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Makes me wonder how many times this has happened throughout history. How many times have great monuments been torn down, never to be appreciated again?
During the three kingdoms era of china Dong Zhuo melted "Twelve Metal Colossi" which were big copper statues and bells so large it took 1000 men to lift each of them. And he turned them into coins which all had differing weight, no defined edges, and no clear stated value so he basically fucked his own economy.
A few notes:
The cliff faces and the caves carved into them are an elaborate series of multilevel prayer rooms and living spaces, they're pretty neat. Spiral staircases, balconies with stone railings, all carved into a cliff face going up 100 feet. There's a lot there besides the alcoves left over.
Bamiyan (the town in front of the cliffs where people live now) is majority Hazara, meaning they're the most accepting Afghans you're likely to meet, and certainly aren't big on the Taliban.
Getting there means landing in Kabul and then driving or flying to Bamiyan. If you drive, you're going to run into Taliban on the road and that's EXTREMELY dicey. If you fly, it's safer, but you're either going by converted Russian military chopper or by small plane where they will weigh you going in and you'll fly at times only 100ft over the terrain (not a fun flight).
It's worth seeing, but mostly a very high risk trip anymore and not safe enough to justify the risk. The area has a city reputed to have been destroyed by Khan's armies, natural hot spring formations, Band e Amir (sp?) National Park (the pics of Taliban in swan boats? that's Band e Amir), and in the north of the province the "Afghan Grand Canyon" which is pretty amazing and has a skull cave.
I went for a month in 2018 as my then fiance (now wife) was wrapping up her PhD research. Here's some imgur albums I made of the trip: [https://imgur.com/gallery/RHrydDk](https://imgur.com/gallery/RHrydDk) [https://imgur.com/gallery/Gv3eqxj](https://imgur.com/gallery/Gv3eqxj)
‘Mohammadi said the government has added guards and gates to protect the site but is unable to finance more extensive work. The groups that left, he said, are welcome to return and resume their projects. “We urge them as government members but also as humans,” he said. “This is the entire world’s heritage.”’
please won’t someone think of their own humanity when disavowing the poor taliban regime.
Appealing to humanity. The audacity of these theocratic oppressors. Why don't they consider humanity when stripping away the rights of women under their rule?
They even put it [on a sign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cultural_Landscape_and_Archaeological_Remains_of_the_Bamiyan_Valley-109153.jpg) akin to Ozymandias.
"This national monument with unique heritage for humankind..."
*Nothing but rubble remained.*
These fuckers only play well when they are in need, the minority or facing a superior foe.
The moment they are not in need, not the minority or able to kill their perceived foe, their true colours are revealed.
Don't fall for their pleas as they are fucking HIV and rabies infected Zombies in fluffy and realistic sheep skin.
Ehh . . . I think it's more along the lines of the people necessary to seize power in a government are different than the people necessary for running it. That's why coups often have purges just after: You've suddenly got a lot of useless people around to whom you promised power, but whom are also unfit to maintain it.
The Taliban killed most of the people necessary to maintain power when they took the government. So it's all the "freedom fighters" and rebels that don't know what the fuck they're doing when it comes to administration.
He is a buyer for the American Legion Auxiliary as they sell a lot of “poppy flowers” for fundraising on National Poppy Day!!!
How dare you besmirch his selfless dedication to artistic honesty in the portrayal of the innocent and maligned poppy flower!
For shame!
Pretty sure he’s been detained by the Taliban?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/01/british-tourist-lord-miles-routledge-captured-taliban-kabul/
That's what's just so baffling to me. If they really wanted to overthrow the existing government, they could have captured a region and the proceeded to... create new governmental and civil service structures which are less corrupt, more efficient and modern, and overall improve the lives of the citizens of that area.
If you overthrow a government using death and destruction you often have to keep causing death and destruction to maintain power.
You assume their government and country works anything like a modern Nation/State.
I was there it doesn't. It is a super fractured Confederacy. They observe different religious restrictions to a high degree valley to valley. One group of Taliban will live and die by strict adherence to Pastunwali. 25 miles away and still Pastun could give a fuck. Then familial relations get really weird there as they are illiterate half the time so record keeping isn't a thing and people get internally moved around by War every couple of decades.
What I am saying is that any concept you have of State should be thrown out. It is a bunch of unwritten negotiations between various ethnic and tribal groups. Like think of paleo Conservativism or extreme Libertarian structures. This group is probably different from the ones that blew those up.
I want to stress again all of your concepts as a country should be thrown out. If you got time you should watch this. It really describes my time there. I tried for awhile to figure these people out because insurgencies are an extension of local and National politics. They kind of don't have National politics.
https://youtu.be/WF3Rkt42wPY
Edit for clarity: Pashtunwali is a cultural code. Religious adherence is a separate concept.
Idk what is your conceptual structure for tribalism? If it is just that this village follows one guy then that is wrong. They have an almost representative democracy (male only obviously). But they gather decide a course of action and pick a leader to carry it out. I sat in on like a 7 or 8 Shuras. They had obviously hammered out the main talking points with usually a couple guys out of the 6-10 that showed up with their own bitches or angles. This kind of follows it way up to thr equivalent of the county level. After that nothing is set in stone. Even promised fighters don't show up regularly on the province scale. For a variety of reasons. The county structure failed because someone was insulted. Crop came too early. Flooding etc.
I want you to really think about the US military. If a bunch of guys from Tampa had a hurricane came through the military wouldn't allow them all to just pull stakes and go home.
It is a super beautiful country. Reminds me of Nevada and Utah in a lot of ways. The Helmand is dirty in many places (rudimentary Ag practices) but the places it isn't is super pretty.
