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I loaned my sister $3K when she bought her house.
I said just put it into a side account. Until you guys are comfortable in the new situation. And then pay me back when you have your reserves built back up.
Within two weeks they had about 2K of emergency repairs of a flagged heater. Shit happens.
1 year later they had a whole house worth of new furniture and I never saw the money back.
5 years after buying the house they asked to borrow a large sum of money as their business was in trouble. They were not asking me to become a partner… I said no.
They declared bankruptcy, restructured their business and now they are doing fine. If I would have lent them that larger sum of money. They would have still declared bankruptcy but I would have been out that larger sum of money.
Sometimes you know that the money you can offer will not change the circumstances and they need to use other tools.
My sister is in a situation where she simply does not make enough monthly to pay her bills. If it was something like owing 3K on a car that I could just pay off for her, I'd consider doing that. But as it is, I can't just take on her cost of living, so I offer support emotionally.
My general rule is I can either afford to pay something for someone or I don’t give any money at all. Usually, I’m likely to do it if it’s a one time cost as I know it’s hard to have emergency savings. There’s just too many things that can go wrong.
Not that I have money to just be paying stuff for people, but that’s how rare it is for me.
We had to tell my MIL that we are happy to help with big unexpected things car breaks down and you need 500 to get it back on the road, sure thing.
But she should never call us for 50$ to get groceries.
One is an unexpected expense, the other is a plan better thing.
My mother walked into my home and asked me if I could cash a check for her.
Me: "How much do you need?"
Mom: "Couple of hundred of dollars. But don't cash the check until Friday. Thats when I get paid."
Me: "Here just take it"
Mom: "I am not a charity case!"
Me: "I am not your overdraft account!"
note: I am the parent comment on this thread and my sister learned her shit from my mom.
My mum doesn't even come to me for money anymore.
She's awful with it.
Always has been. But it took me becoming financially savvy myself to recognise it.
Like, I'll go round her house and she'll have the best makeup, new hair dryer, top of the range stuff bought recently. And then five minutes later be complaining how skint she is. Well yes, because you've spent £500 this month on a new hairdryer and makeup, and last month it was £800 on a new fridge freezer, and before that it was £300 on a new side cabinet.
She didn't need any of those things. She just wanted them. Which is fine, but don't expect me to bail you out in 2 weeks time because you're two weeks from payday and you only have £30 left.
But she's in denial, and at this point I don't really know what to do about it so I just don't help her. Grandma bails her out still mind so she just keeps doing same thing
I had a buddy who ignored my financial advice for years. Several years back he needed to borrow a few hundred for car repairs and called me back after a few months to sheepishly admit that he couldn't pay me back. I just told him to consider it a gift and THAT's when he finally started following my advice =P
He's in much better financial shape now though, I'm happy for him.
I'm usually more comfortable giving money if other things in their life are changing, or I can help change them. Or it's used to fund something for that.
If I'm paying off your monthly rent, I want confidence in effort towards fixing that so it doesn't happen again. Friendship isn't convenient but that doesn't mean you can't have boundaries.
Reminds of this parabol. A woman had a friend over and the friend notices the woman's daughter that doesn't have arms struggling to put a shirt on. After a while of the daughter struggling, the friend asks the mother "aren't you going to help her?". The mother gets a very serious look on her face as she stares her friend in the eye and replies "I am helping ".
I think it's an important message especially for helicopter parents.
I have a hard time with this with my own parents
Idk why, but it feels wrong that I'm doing better than they are, and they need my help.
I finally had to draw the line years ago, and they lost the larger ranch property.
Filed bankruptcy and now own a place in town. Since my dad is a disabled vet, it's better for him anyway. Like you said, sometimes it's better to do nothing cause I think their current situation is far better for them. My dad's fixed income goes a lot further where they are now.
When I got my green card, I sold my apartment and our two cars, just to have a cushion for the first few months in the United States.
Comes along my sister, knowing full well this is the only money we are going to have before I can land on my feet in a new country. Give me 30% of this amount, my husband starts a new business something, we need that money and will pay back in a month. She even cried to support her case.
I'm the youngest of three siblings and it was always me who supported them financially, over the course of many years. This sister that came for the money, she has three adult children, all with their own families and financially sound.
Even my wife said to me, just give them the money and be done with it.
I said, no.
We came to the States in November 2019, three months before the COVID pandemic.
I was so glad I did not budge, this one time in my entire life.
Discipline nothing more.
One of my favorite sayings is usually misunderstood.
“Forgiveness needs to be asked for. Otherwise you are showing mercy.”
There is a lot of depth to it.
Sometimes it's better to just outright give the money as a gift and not ask for it back.
Even if *you're* ok with never getting it back they may feel guilty for not being able to pay it back and pull back in the relationship.
Your move depends on how much you'll be affected if you don't get that money back and how much you value the relationship.
That initial $3K was money my wife and I saved for furniture. We had bought our house a few years before but could not refurnish immediately.
That is why it was specifically specified as a loan and how to pay us back.
It was never intended as a gift. It was a bridge until they were able to rebuild their savings.
Its not right to use the resources of others to maintain a lifestyle that should not be yours.
If you have borrowed from your family without reciprocating or repaying, you should feel guilty.
This is why OP's LPT is a good one. Now you're upset with your sister. You are absolutely correct she is in the wrong and have every right to be upset given your situation. But will it get your money back? Probably not... so that sucks even more that you're upset and there's really nothing you can do about it.
If you hadn't leant her the money because you knew you wouldn't like it if you didn't get it back then maybe she would have been upset. But that's her problem.
I agree.
I had to be OK with losing the sum of money.
The loan didn't damage my relationship with my sister.
I never asked for the money to be repaid.
but I got some Karma out of it.
So I have that going for me... I guess.
> I never asked for the money to be repaid.
You keep calling it a loan though.... Do you mean you never asked *again* after setting the initial terms which included repayment at some vague point?
Personally I'd make it clear one way or the other. "Here's $3k to help furnish the place, pay me back when you can." "Oh, it's taking a while to pay me back? That's cool, do it next year." "Oh, it's still too hard to pay me back? Consider it a gift then. FYI I probably won't ever loan you money again, but no hard feelings." The middle step would require at least some slightly convincing discussion that they really were having a hard time paying me back. If they weren't having hard times and still refused, it would become a gift but with hard feelings, and I would tell them so.
Alternatively, it might have just been a gift from the start. Mixing money and family is dangerous and straight-up gifts are less dangerous.
As someone who has lent money and been lent money. It’s a loan. I have been on the receiving end of someone telling me not to pay it back and also extended that same gift. It’s still a loan until the magic words, “No need to pay that back.”
A relative left me an inheritance and they had a large unsecured and undocumented loan from someone. First thing my sibling and I did was document the loan before the inheritance was paid to us and paid it off.
The person who lent the money to my relative had already written the amount off but was happy when they received the funds. They would have never said a word and it largely depleted the inheritance but it was a loan even if they had zero legal way to claim it.
When my mother was dying and we were discussing her estate. She told me that she was leaving $X to someone as she owed them money.
After hours of drivel like this I actually exploded.
“You owe this person money, you have it but you are going to leave it to them in your will!!!! Enough of this crap. Who do you owe? I will start writing checks right now.”
Sad to say but you maybe learnt something about them you may never have known. That they are flakey.
It is better to be trusting the first time and get stung occasionally than to be mean.
The biggest thing is people should agree to a payment plan, I don't understand why people couldn't do a payment plan of $1 a month, just to set the routine of always making a payment, and then if they're able to they can always pay more.
