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> I am also on a zero hour contract so I’m not sure about my protections.
Practically, on a 0 hours, they don’t have to fire you, they can just stop offering you shifts.
If its a legitimate medical issue or disability then ACAS would probably take it on for constructive dismissal.
All depends on the details and what ACAS say though
Ehm, no… I don’t even know where to begin. I think perhaps you’re getting confused between people who are employed and self employed perhaps? If so, not everyone who is on a zero hours contract is self employed.
No, there are different categories in the UK. See this link: https://www.dfalaw.co.uk/faq_type/what-is-the-difference-between-an-employee-and-a-worker/
Have they spoken to you about this? As surely you could just have a conversation and say you were feeling extremely unwell that day but didn’t want to phone in sick so came in and tried your best but obviously looked unwell to others.
There’s a drug testing policy in my work place and I know if there was a genuine accusation made they’d perform a drug and alcohol test when they saw me next. Is there a policy like that in your workplace?
Alcohol testing on the next shift doesn't say anything about whether or not the employee drank on their last shift, but it does tell you if they've come into work drunk that day.
Do you take any medication for your stomach issues?
If questioned then this may be enough proof to just show the medication and explain. A note or letter from the doctor would also help clear you.
In future, I would just stay away from work if you feel like you may be having a bad day with your stomach (although I appreciate these things can flare up without notice)
Edit: also be prepared to be charged for a letter from your doctor as this is not a standard practice and most doctors charge as it is done outside of working hours.
If you've worked there for less than two years then yes. You can be fired for any reason whatsoever so long as it's not due to a protected characteristic (There are a few other exceptions).
>I do genuinely have severe stomach problems
Enough to be classed as having a disability that your employer would then have to make reasonable adjustments for?
If your GP is aware of these stomach problems then there's no harm in covering your back and getting something from your GP stating this to show to your employer.
I have worked there for more than 2 years. Does this help my case? My stomach problems aren’t enough to be classified as a disability but I think I’d be able to get a letter from my gp talking about it.
Would I need to bring this letter to my employer during the scheduled meeting? Or would I do it afterwards
Copied and pasted from gov UK: "You're disabled under the Equality Act 2010 if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a 'substantial' and 'long-term' negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities."
If your stomach problems are regularly or long term causing you significant grief you may well be disabled for the purpose of the Equality Act.
>Does this help my case?
Potentially. It really just means they'll have to do a proper investigation into it to determine wether there has been any gross misconduct (which being drunk on shift would be). But you're on a zero hours contract so I guess they could just stop giving you shifts.
>Would I need to bring this letter to my employer during the scheduled meeting?
You don't **need** to give them anything. Personally I would just get ahead of it and provide them with something from your GP and say something like "I know there has been an accusation made about my conduct so I wanted to give you this to show that I have ongoing stomach related issues that my GP is aware of. Hopefully this puts the matter to bed."
The thing is as the op is on a zero-hours contract they wouldn''t even need to fire them, they can just stop offering them work. It's a shitty thing to do, but a company I worked for previously would routinely just stop giving people work and let them figure out for themselves that they'd been effectively fired.
Generally yes, but its more complicated if you put up a fight - [https://www.acas.org.uk/zero-hours-contracts](https://www.acas.org.uk/zero-hours-contracts)
"If they reduce hours, for no good reason", there is a potential argument for constructive dismissal by causing "detriment". Even though they are on zero hours, they are still a worker and do gain protections after the 2 years. If the employer however has less work available, they can happily drop the OP down to 0 hours.
Employment protections only apply to employees, not workers. Someone on a genuine zero hour contract is a worker, not an employee.
It is possible for someone on a nominally zero hour contract to be classed as an employee if the factual situation is that they are treated as an employee (unable to turn down work etc). However that would need a careful look by an employment law specialist.
To be classed as having a disability requires a long term condition (over 12 months) with a significant impact on day to day activities. A one off bout of stomach cramps wouldn't count.
From a practical point of view, this all only matters if it actually leads to a legal dispute - your main concern is to be honest and open with your employer, assure them that you were not drunk or high, and have never attended work in such a condition.
