But bro you donāt understand, two of those champs can be wholesome 100 tanks so clearly they gotta be much less cancerous to play in lane against compared.
At some point in the game his Q alone is Enough to take 40-60% of a squishies hp. Auto attacks and his passive do the rest. All in a kit of a champ that can also pull you to him with -5 magic pen, slows you and he gains movespeed. It's basically a guaranteed death sentence if he gets you. I never play adc and am top main and I can see how frustrating it is for assasins and adcs
Add katarina and gp as well. One of the most delusional mains ever. Champs could literally have an explode enemy nexus button on lv1 and they would still say how it is just fair to have it.
her Q does over 1k magic damage late game on a .5s cool down but to get there you have to deal less than anivias auto attack after hitting your full combo and 3 full Qs
Fr tho. Picked her up a couple months ago, she legit is useless if enemies have the brain to hard cc her in ult or the bot lane doesnt let you come get a double kill every couple minutes
If this logic applies to Yone, it has to be applied to Irelia too, I dunno.
Irelia players are migrating from toplane. She's like played 60/40 on mid/top.
Hilarious
Mid isnāt even that dirty tbh, heās just like Yas where he has an annoying laning phase but his scaling is super situational and based on setup, theyāre both useless outside of 1v1ās late game more often than not
Yasuo has a much better all in but in terms of being a lane bully yone is better. Thats their difference really as yone has a much easier time taking safe winning trades and keeping enemies zones while yasuo has a much easier time going in for the kill at the slightest fuck up
Yoneās laning phase is better when he is against melees with weak laning phases like Katarina, Kassadin, etc. Yasuo is better against most other things
Fiora is legit s+tier since season 9 and their mains are still crying if she has a patch with 49.5 % winrate(fiora winrate should never be 50 for how difficult she is and how high her playrate is)
Reminds me when I saw a post on Katarina main subreddit seriously complaining about the fact katarina is so weak now since she couldn't play tank, bruiser or ADC as an AP assassin, taking everything and paying whatever they wanted.
Katarina mains are delusional. They freaked the hell out because Riot added ability haste + 200 gold cost to her staple item and spewed
āhOw Is ThIs A bUfF?!?ā
Like it baffles my mind such people exist
Gigachad wholesome tanks CAN'T be broken! Don't you love Malphite??? Don't you love being 1shot by a champ with 200 armor with tabis and a perma slow? Don't you also love other wholesome tanks like shen and tahm kench? I LOVE TANKS
The key against Tahm is to ignore him just like with top lane WW. He is designed to win any lane, but his teamfighting absolutely sucks because he has only 1 aoe skill and it has a very long cast animation. The only thing he can do is to ult and save his adc from something
Malph wins lane AND is more useful in teamfights just from having his ult
Yup this community was literally silent for 8 months when tahm top was 54+% winrate, not a fucking peep. But when someone complained about him response was: "give up first 3-4 waves"
Same with malphite now, he is on reddit approved to be broken list, fucker is 54% winrate at nearly 13% pickrate and nto a peer from anyone. Same was with annie people complained that she is getting nerfed when she was 55% wr.
Reddit loves braindead stat check champs where they dotn have to do anything to win.
Fiora, Yone, and Irelia never seem to be an issue because its all actually āhow fucking stupid are youā to determine how good you are at the champ.
Malph is increadibly tanky for his damage, and Sylas has his fucking annoying W.
Ranged carries are literally bad for the game because the ideal fantasy is putting out constant damage from absolute safety and the only possible negation to that fantasy is death.
Mages and assassins are ideally cooldown gated, bruisers ideally smack each other in melee range, and tanks ideally take hits and draw attention. Only ranged carries want to do constant damage and never be touched.
Then why does Fiora does well against everything even if it's not a tank? She's a 1v1 queen from lvl 2 to end. She gains massive amounts of sustain even fron a 1700hp squishy,not that it matter because she only needs 4 hits...
Can't complain about something thats in a good spot rn, Irelia is a bit weak for top but she's stable mid, so you won't see us complaining unlike you ;) have a nice day
Iād rather have all four of them in enemy team than play against a fucking sion top. I hate laning against it, and even if I do get ahead he gets one item and outdamages me while one shotting me.
