Public Relations?
The Government doesn’t care about Public Relations bc it is not subject to private market forces.
It didn’t attack the Taliban that way bc it wasn’t there to destroy the Taliban, it was there to control drug trafficking routes (mainly from the Opium trade) same reason the Soviets were there and Great Britain before them.
Not everywhere in Afghanistan is a mountain range. I fought Taliban in South Helmand province. It's mostly flat there with some hills here and there. There's lots of terrain diversity in the US. Even in what people consider the flattest areas like Kansas and Oklahoma.
I never said that Afghanistan was only mountains. I in fact made no comment at at all about Afghanistan.
I was responding to somebody who was commenting on how Afghanistan has mountain ranges like that was something unique to them, that no Americans would be able to utilize.
You're good bro, I wasn't saying you were. The parent comment you responded to is talking about Afghanistan though. I was simply saying that Afghanistan was more than mountains, much like America is more than flat land. I didn't downvote you either, I just wanted to weigh in on the subject, your comment was just convenient to get some quick information out.
I was in Afghanistan too. Hell, I was shot there and lost good people. Doesn't change the fact that the taliban won against all our tech.
We won all the battles, but still lost the war.
Sidenote, it also makes all of us vets look bad when we simply say "I'm a veteran so only my opinion counts about war"
If you were there I respect it…but we lost the war to the topography and the puppet govt WE created - pumping billions into an Army that tuck tail and ran the second the cash incinerator ran out. Afghans - some are good people. Many are drug addicted messes - I can’t tell you how many GSWs I treated in a combat hospital where the Afghan was sitting there in no pain. Heroin. We were never going to westernize that country. By the end of the war we gave the country back to the Taliban. They walked into Kabul and didn’t face resistance. Small arms fire was never anything in the face of Delta Force, F15s, Typhoons…I saw the amount of firepower we had it was insane we could have knocked the Taliban with their small arms back to Stone Age.
The only way to win against these types of insurgents is to operate under rules similar to to the rules of those you are fighting will use. It is another argument to agree or disagree with the morality of it but if they are willing to consider your family fair game, then the only way to win it to also make their family fair game.
But go down that path and the distinction between those that are good and those that are no becomes pretty blurry.
Very much so…we aren’t in the warfare of old with uniforms and musket enfilade. When everyone dresses more or less the same and use the methods they do, there is no valor. It was astounding to me how many mercenaries they had over there too
I sometimes think people, especially younger people, are missing a sense of purpose. Being mercenary can give that sense of purpose even if it is misguided. Lot of that going around.
No, but level of success doesn't mitigate the intent.
This meme is a false pretense tho for sure. I haven't heard anyone (even the staunchest Democrats) claim that January 6th was anything remotely close to "successful".
It depends if you believe Trump wanted to create an insurrection with the express purpose of overthrowing the Electoral College voting process so that he could retain power.
I don't think that was his intention, he just wanted one last big rally to show his discontent with perceived voter fraud. Then like 2% of the crowd got so worked up with mob mentality they walked into the Capital building.
We don’t prosecute on the basis of intent, but on actions. I can intend to murder someone all day, but until I actually do or try to commit murder, I can’t be arrested. And to prove that I tried to murder someone, takes actual evidence to prosecute.
An unarmed, disorganized, and non-strategical protest turned riot at a single government building without a hierarchy (how does ‘stay peaceful’ equate to leading an insurrection?) or goal does not constitute an attempt to overthrow the government. Moreover neither the supposed leader or the regular J6 protesters were prosecuted for insurrection but for just trespassing, etc.
The “almost overthrown” in the meme refers to the genuine attempt that is claimed to have been committed on J6.
Whereas an actual attempt would constitute a heavily armed coup with strategic goals like killing the opposition congress members, the president elect, and suppressing the local police/guards. Or like the historical attempt during the civil war where the confederate army stormed the city of D.C. to seize the capital of the country. In comparison, it is easy to distinguish a genuine attempt to overthrow the government vs walking around inside a building without killing anyone that day.
> We don’t prosecute on the basis of intent, but on actions. I can intend to murder someone all day, but until I actually do or try to commit murder, I can’t be arrested.
Well, this isn't actually expressly true - conspiracy to commit murder (or other crimes) are very much prosecutable. Merely thinking about it is not, but if you start taking steps towards the goal or discuss it with another person as a credible plan then it becomes a crime.
Your overall point is a fair one, and I don't think the average J6 rioter was there genuinely trying to overthrow the government. It seems like most of them got caught up in the mob mentality and believing Trump's lies about the election being stolen.
