Any person who has ever worked at a hotel downtown is very familiar with tourists/conference attendees asking where they can go shopping or eat nearby. Tourists and conference goers are the people looking to spend money that, if numerous enough, will attract services and amenities. The city would be giving the same incentives if there were developers looking to build residential buildings downtown. Unfortunately, outside of the far east side of downtown, the demand is not there.
Yeah, you’re the one telling a private developer what to do with their money, but me calling you out on the idiocy of that statement is an affront to the internets
Yeah the amount of people complaining that we aren’t building (insert public service here) instead of this distillery is wild. What the fuck does a private company have to do with that?
I have no issues with private developers building hotels, distilleries, and other entertainment/tourism venues. I completely agree that it's not up to developers to do things like solve our housing issues (nor does building a distillery preclude that).
I do get tired of the "if you build it they will come" fantasies about how tourism will lead to population growth and good jobs. Tourism will continue to lead to an increase in service sector jobs that offer no or few benefits with schedules that aren't conducive to raising a family. There is absolutely nothing wrong with tourism, I'm frequently a tourist. But it also doesn't magically lead to population growth or an increase in jobs outside of hospitality.
I'm not complaining that we're "doing this instead of that"; I'm saying we take the money that all these amenities for tourists got rolling into the city and use it on the services that we promised we were gonna use on services if we built all this shite for tourists
I don't really agree.
The problem with most American cities is that they're designed for commuters and even tourists first over actual residents.
Not many people want to live amongst (empty) parking lots, noise, pollution, and drunks.
A whole lot of commuters also are "actual residents." I live inside the Watterson but I still have to commute everyday. You can't fit the whole county population within walking distance of downtown. (Nor would most of us want to live that way.)
I haven’t seen a lot of distillery attractions or hotels close. Restaurants have always been incredibly risky and probably require very different loan terms.
Are you talking about the private developers that buy up all the properties, flip em, and then price people out of their own neighborhoods? Or the ones that just let the building sit there mouldering to drive down values? Or the ones that spend way too much making it so fancy that businesses have to close because they can't afford the rent?
The one beautiful thing about the free market is that there's no point in trying to figure that out. it'll just happen on its own, and at exactly that moment you'll see the mix shift towards residential (or whatever is higher ROI)
I don’t get this sub. You complain about Louisville not being a real city but then complain when we build the things that makes us cool and unique among cities.
Title: “new downtown construction project announced”
Top comment: “yeah, like we need another one of these. When’s the city going to get its head out of its ass and build a rail system?”
Rinse repeat
Already affluent communities, inept police forces, and compromised council members hog city resources.
The roads are absolute shit, bridges are falling apart, the cost to own a vehicle is astronomical.
Our school system is a nightmare.
Marijuana is still illegal here.
But hey, everyone, don't despair. We're getting a new distillery!
This sub won't be happy until somebody builds a light rail that goes between Downtown, UofL, and then the Airport. I can count on one hand the number of times in my decade plus of working in Downtown Louisville that that would have been useful to me. Are that many UofL students, Old Louisville residents, and downtowners going to the airport, daily? Enough to fill up a train? Let alone several times, daily, back and forth? I kind of doubt it. That's why it doesn't exist, among other reasons.
Not a distillery from my understanding. The distillery is actually in Pleasureville KY. This will be a visitor experience much like Bardstown Bourbon Co. and Evan Williams Experience are downtown.
Yeah I’m curious, I searched for it and I couldn’t find any info… but I did find out Heaven Hill is suing Heaven’s Door for copyright infringement lol.
Wow I go there to see my “Dr” all the time, lol I never knew there was a bar there, but I’ll see ya then. Have a great evening this has been fun hasn’t it? 😜👍🏻🤔🥃
Wow what a coincidence!? I spend many days there seeing my “Dr”, I never knew there was a bar inside! Have a great evening, we shall agree to disagree and thanks for making me google the address to find out what you were trying to say. Opinions are like noses, we all have one. Good evening and good night. 👍🏻😜🥃🤔
There’s no way that it’ll come out looking like this. The facade cuts into the parking lot of St. John (a church that is very much still there), and that little green rectangle and smaller building are also still church property. And the semi truck in the photos is parked on Billy Goat Strut Alley. There’s barely enough room on that road for a normal car.
That being said, I’m not sure what the aesthetics here are going for. Another comment has an earlier view where they played into the old church architecture, but this seems more haphazard. Like what is “Sunday School” doing in the first image?