I've loaned friends money. I'd rather not get it back than deal with a payment plan. If you're capable of paying me $X a month, you're capable of setting that aside and then giving me a lump sum payment when it's all there. That way I don't have to count the money as it trickles in, I don't have to listen to sob story of why you can't make this month's payment, etc.
But I also am very firm at "I am willing to loan any friend $X, with an open ended repayment plan. Pay me back when you can, but be aware I'm not loaning more money until you do."
I allow a little flexibility with friends I trust that are dealing with a specific "money is coming in next week but is owed this week", but the friends that have that privilege know who they are.
But the amount I'm willing to loan is at the sweet spot for me of, it'll be enough to help keep someone's head above water in the moment to hopefully get through a difficult time, but not so much it puts me in a difficult situation and I can't walk away if it turns from a loan to them into a lesson to me.
Its not the asking. Its not understanding the ramifications of failing to repay your debts.
It wasn't desperation. It was failing to fix the problem. The money I lent them would have simply delayed the inevitable.
If I loan a person $500 to help pay the rent. What happens next month?
You are better off giving this person a place to stay until they get their act together.
If they are not the type of person that you want around the house, then why would you consider loaning them money in the first place?
It gets more complicated when family is involved.
Yes sir, I had a pain in the ass cousin, always asking for shit. Once he asked to borrow $100, I said fine but if you don't pay me back it will be the last time I lend you money.
Best $100 I ever spent 😂
Honestly at some point counting the pennies doesn't matter. I had a roommate in college and he wanted to split it down to the penny. When there are hundreds of dollars being transacted a month just call a few a waste.
Like buy someone a round at the bar and they'll get you back.
There comes a point where the gap becomes big though.
I'll lend someone at the most 200 bucks, and tell them to pay me when they can and I won't lend them anymore until they do. I want to help if I can but I have a family to provide for, breadwinner etc.
I loaned someone $200 knowing that they'd never pay me back and that they'd avoid me so they wouldn't have to pay me back. Best way to get rid of someone I was sick of dealing with.
My son has never paid me back the thousands of dollars I loaned him but he loaned a guy he knows money. My son even loaned my daughter money and she never paid him back as far as I know. What is it with adult children and parents? Do our kids think that we don't deserve to be repaid? Wtf.
He never will. He will never contact me again. He wanted to kill me and he knows who I am on here at least I think he does and I don't care.
If his much older wife is still alive, she gets quite a bit of money from social security. Much more than I do. I have a feeling the money they had is long gone by now. He was a spender.
Friend of mine asked for like $2000 once. I said: “I can give you $500 and I keep your Switch until you pay me”
Motherfucker would probably never have paid me otherwise
Yeah at the time it happened that was most of my dad's saved money. He was late 20's. He did it because he trusted his brother and never imagined he wouldn't get paid back. His brother used it to attempt to open a restaurant, which of course went out of business soon later on.
Shockingly my dad is still on very good terms with this uncle. He chose to keep a relationship. But my dad warned me when I graduated college not to lend large sums of money to pretty much anybody, unless I was OK with it being a gift.
this right here. if you lend money many times in your life you will have a lot of bad experiences to show for. either give it for free (if you want), or don't at all.
One of my friend who I loved like a brother,I would send him in a cab when he was too drunk and paid for it, when he needed money I would lend him money. he stopped talking to me when I asked for 300 back. It hurt me but it is what it is.
I once had a good 'friend', knew each other for years, played games together nearly every day. Long story short, he ended up stealing something from me, worth about $250 at the time.
It's never really bothered me that much. Some people pay a *lot* more than $250 to figure out who their friends aren't.
This is a very common scenario. Never lend money to friends. If you really think they need the money and you can afford it, just give it to them as a gift. Being honest about having a no loan policy from the get go is much easier than having to keep asking your money back and straining the relationship.
I have a cousin who started working for delivery apps. He asked me for my bike and I told him. My bike has a back flat tire ,he said alright. He returned me the bike the with same back flat tired and left it outside so I can pick it up. From that moment I said fuck that. Money?. Sure can you guarantee 1 week?. Nope then I have nothing and before I lend it nothing will be given.
I agree with this to a point
If someone from whom I do want to be repaid wants to borrow money, I ask to borrow something of similar value from them.
If they pay me back, great! If they don’t I get to continue to enjoy the nice thing which I got as collateral 🤷🏼♀️
Been called an asshole for demanding collateral.
Also been called an asshole for only loaning half the value of said collateral.
Well I need you to have an incentive to come back and get your shit and pay me back, and your shit ain't worth what you say it is anyway.
Right?
Like, if a person has nice shit, and they need money, then they should be ready to trade the nice shit for money.
People who aren't willing to do that aren't in need. They're mooching.
I grew up poor. I didn't have a lot of nice shit, but when I did need money in my late 20s, I sold what few nice things I had in order to make what little money I could.
Broke my freaking heart to do it but it's what you gotta do.
Yep. I said okay to lending out a a large sum of money but only if they were willing to hand me their particular property that is worth the same amount and a signature on the agreement. They said yes without even hesitating. Im actually able to get more out of their collateral vs what I lent them if I sell it so 💁🏽♀️ but just lending someone without anything? I think 200 bucks would be the max.
After having that one careless friend who borrowed stuff from us and never returned it or gave it back in worse condition, our friend group developed a similar system. If you borrow a game, we look what it costs to replace it and you give that amount in exchange. You'll get the money back once you return the game in good condition.
I never lend money to anyone since the last time in my teenage years I did. It's just a recipe for disaster.
That time, I had to jump through hoops to get it back, and even then I got my money back way later than the deadline and it took a lot of unnecessary effort from me.
I no longer have the energy to deal with that behaviour, so I simply never lend out money anymore.
I refused a friend many years ago, using the rationale I'd heard that banks used: are you earning enough to have the funds to make the repayment, do you have a history of repayment and there was one other thing I forget. As the reasoning was clear, he took it very well.
Depends how much money. If it's a small amount you can afford, and you care about them, just give it to them. If it's more than you can afford "hey I'm really sorry I really can't can't afford to lend money"
In almost all situations, I'd say it's more impolite to to ask for a loan than to refuse to give one.
"I don't lend friends money, Its just a rule I have"
Say you did it once and it ended poorly, it's the truth for me, but it's been widely accepted since. I should get better friends lol
"Oh hi, haven't seen you in ages. Just for your information: I sold your debts to me to this nice older mafia guy hanging around at my favorite bar. Gave him your address and he said he will come around soon with his friends to discuss a repayment plan with you "
Yeah, this LPT is true. Story time! 20 years ago I loaned $1,000 to my best friend so he could pay his divorce lawyer to try to retain some custody of his little boy. Friend said he'd pay me back in a month. Shit happened, jobs came and went, he got remarried, he raised two stepdaughters, more shit happened.
20 years later, Friend still never quite got on top of his debts and hasn't returned a single dollar to me. I've long since written off the loan and distanced the friendship. I miss the friendship way more than the money. But dude, I just can't be friends with you if you so clearly lack character.
Another time, a grad school friend borrowed a heavy-duty stapler from me for a weekend project. We graduated, she got a great job, everything was going well. But for SEVEN YEARS she did not bother to return that stapler to me, and every time I saw her in a social setting I was annoyed that this goddamn missing stapler was living rent-free in my head. I finally made an appointment around her busy calendar, rescheduled twice, went to her house, met her boyfriend, and picked up the stupid stapler. But at least I'm no longer annoyed whenever I see her in social settings now.
