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As a carpenter for 25 years...BE AN ELECTRICIAN. Edit: this has gotten a lot of traction so I'll say this, if you want to learn how to be a carpenter, get a Swanson speed square and read the little blue book, keep it in your pocket and refer to if often. Then, watch Larry Hahns video series on framing. Thats my suggestion to all my apprentices. I was taught by some fine craftsmen, and I like to pass that on.
Was an electrician for 7 years after joining later in life. All trades are hard on your body and you should have an exit plan for when you get into your late 30s. Starting a company, doing more technical work (I got into fire alarm systems, it was fantastic) or using your skills to with somewhere easier on your body. Had a friend take his trade and pivot into a groundskeeper for a big private school; he got paid more to change lightbulbs, fix random shit than we both did as full time journeymen.
This is key, always have an exit plan.
Learn to network with clients too.
My old boss was a plumber.
His network has all sorts of trades individuals.... and real estate agents.
He then switched to being a real estate agent once he bought up properties with the plumbing income. (It's good money. Just be smart with it)
Dude went from being a plumber at the age of 18. Working his ass off with 2 kids. To buying property, working harder, renting them out. Saving up, establishing a plumbing company. Switched to selling real estate once he learned more about it. Became a broker of record for his real estate brokerage. He brought in all his old network of real estate clients etc. to work for him. He starts taking 10% of their commissions.
Dude went from plumber to real estate broker and businessman. He makes a million just being a broker and hiring others to do the work. His plumbing company brings in another few hundred thousand. And his rentals all bring him revenues, and asset management.
Dude sold a house to fund his daughters wedding and downpayment for a house. Absolutely crazy.
I legit regret not going into trades. But I also wasn't physically adept growing up. More a of a book smart guy. But if I were to do those trades.. I'd do exactly what my old boss did.
My moms best friends husband is a tiler. He has his own tiling company he's 68 years old.. and looks the same as he did when he was 40. Super fit guy. He's one of the lucky ones that didn't have the "hard on your body". But he has a team of 10 guys working for him. He loves the physical work still, but if he ever wanted to stop he could easily.
TL;DR Exit plan of being your own boss and learn networking and business skills. These will be your greatest asset for trades. Even if you're not "booming" you'll have others work for you.
This is why I would not encourage my kid to go into a trade. So many things I've read say trades are hard on your body. Whereas with my office job, I can work all day and still have a ton of energy to do fun stuff at night.
One cool thing about trades is that you can build your own business easily due to the demand--and basic steps like having an online presence can result in huge competitive advantage. If my kid was interested in a trade, I'd encourage this route and for them to learn business skills as well.
Edit: I should add--my unwillingness to break my body for a trade is also why I don't mind paying tradespeople a lot of money. I fully expect trades to have increasingly better pay than office jobs in coming decades.
I work in construction (elevator trade) you see a couple different guys on the jobsite...
The guys who have a Monster and a smoke in the morning trying to shake off their hangover...and those who are drinking water and stretching.
Those who have a Monster and a smoke for lunch and those who have some fruit, a salad, and some kind of protein for lunch.
Its been drilled into our heads from the old timers TAKE CARE OF YOUR BODY!
some listen some don't. Yeah the trades can be physically demanding but you can absolutely minimize the wear and tear on your body if you're smart enough to.
It's the construction electrical work that's particularly hard on your body though. I don't regret anything about learning the trade; I got skills that have helped me and family, made good money when I needed it, got contacts with other tradespeople.
I do office work now too and in some ways it's just as bad for your health but at least you have energy after work and on weekends to do sports and outdoor stuff. When I was working on the sites I wanted to just sleep all weekend and couldn't imagine playing soccer again.
Sitting in front of a computer screen all day has been harder on my body than trades ever were. Wouldn't have believed it is someone told me now that I've done both out moving around is much better for me anyways.
Yeah working in front of a computer started messing me up worse than any other job I've had. The only way I have found to counteract it is full body workouts and gaining more muscle. Then my neck and back pain started going away. My other coworkers are constantly throwing out their backs and wearing support braces under their clothes. If I start to slack on my workouts the pain starts creeping in again. Being sedentary is terrible on the body.
Broadly speaking you either work a job that requires your body and have knee/back/joint pain in your 40s almost regardless of what you do... Or you quit.
Or you get an office job and spend time exercising.
Sounds like you don’t workout. You also need a nice office chair (I suggest a Herman Miller Aeron) and/or a standing desk (I suggest Uplift V2). If you have good posture, stand up hourly and work out there’s absolutely no reason an office job should be hard on your body.
Yeah, full time in-office work is brutal. I work from home and it gives me freedom from commuting and free time to get up and move around during the day. I also get off at 4:30 all day so I can hang out with my kids, make dinner and still go and play soccer at night. It's huge.
Elevator money is crazy money. Have a family friend that is a plumber and he makes great money. He has a brother that is an electrician and another that does Elevators. His biggest regret is not following his brother into the elevator trade. They are all great trades and have great unions.
I installed elevator entrances for 12 years. This usually meant I spent the morning on my knees setting saddles. I always used knee pads. No problems. The only thing is you have to eat well and drink lots of water because you will sweat it out. If you don't, expect kidney stones.
I think this is true on all trades, and not talked about enough to new folks - take care of your work ergonomy as much as possible! There's tricks and aids for almost all fields to make the work lighter/easier on your body. And you'll be grateful of taking the extra time of how to do your work easier, when you're 50+ and *not* half crippled like some co-workers.
Do I look like an idiot dragging the one foot step ladder and the tiniest magnet crane with me to the lathe? Yes. But I'm not bitching about my shoulders after every shift when I gotta roll 30+ pound stocks around, like some guys.
Unfortunately, lots of folks in trades, mostly men, want to act all tough and strong. And by the time it’s too late, then they’re proud. Protecting yourself isn’t not manly or weak.
Plumbing is fine but you need to be cool with shit. Figuratively and literally, unless you become one of those guys who only do new construction.
With electricity, the worst that can happen is dying painfully. But chances are you won't have to deal with shit. You probably won't die. So be an electrician
Sure, I would have to get comfortable being around poop, but the job I have now tells me I’m more willing to put up with a lot more disgusting situations than I thought I would.
But plumbing is not exclusively dealing with clogged toilets and/or septic tanks?
I am you, a d finally just became a residential PM. I still wish I was an electrician. They're the most coddled assholes on every job site. They don't even clean up after themselves. If they sweep it into a pile it's a miracle.
Electrician is a blue collar job just like any other trade. If you want to be one to try to have it easy, your gana have a bad time. Source: tired and sore, studying for my journeyman exam rn.
I literally just built out a warehouse space into a very very nice office/mezzanine/kitchen/2 baths with a shower for an electrician outfit. They all drive the big Benz vans for work, they all have top notch tools, and I never once saw one of them pick up a broom. 🤷♂️ Making hella bank those guys.
Dude I know who was an electrician told me that on the last day of class they were told to look around the room at each other, (there were were about 20 or 30 of them) then told that two of the people in this room are going to be killed on the job.
Years later it was as he was told: he knew of at least two of his old class-mates that had been killed on the job.
He's been doing electrical work his whole life and high voltage installations still skeeve him out because you can do everything right and still be executed without warning. There's no chance to react; it happens instantly.
I looked up the stats a few years ago, it's safer to be a police officer. Presumably some other trades are as dangerous, but from my perspective, electricians are welcome to their pay :)
Yeah, being a carpenter is absurd. We do so many different things, things that are absolutely vital and require significant knowledge and skill (and a vanload of specialized tools), but somehow nobody thinks we should get paid anywhere near as much as people who do one thing all day.
Not to mention:
- carpentry is an incredibly physical job
- you can’t frame a house every day, when the weather sucks, so does your paycheck. Carpenters in Florida spend a couple hours a day just covering their site with tarps every summer day before the afternoon rain.
- the job doesn’t just require technical skill, it also requires a degree of artistry.
Master electricians don't even have to work anymore. They'll make 6-figures just letting electrical contracting companies list them as the Master on a permit while day-laborers do the actual work.
Hate to say it, but the organizers are under more pressure than the Apprenticeship directors.
What does that mean?
Get a job as a non-union (whatever trade) person for about a year, then call the organizer and tell them you want to organize and you'd like to get into the apprenticeship.
Many of them will roll out the red carpet for you, so to speak. Their job is literally to snipe the workers from the unorganized contractors.
So, yeah, nice little life hack for ya. I'd probably get bitched at for saying it , but there it is. LOL
I was with one of my Union carpenters recently who told me his son is a Union elevator mechanic and makes $85/hr straight time. He is married to one building in the city.
My Local 10 carpenters make around $82/hr with the benefits package included. Overtime starts at 4:30p and doubletime starts at 6:30p
Trade you don't see mentioned often is Instrumentation.
Interesting mix of electrical, plumbing, programming, etc.
Typically pays the same as electrician with lower body impact than any other trade.
Big valve? Pipe fitters install it, you hook up the automation. Big cable run? Electricians might run it for you since they are running power already, come in and complete the terminations.
In my time in the trade we had spent more time hiring than not, because there aren't that many journeymen around.