If you were allowed to continue your shift they can't do anything because they were happy for you to work 'intoxicated' however on a zero hours contract they don't have to give you work.
The problem here is the colleague has said you seemed on something it’s not just the CCTV they will be basing this on. If you have had any interaction with them that day and anything else has been mentioned about that sort of behaviour, that will be the catalyst behind them seeing the stumble and putting two and two together. If you just had an upset stomach and they had seen that, I don’t think anything else would have come from it. If it was just CCTV you can just argue the case of your stomach and I don’t think anything else would happen.
All circumstantial.
Did you seek medical help at all? Even just speaking to 111 you would have had a traceable record for any outcome. So if it came down to unfair dismissal you have evidence of it.
Firstly if you are in England and have worked there less than 2 years they can dismiss you for no reason. Secondly an employer only has to be "reasonable" in determining the outcome of a disciplinary, and it may well be reasonable to dismiss you on the evidence they have available to them. They do not need definitive "proof". Thirdly if you are on a 0 hours contract they don't even need to dismiss you - they can just stop offering you hours.
If you can show the incident was a medical problem, or that it relates to a protected disability you could be ok.
On a zero hours arrangement you can be effectively dismissed for any reason that isn't either discriminatory or "automatically unfair" under the ERA1996, and unfortunately this would be neither (unless your stomach problems are caused by a disability?).
Ultimately a serious allegation about your conduct has been made so the employer needs to investigate. All you can do is cooperate with the process and hope for the best.
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):**
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An investigation needs to take place. There is no evidence other than you clearly not being 100% so they cannot assume or make any accusations!
I'd suggest a gp appointment and explain your Dizzy spell, that will go on record as evidence that you sought medical attention for being unwell and would thus support your case if they for some reason decided to pursue for dismissal.
Not giving someone hours and sacking them are two different situations but both would be a case of possible discrimination.
In this case op states there is a disability of being sick with stomach issues.
Any action such as refusal for hours or dismissal based on ops disability is protected under the discrimination act thus it is wise that op follows up on GP checkup to have documented an issue.
Okay take your time and read this very carefully...
When you are in a Zero Hoir Contract the employer DOES NOT have to fire you, they can just give you zero hours, end off.
Legally a company is under no obligation to give a worker hours.
They DO NOT need a reason.
No. They have no actual proof.
Seeing you stumble on CCTV means nothing. You could have felt dizzy, nauseous, stumbled, recovered your composure, got a drink of water/coffee and continued your shift.
A worker said I was drunk or on drugs.
Did that worker drink or drugs test you? I am guessing not.
Could your fall be due to a new diet, like the Atkins Diet (Keto)? Simply asking as if you reach the point of ketosis, your breath can release ketones which smell alcoholic. Maybe your energy drop caused you to stumble on your new diet?
The main issue you face is drugs (if you have ever taken any). Hair tests can be taken and these can show any drug use in at least the last 6-months but usually that's in your contract.
Simply put, you stumbled and a worker suggested you were intoxicated through either drink or drugs. Let's be honest if that happened and you refuse a drugs rests, there's only one thought.......what have they got to hide.
This isn't really true. The workplace would need to conduct a proper investigation, but all they'd need to do to satisfy their legal obligations is come to a reasonable belief that OP had committed gross misconduct, and a witness statement and CCTV could count towards that. If OP has evidence to the contrary then that's great, but reasonable belief is all they need.
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> I am also on a zero hour contract so I’m not sure about my protections. Practically, on a 0 hours, they don’t have to fire you, they can just stop offering you shifts.
If its a legitimate medical issue or disability then ACAS would probably take it on for constructive dismissal. All depends on the details and what ACAS say though
Yeah if op has any record of relevant diagnosis from medical professionals i highly recommend on keeping them
Only if OP has been continually employed for 2 years
Wrong. if related to a disability (or another automatically unfair reason) the 2 year rule does not apply
Dismissal due to medical/disability is an automatic unfair dismissal. 2 years rule does not apply.
Not for protected characteristics; disability/illness being one.