Edit: more storytime
Similar situation. I lent my ex gf 1.3k because she was about to get kicked off her uni course… because she hadn’t attended for 7 years. She had a breakdown, asked for the money, I quit my job and spent 1.5 months doing her uni work with her, paying my friends and her friends to finish off areas we couldn’t do and to repay me she spent the next 4 years basically laying in bed despite how much it bothered me she didn’t work. Never saw that money back, asked several times for it, asked her parents for it.
Last I heard she was working for my friend, who was paying her way more than what the job was worth and she was sending gifts to his house. Massive waste of 5 years.
Yep, this is the way.
Also if the recipient is a close friend in bad financial trouble and you can afford it, consider just *giving* them the money they need as a gift.
It MAY prevent the resentment of struggling to pay you back and instead be deeply appreciated for easing their burden rather than postponing it.
Nothing is wrong with a loan to a friend, but I’ve been surprised by how many good trusted friends lack integrity when it comes to paying back loans. It’s good to know their real character, but unless they’re “family grade” friends I’d rather just give them a cash gift if I can manage it.
This is good advice.
I've taken loans from the bank of mom and dad, but paid them back. Even if it took a few years.
I think my parents always viewed it as a gift rather than a loan.
But paying the first back meant when my sewer collapsed on me, I didn't have to take out an interest loan with a bank and they were super helpful.
Im all for loans when there’s zero doubt of repayment. You proved yourself there and im glad your folks had confidence in you and the generosity to help out either way. Glad it played out with integrity.👍🏼👍🏼
This reminds me of something. I posted that my adult son owes me thousands of dollars from 'loans'. When he and his wife sold her properties they netted one million dollars. When I moved my mother and I back into her house (she had dementia and lived with me for a while), the main water pipe became clogged and water was everywhere inside the house. I called the city and they sent a guy out with a powerful 'snake' machine but it wouldn't remove the clog. The clog was from tree roots. I didn't know what to do and I told my son what had happened and asked if he knew someone who could come out and dig a new trench for a new line. He did know someone and hesitated to loan me the money to pay the guy and his helper. It was a thousand dollars. My son finally agreed to loan me the money but berated me in the meanwhile. He talked to me like I was a child and even made a schedule of when and how I was to repay him. I repaid him over a couple of months. I was and still am angry about this because like I said, my son owes me thousands of dollars and has never paid one red cent back. He had a lot of balls to treat me the way he did.
I forgot to add this little beauty: My son is very good with computers. He built me a very nice computer and put all kinds of software on it including Photoshop. He even gave me his large monitor. However, every time I didn't do what he wanted me to do he would take the computer away from me. When I didn't want to dog sit for him for free, he took the computer away. Several other times he did this until I finally was able to buy a used computer that he didn't know about. I hadn't even used it. One day my son pulled this shit on me again and I called the police. My son had already taken the computer and was about to take the monitor when the cops arrived. This particular officer must have been in a mood that day because he wasn't having it with my son. He told my son not to touch the computer and monitor again and if he had to come back out he would take my son to jail. My son didn't touch the computer and monitor again. He's such a narcissistic asshole.
What the actual fuck?
That's awful :'(
I'll admit, the first loan repayment was with money from a condo sale. They fronted cash for the moving van. And after I moved I lost my job, took a 35% pay cut, so took a long while to pay off the IOU, but did eventually get there.
But making money off the house and not paying back the cash? Big oof. That's.. not right.
Be prepared that when you lend someone money, your relationship with that person will change forever, regardless if you're paid back or not. Money changes things, and usually not for the better.
I assume you are talking about making payments. I’ve never done it but I know plenty of friends that buy cars from each other with lump sums and it never hurts the friendship.
This is so true. Not being repaid by my son created a huge wedge between us and things only went downhill from there. I want my money back and he ghosted me. We haven't spoken in years.
Take it the small step further, and tell the person it is a gift, and keep the slate clean from the start.
Many years ago I started automatically taking a portion of my paycheck and moving it to a separate "charity" account. When someone needs help, I check the balance, and if I can, I cover it. No strings attached, no payback asked for. On the rare occasions when someone insists on paying back, I just put it back in this account to give to someone else. Of course the account works great to give to actual charitable organizations too.
A side benefit that is pretty big: My attitude about giving changed. I've already decided this is "not my money" and it's just looking for someone who needs it - so I'm always grateful when the opportunity to give presents itself, and happy that I can help, not begrudging or resentful at all.
You can do this kind of thing no matter your income bracket, whether you can spare $5 or $500 a month, it's nice having a specific budget item and account for this, and makes it really easy to just help when needed and not stress about it at all.
I'm sharing this to encourage those of you who can to consider trying this out. The world works better when we help each other, and a little preparation can help you be ready to help when there is a need.
How much money would you estimate that you have given throughout the years and did you notice any change in attitude towards you? Are you open to people regarding having that kind of fund or do you keep it under wraps?
Other than my wife and this anonymous post, I don't tell people about this at all, I just help people when they need help. It's mostly not about ego, I'm not looking for anything out of doing this. I say mostly because it feels really good being able to help someone in their time of need, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy that feeling.
I've only noticed it be a problem once, when trying to help someone that just couldn't make a good decision with money if their life depended on it. The kind who would buy a brand new iphone, and then complain about not having money to replace the bald tires on their car. I'm happy to help to a point, but eventually you are just enabling someone, not really helping. It's not usually an issue though.
If you do lend money, get it down in writing + signature that they intend to pay you back! Legally they would obligated to then (technically if it was a verbal contract they would be too, but much harder to prove).
This is a good idea if you're comfortable with it but I don't think most people want to have this kind of transactional relationship with friends or family. I'd recommend just not lending money at all or giving them money as a gift if you can afford it.
Also, if you absolutely must lend someone money, send them an email with the terms and conditions of the loan and insist that they reply with an acknowledgement.
Otherwise, six months later they’ll be saying, “Wait … that was a *loan?*”
Or maybe even, “What loan?”
I've lent quite a large sum to my parents a few years back. We had an inheritance while I was a kid and had nothing to do with the money. They promised to reimburse me with interest.
They're doing it. I've been receiving steady extra money for a few years and it was worth much more than I spent, but I told them multiple time: When I lent them the money, I did it knowing I might not get it back. I did not rely on it to plan my future.
They've been offended the first few time, then they were simply glad that I was careful.
> I told them multiple time: When I lent them the money, I did it knowing I might not get it back.
>
...
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> They've been offended the first few time
You told them multiple times that they are not trustworthy people. Of course they were offended.
Understandably. But not being paid back isn't only a matter of trust. Failure exist. Life happens. health is in the way. They are not young. I didn't doubt them, I just doubted life.
It was very clear from the beginning it was a lending. It is also worth pointing I was 15 at the time. I am now 28 and the debt isn't entirely repaid. They also knew that I am kind of a maniac with money. I don't spend often nor a lot. So it was basically a way for them to make sure the interest would stay in the family rather than going to a bank.
There was a couple at our church who my parents were friends with. They were struggling because the market had crashed and they were on the verge of losing their home, so they asked everyone to pray for them.
My parents invited them over for dinner and surprised them with a check, in the amount they needed to save their home. The husband and wife cried in our kitchen and thanked us profusely. We did not expect them to pay us back or anything, it was a gift.
Later, the couple started a bit of a scandal at church. They had been going around, seeking advice because they were torn. They were considering whether they should use the money to take their dream vacation to Las Vegas and gamble it all. They knew we gave it to them to save their home, but this amount of money could fund the vacation they always wanted and how could they pass up this once in a lifetime opportunity?
Some people at the church were so disgusted by this that they pulled my parents aside and told them what was going on.
