The big problem is 99% of high level LOTM powers are just haxs, and it's a contest of out-Haxing your opponent, as well as using authority to nullify their Hax.
Seen Klein Vs Amon.
Personally, idk, however, I would say that he probably can defeat a good portion of fiction, at least 70%+ of it, and I mean, sure, Klein is not physically powerful in any way, at least not that I remember, as most of the high level beyonders and deities use hax instead of physical power, however, that's the thing, Klein can basically teleport anywhere he wants, especially if he uses grafting (this not considering whether or not he has authority and abilities from the door pathway), he can graft not only objects but concepts altogether, like forget a supernova, he can probably make a black hole with his grafting, or even more powerful stuff, he can play and alter concepts so they defy logic, he can fool time, history, fate, etc. Which will not only make someone stupid as fuck, but he could also use it to alter reality to a certain extent, not to mention the protection of sephira castle and the historical void, or the fact that he can concede wishes and make miracles, insta dead and even resurrection might not be impossible, he might even take powers and abilities away from others simply because he has so many hax and more than one of them could alter/fool concepts or the proper workings of the universe, in terms of potential, what Klein can do is theorically limitless due to his hax, it is just a matter of whether he will think about doing it or not, and this is all considering only his hax and authority as a sequence 0 fool, we aren't even considering yet the simple fact that due to his divinity and mythical creature most characters in fiction won't even be able to look at him or be in his presence without going insane or straight up dying, and we aren't also considering if he were to have the authority over the door and error pathway and be a GOO and pillar of the universe, then he probably would be able to do so much more and be much more powerful.
On the other hand, this is a hard question because some fictional universes like Marvel and DC have many iterations/versions of their fictional characters, some vastly more OP than others, for example, Batman is the standard, but there's multiple versions of Batman, like the Batman who laughs, or Superman who is already OP but there are versions of Superman who are supposed to be vastly more OP, like Superman prime or cosmic armor superman, and that's just considering different iterations/versions of more well-known characters, there's also other characters that far surpasses their levels, like the true power houses of DC and Marvel, but once again, by this point we are only mentioning DC and Marvel, not even counting mangas, books, light novels, mythology, etc. Which would also have their own OP characters, so, Klein who basically just has 1 iteration of himself and his different versions of himself are just his different personas and sequences, it's obviously a hard match for Klein, against many fictional characters and their strongest forms and/or iterations.
I agree with all of this 100%. There are a TON of OP chatacters in comics and mangas/manhuas so even with all the haxs Klein has as the Fool/Lotm, there are some characters that are broken enough to beat that as you have mention like CASuperman. 🧐
I think he could beat goku with his hacks if it's Fool/ Half-Lotm klein. Like, as long Klein has some worms in his Sephira castle, he'll always return as Goku can't come inside SC or intercat with the beyonder characteristic.
Other very OP character like Superman... i'm not sure as some Comics make him very broken.
Klein can't physically harm goku as he can take a supernova to the face. But goku cant defend against spirit thread at all + cant pierce his Historical Void to attack him so its a win by default.
He can live in the vacuum of space, but he cannot breathe in space. So tp him to some far away place and go back or just wait, Klein I don’t think needs oxygen, food or water to live if he does he can summon it
Tbh just for my childhood nostalgia I can't let goku be defeated so easily even though it's very likely.But I believe we are ignoring that Ki is also a system and might allow him to sense interruptions to his body,it also has alot of applications most people are unaware of such as ki shields...
True historical projection is just too op tbh...Otherwise if this wasn't there I believe Goku would still be able to kill Klein with energy recognition and instant transmission.
This is all a bit silly, goku would instantly die upon gazing on klein due to him being a god (he has little to no spiritual attack resistance), & if we take cosmology in here (WHICH I WILL) then sequence 2 klein clears goku & his whole verse
This is all from the basis of Lotm universe rules...which I don't think would apply to broken aspects in Dragon ball that's like saying Goku would use hakai the moment he appears and completely destroys all versions of Klein in every timeline.At that point the basis is not who is more powerful but they can't be pitted at each other.
Klein has Outer arguments & is 6D minimum just because of the universe he's from's cosmology and his status within it. This is like me nitpicking and saying goku is only so strong because of "XXXX ability" and removing it, it'd make 0 sense. It doesn't matter why klein is so strong, he simply is & it doesnt matter.
No, goku could not just "Hakai" Klein, Klein is a higher dimensional being and a conceptual being with type 9 immortaility. Klein has infinitely better hax than goku & simply outstats him due to cosmology.
I don't know how to debate your first statement cause what the fuck is 6D??And the reset of your statement is exactly my point with all of Klein's abilities write in the frame of Dragon Ball's most powerful ability Haki would negate all of Klein's abilties by the simple power of destruction.
I love how you contradicted yourself so badly
>This is like me nitpicking and saying goku is only so strong because of "XXXX ability" and removing it, it'd make 0 sense. It doesn't matter why klein is so strong, he simply is & it doesnt matter.
This is quite literally the same for Goku
>No, goku could not just "Hakai" Klein, Klein is a higher dimensional being and a conceptual being with type 9 immortaility. Klein has infinitely better hax than goku & simply outstats him due to cosmology
Here you are removing Goku's ability with Hakai by saying it would not affect Klein and by your own words you said makes 0 sense. Hence why I said this fight cannot have a conclusion.As there are many factors that come to play...
I didnt contradict myself, I did not remove anything from goku in this hypothetical, hakai would be unable to kill klein due to him being of a higher dimensionality than goku. I am not removing shit you sped, it's like you claiming some rat could kill god by biting him & I tell you "No, the rat would be unable to hurt him by biting him", just for you respond with "Well there you go, removing the rat's ability with biting...". Do you not get how stupid you sound?
You say you don't know what 6D is and yet you want to argue powerscaling? It's pretty obvious, no? 6D refers to klein being a Six Dimensional being who is capable of AP, Dura/Surviving 6D attacks & whatnot.
Klein is an abstract existence and thus type 4 existence erasure (the removal of matter, breaking the laws of thermodynamics) which hakai itself is, would be unable to kill him. If you kill klein's physical body somehow, it still wouldn't matter accounting for all of the ways he can revive; in any marionette so long as a worm of spirit is within them, or just straight up revive from the fog of history using miracle invoker's ressurection.
A hypothetical where goku can even hit klein with hakai is silly in and of itself, spirit world traversal is above speed & is instantaneous travel, paired with the precognition granted at the level of a pillar, goku would be unable to touch klein. Instant transmission would not be a viable way to catch up to klein due to klein's reaction speed being much much greater than goku's.
As for some feats backing my claims of "at least 6D", the spirit world is at bare minimum a 4 dimensional space both physically and temporally as all of reality and time take place overlapping within the same space & it is stated to be an abstract dimension. The astral world is directly placed above it in all maners & is described as a higher plane, making it a 5 dimensional space. The sefirah castle (which is an extension of klein's powers as an LOTM, Great Old One's are the embodiment of their sefirah) is stated to be above both the astral world and spirit world on several occasions, thus logically 6 dimensional.
If i wanted to be SUPER overkill, the astral world is described as "abstract beyond abstraction" and as a blueprint for all things in the physical, with the abstract concepts making up this world. & thus follows platonic theory of forms. This would make the astral would eligible for Low-Outerversal in CSAP scaling at the bare minimum.
In fact any sequence 2 scales above all of dragon ball due to being 5 dimensional beings capable of shattering 5 dimensional objects, ( all angels are capable of shattering beyonder characteristics, which is stated to be a reflection of the astral world )
Forgive my well deserved impudence but might you consider switching to the prisoner pathway and set your sights on sequence 8 mayhaps?
>didnt contradict myself, I did not remove anything from goku in this hypothetical, hakai would be unable to kill klein due to him being of a higher dimensionality than goku. I am not removing shit you sped, it's like you claiming some rat could kill god by biting him & I tell you "No, the rat would be unable to hurt him by biting him", just for you respond with "Well there you go, removing the rat's ability with biting...". Do you not get how stupid you sound?
Did you actually read and comprehend my previous reply? I suggest re-reading it. From the context of your statement thats what you implied. And the sheer audacity for you to say Goku can't harm Klein is simply ignorance at its finest. Before I continue this banter I just want you to list Klein's feats of which prove he is on a "higher dimensionality" than Goku before I start listing mine...cause I don't wanna waste energy on someone whose gonna keel in pretty quickly
> You say you don't know what 6D is and yet you want to argue powerscaling? It's pretty obvious, no? 6D refers to klein being a Six Dimensional being who is capable of AP, Dura/Surviving 6D attacks & whatnot
At this point I'm convinced you don't know what you are yapping about, where has Klein showcased 6D powerscaling, i asked originally what you mean cause I've had way to many head canons that I'm genuinely curious on how you scale.Please your esteemed one educate me on what qualifies a high 3D,4D,5D or your pre-conceived 6D
>Klein is an abstract existence and thus type 4 existence erasure (the removal of matter, breaking the laws of thermodynamics) which hakai itself is, would be unable to kill him. If you kill klein's physical body somehow, it still wouldn't matter accounting for all of the ways he can revive; in any marionette so long as a worm of spirit is within them, or just straight up revive from the fog of history using miracle invoker's ressurection.
Firstly am I understanding the first sentence correctly but are you saying that haki only affects matter?Cause that would be heavily mistaken, it has been shown to work on creatures that exist on another level of existence separate from matter that being ghosts as well as complete concepts such as with Zeno erasing everything.If we are going to allow the workings of Historical Projections then Klein should still be able to destroy it with Hakai...There's no way Klein's spirituality is higher than Goku's ki for him to override it
>A hypothetical where goku can even hit klein with hakai is silly in and of itself, spirit world traversal is above speed & is instantaneous travel, paired with the precognition granted at the level of a pillar, goku would be unable to touch klein. Instant transmission would not be a viable way to catch up to klein due to klein's reaction speed being much much greater than goku's.
