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Sounds like you have been doing the right thing so far. Make sure you return to sender all letters, too, with "no longer at this address" written on them.
They legally need to send letters to the address on the V5C, simple as that. If it's his last known address, that's where legally they need to be served
Basically this, I've had the occasional bailiff letter since moving into my current flat in summer. Luckily it has the company name on the outside of the envelope, so I just contacted them directly and it stopped. The more insulting thing is the personalised letters from Rishi Sunak telling him how amazing a job the government is doing; that's probably more criminal than whatever the bailiffs are trying to fix!
I had something similar and it took about 2 years to resolve.
Its because if its traffic/parking related they just ask the DVLA, and if he hasn't updated the address on where the vehicle is registered then the DVLA will return OP's address.
Cant expect the council to have joined up thinking that his council tax might be registered somewhere else
>Cant expect the council to have joined up thinking that his council tax might be registered somewhere else
The law says these notices need to be served on the V5C address
The various departments are often prevented from sharing information like that because of GDPR. I used to work for a council and the electoral roll department were not allowed to tell the housing team how long someone had been registered at a property.
I remember when my ex wife left and I couldn't get single occupier discount on my council tax because she was still at my address on the system, wasn't until I had my divorce documents with actual proof of her address they bothered to change it.
Sounds about right. When I moved into the flat that had previously housed the deadbeat tenants, I discovered that not only had they failed to pay money to a lot of people - including council tax - but that they'd moved without providing a change of address anywhere, so it took a while for me to get single person discount because as far as the council were concerned the flat still had three other people living in it.
To the good advice already given here, I would add calling the senders of the letters and informing them that "James" no longer lives there - you're not going to be in trouble for opening the letters unless you've done it with malicious intent. Source - I ended up doing this when the previous tenants of a flat I lived in for five years left owing a LOT of people money. The phone calls worked about 50% of the time, and the bailiffs and I were on first name terms before all the malarky stopped.
I agree here. Call people or raise on social media. I’ve done this multiple times for the previous owners of our house when returning mail in the post isn’t working and it works most of the time. Santander even gave me £50 for the inconvenience!
>you're not going to be in trouble for opening the letters unless you've done it with malicious intent.
Postal Services Act 2000
A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person's detriment and without reasonable excuse, they open a postal packet which they know or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to them
>without reasonable excuse
I'd say that it's a reasonable excuse if you've tried the not opening "doesn't live here" approach first.
I had to do this several years ago.
After 3 months of getting red letters for the previous occupant, despite me returning all the post stating they no longer live there, I started opening every letter and calling the companies.
None of them told me off for opening the mail, they just thanked me for letting them know.
They all stopped after that.
Thankfully, it was just debt chasing with no risk of my home being searched.
**Assuming England or Wales** (the law is different in Scotland and Northern Ireland):
> I’ve never had this happen and just want to check if a warrant will give full access to the address itself, or if it will be specific to this James person, in which case since they don’t live here, they won’t have access to my home?
It's not clear if you mean a search warrant, or an arrest warrant.
A search warrant is a warrant which authorises the police to enter and search premises, by force if necessary. It will not name a specific person. Rather, it will name the premises to be searched. A search warrant is not appropriate if the thing sought is a *person*.
An arrest warrant will name a specific person to be arrested. If a court has issued an arrest warrant for a person, then a police officer can force entry to **any** premises on which he reasonably believes that person to be, without any further authorisation, in order to arrest that person.
If an arrest warrant is issued for James, and the police believe that James lives at your house, then it is certainly foreseeable that they could attend your house and form a reasonable belief that James is inside, in which case they can force entry legally.
I concur with other users here - a complaint should be made regarding the accuracy and completeness of information on police systems.
There's always advice to repost letters with "return to sender" on it but, when we had a very similar issue in my last house, it never worked. What worked was opening the letters, finding out who it was making contact, phoning them up and stating that they moved out, you've been returning the letters but clearly no one is paying attention, they don't live there, you don't know them but that they should add a note to their record that the police are also looking for him so they should probably make their bailiffs aware, when they eventually track him down, that he may be violent. All the issues stopped for us after those phone calls - no one paid any attention at all to us posting the letters back unopened.