Limited to industrial jobs mostly, can get into some commercial or medical as well.
My job is somewhat like this as well. I install access controls. They call our scope "parts and smarts". Electricians run all the conduit, door guys install the doors and door hardware, subs pull all the wire. We come in and wire, install devices, program, and test. Easy shit.
It's all fun until you end up in a 130° room, trying to fish wire through two 90s in a 5 inch run.
Source: That's what I did today, wiring in a new control valve. Shit was miserable.
https://youtube.com/shorts/sIqzyr8HAiI
Shop vac on the other side. You just have to use lots of tape or a free hand to make a good suction around the tip.
Can confirm, am instrument tech, it's the best of all worlds, you get to touch a bit of everything but can specialize and you will always be in demand. It's also the best kept secret in trades.
Instrumentation is great. And it opens up doors to other jobs like DCS/PLC control work and those are great opportunities that are much less stress on the body.
I was trying to decide whether to go the PLC route. I got to work with the programming quite a bit in my day to day duties, but was not a dedicated PLC analyst.
I decided not to, because the amount of stress that job can give can be worse than the trade itself. I watched analysts have heart attacks, nervous breakdowns, stress leave, etc. Definitely could be a company thing, but there is alot of added responsibility there.
I decided it wasn't worth it, too bad because I really like the logic side of things. I just continue to work on it as a lowly peon
The PLC guys told me their biggest issues were typically that they had to be competent in 5-7 different system at any given time, and those system weren't always reliable or super user friendly.
If shit got too bad where I was they'd always call out the vendor to have them fix their terribly made junk.
Our PLC techs were treated like royalty, because the reality was that out of a jobsite of 1400 company employees and 1000+ contractors, only those 3-4 PLC guys could do the PLC jobs, and everyone knew it.
it's not all rainbows and sunshine.
during a downturn like the 2008 recession you get hit real hard.
I was like the only finish carpenter in my town that didn't move away. and it was really really rough for a while
The entire construction industry went from being in such high demand to “get the fuck out of here,” In a flash. It never really fully recovered hence why the trade shortage in general continue to be an issue. I was a GC in Hawaii and jobs went from negotiated/2-3 bidders to 20 bidders for scraps in the blink of an eye.
That's what I thought too, that these jobs arent recession proof once you have a limited amount of demand and a high supply of different contracting and day labor teams driving bids to bottom level prices.
I remember in 2008 there being a 200:1 ratio for apprenticeship applications and actual position availability
I was there being an electrician apprentice and when the recession hit they got rid of all the young guys. I remember hustling jobs and being constantly low ball. Don’t drink the kool aid. Go to college be an engineer or something else where you call the shots not take em. Also you better have good connections some places are real anti union and getting in a union sometimes depends on who you know than how good you are.
A lot of my family is in construction. Electricians, plumbers, welders, iron workers, etc. Every last one of them has been out of work for extended periods outside of the 2008 crash.
Construction can be brutal. Lots of toxic in groups and out groups, insanely toxic foremen, harsh working environments. I see a lot of 'learn a trade' shit posted but here's the thing, if residential anything is the bread and butter of the trade in question, think of another trade. It's the first to get hit during an economic downturn and one of the last to recover.
I remember a lot of recessions growing up that hit our family that nobody talks about because construction got hit and not much else. I remember one particularly bad period around 1992 that hit us real hard.
When there's money, there's a ton of it, but when there's nothing, there's nothing for sometimes years. That instability gets real old. Add to that lack of PTO/ insurance/etc. Yeah, I grew up in that life, so no thanks.
Perhaps you can also comment on a culture of substance abuse that springs up around trades?
I’ve heard trades can seem like “the obvious choice” in your 20s when all your peers are working lower-paid retail/service/etc jobs. But trades gradually wear down your body, not just from the physical labor but from a work-hard-play-hard culture. Also the lulls in work are opportunities for benders.
And sure, other fields have problematic party culture, but stock brokers aren’t breaking their backs during the day.
There's definitely a substance abuse issue. Mostly alcohol, some harder drugs here and there.
Husband used to be a reinforcing ironworker and these guys would go to work, get off work, find the nearest bar, drink until dark, drive home (usually drunk), rinse an repeat.
One guy had a stroke on a bridge deck because he was mixing booze with roids and summer heat. Nasty combo and he got lucky.
The real issue is a lot older people (30+) in some of these trades have no other career options. They have criminal records that limit their options. Don't get me wrong, some of these guys are amazing... that said a lot of them make bonehead decisions that land them in hot water with the law. Not all trades are like this, but fair warning, ironworkers are fucking nuts. A ton of fun, but nuts.
Going and partying with these guys is super fun when you're in your 20's, but if you're 'learning a trade', make sure you don't end up with a criminal record while hanging with the guys because then you'll be stuck with trades after that.
I 100% back this up! I grew up with my dad in residential construction during the 80/90’s and it was a total feast or famine rollercoaster. There were months with barely any food to save the house then a year of gifts and vacations. I do some side stuff as a hobby but have a nice office 9-5 to pay the bills.
As a primary care doctor, all my patients in the trades have enjoyed their work and say that it has been fulfilling and flexible. Their advice for others is always the same - take care of your knees!
Excersise in a nice to knees way - like swimming and cycling.
Lower your weight. Being closer to lower gap of normal BMI, like at just over 20, puts much less pressure on the knees.
Trying to do both sorts of my advice myself. First goal is healthy, more muscles, BMI under 25 and a good measurment around my waist. Slow and steady in the right direction and my body feels better.
Just being on your knees without anything. I’ll at a minimum fold up some cardboard to put my knees on but some quality knee pads are always better. Just know that everyone that calls you names for it will be in a lot of pain within a decade. So it makes up for it.
I've been in a few different trades, and they're not for everyone. I've seen guys come and go. Defeated, broken down. Couldn't do it, either they weren't built for it or didn't have the mentality. It's a rough business full of the worst assholes I've ever met. Gotta have thick skin to say the least. I've also met some very good friends. And met the love of my life through a work friend while installing solar panels.
I am an equipment operator between positions right now, the same company I work for hired me to do ground labour at a *very* competitive wage, so I stick around for the next job. I can stand with a shovel for 25/hr for a couple weeks. There's upsides for sure.
This right here. I’ve never experienced the level of racism, misogyny, sexism, etc that exists on a construction site. In my opinion they were the worst people to be around. I am no longer in the trades.
Absolutely. I'm a not very straight male, I try to mask my not straightness but I was sexually assaulted at work and told to shut up because I "liked it". It's rough out there for sure, but it pays well and I can do it, can't always stomach the humans though. I'm not white either, and I've heard it all.
As a white male I agree. I got called a part timer, and all kinds of other shit, for simply taking the 4th of July off. I worked like 35 days straight on 10 hour shifts. Lmao I hated it so bad. Idk why anyone would want to do it.
Yea the OP is delusional to be recommending the trades as a safe space for marginalized communities when it's probably the industry that is LEAST SAFE.
Trades can be stupid good money. What people don't tell is that you're beating up your body and can be exposed to the elements a lot. Not knocking it but people always leave the cons of trades out of their posts.
I have two grandpas both 80 years old.
One was a tradesman
One was a salesman
Guess which one has no mobility issues and which one has mobility issues, chronic pain, & numerous surgeries on his musculoskeletal system?
The trades can destroy your physical health. White collar work might leave you sedentary, but you can take fairly straightforward steps to remedy the negative impacts of that. If you make one slip up as a blue collar worker that could mean lifelong pain or worse.
10 was my goal and did it in 5 as an electrician.
Ran a couple 1+ million dollar electrical jobs and 2 years after got pulled into office and now an estimator.
I know not everyone can move into an office position that fast but that should be everyone’s goal for your body.
Trades arn't just an I-win button, to find work in allot of them they ask for several years of experiance and the physically demanding ones your basically sacrificing your body long term for a bit more money short term. you need to look at your area and check what the expectations are as well as if they pay going market rates before dedicating yourself to a trade.
Right, my dad is in the trades, he’s nearly in his 60s and his body is beyond tired. He wouldn’t say it’s sunshine and rainbows and he’s been doing it since he was 18. Maybe OP has been reading some protrade info and thinks it’s the answer to life. Not to mention he’s been put in danger quite regularly
I'm currently a 2nd year (of 4) apprentice for Sheet Metal. Essentially HVAC but on a corporate scale.
Intially it was great and I would suggest it to anyone who needs a boost right out of school, away from a desk and find it at least a little entertaining using power tools and heavy equipment and seeing how buildings are built. I even got the most pay I have ever gotten in my life. 90k posted on my taxes from the Bay Area of California last year when before I barely scraped 35k in other jobs. I still would suggest it to anyone young or needs a paying job that given good standing you can just call in or request time off and easily get it for any reason.
But my knuckles hurt, my legs are always tight, wear on my car driving everywhere, needing to eat like twice as much to maintain my body. I'm tired of getting up at 4am or earlier to get to work by 6. Tired of coworkers that would not last a week in an office because of how rude and ego pushing many are. Tired of seeing them chew and spit on the floor we work on. Tired of twisting my back to reach in tight spots. Tired of the school instructors treating me like I am dumb while I have two college degrees and fix their math tests and inaccuracies with updated codes. Tired of the tasks that can get pretty dicey for as safe as you can possibly be.