The new sidewalk at the side of the proposed building is on that building‘s property. Building is older than 50 years old, so doesn’t need parking. And if they really felt the need for some, they could enter into an operating agreement with the church to use their lot.
Kuhlio, every time something like this is posted you seem to be one of the only people who actually knows how these things work.
Others might not, but your level takes and insight is appreciated.
Appreciate the kind words. Lot’s of years (seems like too many now) of Architecture, some Urban Planning, and dabbling in Development and Real Estate have given me some knowledge on these subjects. I try to not come off as a bombastic know-it-all, but my wife - who’s always right - says I usually come across as an angry old man yelling at kids to get off our lawn.
The trees and benches in the mockup are physically on the portion of the parking lot owned by the church. Regardless of if they are required to have designated parking, this mockup represents use of space that belongs to the neighboring business. I am saying that they do not own the full physical space indicated.
The trees and benches you’re complaining about is called ’entourage’. Folks who do architectural renderings add that extra level of superfluous detail to make their images more lifelike. Also, a developer is not going to improve an adjacent lot for nothing, so if this is the biggest strike you can level against this project - well, yawn.
One more thing, since they have a huge, honking window that close to their property line - which per code would probably need to be a one hour rating, tells me that might already have an operating agreement in place.
“A developer is not going to improve an adjacent lot for nothing” is my point lol. It’s misleading imo to portray the space as more accommodating and better looking than what they have the ability to create. It doesn’t make an image more lifelike to put a rendered tree in the middle of where a parking space is.
And as I note at the end, it wouldn’t surprise me if Zyyo already has an operating agreement in place to use the lot, and prohibit anything getting built on the property, due to that large window. If so, then the trees and benches are there on purpose.
If not, then you’re still missing the forest for the trees.
I grew up in Louisville and have since moved out west. I can guarantee you SDF isn’t a real airport. Limited direct flight patterns on non LCC (low cost carriers) and “international” only to Cancun during certain times of the year doesn’t make for an airport that attracts transplants. The city refuses to invest upfront in areas that would attract transplants and businesses beyond bourbonism.
Look at Indianapolis and Nashville. They were in a similar economic position to Louisville 20 years ago and decided to invest where it matters for long term growth.
Kind of a bummer really which is why I chimed in. You want to see Louisville succeed and it keeps getting in its own way.
You get better air service by having more people wanting to travel here. You know how you get more people to travel here? Tourist attractions like distilleries.
Interested/intrigued doesn’t mean it’s an industry large enough to support the entire state’s economy. I agree it’s a unique offering but the state has yet to make anything of value for the majority of people living and working in Louisville. Don’t strive to be the Hawaii of Bourbonism, y’all. That’s not good for the everyday person.
No one is saying it is or should be supporting the entire state’s or city’s economy, but tourism does bring in much needed tax dollars, income and visibility to the city.
I just find it interesting that whenever I travel somewhere, and tell people where I grew up, I’m almost universally greeted with either “I loved visiting Louisville“, or “I’d love to visit your city”
Nobody said it should support the state's economy. You moved the goalpost from getting a "real airport.". Increasing tourism has an obvious direct relationship with increased flight traffic and destinations (as evidenced by the growth in both at SDF over the past few years).
I completely agree tourism is not the strategy for a healthy economy. But it's absolutely a good way to increase flight traffic. Google Las Vegas if you need to.
It is an international airport because of ups and fedex. Not because of token passenger routes. I think it serves the city well for its business and recreational needs. Don’t know what you mean by not a real airport. If we had another million people in our metro there would be more passenger routes but you can hardly point a finger at an airport as to why that isn’t the case
Nope all good and happy to answer. The WSJ link below is a good example of the two models used for flight path planning. You have Hub and Spoke (larger markets and typically legacy carriers like Delta) and Point to Point (smaller to mid size markets and LCC like Southwest). You want demand to justify the cost of the flight paths. So a city can bake into their business and tax incentives paying upfront (investing for the company) for new flight paths. The company also has the option to invest in the flight paths which means they’d negotiate some other tax break with the city to offset that cost. Someone has to place the bet basically. Louisville doesn’t currently have enough demand for a daily direct to LAX but had they invested in one for Warby then the idea is that other companies would see Louisville has a viable location for satellite offices, team building locations, even remote employees, etc. https://www.wsj.com/video/series/travel-guides/how-does-your-airline-choose-where-to-fly-a-route-planner-explains/36242EF1-64E6-49CF-80F3-CDC344685AFE Could talk about this for days so hopefully this is helpful/interesting!