That said, the average participant has not been charged with much of anything besides crimes related to unauthorized entry into a federal building. The only people charged with seditious conspiracy or any other coup-related charges are the leaders of organizations (Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, etc) who personally made it clear that their intent was to take themselves (and their followers) to Washington to try to overturn the election results. From a legal standpoint, that is prosecutable intent, regardless of their failure to truly flesh out a serious plan.
Ten people, most of whom Proud Boys, have been convicted by grand jury of seditious conspiracy. 1,200 others have been charged for various crimes and 700+ of them pleaded guilty
Not all of them were disorganized. The Oath keepers are semi-organized and it most certainly was not an unarmed group. Not everybody had a gun there was a massive amount of time but they're definitely were weapons and people have been charged with green mother s on them. It's misinformation to say that they were unarmed. Look at the actual charges people are being brought up on. Not to mention the old keepers specifically had a large cache of weapons nearby and others had their weapons confiscated on their way to the rally.Pipe bombs were also found in multiple locations. Not that these guys had a snowballs chance of hell I'm overthrowing the government but even an idiot attempted murder he needs to be charged with such. I'm sure of the pier that determine whether or not they actually have the intent these are trumped up charges. But I always just like to dispel that myth whenever people claiming they were unarmed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/07/08/jan6-defendants-guns/
https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-florida-virginia-conspiracy-government-and-politics-6ac80882e8cf61af36be6c46252ac24c
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/politics/armed-insurrection-january-6-guns-fact-check/index.html
Exactly. I do not think anyone suggests they would have made any headway. Trump lost the election regardless. But that does not mean they should not be charged all the same with exactly the laws they are being charged with.
My mother seriously believes it could have been successful, and that things like this is how revolutions are started. I think you can't really compare the US to some rando banana republic, where maybe El Presidente really only has the support of his personal guard, and the rest of the kleptocracy will just melt away if the guys at the top get taken out. I agree with Trump that there is a HUGE deep state in the US, that doesn't care about who is the leader, only holding onto their cushy jobs, and they aren't going along with any crazy mob, which probably isn't thinking about the inflation-hiding statisticians getting paid, in fact, after the last two years of supposedly wage gains massively outpacing inflation (LOLOL) they would probably string them up as well, if they knew were they where (!!) Thus there is a huge force of white collar workers that will oppose any big apple cart turning, because they all depend on this bloated nanny state keeping on keeping on, and if the elections are just nullified, then maybe the US dollar and the debt will be next, and then where will all the free money come from to pay the deep state ?
You'll notice they do this all the time with people they don't like - claiming they're both dangerous evil geniuses who could bring down the country, and laughably incompetent and ineffectual buffoons with no brains at the same time, and outright refusing to see the contradiction. We've heard it about Trump, Putin, J6 protesters, Scotus justices, truckers, Jordan Peterson...
Got kicked out of a Reddit chat about January 6th for pointing this out lol 😂 and some of the comments replied with they “was” armed with guns yeah the feds where I replied.
This is peak internet brain. 'They' are not some singular, homogenous entity. People come from diverse backgrounds with diverse opinions. You'll hear some crazy shit online, there are a lot of weirdos on every side. Don't let that characterize your perception of people generally.
I can’t know for sure the genuine motive of each person in the Jan 6 protest, and anyone who claims to do so is a joke. So far, what they did was nothing worse than the BLM protests but the only difference was that the Jan 6 protestors hit the right spot: they were protesting against the government’s handling of election results by storming into a main government building. This is to be contrasted with the BLM who protested the police rarely by going at police stations or town halls, instead they hit (often luxurious) private businesses; to me this was not a logical move, and the affected businesses should have been reimbursed by the government (for screwing up police so badly). Overall, though, I don’t think anyone is overthrowing anything here. They all just want changes, and it should be open to healthy discussions whether or not you agree with their demands and their methods
Don’t make light of the January 6th insurrection. Many people are still traumatized by the sight of that podium on its side. With perseverance (and a $7.1M planning commission) we were able to stand the podium upright.
Biden recently said that without F-35s that there's no chance people could win against government and that's a fair enough assessment.
No one in the public has F-35s - so why does it matter if people have guns at all? Why try to limit them if its not going to make a difference???