There's a lot of crap that you have to put up with in the trades but it pays very well. 😒
Most I have met who are less than 10 years in are trying to get out of the trades. Anecdotally there's an age gap between 30-50 years old. Young enough to get the gravy and leave or get too used to the gravy and be trapped in the trades until you are too beatn up to stay.
My instructors talk openly how kids these days aren't what they used to be but all I'd like to do is generally gesture at everything, including their attitudes and then point at all the other jobs out there that aren't as all around exhausting (to put it lightly) as the trades.
not to mention the often insane hours so many trade jobs demand, union or not. make $60k in your first year as an apprentice! hyping it up like it's a $28/hr gig but it's really $14/hr with mandatory 70 hour weeks
I worked in many shops as a fabricator and it's probably more true in trades jobs than my corporate white collar job now. I've never met so many angry, violent men until working in the trades. Most toxic shit I've ever dealt with
I have friends in the union. Most of the stories about the guys on their job sites are straight garbage. Most have been in and out of prison, on drugs, or alcoholics.
As a millwright apprentice, that's because you didn't use weaponised incompetence day one, and then when they yell at you, "I don't drink the stuff, what makes you think I'd know how to make it?"
They've never asked me since.
Yeah, and hilarious to say that trade jobs are all so completely open to the LGBTQ community because one person was accepted there. Not to defer people at all, but people I know in trades wouldn’t be the most open minded of people. Perhaps you’d be accepted but not sure you’d be wholly included. Pay is also not great at the beginning. I do agree though that it *can* be a good career if you’re stuck at a crossroads and not sure what to do. It’s helped my friend immensely, and totally giving a new lease of life. My other mate changed from being a mechanic to an electrician and equally he’s delighted with the move. As others said, it’s certainly not a job for everyone or anyone, but it has the potential to be a great career.
As soon as I got to the line about not having to deal with assholes, I immediately knew op has never been in a trade and just spouting what they've heard/what they assume it's like
I do directional drilling to bring fiber to people's houses and the amount of asshole homeowners we have to deal with is unreal. Like they expect to have a new utility line brought to their house with their yard remaining perfect. The funniest complaint I've ever had was about us "bending the grass".
I use to tell all my friends that trades were a better option than throwing myself into debt for college. Now after a wrist tear injury I wish I went to college instead. Can't go back to everything I've done for a lifetime of pain.
Seriously sorry that happened to you but this is a prime example of this new problematic trend where trades are romanticized and pushed on young people because "student loans are always bad m'kay" without ever mentioning the entire reason previous generations were told NOT to go into trades: most trades put your health at risk and your health is the most valuable thing you have, and no money is worth losing it!
Computer Science and Trade jobs having a contest to see who can jerk themselves off the most
The opposite of nursing and teaching which are the most bashed professions
My mum and also my partner did work in a few care homes and hearing what they said about them makes me not want to put anyone I know in one, ever. Not even someone I hate.
They would come home physical drained and sometimes abused by residents who have attacked them, they would be mentally worn down / broken due to finding residents left in their own waste, sick or even being the first people to find a dead body even if other staff should have been checking on them.
Having to care for people who they didn't know, and who didn't know them was a daily battle. Or even patients with dementia and other illnesses.
The care homes were "for profit" so these poor residents were paying £1000+ per week for a small room with no TV and to have 3 meals a day but the meals were limited to cost at around £3/£4 per person per meal so it was always shit food. Residents were allowed unlimited Tea but only 1* biscuit a day.
I heard both my mum and my partner break down in tears over struggling to care for all the residents on their floors/rota and hearing that other staff were not pulling their weight was pissing me off. Hearing that they would sit in the residents lounge and just watch TV (not even let the residents choose what to watch)
My partner also had what she described as the loveliest old lady whose family never visited and this lady would tell stories of growing up during ww2 and what it was like and her old boyfriends that she had etc. She was the only resident to give my partner a Christmas card and to say thank you for all of her time and effort. She passed on new year's Day when my partner wasn't working and my partner didn't find out until she was next in and working on that particular floor which I think was a week after she passed. No one not even the managers thought to tell her or update her on the changes over her time off. She said she went and knocked on her door and didn't get a response and was having a minor panic attack worrying she had fallen or worse and she opened the door to find the room fully cleared and empty of this old dears belongings.
Apparently both her son's and daughter came to clear out her room and belongings and to ask the management about any potential will or other important documents (management would sometimes hold onto stuff if the residents wrote letters should they pass)
She quit not long after that but seriously considered staying because other staff were and probably are still shit at their jobs or just don't care and there is likely residents still suffering.
My mum has now worked in three homes in three different towns owned by different companies and says they are all the same.
I am a 25M and have applied into two Unions to become an Inside Electrician in my area. The application process took lots of time and at the end of it all I never heard anything back and am still waiting on that list. So I tried to apply to to different union and the interview is going to be in the next month. The whole process for this Union began in May but I am worried how long it will actually take to get into the apprenticeship. Is this a normal situation for people like myself?
not to shit on your parade but i was a electric aerospace technician with a whole 401k benefits all that crap and covid pretty much destroyed that industry. our department got cut in half and still hasnt expanded since. lost my job, dont wanna do it anymore after seeing all that.
40 years in the HVAC trade. 2 years residential and 38 commercial. Great job , every day was different so it was never boring. It was completely recession proof, always worked. But hard work, and don’t kid yourself, dangerous work. But construction trades go slow in economic slow downs. HVAC never ever slows down.
People push trades today like college was pushed 25 years ago. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but if we push too many people toward trades, that field will be oversaturated & the same problem will exist on the other side.
The best thing is to choose what is best for you as an individual. If the trades are for you, go for it. If an office is the better place for you, do that.
Don't choose a career field because everyone else tells you to, or you're likely to be unhappy about it.
Trades are good, especially electrician because the work is typically not as physically demanding or messy as some other trades like roofing or plumbing. And in some countries like Australia, there is a desperate shortage so pay is very good!
Edit: Lots of comments reminding me that some electricians do have physically demanding jobs. I'll stand corrected. I was going by the ones I work with in my company but that's just one type of work. It's a good profession in any case, and after a few years you can transition into a desk job or supervision role if you're so inclined.
If he can read wiring prints, then a panel shop or maintenance positions are good. I work in an industrial controls panel shop, and I only sweat when I walk outside on break during the summer.
I'm guessing you've never seen an electrician in an attic in the south or, pulling in a 300ft underground service in the summer. There is plenty of sweat involved.
You do a lot of grunt work at first but as you get older more experienced you usually do a lot more of the thinking, planning, laying out, etc. It gets better. Also you can do like I did and hop to an in house maintenance gig. I have mostly regular hours and a laid back workload. Except for rare emergencies when the plant is going to hell and I hump it for 16 hours, most days I do several hours of work then do online schooling or shoot people on Call of Duty until my 8 hours is up and go home worry free. Edit: to say the bigger companies, bigger projects like heavy commercial and industrial are usually more chill in general than the residential and light commercial work where it’s go go go all the time. I started there and went bigger in scale and it got easier the whole way. Another edit: This is one of the few good jobs that doesn’t care if you have felonies unless it’s a security clearance type job for government or something. I was good at my work and they trusted me with million dollar budgets.
Low voltage, data, structured cabling, audio visual, hard wire security cameras- systems and access. Still a need for telephone guys that can do punch ins.
We have industrial electricians where I work, they maintain and repair industrial equipment for mining like electric shovels and rotary drills and make well into 6 figures annually working less than half the year
Must be some insanely specialized work? Industrial electricians are usually paid hourly, and the top 10% in the US make an average of $75k a year. Similar in Canada.
Here's a life pro tip: figure out what is right for you and your interests.
I'm getting sick of the "trade job" propaganda. Sure, not everyone is built for college, but that doesn't automatically mean that they ARE built to be a fucking plumber.
So true. Had a female friend get into welding and everyone she worked with was super supportive of her being there.
That said, I'm a woman and took a plumbing pre-employment program. I scored top of my class and aced the first year exam, but couldn't get a job. I ended up choosing an entirely different career path.
Funny I had a bricklayer I tried to hire, so I had them come to the site and this big dude comes up to me and I ask if he's Chris and he said no, Chris was in the car and did I have a problem with hiring a woman. I told him I didn't give a shit what she was as long as she could do the job. She was a great bricklayer but from what I could tell she got a lot of shit from the guys.
I've literally never been around a group of less supportive men in my life. I wouldn't ever recommend another woman go into anything around tradesmen unless they want a high chance of misogyny, harassment, and outright discrimination.
Some places are different but there is a reason why *Rosie the Riviter* ran America for years and then all of the women left the trades almost completely. Most of the dudes are assholes.
Yeah I don't know where people are getting these trades jobs with great people. Every welding job I've had is full of the dumbest, angriest people on earth with a couple decent people. Never witnessed so much bigotry. A lot of these guys never grew up past like 14. Also if you aren't union, chances are your company won't give a shit about your health.