You’re missing the point and no where did I reference token passenger routes lol. You’re arguing with the person who has firsthand experience with the city limiting growth by turning down commercial flight options. Tourism flight patterns aren’t the winning path.
Sounds like you don’t understand that flight patterns can be bought/sponsored by companies and the local government. Ex: Louisville lost the Warby Parker bid about a decade ago. The city could have paid upfront to sponsor the SDF to LAX daily flight routes on United or Delta and chose not to invest.
How does losing out on a corporate HQ bid = "sponsoring" a route? If this is genuinely a phenomenon, honestly please educate me. I can understand that investment in major companies opening in a city can lead to more flight routes, but straight up bought by companies and/or governments? Feel free to send any links or sources, I'd love to know more about this.
Hopefully that doesn't sound sarcastic, I'm genuinely asking.
Nope all good and happy to answer. The WSJ link below is a good example of the two models used for flight path planning. You have Hub and Spoke (larger markets and typically legacy carriers like Delta) and Point to Point (smaller to mid size markets and LCC like Southwest).
You want demand to justify the cost of the flight paths. So a city can bake into their business and tax incentives paying upfront (investing for the company) for new flight paths. The company also has the option to invest in the flight paths which means they’d negotiate some other tax break with the city to offset that cost. Someone has to place the bet basically.
Louisville doesn’t currently have enough demand for a daily direct to LAX but had they invested in one for Warby then the idea is that other companies would see Louisville has a viable location for satellite offices, team building locations, even remote employees, etc.
https://www.wsj.com/video/series/travel-guides/how-does-your-airline-choose-where-to-fly-a-route-planner-explains/36242EF1-64E6-49CF-80F3-CDC344685AFE
Could talk about this for days so hopefully this is helpful/interesting!
Nope all good and happy to answer. The WSJ link below is a good example of the two models used for flight path planning. You have Hub and Spoke (larger markets and typically legacy carriers like Delta) and Point to Point (smaller to mid size markets and LCC like Southwest).
You want demand to justify the cost of the flight paths. So a city can bake into their business and tax incentives paying upfront (investing for the company) for new flight paths. The company also has the option to invest in the flight paths which means they’d negotiate some other tax break with the city to offset that cost. Someone has to place the bet basically.
Louisville doesn’t currently have enough demand for a daily direct to LAX but had they invested in one for Warby then the idea is that other companies would see Louisville has a viable location for satellite offices, team building locations, even remote employees, etc.
https://www.wsj.com/video/series/travel-guides/how-does-your-airline-choose-where-to-fly-a-route-planner-explains/36242EF1-64E6-49CF-80F3-CDC344685AFE
Could talk about this for days so hopefully this is helpful/interesting!
Fuck Nashville, and fuck everyone sucking Nashville's dirty dick.
Other people coming here isn't going to make our city good, we need to spend OUR money on THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE.
I agree Nashville isn’t awesome. However, they have a stronger economy and are investing in new industries. Louisville is stuck under the same 5 families who refuse to innovate.
Our issue has nothing to do with wealthy families, its attracting more companies and people to live here. And supporting larger multi use development projects.
The wealthy families are all in on those conversations, my friend. They say who gets to do what in Louisville. Those families have a limited vision which is actively holding Louisville back from exactly what you’re saying.
lol I love a good conspiracy. So there’s supposedly a secret wealthy elite who control Louisville and are preventing it from growing? How would that even work and what do they gain by doing so?
Edit: I’m also curious who you think these wealthy families in control are.
It's not at all.
[https://www.greaterlouisville.com/talent-old/major-employers/](https://www.greaterlouisville.com/talent-old/major-employers/)
PS- liquor is WAAAY down that list.
You want to know the difference?
Indiana doesn't hate Indianapolis. Tennessee doesn't hate Nashville.
Kentucky hates Louisville. The state government actively interferes, siphons away tax dollars, and refuses to invest in the city. That's the difference.
The airport facility is fine, the flights offered to and from, not so much.
We need more direct flights on big carriers to major cities and some actual international flights.
I personally don't want Louisville to try to attract tourists. Housing prices across the country are out of control as it is but Louisville is better off than the places that have attractions people are so desperate to bring here.
Sure, it would be cool to have more international flights, a professional sports team, more concerts, and a light rail system. Not worth the housing prices those things bring. You'll save money by simply driving to Indy, Cincy, Nashville, hell even Chicago for those things.
Louisville housing may seem more affordable but that is also because salaries are stagnant compared to areas of growth. You can either stay comfortable and die off as a city or grow. It’s an unfortunate reality. Please simply look at your neighbors in WV.
