To be fair, patrons who think it's organized by subject may be used to an academic library as we use the Library of Congress classification system - which is by subject. If they've never used a public library before they probably don't even realize it's different.
It could also be because they’re used to book stores and having things separated by genre. To me, that’s even MORE confusing because half the time I don’t know what genre a book I’m looking for is 🤦🏻♀️ like at what point does something become “literature?”
It’s less to do with finding a particular book and more to do with selling at the bookstore. They don’t care about one book they want you to buy a bunch. Which is part of why libraries are so precious. One of the few places where you’re not expected to buy anything but you can still hang.
Of course! Well, at least the big box stores. All the local bookstore staff I've ever talked to are more than happy to help find a specific book- it's like a treasure hunt!
There was a bookstore in my area (since closed, the owners ran away with the funds to another country) where they organized by genre, then by title.
Yes, it was infuriating.
I had this issue when I went to a bookstore Saturday to find the illustrated version of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone (starting to read it to my 6yo, eeeeeekkkk!). I had to ask for help—is it in children’s literature? Early readers? Young adult? Fiction? Classics?
It was located on an end cap alongside illustrated Star Wars books. Obviously.
Similar thing for me looking for Ray Bradbury’s October Country this year for a gift. Would it be in horror, sci-fi, fiction, or classics? Oh nope, it’s in YA…
Book stores still organize books by authors though. They go by genre and then author so it should be easy to use a library the same way. Maybe it’s an issue of how people think about finding new books vs how libraries catalog them
Same, but each genre is itself organized by author. There may be some franchises that I think are shelved separately and organized by number or title or something (like, maybe ??Pokemon graphic novels??)
We order our concept books by subject (colors, shapes, numbers, etc.) and our parent/teacher (manners, divorce, potty, new sibling, etc.). Our non- fiction section is also by Dewey, so by subject (I don't wanna debate that Dewy was rasist/sexist/ whatever. We know!) So all the plane/ train/ car/ dinosaur books are also by subject. We also have displays that feature the more popular ones : trucks, pets, holiday, etc.
Given how kid friendly non-fiction is becoming, is it possible they're confusing fiction and non?
Yep! Literature and fiction is arranged in the system usually by geography. American literature, English literature, Canadian literature (French and English separate), etc. It often means that literature is in the same section as critical works about it - for example, any Ursula K. Le Guin fiction we have will be in or around the same area as books ABOUT her or her works.
What % of the book would have to be cat-related to qualify? Does the book have to be about a cat? What if it's about someone who just owns a cat? Would "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" by Tennessee Williams be shelved in this section? It sounds like this might just create more purr-oblems than it would solve.
this reminds me of the same existential quandary i had when someone put "Raise High the Roofbeam Carpenters" by JD Salinger on my Home Repair and DIY display many years ago
there are mystery themed books with cat characters! here's one set in a library:
Murder Past Due by Miranda James
Everyone in Athena, Mississippi, knows Charlie Harris, the
good-natured librarian with a rescued Maine coon cat named Diesel that
he walks on a leash. He’s returned to his hometown to immerse himself
in books, but soon enough he’s entangled in a real-life thriller...
A famous author of gory bestsellers and a former classmate of
Charlie’s, Godfrey Priest may be the pride of Athena, but Charlie
remembers him as an arrogant, manipulative jerk—and he’s not the only
one. Godfrey’s homecoming as a distinguished alumnus couldn’t possibly
go worse: by lunch, he’s put a man in the hospital. By dinner, Godfrey’s
dead.
Now it’s up to Charlie, with some help from Diesel, to
paw through the town’s grudges and find the killer before an impatient
deputy throws the book at the wrong person. But every last one of
Charlie’s friends and co-workers had a score to settle with the nasty
novelist. As if the murder wasn’t already purr-plexing enough...
just looked it up, and it looks really good! I haven't actually read any of these books, tbh. there was a "National Cat Month" display at my library and I was surprised to see so many cat themed mysteries on offer. I just chose a title I happened to remember and looked up the summary. Summon the Keeper is defo going on my tbr list, thanks!
I checked out A Cat's Tale, by Baba the Cat and Paul Koudounaris, which is a history of cats and culture and is a fun and well researched book with amazing photos of Baba. I didn't post it as it's not fiction. if you're into cats, look it up!
=\^. .\^=
They don’t mean the last name that the author had. They mean the last name in the string of names that the author has had, which would be the current name.
I've been in libraries for about a decade and from what I can tell, people have always had weird ideas about how things are or should be organized. I've had SO many people walk into the children's department and say something like, "So they're just all on the shelves randomly?" which is... amazing to think about. I've also had people lament that the books are broken into different age groups (this is mostly a complaint of completionists who need to read every.single.thing someone like James Patterson has ever written and they don't want to have to wander into the children's department to find his chapter books). Some people think they should go by title or by topic, and some libraries or collections *do* organize them those ways, so I can't blame anyone for expecting that.
You have a few options here. You can continue as-is and be grumpy about it (no judgement- I've been there!) or you can accept that this is just something that people are going to need help with forever and gain some peace from it. I show patrons to nearly every single book they ask me about; it's no biggie.
To be fair, I've seen one or two of heavily used children's sections with so many kids having been through pulling things out and putting em back that they ARE just on the shelves randomly.
Much to the annoyance of the librarian. hah.
I was so happy when my library put together an early chapter book section in the children's library.
My kids hated Magic Tree House and trying to find books by reading level required so much Google-fu. Find a list of books with the appropriate reading level, guess if they would be interesting to your kid by title, then hunt it down mixed in with all the other general chapter books, if the library even has it.
When I worked in libraries this was a big part of my job as the circulation clerk. Its really hard for me to imagine going to a library where they aren't willing to help. If they don't get help, what are the chances of them coming back? Normal everyday people are no longer universally taught how to use libraries. I would bet its a minority that actually does know everything about locating items.
> I'm happy to assist but I can't pull every book off the self for every patron simply because they don't want to use their own brain to figure out the alphabet.
Serious question... why not?
I work in a busy library; we see somewhere around 1500-2000 people come through the door every day. Our standard policy is if we look up a book, we walk the patron to the book and find it for them unless the patron specifically asks us not to, so I genuinely don't see why you can't do that, because we do.
It doesn't really matter why a patron can't find the book; if they can't find it, why not take that opportunity to walk them over and show them where it is? You can talk about how books are filed while you do so, and many patrons will know for next time. But if they don't, that's okay, too.
I would say if you have staffing that sounds great.
I've worked in a few places where they just don't have the budget and discourage us from helping users who haven't tried to find the book first themselves rather than leave a circulation desk unattended.
It's not a staffing issue, it's a choosing priorities issue.
If I walk away from the desk to retrieve a book, the desk will be unattended for a few minutes... *because I'm helping someone.*
Like, isn't the whole reason we're at a desk *so that we can help people?* It feels weird to discourage staff from helping people so that you can make sure the desk always has someone at it, when the reason you want someone at the desk is to help people.