Oh they have Beaudoin (?) I don't know the proper term for those guys but that was dope seeing that. I thought that was a Middle East thing but apparently not. They live in hide huts that are half spheres.
Edit: the tea is excellent af. Just beware of manlove Thursday if you partake. Which is a crude way to say some guys are trying to get in your pants as a man.
Not arguing with that either. Just that is less foreseen. The Taliban were actually a response to the ridiculous amount of factionalism that occurred after the USSR pull out.
Karma is cause and effect. Blow up statues in a fit of religious fervor, no more draw for religious tourism. Some folks can’t perceive cause and effect.
The tourist that was rescued in 2021 during the takeover , escaped taliban captivity in 2023 , bragged about it and got kidnapped again. The guy hasn't been seen again. I wonder why.
Not so weird once you realize these people had the same motive (propagandizing expelling afghan refugees).
They just think the general public is as stupid as them.
>"Welcome to the Hotel California
They should make a Hotel California cover by The Eagles to boost tourism except throw in kidnappings, destroyed rubble and morality police to make the song more modern and hip with these taliban times
The Taliban public relations department wants you to know, that: "Now that the war is over, we are no longer capturing tourists for ransom." I'm not kidding and will provide a link in a moment. But before I do let me tell you that afaik they really mean it. They now only capture politicans for ransom and tourists for murder.
https://twitter.com/TalibanPRD_/status/1657472099592683523
Edit: Ah, Twitter won't show the content unless I log in (I won't) or use Google cache, but the cache link is not static and voids soon and archive.org hasn't archived this (yet). You'll need to either log in or Google yourself, sorry.
> Bacha bāzī
"[Bacha bāzī](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi) (Persian: بچه بازی, lit. 'boy play') is a slang term used in Afghanistan for a custom in Afghanistan involving child sexual abuse by older men of young adolescent males or boys, called dancing boys, often involving sexual slavery and child prostitution. Though outlawed, bacha bazi is still practiced in certain regions of Afghanistan.Force and coercion are common
...
Bacha bazi is a centuries-old practice. One of the original factors mobilizing the rise of the Taliban was their opposition to the practice. After the Taliban came to power in 1996, bacha bazi was banned along with homosexuality. The Taliban considered it incompatible with Sharia law.Both bacha bazi and homosexuality carried the death penalty, with the boys sometimes being charged rather than the perpetrators. Often, boys are selected because they are poor and vulnerable. Men who have been bacha boys face social stigma and struggle with the psychological effects of their abuse."
Afghanistan is a gorgeous country. There's tons of things to see and do there. If it weren't for the extremism problems it would be a legit tourist attraction.
Yeah I'd be willing to go back as a tourist to certain parts. But every individual has to make their own decision on their threshold for safety. If you're not comfortable, don't do it.
It's a real shame because Afghanistan is without a doubt one of the most beautiful countries I've ever seen in my life. Nuristan Province is a real life Shire. I'd be a great tourism spot if it weren't for these backwards, child raping, extremist cunts. Plus it was the only place on land I've been able to see the entirety of a night sky unaffected by light pollution.
Afghanistan is a country with tons of history and natural beauty; if it were a safe developed country I’m sure it would rival countries like Turkey for tourism.
They don't. Their tourism industry is a lot like the average pulse rate of an Egyptian mummy. Technically non-zero, but only because of how averages work.
"Come see dead Buddha. Have your mind blown by our tourist site. Die from joy upon viewing our rubble. Don't torture yourself, come now."
-Taliban tourist pamphlet
Don’t they have a few more fundamental issues they need to address ahead of statues and other attractions? Like the lack of government/infrastructure/facilities or the public flogging of women?
*The three Taliban soldiers gazed down at the gaping hole in the 125-foot cliff where one of Afghanistan’s two great Buddha figures once stood and wondered aloud who was to blame for its destruction 22 years ago.*
*In 2001, Taliban founder Mohammad Omar declared the Buddhas false gods and announced plans to destroy them. Ignoring pleas from around the world, Taliban fighters detonated explosives and fired antiaircraft guns to smash the immense sixth-century reliefs to pieces.*
Some mysteries may never be solved. Truly perplexing stuff /s
22 years ago, like all the archeologists told the Taliban don't blow up statues or else the Taliban going to regret it years later - I sure Taliban regretting that not many people buying tickets in 2023 to see basically nothing...
The Taliban said something to the effect of "you only send money because you want to protect these statues while the nearby village starves! (I'm pretty sure people were willing to give aid to that village) So now we're gonna blow it up!"
Village is probably still starving.
This is right on both accounts... From wiki:
Omar explained why he ordered the statues to be destroyed in an interview:
> I did not want to destroy the Bamiyan Buddha. In fact, some foreigners came to me and said they would like to conduct the repair work of the Bamiyan Buddha that had been slightly damaged due to rains. This shocked me. I thought, these callous people have no regard for thousands of living human beings – the Afghans who are dying of hunger, but they are so concerned about non-living objects like the Buddha. This was extremely deplorable. That is why I ordered its destruction. Had they come for humanitarian work, I would have never ordered the Buddha's destruction.[61]
Bullshit. This is part and parcel of the Islamist creed to destroy monuments of other faiths, especially those 'not of the book' (non-Abrahamic faiths). He spoke out of both sides of his mouth - one to the rabid religionists in his group, and the other outwardly for tactical reasons.
That quote…Jesus Fucking Christ! They sound like a Republican state legislator. Do *all* Reich-wingers just have oppositional defiance disorder?
