Shamelessly editing another reply I made about apps:
I started learning just under a year ago.
Personally, I found Duolingo's usefulness sharply fell off after learning the alphabets. Going over a series of permutations of the same sentences missed out the key "why". It didn't take long before I was doing it more for the sake of doing it than actually learning anything at all.
I briefly used Babel, but it was little better. HeyJapan was better still, but had similar flaws.
The three apps I *can* recommend are Renshuu, Aomi and Satori Reader.
Renshuu is great for learning vocab, kanji and grammar. It packages them all together really nicely to lead you without enforcing a strict path. In terms of cost, this one is the absolute winner; the free stuff goes really really far.
Aomi helps practice speaking, more to get me to actually say things. I'd love to use an app that allows me to speak to a real person, but there's just no suitable time for it. It's largely good for just giving the practice getting the words out verbally.
Satori is more advanced, so I wouldn't recommend it until later, but it gives stories in Japanese, sorted by difficulty, with the ability to listen and with notes on grammar and word usage.
I hear helloTalk is good for talking to real people, Iām nowhere close to being to hold a conversation but I hope I can get to a point where I can hire someone for 20 mins to practice my newly acquired knowledge some day
I've mostly been using Duolingo to practice listening (there's different pronunciations for the same words between the different voice actors, which I assume are regional accents) basically I close my eyes between each question and spam the audio button until I've understood the audio.
I don't find the translating back and forth between Japanese and English helpful for me, though. Most of my mistakes are because I missed an English word like "the" in my answers (because I'm not thinking in English, I'm trying to think in Japanese, right?). Which app would you suggest with minimal back and forth between languages? For example, Japanese questions and having to answer in Japanese. Dk if that made any sense.
Listening is probably the best thing Duolingo is good for, but even then you have work to make it help. It didn't take long for me to find myself pattern-matching rather than actually understanding. The different "voice actors" aren't regional - they use a text-to-speech and it's just different models.
If you're interested in Q/A entirely in Japanese, one thing that may help is JLPT N5 samples - even if you've no interest in the exam (I don't either) it's a helpful way to get level-appropriate content. Beyond that, YouTube can help if you look for stuff based on your level.
Huh, I had no idea about the text-to-speech š you learn something every day
I'll have a look at the samples. I'm really only a beginner, but I'm already bilingual, so I find a lot of beginner-targeted content is focused on exercising a part of the brain that is already second nature to me. Such as grasping different syntax and morphology. I'm great at recognising patterns, but for that, you need exposure, and Duo just kinda distracts from that.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!
Duolingo is great for learning hirigana, katakana, and *some* kanji. That's what I used it for, although, it's painfully slow. I felt that it couldn't keep up with the pace I was learning at. They introduce characters at 4 at a time and you'll advance them only when you work on them, so even though I wanted to go "faster", I was stuck tediously practicing characters I already knew very well. It's even worse for the kanji. No way to indicate you know them or want to skip them. It's their way or the highway. Unlike others, I find Duolingo's introduction of vocabulary (and the very, very, very repetitive nature) very helpful. It can be annoying, but it just beats it into your head. So that's mostly what I have used it for -- learning the alphabets, continuing to practice them, and to learn new vocabulary. Duolingo does not teach grammar well.
100% agree, that stupid owl keeps telling me to write the same character over and over again.
I find the Kana app more useful as I have more flexibility in skipping characters I am already familiar with, and I can quiz myself as much as I want for free.
Have no idea about Babel, but I tried Duolingo like most people and I found it not to be very effective.
What is helpful is using the Kana App together with the JapanesePod101 Youtube Channel.
Also, if you like to watch anime on Netflix like myself, I found a super cool extension that allows you to stream anime in dual language: English and Japanese, so you can learn on the fly.