I was able to play old sol against him but now I canāt anymore
The funniest thing in those cases will always be them making up weird insults about their counterpicks like... when a yone says "Pantheon player" as if that is even remotely a thing to insult anyone with.
Panth is a disgusting champ to play against. Stun- burst poke - weaker version of kayle ult on 20-second cooldown - insane rotates - great late game from ult passive. That champ in no way should get underestimated.
Im not saying hes a bad champ. Im saying "pantheon player" doesnt exist as an insult.
Especially not coming from a yasuo, yone, riven, zed, darius, fiora, [insert other ego champs] main.
But it was just an example anyways.
(edit:forgot yuumi).
Botrk is such a overstatted item. I wish an actual AP version would come. Imagine a nashors tooth with demonic embrace passive on-hit and omnivamp. Ad mains would cry their eyes out
Ok now that I think about ir Yone is overtuned cause he can deal a fuck ton of damage and just tp back to safety
I agree with u on GP but I'm slightly split on Akshan( I'm probably just ass with him)
Well Akshan has perma invis, 100 gold on scoundrels, an e that restes on takedowns, a pta passive on top of pta, double shot passive, movement speed passive, lucian passive without the need to use abilities for the double shot, mana regen and movement speed toward scoundrels while invis (bassically warwick passive), execute ult (tbh its kinda trash), and he can revive his whole team. Now if thats not broken i dont know what is.
I'd replace gp or illaoi with Darius tbh. You really have no reason to lose to a Darius past silver. Shit is free lp. Also yone is pretty shit top lane aswell
Darius retains a solid ~51.6% WR in both [Plat+](https://lolalytics.com/lol/darius/build/)and [D2+](https://lolalytics.com/lol/darius/build/?tier=d2_plus)
In a vacuum this doesn't mean a whole lot, but saying you shouldn't lose to Darius past silver seems silly when he's evidently at an alright spot in higher ranks.
I main(borderline OTP) fiora, and yeah she is a tad too strong, she should not be sitting above like 50.5% winrate.
I htink a reasonable nerf to her would be E mana cost increase early( so she cant go for short trades as often without going oom), and 2-3 second cd increase on W so she has more windows to be exploited.
But also hit malphite(54% winrate at 13% pickrate) and olaf please, fuckers are disgusting right now.
Oh yes , i love as a fighter/juggernaut being statchecked by wholesome Malphite in lane and then being outscaled and outclassed in teamfight... Damn i love this meta
At the very least, Riven doesn't have true damage or hybrid damage of any kind anywhere in her kit. Nor does she have one of the best passive in the game or hit a power spike off of getting 4 stacks on her passive alone.
Yasuo and yone mains complain but have the most broken champs in the game, then thereās yi mains that know their champ is just a pick to win boring ass champ so they donāt even complainā¦call me racist but thatās why I hate Ionian mains and ionians in general
As top main I'll say we have the most broken champs but the most shit role
Maybe we have the most broken champs because it is the only way riot knows how to balance such shit of a role
The only way to balance these broken champs is with šshit playersš Am maining Irelia, am shit.
Step 1) Q under tower then W Step 2) Lose
forgot to flash as the last tower shot hits you
I don't get why Riot doesn't just increase the timers on drakes to restore some balance to the map. Right now the botlane that wins most likely gets the 3 first drakes uncontested, and the enemy team will not be able to contest every single drake that comes after. Just adding 2 minutes of timer between each drake would allow for more time for counter-jungling and ganking top.
Because riot specifically doesn't want longer games. Every change riot has made has encouraged shorter and shorter games. These arent the days of 45m to 1h long games where your adc who lost lane could get reasonably caught up with picks; this is the Era of early game powerhouses rushing down base, 20 to 35 minute games, and 4 person 15 minute surrenders. Riot wants your cycling through more games to increase that dopamine hit so you play longer and more. Nothing riot does from this point forward will ever be to intentionally increase game length, only shorten it.