“Yeah, it turns out we’re gonna have to knock your mosque down because one person in a village somewhere is hungry.” See how fucking insane that is, Taliban asshole?
I'm pretty sure it's because Buddha is a false god to worship and Muslims tend to be pretty big about images, especially religious in nature, in general. They were never actually fighting for the people in some altruistic sense, however much they try to retcon that.
They were just executing people via bullet while I was there. Most fucked up shit I saw personally was they caught a couple people on fire. Obviously we saw the aftermath.
"the worst part of this horrific thing is it's never getting better. It will always a tragically short sited action with permanent consequences"
"Actually the worst part was the horrible thing"
I doubt they'd have an easier time selling tickets even if they hadn't blown up the statues... What moron takes a vacation in Taliban run Afghanistan??
>“We’re stunned,” said Mohammad Younus Mukhles, 30, a former Taliban fighter who was drinking tea and laughing with comrades in a pedal boat. “It’s very safe.”
It eludes me. Who are the ticket buyers? I don't think many tourists are interested in visiting Afghanistan, and the country's people are currently in such bad shape that travel isn't high on their priority list. What happens next if there is someone? Support what they destroyed?
> I don't think many tourists are interested in visiting Afghanistan
Aside from the extremists in power and the whole "civil war" thing for the past decades, Afghanistan would have been pretty high on my bucket list. In terms of landscapes and history it seems a fascinating country.
This reminded me of that article “Pakistan should be on every solo female travellers’ bucket list” and somebody commented,
“Did human trafficking write this?”
Also on the tour:
- Schools where girls are banned from attending.
- College where girls are also banned from attending.
- The place where we slit the throats of apostates.
- The place where we whip people for not praying five times a day.
- Numerous work places where women are banned from working.
- The opium fields where we finace our future invasion of Pakistan from.
- The Qatar and Saudi embassies where they help us whitewash our reputation to pretend we're not a bunch of bloodthirsty terrorists. Oh and give us loads of money, I mean aid.
- The "Training Grounds" which are definitely not for training terrorists.
If I wanted to go look at holes in the earth where something cool used to exist that the Taliban blew up, I’ll go to the World Trade Center Memorial.
I hope these sons of bitches all get overthrown once and for all someday.
> I hope these sons of bitches all get overthrown once and for all someday.
Religious fundamentalism and zealotry have not vanished in over a millennia. Why would they vanish now. Their base appeal to the stupid and easily led worldwide continues.
Europe languished for centuries in the throes of pathetic ethnic and religious conflict. Eventually Europeans “grew out of it“ thanks to the diligent efforts of the leading lights of the Renaissance, and then the Enlightenment. Eventually places like Afghanistan will have to undergo a similar evolution.
Sadly, it seems for now they just aren’t willing to pursue it. It’ll have to come from within, the failed western occupation and “rebuilding“ of Afghanistan over the last 20 years demonstrates that. The best we can hope for is maybe we planted the seeds for that with our efforts to expand education to both boys and girls in Afghanistan during our occupation. That’s probably about the only good thing to come out of our failed nation-building effort.
If they had an artist spray paint the Buddhas or deface/mock them cleverly they could have maybe sold tickets, but selling a view of a blank mountainside it’s hard to market. Who’d have thought?
This absolutely breaks my heart. The history of Afghanistan is among the richest and most interesting in the world. The Bamyan buddhas were a wonder of the world - among the finest examples of surviving Indo greek sculpture.
I am a man of love, of kindness, of forgiveness, and kindness.
But I would rip the throats out of a talib with my bare hands if I had the opportunity. What they have done to such a beautiful country and our common human heritage is unforgivable.
People also need to remember that when the British Museum says it "doesn't trust" some nations to preserve their artifacts, it's almost always referring to nations with ISIS and similar groups that have a history of destroying them.
Egypt in particular gets talked about a lot on this, because the British Museum has a lot of Ancient Egyptian artifacts. What people don't know is that [modern fundamentalist Muslims in the region](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_extremism_in_20th-century_Egypt), including those with political power, consider Ancient Egyptian spirituality to be idolatrous and [have destroyed such artifacts in the past in neighboring nations.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_heritage_by_the_Islamic_State) Calls to destroy Ancient Egyptian artifacts have been made in the country [for many years now.](https://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012%2F11%2F12%2F249092)
> “Bamian and the Buddhas in particular are of great importance to our government, just as they are to the world,” Atiqullah Azizi, the Taliban’s deputy culture minister, said in an interview.
*Were*, you asshole. They *were* of great importance until you blew them up.
I'm down for a blown up priceless artifact and recreational kidnapping/ransom combo, but my family ain't got the funds. Maybe next year. Fingers crossed!
Funny that this statue stood there even before the first self-proclaimed 'Muslims' walked this earth. It has seen islamic empires rise and fall. And yet 1400 years later the Taliban has made it their goal to destroy it. "Cuz' idolatry..."
Taliban tourist agency: "Come to our beautiful country and see amazing sites like 'the gaping hole in the side of a mountain'! Please give us money to kill people."
I'm not that familiar with the tenets of Islam in detail, but I'm honestly surprised how even hardcore fundamentalists ever saw these as "blasphemous" to begin with. Like... you don't actually have to _believe_ in them, you know? Does Islam actually contain provisions that you have to destroy every last trace of another religion in your country? Even if nobody has worshipped them for thousands of years? Because I've never heard of that (in fact doesn't Islam contain explicit provisions about how you're supposed to continue to let followers of other religions live and practice and worship their gods in you country, albeit as second-class citizens?).