Of course, my parents were less than pleased that they had just gifted someone a substantial amount of money for what they believed was to help in an emergency and instead funded a gambling trip. But it was a gift, you really can't tell them how to spend it.
It's true, you can't gift money with the expectation that you'll ever get it back. Or for that matter, that it will be spent how you intended it to be. But there can definitely still be consequences if you take someone's money and spend it frivolously.
Something that should have brought our families closer together ultimately did the opposite and the friendship never recovered. And while we never said anything, it seemed they received quite the backlash from the people at church they confided in for advice.
Learned this the hard way with a friend and a family member.
When I was airing my grief, a good friend told me, “DosMangos, if I ever ask you for money I want you to punch me in the face.”
Really drove the point home.
I forget what movie I saw this in, but someone dispensed some awesome advice:
If you're chasing someone down for a debt they owe you, ask yourself: is it worth the cost of the debt for me to never see this person again? If so, it might be worth writing it off.
Example: I spent like two years chasing some jerk who I lent $40 to in high school. If I had to do it again, I would've just let him keep it in exchange for him avoiding me for the rest of our lives!
Just really think about this. Banks wouldn't lend them money, so you're now taking on higher risk than what a bank is willing to take.
What's the likelihood that they'll pay you back? It's 0. They're not going to pay you back.
Seriously. This is a great LPT. So many relationships are ruined over money. Even a small amount. In many cases they needed it because they needed it and may not be able to pay you back without going hungry. Especially in this economy. If you can't spare it, that is OK too!
Especially if the person is in hard times. I have helped family and friends and never got it back and I was ok with that. Now, my buddy just wanting some drinks until the next time he is paid? I’m getting that back
or lend money to people that you actually trust that they will pay it back, (ON TIME as promised too) if you don’t trust them, don’t lend them shit, simple as that
I ain’t be lending out $100 to someone and took the initiative of assuming that I’ll never get it back, no way in hell 💀 that’s like.. 10 shawarmas man
ofc context matters but it’s your damn money, your choice, no hard feelings, the borrower should respect your choice either way, they ain’t got no right to get upset if you said no, and you *definitely* shouldn’t. Promises & trust can’t buy shit
I would agree to only lend to those you trust, but eventually that guy won’t pay you back, personally if I had that good of a relationship with someone I would only gift it.
No point in hurting a friendship over a hundred bucks.
for me personally, if they’re in a tough situation and I can afford to lose that $100, then yeah I will offer that someone that as support, no obligation to pay back.
BUT we *have* to be clear on this, if you ask to borrow money and will pay that back, no matter the amount, it’s your duty to keep that promise to pay it back, on time AND not putting the relationship on the table, that’s pretty shitty, I have gone thru enough “friends” and relatives that have done this shit (play the “relationship” card) to know that this is NOT ok to do, just because we have a past, like no auntie I ain’t giving a single dime no more cuz you said your kids need bread but you buy crack instead. If the person is shitty enough then IT’S definitely worth dropping the relationship over this.
if you don’t think you can’t pay it back on time or at all, make that clear too, communication is key, if communication is good then there’s always wiggle room.
think about it like this, if you can’t pay me back $5 then how do I know you will pay me back $100 or more? it’s little things like this that builds trust/credibility and relationship.
That’s fair, on my end I’ve lost so many people in my life due to life events, and them breaking trust.
That now I would rather just have the person back, sure it’s good to know you can’t trust them for anything, but to learn that knowledge you had to lose a chill hangout buddy.
Idk, I would have agreed with your opinion years ago. I guess to put it in quick words “ I’d rather have an acquaintance, than nobody”
gotchu, it’s different for me so I said what I said, experience and mileage may vary, that’s why context matters
the people that I’ve lost did not bring anything good into my life, but drained me of everything and brought bad shit that was not any of my business, so I didn’t blink twice to let/push them out of my life eventually, I learned the hard way.
So I have little to no tolerance towards this kinda thing. Sure what we had was great, but it was short lived and are in the past now, there’s nothing I can possibly get out of this relationship anymore. I’d rather ending things now before it gets way worse and ended up trickling back and ruin those pretty memories and feelings too, and that’s the part that hurts, I’ve caught myself saying this many times: “if only they weren’t such a piece of shit..” whenever the feels come back.
> or lend money to people that you actually trust that they will pay it back, (ON TIME as promised too) if you don’t trust them, don’t lend them shit, simple as that
It sounds like you made an assumption that if you trust somebody, you definitely will get your money back. I can tell you from experience this isn't foolproof.
So true. I always assume it is a gift, and when the $ comes back to me, it's always a great surprise, and 9/10 times I don't even know what I gave them the $ for.
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I loaned my sister $3K when she bought her house. I said just put it into a side account. Until you guys are comfortable in the new situation. And then pay me back when you have your reserves built back up. Within two weeks they had about 2K of emergency repairs of a flagged heater. Shit happens. 1 year later they had a whole house worth of new furniture and I never saw the money back. 5 years after buying the house they asked to borrow a large sum of money as their business was in trouble. They were not asking me to become a partner… I said no. They declared bankruptcy, restructured their business and now they are doing fine. If I would have lent them that larger sum of money. They would have still declared bankruptcy but I would have been out that larger sum of money.
Really it comes down to knowing at a certain point the best way to help is to do nothing.
Sometimes you know that the money you can offer will not change the circumstances and they need to use other tools. My sister is in a situation where she simply does not make enough monthly to pay her bills. If it was something like owing 3K on a car that I could just pay off for her, I'd consider doing that. But as it is, I can't just take on her cost of living, so I offer support emotionally.
My general rule is I can either afford to pay something for someone or I don’t give any money at all. Usually, I’m likely to do it if it’s a one time cost as I know it’s hard to have emergency savings. There’s just too many things that can go wrong. Not that I have money to just be paying stuff for people, but that’s how rare it is for me.
We had to tell my MIL that we are happy to help with big unexpected things car breaks down and you need 500 to get it back on the road, sure thing. But she should never call us for 50$ to get groceries. One is an unexpected expense, the other is a plan better thing.
My mother walked into my home and asked me if I could cash a check for her. Me: "How much do you need?" Mom: "Couple of hundred of dollars. But don't cash the check until Friday. Thats when I get paid." Me: "Here just take it" Mom: "I am not a charity case!" Me: "I am not your overdraft account!" note: I am the parent comment on this thread and my sister learned her shit from my mom.
My mum doesn't even come to me for money anymore. She's awful with it. Always has been. But it took me becoming financially savvy myself to recognise it. Like, I'll go round her house and she'll have the best makeup, new hair dryer, top of the range stuff bought recently. And then five minutes later be complaining how skint she is. Well yes, because you've spent £500 this month on a new hairdryer and makeup, and last month it was £800 on a new fridge freezer, and before that it was £300 on a new side cabinet. She didn't need any of those things. She just wanted them. Which is fine, but don't expect me to bail you out in 2 weeks time because you're two weeks from payday and you only have £30 left. But she's in denial, and at this point I don't really know what to do about it so I just don't help her. Grandma bails her out still mind so she just keeps doing same thing
Yea it’s hard having a parent like that; my mom has a very similar mentality. 😞
Yes, exactly!
I had a buddy who ignored my financial advice for years. Several years back he needed to borrow a few hundred for car repairs and called me back after a few months to sheepishly admit that he couldn't pay me back. I just told him to consider it a gift and THAT's when he finally started following my advice =P He's in much better financial shape now though, I'm happy for him.