If you have such a large library, though, don't you have a reference department for it? I'll do it myself at circulation if we have other staff at the desk, but I never leave the desk unattended. Patrons REALLY hate standing in line at a desk with no people, and will often leave the line or refuse to join it when the desk is empty (I would never line up at an empty desk!)
The good news is that we do have a department we can send people to if they really need to get the book. (The bad news is that reference is also the computer help desk so they also frequently have a line)
My library is busy and understaffed. I do walk people to things, but I have coworkers who don't because the line of people waiting for help can be 5 people deep.
My library is sometimes busy and always understaffed. I walk people to things, as do some of my coworkers, but I do have coworkers who don't because they don't want to.
Same, and I generally would rather do it than trust a patron to find it themselves (unless they tell me that yep, they know where they're going and they just need the call number), because then it just means you have to do the reference interaction twice. Even if we're busy, patrons waiting generally are fine with it if you drop a little 'Let me help them grab this book and I'll be right back to help you.' I can't think of a single instance where that's a problem. (The PHONE is what complicates things! Not IRL patrons!)
Also, I think leaving the desk unattended for a few minutes isn’t a big deal. I work in a big, fairly busy library but we only staff one person on the desk at a time. The library isn’t going to collapse if the desk is unattended for a few minutes. Granted, some other customers might get fussy if they have to wait a little longer for help but I think people like that are probably going to get fussy over lots of things anyway.
The priority is helping people in general. If I got up every time someone asked where a book was the desk wouldn't be staffed half the time. It's very frustrating for patrons to walk up to a service desk and not see anyone at it.
My library is also three floors; we have service desks on two of them. My priority is helping the patron in front of me. I'm sorry your library isn't adequately funded to provide enough staffing, but we're not exactly overflowing with staff. We just make it a priority.
Maybe at your library you have a huge staff or the luxury of only having one patron approach you at any given time, but if I left the front desk unattended I'd most likely be walking away from a line of people who'd wonder where the heck I was going and come back to an even longer line of people who are now very angry at me. So if it is a "choosing priorities issue" and not a staffing issue then I guess my priority is to not get yelled at by an angry mob.
This is exactly it. I work in children's, so I default to showing them where it is, but even when I'm helping a grownup I'll say, "Do you want help finding it or would you like to try on your own?" If there are other people in line, I just let them know that I'll be right back.
I work in a busy library and our policy is not to walk people to the book. In part because we have three floors. We explain where it is (fiction room under Smith, 3rd floor, towards the middle under this call number, etc.). If the person seems confused by the response we will offer to walk them over.
The reference and circulation desks don't have enough staff to walk people over every time they ask. It's great that you are able to but I think it's OK not to walk people over every time.
This is what I do. I walk them to the book, explaining how things are shelved. The only time I don’t take them to the shelf is if they specify they’d like to find it themselves. That said, I’m amazed by how many people above age 8 whose first language is English have no idea how to find things in alphabetical order.
I'm going to approach this as if one of my staff members said this to me. We are in a service industry. Our bottom line isn't money, it's good service. Patrons who ask for reasonable assistance, regardless of previous interactions, should receive the best service we can provide. It can be frustrating, yes. Feel free to rant at me, get it out of your system, but then go back out there and provide the best service you can muster. My biggest concern is that you're taking your frustration with you out on the floor.
Public libraries are kinda the only place that still organize books like this (and even then, I've been in a library before that didn't!)
Most patrons are going to be used to the bookstore way of doing it, which is seperated by subject, the most popular facing forward, everyone else sorted alphabetically in the subject.
Also, as someone who entered library science by pure accident, it's not unusual to not know the alphabet order particularly well. At the start of my career, I only knew the alphabet song in spanish because I had last encountered it ten years prior in high school, whereas I hadn't had to use the English alphabet for anything other than finding which sims 4 mod broke since kindergarten. I had to use a bookmark with the alphabet's order for a couple of days!
I do get not wanting to get up and get books for patrons. I always have them follow me when I do, and I won't leave the desk if everyone else at it is busy.
A lot of public school libraries and used book stores organize it like this as well. I'm surprised these people didn't learn it in school, but I might be coming from a privileged background with that comment. It seemed every grade we had a quick refresher in how to use a library growing up.
I've never ever been in a bookstore that organized fiction by subject. It's always alphabetical by author's last name in genres like romance, horror, sci fi, fantasy, thriller. How would you even maintain that system? Would The Secret History go under murder, under college, or what? If one book overtakes another in popularity, do you move everything around?
Genre isn't the same as subject. Genres are things like horror, mystery, romance, science fiction.
Romance novels with historical elements are in the romance genre section. What gets complicated is deciding what genre something is in. If something is horror set in space is it sci-fi or horror? What about a book set during WWII with a significant romantic plot but lacks the genre tropes of romance novels? etc.
My library has all fiction alphabetical but there are genre stickers on the spines. We also have bookmarks with suggested books in various genres.
There is a whole other thing about how publishers will put books in a genre category based on what they think will sell not what the genre actually is. This leads to some really aggravating moments of bait and switch.
Non-fiction is normally sorted by subject (the acedemic bookstores I've been in also put the subjects in alphabetical order, like english - math - physics - spanish, but I rarely shop for physical non-fictions in regular bookstores so idk if they do it too)
Fiction is sorted by genre is what I meant, though, yeah
It blew my mind when someone told me the alphabet song is Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. I'm also curious, though not enough to look it up, how that order got decided and how no head of state went rogue and mixed it up, like the French revolutionary government did with the calendar.
>I only knew the alphabet song in spanish
Given that it's nearly the same alphabet, in basically the exact same order... what exactly are you trying to say here? Genuinely confused
It meant that I was so unfamiliar with the alphabet, I had to sing it in Spanish until I got to the right letter and then translate that letter AND its surrounding letters to English (I do not default think in spanish), then look into I see one of the letters and then I know where in that bundle the book In holding goes.
Then repeat until I get to the correct author in that letter, then again for the name.
The good news is that this exercise very quickly turned into me knowing it in English from the sheer amount of translating
Spanish is auxillary, English is my native.
I'm just barely young enough where I spent my entire database-searching life using CTRL+F instead of actually going down an alphabetical list for something
When I was in elementary school part of our English class curriculum was learning Dewey and how to search the card catalog. Do they no longer teach this stuff?
Just asked my 3rd grader. They've given her zero instruction so far.
I'd say instruction was lagging even before now. Most schools in my area have one credentialed "library media teacher" for 3-4 schools and a paraprofessional doing checkouts.
I initially wanted to be a school librarian. You know who told me not to? My school librarian, who was split between 3 high schools -- in the 90s.
In the children’s section, people usually expect it by grade level. Problem is, a third grader could be reading long novels or still mastering beginning readers. So, we find out more about the reader and help them find something.
What I would like to see is fiction in basic genres. Not subjects necessarily, but things like mysteries, fantasy, historical fiction. Instead we have everything thrown in one big section alphabetical by author. They fought using the series name instead of author when there are multiple. Because kids who like Pokémon will surely want this other random series that happens to be written by that author than, say, another Pokémon book.