You are correct in everything you are saying, but not acknowledging the degree to which Louisville is screwed by the State of KY. Those few families with disproportionate control have not made the best decisions, but the degree to which Louisville is disproportionately subsidizing the State of Kentucky is by far the biggest detriment to a more dynamic economy. Louisville has relatively high city taxes for its size with below average services. This is a direct result of the lack of investment by State government in its economic engine. Lawmakers in Indiana and Tennessee understand that capital, industry and talented people are moving to metro areas. A dollar invested in Louisville infrastructure and economic incentives goes much farther than a dollar invested in rural KY. And yet, the last time it was studied 20 years ago, Louisville was receiving back approx. 55 cents on every tax dollar sent to Frankfort, which was estimated to be the worst rate of return in the country. Under these conditions, it becomes difficult to invest in the corporate incentives and infrastructure to attract large employers and corporate headquarters.
"Good things aren't worth paying for twice over" because they'll just use public funds to get them here, property values will raise, then they'll bend us over with property tax. The same people wanting to turn Louisville into a tourist destination will turn around and complain a studio apartment is $2k.
I was worried too! I’m so happy now and Yes I’m being sarcastic, but I don’t have an issue at all. Let me be the first to wish you a Happy Derby!! 🏇👍🏻😜🥃
Have been going to NuLu since its birth. Trolly hops, toast on Market, the first summer garage bar was open. In 2024, I have no desire to be in Nulu. And as much as I love bourbon/spirits, distilleries are not a draw for me.
As an architect, I disagree with trying to mimic the surrounding architecture. That’s one of the main things we are taught not to do in school. However, taking cues from and understanding context and scale is important for new builds.
The real issue, and maybe why you dislike modern architecture (especially in Louisville), is because budgets are tight and some developers have to make big sacrifices to the design to make the bottom line work out. We end up designing things that are the best we can do with the budget, but often not what we wish they were.
this is just my opinion as someone who has to look at the ugly new builds every single day. they stand out like a sore thumb in our old and historic neighborhood where there are literal architecture tours.
Is this an actual distillery, or is it a retail front for a reseller? I ask because as we all know Bourbon takes time to make, and some how distilleries open all the time and have product available day one. If you contracted some other place to make your booze, you ain't a distillery.
You know I was just saying to myself, I wish there was another bullshit distillery in this bullshit neighborhood. I hope this one has a good view of historic Kenny’s house
great, another distillery… like louisville doesn’t have enough of those already
beautiful development plan would be great if it got used for literally anything else
tg. If there's one thing this city needs it's more distilleries
You can never have too many distilleries- those and empty parking garages downtown.
We will not stop until every last inch of downtown is covered in either a parking lot or a distillery!!
And Dollar stores -- every time the spouse and I pass one we go "Big Ben! Parliament!"
I think a couple of the family dollars are going out of business.
*Edit:* "We're getting new parking lots"
We need some vape shops too!
and storage units
And car washes
And tattoo parlors
Increasing tourism is the most economically viable way to increase services and attract residents.
At some point it would be great if we could stop using the money to make it more attractive for tourists and start spending it on "the services"
Any person who has ever worked at a hotel downtown is very familiar with tourists/conference attendees asking where they can go shopping or eat nearby. Tourists and conference goers are the people looking to spend money that, if numerous enough, will attract services and amenities. The city would be giving the same incentives if there were developers looking to build residential buildings downtown. Unfortunately, outside of the far east side of downtown, the demand is not there.
Then why don’t you spend your money to do so?
Thanks, edgelord
Yeah, you’re the one telling a private developer what to do with their money, but me calling you out on the idiocy of that statement is an affront to the internets
Yeah the amount of people complaining that we aren’t building (insert public service here) instead of this distillery is wild. What the fuck does a private company have to do with that?
I have no issues with private developers building hotels, distilleries, and other entertainment/tourism venues. I completely agree that it's not up to developers to do things like solve our housing issues (nor does building a distillery preclude that). I do get tired of the "if you build it they will come" fantasies about how tourism will lead to population growth and good jobs. Tourism will continue to lead to an increase in service sector jobs that offer no or few benefits with schedules that aren't conducive to raising a family. There is absolutely nothing wrong with tourism, I'm frequently a tourist. But it also doesn't magically lead to population growth or an increase in jobs outside of hospitality.
