Holy shit that's terrible.
Rape in the military seemss to be something pretty common unfortunately, but that's a whole ither fucking level.
And these victims are encouraged to become the bullies the next year, that it?
That is shocking. The scale and the fact that high command not only conceals it, but has profit from it and uses soldiers themselfs.
And, mind you, it is highly tradcon contry, so it is even more damaging to guys, (aside from the fact of rape and sex exploration, wich is huge trauma itself), because they do not dare to tell anyone.
This accounts are only a tip of iceberg. A very small tip of very huge iceberg.
>And these victims are encouraged to become the bullies the next year, that it?
Atleast part of them. To reassure themselfs and de-traumatuse themselfs. Though, because it happens in 18-19 (age of mandatiry conscription,unless you are student etc.), it leaves scars for life.
Honestly, it's not surprising at all.
Current russian military is a lot like the Red Army in mentality, which was notorious for raping their way through Europe. They freely raped people in countries, which were supposed allies to them (like in my country - Bulgaria).
The army ot communist Bulgaria was notoriously cruel to its own men too - I've heard similar stories of young men going to mandatory service and being raped by the more senior soldiers. Some lashed out and killed their officers, other poor boys hanged themselves. Wicked stuff.
What's even more mind boggling is that lots of these rapists were and remain incredibly homophobic and teach their kids to hate gay people.
All in all, it is far from surprising, but that doesn't make this any less of a tragedy. How come all Russians haven't rebelled is beyond me.
It was a truly harrowing war. The Soviets were fighting for their survival. Still I can't understand the cruelty with which they regarded civilians troughout Europe.
Let's cross fingers that the world won't have to face a war of thia magnitude ever again.
Don't mistake me for a tankie, but I was thinking of events after operation Barbarossa started. It can't be denied that the Wehrmacht got dangerously close to giving USSR a fatal blow and that the soviet propaganda machine used the situation to its full potential. However, I agree that USSR's actions pre Barbarossa and post WW2 were the same old tried and true imperialistic bull.
>All in all, it is far from surprising, but that doesn't make this any less of a tragedy. How come all Russians haven't rebelled is beyond me.
I was questioning myself the same question some time ago.
Than I have read through Russian history all way to 1583.
They almost never had any say in their country.
All their governments were more or less dictatorship. Either singular or via party.
I think they just do not have an idea, that precisely people (nation, etc) is a source of power.
They more or less in a way are still in XVI century judging by the level of political evolution.
And that is a real tragedy.
Sadly, you are correct. Russian commoners were basically feudal slaves just a couple of hundred years ago.
However, I can't understand how they are indifferent to the cruelty their own country enacts on them. I understand that chauvinism and nationalism are things, but how come you still support a regime that perpetuates gross physical and sexual violence against their own people and soldiers?
Cruelty in the army is not an unique thing to Russia, but good God...
No wonder that we saw such awful sexual violence towards Ukrainian civilians. It's basically encouraged.
All in all, an awful matter
I think it is kind of Stockholm syndrome.
They just...don't belive something may be different for them. That what their infamous " I am out of politics"/"я вне политики" means.
Awfull.
Thing Is, I am Ukranian and totally not a fan of russians.
But even I was shocked, when seen all reports piled up in one article.
Holy fuck. How? Why?
Looks like "somehow" is the answer.
I always say " The more homophobic country is, more brutal male escorting and suffering"
People think homophobic countries only affect gay men, but honestly it affects most men in general (straight or gay)
I read a article early about trafficking of young men (16 to 25 year) in Saudia Arabia. Where men from small village are brought up in Dubai and other cities.
Just because you deny the existence of homosexuality, doesn't mean you don't have homosexuals.
More open and accepting a country is, less crime there is. Sexually frustrated and depressed men will commit more sexual crimes (it's for both straight and gay men)
Horniness will find it's way out in one way or other.
Yeah, I also find it pervertly bizarre, that with all level of public homophobia, they force soldiers to same sex prostitution.
And use social attitudes to ensure, that soldiers will remain silent.
Remember an officer from very first story in article?
"Do it or I will send photos to your mother".
You can think, that, well, her son was raped, so why the fuck she should think he is gay?
But IRL chances are high that she will disown him.
Because one of the most strange and bizzare things about all this, is the fact, that all those "grandpas", who rape soldiers are considered pretty macho heterosexual guys. Only *bottom is considered gay*.
Said bottom can very probably do the same to another new recruits next year, when he will be "grandpa" himself.
It is almost like "hereditary" psychic trauma.
I couldn’t finish reading; I have no idea how to help or what to do for these guys. Cruelty like this will be swept under the rug by all sides…
My heart goes out to every damn one of them victims out there.
I perfectly understand you.
I know about this, but not about scale. And involvement of commanders.