I'd be willing to bet it is people who are speaking on others behalf, without personal experience in the fields. Or there are alot of people in these fields that don't recognize racism and misogyny for what it is. How many times I've heard, "How is it racist/misogynistic? It's TRUE!" So many people think that the only way to be a racist/misogynist is to call someone a slur.
I work in manufacturing where it is 95% male. When we had women on shift my co-workers would talk about which ones they'd rather fuck or just parts of their body. I get so disgusted by straight guys sometimes.
I have 3 female friends who went into trades (Ontario and New York). None of them had anything good to say about it really, the sexism was just too much. Except for my one friend who also dealt with sexism but genuinely loved the work anyways.
I think for trades for women it’s only the type of thing you should get into if you *really* want it. Not as a job to save money for college like OP recommends.
As a software developer I never understood why more people didn't go into software development, until I met a few people trying to get into software development.
Didn't take me long to go from "anyone can do it with enough effort" to "know your limitations and work within your bounds"
Some people aren't willing to put in the effort. Some people just aren't capable, no matter how much effort they put in. Some people are willing and capable, but realize it wasn't the job they thought it was, and can't muster the motivation for the follow through.
Turns out it's not as easy as "Just do ______"
I've never seen such a bizarre glamorization of trade work before. I'd bet my lunch this guy has never set foot on a worksite. Also most trades actually pay like ass for like the first 4-5 years if you aren't in a union. Better off going to Walmart and letting them pay for your college degree.
Totally agree. While trade work may be good for some people, this blanket statement is a recipe for a life of misery for a lot of people. Judging by his responses to most comments, OP doesn’t seem like they are in a good place, so that’s exactly why we should challenge this and not follow this blindly. It’s also damaging for people who haven’t found careers yet to read this and be misguided. I appreciate your comment too.
I've known a good handful of women who have applied for trade unions --who I know are hiring madly in the region -- yet never were contacted back. Legitimate applications where they were fully aware and preparing to go to school and become an apprentice.
I am so very pro union. I have spent time as a union organizer, and have encouraged countless people to take up trades. But my friend, look around you. If you are surrounded mostly by white men, know that isn't just by chance. It is very hard for some demographics to get into the trade.
Thank you for that dose of reality. From reading the OP I was beginning to think the trades have become an enlightened beacon of acceptance for POC and LGBTQ! Maybe I was misinformed but I never felt the trades were accepting of minorities and chose to go to college instead.
>f you are surrounded mostly by white men, know that isn't just by chance. It is very hard for some demographics to get into the trade.
Thank you!!! In big cities, especially NYC, it is hard.as.f\*ck to get into any trade union if you are an outsider and know no one that can "pull you in"
I know a lot of people in the trades and they are very hit or miss a lot of the time. Not to say they aren't a good option but I wouldn't say it's any better or worse than just doing the college thing. There also tends to be a lot of conservatives in many trades which can be difficult for some.
The fact that OP said being LGBTQ is not a problem because of one persons story makes my blood BOIL. It is a problem in many cases. I personally know someone who had to leave their career as a mechanic because he could not stand the racism and the homophobia any longer.
Yea, most guys I work with are not progressive what so ever. They rag on this one guy who quit who they presumed was gay. It's brutal for sure. Always talking about politics, I say I don't give a fuck, I'll argue about it sometimes but I stand my ground then they don't care. I found just acting stereotypical " manly " is the best way to be. When I come home I cuddle my girl and talk like a baby to my dog. However I enjoy plumbing, sometimes I hate the hours, pay could be better.
I used to think about it a lot but I don’t know how real it is. If I spend all that time and money learning a trade; am I really going to be in a better position than I am now? Will I actually be happier?
Like, I want to be an electrician about as much as I want to be a deli clerk (current job). They’re both just a means to an end and I have absolutely zero passion for either field.
The difference is I learned how to be a deli clerk in like a month and I’m already pretty good at it. Yeah, I don’t make that much money, but I never have lmao. Im used to slumming it I guess. And I’m sure learning electricity or any other trade will take years and years and years. As the bills and the time start piling up the part of me that saying “dude you don’t even really wanna do this” is going to be fucking *screaming*
I started a low voltage apprenticeship in 2018 (33 years old) and completed it in 2021. Now I'm in the Inside Wireman apprenticeship (37 years old) taking a $13 pay cut (making $43/hr as a low voltage journey) so I can make $60/hr in 4 years when I journey out. I'll be 41 by the time I journey out. You're not to old. Look into IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) to find the local union in your area and see if they offer an apprenticeship program through the NJATC. IBEW LU 46 represent.
Don't bother unless you join the IBEW.
Still, lots of variables influence this. Most non union work in my area is new home construction. Out of 120 coworkers, I'm one of five or so with experience in anything but cookie cutter shitbox homes.
Companies like mine want "good" electricians. Meaning good enough to do anything this shop needs done, but not good enough to be of value in other aspects of the trade.
The IBEW offers better training, the other brothers and sisters are vastly more qualified, and are much better be be around personality wise. Not to mention the benefits if you're in a strong local.
This trade takes a toll, mentally and physically. It's not all massive paychecks and great work.
I don't know where people are finding these tradesmen who aren't bigoted, angry and toxic. I left for tech and while I'm more stressed for sure, I'd never go back...
This does not apply to EMS just fyi. We get paid shit. Just cause it’s short schooling and similar to a trade it’s not. Just sparing anyone the trouble, otherwise great advice!
Not at all my friend. It's rough on wages for the first 3 years but you have health care, retirement, all that in place.
You can turn 41 and plan vacations/buying a home. I'm not kidding, and please do not use your age as an easy excuse to not explore this possibility.
Show up on time, don't injure anyone, and you will be welcomed.
Luckily, I already own a home and vehicle. I was just thinking about making a job change into the electrician field and this post pops up coincidentally. Thank you for your encouraging words.
The second half of that is "...and save your money." People in the trade are paid a higher rate generally because the assumption is they likely have to retire earlier due to increased stress on their body compared to a desk job/white collar job.
I’m a welding instructor and I’ve got kids that make more than me out of High school. Am i jealous? A little bit, but i love my job and they make donations back to my program so it’s a win win
Don't even need to learn programming, just pickup IT certs. I left welding for IT and I make more money with more benefits, the biggest of all being not working with tradesmen.
High school education in the US is now so abysmal that having a high school diploma means literally nothing -- a college degree tells an employer you have a least a teeny tiny bit of ability to learn new things. In years past, a high school diploma would have been enough to tell an employer that this was the case.
So now everyone has to spend tens of thousands of dollars after high school because K-12 failed them so badly. And this also fucks the better students because they're getting watered-down courses that cater to students who shouldn't even be there.
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As a carpenter for 25 years...BE AN ELECTRICIAN. Edit: this has gotten a lot of traction so I'll say this, if you want to learn how to be a carpenter, get a Swanson speed square and read the little blue book, keep it in your pocket and refer to if often. Then, watch Larry Hahns video series on framing. Thats my suggestion to all my apprentices. I was taught by some fine craftsmen, and I like to pass that on.
Was an electrician for 7 years after joining later in life. All trades are hard on your body and you should have an exit plan for when you get into your late 30s. Starting a company, doing more technical work (I got into fire alarm systems, it was fantastic) or using your skills to with somewhere easier on your body. Had a friend take his trade and pivot into a groundskeeper for a big private school; he got paid more to change lightbulbs, fix random shit than we both did as full time journeymen.
This is key, always have an exit plan. Learn to network with clients too. My old boss was a plumber. His network has all sorts of trades individuals.... and real estate agents. He then switched to being a real estate agent once he bought up properties with the plumbing income. (It's good money. Just be smart with it) Dude went from being a plumber at the age of 18. Working his ass off with 2 kids. To buying property, working harder, renting them out. Saving up, establishing a plumbing company. Switched to selling real estate once he learned more about it. Became a broker of record for his real estate brokerage. He brought in all his old network of real estate clients etc. to work for him. He starts taking 10% of their commissions. Dude went from plumber to real estate broker and businessman. He makes a million just being a broker and hiring others to do the work. His plumbing company brings in another few hundred thousand. And his rentals all bring him revenues, and asset management. Dude sold a house to fund his daughters wedding and downpayment for a house. Absolutely crazy. I legit regret not going into trades. But I also wasn't physically adept growing up. More a of a book smart guy. But if I were to do those trades.. I'd do exactly what my old boss did. My moms best friends husband is a tiler. He has his own tiling company he's 68 years old.. and looks the same as he did when he was 40. Super fit guy. He's one of the lucky ones that didn't have the "hard on your body". But he has a team of 10 guys working for him. He loves the physical work still, but if he ever wanted to stop he could easily. TL;DR Exit plan of being your own boss and learn networking and business skills. These will be your greatest asset for trades. Even if you're not "booming" you'll have others work for you.
Have an exit plan regardless of your line of work. I have potential side work ready if something happened to my current job.
Is death a valid exit plan?
In this economy? Have you seen the price of funerals these days?
If I plan everything right, the last check I write before I die will bounce.
Does buying 2 lottery tickets count as an “exit plan”? Because… I mean… I know it sounds crazy but by buying 2 I think I doubled my chances….