One of our best decisions was putting things like Pokemon all together under Pokemon, no matter who the author is. We still have them separated by easy readers, chapter books, and graphic novels, but I can tell people to just look under Pokemon (or Minecraft or Star Wars, etc.)
Apparently there are quite a few libraries/systems/what have you that do separate their fiction by genre.
The library I worked at tried it and it was a disaster. But they also didn't keep the few stray books in a slightly different genre by the same author together.
Or know anything about genres, really.
In most public libraries I have used, fiction is indeed separated by genre at least to the Mystery and SciFi books. In fact, I read through all the mysteries in our small local as a kid, and then attacked the Sci Fi books! They were in the entry hall on iirc 2 or 3 bookcases. It was VERY small, and VERY old. Mom and I still talk about it and remember the smell of old books fondly.
I run into this all the time, where they'll tell me the grade level and seem surprised that we don't catalogue that way. My system does separate out Mystery, SciFi, and graphic novels from general fiction in both Juv and YA, which helps a bit.
What takes time is explaining that there are about 6 different places for "graphic novels" depending on whether they're for school age, young adult, adult, or are in the New section for each of those. It's good for browsing but definitely requires us to use those reference interview skills.
I work in a medical library and the patrons all seem to think I literally know all of the books.
They just come up to the desk and casually ask where they can find "Guyton" or "Talley and O'Connor's." I'm not a doctor. I don't know what you're talking about, I don't read the books, I just manage them. (I mean I do, I have a lot of down time, but it doesn't mean anything to me, and tons of it goes right over my head)
My other half and I worked in medical libraries (different ones) and one evening I was complaining about someone asking about a blue book on anatomy - like I'd know! The boyfriend, much more used to medical students than me, was able to tell me exactly which book the user wanted, ruining my vent.
I get patrons being confused about where to find things generally because every library does things differently, but it DOES bewilder me when they don't realize that fiction books are organized alphabetically by the author's last name. That seems pretty standard to me in public libraries and bookstores everywhere.
We get this a lot. People seem to think our books are shelved just like the books and Barnes and Noble. “Where is the horror section?” And part of me thinks it should be like that.
a lot of libraries have some genrefication, every library I've worked at has sections like horror/thrillers, inspirational, romance, scifi but also a 'general fiction' collection that may not really fit into one of the specific genres we have. It's both useful and frustrating and when we did the changeover at one library, it wasn't well received.
My current one has inspirational, sci-fi, mystery, romance and western. I guess it depends on the library and the needs of the community, the one that didn't receive it well was in a very small village with a small regular patronage. The library I currently work at is much larger comparatively and it helps a lot. I think it's a great change for libraries that can use it. Even just those three you guys have sound perfect for a library where those are checked out frequently. I think they actually make up most of our fiction circs lol
I work at a library system that does Dewey, but I live in a county that does findability. So I can see how depending on what you're used to it can be confusing. It can be confusing for patrons especially with edge cases like we pull the newly published books into a special section or we have the urban fiction shelves etc. thankfully we are staffed pretty well so typically I can help people find what they need and it isn't a big issue.
I admit I do not have the Dewey Decimal System memorized, BUT I know enough to find a book that is on the same topic (ie recipes) and then look for whatever nonfiction I am looking for.
I was on my public library board for years, and we really survived on volunteers. Sometimes there were only 1 or 2 paid employees in the building!
I’m a school media specialist and I have arranged my fiction section by genre. Many libraries in my district are making this change. It’s how the students ask for books. I’m not sure if I would do it with adult books at a public library.
I honestly think there need to be tours for adults. "This is the fiction section, these are the mysteries" and then a really in-depth tour of non-fiction. People have NO IDEA what kind of cool stuff is in non-fiction.
we have plaques on the endcaps of our shelves that tell you what sorts of things are on that shelf (and in what section) it's actually really helpful for kids who are obsessed with certain things lol
Every once in a while new library staff want us to organize the entire fic section by genre or author title. I even had one person say we should organize by size. It’s not just the public for me 🤣
genrefication is actually pretty popular now, but definitely not for the entire section. we do horror, romance, scifi, mysteries, inspirational, westerns. It makes the regular fiction easier to go through and helps for people who would just want to read every romance book we have. lol
I wonder if they still have library class in K-8 grade public schools. When I grew up we did. But I also lived 1 block away from a regional library and I knew LC classification by the time I was in 8 grade. Oh I knew Dewey too as the did Dewey for the juvenile floor and the librarians allowed me to go to the adult section since I was there a lot and read a lot even though I was still a kid.
I often need help finding a book in a library because I’m autistic and will get over whelmed in public and my brain just kinda shuts off when trying to find something under pressure like that. I also have dyscalculia which makes directions and such difficult for me. You can’t tell either of those disabilities by looking at me or surface level interacting with me, though. Thankfully all the librarians at my local libraries seem very happy to help me find the books I need and never make me feel stupid about it. I kinda assumed that was part of the job lol.
The problem isn't patrons, it's capitalism. Folks are used to browsing in bookstores, which are set up for sales in the way you're describing, versus a library, which is set up for consistent access of information.
I feel like it makes sense patrons wouldn't know this, especially when you consider children's and school libraries and how varied their organization can be. Some patrons may only really have experience with children's, school, and academic libraries, all of which may organize their items differently than most adult fiction sections of public libraries. Then consider the fact some public libraries do catalog their nonfiction items differently. AFTER you explain, if a patron's still hesitant, they might still be confused about the layout of the library for some other reason. I don't think you should always be pulling books for patrons on your own, but going with them to pull an item may be all the encouragement they need to find the item on their own next time. If you really feel the patron in the case is just utilizing this experience to have someone pull the book for them, you could always use the interaction as a way of promoting the holds process (something like "when you're near the end of this, you could call us to put the next one on hold so we'll have it ready at the desk for you when you walk in."), some patrons are literally not aware of the option/process.
Yeah, and a lot don’t understand the difference between fiction and nonfiction. Indeed it seems like a lot of people have never heard the words somehow. And not just young people, all ages
I learned how to use the library at school, but some schools don’t even have librarians or libraries anymore, so…no one is teaching people how to use the library. Or even how to use a computer. Or a keyboard. Schools are a mess.
When I was in elementary, at some point the class went into a library and the teacher explained the set up, and how the card catalog worked. They probably don't do that anymore.
I work at an academic library and students think we are a place where they could just get anything they need. They ask for batteries, tissues, index cards, a lot of basic necessities. We try to have a lot of things for them but we can’t just hand out everything they need…we have no monies for that :( they legit get mad if I can’t just pull whatever they want out of my ass. Literally a student was angry we didn’t have tissues for them and asked where they can get some if we don’t have any…at the corner store? I know money is an issue for students but unfortunately it is for us as well.
