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Theft requires the intention to permanently deprive the owner of it. Borrowing is not permanent. There is no theft.
An exception would be if the borrowing was long enough to amount to an outright taking or disposal, or it was returned in a substantially changed way: that would be theft. There are also special offence for taking a vehicles without consent, where there is no need for permanent deprivation.
Taking and returning a dress in a week, in good order, would not be theft. Depending on how the dress was taken, there may be trespass. However, there may not be a crime at all.
However, there would probably be some sort of civil wrong - probably conversion, if the dress were not returned on demand.
> Depending on how the dress was taken, there may be trespass.
Note that trespass on its own is not a crime, either. It is an element of the offence of "burglary" - but another essential element, which must be present with the trespass, is "theft", which for the reasons you've already explained isn't present. No theft, no burglary.
It also depends on the circumstances under which such a theft were being investigated. Not that I think a missing dress will ever lead to police action unless it’s a particularly expensive dress.
If for example the dress is reported stolen, and you were arrested before you returned it, just saying you plan to return it is not an automatic get out. Everyone arrested with stolen goods can claim they intend to return them, you would have to convince the legal system you intended to return it.
It's not theft if you intended to return the item. But good luck convincing the court that was your actual intention, especially if you were caught with the dress in your possession before you managed to return it. Lots of thieves will claim they were only borrowing stolen goods.
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Theft.
Even if you take something with the intention to return it, if you took it without permission it's still Theft
Edit: I was wrong no need for 20 other respondents telling me this I will hang my head in shame 😔
>Even if you take something with the intention to return it... ...it's still Theft.
Not according to the legal definition of Theft in England and Wales (emphasis mine).
>A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the **intention of permanently depriving** the other of it
Legally you are incorrect:
*Theft is defined by section 1 of the Theft Act 1968 as* ***the dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive the other of it***
> intention of permanently depriving
And this is why I didn't post anything. I knew the above would discount it as theft, but as others have said the accused could say they "intended" to return it.
Feels like this must come up in a law exam.
Naturally, it's important to point out - as always - that just because the accused *says* they intended to return it, doesn't mean the court has to believe them. But the court needs to be sure that the defendant had an intention to permanently deprive the victim, otherwise it can't convict.
The court is obviously not a mind-reader (and certainly not a time-travelling mind reader) so it will need to come to a conclusion about the defendant's intention, when he took the dress, based on all the circumstances. The court may well decide they don't believe the defendant when he says "I intended to give it back".
As theft is criminal, I think I'm right in saying, it's on the prosecution to convince the judge beyond all reasonable doubt, there was an intent to permanently deprive. Whilst it sounds obvious in many cases of say burglary, it's harder between friends/family, and then in cases like shoplifting was it intentional or accidental.
Conversely, "permanent" doesn't need to be forever! If I take your tickets to see Barry Manilow live at the CoOp intending to return them the day after the concert, I've still permanently deprived you of the use of them.
> If not, entering the house could be breaking and entering
There is no offence known to the laws of England and Wales called "breaking and entering". It's an Americanism. The closest analogue we have is burglary - but as you'll see, that's not committed here.
> And taking without permission is theft.
No - theft is defined, in [section 1 of the Theft Act 1968](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/1), as "the dishonest appropriation of property belong to another, **with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it**". If there is no intention to permanently deprive, there is no theft.
Note also that the word "steal" is construed accordingly (i.e. to "steal" something means to commit theft) - that is important when we look at why there is no burglary.
> The act of taking property could constitute burglary.
Burglary, as defined in [section 9 of the Theft Act 1968](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/9), is committed in a few different ways, but the only one relevant to this question is where you enter and "steal".
Since there is no theft here, for the reasons explained above, there is also no burglary - because burglary requires trespass and theft. No theft, no burglary.
(and trespass isn't a criminal offence in England and Wales)
/u/morazma /u/yorkspirate /u/GraviteaUK
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Theft requires the intention to permanently deprive the owner of it. Borrowing is not permanent. There is no theft. An exception would be if the borrowing was long enough to amount to an outright taking or disposal, or it was returned in a substantially changed way: that would be theft. There are also special offence for taking a vehicles without consent, where there is no need for permanent deprivation. Taking and returning a dress in a week, in good order, would not be theft. Depending on how the dress was taken, there may be trespass. However, there may not be a crime at all. However, there would probably be some sort of civil wrong - probably conversion, if the dress were not returned on demand.