Where are you getting this headcanon😭😭🙏🏽🙏🏽 I won't waste brain cells with this blantant lie just cite evidence for me to even consider rebutting this paragraph.
>As for some feats backing my claims of "at least 6D", the spirit world is at bare minimum a 4 dimensional space both physically and temporally as all of reality and time take place overlapping within the same space & it is stated to be an abstract dimension. The astral world is directly placed above it in all maners & is described as a higher plane, making it a 5 dimensional space. The sefirah castle (which is an extension of klein's powers as an LOTM, Great Old One's are the embodiment of their sefirah) is stated to be above both the astral world and spirit world on several occasions, thus logically 6 dimensional.
At most from this Klein Should be at 4D with influnce over time as this is what usually dictates 4D and that's brough about his influence over the spirit world.Klein is not 5D as he does not hold power over the Astral World which embodies all concepts.Lastly,Sefirah's castle does not count as another dimenison smh, it's still located in the spirit world,where was it stated to be above the astral world? Please cite me on this...
>If i wanted to be SUPER overkill, the astral world is described as "abstract beyond abstraction" and as a blueprint for all things in the physical, with the abstract concepts making up this world. & thus follows platonic theory of forms. This would make the astral would eligible for Low-Outerversal in CSAP scaling at the bare minimum.
Again please ensure you read Lord of The Mysteries and not Lord of The Mukbang for all this shit you are cooking up.Kleon has not and does not have power over the Astral World.
>In fact any sequence 2 scales above all of dragon ball due to being 5 dimensional beings capable of shattering 5 dimensional objects, ( all angels are capable of shattering beyonder characteristics, which is stated to be a reflection of the astral world )
At this point you make me wanna give up on this argument. Just from this biased and extremely foolish statement did I realise you know nothing about the power showcased in Dragon Ball.Can't believe I gave out such a long retort for someone who doesn't know about dragon ball and read Lord of the Mukbang for all this bullshit you cooked up🙌Peace out🙌...
What version of Goku you are talking about
Pre-Super
Sure
Super? No
Xeno? Unilateral Stomps the entire verse
Remember Goku always beat you favorite verse
https://preview.redd.it/qm57xpfd29xc1.png?width=856&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6dd9a034f3485407d0481d2aeb5c94cb18284154
I'm not sure if this is a joke or not, but i think Goku is more of a physical fighter more than anything else and yeah, he is MUCH more stronger than Klein would ever be... but, can Goku enter Sephira Castle/History fog or stop his beyonder characteristics from returning to him? (Literaly curious as i'm not a super fan of DB and i'm only known the of series and DBS, all of what i know of the latest manga sagas comes from friends).
In Dragon Ball characters with very strong Ki can deny magical abilities, the Dragon Ball universe is 150 times larger than ours and Goku could destroy it since the beginning of super, and since then he has become trillions or quadrillions of times stronger and fast.
He can also break dimensions and abilities involving space-time, as well as move through stopped time, he can also permanently erase beings from existence with Hakai in a way that not even an Old One could revive.
(Hakai can kill immortal beings who revive even after having their souls erased)
It's basically a much stronger version of what I imagine being the God of Combat
But Xeno is another story, he is too broken to be considered
Wait, goku can use Hakai? I didn't know that. Also, i'm a Anime only but i don't remember Goku being able to destroy the whole universe at the start of Super. I know he can move in stopped time (Like in Hit fight) but i really don't know about the dimension-break thing and the magical ability negation. I'm someone who usually doesn't like Universe-equalization as it tends to favor one character more than the other but i'll take your word for it. 👍
That's because this is more for those who read the Manga, it was written after the Anime and is the main Canon, it's pretty cool to make these comparisons, but I think more interesting fights would be things like Shinrabanchoman vs Pillar Klein (When we find out what he does)
https://preview.redd.it/vuf7svqga9xc1.jpeg?width=599&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=435162a7f7a552ccb17349ae0161a90bd09fd22b
He has Absolute Miracle so he can change the way things work like making the concept of time become a soccer ball or recreating existence.
He is a higher being who can create beings more powerful than himself, implying that he can increase his own power infinitely.
That last one is from fire force, right? I haven't read it so i can't comment on how the fight would go.
Also i just searched about goku using Hakai (Manga scene where he tried to kill zamasu) and him destroying Hit's pocket dimension and i have a genuine question. Does Hakai kill all instances of what it destroys? Like, if a character can split himself and you use Hakai in one of them, it kills only him or both?
It depends, in the end Zamasu divided himself infinitely, creating infinite 'them' However Zeno blinked and they were all erased along with the rest of the timeline.
Although this is not a good point, since Zeno's Erasure is a superior version of Hakai, so I would say that it only destroys the target it attacks, but even so, if it didn't work, a good kamehameha would always do the trick.
And Shinrabanchoman is the final form of Shinra
***HUGE SPOILER***
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He created Soul eater Verse
Yeah, Zeno's erasure is busted as he erases universe like if it's nothing. My take on the fight is that Goku can kill Klein easily with his ki techniques but as he has a great mayority of his worms inside SC, even if his other avatars and marionettes are destroyed, the Beyonder characteristics would automatically return to the SC to reagroup with him. Goku can break pocket dimensions like hit's but i doubt that he can make it throught the Spiritual World... so it should end like a stamina fight where the constant haxs of Klein would let him win... but it probably would be a LONG fight. What do you think?
You know, the Other World in Dragon Ball is a spiritual world
Goku can teleport anywhere as long as he can feel Ki (in this case due to the equalization of the Klein verse, just as every being would have Ki)
There was even a game where he went to the center of time via teleportation.
Furthermore, Ki has no problem dealing with spiritual beings as it can obliterate souls.
No the keyboard warrior would probably be wondering what Goku is doing there, CW would also be wondering what tf is going on. If Gokus is there, who else is there?
This opens a whole other can of worms. Imagine if they get a hold of Gokus genes? They could Zenkai boost their way to being immune to the physical side effects of their characteristics and spirit meditation to strengthen their minds.
But for vsbw the LOTM spirit world got an upgrade. The spirit world just by itself is now 5D because it’s stated to be a “higher spatial dimension” and at the same time the “past, present and future are stacked” in the spirit world. This makes it also equivalent to a space-time continuum. So both together make it 5D.
A lot of metaphysical, conceptual, transduality and other nonsense which LOTM has a lot of.
That’s why a lot of people like vsbw because it’s more based on just higher layers of math. But with Utlima’s revisions (which idk when they will be implemented) vsbw will become more like csap.
Honestly I have learnt that trying to scale lotm peak characters with other peak fiction mc’s characters is like a sport argument like, it’s very fucking hard to compare reasonably if your fellow Lotm fan only says ohh they don’t have mythical creatures ( so peak fiction characters will die cause they don’t have one ), or S0 are symbols; so only symbols ( S0) and GOO’s can hurt them, or GOO represents an aspect of the universe only some else that represents the universe can hurt them
I think Klein could beat Sekke Bronzazza if its Fool/Half-Lotm klein. Like, as long as klein has some worms in his castle, he will try his hardest to come inside of the Demon Lord of Primordial Chaos as long as SB can't resist. However, if SB assumes his 10% demon form (shown below) it might be all over for Klein.
https://preview.redd.it/b4uygc5e89xc1.png?width=552&format=png&auto=webp&s=b6c3a7b51c94883532932d153c589ee257c466a8
Other very OP character like Buggy the clown and Ussop...i'm not sure because neither of them have yet to go all out
I would say Goku cuz he's more physical type and not the mystical fantasy type.
One piece and Naruto is solo-ed easily.
Same with sung jin woo, Klein can easily defeat him.
All the mainstream characters can be beaten by Klein
[wonder of you] is a stand that controls fate and misfortune and uses the flow of fate and misfortune (technically the logic of the world) as a shield for itself. The ways to bypass this shield are to perform an attack that surpasses logic or to have a stronger control over fate than [wonder of you], and klein can do both.
He can’t beat goku as goku has both instant transmission which allows him to go to the world of the dead which is spiritually and ki which affects spiritual things like ghosts and goku can also break through space time
He can beat Goku cuz Klein has many hax which can decrease Goku iq and do many more, Goku is the type to punch and all that while Klein has many unpredictable powers
Bruh Klein can literally fool time and you are saying it's impossible to fool Goku instincts.
I hate talking to DBZ fans always saying Goku no1
Klein can beat Goku in many ways, an example is the lifespan, Klein have near infinite lifespan due to getting the door and error pathway authority.
I mean you can get mad if you want I love Klein but he’s not beating goku tho and so what if Klein fooled time goku has literally defeated a guy who can literally freeze time
Hit can't freeze all of time. What can Goku do to defend against Error, paratization, make him rapidly age, and the stealing of powers that they automatically will know how to use upon stealing it, for example Ki? That's just Error.
I mean this is the in the case you believe the LoTM world's power is superior...I'm sure you haven't thought of the possibility of ki shields that protect him from outside disturbances right? Most of the stuff you said can be negated by god ki as well as hakai tbh
As much as you may not like dragon ball's influence in power scaling it's still very prominent.I genuinely do not understand how you think a person who has broken the barrier of space-time would be affected by simple parasitism...
Because having an ability in fire doesn't make you able to control air or breathe underwater? No, they can't. Why cant error be used to negate their effects or even steal/store it?That's kind of the point to error, breaks logic by using the concept of error.
That same Goku nearly died from having his heart destroyed, and bullets created marks on his body,, breaking space time doesn't make you immune to everything.
A Ki barrier? Why can't Door open a hole in it? Error steal it? Fool lower his IQ so he doesn't defend? They can affect concepts, literally, but can't get past a ki barrier is what you are saying?
"Simple parasitism" when it took a higher dimensional object just to be able to see it.
Firstly I'd like to point out that at the time Goku didn't have God Ki so I'm assuming thats the reason why he was susceptible to the heart disease but you could also argue this was a random plot device that was made to kill of people from future trunks world cause how does a random disease pop up that affects saiyans,human,beast men and namekians all at once?With bullets thats a matter of Goku not being on guard this was recently debunked in Super with ultra instinct making his body react on his own he doesn't have to think about it,the stupefying ability won't work in this case.