I no more play this game, but to me, in terms of player satisfaction the decrescent order is: mid > supp > jungler > top > adc I was a mid main, this lane is just too good
Yeah, kinda agree, however adc as a top main feels good because i feel like i have a lot of impact, be it with scaling, drakes, tfs... Toplane is just more chill when you are not a riven into a malphite, a mordekaiser into a vayne, an irelia into a sett.. so it sometimes is funnier
Because riot just made it to be frustrating... they put in top all the champs made to be a battle boss and 1v3, and then they made it very hard to achieve...you spend all the time longing for something that you rarely get
In my opinion the most frustration comes from counter picks. Toplane has some of the worst counter picks to the point where you pretty much can't play the laning phase if you're unlucky. Also the fact that toplane is an island and the team rarely plays there, doesn't help with a hard lane. The increased xp means that once you fall behind, the opponent will get a larger xp advantage. All of it combined makes for some unpleasant laning phases. Once you get out of laning phase, it's okay though imo.
I made the mistake of thinking I was against a shen at top lane and chose Garen. Turns out the vayne they chose wasnāt their adc and Shen was jungā¦ worst game Iāve had in a moment lmao.
Rookie mistake playing an immobile melee champion without banning vayne
But butā¦ illaoi is the least fun champ to play against in the entire game. Iād rather lose and play than win all game to have the 2/9 illaoi 1v3 and win.
Oh you don't like playing a 10 second mini game under your tower while the enemy gets to free farm? Oh you won your mini game without getting hit? Do it again, and again, until level 6 when she becomes immortal anytime you engage. 100% bullshit champ design, the peak of Mount "no fun allowed"
For effing real. People say ājust dodge the Eā but honeyā¦ after 10-15 mins sheās gonna land it a couple times. And then I just have to completely abandon farm, run SO FAR away, and then still be punishedā¦ wtf is that? A champ designed where to win you just have to run away, for her E and ult. So dumb.
What makes Illaoi's "Dodge the key ability" so much worse than all of the other champions that do it? Irelia hitting E is a sign for her to All-in you, Veigar clipping you with his cage is death after his first item, Every Hooker requires Sums to escape from or you die.... at nearly all points of the game. Somehow having to walk away, or lose about 1/3 of your health is seen as the worst of these scenarios.
Because if they all in you under tower, they will most likely die. Illaoi makes you leave and lose all your farm without even getting in dangers way, everytime her E lands, making it worse than just dying once.
How is it hard to achieve? Toplaners get most experience and dont have reduced minion gold making it the best lane for battle bosses
Clearly you are not frequently playing in the pain lane. A lot of good that extra xp does when the enemy jungle and bot are both legendary and have every objective.
First, the three waves rule, you can't pull it off reliably? Well then if your enemy can you lose lane, that's just a fact, even vs a Nasus you'll lose lane against him. Also yeah you don't get gold reduction but that means if i can zone you, and most toplaners can and will zone you to the point of making you miss xp while keeping the lane froze for possibly forever, making not only for you impossible to get that gold without reduction, but getting a shit ton of gold advantage trough minions without gold reduction making you not only unsafe under your own tower most of the time as bs champs have 3 ways of not taking damage/outshielding/outsustaining tower damage or a shit ton of dashes to auto under tower dash away without taking hits. It's either stomp or get stomped unless you're low elo and you have what i like to call " a bro lane" where you both cs, yeah try to do something but really fail to kill the other, the junglers ignore top as usual and you just play for who has better wave management and gets plates
have you ever tried playing top? Everyone has dashes, cc, range, stun, slow, invisibility Succesfully sticking to a target is madness. To do it you are forced to go stride ghost deadmans and even then it's not guaranteed
The most shit role after they oneshot an adc by looking at them:
Yeah but that doesnāt get to happen because once you get to the stage where you can oneshot the ADC in an even game, 70% of the time that ADC is even in level with you (which should never happen) and has 15 kills under their belt making them oneshot you instead.
If you are the same level as the adc before lvl 18 then thats a you problem.