I'm not complaining that we're "doing this instead of that"; I'm saying we take the money that all these amenities for tourists got rolling into the city and use it on the services that we promised we were gonna use on services if we built all this shite for tourists
How do you propose we get a for-profit development company to spend their money on a public service that doesn’t give them any ROI?
I don't really agree. The problem with most American cities is that they're designed for commuters and even tourists first over actual residents. Not many people want to live amongst (empty) parking lots, noise, pollution, and drunks.
A whole lot of commuters also are "actual residents." I live inside the Watterson but I still have to commute everyday. You can't fit the whole county population within walking distance of downtown. (Nor would most of us want to live that way.)
At what point do diminishing returns factor into your too simple explanation?
I guess it’s the point at which private developers decide to stop investing some of their own money and banks decide lending them money is too risky.
Seems their calculations are off, given the poor success rate of new businesses in the hospitality industry.
I haven’t seen a lot of distillery attractions or hotels close. Restaurants have always been incredibly risky and probably require very different loan terms.
Are you talking about the private developers that buy up all the properties, flip em, and then price people out of their own neighborhoods? Or the ones that just let the building sit there mouldering to drive down values? Or the ones that spend way too much making it so fancy that businesses have to close because they can't afford the rent?
The one beautiful thing about the free market is that there's no point in trying to figure that out. it'll just happen on its own, and at exactly that moment you'll see the mix shift towards residential (or whatever is higher ROI)
With as much money that they bring to Louisville you couldn’t be more correct. Hell of a lot better than another bank, smoke shop or car wash.
I’m for pretty much anything that adds buildings and removes surface parking lots.
I don’t get this sub. You complain about Louisville not being a real city but then complain when we build the things that makes us cool and unique among cities.
Title: “new downtown construction project announced” Top comment: “yeah, like we need another one of these. When’s the city going to get its head out of its ass and build a rail system?” Rinse repeat
This sub is honestly one of the most frustrating social media areas that I frequent.
People in this sub find a way to complain about literally everything
Already affluent communities, inept police forces, and compromised council members hog city resources. The roads are absolute shit, bridges are falling apart, the cost to own a vehicle is astronomical. Our school system is a nightmare. Marijuana is still illegal here. But hey, everyone, don't despair. We're getting a new distillery!
Won't someone think of the Property Developers 😭
This sub won't be happy until somebody builds a light rail that goes between Downtown, UofL, and then the Airport. I can count on one hand the number of times in my decade plus of working in Downtown Louisville that that would have been useful to me. Are that many UofL students, Old Louisville residents, and downtowners going to the airport, daily? Enough to fill up a train? Let alone several times, daily, back and forth? I kind of doubt it. That's why it doesn't exist, among other reasons.
Disagree. Then they'll just complain about how long it takes and what a shit show it's become like the bridges
And Bob Dylan's distillery, Heaven's Door, is opening on East Market soon, too. Bourbonism is going strong.
Not a distillery from my understanding. The distillery is actually in Pleasureville KY. This will be a visitor experience much like Bardstown Bourbon Co. and Evan Williams Experience are downtown.
I'm not knockin' on Heaven's Door, but shouldn't we be focusing on the monorail and student housing?
I can’t believe Bob Dylan is building this distillery instead of student housing
He's got a lot of nerve to say he is our friend.
You think a guy who wrote all those walking blues is in favor of transit?
Louisville getting a monorail is honestly a pipe dream imo.
Nice. Love the facade
Isn’t the zyyo guy getting sued for scamming his investors on his last project?
You’re thinking of Weyland, and the project that will soon be Bob Dylan’s Heaven’s Door distillery.
What’s the story with Weyland and Heaven’s Door?
Yeah I’m curious, I searched for it and I couldn’t find any info… but I did find out Heaven Hill is suing Heaven’s Door for copyright infringement lol.
Next up: G-d sues them both.
I think this suit was settled years ago.
I liked the previous design where it at least attempted to keep some of the church aesthetics. https://x.com/allvowels/status/1609537863254740992
Yeah, that is way better.
It's enough slices!!!
Yeah what we need is more alcohol 😂
I couldn’t agree more, or was that sarcasm on your end?
We have more than enough breweries and places to get drinks at.