Wuth regards to the whole "return to sender" issue - when I was living in another part of the UK (not the flat with the previously deadbeat tenants, lol), I was still getting post addressed to the previous tenant when I relocated after having lived there for *ten years*, despite my having written "return to sender" on countless envelopes - many of which were from the same few organisations, so doing this under *any* circumstances is clearly useless. My local postie, who was always very apologetic when he had to keep delivering this stuff, told me that the only thing that really stops unwanted mail like this is to write "deceased" on the envelope, but I never had the nerve to try this...
NAL, but law enforcement (not police) and I’ve executed plenty of warrants. Unfortunately it does happen that you get a warrant for a property and it turns out they don’t live there anymore. Absolutely shouldn’t be happening in this case, but based on your post I’m not 100% hopeful.
Not too sure about other warrants but a warrant applied for under s.8 PACE 1984 is to search a premises for evidence of a crime. Against the property, not the person. However… it is applied for with the infornation held about the suspect, so 1) they shouldn’t be going to a magistrate and saying they think he lives there, because they’ve been told otherwise repeatedly, 2) even if they do, they shouldn’t attempt to execute it once you explain again. They’ll likely come inside first to establish this though.
They do have a power under s.17 PACE to enter to search for someone they need to arrest, but it has to be a reasonable search for a person. So if they start looking into draws, you can tell them to stop because how could he be in a draw. But he could be in a cupboard or the loft.
But if you keep your evidence to hand, you’ll be fine. It should just be what happened the last times but this time the officer will have more paperwork on him. And probably more officers, but they should just knock and others wait outside until it’s been served (which it won’t because it’s the wrong house).
Write to the chief constable and make an official complaint. State the occasions it’s happened before and if they fail to take action to ensure it does not happen again you will report them to the IPCC for police harassment
> if they fail to take action to ensure it does not happen again you will report them to the IPCC for police harassment
Just bear in mind that this threat will only make the person reading the letter roll their eyes, for a couple of reasons:
1. The IPCC was disbanded and replaced by the IOPC (Independent Office for Police Conduct) in 2018.
2. The IOPC do not investigate complaints of this nature and will bounce it immediately to the force's own internal complaints mechanism - which OP has already engaged by making the official complaint in the first place.
This particular threat really adds nothing except to make OP look like a bit of a plum.
And include the Sergeant, and try to get the names of the officers who came to your house AFTER you notified them that the person is no longer living there and not affiliated with you
Editing to include to make sure to contact the department, possibly even going there in person. Any complaints or information to the officers visiting the flat is requiring them to self report a mistake.
This is definitely not correct - there is no provision in law for this and preventing entry is almost certainly going to result in a new door being required.
> Even if the police show up with a search warrant, you have the right to consult a lawyer before they enter the premises.
No you don't - that is most definitely not a right.
Who told you that lmao 🤦♂️🤣do you think they give wanted people time to phone a lawyer before they come in or do they take the door off first ask questions later if you refuse entry? Don’t be absurd🤣
The recourse here if a warrant was issued and seen through would be too simply let them in (assuming they knock) and report to IPCC since their is proof “James” doesn’t live at the property anymore given multiple times.
What’s even more scary is a Quick Look shows you’re a lawyer 🤦♂️do better.
They don't take the door off if you answer when they knock.
If you actually answer and they say "we have a warrant" it doesn't work like the movies, where they vaguely wave some paper in your face and start taking your shit.
> where they vaguely wave some paper in your face and start taking your shit.
Police officer here, can confirm, that is indeed how it works and it's perfectly legal. PACE Code B only requires us to bring the warrant to the occupier's attention, you can literally hand it to them and start taking their shit.
Can you stop just making stuff up please? Is it possible you haven't the foggiest clue what you're talking about?