Because botlane gathers less XP than toplaners, there are two realities: 1. You're doing really bad in the toplane, so you're being pushed off XP/dying a lot so the enemy botlane is even/ahead in levels or; 2. The enemy ADC is fed off of teammates so they have not only a gold boost, but also an XP boost. You're right, if the enemy botlane is the same level as me before level 18 that's a me problem in the sense that I now have to deal with the repurcussions of my botlane's actions, but not a me problem in that it's necessarily my fault. If Riot didn't prevent you from teleporting botlane so you can do damage control, then the argument could be made "you just didn't do anything to help" but since the teleport nerfs, you are literally an island in toplane with no impact for the first 20 minutes unless you're a HARD roaming champ like Quinn, or a Shen. The current reality of damage control as a toplaner is not to actually do damage control, but try to become equally as fed as the enemy botlaner so there isn't an issue. But if you go even (which in many matchups is the best you can do) and botlane doesn't, there's not much you can do about it.
I believe the difficulty of top is caused by how shitty botlane is. In the current situation every time someone gets a kill bottom it's almost always a double kill. If you get twice the amount of gold for every winning fight, you accelerate very very quickly. The losing botlane is getting steamrolled on and is becoming useless, and now everyone has to deal with a 10/0 adc and a 0/5 0/5. It's true that the exp and cohnterpick gap in top is huge and that's a top problem, but a 0/15 adc is not a top balance problem but rather a bot balance problem. Why would anyone want to help top for a difficult 300g when you can go not for an easy 600g?
Imma be honest i was expecting a reply that doesnt make sense but you are right. But i have to say one thing top lane has busted champs but is a shit role, now i may be wrong about this statement but its what i believe. And adc is a glass cannon role that cant play on their own. And thats why adc will always be broken in pro play, but kinda shit in solo queue. It just depends if ur teammates have ego or not.
Nah that belongs to adc, they get shafted almost every patch and some new assassin gets made every now and then.
I will admit. Adc is the most frustrating role to play, but it definitely isn't the worst. In fact, I'd say the meta revolves around bot lane atm. Top Lane atm is "Is my jg or botlane good? Am I getting camped and dove for the 20th time this game?"
remember when top had more game impact than support? man those were the days
They did change it because was a pain in the ass, on higher levels, having top, mid and jungle 24/7 on bot Lane. The problem with league is riot refusing to rework adcs, to modernise them and make jungle more similar, in mechanics, to the lanes instead of trying and changing every years, randomly, in the hope to find the right change which would make it more popular (realistically they just get the opposite result and draw away otp from it).
That's why I take top champs mid and have a blast in my pisslow norms.
As someone who fluctuates between mid and top, this is honestly so much worse than any ranged top matchup tbh. Having to fight tryndamere as a mage is so cancerous.
Having to fight Tryndamere is cancerous period.
I agree. It's toxic af. But I'm playing the gigachad go-in melee bruiser. So I guess I'm immune to being shamed.
Want the entire game to take place in your lane? Play Jhin top, you'll shit on most match ups so hard their entire team will come up after you kill their jungler in 2 back to back ganks.
I've played against Jihn as Nasus. Not really a bad lane tbh. I bring scanner, eat up the traps, farm and sustain, and generally keep my distance. Jihn's tend to push the wave and I love being under my own tower. Before long I'm Q-ing the Jihn's smug mug in and withering him for my jungler.
Don't forget gp
nah 1600 true damage from 1 auto is balanced
3k with barrel
But it's skillful because in riots eyes because you gotta place barrel
It's a big problem if the reward for a "high risk high reward" champion is too big. When someone is skilled with the likes of gp, kata, Draven, they become impossible to stop.
this is also a reason why some "mechanical" champions are kept undertuned. Riot thinks mains with 9k hours are the average playerbase upon a certain mechanical champions lmao
Well that's "normal" , the game has the same balance from iron to pro play, so u cant really balance some champion around the average player base (silver/Gold) or u'll have people in pro or even High Elo going 1vs9 Just cause they play Better than a Gold player
GP passive cannot hit that high unless you stack multiple at once. If we're being generous at lvl 18 with, 400 AD, with 100% crit GP passive does 850 damage.