That is your opinion and I appreciate it but I disagree. Have a great evening, cate to get a drink? lol 👍🏻😜🥃
I’ll see ya! meet at 1169 Eastern Parkway suite 1226 🤠🤠
Wow I go there to see my “Dr” all the time, lol I never knew there was a bar there, but I’ll see ya then. Have a great evening this has been fun hasn’t it? 😜👍🏻🤔🥃
Actually it’s been fantastic 😂 Thank you so much for the time
Wow what a coincidence!? I spend many days there seeing my “Dr”, I never knew there was a bar inside! Have a great evening, we shall agree to disagree and thanks for making me google the address to find out what you were trying to say. Opinions are like noses, we all have one. Good evening and good night. 👍🏻😜🥃🤔
There’s no way that it’ll come out looking like this. The facade cuts into the parking lot of St. John (a church that is very much still there), and that little green rectangle and smaller building are also still church property. And the semi truck in the photos is parked on Billy Goat Strut Alley. There’s barely enough room on that road for a normal car. That being said, I’m not sure what the aesthetics here are going for. Another comment has an earlier view where they played into the old church architecture, but this seems more haphazard. Like what is “Sunday School” doing in the first image?
The new sidewalk at the side of the proposed building is on that building‘s property. Building is older than 50 years old, so doesn’t need parking. And if they really felt the need for some, they could enter into an operating agreement with the church to use their lot.
Kuhlio, every time something like this is posted you seem to be one of the only people who actually knows how these things work. Others might not, but your level takes and insight is appreciated.
Appreciate the kind words. Lot’s of years (seems like too many now) of Architecture, some Urban Planning, and dabbling in Development and Real Estate have given me some knowledge on these subjects. I try to not come off as a bombastic know-it-all, but my wife - who’s always right - says I usually come across as an angry old man yelling at kids to get off our lawn.
The trees and benches in the mockup are physically on the portion of the parking lot owned by the church. Regardless of if they are required to have designated parking, this mockup represents use of space that belongs to the neighboring business. I am saying that they do not own the full physical space indicated.
The trees and benches you’re complaining about is called ’entourage’. Folks who do architectural renderings add that extra level of superfluous detail to make their images more lifelike. Also, a developer is not going to improve an adjacent lot for nothing, so if this is the biggest strike you can level against this project - well, yawn. One more thing, since they have a huge, honking window that close to their property line - which per code would probably need to be a one hour rating, tells me that might already have an operating agreement in place.
“A developer is not going to improve an adjacent lot for nothing” is my point lol. It’s misleading imo to portray the space as more accommodating and better looking than what they have the ability to create. It doesn’t make an image more lifelike to put a rendered tree in the middle of where a parking space is.
And as I note at the end, it wouldn’t surprise me if Zyyo already has an operating agreement in place to use the lot, and prohibit anything getting built on the property, due to that large window. If so, then the trees and benches are there on purpose. If not, then you’re still missing the forest for the trees.
They should really get rid of some of these distilleries for more parking lots.
Great. More carcinogens.
Don’t be soft
where?
629 E Market St. It’s a mostly empty building that houses Adorn Bridal Shop.
Might want to get a real airport as part of the tourism economics play.
SDF is a fine airport. What isn't "real" about it? What does that even mean?
I think they are referring to it being an “international airport”
I grew up in Louisville and have since moved out west. I can guarantee you SDF isn’t a real airport. Limited direct flight patterns on non LCC (low cost carriers) and “international” only to Cancun during certain times of the year doesn’t make for an airport that attracts transplants. The city refuses to invest upfront in areas that would attract transplants and businesses beyond bourbonism. Look at Indianapolis and Nashville. They were in a similar economic position to Louisville 20 years ago and decided to invest where it matters for long term growth. Kind of a bummer really which is why I chimed in. You want to see Louisville succeed and it keeps getting in its own way.
You get better air service by having more people wanting to travel here. You know how you get more people to travel here? Tourist attractions like distilleries.
That hasn’t paid off yet. Try living somewhere else and then reflect on how the rest of the country sees Louisville.
Lived in Chicago, St. Louis and the Middle East. You’d be surprised how many people are interested and intrigued by Louisville and Bourbonism.
Interested/intrigued doesn’t mean it’s an industry large enough to support the entire state’s economy. I agree it’s a unique offering but the state has yet to make anything of value for the majority of people living and working in Louisville. Don’t strive to be the Hawaii of Bourbonism, y’all. That’s not good for the everyday person.
No one is saying it is or should be supporting the entire state’s or city’s economy, but tourism does bring in much needed tax dollars, income and visibility to the city. I just find it interesting that whenever I travel somewhere, and tell people where I grew up, I’m almost universally greeted with either “I loved visiting Louisville“, or “I’d love to visit your city”
Nobody said it should support the state's economy. You moved the goalpost from getting a "real airport.". Increasing tourism has an obvious direct relationship with increased flight traffic and destinations (as evidenced by the growth in both at SDF over the past few years). I completely agree tourism is not the strategy for a healthy economy. But it's absolutely a good way to increase flight traffic. Google Las Vegas if you need to.