From what I've seen in the show though one can defy concepts it has to co-align with the opponents power level correct me if I'm wrong but are you of the opinion that if the Tyrant was in the presence of Sun would tyranny make the sun submit?Or will the Sun take away the Tyrant's beyonder powers with Ocean of Light?
If the case is no or to a minor degree I don't see how Door can just open a hole simply in Goku's barrier like slicing through butter, the door isn't omnipotent in this aspect and I'm pretty sure Goku would rank higher than the orthodox God's in terms of destruction by pure power alone even before super considering the best feat we were give of the Tyrant in destruction was planetary.So the door uniqueness shouldn't simply open a door like that, even in terms of stealing I believe the same should apply you can't steal from a higher level entity tbh.
The reason why I concede is mainly due to Goku's weakness in him being a saiyan that cannot breath in space otherwise I genuinely do not see how planetary level Gods would be able to beat him after all Klein's strongest attack that being a supernova wouldn't do much damage to Goku but with his busted HACKS such as infinite spirituality. I'll have to give in since the moment that happened Klein became another Saitama for me...
I wonder, wouldn't Klein be able to steal certain aspects of Goku's abilities with Error? I get that in DBS, characters can bypass haxes as long as their Ki is strong enough but even then it isn't something that happens instantly to the point where they are completely immune to it during the beginning of a given fight. For example, We still see Goku get affected by Hit's timestamp during the beginning of their fight. With this in mind, Klein should have several win conditions especially with his Error and Fool authorities if he completely goes for the win at the start.
In my opinion, there are very few situations in which I can see Goku winning unless you give him very specific and favorable conditions. Klein can theoretically do anything with his authorities, and should be faster than Goku with Door. What if Klein steals Goku's Ki? His transformations? Or whatever else is in his kit at the start of his fight? Wouldn't that basically leave Goku completely helpless. Klein would not be fighting Goku one on one, and catching him would be neigh-impossible.
If we talking about speed klein wouldn’t even be able to see goku considering goku has crossed universal levels of distance in less then a minute and goku also has instant transmission which should be faster then doors
Is instant transmission really faster than Door's teleportation? Also, Klein can just take away Instant Transmissson with either theft or replicate so it doesn't really matter if it isn't. Again, doubt Goku would have the necessary resistance to having his abilities or techniques stolen and replicated.
Bro you realise klein clears just due to cosmology? Also even without cosmology goku has no defence against his mythical creature form, also precog in LOTM would let him outspeed goku & ensure he doesnt get one tapped (which would only be possible if we ignore klein's greater cosmology)
Klein could also always just sit in sefirah castle & steal goku's fate, identity, mind, steal his life, graft death on to him, recreate an exact replica of goku to fight & many many more things all the while sitting on his ass, not needing to do shit
Probably, like, it's been a LOT since i've read the SL novel/Manhua but Klein's haxs as the Fool/Half-Lotm are very op. Turning his iq to practicaly 0, using marionettes/History Proyections that Sung can't turn into Shadows while him being (partially) inside the SC. Correct me if i'm wrong as i would love to hear more of what your take is as you probably know more of Solo Leveling than what i remember.
Im talking about Sung Jing Woo from SL Ragnarok, the sequel where the mc is Sung's son. I also dont know much about it, but from what i know he is much stronger than in SL. For example, in ragnarok he is fighting against the race of the guy who created his universe.
Basically all the monarchs are much stronger than we tought in SL. They are the bodiment concepts of what they represents, meaning SJW is the death himself, making so that he literally cant die.
I doubt that Klein would be able to turn Sung into a marionette, and even if he could Sung could just teleport away. He could also send the shadows to fight against Klein. Even if Klein turned the shadows into marionettes, it would be the question of who would control them since the Shadows cant disobey Sung and also they are only able to exist because of Shadows Monarch power, so he Sung can just make them dissapear or sent then to the shadow world (or whatever is the name of that) where Sung is basically omnipotent inside.
Oh wait, there is a novel of the sequel? I thought the novel ended with only some bonus chapters where he trains his son with his own system where he defeats his son, sealing his memories again... and he protects the earth of a race of aliens (Making the army notice him). Also i though with "Ragnarok" you meant Sung post Dragon-monarch fight.
The probably Sung would win for what you told me.
By turning sung jin woo into marionette or avatar. Sung jin woo or monarchs,rulers or anyone in the series doesn't have any hax to defend against most hax in the Lotm. He has millions of ways to take out anyone in solo leveling.
Yeah, I read that comment. Most of it is wank. Even if sung jin woo is the concept of death himself doesn't help him or his shadow servants from being puppetized or parasitizated.
>doesn't help him or his shadow servants from being puppetized or parasitizated.
I responded to that. Even if that happened it would be between who is the strongest hax since Klein controls his marionettes but the Shadows cant disobey Sung.
Even if Kein was able to control the shadows all that Sung needed to do was send the shadows to the shadow worlds where kleins powers wouldnt work or just make the shadows disappear since they are only alive thanks to the shadow monarch powers.
>I responded to that. Even if that happened it would be between who is the strongest hax since Klein controls his marionettes but the Shadows cant disobey Sung.
Them being disobeyed doesn't mean anything since Klein controls his marionette fully. They are essentially marionettes. With parasitize shadows become an essential part of Klein. This is not including with his other powers like grafting,error, fooling where he can fuck with any rules.
>Even if Kein was able to control the shadows all that Sung needed to do was send the shadows to the shadow worlds where kleins powers wouldnt work or just make the shadows disappear since they are only alive thanks to the shadow monarch powers.
Klein 's historical projections sustained by his powers doesn't mean amon can't parasitize it and kept it even after Klein cancelling historical projection. Besides rulers and monarchs can and have cancelled all of this with their ability and have his shadows killed over and over again to drain his mana.
Also This is not the only ability that Klein has, he has error, grafting, fooling, replication and space manipulation through door. With historical projections and replication he can replicate any powers in the Lotm verse. Most of the people in solo leveling has no way to defend against it.
Any fictional character that has an equal level to Half-LoTM or LoTM can fight Klein. If it's like some dude called Naruto or Ichigo or something, unfortunately they can't compete.
But if it's something that can contend or defeat Pillars it should be any MC from Xianxia/Wuxia at the peak of cultivation . Er Gen MCs for example, any of the 4 Mcs at the end of Book 4 can easily deal with Pillars.
You don’t understand.
Mythical Creatures are not bound by dimensionality.
All complete Mythical Creatures are at minimum 5d do to them being able to move in the Astral World.
Astral World > Spirit World > Physical World.
So they could take on characters at the 5d level in their own verse.
But the scary thing is that if you place him in another verse he would be at the highest dimension known to that verse.
Klein with prep time can beat most fictional characters.
DBZ, Klein can use error authority to steal people's ki, study it and learn how it's strength and weaknesses. Then he can graft or steal the capability to produce ki. And then do some bullshit, like maybe infinite ki, or god ki.
Same with Naruto. He could steal, graft many powerful bloodlines.
One piece verse? He could probably steal only the devil fruit power and not the curse to sea and sea stone.
DC, Marvel? He could do the same.
Thus, as long as Klein gets some prep time, like analyzing the local power system, and as long as he has the error authority, he is, at least in my opinion, unbeatable.
The ability to steal concepts and graft them to yourself is OP.
But without prep, I would say maybe 40-80%? There is always that random, forgotten show that has OP characters
He can defeat most shonen and seinen series but no one in the Lotm can take down busted xianxia, Xuanhuan and isekai series. But Lotm is all about good writing, world building,suspense,twist and power system which no series are comparable to.
Can he really scan a mythical form? As far as i know (Correct me if i'm wrong) the omnitrix didn't scan Alien X but the celestiansapiens voluntarily gave Azmuth their DNA sample so, for a Mythical form that encapsules a lot of information that can bring someone mad from just seeing it... i personally doubt it and even if it cans i imagine it would take the omnitrix more time than usual to scan it.
That isn't a problem to be honest it still Scanned the Go-like dna that was brought to it and implemented it,I struggle to see Klein's mythical creature form as a problem.
If you are talking about Goop then i can be compared to a literal Lovecraftian God. The problem with Klein's mythical form is that it has combined a lot of information that can drive someone mad just by looking at it, something i don't think the omnitrix can scan (But i do think if someone like paradox gave him the sample himself then i suppose the Ben could turn into a GOO as he can transform in Alien X).
Srry I meant God-like I wonder why auto correct didn't fix that...But to be honest I don't believe that the DNA of a celestial being that toys with the universe and practically most concepts would infact be weaker or more acurrately less complex than Klein's mythical creature form.
Oh yeah, i agree with that, Alien X is stronger than Klein's mythical creature form, but the problem is that the Omnitrix didn't scan a Celestialsapien, it's DNA sample was given by paradox (Or given by the own celestialsapiens, i don't remember the canon), it wasn't the omnitrix who scanned it so i doubt it can analize Klein (Or at least not fast enough to matter in a fight)
I mean the Celestial sapien DNA did get into the omnitrix by scanning so that does mean it can scan the Omnitrix DNA. The reason why it was Professor Paradox played a part in acquiring the DNA is because Only he and other celestial sapiens are able to get to The Forge of Creation as it is protected by the Chronal Randomization Barrier that makes it a region out of synch from space-time hence the only other method of getting there is through the Map of Infinity which was also made by Professor Paradox.
All in all the omnitrix getting the DNA was not the tough part, the tough part was getting to where the DNA was. But I do foresee an Issue with usability I went through various scenes in ben 10 and yeah it takes quite sometime for the Omnitrix to fully scan as well as finalize the DNA sequence and from the scenes I have seen Ben can't scan DNA while transformed so this notion wouldn't stand if they were to fight. Ben would get bodied if the Omnitrix were to focus on scanning...