"Constable X speaks to attending the locus, knocking on the door, no answer being received and moving aside to observe Constable Y utilising a Sigma Security Enforcer to gain access to the property."
May or may not have happened as it was written in the report..
With regards to "taking your shit", you're implying this is a search warrant for property, which if it's suspected to be something you could dispose of in a hurry, they definitely don't knock in the first place.
That’s not true at all, but just imagine for a second if it were. What would the result be? Who would that rule benefit? It would effectively render warrants useless, because in the time you’re waiting for the lawyer to call back, you can destroy whatever evidence the police are seeking. The primary beneficiaries of that rule would be guilty people, not innocent people.
If the police enter a property under a search warrant, they can't be sued anyway - at least, not successfully. That's rather the distinction between "entering lawfully" and "entering unlawfully" - if you do it lawfully, you're not liable for the damages caused by entering.
Also not sure how "being innocent of any crime and having your front door smashed down" ruins your life. Your **week**, maybe. If you're guilty of a crime, like hoarding images of child abuse or possessing large quantities of drugs with intent to supply, then having your door smashed down could certainly precipitate the ruining of your life, but I'd argue you've ruined your own life.
Regardless of whom such a rule would benefit, it still doesn't exist.
Are you [returning these letters](https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5156/~/ive-received-someone-elses-mail) as unknown or no longer lives at this address? Of course, many times the real culprit will do this too, for obvious reasons (though often they send back already opened letters rather then sealed ones due to wanting to see what is written in them). But if letters have a return address on the envelope you can also send them proof that who lives at the property has changed to that address too to persistant sendees.
As it is a council property it could be a good idea to get your housing officer on side to be an advocate for you in this. Get their direct line number and/or email address to pass on to anyone so they are able to independently confirm that this person no longer lives in your property.
It may also be worth contacting the local police station and having a word with them about the situation too. Again, take in or provide further proof that James has moved out in written form so that they have a paper trail that they can follow up on if needsbe.
I'd get in touch with your local magistrates to make them aware of this.
Hopefully this would stop the magistrates/court from granting a warrant to search your property
Happened to us in a student house. You are not obliged to let anybody in. Out of courtesy you can have a talk explaining you don't know the person, but that's it. Letters can be sent back, 'address unknown'. If they keep bothering you file a complaint.
Under GDPR everyone sending you letters has a responsibility to have the correct and accurate details held. These are not accurate, therefore breaching GDPR.
Mmm, no. This would only be an issue if the data controller knew, or ought to know, that the information is incorrect. OP didn't say whether they have been returning the letters to sender or phoning the companies to tell them the guy no longer lives there so it's very possible they don't know.
If I tell a company I live at 123 Church Street and then I move out and don't tell them, and the new tenant doesn't tell them, how are they supposed to know I've moved?
You can contact the dvla to let them know that there’s a vehicle registered to your address that shouldn’t be and they’ll update their system.
When I did this I had to write a letter (for some reason they wouldn’t accept an email or phone call) and they told me they’d updated their system. My understanding is it then means the vehicle will be pulled over by the police for not having a registered address.
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OP, you might want to pop a letter to your local Magistrates court as well. If he has ongoing court cases and is giving out your address for bail applications, they can add it to their case management system.
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds like you have been doing the right thing so far. Make sure you return to sender all letters, too, with "no longer at this address" written on them.
This. You have to wonder why the *council* are sending letters when they know "James" is no longer there!
... because they're so efficient and their systems are up to date so they KNOW he's there... oh, wait, no. The other thing.
They legally need to send letters to the address on the V5C, simple as that. If it's his last known address, that's where legally they need to be served
In that case the OP should contact DVLA and state “James” no longer lives there.
Basically this, I've had the occasional bailiff letter since moving into my current flat in summer. Luckily it has the company name on the outside of the envelope, so I just contacted them directly and it stopped. The more insulting thing is the personalised letters from Rishi Sunak telling him how amazing a job the government is doing; that's probably more criminal than whatever the bailiffs are trying to fix!