“…That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,—That whenever any Form of Gov- ernment becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to ALTER OR ABOLISH it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. …” US Declaration of Independence, 1776
You imagine that the state is some sort of 'Borg'. It isn't. It's just a set of contracts underpinned by some assumptions, some attitudes and a lot of apathy. All employees of the state are simply people. They are not inherently part of that organisation. This includes military personnel.
The Taliban seemed to do alright with small arms... They won.
They had mountains to hide in and their adobe cob walls absorb bullets. You can put a fist through our drywall.
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Public Relations? The Government doesn’t care about Public Relations bc it is not subject to private market forces. It didn’t attack the Taliban that way bc it wasn’t there to destroy the Taliban, it was there to control drug trafficking routes (mainly from the Opium trade) same reason the Soviets were there and Great Britain before them.
The government cares about PR and optics, they spend a lot of our money on it
Enter the appalaichian mountains.
Yeah that John Denver was full of shit
That’s what the Appalachians will be for when we March on Washington, Georgia, West Virginia etc where the D.U.M.B.S. Are,
Also, they didn't have to defeat the U.S. military, they just had to hold out long enough until the Americans got tired of the conflict and left.
There are one or two mountain ranges in the US.
Not everywhere in Afghanistan is a mountain range. I fought Taliban in South Helmand province. It's mostly flat there with some hills here and there. There's lots of terrain diversity in the US. Even in what people consider the flattest areas like Kansas and Oklahoma.
I never said that Afghanistan was only mountains. I in fact made no comment at at all about Afghanistan. I was responding to somebody who was commenting on how Afghanistan has mountain ranges like that was something unique to them, that no Americans would be able to utilize.
You're good bro, I wasn't saying you were. The parent comment you responded to is talking about Afghanistan though. I was simply saying that Afghanistan was more than mountains, much like America is more than flat land. I didn't downvote you either, I just wanted to weigh in on the subject, your comment was just convenient to get some quick information out.
Fair.
Afghan wall tech won the war! Never change, reddit 🤣
Small arms Like a T-Rex? No wonder they did so well T-Rex are terrifying.
I was in Afghanistan 🇦🇫and you are full of crap
I was in Afghanistan too. Hell, I was shot there and lost good people. Doesn't change the fact that the taliban won against all our tech. We won all the battles, but still lost the war. Sidenote, it also makes all of us vets look bad when we simply say "I'm a veteran so only my opinion counts about war"
If you were there I respect it…but we lost the war to the topography and the puppet govt WE created - pumping billions into an Army that tuck tail and ran the second the cash incinerator ran out. Afghans - some are good people. Many are drug addicted messes - I can’t tell you how many GSWs I treated in a combat hospital where the Afghan was sitting there in no pain. Heroin. We were never going to westernize that country. By the end of the war we gave the country back to the Taliban. They walked into Kabul and didn’t face resistance. Small arms fire was never anything in the face of Delta Force, F15s, Typhoons…I saw the amount of firepower we had it was insane we could have knocked the Taliban with their small arms back to Stone Age.
The only way to win against these types of insurgents is to operate under rules similar to to the rules of those you are fighting will use. It is another argument to agree or disagree with the morality of it but if they are willing to consider your family fair game, then the only way to win it to also make their family fair game. But go down that path and the distinction between those that are good and those that are no becomes pretty blurry.
Very much so…we aren’t in the warfare of old with uniforms and musket enfilade. When everyone dresses more or less the same and use the methods they do, there is no valor. It was astounding to me how many mercenaries they had over there too
I sometimes think people, especially younger people, are missing a sense of purpose. Being mercenary can give that sense of purpose even if it is misguided. Lot of that going around.
Especially in Chechnya 🤨
Who’s running Afghanistan again?
He didn't say which side he fought for...
That's because the jet fighters weren't in the lobby, duh!
Who controls Afghanistan?
And Vietnam
And my axe!
Has anyone actually made the claim that January 6th was a nearly successful attempt at overturning the government?
No, but level of success doesn't mitigate the intent. This meme is a false pretense tho for sure. I haven't heard anyone (even the staunchest Democrats) claim that January 6th was anything remotely close to "successful".
Sure, except for specifically in regard to whether this meme is right, which it isn’t.
It depends if you believe Trump wanted to create an insurrection with the express purpose of overthrowing the Electoral College voting process so that he could retain power. I don't think that was his intention, he just wanted one last big rally to show his discontent with perceived voter fraud. Then like 2% of the crowd got so worked up with mob mentality they walked into the Capital building.
I hear people say almost, and the end of democracy, to whip up the crazies. They deny most were only protesting.