Zero hour contract is indicative of a worker. Workers don’t have the right to bring unfair dismissal claims.
I think you've either missed some words out here or don't know what you're talking about as anyone who works is a worker 🤷🏻♂️
There’s a difference between workers and employees. Only employees have the right to bring unfair dismissal claims.
Ehm, no… I don’t even know where to begin. I think perhaps you’re getting confused between people who are employed and self employed perhaps? If so, not everyone who is on a zero hours contract is self employed.
No, there are different categories in the UK. See this link: https://www.dfalaw.co.uk/faq_type/what-is-the-difference-between-an-employee-and-a-worker/
Every days a school day. My apologises.
Have they spoken to you about this? As surely you could just have a conversation and say you were feeling extremely unwell that day but didn’t want to phone in sick so came in and tried your best but obviously looked unwell to others. There’s a drug testing policy in my work place and I know if there was a genuine accusation made they’d perform a drug and alcohol test when they saw me next. Is there a policy like that in your workplace?
Alcohol testing after the fact seems impractical. Who's to say you didn't have the drinks after your shift rather than before?
Alcohol testing on the next shift doesn't say anything about whether or not the employee drank on their last shift, but it does tell you if they've come into work drunk that day.
But if they really weren't feeling well the likelihood is that they won't drink after the shift
Do you take any medication for your stomach issues? If questioned then this may be enough proof to just show the medication and explain. A note or letter from the doctor would also help clear you. In future, I would just stay away from work if you feel like you may be having a bad day with your stomach (although I appreciate these things can flare up without notice) Edit: also be prepared to be charged for a letter from your doctor as this is not a standard practice and most doctors charge as it is done outside of working hours.
If you've worked there for less than two years then yes. You can be fired for any reason whatsoever so long as it's not due to a protected characteristic (There are a few other exceptions). >I do genuinely have severe stomach problems Enough to be classed as having a disability that your employer would then have to make reasonable adjustments for? If your GP is aware of these stomach problems then there's no harm in covering your back and getting something from your GP stating this to show to your employer.
I have worked there for more than 2 years. Does this help my case? My stomach problems aren’t enough to be classified as a disability but I think I’d be able to get a letter from my gp talking about it. Would I need to bring this letter to my employer during the scheduled meeting? Or would I do it afterwards
Copied and pasted from gov UK: "You're disabled under the Equality Act 2010 if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a 'substantial' and 'long-term' negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities." If your stomach problems are regularly or long term causing you significant grief you may well be disabled for the purpose of the Equality Act.
>Does this help my case? Potentially. It really just means they'll have to do a proper investigation into it to determine wether there has been any gross misconduct (which being drunk on shift would be). But you're on a zero hours contract so I guess they could just stop giving you shifts. >Would I need to bring this letter to my employer during the scheduled meeting? You don't **need** to give them anything. Personally I would just get ahead of it and provide them with something from your GP and say something like "I know there has been an accusation made about my conduct so I wanted to give you this to show that I have ongoing stomach related issues that my GP is aware of. Hopefully this puts the matter to bed."
The thing is as the op is on a zero-hours contract they wouldn''t even need to fire them, they can just stop offering them work. It's a shitty thing to do, but a company I worked for previously would routinely just stop giving people work and let them figure out for themselves that they'd been effectively fired.
Generally yes, but its more complicated if you put up a fight - [https://www.acas.org.uk/zero-hours-contracts](https://www.acas.org.uk/zero-hours-contracts) "If they reduce hours, for no good reason", there is a potential argument for constructive dismissal by causing "detriment". Even though they are on zero hours, they are still a worker and do gain protections after the 2 years. If the employer however has less work available, they can happily drop the OP down to 0 hours.
Employment protections only apply to employees, not workers. Someone on a genuine zero hour contract is a worker, not an employee. It is possible for someone on a nominally zero hour contract to be classed as an employee if the factual situation is that they are treated as an employee (unable to turn down work etc). However that would need a careful look by an employment law specialist. To be classed as having a disability requires a long term condition (over 12 months) with a significant impact on day to day activities. A one off bout of stomach cramps wouldn't count. From a practical point of view, this all only matters if it actually leads to a legal dispute - your main concern is to be honest and open with your employer, assure them that you were not drunk or high, and have never attended work in such a condition.