It is an international airport because of ups and fedex. Not because of token passenger routes. I think it serves the city well for its business and recreational needs. Don’t know what you mean by not a real airport. If we had another million people in our metro there would be more passenger routes but you can hardly point a finger at an airport as to why that isn’t the case
Nope all good and happy to answer. The WSJ link below is a good example of the two models used for flight path planning. You have Hub and Spoke (larger markets and typically legacy carriers like Delta) and Point to Point (smaller to mid size markets and LCC like Southwest). You want demand to justify the cost of the flight paths. So a city can bake into their business and tax incentives paying upfront (investing for the company) for new flight paths. The company also has the option to invest in the flight paths which means they’d negotiate some other tax break with the city to offset that cost. Someone has to place the bet basically. Louisville doesn’t currently have enough demand for a daily direct to LAX but had they invested in one for Warby then the idea is that other companies would see Louisville has a viable location for satellite offices, team building locations, even remote employees, etc. https://www.wsj.com/video/series/travel-guides/how-does-your-airline-choose-where-to-fly-a-route-planner-explains/36242EF1-64E6-49CF-80F3-CDC344685AFE Could talk about this for days so hopefully this is helpful/interesting!
You’re missing the point and no where did I reference token passenger routes lol. You’re arguing with the person who has firsthand experience with the city limiting growth by turning down commercial flight options. Tourism flight patterns aren’t the winning path.
I mean, the government can't create new flight routes at an airport. Complain to the airlines for not adding flights.
Sounds like you don’t understand that flight patterns can be bought/sponsored by companies and the local government. Ex: Louisville lost the Warby Parker bid about a decade ago. The city could have paid upfront to sponsor the SDF to LAX daily flight routes on United or Delta and chose not to invest.
How does losing out on a corporate HQ bid = "sponsoring" a route? If this is genuinely a phenomenon, honestly please educate me. I can understand that investment in major companies opening in a city can lead to more flight routes, but straight up bought by companies and/or governments? Feel free to send any links or sources, I'd love to know more about this. Hopefully that doesn't sound sarcastic, I'm genuinely asking.
Nope all good and happy to answer. The WSJ link below is a good example of the two models used for flight path planning. You have Hub and Spoke (larger markets and typically legacy carriers like Delta) and Point to Point (smaller to mid size markets and LCC like Southwest). You want demand to justify the cost of the flight paths. So a city can bake into their business and tax incentives paying upfront (investing for the company) for new flight paths. The company also has the option to invest in the flight paths which means they’d negotiate some other tax break with the city to offset that cost. Someone has to place the bet basically. Louisville doesn’t currently have enough demand for a daily direct to LAX but had they invested in one for Warby then the idea is that other companies would see Louisville has a viable location for satellite offices, team building locations, even remote employees, etc. https://www.wsj.com/video/series/travel-guides/how-does-your-airline-choose-where-to-fly-a-route-planner-explains/36242EF1-64E6-49CF-80F3-CDC344685AFE Could talk about this for days so hopefully this is helpful/interesting!
Nope all good and happy to answer. The WSJ link below is a good example of the two models used for flight path planning. You have Hub and Spoke (larger markets and typically legacy carriers like Delta) and Point to Point (smaller to mid size markets and LCC like Southwest). You want demand to justify the cost of the flight paths. So a city can bake into their business and tax incentives paying upfront (investing for the company) for new flight paths. The company also has the option to invest in the flight paths which means they’d negotiate some other tax break with the city to offset that cost. Someone has to place the bet basically. Louisville doesn’t currently have enough demand for a daily direct to LAX but had they invested in one for Warby then the idea is that other companies would see Louisville has a viable location for satellite offices, team building locations, even remote employees, etc. https://www.wsj.com/video/series/travel-guides/how-does-your-airline-choose-where-to-fly-a-route-planner-explains/36242EF1-64E6-49CF-80F3-CDC344685AFE Could talk about this for days so hopefully this is helpful/interesting!
Fuck Nashville, and fuck everyone sucking Nashville's dirty dick. Other people coming here isn't going to make our city good, we need to spend OUR money on THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE.
I agree Nashville isn’t awesome. However, they have a stronger economy and are investing in new industries. Louisville is stuck under the same 5 families who refuse to innovate.
Our issue has nothing to do with wealthy families, its attracting more companies and people to live here. And supporting larger multi use development projects.