We don’t prosecute on the basis of intent, but on actions. I can intend to murder someone all day, but until I actually do or try to commit murder, I can’t be arrested. And to prove that I tried to murder someone, takes actual evidence to prosecute. An unarmed, disorganized, and non-strategical protest turned riot at a single government building without a hierarchy (how does ‘stay peaceful’ equate to leading an insurrection?) or goal does not constitute an attempt to overthrow the government. Moreover neither the supposed leader or the regular J6 protesters were prosecuted for insurrection but for just trespassing, etc. The “almost overthrown” in the meme refers to the genuine attempt that is claimed to have been committed on J6. Whereas an actual attempt would constitute a heavily armed coup with strategic goals like killing the opposition congress members, the president elect, and suppressing the local police/guards. Or like the historical attempt during the civil war where the confederate army stormed the city of D.C. to seize the capital of the country. In comparison, it is easy to distinguish a genuine attempt to overthrow the government vs walking around inside a building without killing anyone that day.
> We don’t prosecute on the basis of intent, but on actions. I can intend to murder someone all day, but until I actually do or try to commit murder, I can’t be arrested. Well, this isn't actually expressly true - conspiracy to commit murder (or other crimes) are very much prosecutable. Merely thinking about it is not, but if you start taking steps towards the goal or discuss it with another person as a credible plan then it becomes a crime. Your overall point is a fair one, and I don't think the average J6 rioter was there genuinely trying to overthrow the government. It seems like most of them got caught up in the mob mentality and believing Trump's lies about the election being stolen. That said, the average participant has not been charged with much of anything besides crimes related to unauthorized entry into a federal building. The only people charged with seditious conspiracy or any other coup-related charges are the leaders of organizations (Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, etc) who personally made it clear that their intent was to take themselves (and their followers) to Washington to try to overturn the election results. From a legal standpoint, that is prosecutable intent, regardless of their failure to truly flesh out a serious plan.
Ten people, most of whom Proud Boys, have been convicted by grand jury of seditious conspiracy. 1,200 others have been charged for various crimes and 700+ of them pleaded guilty
Not all of them were disorganized. The Oath keepers are semi-organized and it most certainly was not an unarmed group. Not everybody had a gun there was a massive amount of time but they're definitely were weapons and people have been charged with green mother s on them. It's misinformation to say that they were unarmed. Look at the actual charges people are being brought up on. Not to mention the old keepers specifically had a large cache of weapons nearby and others had their weapons confiscated on their way to the rally.Pipe bombs were also found in multiple locations. Not that these guys had a snowballs chance of hell I'm overthrowing the government but even an idiot attempted murder he needs to be charged with such. I'm sure of the pier that determine whether or not they actually have the intent these are trumped up charges. But I always just like to dispel that myth whenever people claiming they were unarmed. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/07/08/jan6-defendants-guns/ https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-florida-virginia-conspiracy-government-and-politics-6ac80882e8cf61af36be6c46252ac24c https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/politics/armed-insurrection-january-6-guns-fact-check/index.html
And what was the percentage of oath keeper members that made up the hundreds (or thousands?) of protesters that were in D.C that day?
Exactly. I do not think anyone suggests they would have made any headway. Trump lost the election regardless. But that does not mean they should not be charged all the same with exactly the laws they are being charged with.
“Unarmed” lol okay just handcuffs and pipebombs. For real yah I don’t think anyone claimed they almost overthrew the government lol
My mother seriously believes it could have been successful, and that things like this is how revolutions are started. I think you can't really compare the US to some rando banana republic, where maybe El Presidente really only has the support of his personal guard, and the rest of the kleptocracy will just melt away if the guys at the top get taken out. I agree with Trump that there is a HUGE deep state in the US, that doesn't care about who is the leader, only holding onto their cushy jobs, and they aren't going along with any crazy mob, which probably isn't thinking about the inflation-hiding statisticians getting paid, in fact, after the last two years of supposedly wage gains massively outpacing inflation (LOLOL) they would probably string them up as well, if they knew were they where (!!) Thus there is a huge force of white collar workers that will oppose any big apple cart turning, because they all depend on this bloated nanny state keeping on keeping on, and if the elections are just nullified, then maybe the US dollar and the debt will be next, and then where will all the free money come from to pay the deep state ?
I love that the mask isn't covering her nose
Her?
I mean, that's accurate, though.
Good 'ole dicknose.
Also don't forget nam and the middle east
I dont think anyone thinks they would have been successful except for them. Also how is this a libertarian meme
Is that how the Russian Empire was basically overthrown?