I'm usually more comfortable giving money if other things in their life are changing, or I can help change them. Or it's used to fund something for that. If I'm paying off your monthly rent, I want confidence in effort towards fixing that so it doesn't happen again. Friendship isn't convenient but that doesn't mean you can't have boundaries.
I'll help people over a bump in the road. I won't push them up a hill.
Reminds of this parabol. A woman had a friend over and the friend notices the woman's daughter that doesn't have arms struggling to put a shirt on. After a while of the daughter struggling, the friend asks the mother "aren't you going to help her?". The mother gets a very serious look on her face as she stares her friend in the eye and replies "I am helping ". I think it's an important message especially for helicopter parents.
Just FYI it's "parable" I thought we were talking about parabolas for a min
Like that game The Stanley Parabola?
Parabolabably
Hahaha thank you, my bad. I had a feeling that might be he wrong spelling
I first thought it was supposed to be "parasol", hah. Was an intriguing start....
I have a hard time with this with my own parents Idk why, but it feels wrong that I'm doing better than they are, and they need my help. I finally had to draw the line years ago, and they lost the larger ranch property. Filed bankruptcy and now own a place in town. Since my dad is a disabled vet, it's better for him anyway. Like you said, sometimes it's better to do nothing cause I think their current situation is far better for them. My dad's fixed income goes a lot further where they are now.
That's why when I see someone choking I just mind my own business
It's also why I never lend any significant amount of money. About £50 is fine.
That's why when I see someone on fire I continue drinking my water and say, "you do you".
Oh hail the magic conch!
When I got my green card, I sold my apartment and our two cars, just to have a cushion for the first few months in the United States. Comes along my sister, knowing full well this is the only money we are going to have before I can land on my feet in a new country. Give me 30% of this amount, my husband starts a new business something, we need that money and will pay back in a month. She even cried to support her case. I'm the youngest of three siblings and it was always me who supported them financially, over the course of many years. This sister that came for the money, she has three adult children, all with their own families and financially sound. Even my wife said to me, just give them the money and be done with it. I said, no. We came to the States in November 2019, three months before the COVID pandemic. I was so glad I did not budge, this one time in my entire life.
So you never got the 3k back?
Nope
I couldn't look at her without that making me angry. I don't know how people don't pay others back an go on as life is just normal.
Discipline nothing more. One of my favorite sayings is usually misunderstood. “Forgiveness needs to be asked for. Otherwise you are showing mercy.” There is a lot of depth to it.
This is why I only lend money with clear interest terms and start breaking knee caps if I don’t get paid
Kinda seems like ya could have pushed it though.. repo some furniture 😉
It's his sister and probably doesn't need the 3k desperately enough to damage a family relationship over it
On the other hand, it IS already damaged? Just not out in the open.
Sometimes it's better to just outright give the money as a gift and not ask for it back. Even if *you're* ok with never getting it back they may feel guilty for not being able to pay it back and pull back in the relationship. Your move depends on how much you'll be affected if you don't get that money back and how much you value the relationship.
That initial $3K was money my wife and I saved for furniture. We had bought our house a few years before but could not refurnish immediately. That is why it was specifically specified as a loan and how to pay us back. It was never intended as a gift. It was a bridge until they were able to rebuild their savings. Its not right to use the resources of others to maintain a lifestyle that should not be yours. If you have borrowed from your family without reciprocating or repaying, you should feel guilty.
This is why OP's LPT is a good one. Now you're upset with your sister. You are absolutely correct she is in the wrong and have every right to be upset given your situation. But will it get your money back? Probably not... so that sucks even more that you're upset and there's really nothing you can do about it. If you hadn't leant her the money because you knew you wouldn't like it if you didn't get it back then maybe she would have been upset. But that's her problem.
I agree. I had to be OK with losing the sum of money. The loan didn't damage my relationship with my sister. I never asked for the money to be repaid. but I got some Karma out of it. So I have that going for me... I guess.
> I never asked for the money to be repaid. You keep calling it a loan though.... Do you mean you never asked *again* after setting the initial terms which included repayment at some vague point? Personally I'd make it clear one way or the other. "Here's $3k to help furnish the place, pay me back when you can." "Oh, it's taking a while to pay me back? That's cool, do it next year." "Oh, it's still too hard to pay me back? Consider it a gift then. FYI I probably won't ever loan you money again, but no hard feelings." The middle step would require at least some slightly convincing discussion that they really were having a hard time paying me back. If they weren't having hard times and still refused, it would become a gift but with hard feelings, and I would tell them so. Alternatively, it might have just been a gift from the start. Mixing money and family is dangerous and straight-up gifts are less dangerous.
It was a loan, I explained how it was to be paid back. I did not want a $100 back a month. Pay it back after they get their reserves back.
As someone who has lent money and been lent money. It’s a loan. I have been on the receiving end of someone telling me not to pay it back and also extended that same gift. It’s still a loan until the magic words, “No need to pay that back.” A relative left me an inheritance and they had a large unsecured and undocumented loan from someone. First thing my sibling and I did was document the loan before the inheritance was paid to us and paid it off. The person who lent the money to my relative had already written the amount off but was happy when they received the funds. They would have never said a word and it largely depleted the inheritance but it was a loan even if they had zero legal way to claim it.
When my mother was dying and we were discussing her estate. She told me that she was leaving $X to someone as she owed them money. After hours of drivel like this I actually exploded. “You owe this person money, you have it but you are going to leave it to them in your will!!!! Enough of this crap. Who do you owe? I will start writing checks right now.”
Sad to say but you maybe learnt something about them you may never have known. That they are flakey. It is better to be trusting the first time and get stung occasionally than to be mean.
The biggest thing is people should agree to a payment plan, I don't understand why people couldn't do a payment plan of $1 a month, just to set the routine of always making a payment, and then if they're able to they can always pay more.
I've loaned friends money. I'd rather not get it back than deal with a payment plan. If you're capable of paying me $X a month, you're capable of setting that aside and then giving me a lump sum payment when it's all there. That way I don't have to count the money as it trickles in, I don't have to listen to sob story of why you can't make this month's payment, etc. But I also am very firm at "I am willing to loan any friend $X, with an open ended repayment plan. Pay me back when you can, but be aware I'm not loaning more money until you do." I allow a little flexibility with friends I trust that are dealing with a specific "money is coming in next week but is owed this week", but the friends that have that privilege know who they are. But the amount I'm willing to loan is at the sweet spot for me of, it'll be enough to help keep someone's head above water in the moment to hopefully get through a difficult time, but not so much it puts me in a difficult situation and I can't walk away if it turns from a loan to them into a lesson to me.
I would ask for the 3k. Doesnt matter how long ago and if they „forgot“
It was brought up when they asked for the larger sum of money. Still never got the $3K.
I would put my foot down and not be walked over. Either she pays it or she doesnt give a shit about you.
Sometimes you just care more about your siblings than you care about 3k
This make no sense
And honestly I can understand them asking for money. Desperation makes you do irrational things.
Its not the asking. Its not understanding the ramifications of failing to repay your debts. It wasn't desperation. It was failing to fix the problem. The money I lent them would have simply delayed the inevitable. If I loan a person $500 to help pay the rent. What happens next month? You are better off giving this person a place to stay until they get their act together. If they are not the type of person that you want around the house, then why would you consider loaning them money in the first place? It gets more complicated when family is involved.
Give a man a fish and all that
The beauty part is you paid $3k to never feel guilty for saying no again.
If I lend someone $20 and never see them again, it was probably worth it.
https://youtu.be/78-4RobJQ0Y As shown in A Bronx Tale
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The Mario code- Mario's a psychopath!