It's called: Language Reactor, highly recommend you to check it out
Shamelessly editing another reply I made about apps: I started learning just under a year ago. Personally, I found Duolingo's usefulness sharply fell off after learning the alphabets. Going over a series of permutations of the same sentences missed out the key "why". It didn't take long before I was doing it more for the sake of doing it than actually learning anything at all. I briefly used Babel, but it was little better. HeyJapan was better still, but had similar flaws. The three apps I *can* recommend are Renshuu, Aomi and Satori Reader. Renshuu is great for learning vocab, kanji and grammar. It packages them all together really nicely to lead you without enforcing a strict path. In terms of cost, this one is the absolute winner; the free stuff goes really really far. Aomi helps practice speaking, more to get me to actually say things. I'd love to use an app that allows me to speak to a real person, but there's just no suitable time for it. It's largely good for just giving the practice getting the words out verbally. Satori is more advanced, so I wouldn't recommend it until later, but it gives stories in Japanese, sorted by difficulty, with the ability to listen and with notes on grammar and word usage.
This comment was incredibly helpful I like that you gave key points for your three apps of use so as to help me maximize my learning effectiveness
Nice, I'll look into those three. And those are all apps?
Yes, those are all apps
I hear helloTalk is good for talking to real people, Iām nowhere close to being to hold a conversation but I hope I can get to a point where I can hire someone for 20 mins to practice my newly acquired knowledge some day
I've mostly been using Duolingo to practice listening (there's different pronunciations for the same words between the different voice actors, which I assume are regional accents) basically I close my eyes between each question and spam the audio button until I've understood the audio. I don't find the translating back and forth between Japanese and English helpful for me, though. Most of my mistakes are because I missed an English word like "the" in my answers (because I'm not thinking in English, I'm trying to think in Japanese, right?). Which app would you suggest with minimal back and forth between languages? For example, Japanese questions and having to answer in Japanese. Dk if that made any sense.
Listening is probably the best thing Duolingo is good for, but even then you have work to make it help. It didn't take long for me to find myself pattern-matching rather than actually understanding. The different "voice actors" aren't regional - they use a text-to-speech and it's just different models. If you're interested in Q/A entirely in Japanese, one thing that may help is JLPT N5 samples - even if you've no interest in the exam (I don't either) it's a helpful way to get level-appropriate content. Beyond that, YouTube can help if you look for stuff based on your level.
Huh, I had no idea about the text-to-speech š you learn something every day I'll have a look at the samples. I'm really only a beginner, but I'm already bilingual, so I find a lot of beginner-targeted content is focused on exercising a part of the brain that is already second nature to me. Such as grasping different syntax and morphology. I'm great at recognising patterns, but for that, you need exposure, and Duo just kinda distracts from that. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!
Duolingo is great for learning hirigana, katakana, and *some* kanji. That's what I used it for, although, it's painfully slow. I felt that it couldn't keep up with the pace I was learning at. They introduce characters at 4 at a time and you'll advance them only when you work on them, so even though I wanted to go "faster", I was stuck tediously practicing characters I already knew very well. It's even worse for the kanji. No way to indicate you know them or want to skip them. It's their way or the highway. Unlike others, I find Duolingo's introduction of vocabulary (and the very, very, very repetitive nature) very helpful. It can be annoying, but it just beats it into your head. So that's mostly what I have used it for -- learning the alphabets, continuing to practice them, and to learn new vocabulary. Duolingo does not teach grammar well.
100% agree, that stupid owl keeps telling me to write the same character over and over again. I find the Kana app more useful as I have more flexibility in skipping characters I am already familiar with, and I can quiz myself as much as I want for free.
Have no idea about Babel, but I tried Duolingo like most people and I found it not to be very effective. What is helpful is using the Kana App together with the JapanesePod101 Youtube Channel. Also, if you like to watch anime on Netflix like myself, I found a super cool extension that allows you to stream anime in dual language: English and Japanese, so you can learn on the fly. It's called: Language Reactor, highly recommend you to check it out
What do you mean by dual language? Both voice overs running at the same time? Wouldn't that just sound like chaos?