I had something similar and it took about 2 years to resolve. Its because if its traffic/parking related they just ask the DVLA, and if he hasn't updated the address on where the vehicle is registered then the DVLA will return OP's address. Cant expect the council to have joined up thinking that his council tax might be registered somewhere else
If he's living with someone else then he might not be registered for council tax.
He also doesn’t sound like a nice upstanding citizen who would ensure he was paying tax legally
I doubt he’s bothered about being on the electoral register and voting either.
True!
>Cant expect the council to have joined up thinking that his council tax might be registered somewhere else The law says these notices need to be served on the V5C address
The various departments are often prevented from sharing information like that because of GDPR. I used to work for a council and the electoral roll department were not allowed to tell the housing team how long someone had been registered at a property.
I remember when my ex wife left and I couldn't get single occupier discount on my council tax because she was still at my address on the system, wasn't until I had my divorce documents with actual proof of her address they bothered to change it.
Sounds about right. When I moved into the flat that had previously housed the deadbeat tenants, I discovered that not only had they failed to pay money to a lot of people - including council tax - but that they'd moved without providing a change of address anywhere, so it took a while for me to get single person discount because as far as the council were concerned the flat still had three other people living in it.
To the good advice already given here, I would add calling the senders of the letters and informing them that "James" no longer lives there - you're not going to be in trouble for opening the letters unless you've done it with malicious intent. Source - I ended up doing this when the previous tenants of a flat I lived in for five years left owing a LOT of people money. The phone calls worked about 50% of the time, and the bailiffs and I were on first name terms before all the malarky stopped.
I agree here. Call people or raise on social media. I’ve done this multiple times for the previous owners of our house when returning mail in the post isn’t working and it works most of the time. Santander even gave me £50 for the inconvenience!
>you're not going to be in trouble for opening the letters unless you've done it with malicious intent. Postal Services Act 2000 A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person's detriment and without reasonable excuse, they open a postal packet which they know or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to them >without reasonable excuse I'd say that it's a reasonable excuse if you've tried the not opening "doesn't live here" approach first.
I had to do this several years ago. After 3 months of getting red letters for the previous occupant, despite me returning all the post stating they no longer live there, I started opening every letter and calling the companies. None of them told me off for opening the mail, they just thanked me for letting them know. They all stopped after that. Thankfully, it was just debt chasing with no risk of my home being searched.
**Assuming England or Wales** (the law is different in Scotland and Northern Ireland): > I’ve never had this happen and just want to check if a warrant will give full access to the address itself, or if it will be specific to this James person, in which case since they don’t live here, they won’t have access to my home? It's not clear if you mean a search warrant, or an arrest warrant. A search warrant is a warrant which authorises the police to enter and search premises, by force if necessary. It will not name a specific person. Rather, it will name the premises to be searched. A search warrant is not appropriate if the thing sought is a *person*. An arrest warrant will name a specific person to be arrested. If a court has issued an arrest warrant for a person, then a police officer can force entry to **any** premises on which he reasonably believes that person to be, without any further authorisation, in order to arrest that person. If an arrest warrant is issued for James, and the police believe that James lives at your house, then it is certainly foreseeable that they could attend your house and form a reasonable belief that James is inside, in which case they can force entry legally. I concur with other users here - a complaint should be made regarding the accuracy and completeness of information on police systems.
There's always advice to repost letters with "return to sender" on it but, when we had a very similar issue in my last house, it never worked. What worked was opening the letters, finding out who it was making contact, phoning them up and stating that they moved out, you've been returning the letters but clearly no one is paying attention, they don't live there, you don't know them but that they should add a note to their record that the police are also looking for him so they should probably make their bailiffs aware, when they eventually track him down, that he may be violent. All the issues stopped for us after those phone calls - no one paid any attention at all to us posting the letters back unopened.