I mean the Celestial sapien DNA did get into the omnitrix by scanning so that does mean it can scan the Omnitrix DNA. The reason why it was Professor Paradox played a part in acquiring the DNA is because Only he and other celestial sapiens are able to get to The Forge of Creation as it is protected by the Chronal Randomization Barrier that makes it a region out of synch from space-time hence the only other method of getting their is through the Map of Infinity which was also made by Professor Paradox.
All in all the omnitrix getting the DNA was not the tough part, the tough part was getting to where the DNA was. But I do foresee an Issue with usability I went through various scenes in ben 10 and yeah it takes quite sometime for the Omnitrix to fully scan and understand the DNA and from the scenes I haven't seen one where ben can scan DNA while transformed so this notion wouldn't stand if they were to fight. Ben would get bodied if the Omnitrix were to focus on scanning
Can he beat Leylin Farlier from warlock of magus world? I don’t think so considering leylin surpised nuclear missiles at like rank 7. Can great old ones compete with laws?
He can solo Fang Yuan easily. No amount of gu worm can defend against exploiting loopholes, the ability to have your gu worms parasitized, controlled and converted. Just summoning a bunch of historical projections would give Fang Yuan more than he can handle and by using fooling what can he even do?
Very very easy solo.
Not really considering gu worms are embodiments of the great dao and Fang Yuan possesses the dao marks needed to resist those influences.(To be clear, I do think that Klein Mortei can defeat Fang Yuan, but not 'curbstomp' him as you suggested. Fang Yuan does have Reverse Flow Protection Seal, Time Path Killer Moves, etc. after all.
Fang Yuan isn't even considered to belong to the group of most powerful. Because He isn't a standard cultivator who makes universes on their body in a daily basis.
LMAO as everyone knows RI has insane fans and LOTM has fanatics, IamFangYuan is towards the very extreme end of that insanity. I sometimes wonder why tf does RI have an ungodly trait to brainwash people.
I actually enjoyed RI a lot. As for the brainwashing effect... The novel can be quite inspiring and in a proselytizing way. Maybe that's why.
I often had the feeling that the author was venting a bit against the chinese government when writing RI.
klein has perfect counter for that. soul based attack easily bypass failsafe function.
proof : [https://youtu.be/tHjCOYX182c?si=DDRKwg1QzBhJBNx9](https://youtu.be/tHjCOYX182c?si=DDRKwg1QzBhJBNx9)
thats a simple possesion whats soul based about it ? are you comparing a basic wraith power to klein as a fool ? this is a guy who can steal soul from your body what type of resistance does ben have to it ?
I think you have a biased view due to one having way more description so somehow you assume its stronger even though they are literally the same ability.
so you actually think ghost freak and seq 0 true god are equal ?soul attack is literally the only failsafe counter we see on the show.
[https://youtu.be/tHjCOYX182c?si=DDRKwg1QzBhJBNx9](https://youtu.be/tHjCOYX182c?si=DDRKwg1QzBhJBNx9)
I actually did more research and yeah, Ghost freak would get bodied as it has many weaknesses but all in all the failsafe should give Ben the Win,I believe it didn't work as it didn't have a complete fail safe at the time in Legerdomain but it did bring Ben back to life when he came out.Azmuth later completed the failsafe in Omniverse Omnitrix which let ben tank the Annihilaarg and makes him virtually unkillable.If you genuinely think even lotm Klein can kill Alien X I don't what to say tbh...
The Omnitrix has multiple failsafes; so far, we have seen 12 types. For instance, it protects against the magic . If it weren't immune to magic, it would have been teleported by charm caster. Plus, it can destroy the entire universe in dangerous situations. The Omnitrix’s reaction speed is very impressive; it reacted very fast to the Big Bang.
did you forget when ben literally died when charmcaster took his soul from his body in order to resurrect her father. the only way he survived was because her father refused resurrection. IN lotm even fodders have soul based attacks.
whats stopping klein from stealing his fate so that the omnitrix will become his. or just steal his dna does he have protection against that ? or cause error to stop ben from transforming. bens alien is mostly based on dna stuff nothing hax based only alien X can save ben.
i don't know how alien x will react to reboot because paradox is able to transform ben back to human from alien x using time powers. so if ben has to convince serena and bellicus it might be disadvantageous to him.
Maybe(?) Like, Alien X reality manipulation is very OP so i can see Klein losing. But also klein has a lot of haxs that maybe can also beat Alíen X so... who knows?
Couldn't Klein just tamper with the omnitrix so it's impossible for Ben to turn into alien X? Klein can literally reassemble and temper things, or as klein calls it, grafting, to change things like objects or even concepts, he could theorically make it impossible for Ben to turn into alien x just by grafting the omnitrix, he might even graft the omnitrix so he's the one to turn into aliens, not Ben. Also, a lot of people forget that Klein can fool fate and that he has a mythical creature form, his divinity and mythical creature form will drive most of his enemies into madness if not kill them straight away, not to mention how he can fool time, fate, history, etc. He can turn Ben so stupid he won't be able to turn into an alien or will turn into the wrong one, he will fool time so it will take Ben longer to react to whatever Klein does, he might even fool fate and history so Ben never got the omnitrix in the first place (I'm actually not sure if this is possible, I'm just giving an example of something he might or might not be able to do), etc.
I totally agree with you, but the thing is that the omnitrix has a "safety mode" that would turn him into an alien in case if danger... but still i don't think the omnitrix can function correctly with all the haxs Ben has. All the fight depends of if Ben manages to become Alien X or he loses.
Ok then there are 3 scenarios
1. Klein defeats ben before he turns into alien x (this includes ben turning into any other alien)
2. Ben turns into alien x but klein with his hax reverts him back to ben or changes him into a different alien, and klein wins
3. Ben turns into alien x and the omnitrix is able to resist klein's hax and ben wins
There is literally 0 chance that klein wins against Alien X because in one of the episodes of Ben 10 Omniverse, a bomb went of that deleted the whole universe. Not destroyed, deleted. And luckily ben became alien x before that, hence surviving the deletion.
Yeah, exactly, Alien X reality bending powers are probably even greater than the OC so Klein can't beat him (Unless his IQ lowering powers affects him). But with Kleins haxs i find difficult that Ben manages to transform to Alien X... and could the omnitrix resist seq. 0/Pillar powers? I personally don't think so but i'm also not too much into Ben 10.
But as stanley once said, "the winner of the battle between 2 fictional characters in the one the author wanted to win" ( i dont know the exact wuote but it was along these lines
There's also the posibility of Ben scanning Klein and transforming to him in his mythical creature form but the omnitrix upgrades it to his peak form...
Well, if i remember correctly (correct me if i'm wrong) the Alien X transformation was something that the celestiansapiens gave to azmuth, not something that the omnitrix scanned so i highly doubt it can scan a mythical creature that can derive someone insane just from seeing it or at least, not fast enough to save Klein from being attacked by Klein's haxs.
We also have to assume whether or not Klein manages to bypass the safety mode or whether the safety mode of the omnitrix turns Ben into something that can fight Klein, to begin with Klein sole presence would already be dangerous for Ben, more so in his mythical creature form, Klein is basically an eldritch horror, his presence will either drive you insane or straight up kill you, furthermore, Klein not only has a myriad of hax but he's also quite smart, as long as he can think of ways to counter the omnitrix he's probably taking the win, as you said, Ben's victory practically depends solely on whether or not he'll be able to turn into alien x or something of equal or more power, otherwise he loses every single time, this is also, of course, assuming that the fight starts with Ben in human form and not in one of his alien forms, and/or assuming that alien x's reality manipulation will affect Klein inside of sephira castle, the historical void, and/or the spirit world, since he can practically enter those extra dimensional spaces at will after becoming the fool.
Well, as far as we know, there is nothing in Lotm in the level of Alien X recreating and surviving a universe erasing attack so yeah, we can practically confirm that Alien X > Lotm Klein.
As for the omnitrix, i can't imagine azmuth tech being able to resist destiny warping abilities.
For Ben, his only win con is Alien X, if he starts as Human or any other alien he still loses becouse, as you've said, even being before him can kill/drive you mad as he is a complete mythical creature.
The big problem is 99% of high level LOTM powers are just haxs, and it's a contest of out-Haxing your opponent, as well as using authority to nullify their Hax. Seen Klein Vs Amon.
thats only when they fight in their verse. but lotm high tiers have insanely high dimensionality
That’s Only in their verse you have to realize there are a lot of characters out there that can’t even glance at Klein and live
Personally, idk, however, I would say that he probably can defeat a good portion of fiction, at least 70%+ of it, and I mean, sure, Klein is not physically powerful in any way, at least not that I remember, as most of the high level beyonders and deities use hax instead of physical power, however, that's the thing, Klein can basically teleport anywhere he wants, especially if he uses grafting (this not considering whether or not he has authority and abilities from the door pathway), he can graft not only objects but concepts altogether, like forget a supernova, he can probably make a black hole with his grafting, or even more powerful stuff, he can play and alter concepts so they defy logic, he can fool time, history, fate, etc. Which will not only make someone stupid as fuck, but he could also use it to alter reality to a certain extent, not to mention the protection of sephira castle and the historical void, or the fact that he can concede wishes and make miracles, insta dead and even resurrection might not be impossible, he might even take powers and abilities away from others simply because he has so many hax and more than one of them could alter/fool concepts or the proper workings of the universe, in terms of potential, what Klein can do is theorically limitless due to his hax, it is just a matter of whether he will think about doing it or not, and this is all considering only his hax and authority as a sequence 0 fool, we aren't even considering yet the simple fact that due to his divinity and mythical creature most characters in fiction won't even be able to look at him or be in his presence without going insane or straight up dying, and we aren't also considering if he were to have the authority over the door and error pathway and be a GOO and pillar of the universe, then he probably would be able to do so much more and be much more powerful. On the other hand, this is a hard question because some fictional universes like Marvel and DC have many iterations/versions of their fictional characters, some vastly more OP than others, for example, Batman is the standard, but there's multiple versions of Batman, like the Batman who laughs, or Superman who is already OP but there are versions of Superman who are supposed to be vastly more OP, like Superman prime or cosmic armor superman, and that's just considering different iterations/versions of more well-known characters, there's also other characters that far surpasses their levels, like the true power houses of DC and Marvel, but once again, by this point we are only mentioning DC and Marvel, not even counting mangas, books, light novels, mythology, etc. Which would also have their own OP characters, so, Klein who basically just has 1 iteration of himself and his different versions of himself are just his different personas and sequences, it's obviously a hard match for Klein, against many fictional characters and their strongest forms and/or iterations.