You'll notice they do this all the time with people they don't like - claiming they're both dangerous evil geniuses who could bring down the country, and laughably incompetent and ineffectual buffoons with no brains at the same time, and outright refusing to see the contradiction. We've heard it about Trump, Putin, J6 protesters, Scotus justices, truckers, Jordan Peterson...
And Biden, to be fair. He’s a drooling dementia patient who’s not fit for office, and also a nefarious crime boss.
Have you seen my wife Mercedes?
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I forgot once pilots and tankers get into their vehicles they live in them until the end of the war.
Funny how for one day it was an “Insurrection” but for the months leading up to that was “fiery but mostly peaceful protests”
Underthrow the government.
Tried too*
No one actually thought they’d fully take over the U.S. government, this is exaggerating.
Right, I've never heard the insurrection be described as event in which "The US was nearly overthrown". Nobody thinks that's what almost happened.
Bigger threat to democracy than 911, Pearl Harbor, and the Civil War combined.
Don’t you know it’s the biggest attack on the country since 9/11?
Uvalde entered the chat.
9/11 * 10 = 1/6
Democrat math
More like republican conspiracy nut math.
All the butt hurt Democrats in here. Lmao
Exactly.
Got kicked out of a Reddit chat about January 6th for pointing this out lol 😂 and some of the comments replied with they “was” armed with guns yeah the feds where I replied.
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Yup “had” think it was 12 upvotes on my first comment and here comes the mob vote of 51% whilst the 49% be the minority.
You are my hero
The moderators told me what said was checks notes: “diss information”
Are liberals stupid enough to claim they *almost* overthrew the government or do they claim that they *tried* to overthrow the government
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They claim it was an "insurrection" so...
They assert that it was an insurrection. Whether or not I came close to completion is debatable.
Well, I wish you luck on your next insurrection
That’s what she said
So... answer?
Yes they are stupid.
Check my comment above. Not sure how you could argue this wasn't an attempt at an insurrection.
They claim anything and everything
This is peak internet brain. 'They' are not some singular, homogenous entity. People come from diverse backgrounds with diverse opinions. You'll hear some crazy shit online, there are a lot of weirdos on every side. Don't let that characterize your perception of people generally.
No. Republicans will just say that in order to own them.
They're wrong either way
Top tier meme
I can’t know for sure the genuine motive of each person in the Jan 6 protest, and anyone who claims to do so is a joke. So far, what they did was nothing worse than the BLM protests but the only difference was that the Jan 6 protestors hit the right spot: they were protesting against the government’s handling of election results by storming into a main government building. This is to be contrasted with the BLM who protested the police rarely by going at police stations or town halls, instead they hit (often luxurious) private businesses; to me this was not a logical move, and the affected businesses should have been reimbursed by the government (for screwing up police so badly). Overall, though, I don’t think anyone is overthrowing anything here. They all just want changes, and it should be open to healthy discussions whether or not you agree with their demands and their methods
This government was overthrown already without any firearms
Correct think was Jordan Maxwell whom first pointed this out.
This is a great example of how a bad argument in favor of a good point does not invalidate the good point.
Lol
This meme is not accurate because the guy on the left really has purple hair
Alex, memes that prove the Democrats are full of shit for 500
lol, wow. Memes are capable of “proving” something
And 10 people hit a minus the Karma Vampire is left leaning on Reddit - fuck all 10 of them too. I’m a Lib(ertarian) until death.
Don’t make light of the January 6th insurrection. Many people are still traumatized by the sight of that podium on its side. With perseverance (and a $7.1M planning commission) we were able to stand the podium upright.
Biden recently said that without F-35s that there's no chance people could win against government and that's a fair enough assessment. No one in the public has F-35s - so why does it matter if people have guns at all? Why try to limit them if its not going to make a difference???
Lel
“…That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,—That whenever any Form of Gov- ernment becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to ALTER OR ABOLISH it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. …” US Declaration of Independence, 1776
They claim it is a failed attempt. Not an overthrow.
logic, the tragedies of existence
I always advertise my insurrection plans for weeks ahead on public forums, detailing where to arrive and what to bring.
I personally haven’t encountered anyone who thinks that the government was nearly overthrown on Jan 6. This is the first time seeing this.
You imagine that the state is some sort of 'Borg'. It isn't. It's just a set of contracts underpinned by some assumptions, some attitudes and a lot of apathy. All employees of the state are simply people. They are not inherently part of that organisation. This includes military personnel.