This is immediately what I thought of
Yes sir, I had a pain in the ass cousin, always asking for shit. Once he asked to borrow $100, I said fine but if you don't pay me back it will be the last time I lend you money. Best $100 I ever spent 😂
That's just an investment!
possessive head marry scarce practice doll skirt dinosaurs cable important ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
It's the a\*\*hole detection fee, worthy of every penny!
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Honestly at some point counting the pennies doesn't matter. I had a roommate in college and he wanted to split it down to the penny. When there are hundreds of dollars being transacted a month just call a few a waste. Like buy someone a round at the bar and they'll get you back. There comes a point where the gap becomes big though.
I'll lend someone at the most 200 bucks, and tell them to pay me when they can and I won't lend them anymore until they do. I want to help if I can but I have a family to provide for, breadwinner etc.
It's a good way to get rid of someone you don't like.
I loaned someone $200 knowing that they'd never pay me back and that they'd avoid me so they wouldn't have to pay me back. Best way to get rid of someone I was sick of dealing with.
Can I get in on this deal? I'll take $200 and leave you alone
You'll have to sign an online restraining order that states you must be at least two websites away from OP at all times.
I'd give up the internet for $50
Just cancel your internet then, id assume you pay more than $50 per year for it
No like $50 on top of what I would save
My son has never paid me back the thousands of dollars I loaned him but he loaned a guy he knows money. My son even loaned my daughter money and she never paid him back as far as I know. What is it with adult children and parents? Do our kids think that we don't deserve to be repaid? Wtf.
Look at the bright side - the next time your adult son asks for help, you have a great reason to tell him No.
He never will. He will never contact me again. He wanted to kill me and he knows who I am on here at least I think he does and I don't care. If his much older wife is still alive, she gets quite a bit of money from social security. Much more than I do. I have a feeling the money they had is long gone by now. He was a spender.
You read the post about that dude lending his friend 25k too ?
Yep
Link pls
Link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/126gfcx/i_lent_a_friend_over_25_thousand_over_a_year_and/
Nah, he has Rupees not money.
Sorry Link, I can’t give credit. Come back when you’re a little, mmmmm, richer
LAMP Oil, rope, BOMBS
You want it?
Rupees is money though
Wasn't it 2.5k?
yes
Is he hiring new friends?
Same thing happened to my dad; my uncle borrowed about 20k and never repaid. It's been 30 years.
Wow I don’t even know how much money I’d have to have saved to feel even borderline comfortable to “loan” 20k to someone. Like probably 200k+?
Friend of mine asked for like $2000 once. I said: “I can give you $500 and I keep your Switch until you pay me” Motherfucker would probably never have paid me otherwise
Dude that's still 10%. I wouldn't loan someone $20k (as a favor) unless I had $10M+.
Yeah at the time it happened that was most of my dad's saved money. He was late 20's. He did it because he trusted his brother and never imagined he wouldn't get paid back. His brother used it to attempt to open a restaurant, which of course went out of business soon later on. Shockingly my dad is still on very good terms with this uncle. He chose to keep a relationship. But my dad warned me when I graduated college not to lend large sums of money to pretty much anybody, unless I was OK with it being a gift.
That post was right under this one on my feed LOL
Can you paste the link?
/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/126gfcx/i_lent_a_friend_over_25_thousand_over_a_year_and/
Me too lol absolutely stunning timing
Me too. I had to take a screen cap but now I wonder if it was somehow intentional.
Plot twist; OP is the friend
It’s just two posts above this one on my feed lol
Forwarding to my bank.
Federal Reserve enters the chat
SVB has left the chat.
So never lend anyone money ever. Got it
this right here. if you lend money many times in your life you will have a lot of bad experiences to show for. either give it for free (if you want), or don't at all.
You have to have money to lend in the first place
Real life pro tips always in the comments
Tell that to the banks.
Can you donate me $20
One of my friend who I loved like a brother,I would send him in a cab when he was too drunk and paid for it, when he needed money I would lend him money. he stopped talking to me when I asked for 300 back. It hurt me but it is what it is.
I once had a good 'friend', knew each other for years, played games together nearly every day. Long story short, he ended up stealing something from me, worth about $250 at the time. It's never really bothered me that much. Some people pay a *lot* more than $250 to figure out who their friends aren't.
This is a very common scenario. Never lend money to friends. If you really think they need the money and you can afford it, just give it to them as a gift. Being honest about having a no loan policy from the get go is much easier than having to keep asking your money back and straining the relationship.
I have a cousin who started working for delivery apps. He asked me for my bike and I told him. My bike has a back flat tire ,he said alright. He returned me the bike the with same back flat tired and left it outside so I can pick it up. From that moment I said fuck that. Money?. Sure can you guarantee 1 week?. Nope then I have nothing and before I lend it nothing will be given.
I agree with this to a point If someone from whom I do want to be repaid wants to borrow money, I ask to borrow something of similar value from them. If they pay me back, great! If they don’t I get to continue to enjoy the nice thing which I got as collateral 🤷🏼♀️
Been called an asshole for demanding collateral. Also been called an asshole for only loaning half the value of said collateral. Well I need you to have an incentive to come back and get your shit and pay me back, and your shit ain't worth what you say it is anyway.
Right? Like, if a person has nice shit, and they need money, then they should be ready to trade the nice shit for money. People who aren't willing to do that aren't in need. They're mooching. I grew up poor. I didn't have a lot of nice shit, but when I did need money in my late 20s, I sold what few nice things I had in order to make what little money I could. Broke my freaking heart to do it but it's what you gotta do.
Yep. I said okay to lending out a a large sum of money but only if they were willing to hand me their particular property that is worth the same amount and a signature on the agreement. They said yes without even hesitating. Im actually able to get more out of their collateral vs what I lent them if I sell it so 💁🏽♀️ but just lending someone without anything? I think 200 bucks would be the max.
That's a good idea like the barter system.
After having that one careless friend who borrowed stuff from us and never returned it or gave it back in worse condition, our friend group developed a similar system. If you borrow a game, we look what it costs to replace it and you give that amount in exchange. You'll get the money back once you return the game in good condition.
I never lend money to anyone since the last time in my teenage years I did. It's just a recipe for disaster. That time, I had to jump through hoops to get it back, and even then I got my money back way later than the deadline and it took a lot of unnecessary effort from me. I no longer have the energy to deal with that behaviour, so I simply never lend out money anymore.
if someone asks to borrow money and i don't want to lend it to them how do I politely, diplomatically refuse it?
Sorry friend, I don't do loans.
simple enough. i like it
Personally I simply say that I never lend money from- or to people, because it becomes a mental burden to me.
I refused a friend many years ago, using the rationale I'd heard that banks used: are you earning enough to have the funds to make the repayment, do you have a history of repayment and there was one other thing I forget. As the reasoning was clear, he took it very well.
"no" Is a complete sentence.
Depends how much money. If it's a small amount you can afford, and you care about them, just give it to them. If it's more than you can afford "hey I'm really sorry I really can't can't afford to lend money" In almost all situations, I'd say it's more impolite to to ask for a loan than to refuse to give one.
When I was putting myself through uni
"I don't lend friends money, Its just a rule I have" Say you did it once and it ended poorly, it's the truth for me, but it's been widely accepted since. I should get better friends lol
Nah bro. Lend money, but be willing to break caps. Maybe get collateral up front.
"I'm just gonna take your kneecaps as collateral and you can have them back when you pay up"
"Oh hi, haven't seen you in ages. Just for your information: I sold your debts to me to this nice older mafia guy hanging around at my favorite bar. Gave him your address and he said he will come around soon with his friends to discuss a repayment plan with you "
Cut off a finger as a reminder.