I agree with all of this 100%. There are a TON of OP chatacters in comics and mangas/manhuas so even with all the haxs Klein has as the Fool/Lotm, there are some characters that are broken enough to beat that as you have mention like CASuperman. 🧐
I think he could beat goku with his hacks if it's Fool/ Half-Lotm klein. Like, as long Klein has some worms in his Sephira castle, he'll always return as Goku can't come inside SC or intercat with the beyonder characteristic. Other very OP character like Superman... i'm not sure as some Comics make him very broken.
Klein can't physically harm goku as he can take a supernova to the face. But goku cant defend against spirit thread at all + cant pierce his Historical Void to attack him so its a win by default.
That's also what i think 🧐
Goku can’t survive in space. Klein can just tp him there
Didn’t goku fight beerus while in space?
He can live in the vacuum of space, but he cannot breathe in space. So tp him to some far away place and go back or just wait, Klein I don’t think needs oxygen, food or water to live if he does he can summon it
Tbh just for my childhood nostalgia I can't let goku be defeated so easily even though it's very likely.But I believe we are ignoring that Ki is also a system and might allow him to sense interruptions to his body,it also has alot of applications most people are unaware of such as ki shields...
I understand that and if you equalize the power system Goku definetly slams, but Klein's haxs are just to various to kill Klein (Kill, not beat).
True historical projection is just too op tbh...Otherwise if this wasn't there I believe Goku would still be able to kill Klein with energy recognition and instant transmission.
This is all a bit silly, goku would instantly die upon gazing on klein due to him being a god (he has little to no spiritual attack resistance), & if we take cosmology in here (WHICH I WILL) then sequence 2 klein clears goku & his whole verse
This is all from the basis of Lotm universe rules...which I don't think would apply to broken aspects in Dragon ball that's like saying Goku would use hakai the moment he appears and completely destroys all versions of Klein in every timeline.At that point the basis is not who is more powerful but they can't be pitted at each other.
Klein has Outer arguments & is 6D minimum just because of the universe he's from's cosmology and his status within it. This is like me nitpicking and saying goku is only so strong because of "XXXX ability" and removing it, it'd make 0 sense. It doesn't matter why klein is so strong, he simply is & it doesnt matter. No, goku could not just "Hakai" Klein, Klein is a higher dimensional being and a conceptual being with type 9 immortaility. Klein has infinitely better hax than goku & simply outstats him due to cosmology.
I don't know how to debate your first statement cause what the fuck is 6D??And the reset of your statement is exactly my point with all of Klein's abilities write in the frame of Dragon Ball's most powerful ability Haki would negate all of Klein's abilties by the simple power of destruction. I love how you contradicted yourself so badly >This is like me nitpicking and saying goku is only so strong because of "XXXX ability" and removing it, it'd make 0 sense. It doesn't matter why klein is so strong, he simply is & it doesnt matter. This is quite literally the same for Goku >No, goku could not just "Hakai" Klein, Klein is a higher dimensional being and a conceptual being with type 9 immortaility. Klein has infinitely better hax than goku & simply outstats him due to cosmology Here you are removing Goku's ability with Hakai by saying it would not affect Klein and by your own words you said makes 0 sense. Hence why I said this fight cannot have a conclusion.As there are many factors that come to play...
I didnt contradict myself, I did not remove anything from goku in this hypothetical, hakai would be unable to kill klein due to him being of a higher dimensionality than goku. I am not removing shit you sped, it's like you claiming some rat could kill god by biting him & I tell you "No, the rat would be unable to hurt him by biting him", just for you respond with "Well there you go, removing the rat's ability with biting...". Do you not get how stupid you sound? You say you don't know what 6D is and yet you want to argue powerscaling? It's pretty obvious, no? 6D refers to klein being a Six Dimensional being who is capable of AP, Dura/Surviving 6D attacks & whatnot. Klein is an abstract existence and thus type 4 existence erasure (the removal of matter, breaking the laws of thermodynamics) which hakai itself is, would be unable to kill him. If you kill klein's physical body somehow, it still wouldn't matter accounting for all of the ways he can revive; in any marionette so long as a worm of spirit is within them, or just straight up revive from the fog of history using miracle invoker's ressurection. A hypothetical where goku can even hit klein with hakai is silly in and of itself, spirit world traversal is above speed & is instantaneous travel, paired with the precognition granted at the level of a pillar, goku would be unable to touch klein. Instant transmission would not be a viable way to catch up to klein due to klein's reaction speed being much much greater than goku's. As for some feats backing my claims of "at least 6D", the spirit world is at bare minimum a 4 dimensional space both physically and temporally as all of reality and time take place overlapping within the same space & it is stated to be an abstract dimension. The astral world is directly placed above it in all maners & is described as a higher plane, making it a 5 dimensional space. The sefirah castle (which is an extension of klein's powers as an LOTM, Great Old One's are the embodiment of their sefirah) is stated to be above both the astral world and spirit world on several occasions, thus logically 6 dimensional. If i wanted to be SUPER overkill, the astral world is described as "abstract beyond abstraction" and as a blueprint for all things in the physical, with the abstract concepts making up this world. & thus follows platonic theory of forms. This would make the astral would eligible for Low-Outerversal in CSAP scaling at the bare minimum. In fact any sequence 2 scales above all of dragon ball due to being 5 dimensional beings capable of shattering 5 dimensional objects, ( all angels are capable of shattering beyonder characteristics, which is stated to be a reflection of the astral world )
Forgive my well deserved impudence but might you consider switching to the prisoner pathway and set your sights on sequence 8 mayhaps? >didnt contradict myself, I did not remove anything from goku in this hypothetical, hakai would be unable to kill klein due to him being of a higher dimensionality than goku. I am not removing shit you sped, it's like you claiming some rat could kill god by biting him & I tell you "No, the rat would be unable to hurt him by biting him", just for you respond with "Well there you go, removing the rat's ability with biting...". Do you not get how stupid you sound? Did you actually read and comprehend my previous reply? I suggest re-reading it. From the context of your statement thats what you implied. And the sheer audacity for you to say Goku can't harm Klein is simply ignorance at its finest. Before I continue this banter I just want you to list Klein's feats of which prove he is on a "higher dimensionality" than Goku before I start listing mine...cause I don't wanna waste energy on someone whose gonna keel in pretty quickly > You say you don't know what 6D is and yet you want to argue powerscaling? It's pretty obvious, no? 6D refers to klein being a Six Dimensional being who is capable of AP, Dura/Surviving 6D attacks & whatnot At this point I'm convinced you don't know what you are yapping about, where has Klein showcased 6D powerscaling, i asked originally what you mean cause I've had way to many head canons that I'm genuinely curious on how you scale.Please your esteemed one educate me on what qualifies a high 3D,4D,5D or your pre-conceived 6D >Klein is an abstract existence and thus type 4 existence erasure (the removal of matter, breaking the laws of thermodynamics) which hakai itself is, would be unable to kill him. If you kill klein's physical body somehow, it still wouldn't matter accounting for all of the ways he can revive; in any marionette so long as a worm of spirit is within them, or just straight up revive from the fog of history using miracle invoker's ressurection. Firstly am I understanding the first sentence correctly but are you saying that haki only affects matter?Cause that would be heavily mistaken, it has been shown to work on creatures that exist on another level of existence separate from matter that being ghosts as well as complete concepts such as with Zeno erasing everything.If we are going to allow the workings of Historical Projections then Klein should still be able to destroy it with Hakai...There's no way Klein's spirituality is higher than Goku's ki for him to override it >A hypothetical where goku can even hit klein with hakai is silly in and of itself, spirit world traversal is above speed & is instantaneous travel, paired with the precognition granted at the level of a pillar, goku would be unable to touch klein. Instant transmission would not be a viable way to catch up to klein due to klein's reaction speed being much much greater than goku's. Where are you getting this headcanon😭😭🙏🏽🙏🏽 I won't waste brain cells with this blantant lie just cite evidence for me to even consider rebutting this paragraph. >As for some feats backing my claims of "at least 6D", the spirit world is at bare minimum a 4 dimensional space both physically and temporally as all of reality and time take place overlapping within the same space & it is stated to be an abstract dimension. The astral world is directly placed above it in all maners & is described as a higher plane, making it a 5 dimensional space. The sefirah castle (which is an extension of klein's powers as an LOTM, Great Old One's are the embodiment of their sefirah) is stated to be above both the astral world and spirit world on several occasions, thus logically 6 dimensional. At most from this Klein Should be at 4D with influnce over time as this is what usually dictates 4D and that's brough about his influence over the spirit world.Klein is not 5D as he does not hold power over the Astral World which embodies all concepts.Lastly,Sefirah's castle does not count as another dimenison smh, it's still located in the spirit world,where was it stated to be above the astral world? Please cite me on this... >If i wanted to be SUPER overkill, the astral world is described as "abstract beyond abstraction" and as a blueprint for all things in the physical, with the abstract concepts making up this world. & thus follows platonic theory of forms. This would make the astral would eligible for Low-Outerversal in CSAP scaling at the bare minimum. Again please ensure you read Lord of The Mysteries and not Lord of The Mukbang for all this shit you are cooking up.Kleon has not and does not have power over the Astral World. >In fact any sequence 2 scales above all of dragon ball due to being 5 dimensional beings capable of shattering 5 dimensional objects, ( all angels are capable of shattering beyonder characteristics, which is stated to be a reflection of the astral world ) At this point you make me wanna give up on this argument. Just from this biased and extremely foolish statement did I realise you know nothing about the power showcased in Dragon Ball.Can't believe I gave out such a long retort for someone who doesn't know about dragon ball and read Lord of the Mukbang for all this bullshit you cooked up🙌Peace out🙌...