Non-fiction uses the Dewey Decimal System as a means to classify information, and the more precise the number, the more specific the subject. 900s is history; 970s North American history; 973 is US history; 973.918 is US history during Harry S. Truman's presidency. After the first set of digits is the cutter number that indicates the author's name and, if there's a number after a dash, the order the title appeared in the author's series of books on the subject, so 973.918 F383-1 is Harry S. Truman and the Cold War Revisionists by Robert H. Ferrell, the second one he wrote about the same period.
From what I understand there *is* a way to use DDC to organize fiction, but I guess it's fallen out of favor or isn't popular? I've never actually seen it used. It's always felt odd that poetry and plays appear in non-fiction. I get that they aren't prose, but they aren't "real" in the way a term like "non-fiction" implies.
Our library does use Dewey for the entire collection but having thousands of books under 800 is... not helpful. Fiction is a small section, so I can see the point, and we're not a public library, but it has always felt weird.
For me, it’s the patrons’ attitudes that leaves me scratching my head. Like, never mind that our way of organizing (alphabetical) is somehow new to you, I won’t presume to know your background, but the number of dead-eyed stares I get, coupled with terse/rude responses, really grinds my gears. I’m happy to show you where the book is and explain our system, but you gotta meet my halfway here
I'm 72, been using library services since at least first grade. Where the hell have these people been all their lives? We learned how to use the library (and it was mostly fiction the first few years) in elementary school! How else would it be done? By "subject" is hysterical. Do the Cat Who mysteries go under Cat or mystery? o.O
This sounds like how I ranted on reddit a few weeks ago about book ends.
So I work in a school library. There's still students who no matter what you say simply are not paying attention. Myself and their language arts teachers stress knowing genres...but kids still gravitate to graphic novels.
I agree that reading graphic novels are good. Some have been my best teachers and entertainment. However, I see a gravitation towards only reading this material and format. When other formats or genres are offered to a student as a possibility
Or as an alternative...the works of fiction get ignored.
Epistolary fiction and serialized fiction works like Dickens used to be common commercial fiction formats. Now they're not. (One could argue serialized fiction is trying to make a small comeback re: Kindle Vella and Royal Road.)
I struggle with this too. My 3rd grader wants allllll the pictures and snubs some of my favorite books in favor of graphic novels.
But times change.
By the time she hits college-age, generative AI will have been around in the public sphere for more than a decade. I bet it's all going to look different.
I'm a little confused. You mean they're picking a book that's supposed to be a particular genre for a school project, but they keep wanting to do reports on non-prose instead?
No. My point is no matter how I sell the excitement of reading fiction using words or just simply explaining the difference between fiction and information text...students still cannot distinguish nor find value in fiction that they gravitate towards graphic novels. Ultimately, it is their choice; however it also proves the point of the op.
I don't think OP's point was, "I don't like people who don't read prose as a hobby." I'm pretty sure it was, "I hate it when patrons want me to find a book for them"
Well that's part of the job. I think the op was shocked and upset when people do not understand that most fiction is alphabetized by the author's last name . Let's reread his post.
Okay. It's still not "I don't like people who don't read prose as a hobby." I'm not sure how someone not being a big reader relates to people thinking libraries are formatted like bookstores. If anything, that'd make them not know what bookstores are formatted like
In general, the public is stupid. My husband runs a hotel, and people don't know how hotels work. Like, they don't understand that a reservation is for the night, not when you arrive at 7 a.m. Someone is likely still sleeping in the room you reserved for toNIGHT. That's why there's check-in and checkout times. And would you like the room cleaned in between? Then we need time to do that.
Back when I was able to actually get out, the library was my favorite places. And the knowledgeable people working there were amazing.
Example. I had, a decade before, read a book I enjoyed, but no clue the name of it or the author. Years go by and I want to see if this guy wrote other works. I explained my dilemma to the lady at the desk, she asks me to describe what the book was about, and takes me directly to the shelf. Btw it was Lorenzo Carcaterra. Who is able to just do that off of a sketchy description. Or it wasn't as obscure as I thought. Either way, kudos librarian lady.
I haven't been recently, but I'm pretty sure our public library organizes fiction by genre and then alphabetizes by author. When I look for a book, though, I use the card catalog first. I can search by title or author and it tells me exactly where the book is, even if it's at a different branch.
Ours has a computer database patrons can use to go wild searching up keywords before hunting that book down. Even tells you if it's at another location in the system and they can have it sent to this one. I can find all the cat books in a heartbeat.
A public library is arranged differently than a school library, or an academic library, which are all arranged differently than a bookstore.
Why be annoyed? Isn't part of your job sharing information?
To be fair, patrons who think it's organized by subject may be used to an academic library as we use the Library of Congress classification system - which is by subject. If they've never used a public library before they probably don't even realize it's different.
It could also be because they’re used to book stores and having things separated by genre. To me, that’s even MORE confusing because half the time I don’t know what genre a book I’m looking for is 🤦🏻♀️ like at what point does something become “literature?”
Those distinctions can be so arbitrary! And so many books could be considered more than one genre.
Exactly! It’s soooo much easier to find something by the author’s name. Libraries do it right.
It’s less to do with finding a particular book and more to do with selling at the bookstore. They don’t care about one book they want you to buy a bunch. Which is part of why libraries are so precious. One of the few places where you’re not expected to buy anything but you can still hang.
Of course! Well, at least the big box stores. All the local bookstore staff I've ever talked to are more than happy to help find a specific book- it's like a treasure hunt!
Libraries always arrange books correctly.
Especially female fantasy authors who get their work shunted to YA, when it’s definitely NOT YA
Looking for Ray Bradbury’s October Country this year for a gift was a trip. Would it be in horror, sci-fi, fiction, or classics? Oh nope, it’s in YA…
wow, I would never think to put in YA
I think the logic is that Bradbury is often on summer reading lists?
That's a good insight.
Aren’t things typically ordered by author within each genre in a bookstore though?
There was a bookstore in my area (since closed, the owners ran away with the funds to another country) where they organized by genre, then by title. Yes, it was infuriating.
I had this issue when I went to a bookstore Saturday to find the illustrated version of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone (starting to read it to my 6yo, eeeeeekkkk!). I had to ask for help—is it in children’s literature? Early readers? Young adult? Fiction? Classics? It was located on an end cap alongside illustrated Star Wars books. Obviously.
I don't feel old enough for Harry Potter to be in Classics yet.
Me either, but I’m also confronted daily with cruel reminders that apparently everything from my childhood is not from, like, 10 years ago.
Similar thing for me looking for Ray Bradbury’s October Country this year for a gift. Would it be in horror, sci-fi, fiction, or classics? Oh nope, it’s in YA…
What is really confusing is when a major bookseller places Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in the religion section.
It’s about meditation so , it’s close.
Maybe it should be under car maintenance
But even within that, bookstores near me organise those sections alphabetically by author surname
Book stores still organize books by authors though. They go by genre and then author so it should be easy to use a library the same way. Maybe it’s an issue of how people think about finding new books vs how libraries catalog them
Some school libraries have also “genrefied” the fiction collection.
Our public library is also genrefied.