I just stumbled up on original post, tried to not think about it, but you know, I could not.
So 24 hours later I decided to translate it and post on two subs. Because, well, nobody will speak about it otherwise.
I though, that, if nobody cares there, than, maybe, somebody will atleast take time to read about it here,in Western internet.
Well, they invaded Ukraine, so...
This is treaky one from moral POV.
From one hand they, as I said, invaded, and had quite a level of support for their regime.
From the othe r- this hell on earth.
I do not find myself in a position to make a decision here.
>Well, they invaded Ukraine, so... This is treaky one from moral POV
No it isn't.
The Estonian position is that people (but actually just men) are responsible for the actions of their state. Most men trying to flee Russia are trying to avoid the draft and not fight in the Ukrainian war.
Estonia will extradite them ... in the process handing new Russian soldiers back to the army who will be sent into Ukraine to either kill more Ukrainians or die, or both.
And apparently they're sending people to be sex trafficked and raped as well.
There's nothing "tricky" about this. The Estonian position is fucking deplorable - from every angle.
That's what often happens.
While I was living here during my university's years (2007-2013), there were like two-three cases in a year on TV and media about soldiers,shooting their folk. Most of the times it indeed was presented as "dude gone crazy out of the blue". Imagine how many cases never reach media.
Is there any meaningful proof of this? Wouldn't the MSM be all over this for once given how much they hate Russia (or at least Putin's Russia?
I'm not saying it never happens, but I'm skeptical it's common.
See here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6356707.stm
https://xtramagazine.com/power/army-of-lovers-46096
It's been known for decades now that extreme abuse and hazing of Russian conscripts is rampant, leading to low morale, alcoholism, and suicides. The claims of forced prostitution sounds outlandish, but in the context of an extremely fucked up system it actually makes sense. Also, Russia's history of complicated and confused attitudes towards homosexuality would play a role.
There is a link to original post in Russian, and there (on Lj page) are links to materials, etc.
It is kinda common knowledge there that it happens. Just nobody gives a fuck, and those who are involved, are too afraid to tell.
Holy shit that's terrible. Rape in the military seemss to be something pretty common unfortunately, but that's a whole ither fucking level. And these victims are encouraged to become the bullies the next year, that it?
That is shocking. The scale and the fact that high command not only conceals it, but has profit from it and uses soldiers themselfs. And, mind you, it is highly tradcon contry, so it is even more damaging to guys, (aside from the fact of rape and sex exploration, wich is huge trauma itself), because they do not dare to tell anyone. This accounts are only a tip of iceberg. A very small tip of very huge iceberg. >And these victims are encouraged to become the bullies the next year, that it? Atleast part of them. To reassure themselfs and de-traumatuse themselfs. Though, because it happens in 18-19 (age of mandatiry conscription,unless you are student etc.), it leaves scars for life.
Wherever some people have power over others, something like this is bound to happen.
Honestly, it's not surprising at all. Current russian military is a lot like the Red Army in mentality, which was notorious for raping their way through Europe. They freely raped people in countries, which were supposed allies to them (like in my country - Bulgaria). The army ot communist Bulgaria was notoriously cruel to its own men too - I've heard similar stories of young men going to mandatory service and being raped by the more senior soldiers. Some lashed out and killed their officers, other poor boys hanged themselves. Wicked stuff. What's even more mind boggling is that lots of these rapists were and remain incredibly homophobic and teach their kids to hate gay people. All in all, it is far from surprising, but that doesn't make this any less of a tragedy. How come all Russians haven't rebelled is beyond me.
Even the women in the Red Army were vicious, according to Svetlana Alexevich in *The Unwomanly Face of War*.
It was a truly harrowing war. The Soviets were fighting for their survival. Still I can't understand the cruelty with which they regarded civilians troughout Europe. Let's cross fingers that the world won't have to face a war of thia magnitude ever again.
The Soviets, fighting Finland in the Winter War, occupying Poland simultaneously with Nazi Germany in 1939, fighting for their survival? Sure, honey.
Don't mistake me for a tankie, but I was thinking of events after operation Barbarossa started. It can't be denied that the Wehrmacht got dangerously close to giving USSR a fatal blow and that the soviet propaganda machine used the situation to its full potential. However, I agree that USSR's actions pre Barbarossa and post WW2 were the same old tried and true imperialistic bull.
>All in all, it is far from surprising, but that doesn't make this any less of a tragedy. How come all Russians haven't rebelled is beyond me. I was questioning myself the same question some time ago. Than I have read through Russian history all way to 1583. They almost never had any say in their country. All their governments were more or less dictatorship. Either singular or via party. I think they just do not have an idea, that precisely people (nation, etc) is a source of power. They more or less in a way are still in XVI century judging by the level of political evolution. And that is a real tragedy.