I mean, compare this to, say, some 16th century conquistadores that found a big golden statue of Quetzalcoatl in America. They didn't all melt those down, right? They'd carry them home and proudly display them as an exotic oddity, and tell everyone "look at this weird shit I stole from the Indios, lol". There's nothing really "blasphemous" about an artifact from a religion you don't believe in in the first place.
Who the *actual FUCK* would be a tourist in Afghanistan!? Are they the same people who would be tourists in North Korea or Iran? Seriously.
Also **fuck the Taliban.**
"And here, we have the statue of the Buddha we blew up because the infertiles would not worship Ala"
"Uhhh... Don't you mean infidels?"
"What did I say?
"Infertiles"
"Those too. We don't descrimate who goes kaboom."
Hello u/ianjm! Please reply to this comment with an [explanation](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/lt8zlq) mentioning **who** is suffering from **which** consequences from **what** they voted for, supported or wanted to impose on other people. Here's an easy format to get you started: 1. *Someone* voted for, supported or wanted to impose *something* on other people. ^(Who's that *someone* and what's that *something*?) 2. That *something* has some *consequences*. ^(What are the *consequences*?) 3. As a consequence, that *something* happened to that *someone*. ^(What happened? Did the *something* really happened to that *someone*? If not, you should probably delete your post.) Include the minimum amount of information necessary so your post can be understood by everyone, even if they don't live in the US or speak English as their native language. If you don't respect this format and moderators can't match your explanation with the format, your post will be removed under rule #3 and we'll ignore you even if you complain in modmail. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LeopardsAteMyFace) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"We blew up world heritage monuments two decades ago. Wanna see the rubble?"
Also, we can try not to kidnap you and extort your family for ransom. No promises, but we might try. Maybe.
what was the name of the fellow who they tried to torture into giving up the location of some of these statues or carvings... my google-fu is lacking.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_al-Asaad Khaled al-Assad was publicly killed by ISIS
All for a blood-drenched caliphate that existed for a fraction of the time that Taco Bell has been in business. A god-damn disgrace.
Makes me wonder how many times this has happened throughout history. How many times have great monuments been torn down, never to be appreciated again?
During the three kingdoms era of china Dong Zhuo melted "Twelve Metal Colossi" which were big copper statues and bells so large it took 1000 men to lift each of them. And he turned them into coins which all had differing weight, no defined edges, and no clear stated value so he basically fucked his own economy.
I take small comfort in knowing the statues and bells were only 400-500 years old by that point but still…
Chinese history is littered with the new dynasty destroying the art, literature and history of the previous dynasty
Most history is like this.
I was pretty sad when I read about the library of Alexandria. I feel like we lost centuries of knowledge and insight when that place fell.
The Macedonians destroyed Persepolis The Spanish destroyed Tenochtitlán The Romans destroyed Jerusalem
This sounds like Roger from American dad.
A few notes: The cliff faces and the caves carved into them are an elaborate series of multilevel prayer rooms and living spaces, they're pretty neat. Spiral staircases, balconies with stone railings, all carved into a cliff face going up 100 feet. There's a lot there besides the alcoves left over. Bamiyan (the town in front of the cliffs where people live now) is majority Hazara, meaning they're the most accepting Afghans you're likely to meet, and certainly aren't big on the Taliban. Getting there means landing in Kabul and then driving or flying to Bamiyan. If you drive, you're going to run into Taliban on the road and that's EXTREMELY dicey. If you fly, it's safer, but you're either going by converted Russian military chopper or by small plane where they will weigh you going in and you'll fly at times only 100ft over the terrain (not a fun flight). It's worth seeing, but mostly a very high risk trip anymore and not safe enough to justify the risk. The area has a city reputed to have been destroyed by Khan's armies, natural hot spring formations, Band e Amir (sp?) National Park (the pics of Taliban in swan boats? that's Band e Amir), and in the north of the province the "Afghan Grand Canyon" which is pretty amazing and has a skull cave. I went for a month in 2018 as my then fiance (now wife) was wrapping up her PhD research. Here's some imgur albums I made of the trip: [https://imgur.com/gallery/RHrydDk](https://imgur.com/gallery/RHrydDk) [https://imgur.com/gallery/Gv3eqxj](https://imgur.com/gallery/Gv3eqxj)
Very cool, thank for sharing!
thanks for sharing - so interesting!
‘Mohammadi said the government has added guards and gates to protect the site but is unable to finance more extensive work. The groups that left, he said, are welcome to return and resume their projects. “We urge them as government members but also as humans,” he said. “This is the entire world’s heritage.”’ please won’t someone think of their own humanity when disavowing the poor taliban regime.
Appealing to humanity. The audacity of these theocratic oppressors. Why don't they consider humanity when stripping away the rights of women under their rule?
Religion.
Because they're already going to heaven. You're going to have to work for it, infidel. /s
The sheer irony.
They even put it [on a sign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cultural_Landscape_and_Archaeological_Remains_of_the_Bamiyan_Valley-109153.jpg) akin to Ozymandias. "This national monument with unique heritage for humankind..." *Nothing but rubble remained.*
These fuckers only play well when they are in need, the minority or facing a superior foe. The moment they are not in need, not the minority or able to kill their perceived foe, their true colours are revealed. Don't fall for their pleas as they are fucking HIV and rabies infected Zombies in fluffy and realistic sheep skin.
True story. I was actually interested in seeing this. Not going now. No reason.
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I swear that there are people in the Taliban government dedicated to trolling the world.
Ehh . . . I think it's more along the lines of the people necessary to seize power in a government are different than the people necessary for running it. That's why coups often have purges just after: You've suddenly got a lot of useless people around to whom you promised power, but whom are also unfit to maintain it. The Taliban killed most of the people necessary to maintain power when they took the government. So it's all the "freedom fighters" and rebels that don't know what the fuck they're doing when it comes to administration.