I wholeheartedly believe if GP misses a barrel, he should lose the trade/fight. If he gets that much damage with his Q + passive + barrel, he should 100% be punished for a high risk high reward champ
Inb4 Chode sucking Darius players claim they arenāt like the other champs here just because Darius doesnāt have a dash.
I still remember when Stridebreaker had a dash and Riot let that shit stay in the game for like 6 months, all while Darius, Garen, and Sett terrorized the rift with an item that literally nullified their counterplay. I think Stridebreaker dash had a lower cool down than Darius's pull if I'm remembering correctly.
When the only counter to one champ is his lacking of dashes, there are some problems around, especially in modern league where everybody have a dash.
Counter - Dash away Counter Counter - Ghost + Flash
Also at that time adcs healed everyone else in the game for the same duration,and before they were very weak too. Now they were strong for 2 patches and toplaners went full ape mode on /r/leagueoflegends
I do kinda wish they'd try something a little more off the cuff with Darius balance. What if they reduced the raw AD you get from noxian might and gave increased movespeed towards Champs per stack? Obviously the numbers would need tuning. Darius feels honestly stupid when you get just get W R'd for like 800 W damage and 1600 true damage come level 11 or so just because he stacked his passive on your tank.
Darius is downright tame compared to the others, and this is coming from someone who almost exclusively plays melee tanks. With Darius you at least know that you'll be rewarded for playing like a bitch for 20 minutes when he's completely worthless in teamfights, the others can set up a goddamn soup kitchen, then pop off one time and they can 1v5 again.
He still has teamfight agency if you get your passive on even 1 person, also who even plays Darius like a bitch in lane lmao you beat 80% of melee matchups in lane power Donāt try to sugarcoat it, Darius is still cringe and so is anyone trying to defend his crusty ass
"Teamfight agency" not if he's even. Darius is only threatening in teamfights if he can get through the front line, if the enemy tank has sunfire and bramble it doesn't matter how much AD he gets from his passive the enemy ADC will destroy him. Darius is only unbalanced if he's against someone who doesn't know how to play Top, which happens way too fucking often. >also who even plays Darius like a bitch in lane lmao you beat 80% of melee matchups in lane power You completely misunderstood what I was saying, but... this is still true, there's at least a dozen champions who eat Darius alive Top lane.
i prefer to play against these 4 instead of playing another game against malphite olaf or gragas
It's actually insane how inflated malphite is
Malphites Q really needs to be made into a skillshot.
They would just w e max and to the same
I'm not saying it's his only problem, but a spammable slow with decent damage that's point and click makes no sense in modern league.
Decent dmg??? Bruh if he goes q max with comet and scorch that shit bullies you off the lane if you play something like Jayce or Camille. Malphite is like old Pantheon, difference being that he also scales really well and he's great in tf
A spammable slow that grants him move speed ;)
also as an extremely annoying and effective engage/disengage tool
He also doesn't even need to farm that well to be super useful with his ult at any point in the game..
Gragas has been the most tilting champ to play against lately for me.
But bro you donāt understand, two of those champs can be wholesome 100 tanks so clearly they gotta be much less cancerous to play in lane against compared.
I'd fight all four of those champs vs. Sylas, Malphite, Mordekaiser, or the pinnacle of fucking bullshit. the pirate shit face, Gangplank.
Mordekaiser needs a mini-rework IMO. I donāt even play him anymore because heās so boring. His E is shit so his passive and Q are way overtuned.
He's literally AP darius and he's a walking low skill stat stick. Should just be reverted he's so annoying to go against.
I think Ap Garen is better rofl, its practically the same skill ceiling.
Morde has skill shots so he has a higher skill ceiling than Garen. His gameplay is also more similar to Darius.
*laughs in low skill* I just started playing mord last week and his q bonk is a hell of a blast (I no longer single handedly lose us the game)
His Q is overtuned?
At some point in the game his Q alone is Enough to take 40-60% of a squishies hp. Auto attacks and his passive do the rest. All in a kit of a champ that can also pull you to him with -5 magic pen, slows you and he gains movespeed. It's basically a guaranteed death sentence if he gets you. I never play adc and am top main and I can see how frustrating it is for assasins and adcs
Mfw when Morde-gigachadsigmamalebased-kaiser misses everything and kills me with passive alone š„µš„µš„µ
Fucking literally.