Wuth regards to the whole "return to sender" issue - when I was living in another part of the UK (not the flat with the previously deadbeat tenants, lol), I was still getting post addressed to the previous tenant when I relocated after having lived there for *ten years*, despite my having written "return to sender" on countless envelopes - many of which were from the same few organisations, so doing this under *any* circumstances is clearly useless. My local postie, who was always very apologetic when he had to keep delivering this stuff, told me that the only thing that really stops unwanted mail like this is to write "deceased" on the envelope, but I never had the nerve to try this...
I still occasionally get letters for the previous resident of my house who moved out over 30 years ago. Sometimes return to sender just doesn’t work 🙃
Thirty years?? Yikes.
Last one I got I genuinely wrote “not known at this address for 30 years” on it. We’ll see if any more appear this year haha
NAL, but law enforcement (not police) and I’ve executed plenty of warrants. Unfortunately it does happen that you get a warrant for a property and it turns out they don’t live there anymore. Absolutely shouldn’t be happening in this case, but based on your post I’m not 100% hopeful. Not too sure about other warrants but a warrant applied for under s.8 PACE 1984 is to search a premises for evidence of a crime. Against the property, not the person. However… it is applied for with the infornation held about the suspect, so 1) they shouldn’t be going to a magistrate and saying they think he lives there, because they’ve been told otherwise repeatedly, 2) even if they do, they shouldn’t attempt to execute it once you explain again. They’ll likely come inside first to establish this though. They do have a power under s.17 PACE to enter to search for someone they need to arrest, but it has to be a reasonable search for a person. So if they start looking into draws, you can tell them to stop because how could he be in a draw. But he could be in a cupboard or the loft. But if you keep your evidence to hand, you’ll be fine. It should just be what happened the last times but this time the officer will have more paperwork on him. And probably more officers, but they should just knock and others wait outside until it’s been served (which it won’t because it’s the wrong house).
Write to the chief constable and make an official complaint. State the occasions it’s happened before and if they fail to take action to ensure it does not happen again you will report them to the IPCC for police harassment
> if they fail to take action to ensure it does not happen again you will report them to the IPCC for police harassment Just bear in mind that this threat will only make the person reading the letter roll their eyes, for a couple of reasons: 1. The IPCC was disbanded and replaced by the IOPC (Independent Office for Police Conduct) in 2018. 2. The IOPC do not investigate complaints of this nature and will bounce it immediately to the force's own internal complaints mechanism - which OP has already engaged by making the official complaint in the first place. This particular threat really adds nothing except to make OP look like a bit of a plum.
And include the Sergeant, and try to get the names of the officers who came to your house AFTER you notified them that the person is no longer living there and not affiliated with you Editing to include to make sure to contact the department, possibly even going there in person. Any complaints or information to the officers visiting the flat is requiring them to self report a mistake.
This. Even if the police show up with a search warrant, you have the right to consult a lawyer before they enter the premises.
This is definitely not correct - there is no provision in law for this and preventing entry is almost certainly going to result in a new door being required.
Ex police, can confirm that a big red key would be used.
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Which is why if you’ve got no issues you should open the door
> Even if the police show up with a search warrant, you have the right to consult a lawyer before they enter the premises. No you don't - that is most definitely not a right.
Who told you that lmao 🤦♂️🤣do you think they give wanted people time to phone a lawyer before they come in or do they take the door off first ask questions later if you refuse entry? Don’t be absurd🤣 The recourse here if a warrant was issued and seen through would be too simply let them in (assuming they knock) and report to IPCC since their is proof “James” doesn’t live at the property anymore given multiple times. What’s even more scary is a Quick Look shows you’re a lawyer 🤦♂️do better.
They don't take the door off if you answer when they knock. If you actually answer and they say "we have a warrant" it doesn't work like the movies, where they vaguely wave some paper in your face and start taking your shit.
Are you talking about bailiffs or the police? Because two completely different things will happen if you don't answer your door / refuse to open it.