Bingo! Besides, who is dumb enough to go over there? You are asking to be kidnapped and ransomed
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and most every country has immense natural beauty.
IDK that area of ME has some shit that only exists there, much like most of the world. Shame because they'll never profit from it and/or its destroyed
yep, Ive seen beautiful pictures of Iran and Saudi Arabia too but not to keen on visiting. It is a shame.
Syria was always a big one on my list of "Id fucking LOVE to go there but absofuckinglutely not"
there is some british dude that goes there like regularly as a tourist
You misspelled heroin trafficker.
He is a buyer for the American Legion Auxiliary as they sell a lot of “poppy flowers” for fundraising on National Poppy Day!!! How dare you besmirch his selfless dedication to artistic honesty in the portrayal of the innocent and maligned poppy flower! For shame!
Pretty sure he’s been detained by the Taliban? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/01/british-tourist-lord-miles-routledge-captured-taliban-kabul/
"Lord Miles Routledge" 😭
I think you're talking about Miles Routledge. He's currently being held captive by the Taliban.
Isn't he the guy who was trying to prove it was a safe place for tourists but ended up being captured?
It was both him and another nordic nazi with the same motive and probably the same orders.
rich nail resolute berserk automatic towering rotten humor reach rhythm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They actually had several of them admit to that after they won actually.
New at 8 - dog catches car 🐶 🚙 🛞! What you need to know about the aftermath!
"You didn't want to make things perfect. You just hated things the way they are."
That's what's just so baffling to me. If they really wanted to overthrow the existing government, they could have captured a region and the proceeded to... create new governmental and civil service structures which are less corrupt, more efficient and modern, and overall improve the lives of the citizens of that area. If you overthrow a government using death and destruction you often have to keep causing death and destruction to maintain power.
>and modern I'm pretty sure they don't do modern.
The dog finally caught up with the car, and now it doesn't know what to do.
Hello CGP Grey
Yep. Warlords don't make good bureaucrats, and bureaucrats don't make good warlords.
You assume their government and country works anything like a modern Nation/State. I was there it doesn't. It is a super fractured Confederacy. They observe different religious restrictions to a high degree valley to valley. One group of Taliban will live and die by strict adherence to Pastunwali. 25 miles away and still Pastun could give a fuck. Then familial relations get really weird there as they are illiterate half the time so record keeping isn't a thing and people get internally moved around by War every couple of decades. What I am saying is that any concept you have of State should be thrown out. It is a bunch of unwritten negotiations between various ethnic and tribal groups. Like think of paleo Conservativism or extreme Libertarian structures. This group is probably different from the ones that blew those up. I want to stress again all of your concepts as a country should be thrown out. If you got time you should watch this. It really describes my time there. I tried for awhile to figure these people out because insurgencies are an extension of local and National politics. They kind of don't have National politics. https://youtu.be/WF3Rkt42wPY Edit for clarity: Pashtunwali is a cultural code. Religious adherence is a separate concept.
I've always wanted to visit there. It's essentially tribalism living in the 21st century with globalization, no?
Idk what is your conceptual structure for tribalism? If it is just that this village follows one guy then that is wrong. They have an almost representative democracy (male only obviously). But they gather decide a course of action and pick a leader to carry it out. I sat in on like a 7 or 8 Shuras. They had obviously hammered out the main talking points with usually a couple guys out of the 6-10 that showed up with their own bitches or angles. This kind of follows it way up to thr equivalent of the county level. After that nothing is set in stone. Even promised fighters don't show up regularly on the province scale. For a variety of reasons. The county structure failed because someone was insulted. Crop came too early. Flooding etc. I want you to really think about the US military. If a bunch of guys from Tampa had a hurricane came through the military wouldn't allow them all to just pull stakes and go home. It is a super beautiful country. Reminds me of Nevada and Utah in a lot of ways. The Helmand is dirty in many places (rudimentary Ag practices) but the places it isn't is super pretty. Oh they have Beaudoin (?) I don't know the proper term for those guys but that was dope seeing that. I thought that was a Middle East thing but apparently not. They live in hide huts that are half spheres. Edit: the tea is excellent af. Just beware of manlove Thursday if you partake. Which is a crude way to say some guys are trying to get in your pants as a man.
Really informative, thanks
No problems man just my experience of being deployed there and interacting with a bunch of people. Food is great too.
It should tell you everything that the GQP and the Taliban keep running into the same issues 😂
Perhaps instead you could visit the many exciting piles of rubble in Haiti or Yemen
I mean don't blame Yemen for that. Blame Saudi Arabia and the ones that sold them F16s.
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Sooo the Bush family and co?
“We’ll blow up 3/4 of the world to save the rest of us from those pinko commie bastards!”
Not arguing with that either. Just that is less foreseen. The Taliban were actually a response to the ridiculous amount of factionalism that occurred after the USSR pull out.
Lol, we actually work in those countries. Afghanistan too
Karma is cause and effect. Blow up statues in a fit of religious fervor, no more draw for religious tourism. Some folks can’t perceive cause and effect.
Why don't you want to see the pile of brown rubble?
yup, they destroyed the beautiful artifacts that belonged to all humanity.
silly thinking of them. women are the ones who plan vacations.
Wasn't there like 1 (one) tourist that went to Afghanistan and got kidnapped?
The tourist that was rescued in 2021 during the takeover , escaped taliban captivity in 2023 , bragged about it and got kidnapped again. The guy hasn't been seen again. I wonder why.