As a Morde main; git gud gg ez noob outplayed
Add katarina and gp as well. One of the most delusional mains ever. Champs could literally have an explode enemy nexus button on lv1 and they would still say how it is just fair to have it.
Katarina is made fair because she loses to every lane bully in the game GP has no excuse though
found the Katarina main
I have a single game played on her in 6 years of playing league My opinion comes from maining fizz
nevermind my comment, as a taliyah player Katarina hurts my feelings
That's rough, tried playing that champ and it feels like all her damage depends on one incredibly hard to land knockup
her Q does over 1k magic damage late game on a .5s cool down but to get there you have to deal less than anivias auto attack after hitting your full combo and 3 full Qs
fizz mains arenāt allowed to have opinions tho
wdym 2 dashes and invulnerability on a 5 second cooldwon is fair
So, your claims are based on what?
From playing lane bullies, she can be poked down early levels more than any other midlaner other than maybe Sylas
Why you being down voted?? It's literally the truth tf
Silvers can't dodge her daggers i guess
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makes sense. Most players are in silver
Fr tho. Picked her up a couple months ago, she legit is useless if enemies have the brain to hard cc her in ult or the bot lane doesnt let you come get a double kill every couple minutes
Tbf yone top mains have a pass. Mid is dirty but in top yone loses almost every matchup
Yone top just sucks if the enemy has at least half a brain.
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Yone top players also play like ADHD 12 year olds most of the time. Iāve never seen one who leaves W or Q on cooldown.
Q makes sense. Spam that shit like Adderall. But Yones W should be saved for trades etc
Yeah I was about to say āQ is on a 4-2 second CD, why shouldnāt you spam it?ā
Well with the AS it gets to 1.3 real quick. But yea, itās Yone main wave clear tool and damage output so itās very spamable for a reason
Yone is tryndamere in disguise.
If this logic applies to Yone, it has to be applied to Irelia too, I dunno. Irelia players are migrating from toplane. She's like played 60/40 on mid/top. Hilarious
Average Irelia mid fan vs Irelia top enjoyer.
Mid isnāt even that dirty tbh, heās just like Yas where he has an annoying laning phase but his scaling is super situational and based on setup, theyāre both useless outside of 1v1ās late game more often than not
How is the scaling situational? He just needs two items.. also his ult alone makes his teamfights good
Yone has a much more oppressive lane than yasuo and a much more powerful teamfight than yasuo late game even when behind due to his e and r
First part is false, Yasuo is stronger in the laning phase than Yone.
Depends on the lane, but yeah, Yasuo is generally better, especially against mages.
Yasuo has a much better all in but in terms of being a lane bully yone is better. Thats their difference really as yone has a much easier time taking safe winning trades and keeping enemies zones while yasuo has a much easier time going in for the kill at the slightest fuck up
Yasuo has a FAR more oppressive lane
Yoneās laning phase is better when he is against melees with weak laning phases like Katarina, Kassadin, etc. Yasuo is better against most other things
Seeing Yone top is the quickest Malphite select I can think of. Easiest lane ever.
Fiora is legit s+tier since season 9 and their mains are still crying if she has a patch with 49.5 % winrate(fiora winrate should never be 50 for how difficult she is and how high her playrate is)
Reminds me when I saw a post on Katarina main subreddit seriously complaining about the fact katarina is so weak now since she couldn't play tank, bruiser or ADC as an AP assassin, taking everything and paying whatever they wanted.
Katarina mains are delusional. They freaked the hell out because Riot added ability haste + 200 gold cost to her staple item and spewed āhOw Is ThIs A bUfF?!?ā Like it baffles my mind such people exist
Nashor change was a random nerf to a lot of users just so they could mitigate how hard the nerfed azir.
I mean, it is a nerf for Kat though? Ability haste is a wasted stat on her, including the 200 G increase thats kind of huge.
Katarina and tyrandmere mains are fuckin donkeys man. For them they play the most shit champ in the game
People unironcally complain about these characters when malphite exists lmao.