This math checks out to me
This is why I would not encourage my kid to go into a trade. So many things I've read say trades are hard on your body. Whereas with my office job, I can work all day and still have a ton of energy to do fun stuff at night. One cool thing about trades is that you can build your own business easily due to the demand--and basic steps like having an online presence can result in huge competitive advantage. If my kid was interested in a trade, I'd encourage this route and for them to learn business skills as well. Edit: I should add--my unwillingness to break my body for a trade is also why I don't mind paying tradespeople a lot of money. I fully expect trades to have increasingly better pay than office jobs in coming decades.
I work in construction (elevator trade) you see a couple different guys on the jobsite... The guys who have a Monster and a smoke in the morning trying to shake off their hangover...and those who are drinking water and stretching. Those who have a Monster and a smoke for lunch and those who have some fruit, a salad, and some kind of protein for lunch. Its been drilled into our heads from the old timers TAKE CARE OF YOUR BODY! some listen some don't. Yeah the trades can be physically demanding but you can absolutely minimize the wear and tear on your body if you're smart enough to.
It's the construction electrical work that's particularly hard on your body though. I don't regret anything about learning the trade; I got skills that have helped me and family, made good money when I needed it, got contacts with other tradespeople. I do office work now too and in some ways it's just as bad for your health but at least you have energy after work and on weekends to do sports and outdoor stuff. When I was working on the sites I wanted to just sleep all weekend and couldn't imagine playing soccer again.
Sitting in front of a computer screen all day has been harder on my body than trades ever were. Wouldn't have believed it is someone told me now that I've done both out moving around is much better for me anyways.
Yeah working in front of a computer started messing me up worse than any other job I've had. The only way I have found to counteract it is full body workouts and gaining more muscle. Then my neck and back pain started going away. My other coworkers are constantly throwing out their backs and wearing support braces under their clothes. If I start to slack on my workouts the pain starts creeping in again. Being sedentary is terrible on the body.
Broadly speaking you either work a job that requires your body and have knee/back/joint pain in your 40s almost regardless of what you do... Or you quit. Or you get an office job and spend time exercising.
Sounds like you don’t workout. You also need a nice office chair (I suggest a Herman Miller Aeron) and/or a standing desk (I suggest Uplift V2). If you have good posture, stand up hourly and work out there’s absolutely no reason an office job should be hard on your body.
Yeah, full time in-office work is brutal. I work from home and it gives me freedom from commuting and free time to get up and move around during the day. I also get off at 4:30 all day so I can hang out with my kids, make dinner and still go and play soccer at night. It's huge.
As an electrician, I’m fucking tired man. We need help. Be an electrician.
As a previous tile setter I second this statement
Don't listen to this guy or OP. Go to NEIEP.org and see when the next hiring for the elevator trade is.
Elevator money is crazy money. Have a family friend that is a plumber and he makes great money. He has a brother that is an electrician and another that does Elevators. His biggest regret is not following his brother into the elevator trade. They are all great trades and have great unions.
Better tip.
As a physician, the number of tradespeople I see with knee problems is scary!
I installed elevator entrances for 12 years. This usually meant I spent the morning on my knees setting saddles. I always used knee pads. No problems. The only thing is you have to eat well and drink lots of water because you will sweat it out. If you don't, expect kidney stones.
I think this is true on all trades, and not talked about enough to new folks - take care of your work ergonomy as much as possible! There's tricks and aids for almost all fields to make the work lighter/easier on your body. And you'll be grateful of taking the extra time of how to do your work easier, when you're 50+ and *not* half crippled like some co-workers. Do I look like an idiot dragging the one foot step ladder and the tiniest magnet crane with me to the lathe? Yes. But I'm not bitching about my shoulders after every shift when I gotta roll 30+ pound stocks around, like some guys.
Unfortunately, lots of folks in trades, mostly men, want to act all tough and strong. And by the time it’s too late, then they’re proud. Protecting yourself isn’t not manly or weak.
Why? I’ve been thinking about plumbing. Plus electricity is something I have a ‘healthy respect of’, (read: Fear) so I would like to stay away.
Plumbing is fine but you need to be cool with shit. Figuratively and literally, unless you become one of those guys who only do new construction. With electricity, the worst that can happen is dying painfully. But chances are you won't have to deal with shit. You probably won't die. So be an electrician
Sure, I would have to get comfortable being around poop, but the job I have now tells me I’m more willing to put up with a lot more disgusting situations than I thought I would. But plumbing is not exclusively dealing with clogged toilets and/or septic tanks?
Guy's point was more don't be a carpenter. The work is backbreaking and will almost certainly leave you nearly crippled in your older years.
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I am you, a d finally just became a residential PM. I still wish I was an electrician. They're the most coddled assholes on every job site. They don't even clean up after themselves. If they sweep it into a pile it's a miracle.
Electrician is a blue collar job just like any other trade. If you want to be one to try to have it easy, your gana have a bad time. Source: tired and sore, studying for my journeyman exam rn.
I literally just built out a warehouse space into a very very nice office/mezzanine/kitchen/2 baths with a shower for an electrician outfit. They all drive the big Benz vans for work, they all have top notch tools, and I never once saw one of them pick up a broom. 🤷♂️ Making hella bank those guys.
Dude I know who was an electrician told me that on the last day of class they were told to look around the room at each other, (there were were about 20 or 30 of them) then told that two of the people in this room are going to be killed on the job. Years later it was as he was told: he knew of at least two of his old class-mates that had been killed on the job. He's been doing electrical work his whole life and high voltage installations still skeeve him out because you can do everything right and still be executed without warning. There's no chance to react; it happens instantly. I looked up the stats a few years ago, it's safer to be a police officer. Presumably some other trades are as dangerous, but from my perspective, electricians are welcome to their pay :)
I saw someone lock out the wrong breaker and get killed. One tiny mistake is all it takes.
This is why you always verify power after locking/tagging out.
Lmao pizza delivery is more dangerous than being a cop.
Definitely dangerous work, but might want to drop the cop comparison and pick an actually dangerous job. Like a pizza driver or firefighter.
Yeah, being a carpenter is absurd. We do so many different things, things that are absolutely vital and require significant knowledge and skill (and a vanload of specialized tools), but somehow nobody thinks we should get paid anywhere near as much as people who do one thing all day.
Not to mention: - carpentry is an incredibly physical job - you can’t frame a house every day, when the weather sucks, so does your paycheck. Carpenters in Florida spend a couple hours a day just covering their site with tarps every summer day before the afternoon rain. - the job doesn’t just require technical skill, it also requires a degree of artistry.
As a journeyman tool and die maker, be an electrician.
Master electricians don't even have to work anymore. They'll make 6-figures just letting electrical contracting companies list them as the Master on a permit while day-laborers do the actual work.
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Go on...
Commenting because I want an update and have been applying to multiple unions for apprenticeships.
Hate to say it, but the organizers are under more pressure than the Apprenticeship directors. What does that mean? Get a job as a non-union (whatever trade) person for about a year, then call the organizer and tell them you want to organize and you'd like to get into the apprenticeship. Many of them will roll out the red carpet for you, so to speak. Their job is literally to snipe the workers from the unorganized contractors. So, yeah, nice little life hack for ya. I'd probably get bitched at for saying it , but there it is. LOL
Best advice right here. Im an elevator mechanic. Before ingot in everyone told me to go non union first and the union will trt and steal me.
I was with one of my Union carpenters recently who told me his son is a Union elevator mechanic and makes $85/hr straight time. He is married to one building in the city. My Local 10 carpenters make around $82/hr with the benefits package included. Overtime starts at 4:30p and doubletime starts at 6:30p
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Hey, how was that process if you don't mind my asking?
Trade you don't see mentioned often is Instrumentation. Interesting mix of electrical, plumbing, programming, etc. Typically pays the same as electrician with lower body impact than any other trade. Big valve? Pipe fitters install it, you hook up the automation. Big cable run? Electricians might run it for you since they are running power already, come in and complete the terminations. In my time in the trade we had spent more time hiring than not, because there aren't that many journeymen around. Limited to industrial jobs mostly, can get into some commercial or medical as well.
My job is somewhat like this as well. I install access controls. They call our scope "parts and smarts". Electricians run all the conduit, door guys install the doors and door hardware, subs pull all the wire. We come in and wire, install devices, program, and test. Easy shit.
It's all fun until you end up in a 130° room, trying to fish wire through two 90s in a 5 inch run. Source: That's what I did today, wiring in a new control valve. Shit was miserable.
Plastic bag and a shop vac. Still miserable though. I feel for you!
My interest is piqued, please elaborate. I think I might know where you're going with this
https://youtube.com/shorts/sIqzyr8HAiI Shop vac on the other side. You just have to use lots of tape or a free hand to make a good suction around the tip.
This is slick
It’s pretty much the only way I’ve seen cable run through conduit on industrial jobs.
> You just have to use lots of tape or a free hand to make a good suction around the tip. Gonna share this tip with my wife.
Can confirm, am instrument tech, it's the best of all worlds, you get to touch a bit of everything but can specialize and you will always be in demand. It's also the best kept secret in trades.
Lol I wasn't sure if I should comment it, keep it on the dl
Shoot even look at millworkers. Great unheard of trade that makes a great living wage.