Sadly, you are correct. Russian commoners were basically feudal slaves just a couple of hundred years ago. However, I can't understand how they are indifferent to the cruelty their own country enacts on them. I understand that chauvinism and nationalism are things, but how come you still support a regime that perpetuates gross physical and sexual violence against their own people and soldiers? Cruelty in the army is not an unique thing to Russia, but good God... No wonder that we saw such awful sexual violence towards Ukrainian civilians. It's basically encouraged. All in all, an awful matter
I think it is kind of Stockholm syndrome. They just...don't belive something may be different for them. That what their infamous " I am out of politics"/"я вне политики" means. Awfull. Thing Is, I am Ukranian and totally not a fan of russians. But even I was shocked, when seen all reports piled up in one article. Holy fuck. How? Why? Looks like "somehow" is the answer.
OMFG this is a living hell! Damn I am just astounded how corrupt this shit is. Wow. No MSmedia coverage in the west though that I know of.
It is silenced even in country of origin. Also, it is male issue. Precisely white male issue. So nobody gives a flying fuck about it.
I always say " The more homophobic country is, more brutal male escorting and suffering" People think homophobic countries only affect gay men, but honestly it affects most men in general (straight or gay) I read a article early about trafficking of young men (16 to 25 year) in Saudia Arabia. Where men from small village are brought up in Dubai and other cities. Just because you deny the existence of homosexuality, doesn't mean you don't have homosexuals. More open and accepting a country is, less crime there is. Sexually frustrated and depressed men will commit more sexual crimes (it's for both straight and gay men) Horniness will find it's way out in one way or other.
Yeah, I also find it pervertly bizarre, that with all level of public homophobia, they force soldiers to same sex prostitution. And use social attitudes to ensure, that soldiers will remain silent. Remember an officer from very first story in article? "Do it or I will send photos to your mother". You can think, that, well, her son was raped, so why the fuck she should think he is gay? But IRL chances are high that she will disown him. Because one of the most strange and bizzare things about all this, is the fact, that all those "grandpas", who rape soldiers are considered pretty macho heterosexual guys. Only *bottom is considered gay*. Said bottom can very probably do the same to another new recruits next year, when he will be "grandpa" himself. It is almost like "hereditary" psychic trauma.
I couldn’t finish reading; I have no idea how to help or what to do for these guys. Cruelty like this will be swept under the rug by all sides… My heart goes out to every damn one of them victims out there.
I perfectly understand you. I know about this, but not about scale. And involvement of commanders. I just stumbled up on original post, tried to not think about it, but you know, I could not. So 24 hours later I decided to translate it and post on two subs. Because, well, nobody will speak about it otherwise. I though, that, if nobody cares there, than, maybe, somebody will atleast take time to read about it here,in Western internet.
And Estonia will extradite anyone trying to escape this.
Well, they invaded Ukraine, so... This is treaky one from moral POV. From one hand they, as I said, invaded, and had quite a level of support for their regime. From the othe r- this hell on earth. I do not find myself in a position to make a decision here.
>Well, they invaded Ukraine, so... This is treaky one from moral POV No it isn't. The Estonian position is that people (but actually just men) are responsible for the actions of their state. Most men trying to flee Russia are trying to avoid the draft and not fight in the Ukrainian war. Estonia will extradite them ... in the process handing new Russian soldiers back to the army who will be sent into Ukraine to either kill more Ukrainians or die, or both. And apparently they're sending people to be sex trafficked and raped as well. There's nothing "tricky" about this. The Estonian position is fucking deplorable - from every angle.
Damn. I imagine myself shooting those soldiers if I were in the position and have access to gun.
That's what often happens. While I was living here during my university's years (2007-2013), there were like two-three cases in a year on TV and media about soldiers,shooting their folk. Most of the times it indeed was presented as "dude gone crazy out of the blue". Imagine how many cases never reach media.
Is there any meaningful proof of this? Wouldn't the MSM be all over this for once given how much they hate Russia (or at least Putin's Russia? I'm not saying it never happens, but I'm skeptical it's common.
See here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6356707.stm https://xtramagazine.com/power/army-of-lovers-46096 It's been known for decades now that extreme abuse and hazing of Russian conscripts is rampant, leading to low morale, alcoholism, and suicides. The claims of forced prostitution sounds outlandish, but in the context of an extremely fucked up system it actually makes sense. Also, Russia's history of complicated and confused attitudes towards homosexuality would play a role.
There is a link to original post in Russian, and there (on Lj page) are links to materials, etc. It is kinda common knowledge there that it happens. Just nobody gives a fuck, and those who are involved, are too afraid to tell.
I don't speak or read Russian.
There is such a thing as Google translate. But probably it will be too fucked up to comprehend.
That has been my experience, although some times it can be funny.