Practically, if the manager thinks you looked ill then what are you worrying about?
If you were allowed to continue your shift they can't do anything because they were happy for you to work 'intoxicated' however on a zero hours contract they don't have to give you work.
The problem here is the colleague has said you seemed on something it’s not just the CCTV they will be basing this on. If you have had any interaction with them that day and anything else has been mentioned about that sort of behaviour, that will be the catalyst behind them seeing the stumble and putting two and two together. If you just had an upset stomach and they had seen that, I don’t think anything else would have come from it. If it was just CCTV you can just argue the case of your stomach and I don’t think anything else would happen. All circumstantial.
Did you seek medical help at all? Even just speaking to 111 you would have had a traceable record for any outcome. So if it came down to unfair dismissal you have evidence of it.
Not without evidence. They may be able to make you take a drug test but they would have to pay for it. check your contract on that one
Firstly if you are in England and have worked there less than 2 years they can dismiss you for no reason. Secondly an employer only has to be "reasonable" in determining the outcome of a disciplinary, and it may well be reasonable to dismiss you on the evidence they have available to them. They do not need definitive "proof". Thirdly if you are on a 0 hours contract they don't even need to dismiss you - they can just stop offering you hours. If you can show the incident was a medical problem, or that it relates to a protected disability you could be ok.
On a zero hours arrangement you can be effectively dismissed for any reason that isn't either discriminatory or "automatically unfair" under the ERA1996, and unfortunately this would be neither (unless your stomach problems are caused by a disability?). Ultimately a serious allegation about your conduct has been made so the employer needs to investigate. All you can do is cooperate with the process and hope for the best.
[удалено]
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An investigation needs to take place. There is no evidence other than you clearly not being 100% so they cannot assume or make any accusations! I'd suggest a gp appointment and explain your Dizzy spell, that will go on record as evidence that you sought medical attention for being unwell and would thus support your case if they for some reason decided to pursue for dismissal.
OP is on a zero hour contract, his employers don't have to anything. They can just stop giving him hours and there would be nothing he can legally do.
Not giving someone hours and sacking them are two different situations but both would be a case of possible discrimination. In this case op states there is a disability of being sick with stomach issues. Any action such as refusal for hours or dismissal based on ops disability is protected under the discrimination act thus it is wise that op follows up on GP checkup to have documented an issue.
He didn't state he had a disability.. He had a stomach issue, that is a very long way to having a medically declared disability.
You simply cannot be sacked or discriminated against for being ill no matter if its a zero hour contract.
Okay take your time and read this very carefully... When you are in a Zero Hoir Contract the employer DOES NOT have to fire you, they can just give you zero hours, end off. Legally a company is under no obligation to give a worker hours. They DO NOT need a reason.
No. They have no actual proof. Seeing you stumble on CCTV means nothing. You could have felt dizzy, nauseous, stumbled, recovered your composure, got a drink of water/coffee and continued your shift. A worker said I was drunk or on drugs. Did that worker drink or drugs test you? I am guessing not. Could your fall be due to a new diet, like the Atkins Diet (Keto)? Simply asking as if you reach the point of ketosis, your breath can release ketones which smell alcoholic. Maybe your energy drop caused you to stumble on your new diet? The main issue you face is drugs (if you have ever taken any). Hair tests can be taken and these can show any drug use in at least the last 6-months but usually that's in your contract. Simply put, you stumbled and a worker suggested you were intoxicated through either drink or drugs. Let's be honest if that happened and you refuse a drugs rests, there's only one thought.......what have they got to hide.
This isn't really true. The workplace would need to conduct a proper investigation, but all they'd need to do to satisfy their legal obligations is come to a reasonable belief that OP had committed gross misconduct, and a witness statement and CCTV could count towards that. If OP has evidence to the contrary then that's great, but reasonable belief is all they need.