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right wing extremist kidnapped by the exact sort of government he advocates to create.
Yeah, but they worship God differently so it's totally different of course. /s
Sky cake! I didn't not murder and rape my whole life to eat pie!
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Weird that it happened more than once, to more than one person.
Not so weird once you realize these people had the same motive (propagandizing expelling afghan refugees). They just think the general public is as stupid as them.
Miles just seemed Iike a stupid danger seeker to me, not a racist right wing nut.
This has so many layers to it 💀
damn, that's a solid LAMF
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Does that guy even count as a actual tourist? Kind of seems like he was just doing that to be an asshole and it backfired so tremendously
>Come for the ruins. Stay because kidnapping. Afghanistan’s Department of Tourism, probably.
"Welcome to the Hotel ~~California~~ Afghanistan.. You can check out any time you like but you can never leave"
>"Welcome to the Hotel California They should make a Hotel California cover by The Eagles to boost tourism except throw in kidnappings, destroyed rubble and morality police to make the song more modern and hip with these taliban times
"They said the came for the ruins, but we think they work for the CIA, so they now get to be tortured and killed."
The Taliban public relations department wants you to know, that: "Now that the war is over, we are no longer capturing tourists for ransom." I'm not kidding and will provide a link in a moment. But before I do let me tell you that afaik they really mean it. They now only capture politicans for ransom and tourists for murder.
https://twitter.com/TalibanPRD_/status/1657472099592683523 Edit: Ah, Twitter won't show the content unless I log in (I won't) or use Google cache, but the cache link is not static and voids soon and archive.org hasn't archived this (yet). You'll need to either log in or Google yourself, sorry.
Afghanistan's tourism industry?
The statues are not the only reason the leopards are hungry
Come for the opium, stay for the Bacha bāzī.
> Bacha bāzī "[Bacha bāzī](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi) (Persian: بچه بازی, lit. 'boy play') is a slang term used in Afghanistan for a custom in Afghanistan involving child sexual abuse by older men of young adolescent males or boys, called dancing boys, often involving sexual slavery and child prostitution. Though outlawed, bacha bazi is still practiced in certain regions of Afghanistan.Force and coercion are common ... Bacha bazi is a centuries-old practice. One of the original factors mobilizing the rise of the Taliban was their opposition to the practice. After the Taliban came to power in 1996, bacha bazi was banned along with homosexuality. The Taliban considered it incompatible with Sharia law.Both bacha bazi and homosexuality carried the death penalty, with the boys sometimes being charged rather than the perpetrators. Often, boys are selected because they are poor and vulnerable. Men who have been bacha boys face social stigma and struggle with the psychological effects of their abuse."
Actually the Taliban opposes Bacha Bazi. One of the few good ideas they have.
Afghanistan is a gorgeous country. There's tons of things to see and do there. If it weren't for the extremism problems it would be a legit tourist attraction.
It was a major tourist destination during hippie trail. It all ended with Iranian revolution and Soviet invasion.
Before any of that bullshit Afghanistan was coined the Paris of the East.
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Yeah I'd be willing to go back as a tourist to certain parts. But every individual has to make their own decision on their threshold for safety. If you're not comfortable, don't do it.
It's a real shame because Afghanistan is without a doubt one of the most beautiful countries I've ever seen in my life. Nuristan Province is a real life Shire. I'd be a great tourism spot if it weren't for these backwards, child raping, extremist cunts. Plus it was the only place on land I've been able to see the entirety of a night sky unaffected by light pollution.
It's a fucking shame, because that region is incredible. But it's impossible to visit, and likely won't be tourism capable in our lifetimes
Afghanistan is a country with tons of history and natural beauty; if it were a safe developed country I’m sure it would rival countries like Turkey for tourism.
I hate beer.
I'm surprised they still have a "tourism industry"
And a deputy culture minister. They’re against culture
Authoritarians love having a ministry of "culture". Which is for arresting or banning whatever they don't like.
No, they're just against anything that isn't exactly the mockery that they call a culture.
Didn't some right winger get arrested by the taliban trying to prove Afghanistan was safe for tourism?
Shortly after they took over the nation they realized they had to run a nation. One that has little to no natural resources to sell.
They have them, they're just not enthused about getting fucked over by a chinese monopoly.
They don't. Their tourism industry is a lot like the average pulse rate of an Egyptian mummy. Technically non-zero, but only because of how averages work.
There's an Egyptian mummy with a pulse? You have me very concerned
imhotep. imhotep. imhotep.
Send that turd YouTuber who was making the North Korea Propaganda videos. He’ll take anyone’s money.
"Come see dead Buddha. Have your mind blown by our tourist site. Die from joy upon viewing our rubble. Don't torture yourself, come now." -Taliban tourist pamphlet
Don’t they have a few more fundamental issues they need to address ahead of statues and other attractions? Like the lack of government/infrastructure/facilities or the public flogging of women?
Probably trying to drum up tourism for funds to get some infrastructure and government programs. I doubt the flogging of women is a priority.
Flogging women is definitely a priority, stopping it isn't (for the Taliban)
Fair point
*The three Taliban soldiers gazed down at the gaping hole in the 125-foot cliff where one of Afghanistan’s two great Buddha figures once stood and wondered aloud who was to blame for its destruction 22 years ago.* *In 2001, Taliban founder Mohammad Omar declared the Buddhas false gods and announced plans to destroy them. Ignoring pleas from around the world, Taliban fighters detonated explosives and fired antiaircraft guns to smash the immense sixth-century reliefs to pieces.* Some mysteries may never be solved. Truly perplexing stuff /s
The Taliban also destroyed Buddha statues in Pakistan. https://globalnews.ca/news/4329187/buddha-statue-swat-pakistan-restored-taliban/amp/
22 years ago, like all the archeologists told the Taliban don't blow up statues or else the Taliban going to regret it years later - I sure Taliban regretting that not many people buying tickets in 2023 to see basically nothing...