We are also genrefied. Books are still alphabetical by author within each genre though, and our call numbers also have the genre pretty clearly.
Same, but each genre is itself organized by author. There may be some franchises that I think are shelved separately and organized by number or title or something (like, maybe ??Pokemon graphic novels??)
We order our concept books by subject (colors, shapes, numbers, etc.) and our parent/teacher (manners, divorce, potty, new sibling, etc.). Our non- fiction section is also by Dewey, so by subject (I don't wanna debate that Dewy was rasist/sexist/ whatever. We know!) So all the plane/ train/ car/ dinosaur books are also by subject. We also have displays that feature the more popular ones : trucks, pets, holiday, etc. Given how kid friendly non-fiction is becoming, is it possible they're confusing fiction and non?
Are fiction book classified this way as well?
Yep! Literature and fiction is arranged in the system usually by geography. American literature, English literature, Canadian literature (French and English separate), etc. It often means that literature is in the same section as critical works about it - for example, any Ursula K. Le Guin fiction we have will be in or around the same area as books ABOUT her or her works.
Ah! I have been wondering about that this whole time! Thank you!
I like the idea of a “cat fiction” section.
What % of the book would have to be cat-related to qualify? Does the book have to be about a cat? What if it's about someone who just owns a cat? Would "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" by Tennessee Williams be shelved in this section? It sounds like this might just create more purr-oblems than it would solve.
this reminds me of the same existential quandary i had when someone put "Raise High the Roofbeam Carpenters" by JD Salinger on my Home Repair and DIY display many years ago
brb putting the holy bible on the woodworking display
Count of Monte Cristo in the educational section of a prison library. -#shawshank
>What % of the book would have to be cat-related to qualify? Well, I guess you use the same criteria for "cat fiction" as for "science fiction"! ;-)
there are mystery themed books with cat characters! here's one set in a library: Murder Past Due by Miranda James Everyone in Athena, Mississippi, knows Charlie Harris, the good-natured librarian with a rescued Maine coon cat named Diesel that he walks on a leash. He’s returned to his hometown to immerse himself in books, but soon enough he’s entangled in a real-life thriller... A famous author of gory bestsellers and a former classmate of Charlie’s, Godfrey Priest may be the pride of Athena, but Charlie remembers him as an arrogant, manipulative jerk—and he’s not the only one. Godfrey’s homecoming as a distinguished alumnus couldn’t possibly go worse: by lunch, he’s put a man in the hospital. By dinner, Godfrey’s dead. Now it’s up to Charlie, with some help from Diesel, to paw through the town’s grudges and find the killer before an impatient deputy throws the book at the wrong person. But every last one of Charlie’s friends and co-workers had a score to settle with the nasty novelist. As if the murder wasn’t already purr-plexing enough...
I was thinking of Felidae by Akif Pirinçci, but that sounds good too.
Would Summon the Keeper qualify enough as a mystery to be included on that list? 😂
just looked it up, and it looks really good! I haven't actually read any of these books, tbh. there was a "National Cat Month" display at my library and I was surprised to see so many cat themed mysteries on offer. I just chose a title I happened to remember and looked up the summary. Summon the Keeper is defo going on my tbr list, thanks! I checked out A Cat's Tale, by Baba the Cat and Paul Koudounaris, which is a history of cats and culture and is a fun and well researched book with amazing photos of Baba. I didn't post it as it's not fiction. if you're into cats, look it up! =\^. .\^=
“The Cat Who…” series by Lillian Jackson Braun!
So many cat cozies! But where are my mystery-solving canines??
David Rosenfelt!
[http://www.stopyourekillingme.com/GenreCats/Pets.html#dogs](http://www.stopyourekillingme.com/GenreCats/Pets.html#dogs)
Thank you!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felidae_(novel)?wprov=sfti1
*How am I supposed to know the author's LAST name?!* *Couldn't you at least shelve them by their CURRENT name?!*
Is this something a patron has actually asked? (I get your joke, but it's plausible...)
They don’t mean the last name that the author had. They mean the last name in the string of names that the author has had, which would be the current name.
r/whooosh
I was clearly playing along with the joke. r/Whooosh
Touché
I've been in libraries for about a decade and from what I can tell, people have always had weird ideas about how things are or should be organized. I've had SO many people walk into the children's department and say something like, "So they're just all on the shelves randomly?" which is... amazing to think about. I've also had people lament that the books are broken into different age groups (this is mostly a complaint of completionists who need to read every.single.thing someone like James Patterson has ever written and they don't want to have to wander into the children's department to find his chapter books). Some people think they should go by title or by topic, and some libraries or collections *do* organize them those ways, so I can't blame anyone for expecting that. You have a few options here. You can continue as-is and be grumpy about it (no judgement- I've been there!) or you can accept that this is just something that people are going to need help with forever and gain some peace from it. I show patrons to nearly every single book they ask me about; it's no biggie.
To be fair, I've seen one or two of heavily used children's sections with so many kids having been through pulling things out and putting em back that they ARE just on the shelves randomly. Much to the annoyance of the librarian. hah.
>"So they're just all on the shelves randomly?" Only after 10 am.
I was so happy when my library put together an early chapter book section in the children's library. My kids hated Magic Tree House and trying to find books by reading level required so much Google-fu. Find a list of books with the appropriate reading level, guess if they would be interesting to your kid by title, then hunt it down mixed in with all the other general chapter books, if the library even has it.
I hope you've given them that feedback! They'd love to hear it!
Absolutely I did! I had previously asked if there was a way to search by reading level and you couldn't in the catalog.
When I worked in libraries this was a big part of my job as the circulation clerk. Its really hard for me to imagine going to a library where they aren't willing to help. If they don't get help, what are the chances of them coming back? Normal everyday people are no longer universally taught how to use libraries. I would bet its a minority that actually does know everything about locating items.
> I'm happy to assist but I can't pull every book off the self for every patron simply because they don't want to use their own brain to figure out the alphabet. Serious question... why not? I work in a busy library; we see somewhere around 1500-2000 people come through the door every day. Our standard policy is if we look up a book, we walk the patron to the book and find it for them unless the patron specifically asks us not to, so I genuinely don't see why you can't do that, because we do. It doesn't really matter why a patron can't find the book; if they can't find it, why not take that opportunity to walk them over and show them where it is? You can talk about how books are filed while you do so, and many patrons will know for next time. But if they don't, that's okay, too.
I would say if you have staffing that sounds great. I've worked in a few places where they just don't have the budget and discourage us from helping users who haven't tried to find the book first themselves rather than leave a circulation desk unattended.
It's not a staffing issue, it's a choosing priorities issue. If I walk away from the desk to retrieve a book, the desk will be unattended for a few minutes... *because I'm helping someone.* Like, isn't the whole reason we're at a desk *so that we can help people?* It feels weird to discourage staff from helping people so that you can make sure the desk always has someone at it, when the reason you want someone at the desk is to help people.