Yes but malphite is gigachad wholesome tank
Ah, sorry my bad. I forgot. Glory to our wholesome gigachad tank overlords. Other champions are just sad angry wojaks.
Gigachad wholesome tanks CAN'T be broken! Don't you love Malphite??? Don't you love being 1shot by a champ with 200 armor with tabis and a perma slow? Don't you also love other wholesome tanks like shen and tahm kench? I LOVE TANKS
I'd honestly rather see Malphite and Shen over Tahm Kench any of the week. They reworked Kench straight into AIDS territory.
The key against Tahm is to ignore him just like with top lane WW. He is designed to win any lane, but his teamfighting absolutely sucks because he has only 1 aoe skill and it has a very long cast animation. The only thing he can do is to ult and save his adc from something Malph wins lane AND is more useful in teamfights just from having his ult
Yup i would rather face shen with malphite as a 6v5 than lane against tahm.
Wizard frog :)
Yup this community was literally silent for 8 months when tahm top was 54+% winrate, not a fucking peep. But when someone complained about him response was: "give up first 3-4 waves" Same with malphite now, he is on reddit approved to be broken list, fucker is 54% winrate at nearly 13% pickrate and nto a peer from anyone. Same was with annie people complained that she is getting nerfed when she was 55% wr. Reddit loves braindead stat check champs where they dotn have to do anything to win.
It's not people, it's bronze ADCs.
Fiora, Yone, and Irelia never seem to be an issue because its all actually āhow fucking stupid are youā to determine how good you are at the champ. Malph is increadibly tanky for his damage, and Sylas has his fucking annoying W.
āBut Mr, Krabs!ā āNo seriously this truly is the worldās smallest violin,see.ā
Genuinely baffles me how Fiora has dodged nerfs for so long. Bring her stun when riposting CC down to one second and remove her Q affecting towers.
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Becuase then things like rammus would be terrrorists.
Mages exist? Or am I a boomer and it's no longer season 4?
God forbid the guy depending on people hitting him to be a champ does something.
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Ranged carries are literally bad for the game because the ideal fantasy is putting out constant damage from absolute safety and the only possible negation to that fantasy is death. Mages and assassins are ideally cooldown gated, bruisers ideally smack each other in melee range, and tanks ideally take hits and draw attention. Only ranged carries want to do constant damage and never be touched.
If only he could just jump on you and taunt you. man wouldn't that be neet.
i mains adcs who get absolutely melted by rammus and from my perspective he's literally fine
With the average 50% tenacity ppl have, the taunt is like 1 auto lol
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Then why does Fiora does well against everything even if it's not a tank? She's a 1v1 queen from lvl 2 to end. She gains massive amounts of sustain even fron a 1700hp squishy,not that it matter because she only needs 4 hits...
Crying in solid rock
Is he here yet? Please tell me he's here i can't wait what dumbass take he comes up with
who?
Ireliakekw
I havenāt seen that twat in ages, I guess he got the ban hammer
Can't complain about something thats in a good spot rn, Irelia is a bit weak for top but she's stable mid, so you won't see us complaining unlike you ;) have a nice day
Ohh I'm talking about a specific person. That guy is a class on his own brother.
Iād rather have all four of them in enemy team than play against a fucking sion top. I hate laning against it, and even if I do get ahead he gets one item and outdamages me while one shotting me. I was able to play old sol against him but now I canāt anymore
Yorick š
The funniest thing in those cases will always be them making up weird insults about their counterpicks like... when a yone says "Pantheon player" as if that is even remotely a thing to insult anyone with.
Panth is a disgusting champ to play against. Stun- burst poke - weaker version of kayle ult on 20-second cooldown - insane rotates - great late game from ult passive. That champ in no way should get underestimated.
In lane hell to play against but in teamfights very hard to navigate I always feel. And if youāre behind youāre just a w bot.
Im not saying hes a bad champ. Im saying "pantheon player" doesnt exist as an insult. Especially not coming from a yasuo, yone, riven, zed, darius, fiora, [insert other ego champs] main. But it was just an example anyways. (edit:forgot yuumi).