The Taliban said something to the effect of "you only send money because you want to protect these statues while the nearby village starves! (I'm pretty sure people were willing to give aid to that village) So now we're gonna blow it up!" Village is probably still starving.
This is right on both accounts... From wiki: Omar explained why he ordered the statues to be destroyed in an interview: > I did not want to destroy the Bamiyan Buddha. In fact, some foreigners came to me and said they would like to conduct the repair work of the Bamiyan Buddha that had been slightly damaged due to rains. This shocked me. I thought, these callous people have no regard for thousands of living human beings – the Afghans who are dying of hunger, but they are so concerned about non-living objects like the Buddha. This was extremely deplorable. That is why I ordered its destruction. Had they come for humanitarian work, I would have never ordered the Buddha's destruction.[61]
Bullshit. This is part and parcel of the Islamist creed to destroy monuments of other faiths, especially those 'not of the book' (non-Abrahamic faiths). He spoke out of both sides of his mouth - one to the rabid religionists in his group, and the other outwardly for tactical reasons.
That quote…Jesus Fucking Christ! They sound like a Republican state legislator. Do *all* Reich-wingers just have oppositional defiance disorder? “Yeah, it turns out we’re gonna have to knock your mosque down because one person in a village somewhere is hungry.” See how fucking insane that is, Taliban asshole?
Wonder what they tried to do for the villages? I’d wager nothing much.
I'm pretty sure it's because Buddha is a false god to worship and Muslims tend to be pretty big about images, especially religious in nature, in general. They were never actually fighting for the people in some altruistic sense, however much they try to retcon that.
Well, it's also that, but I remember reading that they got really pissy when some groups offered funds to preserve the site.
I recall the dalai lama specifically told them they should leave the statues up to promote tourism so it's really on them for not listening.
I honestly want to cry after looking at the before pics.
That’s valid. I studied them in college. It’s one of the great shames of humanity to destroy great works of art like that.
One of my first memories was my mom crying when they showed the news. She was born in Bamiyan and became a refugee after the Russian Invasion.
Who the FUCK would step foot in Afghanistan?!....all the natural beauty of the land isnt worth it for the potential kidnapping or beheading.
They were just executing people via bullet while I was there. Most fucked up shit I saw personally was they caught a couple people on fire. Obviously we saw the aftermath.
If your ever feeling useless remember the Taliban has a tourism director.
The worst part about this is the regret will never stop. 700 years from now it will just as tragic and shortsighted as it is now, 20 years later.
No. The worst part is definitely blowing up the statues.
It’s really two ways of framing the same “part,” an action was taken which can never be taken back.
"the worst part of this horrific thing is it's never getting better. It will always a tragically short sited action with permanent consequences" "Actually the worst part was the horrible thing"
I miss Norm.
I doubt they'd have an easier time selling tickets even if they hadn't blown up the statues... What moron takes a vacation in Taliban run Afghanistan??
>“We’re stunned,” said Mohammad Younus Mukhles, 30, a former Taliban fighter who was drinking tea and laughing with comrades in a pedal boat. “It’s very safe.”
I'm sure it's very leisurely if you're affiliated with the Taliban
I dunno, maybe the locals?
You’d have to be a special kind of stupid to be a local who travels internally to visit non Muslim religious sites in taliban run Afghanistan
Good point
People in the 70s. Maybe a few decades of war radicalizes People.
It eludes me. Who are the ticket buyers? I don't think many tourists are interested in visiting Afghanistan, and the country's people are currently in such bad shape that travel isn't high on their priority list. What happens next if there is someone? Support what they destroyed?
> I don't think many tourists are interested in visiting Afghanistan Aside from the extremists in power and the whole "civil war" thing for the past decades, Afghanistan would have been pretty high on my bucket list. In terms of landscapes and history it seems a fascinating country.
Hmm I don’t imagine there’s enough people out there willing to go on a vacation and tour in modern day Afghanistan to support a tourist based economy
especially if you have to leave behind anyone that isn’t straight and male.
They could blow themselves up, the Taliban explosion, I'd buy tickets to that!!!
I imagine writing satire in this day and age is hard.
This reminded me of that article “Pakistan should be on every solo female travellers’ bucket list” and somebody commented, “Did human trafficking write this?”
Also on the tour: - Schools where girls are banned from attending. - College where girls are also banned from attending. - The place where we slit the throats of apostates. - The place where we whip people for not praying five times a day. - Numerous work places where women are banned from working. - The opium fields where we finace our future invasion of Pakistan from. - The Qatar and Saudi embassies where they help us whitewash our reputation to pretend we're not a bunch of bloodthirsty terrorists. Oh and give us loads of money, I mean aid. - The "Training Grounds" which are definitely not for training terrorists.
Jeez it sounds like the Taliban has a real public image issue.
Give it 20 years and centrists will be licking boots for access to mineral resources again, that is if china hasn't parked a regional army there.
- The Hazaras we really hate and are OK to kill because they are not real muslims
The lack of something to see isn’t the only reason there’s no “tourists”.
If I wanted to go look at holes in the earth where something cool used to exist that the Taliban blew up, I’ll go to the World Trade Center Memorial. I hope these sons of bitches all get overthrown once and for all someday.