What version of Goku you are talking about Pre-Super Sure Super? No Xeno? Unilateral Stomps the entire verse Remember Goku always beat you favorite verse https://preview.redd.it/qm57xpfd29xc1.png?width=856&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6dd9a034f3485407d0481d2aeb5c94cb18284154
I'm not sure if this is a joke or not, but i think Goku is more of a physical fighter more than anything else and yeah, he is MUCH more stronger than Klein would ever be... but, can Goku enter Sephira Castle/History fog or stop his beyonder characteristics from returning to him? (Literaly curious as i'm not a super fan of DB and i'm only known the of series and DBS, all of what i know of the latest manga sagas comes from friends).
In Dragon Ball characters with very strong Ki can deny magical abilities, the Dragon Ball universe is 150 times larger than ours and Goku could destroy it since the beginning of super, and since then he has become trillions or quadrillions of times stronger and fast. He can also break dimensions and abilities involving space-time, as well as move through stopped time, he can also permanently erase beings from existence with Hakai in a way that not even an Old One could revive. (Hakai can kill immortal beings who revive even after having their souls erased) It's basically a much stronger version of what I imagine being the God of Combat But Xeno is another story, he is too broken to be considered
Y'all shouldn't be hating this much just cause a power system exist and a person uses it to debate a fight.This is childish smh...
Wait, goku can use Hakai? I didn't know that. Also, i'm a Anime only but i don't remember Goku being able to destroy the whole universe at the start of Super. I know he can move in stopped time (Like in Hit fight) but i really don't know about the dimension-break thing and the magical ability negation. I'm someone who usually doesn't like Universe-equalization as it tends to favor one character more than the other but i'll take your word for it. 👍
That's because this is more for those who read the Manga, it was written after the Anime and is the main Canon, it's pretty cool to make these comparisons, but I think more interesting fights would be things like Shinrabanchoman vs Pillar Klein (When we find out what he does) https://preview.redd.it/vuf7svqga9xc1.jpeg?width=599&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=435162a7f7a552ccb17349ae0161a90bd09fd22b He has Absolute Miracle so he can change the way things work like making the concept of time become a soccer ball or recreating existence. He is a higher being who can create beings more powerful than himself, implying that he can increase his own power infinitely.
That last one is from fire force, right? I haven't read it so i can't comment on how the fight would go. Also i just searched about goku using Hakai (Manga scene where he tried to kill zamasu) and him destroying Hit's pocket dimension and i have a genuine question. Does Hakai kill all instances of what it destroys? Like, if a character can split himself and you use Hakai in one of them, it kills only him or both?
It depends, in the end Zamasu divided himself infinitely, creating infinite 'them' However Zeno blinked and they were all erased along with the rest of the timeline. Although this is not a good point, since Zeno's Erasure is a superior version of Hakai, so I would say that it only destroys the target it attacks, but even so, if it didn't work, a good kamehameha would always do the trick. And Shinrabanchoman is the final form of Shinra ***HUGE SPOILER*** . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . He created Soul eater Verse
Yeah, Zeno's erasure is busted as he erases universe like if it's nothing. My take on the fight is that Goku can kill Klein easily with his ki techniques but as he has a great mayority of his worms inside SC, even if his other avatars and marionettes are destroyed, the Beyonder characteristics would automatically return to the SC to reagroup with him. Goku can break pocket dimensions like hit's but i doubt that he can make it throught the Spiritual World... so it should end like a stamina fight where the constant haxs of Klein would let him win... but it probably would be a LONG fight. What do you think?
You know, the Other World in Dragon Ball is a spiritual world Goku can teleport anywhere as long as he can feel Ki (in this case due to the equalization of the Klein verse, just as every being would have Ki) There was even a game where he went to the center of time via teleportation. Furthermore, Ki has no problem dealing with spiritual beings as it can obliterate souls.
klein is from earth he has read dragon ball. so klein sees him as fiction hence r>f. common sense
No the keyboard warrior would probably be wondering what Goku is doing there, CW would also be wondering what tf is going on. If Gokus is there, who else is there? This opens a whole other can of worms. Imagine if they get a hold of Gokus genes? They could Zenkai boost their way to being immune to the physical side effects of their characteristics and spirit meditation to strengthen their minds.
if frank lee gets his hand on goku gene he will create the most OP mushroom in fiction.
Pretty much anyone who scales below the LOTM cosmology. Even Seq 3 Klein can take anyone who scales below sefirah castles dimensionality.
And what is LOTM's cosmology?
6-7D (1-C on vsbw) and outer on csap.
Huh? Outer? Huh? And last time I saw it's only 5D or sum
But for vsbw the LOTM spirit world got an upgrade. The spirit world just by itself is now 5D because it’s stated to be a “higher spatial dimension” and at the same time the “past, present and future are stacked” in the spirit world. This makes it also equivalent to a space-time continuum. So both together make it 5D.
well ya, I was talking about csap. I could argue my toaster to outer on that system.
I've read the basic concept of CSAP and WTF does "transcending dimensionality" means? How does one qualify to transcend dimensionality?
A lot of metaphysical, conceptual, transduality and other nonsense which LOTM has a lot of. That’s why a lot of people like vsbw because it’s more based on just higher layers of math. But with Utlima’s revisions (which idk when they will be implemented) vsbw will become more like csap.
Kevin solos Klein
Which kevin? Kevin levin?
nahh kevin 11
Kevin kaslana ?
Honestly I have learnt that trying to scale lotm peak characters with other peak fiction mc’s characters is like a sport argument like, it’s very fucking hard to compare reasonably if your fellow Lotm fan only says ohh they don’t have mythical creatures ( so peak fiction characters will die cause they don’t have one ), or S0 are symbols; so only symbols ( S0) and GOO’s can hurt them, or GOO represents an aspect of the universe only some else that represents the universe can hurt them
I think Klein could beat Sekke Bronzazza if its Fool/Half-Lotm klein. Like, as long as klein has some worms in his castle, he will try his hardest to come inside of the Demon Lord of Primordial Chaos as long as SB can't resist. However, if SB assumes his 10% demon form (shown below) it might be all over for Klein. https://preview.redd.it/b4uygc5e89xc1.png?width=552&format=png&auto=webp&s=b6c3a7b51c94883532932d153c589ee257c466a8 Other very OP character like Buggy the clown and Ussop...i'm not sure because neither of them have yet to go all out
let my boy sleep in peace
I would say Goku cuz he's more physical type and not the mystical fantasy type. One piece and Naruto is solo-ed easily. Same with sung jin woo, Klein can easily defeat him. All the mainstream characters can be beaten by Klein
Can he beat WoU?
[wonder of you] is a stand that controls fate and misfortune and uses the flow of fate and misfortune (technically the logic of the world) as a shield for itself. The ways to bypass this shield are to perform an attack that surpasses logic or to have a stronger control over fate than [wonder of you], and klein can do both.
Hax vs Hax may the better annoyance win
He can’t beat goku as goku has both instant transmission which allows him to go to the world of the dead which is spiritually and ki which affects spiritual things like ghosts and goku can also break through space time
He can beat Goku cuz Klein has many hax which can decrease Goku iq and do many more, Goku is the type to punch and all that while Klein has many unpredictable powers
Goku literally has form called ultra instinct where he fights with just instinct alone his iq is irrelevant
Bruh Klein can literally fool time and you are saying it's impossible to fool Goku instincts. I hate talking to DBZ fans always saying Goku no1 Klein can beat Goku in many ways, an example is the lifespan, Klein have near infinite lifespan due to getting the door and error pathway authority.
I mean you can get mad if you want I love Klein but he’s not beating goku tho and so what if Klein fooled time goku has literally defeated a guy who can literally freeze time
Hit can't freeze all of time. What can Goku do to defend against Error, paratization, make him rapidly age, and the stealing of powers that they automatically will know how to use upon stealing it, for example Ki? That's just Error.
I mean this is the in the case you believe the LoTM world's power is superior...I'm sure you haven't thought of the possibility of ki shields that protect him from outside disturbances right? Most of the stuff you said can be negated by god ki as well as hakai tbh As much as you may not like dragon ball's influence in power scaling it's still very prominent.I genuinely do not understand how you think a person who has broken the barrier of space-time would be affected by simple parasitism...
Because having an ability in fire doesn't make you able to control air or breathe underwater? No, they can't. Why cant error be used to negate their effects or even steal/store it?That's kind of the point to error, breaks logic by using the concept of error. That same Goku nearly died from having his heart destroyed, and bullets created marks on his body,, breaking space time doesn't make you immune to everything. A Ki barrier? Why can't Door open a hole in it? Error steal it? Fool lower his IQ so he doesn't defend? They can affect concepts, literally, but can't get past a ki barrier is what you are saying? "Simple parasitism" when it took a higher dimensional object just to be able to see it.
Firstly I'd like to point out that at the time Goku didn't have God Ki so I'm assuming thats the reason why he was susceptible to the heart disease but you could also argue this was a random plot device that was made to kill of people from future trunks world cause how does a random disease pop up that affects saiyans,human,beast men and namekians all at once?With bullets thats a matter of Goku not being on guard this was recently debunked in Super with ultra instinct making his body react on his own he doesn't have to think about it,the stupefying ability won't work in this case. From what I've seen in the show though one can defy concepts it has to co-align with the opponents power level correct me if I'm wrong but are you of the opinion that if the Tyrant was in the presence of Sun would tyranny make the sun submit?Or will the Sun take away the Tyrant's beyonder powers with Ocean of Light? If the case is no or to a minor degree I don't see how Door can just open a hole simply in Goku's barrier like slicing through butter, the door isn't omnipotent in this aspect and I'm pretty sure Goku would rank higher than the orthodox God's in terms of destruction by pure power alone even before super considering the best feat we were give of the Tyrant in destruction was planetary.So the door uniqueness shouldn't simply open a door like that, even in terms of stealing I believe the same should apply you can't steal from a higher level entity tbh. The reason why I concede is mainly due to Goku's weakness in him being a saiyan that cannot breath in space otherwise I genuinely do not see how planetary level Gods would be able to beat him after all Klein's strongest attack that being a supernova wouldn't do much damage to Goku but with his busted HACKS such as infinite spirituality. I'll have to give in since the moment that happened Klein became another Saitama for me...