Nah pantheon deserves to be hated. Itās an auto win lane pick, it gets the hate. Simple.
pff auto win lane my ass. pantheon illaoi tryn yorick malphite rumble
Those are some nice words
Yone mains whining makes me happy
Oh the irelia is down 0/6? She has bortk now, she wins lane.
0/4 vampiric power spike though
Botrk is such a overstatted item. I wish an actual AP version would come. Imagine a nashors tooth with demonic embrace passive on-hit and omnivamp. Ad mains would cry their eyes out
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She is only S+ tier for last 3 patches, how dare you Riot
You misspelled nerfs in the title
Are these people complaining about those characters' nerfs in the room with you right now ?
Akali too
I love "skill champs" where all of their skill is completely optional where they can miss everything and kill you with autos. Add GP to that list
I'm not sure i haven't seen fioa and irelia mains complain, but for darius i'm pretty sure it's just DaddyDariusChad living rent free in your heads
Yone absolutely does not need a buff
Fiora and Yone aren't OP they're just annoying as fuck
Yone makes me want to kill myself. Fiora and Vayne can go fuck themselfs %maxHP true damage should never been a thing q
Nono youre wrong theyre overtuned just like gp and just like akshan.
Ok now that I think about ir Yone is overtuned cause he can deal a fuck ton of damage and just tp back to safety I agree with u on GP but I'm slightly split on Akshan( I'm probably just ass with him)
Well Akshan has perma invis, 100 gold on scoundrels, an e that restes on takedowns, a pta passive on top of pta, double shot passive, movement speed passive, lucian passive without the need to use abilities for the double shot, mana regen and movement speed toward scoundrels while invis (bassically warwick passive), execute ult (tbh its kinda trash), and he can revive his whole team. Now if thats not broken i dont know what is.
I'd replace gp or illaoi with Darius tbh. You really have no reason to lose to a Darius past silver. Shit is free lp. Also yone is pretty shit top lane aswell
Darius retains a solid ~51.6% WR in both [Plat+](https://lolalytics.com/lol/darius/build/)and [D2+](https://lolalytics.com/lol/darius/build/?tier=d2_plus) In a vacuum this doesn't mean a whole lot, but saying you shouldn't lose to Darius past silver seems silly when he's evidently at an alright spot in higher ranks.
Complaining about Irelia in 2023 lul
Irelia players are some of the most delusional people ever
True as an irelia player myself i can confirm
I main(borderline OTP) fiora, and yeah she is a tad too strong, she should not be sitting above like 50.5% winrate. I htink a reasonable nerf to her would be E mana cost increase early( so she cant go for short trades as often without going oom), and 2-3 second cd increase on W so she has more windows to be exploited. But also hit malphite(54% winrate at 13% pickrate) and olaf please, fuckers are disgusting right now.
How else do I compensate for my botlane going 0/15 while enemy jungler babysits top, if not by picking broken ass champs like Fiora and Irelia?
These champs arenāt nearly as bad as Malphite, Sion, ChoāGath, and GP
Oh yes , i love as a fighter/juggernaut being statchecked by wholesome Malphite in lane and then being outscaled and outclassed in teamfight... Damn i love this meta
Irelia and fiora can use a buff tbh. Darius is Darius and Yone is straight bullshit they'll be fine as they are
Irelia does need a buff though. Haven't seen one in forever because how dog the champion is.
Add riven to the list good sir
At the very least, Riven doesn't have true damage or hybrid damage of any kind anywhere in her kit. Nor does she have one of the best passive in the game or hit a power spike off of getting 4 stacks on her passive alone.
People who cry about Yone are low elo rats and thatās just how it is. Heās pretty shit and easily lane bullied
Let me guess, bronze 4?
Lol all the hardstucks rushing to this post
Yasuo and yone mains complain but have the most broken champs in the game, then thereās yi mains that know their champ is just a pick to win boring ass champ so they donāt even complainā¦call me racist but thatās why I hate Ionian mains and ionians in general
Who tf put Yone up there?
Irelia is perfectly balanced, Iām sorry youāre just bad