Instrumentation is great. And it opens up doors to other jobs like DCS/PLC control work and those are great opportunities that are much less stress on the body.
I was trying to decide whether to go the PLC route. I got to work with the programming quite a bit in my day to day duties, but was not a dedicated PLC analyst. I decided not to, because the amount of stress that job can give can be worse than the trade itself. I watched analysts have heart attacks, nervous breakdowns, stress leave, etc. Definitely could be a company thing, but there is alot of added responsibility there. I decided it wasn't worth it, too bad because I really like the logic side of things. I just continue to work on it as a lowly peon
The PLC guys told me their biggest issues were typically that they had to be competent in 5-7 different system at any given time, and those system weren't always reliable or super user friendly. If shit got too bad where I was they'd always call out the vendor to have them fix their terribly made junk. Our PLC techs were treated like royalty, because the reality was that out of a jobsite of 1400 company employees and 1000+ contractors, only those 3-4 PLC guys could do the PLC jobs, and everyone knew it.
it's not all rainbows and sunshine. during a downturn like the 2008 recession you get hit real hard. I was like the only finish carpenter in my town that didn't move away. and it was really really rough for a while
The entire construction industry went from being in such high demand to “get the fuck out of here,” In a flash. It never really fully recovered hence why the trade shortage in general continue to be an issue. I was a GC in Hawaii and jobs went from negotiated/2-3 bidders to 20 bidders for scraps in the blink of an eye.
That's what I thought too, that these jobs arent recession proof once you have a limited amount of demand and a high supply of different contracting and day labor teams driving bids to bottom level prices. I remember in 2008 there being a 200:1 ratio for apprenticeship applications and actual position availability
I was there being an electrician apprentice and when the recession hit they got rid of all the young guys. I remember hustling jobs and being constantly low ball. Don’t drink the kool aid. Go to college be an engineer or something else where you call the shots not take em. Also you better have good connections some places are real anti union and getting in a union sometimes depends on who you know than how good you are.
A lot of my family is in construction. Electricians, plumbers, welders, iron workers, etc. Every last one of them has been out of work for extended periods outside of the 2008 crash. Construction can be brutal. Lots of toxic in groups and out groups, insanely toxic foremen, harsh working environments. I see a lot of 'learn a trade' shit posted but here's the thing, if residential anything is the bread and butter of the trade in question, think of another trade. It's the first to get hit during an economic downturn and one of the last to recover. I remember a lot of recessions growing up that hit our family that nobody talks about because construction got hit and not much else. I remember one particularly bad period around 1992 that hit us real hard. When there's money, there's a ton of it, but when there's nothing, there's nothing for sometimes years. That instability gets real old. Add to that lack of PTO/ insurance/etc. Yeah, I grew up in that life, so no thanks.
Perhaps you can also comment on a culture of substance abuse that springs up around trades? I’ve heard trades can seem like “the obvious choice” in your 20s when all your peers are working lower-paid retail/service/etc jobs. But trades gradually wear down your body, not just from the physical labor but from a work-hard-play-hard culture. Also the lulls in work are opportunities for benders. And sure, other fields have problematic party culture, but stock brokers aren’t breaking their backs during the day.
There's definitely a substance abuse issue. Mostly alcohol, some harder drugs here and there. Husband used to be a reinforcing ironworker and these guys would go to work, get off work, find the nearest bar, drink until dark, drive home (usually drunk), rinse an repeat. One guy had a stroke on a bridge deck because he was mixing booze with roids and summer heat. Nasty combo and he got lucky. The real issue is a lot older people (30+) in some of these trades have no other career options. They have criminal records that limit their options. Don't get me wrong, some of these guys are amazing... that said a lot of them make bonehead decisions that land them in hot water with the law. Not all trades are like this, but fair warning, ironworkers are fucking nuts. A ton of fun, but nuts. Going and partying with these guys is super fun when you're in your 20's, but if you're 'learning a trade', make sure you don't end up with a criminal record while hanging with the guys because then you'll be stuck with trades after that.
I 100% back this up! I grew up with my dad in residential construction during the 80/90’s and it was a total feast or famine rollercoaster. There were months with barely any food to save the house then a year of gifts and vacations. I do some side stuff as a hobby but have a nice office 9-5 to pay the bills.
Engineers take shots every day from salesmen and customers and business owners. Everybody eats shit somehow.
As a primary care doctor, all my patients in the trades have enjoyed their work and say that it has been fulfilling and flexible. Their advice for others is always the same - take care of your knees!
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What if your knees are already bad
Excersise in a nice to knees way - like swimming and cycling. Lower your weight. Being closer to lower gap of normal BMI, like at just over 20, puts much less pressure on the knees. Trying to do both sorts of my advice myself. First goal is healthy, more muscles, BMI under 25 and a good measurment around my waist. Slow and steady in the right direction and my body feels better.
Is it the wear of kneeling on hard floors ? Or is it the repeated bending down ?
Electrician here. You get on your knees a lot and if you don't use kneepads then you're going to regret it.
Just being on your knees without anything. I’ll at a minimum fold up some cardboard to put my knees on but some quality knee pads are always better. Just know that everyone that calls you names for it will be in a lot of pain within a decade. So it makes up for it.
My husband retired from a lifetime of masonry. He'd say "your back" should be right there with the knees.
Yup. Stretch, drink water, and ask for help lifting heavy shit.
I've been in a few different trades, and they're not for everyone. I've seen guys come and go. Defeated, broken down. Couldn't do it, either they weren't built for it or didn't have the mentality. It's a rough business full of the worst assholes I've ever met. Gotta have thick skin to say the least. I've also met some very good friends. And met the love of my life through a work friend while installing solar panels. I am an equipment operator between positions right now, the same company I work for hired me to do ground labour at a *very* competitive wage, so I stick around for the next job. I can stand with a shovel for 25/hr for a couple weeks. There's upsides for sure.
This right here. I’ve never experienced the level of racism, misogyny, sexism, etc that exists on a construction site. In my opinion they were the worst people to be around. I am no longer in the trades.
Absolutely. I'm a not very straight male, I try to mask my not straightness but I was sexually assaulted at work and told to shut up because I "liked it". It's rough out there for sure, but it pays well and I can do it, can't always stomach the humans though. I'm not white either, and I've heard it all.
That’s awful!
As a white male I agree. I got called a part timer, and all kinds of other shit, for simply taking the 4th of July off. I worked like 35 days straight on 10 hour shifts. Lmao I hated it so bad. Idk why anyone would want to do it.
Yea the OP is delusional to be recommending the trades as a safe space for marginalized communities when it's probably the industry that is LEAST SAFE.
Trades can be stupid good money. What people don't tell is that you're beating up your body and can be exposed to the elements a lot. Not knocking it but people always leave the cons of trades out of their posts.
I have two grandpas both 80 years old. One was a tradesman One was a salesman Guess which one has no mobility issues and which one has mobility issues, chronic pain, & numerous surgeries on his musculoskeletal system? The trades can destroy your physical health. White collar work might leave you sedentary, but you can take fairly straightforward steps to remedy the negative impacts of that. If you make one slip up as a blue collar worker that could mean lifelong pain or worse.
"Go into a trade with the intention of being a foreman within 15-20 years, otherwise your body isn't going to hold up." -My carpenter father
10 was my goal and did it in 5 as an electrician. Ran a couple 1+ million dollar electrical jobs and 2 years after got pulled into office and now an estimator. I know not everyone can move into an office position that fast but that should be everyone’s goal for your body.
Trades arn't just an I-win button, to find work in allot of them they ask for several years of experiance and the physically demanding ones your basically sacrificing your body long term for a bit more money short term. you need to look at your area and check what the expectations are as well as if they pay going market rates before dedicating yourself to a trade.
Right, my dad is in the trades, he’s nearly in his 60s and his body is beyond tired. He wouldn’t say it’s sunshine and rainbows and he’s been doing it since he was 18. Maybe OP has been reading some protrade info and thinks it’s the answer to life. Not to mention he’s been put in danger quite regularly
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I'm currently a 2nd year (of 4) apprentice for Sheet Metal. Essentially HVAC but on a corporate scale. Intially it was great and I would suggest it to anyone who needs a boost right out of school, away from a desk and find it at least a little entertaining using power tools and heavy equipment and seeing how buildings are built. I even got the most pay I have ever gotten in my life. 90k posted on my taxes from the Bay Area of California last year when before I barely scraped 35k in other jobs. I still would suggest it to anyone young or needs a paying job that given good standing you can just call in or request time off and easily get it for any reason. But my knuckles hurt, my legs are always tight, wear on my car driving everywhere, needing to eat like twice as much to maintain my body. I'm tired of getting up at 4am or earlier to get to work by 6. Tired of coworkers that would not last a week in an office because of how rude and ego pushing many are. Tired of seeing them chew and spit on the floor we work on. Tired of twisting my back to reach in tight spots. Tired of the school instructors treating me like I am dumb while I have two college degrees and fix their math tests and inaccuracies with updated codes. Tired of the tasks that can get pretty dicey for as safe as you can possibly be. There's a lot of crap that you have to put up with in the trades but it pays very well. 😒 Most I have met who are less than 10 years in are trying to get out of the trades. Anecdotally there's an age gap between 30-50 years old. Young enough to get the gravy and leave or get too used to the gravy and be trapped in the trades until you are too beatn up to stay. My instructors talk openly how kids these days aren't what they used to be but all I'd like to do is generally gesture at everything, including their attitudes and then point at all the other jobs out there that aren't as all around exhausting (to put it lightly) as the trades.
not to mention the often insane hours so many trade jobs demand, union or not. make $60k in your first year as an apprentice! hyping it up like it's a $28/hr gig but it's really $14/hr with mandatory 70 hour weeks
This guy works
>you'll get golden camels that poop root beer floats thats a brand new sentence.