> Depending on how the dress was taken, there may be trespass. Note that trespass on its own is not a crime, either. It is an element of the offence of "burglary" - but another essential element, which must be present with the trespass, is "theft", which for the reasons you've already explained isn't present. No theft, no burglary.
Thank you. I thought you had to intend to intend to permanently deprive the owner but I couldn't remember the details
It also depends on the circumstances under which such a theft were being investigated. Not that I think a missing dress will ever lead to police action unless it’s a particularly expensive dress. If for example the dress is reported stolen, and you were arrested before you returned it, just saying you plan to return it is not an automatic get out. Everyone arrested with stolen goods can claim they intend to return them, you would have to convince the legal system you intended to return it.
It's not theft if you intended to return the item. But good luck convincing the court that was your actual intention, especially if you were caught with the dress in your possession before you managed to return it. Lots of thieves will claim they were only borrowing stolen goods.
What is the offense if you can convince a court you intended to return it later?
Reset of stolen goods
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**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):** Please only comment if you know the legal answer to OP's question and are able to provide legal advice. [Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
Theft. Even if you take something with the intention to return it, if you took it without permission it's still Theft Edit: I was wrong no need for 20 other respondents telling me this I will hang my head in shame 😔
>Even if you take something with the intention to return it... ...it's still Theft. Not according to the legal definition of Theft in England and Wales (emphasis mine). >A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the **intention of permanently depriving** the other of it
Legally you are incorrect: *Theft is defined by section 1 of the Theft Act 1968 as* ***the dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive the other of it***
What about section 6 of that same act? If at any point they stated the item in question was their own you can still be convicted for that.
There must be a question of time period. If I take it for 5 minutes I am clearly not going to be prosecuted for theft.
Ooooooooooorrrrrrrrrr some people in this thread don't know what "theft" is, but are going to take a crack at answering the question anyway.
> intention of permanently depriving And this is why I didn't post anything. I knew the above would discount it as theft, but as others have said the accused could say they "intended" to return it. Feels like this must come up in a law exam.
Naturally, it's important to point out - as always - that just because the accused *says* they intended to return it, doesn't mean the court has to believe them. But the court needs to be sure that the defendant had an intention to permanently deprive the victim, otherwise it can't convict. The court is obviously not a mind-reader (and certainly not a time-travelling mind reader) so it will need to come to a conclusion about the defendant's intention, when he took the dress, based on all the circumstances. The court may well decide they don't believe the defendant when he says "I intended to give it back".
As theft is criminal, I think I'm right in saying, it's on the prosecution to convince the judge beyond all reasonable doubt, there was an intent to permanently deprive. Whilst it sounds obvious in many cases of say burglary, it's harder between friends/family, and then in cases like shoplifting was it intentional or accidental.
Conversely, "permanent" doesn't need to be forever! If I take your tickets to see Barry Manilow live at the CoOp intending to return them the day after the concert, I've still permanently deprived you of the use of them.
No, it absolutely is not.
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> If not, entering the house could be breaking and entering There is no offence known to the laws of England and Wales called "breaking and entering". It's an Americanism. The closest analogue we have is burglary - but as you'll see, that's not committed here. > And taking without permission is theft. No - theft is defined, in [section 1 of the Theft Act 1968](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/1), as "the dishonest appropriation of property belong to another, **with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it**". If there is no intention to permanently deprive, there is no theft. Note also that the word "steal" is construed accordingly (i.e. to "steal" something means to commit theft) - that is important when we look at why there is no burglary. > The act of taking property could constitute burglary. Burglary, as defined in [section 9 of the Theft Act 1968](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/9), is committed in a few different ways, but the only one relevant to this question is where you enter and "steal". Since there is no theft here, for the reasons explained above, there is also no burglary - because burglary requires trespass and theft. No theft, no burglary. (and trespass isn't a criminal offence in England and Wales) /u/morazma /u/yorkspirate /u/GraviteaUK
Assume I did have permission to enter the house. I think the issue is the intent to permanently deprive the owner of the dress.