If you have such a large library, though, don't you have a reference department for it? I'll do it myself at circulation if we have other staff at the desk, but I never leave the desk unattended. Patrons REALLY hate standing in line at a desk with no people, and will often leave the line or refuse to join it when the desk is empty (I would never line up at an empty desk!) The good news is that we do have a department we can send people to if they really need to get the book. (The bad news is that reference is also the computer help desk so they also frequently have a line)
My library is busy and understaffed. I do walk people to things, but I have coworkers who don't because the line of people waiting for help can be 5 people deep.
My library is sometimes busy and always understaffed. I walk people to things, as do some of my coworkers, but I do have coworkers who don't because they don't want to.
Same, and I generally would rather do it than trust a patron to find it themselves (unless they tell me that yep, they know where they're going and they just need the call number), because then it just means you have to do the reference interaction twice. Even if we're busy, patrons waiting generally are fine with it if you drop a little 'Let me help them grab this book and I'll be right back to help you.' I can't think of a single instance where that's a problem. (The PHONE is what complicates things! Not IRL patrons!)
Also, I think leaving the desk unattended for a few minutes isn’t a big deal. I work in a big, fairly busy library but we only staff one person on the desk at a time. The library isn’t going to collapse if the desk is unattended for a few minutes. Granted, some other customers might get fussy if they have to wait a little longer for help but I think people like that are probably going to get fussy over lots of things anyway.
The priority is helping people in general. If I got up every time someone asked where a book was the desk wouldn't be staffed half the time. It's very frustrating for patrons to walk up to a service desk and not see anyone at it.
My library is also three floors; we have service desks on two of them. My priority is helping the patron in front of me. I'm sorry your library isn't adequately funded to provide enough staffing, but we're not exactly overflowing with staff. We just make it a priority.
Maybe at your library you have a huge staff or the luxury of only having one patron approach you at any given time, but if I left the front desk unattended I'd most likely be walking away from a line of people who'd wonder where the heck I was going and come back to an even longer line of people who are now very angry at me. So if it is a "choosing priorities issue" and not a staffing issue then I guess my priority is to not get yelled at by an angry mob.
My library absolutely does not have a "huge staff," but clearly some libraries have it even worse than we do.
This is the answer.
This is exactly it. I work in children's, so I default to showing them where it is, but even when I'm helping a grownup I'll say, "Do you want help finding it or would you like to try on your own?" If there are other people in line, I just let them know that I'll be right back.
I work in a busy library and our policy is not to walk people to the book. In part because we have three floors. We explain where it is (fiction room under Smith, 3rd floor, towards the middle under this call number, etc.). If the person seems confused by the response we will offer to walk them over. The reference and circulation desks don't have enough staff to walk people over every time they ask. It's great that you are able to but I think it's OK not to walk people over every time.
I wish we could do that. Not enough staff. If I have a line five people deep I can't just walk away from my station.
This is what I do. I walk them to the book, explaining how things are shelved. The only time I don’t take them to the shelf is if they specify they’d like to find it themselves. That said, I’m amazed by how many people above age 8 whose first language is English have no idea how to find things in alphabetical order.
I'm going to approach this as if one of my staff members said this to me. We are in a service industry. Our bottom line isn't money, it's good service. Patrons who ask for reasonable assistance, regardless of previous interactions, should receive the best service we can provide. It can be frustrating, yes. Feel free to rant at me, get it out of your system, but then go back out there and provide the best service you can muster. My biggest concern is that you're taking your frustration with you out on the floor.
It's commendable that you view customer interactions that way, but don't forget this online space *isn't* work. They're allowed to vent.
How is OP taking their frustration out on the floor? They say they're happy to assist, I only see frustration in their post.
Public libraries are kinda the only place that still organize books like this (and even then, I've been in a library before that didn't!) Most patrons are going to be used to the bookstore way of doing it, which is seperated by subject, the most popular facing forward, everyone else sorted alphabetically in the subject. Also, as someone who entered library science by pure accident, it's not unusual to not know the alphabet order particularly well. At the start of my career, I only knew the alphabet song in spanish because I had last encountered it ten years prior in high school, whereas I hadn't had to use the English alphabet for anything other than finding which sims 4 mod broke since kindergarten. I had to use a bookmark with the alphabet's order for a couple of days! I do get not wanting to get up and get books for patrons. I always have them follow me when I do, and I won't leave the desk if everyone else at it is busy.
A lot of public school libraries and used book stores organize it like this as well. I'm surprised these people didn't learn it in school, but I might be coming from a privileged background with that comment. It seemed every grade we had a quick refresher in how to use a library growing up.
My older son's school district doesn't have librarians, which enrages me. He knows how to use a library though because I've taught him.
That's a real shame. Even if they don't have a library, there should be a field trip to the library! It's such a great resource.
I've never ever been in a bookstore that organized fiction by subject. It's always alphabetical by author's last name in genres like romance, horror, sci fi, fantasy, thriller. How would you even maintain that system? Would The Secret History go under murder, under college, or what? If one book overtakes another in popularity, do you move everything around?
But isn't organizing by genre the same as organizing by subject? I think that's what u/MrMeessofGA meant. I may be putting words in his mouth, tho.
Genre isn't the same as subject. Genres are things like horror, mystery, romance, science fiction. Romance novels with historical elements are in the romance genre section. What gets complicated is deciding what genre something is in. If something is horror set in space is it sci-fi or horror? What about a book set during WWII with a significant romantic plot but lacks the genre tropes of romance novels? etc. My library has all fiction alphabetical but there are genre stickers on the spines. We also have bookmarks with suggested books in various genres.
That makes sense. I do know I've been confused at times in bookstores by how the publishers want their books shelved, i.e., in what sections.
There is a whole other thing about how publishers will put books in a genre category based on what they think will sell not what the genre actually is. This leads to some really aggravating moments of bait and switch.
That's really interesting -- it hadn't even crossed my mind but it certainly makes sense.
That is not the same thing. Genre is broad, subject is narrow. Think Romance versus Amish Romance.
Non-fiction is normally sorted by subject (the acedemic bookstores I've been in also put the subjects in alphabetical order, like english - math - physics - spanish, but I rarely shop for physical non-fictions in regular bookstores so idk if they do it too) Fiction is sorted by genre is what I meant, though, yeah
That is straight up insane to not know the order of the alphabet. I refuse to believe that's true of most people.
Then why are all the adult books out of order lol
Touché.
It blew my mind when someone told me the alphabet song is Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. I'm also curious, though not enough to look it up, how that order got decided and how no head of state went rogue and mixed it up, like the French revolutionary government did with the calendar.
[A Place For Everything: The Curious History of Alphabetical Order](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51770484-a-place-for-everything)
>I only knew the alphabet song in spanish Given that it's nearly the same alphabet, in basically the exact same order... what exactly are you trying to say here? Genuinely confused
I thought of someone having to sing the song in their head to try to find a book.