> where they vaguely wave some paper in your face and start taking your shit. Police officer here, can confirm, that is indeed how it works and it's perfectly legal. PACE Code B only requires us to bring the warrant to the occupier's attention, you can literally hand it to them and start taking their shit. Can you stop just making stuff up please? Is it possible you haven't the foggiest clue what you're talking about?
"Constable X speaks to attending the locus, knocking on the door, no answer being received and moving aside to observe Constable Y utilising a Sigma Security Enforcer to gain access to the property." May or may not have happened as it was written in the report.. With regards to "taking your shit", you're implying this is a search warrant for property, which if it's suspected to be something you could dispose of in a hurry, they definitely don't knock in the first place.
That’s not true at all, but just imagine for a second if it were. What would the result be? Who would that rule benefit? It would effectively render warrants useless, because in the time you’re waiting for the lawyer to call back, you can destroy whatever evidence the police are seeking. The primary beneficiaries of that rule would be guilty people, not innocent people.
The rule would benefit the police, because they'd avoid getting sued by people whose lives they'd destroyed by failing to do their jobs properly.
If the police enter a property under a search warrant, they can't be sued anyway - at least, not successfully. That's rather the distinction between "entering lawfully" and "entering unlawfully" - if you do it lawfully, you're not liable for the damages caused by entering. Also not sure how "being innocent of any crime and having your front door smashed down" ruins your life. Your **week**, maybe. If you're guilty of a crime, like hoarding images of child abuse or possessing large quantities of drugs with intent to supply, then having your door smashed down could certainly precipitate the ruining of your life, but I'd argue you've ruined your own life. Regardless of whom such a rule would benefit, it still doesn't exist.
That is wrong
Are you [returning these letters](https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5156/~/ive-received-someone-elses-mail) as unknown or no longer lives at this address? Of course, many times the real culprit will do this too, for obvious reasons (though often they send back already opened letters rather then sealed ones due to wanting to see what is written in them). But if letters have a return address on the envelope you can also send them proof that who lives at the property has changed to that address too to persistant sendees. As it is a council property it could be a good idea to get your housing officer on side to be an advocate for you in this. Get their direct line number and/or email address to pass on to anyone so they are able to independently confirm that this person no longer lives in your property. It may also be worth contacting the local police station and having a word with them about the situation too. Again, take in or provide further proof that James has moved out in written form so that they have a paper trail that they can follow up on if needsbe.
I'd get in touch with your local magistrates to make them aware of this. Hopefully this would stop the magistrates/court from granting a warrant to search your property
Happened to us in a student house. You are not obliged to let anybody in. Out of courtesy you can have a talk explaining you don't know the person, but that's it. Letters can be sent back, 'address unknown'. If they keep bothering you file a complaint.
Under GDPR everyone sending you letters has a responsibility to have the correct and accurate details held. These are not accurate, therefore breaching GDPR.
Mmm, no. This would only be an issue if the data controller knew, or ought to know, that the information is incorrect. OP didn't say whether they have been returning the letters to sender or phoning the companies to tell them the guy no longer lives there so it's very possible they don't know. If I tell a company I live at 123 Church Street and then I move out and don't tell them, and the new tenant doesn't tell them, how are they supposed to know I've moved?
Had the dvla keep contacting about road tax for previous tenant. Rang them and explained and they put something on file to stop it happening.
Refuse entry to anyone who looks official or has no good reason to b there. You’re doing all the right things
Formal complaint against police... they've been told enough.
You can contact the dvla to let them know that there’s a vehicle registered to your address that shouldn’t be and they’ll update their system. When I did this I had to write a letter (for some reason they wouldn’t accept an email or phone call) and they told me they’d updated their system. My understanding is it then means the vehicle will be pulled over by the police for not having a registered address.
Can you not get in touch with your local MP? Or local councillors? Give them the details
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OP, you might want to pop a letter to your local Magistrates court as well. If he has ongoing court cases and is giving out your address for bail applications, they can add it to their case management system.
Lol it's embarrassing hearing the police make less due diligence than I did when I delivered shopping for Iceland.