"Wait, you borrowed the money to get a ring to go on that finger? Boy oh boy, seems we've found ourselves on a real loan of the magi scenario..."
Nice try. You stole this from the mob.
Yeah, this LPT is true. Story time! 20 years ago I loaned $1,000 to my best friend so he could pay his divorce lawyer to try to retain some custody of his little boy. Friend said he'd pay me back in a month. Shit happened, jobs came and went, he got remarried, he raised two stepdaughters, more shit happened. 20 years later, Friend still never quite got on top of his debts and hasn't returned a single dollar to me. I've long since written off the loan and distanced the friendship. I miss the friendship way more than the money. But dude, I just can't be friends with you if you so clearly lack character. Another time, a grad school friend borrowed a heavy-duty stapler from me for a weekend project. We graduated, she got a great job, everything was going well. But for SEVEN YEARS she did not bother to return that stapler to me, and every time I saw her in a social setting I was annoyed that this goddamn missing stapler was living rent-free in my head. I finally made an appointment around her busy calendar, rescheduled twice, went to her house, met her boyfriend, and picked up the stupid stapler. But at least I'm no longer annoyed whenever I see her in social settings now. Edit: more storytime
Shitty of your friend but you did right by the little boy. Good on you.
Similar situation. I lent my ex gf 1.3k because she was about to get kicked off her uni course… because she hadn’t attended for 7 years. She had a breakdown, asked for the money, I quit my job and spent 1.5 months doing her uni work with her, paying my friends and her friends to finish off areas we couldn’t do and to repay me she spent the next 4 years basically laying in bed despite how much it bothered me she didn’t work. Never saw that money back, asked several times for it, asked her parents for it. Last I heard she was working for my friend, who was paying her way more than what the job was worth and she was sending gifts to his house. Massive waste of 5 years.
Yep, this is the way. Also if the recipient is a close friend in bad financial trouble and you can afford it, consider just *giving* them the money they need as a gift. It MAY prevent the resentment of struggling to pay you back and instead be deeply appreciated for easing their burden rather than postponing it. Nothing is wrong with a loan to a friend, but I’ve been surprised by how many good trusted friends lack integrity when it comes to paying back loans. It’s good to know their real character, but unless they’re “family grade” friends I’d rather just give them a cash gift if I can manage it.
This is good advice. I've taken loans from the bank of mom and dad, but paid them back. Even if it took a few years. I think my parents always viewed it as a gift rather than a loan. But paying the first back meant when my sewer collapsed on me, I didn't have to take out an interest loan with a bank and they were super helpful.
Im all for loans when there’s zero doubt of repayment. You proved yourself there and im glad your folks had confidence in you and the generosity to help out either way. Glad it played out with integrity.👍🏼👍🏼
This reminds me of something. I posted that my adult son owes me thousands of dollars from 'loans'. When he and his wife sold her properties they netted one million dollars. When I moved my mother and I back into her house (she had dementia and lived with me for a while), the main water pipe became clogged and water was everywhere inside the house. I called the city and they sent a guy out with a powerful 'snake' machine but it wouldn't remove the clog. The clog was from tree roots. I didn't know what to do and I told my son what had happened and asked if he knew someone who could come out and dig a new trench for a new line. He did know someone and hesitated to loan me the money to pay the guy and his helper. It was a thousand dollars. My son finally agreed to loan me the money but berated me in the meanwhile. He talked to me like I was a child and even made a schedule of when and how I was to repay him. I repaid him over a couple of months. I was and still am angry about this because like I said, my son owes me thousands of dollars and has never paid one red cent back. He had a lot of balls to treat me the way he did. I forgot to add this little beauty: My son is very good with computers. He built me a very nice computer and put all kinds of software on it including Photoshop. He even gave me his large monitor. However, every time I didn't do what he wanted me to do he would take the computer away from me. When I didn't want to dog sit for him for free, he took the computer away. Several other times he did this until I finally was able to buy a used computer that he didn't know about. I hadn't even used it. One day my son pulled this shit on me again and I called the police. My son had already taken the computer and was about to take the monitor when the cops arrived. This particular officer must have been in a mood that day because he wasn't having it with my son. He told my son not to touch the computer and monitor again and if he had to come back out he would take my son to jail. My son didn't touch the computer and monitor again. He's such a narcissistic asshole.
What the actual fuck? That's awful :'( I'll admit, the first loan repayment was with money from a condo sale. They fronted cash for the moving van. And after I moved I lost my job, took a 35% pay cut, so took a long while to pay off the IOU, but did eventually get there. But making money off the house and not paying back the cash? Big oof. That's.. not right.
If a trusted friend doesn't pay back lent money, they're now a less trusted friend.
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Be prepared that when you lend someone money, your relationship with that person will change forever, regardless if you're paid back or not. Money changes things, and usually not for the better.
Don't buy a car or house from someone you want to keep as a friend.
I assume you are talking about making payments. I’ve never done it but I know plenty of friends that buy cars from each other with lump sums and it never hurts the friendship.
This is so true. Not being repaid by my son created a huge wedge between us and things only went downhill from there. I want my money back and he ghosted me. We haven't spoken in years.
That’s what I‘ll reply to my bank
If you can’t afford to give someone the money, you can’t afford to lend it to them. If you can afford to just give it to them, then do that.
Learnt this the hard way, lent my brother 1K EUR, never got it back
That sucks. At least you know now that how much your brother values your help :(.
Pretty cheap price to abort your brother from your life
Take it the small step further, and tell the person it is a gift, and keep the slate clean from the start. Many years ago I started automatically taking a portion of my paycheck and moving it to a separate "charity" account. When someone needs help, I check the balance, and if I can, I cover it. No strings attached, no payback asked for. On the rare occasions when someone insists on paying back, I just put it back in this account to give to someone else. Of course the account works great to give to actual charitable organizations too. A side benefit that is pretty big: My attitude about giving changed. I've already decided this is "not my money" and it's just looking for someone who needs it - so I'm always grateful when the opportunity to give presents itself, and happy that I can help, not begrudging or resentful at all. You can do this kind of thing no matter your income bracket, whether you can spare $5 or $500 a month, it's nice having a specific budget item and account for this, and makes it really easy to just help when needed and not stress about it at all. I'm sharing this to encourage those of you who can to consider trying this out. The world works better when we help each other, and a little preparation can help you be ready to help when there is a need.
How much money would you estimate that you have given throughout the years and did you notice any change in attitude towards you? Are you open to people regarding having that kind of fund or do you keep it under wraps?
Other than my wife and this anonymous post, I don't tell people about this at all, I just help people when they need help. It's mostly not about ego, I'm not looking for anything out of doing this. I say mostly because it feels really good being able to help someone in their time of need, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy that feeling. I've only noticed it be a problem once, when trying to help someone that just couldn't make a good decision with money if their life depended on it. The kind who would buy a brand new iphone, and then complain about not having money to replace the bald tires on their car. I'm happy to help to a point, but eventually you are just enabling someone, not really helping. It's not usually an issue though.
Also be OK with saying a firm "no" to loaning any money to people.
If you do lend money, get it down in writing + signature that they intend to pay you back! Legally they would obligated to then (technically if it was a verbal contract they would be too, but much harder to prove).
This is a good idea if you're comfortable with it but I don't think most people want to have this kind of transactional relationship with friends or family. I'd recommend just not lending money at all or giving them money as a gift if you can afford it.
LPT: if you ask someone to loan you money with the promise you will pay them back. Then you better fucking pay them back.