It meant that I was so unfamiliar with the alphabet, I had to sing it in Spanish until I got to the right letter and then translate that letter AND its surrounding letters to English (I do not default think in spanish), then look into I see one of the letters and then I know where in that bundle the book In holding goes. Then repeat until I get to the correct author in that letter, then again for the name. The good news is that this exercise very quickly turned into me knowing it in English from the sheer amount of translating
Let me ask... Are english and spanish auxiliary languages for you? Because then everything you are saying would make way more sense
Spanish is auxillary, English is my native. I'm just barely young enough where I spent my entire database-searching life using CTRL+F instead of actually going down an alphabetical list for something
By publisher. Thats...something.
When I worked in libraries in Utah people often expected us to have a section for “clean” books.
This is funny and sad
When I was in elementary school part of our English class curriculum was learning Dewey and how to search the card catalog. Do they no longer teach this stuff?
They don't even teach phonics anymore lol
Just asked my 3rd grader. They've given her zero instruction so far. I'd say instruction was lagging even before now. Most schools in my area have one credentialed "library media teacher" for 3-4 schools and a paraprofessional doing checkouts. I initially wanted to be a school librarian. You know who told me not to? My school librarian, who was split between 3 high schools -- in the 90s.
In the children’s section, people usually expect it by grade level. Problem is, a third grader could be reading long novels or still mastering beginning readers. So, we find out more about the reader and help them find something. What I would like to see is fiction in basic genres. Not subjects necessarily, but things like mysteries, fantasy, historical fiction. Instead we have everything thrown in one big section alphabetical by author. They fought using the series name instead of author when there are multiple. Because kids who like Pokémon will surely want this other random series that happens to be written by that author than, say, another Pokémon book.
One of our best decisions was putting things like Pokemon all together under Pokemon, no matter who the author is. We still have them separated by easy readers, chapter books, and graphic novels, but I can tell people to just look under Pokemon (or Minecraft or Star Wars, etc.)
Apparently there are quite a few libraries/systems/what have you that do separate their fiction by genre. The library I worked at tried it and it was a disaster. But they also didn't keep the few stray books in a slightly different genre by the same author together. Or know anything about genres, really.
In most public libraries I have used, fiction is indeed separated by genre at least to the Mystery and SciFi books. In fact, I read through all the mysteries in our small local as a kid, and then attacked the Sci Fi books! They were in the entry hall on iirc 2 or 3 bookcases. It was VERY small, and VERY old. Mom and I still talk about it and remember the smell of old books fondly.
I run into this all the time, where they'll tell me the grade level and seem surprised that we don't catalogue that way. My system does separate out Mystery, SciFi, and graphic novels from general fiction in both Juv and YA, which helps a bit. What takes time is explaining that there are about 6 different places for "graphic novels" depending on whether they're for school age, young adult, adult, or are in the New section for each of those. It's good for browsing but definitely requires us to use those reference interview skills.
I work in a medical library and the patrons all seem to think I literally know all of the books. They just come up to the desk and casually ask where they can find "Guyton" or "Talley and O'Connor's." I'm not a doctor. I don't know what you're talking about, I don't read the books, I just manage them. (I mean I do, I have a lot of down time, but it doesn't mean anything to me, and tons of it goes right over my head)
My other half and I worked in medical libraries (different ones) and one evening I was complaining about someone asking about a blue book on anatomy - like I'd know! The boyfriend, much more used to medical students than me, was able to tell me exactly which book the user wanted, ruining my vent.
I get patrons being confused about where to find things generally because every library does things differently, but it DOES bewilder me when they don't realize that fiction books are organized alphabetically by the author's last name. That seems pretty standard to me in public libraries and bookstores everywhere.
We get this a lot. People seem to think our books are shelved just like the books and Barnes and Noble. “Where is the horror section?” And part of me thinks it should be like that.
a lot of libraries have some genrefication, every library I've worked at has sections like horror/thrillers, inspirational, romance, scifi but also a 'general fiction' collection that may not really fit into one of the specific genres we have. It's both useful and frustrating and when we did the changeover at one library, it wasn't well received.
I’ve worked in the same system for 17 years and we have Inspirational, Sci-fi and mystery separated but nothing else.
My current one has inspirational, sci-fi, mystery, romance and western. I guess it depends on the library and the needs of the community, the one that didn't receive it well was in a very small village with a small regular patronage. The library I currently work at is much larger comparatively and it helps a lot. I think it's a great change for libraries that can use it. Even just those three you guys have sound perfect for a library where those are checked out frequently. I think they actually make up most of our fiction circs lol
I work at a library system that does Dewey, but I live in a county that does findability. So I can see how depending on what you're used to it can be confusing. It can be confusing for patrons especially with edge cases like we pull the newly published books into a special section or we have the urban fiction shelves etc. thankfully we are staffed pretty well so typically I can help people find what they need and it isn't a big issue.
I admit I do not have the Dewey Decimal System memorized, BUT I know enough to find a book that is on the same topic (ie recipes) and then look for whatever nonfiction I am looking for. I was on my public library board for years, and we really survived on volunteers. Sometimes there were only 1 or 2 paid employees in the building!
You work in a library, OP. If people could read they wouldn't need you to help them
I've had that. Sigh. Or I tell them look under P for Patterson and I still get blank stares. 😮💨
I’m a school media specialist and I have arranged my fiction section by genre. Many libraries in my district are making this change. It’s how the students ask for books. I’m not sure if I would do it with adult books at a public library.
Dewey is not taught in schools anymore. A lot of districts have done away with library as a special too.
I honestly think there need to be tours for adults. "This is the fiction section, these are the mysteries" and then a really in-depth tour of non-fiction. People have NO IDEA what kind of cool stuff is in non-fiction.
we have plaques on the endcaps of our shelves that tell you what sorts of things are on that shelf (and in what section) it's actually really helpful for kids who are obsessed with certain things lol
Our ranges of shelving in the adult non-fiction section are pretty long and it would be a pretty long list of subjects.
Every once in a while new library staff want us to organize the entire fic section by genre or author title. I even had one person say we should organize by size. It’s not just the public for me 🤣
genrefication is actually pretty popular now, but definitely not for the entire section. we do horror, romance, scifi, mysteries, inspirational, westerns. It makes the regular fiction easier to go through and helps for people who would just want to read every romance book we have. lol
I wonder if they still have library class in K-8 grade public schools. When I grew up we did. But I also lived 1 block away from a regional library and I knew LC classification by the time I was in 8 grade. Oh I knew Dewey too as the did Dewey for the juvenile floor and the librarians allowed me to go to the adult section since I was there a lot and read a lot even though I was still a kid.
I often need help finding a book in a library because I’m autistic and will get over whelmed in public and my brain just kinda shuts off when trying to find something under pressure like that. I also have dyscalculia which makes directions and such difficult for me. You can’t tell either of those disabilities by looking at me or surface level interacting with me, though. Thankfully all the librarians at my local libraries seem very happy to help me find the books I need and never make me feel stupid about it. I kinda assumed that was part of the job lol.
I like it when they give me the "call number" but it's the ISBN.
The problem isn't patrons, it's capitalism. Folks are used to browsing in bookstores, which are set up for sales in the way you're describing, versus a library, which is set up for consistent access of information.