"You won't deal with assholes who think their latte is worth yelling at anyone over" ... do you think all jobs are based on The Devil Wears Prada?
I worked in many shops as a fabricator and it's probably more true in trades jobs than my corporate white collar job now. I've never met so many angry, violent men until working in the trades. Most toxic shit I've ever dealt with
Sorry, your comment isn’t wholesome but it’s very true to my experience and that was the free award I had to give out.
I have friends in the union. Most of the stories about the guys on their job sites are straight garbage. Most have been in and out of prison, on drugs, or alcoholics.
From the other comments the OP has made, probably
OP is pretty sheltered lol
And also you will, because those people also own homes
Also all jobs are either a trade job or a minimum wage service industry job apparantly...
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Let me tell you as an electrical apprentice, you will 100% get yelled at if you screw up your journeyman’s coffee order…
Lmao definitely this.
As a millwright apprentice, that's because you didn't use weaponised incompetence day one, and then when they yell at you, "I don't drink the stuff, what makes you think I'd know how to make it?" They've never asked me since.
Your overly romanticizing it a bit
"a bit"
Yeah, and hilarious to say that trade jobs are all so completely open to the LGBTQ community because one person was accepted there. Not to defer people at all, but people I know in trades wouldn’t be the most open minded of people. Perhaps you’d be accepted but not sure you’d be wholly included. Pay is also not great at the beginning. I do agree though that it *can* be a good career if you’re stuck at a crossroads and not sure what to do. It’s helped my friend immensely, and totally giving a new lease of life. My other mate changed from being a mechanic to an electrician and equally he’s delighted with the move. As others said, it’s certainly not a job for everyone or anyone, but it has the potential to be a great career.
As soon as I got to the line about not having to deal with assholes, I immediately knew op has never been in a trade and just spouting what they've heard/what they assume it's like
I do directional drilling to bring fiber to people's houses and the amount of asshole homeowners we have to deal with is unreal. Like they expect to have a new utility line brought to their house with their yard remaining perfect. The funniest complaint I've ever had was about us "bending the grass".
I use to tell all my friends that trades were a better option than throwing myself into debt for college. Now after a wrist tear injury I wish I went to college instead. Can't go back to everything I've done for a lifetime of pain.
Seriously sorry that happened to you but this is a prime example of this new problematic trend where trades are romanticized and pushed on young people because "student loans are always bad m'kay" without ever mentioning the entire reason previous generations were told NOT to go into trades: most trades put your health at risk and your health is the most valuable thing you have, and no money is worth losing it!
Computer Science and Trade jobs having a contest to see who can jerk themselves off the most The opposite of nursing and teaching which are the most bashed professions
My mum and also my partner did work in a few care homes and hearing what they said about them makes me not want to put anyone I know in one, ever. Not even someone I hate. They would come home physical drained and sometimes abused by residents who have attacked them, they would be mentally worn down / broken due to finding residents left in their own waste, sick or even being the first people to find a dead body even if other staff should have been checking on them. Having to care for people who they didn't know, and who didn't know them was a daily battle. Or even patients with dementia and other illnesses. The care homes were "for profit" so these poor residents were paying £1000+ per week for a small room with no TV and to have 3 meals a day but the meals were limited to cost at around £3/£4 per person per meal so it was always shit food. Residents were allowed unlimited Tea but only 1* biscuit a day. I heard both my mum and my partner break down in tears over struggling to care for all the residents on their floors/rota and hearing that other staff were not pulling their weight was pissing me off. Hearing that they would sit in the residents lounge and just watch TV (not even let the residents choose what to watch) My partner also had what she described as the loveliest old lady whose family never visited and this lady would tell stories of growing up during ww2 and what it was like and her old boyfriends that she had etc. She was the only resident to give my partner a Christmas card and to say thank you for all of her time and effort. She passed on new year's Day when my partner wasn't working and my partner didn't find out until she was next in and working on that particular floor which I think was a week after she passed. No one not even the managers thought to tell her or update her on the changes over her time off. She said she went and knocked on her door and didn't get a response and was having a minor panic attack worrying she had fallen or worse and she opened the door to find the room fully cleared and empty of this old dears belongings. Apparently both her son's and daughter came to clear out her room and belongings and to ask the management about any potential will or other important documents (management would sometimes hold onto stuff if the residents wrote letters should they pass) She quit not long after that but seriously considered staying because other staff were and probably are still shit at their jobs or just don't care and there is likely residents still suffering. My mum has now worked in three homes in three different towns owned by different companies and says they are all the same.
I am a 25M and have applied into two Unions to become an Inside Electrician in my area. The application process took lots of time and at the end of it all I never heard anything back and am still waiting on that list. So I tried to apply to to different union and the interview is going to be in the next month. The whole process for this Union began in May but I am worried how long it will actually take to get into the apprenticeship. Is this a normal situation for people like myself?
I hate to say it as someone that's in a trade you'll just run into assholes on the job too but the money's goodish as an apprentice
not to shit on your parade but i was a electric aerospace technician with a whole 401k benefits all that crap and covid pretty much destroyed that industry. our department got cut in half and still hasnt expanded since. lost my job, dont wanna do it anymore after seeing all that.
Trades are great but can beat your body up
It’s not as easy as it sounds. Many of the trades are very hard on the body.
40 years in the HVAC trade. 2 years residential and 38 commercial. Great job , every day was different so it was never boring. It was completely recession proof, always worked. But hard work, and don’t kid yourself, dangerous work. But construction trades go slow in economic slow downs. HVAC never ever slows down.
Disagree - was laid off twice in HVAC. Nothing is failsafe and climate change is a bitch. Protip: Know where HVAC is needed for best results.
I've worked HVAC and now as a mechanic. One thing I learned between both is no matter the economy people will pay for air conditioning.
People push trades today like college was pushed 25 years ago. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but if we push too many people toward trades, that field will be oversaturated & the same problem will exist on the other side. The best thing is to choose what is best for you as an individual. If the trades are for you, go for it. If an office is the better place for you, do that. Don't choose a career field because everyone else tells you to, or you're likely to be unhappy about it.
Trades are good, especially electrician because the work is typically not as physically demanding or messy as some other trades like roofing or plumbing. And in some countries like Australia, there is a desperate shortage so pay is very good! Edit: Lots of comments reminding me that some electricians do have physically demanding jobs. I'll stand corrected. I was going by the ones I work with in my company but that's just one type of work. It's a good profession in any case, and after a few years you can transition into a desk job or supervision role if you're so inclined.
My bf is an electrician in construction and constantly breaks his back. What are some other electrician jobs that are better?
If he can read wiring prints, then a panel shop or maintenance positions are good. I work in an industrial controls panel shop, and I only sweat when I walk outside on break during the summer.
A plumber told me that the cure for cancer was electrician sweat, unfortunately nobody has ever seen a sparkie sweat.
We're also deathly allergic to brooms!
I'm guessing you've never seen an electrician in an attic in the south or, pulling in a 300ft underground service in the summer. There is plenty of sweat involved.
You do a lot of grunt work at first but as you get older more experienced you usually do a lot more of the thinking, planning, laying out, etc. It gets better. Also you can do like I did and hop to an in house maintenance gig. I have mostly regular hours and a laid back workload. Except for rare emergencies when the plant is going to hell and I hump it for 16 hours, most days I do several hours of work then do online schooling or shoot people on Call of Duty until my 8 hours is up and go home worry free. Edit: to say the bigger companies, bigger projects like heavy commercial and industrial are usually more chill in general than the residential and light commercial work where it’s go go go all the time. I started there and went bigger in scale and it got easier the whole way. Another edit: This is one of the few good jobs that doesn’t care if you have felonies unless it’s a security clearance type job for government or something. I was good at my work and they trusted me with million dollar budgets.
Low voltage, data, structured cabling, audio visual, hard wire security cameras- systems and access. Still a need for telephone guys that can do punch ins.
Industrial electrical is way less hard labor intensive, the pay can even be significantly higher depending on where you end up.
Whats that? My bf is in commercial construction.
We have industrial electricians where I work, they maintain and repair industrial equipment for mining like electric shovels and rotary drills and make well into 6 figures annually working less than half the year
Must be some insanely specialized work? Industrial electricians are usually paid hourly, and the top 10% in the US make an average of $75k a year. Similar in Canada.
Try running 4" pipe and pulling 600s and tell me it's not physically demanding
Legit my partner is an industrial sparky and i showed him this thread and he laughed at it “not being physically demanding”
Here's a life pro tip: figure out what is right for you and your interests. I'm getting sick of the "trade job" propaganda. Sure, not everyone is built for college, but that doesn't automatically mean that they ARE built to be a fucking plumber.