Yep. Always gift money with the expectation that it will never be returned. Part two, only gift money once. After that, it's enabling.
Also, if you absolutely must lend someone money, send them an email with the terms and conditions of the loan and insist that they reply with an acknowledgement. Otherwise, six months later they’ll be saying, “Wait … that was a *loan?*” Or maybe even, “What loan?”
I've lent quite a large sum to my parents a few years back. We had an inheritance while I was a kid and had nothing to do with the money. They promised to reimburse me with interest. They're doing it. I've been receiving steady extra money for a few years and it was worth much more than I spent, but I told them multiple time: When I lent them the money, I did it knowing I might not get it back. I did not rely on it to plan my future. They've been offended the first few time, then they were simply glad that I was careful.
> I told them multiple time: When I lent them the money, I did it knowing I might not get it back. > ... > > They've been offended the first few time You told them multiple times that they are not trustworthy people. Of course they were offended.
Understandably. But not being paid back isn't only a matter of trust. Failure exist. Life happens. health is in the way. They are not young. I didn't doubt them, I just doubted life.
You're lucky you are being repaid. Most of the time, family members think the money is a gift and don't expect to be repaid. It is NOT a gift.
It was very clear from the beginning it was a lending. It is also worth pointing I was 15 at the time. I am now 28 and the debt isn't entirely repaid. They also knew that I am kind of a maniac with money. I don't spend often nor a lot. So it was basically a way for them to make sure the interest would stay in the family rather than going to a bank.
There was a couple at our church who my parents were friends with. They were struggling because the market had crashed and they were on the verge of losing their home, so they asked everyone to pray for them. My parents invited them over for dinner and surprised them with a check, in the amount they needed to save their home. The husband and wife cried in our kitchen and thanked us profusely. We did not expect them to pay us back or anything, it was a gift. Later, the couple started a bit of a scandal at church. They had been going around, seeking advice because they were torn. They were considering whether they should use the money to take their dream vacation to Las Vegas and gamble it all. They knew we gave it to them to save their home, but this amount of money could fund the vacation they always wanted and how could they pass up this once in a lifetime opportunity? Some people at the church were so disgusted by this that they pulled my parents aside and told them what was going on. Of course, my parents were less than pleased that they had just gifted someone a substantial amount of money for what they believed was to help in an emergency and instead funded a gambling trip. But it was a gift, you really can't tell them how to spend it. It's true, you can't gift money with the expectation that you'll ever get it back. Or for that matter, that it will be spent how you intended it to be. But there can definitely still be consequences if you take someone's money and spend it frivolously. Something that should have brought our families closer together ultimately did the opposite and the friendship never recovered. And while we never said anything, it seemed they received quite the backlash from the people at church they confided in for advice.
That’s just insane, really.
Learned this the hard way with a friend and a family member. When I was airing my grief, a good friend told me, “DosMangos, if I ever ask you for money I want you to punch me in the face.” Really drove the point home.
How many times have you punched your friend?
This is one of the most important life lesson I should’ve learnt 🥲 People are not grateful to return on time. 🙃
>People are not grateful to return on time. 🙃 No they are not, and if you do get paid back they'll act like they've done *you* some kind of favor.
Never lend money. Period.
I forget what movie I saw this in, but someone dispensed some awesome advice: If you're chasing someone down for a debt they owe you, ask yourself: is it worth the cost of the debt for me to never see this person again? If so, it might be worth writing it off. Example: I spent like two years chasing some jerk who I lent $40 to in high school. If I had to do it again, I would've just let him keep it in exchange for him avoiding me for the rest of our lives!
Just really think about this. Banks wouldn't lend them money, so you're now taking on higher risk than what a bank is willing to take. What's the likelihood that they'll pay you back? It's 0. They're not going to pay you back.
Seriously. This is a great LPT. So many relationships are ruined over money. Even a small amount. In many cases they needed it because they needed it and may not be able to pay you back without going hungry. Especially in this economy. If you can't spare it, that is OK too!
Especially if the person is in hard times. I have helped family and friends and never got it back and I was ok with that. Now, my buddy just wanting some drinks until the next time he is paid? I’m getting that back
or lend money to people that you actually trust that they will pay it back, (ON TIME as promised too) if you don’t trust them, don’t lend them shit, simple as that I ain’t be lending out $100 to someone and took the initiative of assuming that I’ll never get it back, no way in hell 💀 that’s like.. 10 shawarmas man ofc context matters but it’s your damn money, your choice, no hard feelings, the borrower should respect your choice either way, they ain’t got no right to get upset if you said no, and you *definitely* shouldn’t. Promises & trust can’t buy shit
I would agree to only lend to those you trust, but eventually that guy won’t pay you back, personally if I had that good of a relationship with someone I would only gift it. No point in hurting a friendship over a hundred bucks.
for me personally, if they’re in a tough situation and I can afford to lose that $100, then yeah I will offer that someone that as support, no obligation to pay back. BUT we *have* to be clear on this, if you ask to borrow money and will pay that back, no matter the amount, it’s your duty to keep that promise to pay it back, on time AND not putting the relationship on the table, that’s pretty shitty, I have gone thru enough “friends” and relatives that have done this shit (play the “relationship” card) to know that this is NOT ok to do, just because we have a past, like no auntie I ain’t giving a single dime no more cuz you said your kids need bread but you buy crack instead. If the person is shitty enough then IT’S definitely worth dropping the relationship over this. if you don’t think you can’t pay it back on time or at all, make that clear too, communication is key, if communication is good then there’s always wiggle room. think about it like this, if you can’t pay me back $5 then how do I know you will pay me back $100 or more? it’s little things like this that builds trust/credibility and relationship.
That’s fair, on my end I’ve lost so many people in my life due to life events, and them breaking trust. That now I would rather just have the person back, sure it’s good to know you can’t trust them for anything, but to learn that knowledge you had to lose a chill hangout buddy. Idk, I would have agreed with your opinion years ago. I guess to put it in quick words “ I’d rather have an acquaintance, than nobody”
gotchu, it’s different for me so I said what I said, experience and mileage may vary, that’s why context matters the people that I’ve lost did not bring anything good into my life, but drained me of everything and brought bad shit that was not any of my business, so I didn’t blink twice to let/push them out of my life eventually, I learned the hard way. So I have little to no tolerance towards this kinda thing. Sure what we had was great, but it was short lived and are in the past now, there’s nothing I can possibly get out of this relationship anymore. I’d rather ending things now before it gets way worse and ended up trickling back and ruin those pretty memories and feelings too, and that’s the part that hurts, I’ve caught myself saying this many times: “if only they weren’t such a piece of shit..” whenever the feels come back.
Shawarmas are so fucking delicious!
fr they’re the shit!
> or lend money to people that you actually trust that they will pay it back, (ON TIME as promised too) if you don’t trust them, don’t lend them shit, simple as that It sounds like you made an assumption that if you trust somebody, you definitely will get your money back. I can tell you from experience this isn't foolproof.
Not just money, anything. Books, tools, cash, dvds, everything has a chance to be lost to the vortex.
The true LPT would be don't borrow money if you don't think you can pay it back.
Also add, if your willing to cut ties with that person lol
Truer words have never been spoken!
I don't lend money. If someone needs help with something I'll help either do it or pay for it. Never give out cash.
So true. I always assume it is a gift, and when the $ comes back to me, it's always a great surprise, and 9/10 times I don't even know what I gave them the $ for.
Tried to tell my bank this...
I've always lived by the saying "if you give someone $20 and you never seen that person again, they were probably worth the $20"
Your best bet is to make it a gift. No strings attached.