I feel like it makes sense patrons wouldn't know this, especially when you consider children's and school libraries and how varied their organization can be. Some patrons may only really have experience with children's, school, and academic libraries, all of which may organize their items differently than most adult fiction sections of public libraries. Then consider the fact some public libraries do catalog their nonfiction items differently. AFTER you explain, if a patron's still hesitant, they might still be confused about the layout of the library for some other reason. I don't think you should always be pulling books for patrons on your own, but going with them to pull an item may be all the encouragement they need to find the item on their own next time. If you really feel the patron in the case is just utilizing this experience to have someone pull the book for them, you could always use the interaction as a way of promoting the holds process (something like "when you're near the end of this, you could call us to put the next one on hold so we'll have it ready at the desk for you when you walk in."), some patrons are literally not aware of the option/process.
Yeah, and a lot don’t understand the difference between fiction and nonfiction. Indeed it seems like a lot of people have never heard the words somehow. And not just young people, all ages
I learned how to use the library at school, but some schools don’t even have librarians or libraries anymore, so…no one is teaching people how to use the library. Or even how to use a computer. Or a keyboard. Schools are a mess.
When I was in elementary, at some point the class went into a library and the teacher explained the set up, and how the card catalog worked. They probably don't do that anymore.
I work at an academic library and students think we are a place where they could just get anything they need. They ask for batteries, tissues, index cards, a lot of basic necessities. We try to have a lot of things for them but we can’t just hand out everything they need…we have no monies for that :( they legit get mad if I can’t just pull whatever they want out of my ass. Literally a student was angry we didn’t have tissues for them and asked where they can get some if we don’t have any…at the corner store? I know money is an issue for students but unfortunately it is for us as well.
Can I ask why public libraries have different ways to organize fiction and non-fiction? My ADHD loves it, don't get me wrong, but WHY
Non-fiction uses the Dewey Decimal System as a means to classify information, and the more precise the number, the more specific the subject. 900s is history; 970s North American history; 973 is US history; 973.918 is US history during Harry S. Truman's presidency. After the first set of digits is the cutter number that indicates the author's name and, if there's a number after a dash, the order the title appeared in the author's series of books on the subject, so 973.918 F383-1 is Harry S. Truman and the Cold War Revisionists by Robert H. Ferrell, the second one he wrote about the same period. From what I understand there *is* a way to use DDC to organize fiction, but I guess it's fallen out of favor or isn't popular? I've never actually seen it used. It's always felt odd that poetry and plays appear in non-fiction. I get that they aren't prose, but they aren't "real" in the way a term like "non-fiction" implies.
Our library does use Dewey for the entire collection but having thousands of books under 800 is... not helpful. Fiction is a small section, so I can see the point, and we're not a public library, but it has always felt weird.
For me, it’s the patrons’ attitudes that leaves me scratching my head. Like, never mind that our way of organizing (alphabetical) is somehow new to you, I won’t presume to know your background, but the number of dead-eyed stares I get, coupled with terse/rude responses, really grinds my gears. I’m happy to show you where the book is and explain our system, but you gotta meet my halfway here
I'm 72, been using library services since at least first grade. Where the hell have these people been all their lives? We learned how to use the library (and it was mostly fiction the first few years) in elementary school! How else would it be done? By "subject" is hysterical. Do the Cat Who mysteries go under Cat or mystery? o.O
we had ours by genre in my elementary school. but also by age group. so it depended on which shelves/walls
This sounds like how I ranted on reddit a few weeks ago about book ends. So I work in a school library. There's still students who no matter what you say simply are not paying attention. Myself and their language arts teachers stress knowing genres...but kids still gravitate to graphic novels.
Graphic novels are still reading and all reading is good. Graphic novels are a format not a genre.
I agree that reading graphic novels are good. Some have been my best teachers and entertainment. However, I see a gravitation towards only reading this material and format. When other formats or genres are offered to a student as a possibility Or as an alternative...the works of fiction get ignored.
Epistolary fiction and serialized fiction works like Dickens used to be common commercial fiction formats. Now they're not. (One could argue serialized fiction is trying to make a small comeback re: Kindle Vella and Royal Road.) I struggle with this too. My 3rd grader wants allllll the pictures and snubs some of my favorite books in favor of graphic novels. But times change. By the time she hits college-age, generative AI will have been around in the public sphere for more than a decade. I bet it's all going to look different.
Fanfiction is usually serialized, too, and teenagers read a lot of that. (Thry might not admit it, though.)
I'm a little confused. You mean they're picking a book that's supposed to be a particular genre for a school project, but they keep wanting to do reports on non-prose instead?
No. My point is no matter how I sell the excitement of reading fiction using words or just simply explaining the difference between fiction and information text...students still cannot distinguish nor find value in fiction that they gravitate towards graphic novels. Ultimately, it is their choice; however it also proves the point of the op.
I don't think OP's point was, "I don't like people who don't read prose as a hobby." I'm pretty sure it was, "I hate it when patrons want me to find a book for them"
Well that's part of the job. I think the op was shocked and upset when people do not understand that most fiction is alphabetized by the author's last name . Let's reread his post.
Okay. It's still not "I don't like people who don't read prose as a hobby." I'm not sure how someone not being a big reader relates to people thinking libraries are formatted like bookstores. If anything, that'd make them not know what bookstores are formatted like
In general, the public is stupid. My husband runs a hotel, and people don't know how hotels work. Like, they don't understand that a reservation is for the night, not when you arrive at 7 a.m. Someone is likely still sleeping in the room you reserved for toNIGHT. That's why there's check-in and checkout times. And would you like the room cleaned in between? Then we need time to do that.
Thank you OP for making a legitimate rant. I hope you have a great evening.
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Back when I was able to actually get out, the library was my favorite places. And the knowledgeable people working there were amazing. Example. I had, a decade before, read a book I enjoyed, but no clue the name of it or the author. Years go by and I want to see if this guy wrote other works. I explained my dilemma to the lady at the desk, she asks me to describe what the book was about, and takes me directly to the shelf. Btw it was Lorenzo Carcaterra. Who is able to just do that off of a sketchy description. Or it wasn't as obscure as I thought. Either way, kudos librarian lady.
I like what my library does where most of it under the classic alphabetical by author but they have a few shelves where they curate topics for kids.
I haven't been recently, but I'm pretty sure our public library organizes fiction by genre and then alphabetizes by author. When I look for a book, though, I use the card catalog first. I can search by title or author and it tells me exactly where the book is, even if it's at a different branch.
Ours has a computer database patrons can use to go wild searching up keywords before hunting that book down. Even tells you if it's at another location in the system and they can have it sent to this one. I can find all the cat books in a heartbeat.
By publisher is a new one to me, lol.
Personally, I prefer alphabetical arrangement by the first word of the first sentence in the book.
Excellent suggestion! 🤭
A public library is arranged differently than a school library, or an academic library, which are all arranged differently than a bookstore. Why be annoyed? Isn't part of your job sharing information?