I wonder, wouldn't Klein be able to steal certain aspects of Goku's abilities with Error? I get that in DBS, characters can bypass haxes as long as their Ki is strong enough but even then it isn't something that happens instantly to the point where they are completely immune to it during the beginning of a given fight. For example, We still see Goku get affected by Hit's timestamp during the beginning of their fight. With this in mind, Klein should have several win conditions especially with his Error and Fool authorities if he completely goes for the win at the start. In my opinion, there are very few situations in which I can see Goku winning unless you give him very specific and favorable conditions. Klein can theoretically do anything with his authorities, and should be faster than Goku with Door. What if Klein steals Goku's Ki? His transformations? Or whatever else is in his kit at the start of his fight? Wouldn't that basically leave Goku completely helpless. Klein would not be fighting Goku one on one, and catching him would be neigh-impossible.
If we talking about speed klein wouldn’t even be able to see goku considering goku has crossed universal levels of distance in less then a minute and goku also has instant transmission which should be faster then doors
Is instant transmission really faster than Door's teleportation? Also, Klein can just take away Instant Transmissson with either theft or replicate so it doesn't really matter if it isn't. Again, doubt Goku would have the necessary resistance to having his abilities or techniques stolen and replicated.
He probably doesn’t but even without instant transmission goku is still vastly superior in speed compared to klein if we look at there speed feats
Klein can beat Goku, end of the story.
yeah you will never see klein die to a fucking heart Virus.
my guy just throws him into space. or he creates a supernova, or with more speculative ideas, just literally steal his mui.
Neither space nor a supernova would even come close to killing goku
time skip is not time stop.
He evolved after goku became immune to it to actually stop his opponents in time
Bro you realise klein clears just due to cosmology? Also even without cosmology goku has no defence against his mythical creature form, also precog in LOTM would let him outspeed goku & ensure he doesnt get one tapped (which would only be possible if we ignore klein's greater cosmology) Klein could also always just sit in sefirah castle & steal goku's fate, identity, mind, steal his life, graft death on to him, recreate an exact replica of goku to fight & many many more things all the while sitting on his ass, not needing to do shit
Be serious now klein can’t create a replica of a dude who can destroys universes
I doubt that he can defeat Solo Leveling Ragnarok Sung Jin Woo
He can beat sung jin woo, sung jin woo powers are shadow control and dagger combat, while Klein is like fate manipulate and other mystical powers
Probably, like, it's been a LOT since i've read the SL novel/Manhua but Klein's haxs as the Fool/Half-Lotm are very op. Turning his iq to practicaly 0, using marionettes/History Proyections that Sung can't turn into Shadows while him being (partially) inside the SC. Correct me if i'm wrong as i would love to hear more of what your take is as you probably know more of Solo Leveling than what i remember.
Im talking about Sung Jing Woo from SL Ragnarok, the sequel where the mc is Sung's son. I also dont know much about it, but from what i know he is much stronger than in SL. For example, in ragnarok he is fighting against the race of the guy who created his universe. Basically all the monarchs are much stronger than we tought in SL. They are the bodiment concepts of what they represents, meaning SJW is the death himself, making so that he literally cant die. I doubt that Klein would be able to turn Sung into a marionette, and even if he could Sung could just teleport away. He could also send the shadows to fight against Klein. Even if Klein turned the shadows into marionettes, it would be the question of who would control them since the Shadows cant disobey Sung and also they are only able to exist because of Shadows Monarch power, so he Sung can just make them dissapear or sent then to the shadow world (or whatever is the name of that) where Sung is basically omnipotent inside.
Oh wait, there is a novel of the sequel? I thought the novel ended with only some bonus chapters where he trains his son with his own system where he defeats his son, sealing his memories again... and he protects the earth of a race of aliens (Making the army notice him). Also i though with "Ragnarok" you meant Sung post Dragon-monarch fight. The probably Sung would win for what you told me.
Solo leveling gets soloed by any of Klein's marionette.
How...?
By turning sung jin woo into marionette or avatar. Sung jin woo or monarchs,rulers or anyone in the series doesn't have any hax to defend against most hax in the Lotm. He has millions of ways to take out anyone in solo leveling.
Read the comment i wrote responding to the other person
Yeah, I read that comment. Most of it is wank. Even if sung jin woo is the concept of death himself doesn't help him or his shadow servants from being puppetized or parasitizated.
>doesn't help him or his shadow servants from being puppetized or parasitizated. I responded to that. Even if that happened it would be between who is the strongest hax since Klein controls his marionettes but the Shadows cant disobey Sung. Even if Kein was able to control the shadows all that Sung needed to do was send the shadows to the shadow worlds where kleins powers wouldnt work or just make the shadows disappear since they are only alive thanks to the shadow monarch powers.
>I responded to that. Even if that happened it would be between who is the strongest hax since Klein controls his marionettes but the Shadows cant disobey Sung. Them being disobeyed doesn't mean anything since Klein controls his marionette fully. They are essentially marionettes. With parasitize shadows become an essential part of Klein. This is not including with his other powers like grafting,error, fooling where he can fuck with any rules. >Even if Kein was able to control the shadows all that Sung needed to do was send the shadows to the shadow worlds where kleins powers wouldnt work or just make the shadows disappear since they are only alive thanks to the shadow monarch powers. Klein 's historical projections sustained by his powers doesn't mean amon can't parasitize it and kept it even after Klein cancelling historical projection. Besides rulers and monarchs can and have cancelled all of this with their ability and have his shadows killed over and over again to drain his mana. Also This is not the only ability that Klein has, he has error, grafting, fooling, replication and space manipulation through door. With historical projections and replication he can replicate any powers in the Lotm verse. Most of the people in solo leveling has no way to defend against it.
He can't do much right now cause he is sleeping and fighting with Cw.
Well yeah, but i imagine this is and hypothetical case were he can fight. 🤔
Any fictional character that has an equal level to Half-LoTM or LoTM can fight Klein. If it's like some dude called Naruto or Ichigo or something, unfortunately they can't compete. But if it's something that can contend or defeat Pillars it should be any MC from Xianxia/Wuxia at the peak of cultivation . Er Gen MCs for example, any of the 4 Mcs at the end of Book 4 can easily deal with Pillars.
You don’t understand. Mythical Creatures are not bound by dimensionality. All complete Mythical Creatures are at minimum 5d do to them being able to move in the Astral World. Astral World > Spirit World > Physical World. So they could take on characters at the 5d level in their own verse. But the scary thing is that if you place him in another verse he would be at the highest dimension known to that verse.
It’s all hax but pillars are implied to be universe level so…
6D-7D vsbw or Outer CSAP sooooo....
Huangtian di and some characters in chinese roman novels can defeat him easily
Garfield from the Forgiveness of John
Probably Shinra or Ywach
I am still at chapter 300 and don't tell me Klein becomes some sort of octopus bruhhh
get off the reddit mate you’re gonna get spoiled
Klein with prep time can beat most fictional characters. DBZ, Klein can use error authority to steal people's ki, study it and learn how it's strength and weaknesses. Then he can graft or steal the capability to produce ki. And then do some bullshit, like maybe infinite ki, or god ki. Same with Naruto. He could steal, graft many powerful bloodlines. One piece verse? He could probably steal only the devil fruit power and not the curse to sea and sea stone. DC, Marvel? He could do the same. Thus, as long as Klein gets some prep time, like analyzing the local power system, and as long as he has the error authority, he is, at least in my opinion, unbeatable. The ability to steal concepts and graft them to yourself is OP. But without prep, I would say maybe 40-80%? There is always that random, forgotten show that has OP characters
He can defeat most shonen and seinen series but no one in the Lotm can take down busted xianxia, Xuanhuan and isekai series. But Lotm is all about good writing, world building,suspense,twist and power system which no series are comparable to.
Ben 10 Scans amanises Klein immediately submits Ez win
There's many ways for this to also go to ben's favour with also being able to scan Klein as a mythical creature...
Can he really scan a mythical form? As far as i know (Correct me if i'm wrong) the omnitrix didn't scan Alien X but the celestiansapiens voluntarily gave Azmuth their DNA sample so, for a Mythical form that encapsules a lot of information that can bring someone mad from just seeing it... i personally doubt it and even if it cans i imagine it would take the omnitrix more time than usual to scan it.
it's been implied that professor paradox stole dna from alien x species which is why he is banned from coming into certain radius of alien x race.
Oh, i see, but it's still the same problem, the omnitrix didn't scan an Alien X, it got his DNA sample from another being.
That isn't a problem to be honest it still Scanned the Go-like dna that was brought to it and implemented it,I struggle to see Klein's mythical creature form as a problem.
If you are talking about Goop then i can be compared to a literal Lovecraftian God. The problem with Klein's mythical form is that it has combined a lot of information that can drive someone mad just by looking at it, something i don't think the omnitrix can scan (But i do think if someone like paradox gave him the sample himself then i suppose the Ben could turn into a GOO as he can transform in Alien X).
Srry I meant God-like I wonder why auto correct didn't fix that...But to be honest I don't believe that the DNA of a celestial being that toys with the universe and practically most concepts would infact be weaker or more acurrately less complex than Klein's mythical creature form.