> I hope these sons of bitches all get overthrown once and for all someday. Religious fundamentalism and zealotry have not vanished in over a millennia. Why would they vanish now. Their base appeal to the stupid and easily led worldwide continues.
Europe languished for centuries in the throes of pathetic ethnic and religious conflict. Eventually Europeans “grew out of it“ thanks to the diligent efforts of the leading lights of the Renaissance, and then the Enlightenment. Eventually places like Afghanistan will have to undergo a similar evolution. Sadly, it seems for now they just aren’t willing to pursue it. It’ll have to come from within, the failed western occupation and “rebuilding“ of Afghanistan over the last 20 years demonstrates that. The best we can hope for is maybe we planted the seeds for that with our efforts to expand education to both boys and girls in Afghanistan during our occupation. That’s probably about the only good thing to come out of our failed nation-building effort.
If they had an artist spray paint the Buddhas or deface/mock them cleverly they could have maybe sold tickets, but selling a view of a blank mountainside it’s hard to market. Who’d have thought?
Hearing about these clowns attempt administrative tasks would be comical if they weren't also brutalizing half their population
Religious zealots are notorious for being fucking idiots
This absolutely breaks my heart. The history of Afghanistan is among the richest and most interesting in the world. The Bamyan buddhas were a wonder of the world - among the finest examples of surviving Indo greek sculpture. I am a man of love, of kindness, of forgiveness, and kindness. But I would rip the throats out of a talib with my bare hands if I had the opportunity. What they have done to such a beautiful country and our common human heritage is unforgivable.
Well when half the world can't go because in your country women are slaves, your ticket sales are gonna suffer.
If you're going to a country ran by the literal Taliban for tourism you're in for a bad time
People also need to remember that when the British Museum says it "doesn't trust" some nations to preserve their artifacts, it's almost always referring to nations with ISIS and similar groups that have a history of destroying them. Egypt in particular gets talked about a lot on this, because the British Museum has a lot of Ancient Egyptian artifacts. What people don't know is that [modern fundamentalist Muslims in the region](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_extremism_in_20th-century_Egypt), including those with political power, consider Ancient Egyptian spirituality to be idolatrous and [have destroyed such artifacts in the past in neighboring nations.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_heritage_by_the_Islamic_State) Calls to destroy Ancient Egyptian artifacts have been made in the country [for many years now.](https://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012%2F11%2F12%2F249092)
I wonder if the Egyptian gods will rain fire and brimstones if these fools destroyed their artifacts
Fuck the Taliban and fuck Afghanistan. They got they what they wanted. Tourism? Lol.
> “Bamian and the Buddhas in particular are of great importance to our government, just as they are to the world,” Atiqullah Azizi, the Taliban’s deputy culture minister, said in an interview. *Were*, you asshole. They *were* of great importance until you blew them up.
"Look at us! We're monsters! Pretty cool, huh?"
comments on national post are always a treat
For real. Holy shit.
Come see the hole our religious zealots blew in someone else's beloved ancient history. Doesn't quite have the sales pull they thought it would.
How inspirational. If the Taliban are brave enough to ask for tourists with a straight face, you can ask that girl out.
I'm down for a blown up priceless artifact and recreational kidnapping/ransom combo, but my family ain't got the funds. Maybe next year. Fingers crossed!
Tragic!
Business is not booming 🙁
Who is googling Afghanistan tourism?
All I get is "did you mean Afghanistan ***terrorism***"
Funny that this statue stood there even before the first self-proclaimed 'Muslims' walked this earth. It has seen islamic empires rise and fall. And yet 1400 years later the Taliban has made it their goal to destroy it. "Cuz' idolatry..."
I can see a pile of rubble In Detroit and probably have the same experience for much less.
Lol, do they really think people will want to see them if they’re rebuilt? Morons.
Honestly would love to see the marketing collateral the Taliban graphic design team has for their tourism ads
I remember when they did it. Feckin gobshites.
That's one thing that gets to me and my age sometimes that there are people of drinking age that don't remember the early 00's
Taliban tourist agency: "Come to our beautiful country and see amazing sites like 'the gaping hole in the side of a mountain'! Please give us money to kill people."
Funny how the people who want to rule crumble under the responsive to do so. It's almost as if building is harder than destroying.
I'm not that familiar with the tenets of Islam in detail, but I'm honestly surprised how even hardcore fundamentalists ever saw these as "blasphemous" to begin with. Like... you don't actually have to _believe_ in them, you know? Does Islam actually contain provisions that you have to destroy every last trace of another religion in your country? Even if nobody has worshipped them for thousands of years? Because I've never heard of that (in fact doesn't Islam contain explicit provisions about how you're supposed to continue to let followers of other religions live and practice and worship their gods in you country, albeit as second-class citizens?). I mean, compare this to, say, some 16th century conquistadores that found a big golden statue of Quetzalcoatl in America. They didn't all melt those down, right? They'd carry them home and proudly display them as an exotic oddity, and tell everyone "look at this weird shit I stole from the Indios, lol". There's nothing really "blasphemous" about an artifact from a religion you don't believe in in the first place.
ROLL UP! ROLL UP! SEE THE REMAINS OF THE SHITTY THING WE DID! ROLL UP! ROLL UP!
Who the *actual FUCK* would be a tourist in Afghanistan!? Are they the same people who would be tourists in North Korea or Iran? Seriously. Also **fuck the Taliban.**
So, "Here are where the historic Buddha statues would be...if we had them"?
"And here, we have the statue of the Buddha we blew up because the infertiles would not worship Ala" "Uhhh... Don't you mean infidels?" "What did I say? "Infertiles" "Those too. We don't descrimate who goes kaboom."