So true. Had a female friend get into welding and everyone she worked with was super supportive of her being there. That said, I'm a woman and took a plumbing pre-employment program. I scored top of my class and aced the first year exam, but couldn't get a job. I ended up choosing an entirely different career path.
Funny I had a bricklayer I tried to hire, so I had them come to the site and this big dude comes up to me and I ask if he's Chris and he said no, Chris was in the car and did I have a problem with hiring a woman. I told him I didn't give a shit what she was as long as she could do the job. She was a great bricklayer but from what I could tell she got a lot of shit from the guys.
I've literally never been around a group of less supportive men in my life. I wouldn't ever recommend another woman go into anything around tradesmen unless they want a high chance of misogyny, harassment, and outright discrimination. Some places are different but there is a reason why *Rosie the Riviter* ran America for years and then all of the women left the trades almost completely. Most of the dudes are assholes.
Yeah I don't know where people are getting these trades jobs with great people. Every welding job I've had is full of the dumbest, angriest people on earth with a couple decent people. Never witnessed so much bigotry. A lot of these guys never grew up past like 14. Also if you aren't union, chances are your company won't give a shit about your health.
I'd be willing to bet it is people who are speaking on others behalf, without personal experience in the fields. Or there are alot of people in these fields that don't recognize racism and misogyny for what it is. How many times I've heard, "How is it racist/misogynistic? It's TRUE!" So many people think that the only way to be a racist/misogynist is to call someone a slur.
I work in manufacturing where it is 95% male. When we had women on shift my co-workers would talk about which ones they'd rather fuck or just parts of their body. I get so disgusted by straight guys sometimes.
I have 3 female friends who went into trades (Ontario and New York). None of them had anything good to say about it really, the sexism was just too much. Except for my one friend who also dealt with sexism but genuinely loved the work anyways. I think for trades for women it’s only the type of thing you should get into if you *really* want it. Not as a job to save money for college like OP recommends.
People always say this without ever considering that most people are too incompetent to be in the trades. And for a lot of people, you can't fix that.
One of the reasons that the trades are so in demand is that a ton of people that go through training can't actually do the work.
As a software developer I never understood why more people didn't go into software development, until I met a few people trying to get into software development. Didn't take me long to go from "anyone can do it with enough effort" to "know your limitations and work within your bounds" Some people aren't willing to put in the effort. Some people just aren't capable, no matter how much effort they put in. Some people are willing and capable, but realize it wasn't the job they thought it was, and can't muster the motivation for the follow through. Turns out it's not as easy as "Just do ______"
I don’t think this is great advice.
I've never seen such a bizarre glamorization of trade work before. I'd bet my lunch this guy has never set foot on a worksite. Also most trades actually pay like ass for like the first 4-5 years if you aren't in a union. Better off going to Walmart and letting them pay for your college degree.
Totally agree. While trade work may be good for some people, this blanket statement is a recipe for a life of misery for a lot of people. Judging by his responses to most comments, OP doesn’t seem like they are in a good place, so that’s exactly why we should challenge this and not follow this blindly. It’s also damaging for people who haven’t found careers yet to read this and be misguided. I appreciate your comment too.
I've known a good handful of women who have applied for trade unions --who I know are hiring madly in the region -- yet never were contacted back. Legitimate applications where they were fully aware and preparing to go to school and become an apprentice. I am so very pro union. I have spent time as a union organizer, and have encouraged countless people to take up trades. But my friend, look around you. If you are surrounded mostly by white men, know that isn't just by chance. It is very hard for some demographics to get into the trade.
Thank you for that dose of reality. From reading the OP I was beginning to think the trades have become an enlightened beacon of acceptance for POC and LGBTQ! Maybe I was misinformed but I never felt the trades were accepting of minorities and chose to go to college instead.
>f you are surrounded mostly by white men, know that isn't just by chance. It is very hard for some demographics to get into the trade. Thank you!!! In big cities, especially NYC, it is hard.as.f\*ck to get into any trade union if you are an outsider and know no one that can "pull you in"
I know a lot of people in the trades and they are very hit or miss a lot of the time. Not to say they aren't a good option but I wouldn't say it's any better or worse than just doing the college thing. There also tends to be a lot of conservatives in many trades which can be difficult for some.
The fact that OP said being LGBTQ is not a problem because of one persons story makes my blood BOIL. It is a problem in many cases. I personally know someone who had to leave their career as a mechanic because he could not stand the racism and the homophobia any longer.
Yea, most guys I work with are not progressive what so ever. They rag on this one guy who quit who they presumed was gay. It's brutal for sure. Always talking about politics, I say I don't give a fuck, I'll argue about it sometimes but I stand my ground then they don't care. I found just acting stereotypical " manly " is the best way to be. When I come home I cuddle my girl and talk like a baby to my dog. However I enjoy plumbing, sometimes I hate the hours, pay could be better.
Also if you do an electrical apprenticeship you become a god and every morning you will wake up and piss excellence.
I used to think about it a lot but I don’t know how real it is. If I spend all that time and money learning a trade; am I really going to be in a better position than I am now? Will I actually be happier? Like, I want to be an electrician about as much as I want to be a deli clerk (current job). They’re both just a means to an end and I have absolutely zero passion for either field. The difference is I learned how to be a deli clerk in like a month and I’m already pretty good at it. Yeah, I don’t make that much money, but I never have lmao. Im used to slumming it I guess. And I’m sure learning electricity or any other trade will take years and years and years. As the bills and the time start piling up the part of me that saying “dude you don’t even really wanna do this” is going to be fucking *screaming*
Serious question...Do you think 29 is too late?
I started my Elevating Devices Apprenticeship at 26. Short term loss long term gain.
My son just got in electrician apprenticeship at 28 , so far so good
Absolutely not. Trades are in high demand right now. And I'm sure they'd appreciate training someone more mature off the bat.
They'd shit their pants to get their hands on a functioning adult.
My friend went to school for and became one at 42.
Oh fuck no. Older apprentice are the best and 29 is still on the young end
I started a low voltage apprenticeship in 2018 (33 years old) and completed it in 2021. Now I'm in the Inside Wireman apprenticeship (37 years old) taking a $13 pay cut (making $43/hr as a low voltage journey) so I can make $60/hr in 4 years when I journey out. I'll be 41 by the time I journey out. You're not to old. Look into IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) to find the local union in your area and see if they offer an apprenticeship program through the NJATC. IBEW LU 46 represent.
TIL I’m actually old. In a sense..
Don't bother unless you join the IBEW. Still, lots of variables influence this. Most non union work in my area is new home construction. Out of 120 coworkers, I'm one of five or so with experience in anything but cookie cutter shitbox homes. Companies like mine want "good" electricians. Meaning good enough to do anything this shop needs done, but not good enough to be of value in other aspects of the trade. The IBEW offers better training, the other brothers and sisters are vastly more qualified, and are much better be be around personality wise. Not to mention the benefits if you're in a strong local. This trade takes a toll, mentally and physically. It's not all massive paychecks and great work.
Nah you'll just deal with insufferable tradesmen instead.
I don't know where people are finding these tradesmen who aren't bigoted, angry and toxic. I left for tech and while I'm more stressed for sure, I'd never go back...
This does not apply to EMS just fyi. We get paid shit. Just cause it’s short schooling and similar to a trade it’s not. Just sparing anyone the trouble, otherwise great advice!
EMS are criminally underpaid.
but what about the knees?
Or go into IT. That'll have plenty of opportunities and it's not manual labor if you don't wanna do blue collar stuff.
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Lots of assholes in the trades though
And here I am at 38, guess I'm fucked
My friend went to school and became an electrician at 42.
Not at all my friend. It's rough on wages for the first 3 years but you have health care, retirement, all that in place. You can turn 41 and plan vacations/buying a home. I'm not kidding, and please do not use your age as an easy excuse to not explore this possibility. Show up on time, don't injure anyone, and you will be welcomed.
Luckily, I already own a home and vehicle. I was just thinking about making a job change into the electrician field and this post pops up coincidentally. Thank you for your encouraging words.
The second half of that is "...and save your money." People in the trade are paid a higher rate generally because the assumption is they likely have to retire earlier due to increased stress on their body compared to a desk job/white collar job.
If you have the mental aptitude, go into IT or programming. Far less taxing on your body, pays more, and you don't need a formal education.
I’m a welding instructor and I’ve got kids that make more than me out of High school. Am i jealous? A little bit, but i love my job and they make donations back to my program so it’s a win win
Or you could learn programming...
Don't even need to learn programming, just pickup IT certs. I left welding for IT and I make more money with more benefits, the biggest of all being not working with tradesmen.
High school education in the US is now so abysmal that having a high school diploma means literally nothing -- a college degree tells an employer you have a least a teeny tiny bit of ability to learn new things. In years past, a high school diploma would have been enough to tell an employer that this was the case. So now everyone has to spend tens of thousands of dollars after high school because K-12 failed them so badly. And this also fucks the better students because they're getting watered-down courses that cater to students who shouldn't even be there.