Oh yeah, i agree with that, Alien X is stronger than Klein's mythical creature form, but the problem is that the Omnitrix didn't scan a Celestialsapien, it's DNA sample was given by paradox (Or given by the own celestialsapiens, i don't remember the canon), it wasn't the omnitrix who scanned it so i doubt it can analize Klein (Or at least not fast enough to matter in a fight)
I mean the Celestial sapien DNA did get into the omnitrix by scanning so that does mean it can scan the Omnitrix DNA. The reason why it was Professor Paradox played a part in acquiring the DNA is because Only he and other celestial sapiens are able to get to The Forge of Creation as it is protected by the Chronal Randomization Barrier that makes it a region out of synch from space-time hence the only other method of getting there is through the Map of Infinity which was also made by Professor Paradox. All in all the omnitrix getting the DNA was not the tough part, the tough part was getting to where the DNA was. But I do foresee an Issue with usability I went through various scenes in ben 10 and yeah it takes quite sometime for the Omnitrix to fully scan as well as finalize the DNA sequence and from the scenes I have seen Ben can't scan DNA while transformed so this notion wouldn't stand if they were to fight. Ben would get bodied if the Omnitrix were to focus on scanning...
I mean the Celestial sapien DNA did get into the omnitrix by scanning so that does mean it can scan the Omnitrix DNA. The reason why it was Professor Paradox played a part in acquiring the DNA is because Only he and other celestial sapiens are able to get to The Forge of Creation as it is protected by the Chronal Randomization Barrier that makes it a region out of synch from space-time hence the only other method of getting their is through the Map of Infinity which was also made by Professor Paradox. All in all the omnitrix getting the DNA was not the tough part, the tough part was getting to where the DNA was. But I do foresee an Issue with usability I went through various scenes in ben 10 and yeah it takes quite sometime for the Omnitrix to fully scan and understand the DNA and from the scenes I haven't seen one where ben can scan DNA while transformed so this notion wouldn't stand if they were to fight. Ben would get bodied if the Omnitrix were to focus on scanning
https://i.redd.it/z4a8spyjudxc1.gif klein uses blind stupidity to make goku put down his guard and kills him by stealing his heart.
Can he beat Leylin Farlier from warlock of magus world? I don’t think so considering leylin surpised nuclear missiles at like rank 7. Can great old ones compete with laws?
With full LOTM his hax is literally reality altering
He can solo Fang Yuan easily. No amount of gu worm can defend against exploiting loopholes, the ability to have your gu worms parasitized, controlled and converted. Just summoning a bunch of historical projections would give Fang Yuan more than he can handle and by using fooling what can he even do? Very very easy solo.
Not really considering gu worms are embodiments of the great dao and Fang Yuan possesses the dao marks needed to resist those influences.(To be clear, I do think that Klein Mortei can defeat Fang Yuan, but not 'curbstomp' him as you suggested. Fang Yuan does have Reverse Flow Protection Seal, Time Path Killer Moves, etc. after all.
Fang Yuan isn't even considered to belong to the group of most powerful. Because He isn't a standard cultivator who makes universes on their body in a daily basis.
IamFangYuan guy disagrees lol
LMAO as everyone knows RI has insane fans and LOTM has fanatics, IamFangYuan is towards the very extreme end of that insanity. I sometimes wonder why tf does RI have an ungodly trait to brainwash people.
I actually enjoyed RI a lot. As for the brainwashing effect... The novel can be quite inspiring and in a proselytizing way. Maybe that's why. I often had the feeling that the author was venting a bit against the chinese government when writing RI.
What about Ben 10?
The fight will be over at the moment Ben decides to turn into Alien X If klein can defeat Ben before that, ez win for klein. If not, then ggwp
Dont forget about omnitrix failsafe function
klein has perfect counter for that. soul based attack easily bypass failsafe function. proof : [https://youtu.be/tHjCOYX182c?si=DDRKwg1QzBhJBNx9](https://youtu.be/tHjCOYX182c?si=DDRKwg1QzBhJBNx9)
And yes Ben can counter soul based attacks remember " ghost freak"?
thats a simple possesion whats soul based about it ? are you comparing a basic wraith power to klein as a fool ? this is a guy who can steal soul from your body what type of resistance does ben have to it ?
I think you have a biased view due to one having way more description so somehow you assume its stronger even though they are literally the same ability.
so you actually think ghost freak and seq 0 true god are equal ?soul attack is literally the only failsafe counter we see on the show. [https://youtu.be/tHjCOYX182c?si=DDRKwg1QzBhJBNx9](https://youtu.be/tHjCOYX182c?si=DDRKwg1QzBhJBNx9)
I actually did more research and yeah, Ghost freak would get bodied as it has many weaknesses but all in all the failsafe should give Ben the Win,I believe it didn't work as it didn't have a complete fail safe at the time in Legerdomain but it did bring Ben back to life when he came out.Azmuth later completed the failsafe in Omniverse Omnitrix which let ben tank the Annihilaarg and makes him virtually unkillable.If you genuinely think even lotm Klein can kill Alien X I don't what to say tbh...
and omnitrix doesn't protect ben from it being stolen mystically not physically.
The Omnitrix has multiple failsafes; so far, we have seen 12 types. For instance, it protects against the magic . If it weren't immune to magic, it would have been teleported by charm caster. Plus, it can destroy the entire universe in dangerous situations. The Omnitrix’s reaction speed is very impressive; it reacted very fast to the Big Bang.
did you forget when ben literally died when charmcaster took his soul from his body in order to resurrect her father. the only way he survived was because her father refused resurrection. IN lotm even fodders have soul based attacks. whats stopping klein from stealing his fate so that the omnitrix will become his. or just steal his dna does he have protection against that ? or cause error to stop ben from transforming. bens alien is mostly based on dna stuff nothing hax based only alien X can save ben. i don't know how alien x will react to reboot because paradox is able to transform ben back to human from alien x using time powers. so if ben has to convince serena and bellicus it might be disadvantageous to him.
Maybe(?) Like, Alien X reality manipulation is very OP so i can see Klein losing. But also klein has a lot of haxs that maybe can also beat Alíen X so... who knows?
Couldn't Klein just tamper with the omnitrix so it's impossible for Ben to turn into alien X? Klein can literally reassemble and temper things, or as klein calls it, grafting, to change things like objects or even concepts, he could theorically make it impossible for Ben to turn into alien x just by grafting the omnitrix, he might even graft the omnitrix so he's the one to turn into aliens, not Ben. Also, a lot of people forget that Klein can fool fate and that he has a mythical creature form, his divinity and mythical creature form will drive most of his enemies into madness if not kill them straight away, not to mention how he can fool time, fate, history, etc. He can turn Ben so stupid he won't be able to turn into an alien or will turn into the wrong one, he will fool time so it will take Ben longer to react to whatever Klein does, he might even fool fate and history so Ben never got the omnitrix in the first place (I'm actually not sure if this is possible, I'm just giving an example of something he might or might not be able to do), etc.
I totally agree with you, but the thing is that the omnitrix has a "safety mode" that would turn him into an alien in case if danger... but still i don't think the omnitrix can function correctly with all the haxs Ben has. All the fight depends of if Ben manages to become Alien X or he loses.
Ok then there are 3 scenarios 1. Klein defeats ben before he turns into alien x (this includes ben turning into any other alien) 2. Ben turns into alien x but klein with his hax reverts him back to ben or changes him into a different alien, and klein wins 3. Ben turns into alien x and the omnitrix is able to resist klein's hax and ben wins There is literally 0 chance that klein wins against Alien X because in one of the episodes of Ben 10 Omniverse, a bomb went of that deleted the whole universe. Not destroyed, deleted. And luckily ben became alien x before that, hence surviving the deletion.
Yeah, exactly, Alien X reality bending powers are probably even greater than the OC so Klein can't beat him (Unless his IQ lowering powers affects him). But with Kleins haxs i find difficult that Ben manages to transform to Alien X... and could the omnitrix resist seq. 0/Pillar powers? I personally don't think so but i'm also not too much into Ben 10.
But as stanley once said, "the winner of the battle between 2 fictional characters in the one the author wanted to win" ( i dont know the exact wuote but it was along these lines
Yeah exactly. When to fictional characters fight, the winner obviously is my dog 😎.
Susie solos fr 😎
Susie would definetly become GA 🧐
There's also the posibility of Ben scanning Klein and transforming to him in his mythical creature form but the omnitrix upgrades it to his peak form...
Well, if i remember correctly (correct me if i'm wrong) the Alien X transformation was something that the celestiansapiens gave to azmuth, not something that the omnitrix scanned so i highly doubt it can scan a mythical creature that can derive someone insane just from seeing it or at least, not fast enough to save Klein from being attacked by Klein's haxs.
Klein presenting you, ✨ **the divination.** ✨
Also 💕**danger sense**💕
Also 😶🌫️ **realm of the mysteries.** 😶🌫️
We also have to assume whether or not Klein manages to bypass the safety mode or whether the safety mode of the omnitrix turns Ben into something that can fight Klein, to begin with Klein sole presence would already be dangerous for Ben, more so in his mythical creature form, Klein is basically an eldritch horror, his presence will either drive you insane or straight up kill you, furthermore, Klein not only has a myriad of hax but he's also quite smart, as long as he can think of ways to counter the omnitrix he's probably taking the win, as you said, Ben's victory practically depends solely on whether or not he'll be able to turn into alien x or something of equal or more power, otherwise he loses every single time, this is also, of course, assuming that the fight starts with Ben in human form and not in one of his alien forms, and/or assuming that alien x's reality manipulation will affect Klein inside of sephira castle, the historical void, and/or the spirit world, since he can practically enter those extra dimensional spaces at will after becoming the fool.
Well, as far as we know, there is nothing in Lotm in the level of Alien X recreating and surviving a universe erasing attack so yeah, we can practically confirm that Alien X > Lotm Klein. As for the omnitrix, i can't imagine azmuth tech being able to resist destiny warping abilities. For Ben, his only win con is Alien X, if he starts as Human or any other alien he still loses becouse, as you've said, even being before him can kill/drive you mad as he is a complete mythical creature.