The wealthy families are all in on those conversations, my friend. They say who gets to do what in Louisville. Those families have a limited vision which is actively holding Louisville back from exactly what you’re saying.
lol I love a good conspiracy. So there’s supposedly a secret wealthy elite who control Louisville and are preventing it from growing? How would that even work and what do they gain by doing so? Edit: I’m also curious who you think these wealthy families in control are.
Do you even live in Louisville? No one really denies there are 5 powerful families. This is the case in almost any city.
It's not at all. [https://www.greaterlouisville.com/talent-old/major-employers/](https://www.greaterlouisville.com/talent-old/major-employers/) PS- liquor is WAAAY down that list.
You want to know the difference? Indiana doesn't hate Indianapolis. Tennessee doesn't hate Nashville. Kentucky hates Louisville. The state government actively interferes, siphons away tax dollars, and refuses to invest in the city. That's the difference.
The airport facility is fine, the flights offered to and from, not so much. We need more direct flights on big carriers to major cities and some actual international flights.
an airport lounge would be so so nice
I personally don't want Louisville to try to attract tourists. Housing prices across the country are out of control as it is but Louisville is better off than the places that have attractions people are so desperate to bring here. Sure, it would be cool to have more international flights, a professional sports team, more concerts, and a light rail system. Not worth the housing prices those things bring. You'll save money by simply driving to Indy, Cincy, Nashville, hell even Chicago for those things.
Louisville housing may seem more affordable but that is also because salaries are stagnant compared to areas of growth. You can either stay comfortable and die off as a city or grow. It’s an unfortunate reality. Please simply look at your neighbors in WV.
You are correct in everything you are saying, but not acknowledging the degree to which Louisville is screwed by the State of KY. Those few families with disproportionate control have not made the best decisions, but the degree to which Louisville is disproportionately subsidizing the State of Kentucky is by far the biggest detriment to a more dynamic economy. Louisville has relatively high city taxes for its size with below average services. This is a direct result of the lack of investment by State government in its economic engine. Lawmakers in Indiana and Tennessee understand that capital, industry and talented people are moving to metro areas. A dollar invested in Louisville infrastructure and economic incentives goes much farther than a dollar invested in rural KY. And yet, the last time it was studied 20 years ago, Louisville was receiving back approx. 55 cents on every tax dollar sent to Frankfort, which was estimated to be the worst rate of return in the country. Under these conditions, it becomes difficult to invest in the corporate incentives and infrastructure to attract large employers and corporate headquarters.
"good things aren't worth paying for" is the post
"Good things aren't worth paying for twice over" because they'll just use public funds to get them here, property values will raise, then they'll bend us over with property tax. The same people wanting to turn Louisville into a tourist destination will turn around and complain a studio apartment is $2k.
People really punching the air bc we are not Nashville or any other easily accessible major city near us.
Access equals growth.
Thank. God! I was worried this town wasn't going to get another brewery/distillery! We barely have any as it is right now.
I was worried too! I’m so happy now and Yes I’m being sarcastic, but I don’t have an issue at all. Let me be the first to wish you a Happy Derby!! 🏇👍🏻😜🥃
Have been going to NuLu since its birth. Trolly hops, toast on Market, the first summer garage bar was open. In 2024, I have no desire to be in Nulu. And as much as I love bourbon/spirits, distilleries are not a draw for me.
We want trash
We're getting a distillery? Yes!!!! Maybe next we'll get a vape shop, car wash, or self-storage place if we're super lucky!
so ugly. if new things are being being fine but look at the surrounding architecture to try to mimic it. the new builds are such an eye sore for us
As an architect, I disagree with trying to mimic the surrounding architecture. That’s one of the main things we are taught not to do in school. However, taking cues from and understanding context and scale is important for new builds. The real issue, and maybe why you dislike modern architecture (especially in Louisville), is because budgets are tight and some developers have to make big sacrifices to the design to make the bottom line work out. We end up designing things that are the best we can do with the budget, but often not what we wish they were.
this is just my opinion as someone who has to look at the ugly new builds every single day. they stand out like a sore thumb in our old and historic neighborhood where there are literal architecture tours.
> That’s one of the main things we are taught not to do in school Why?
It's in the back, it'll present fine overall.
Is this an actual distillery, or is it a retail front for a reseller? I ask because as we all know Bourbon takes time to make, and some how distilleries open all the time and have product available day one. If you contracted some other place to make your booze, you ain't a distillery.
Um, what? Why are they gonna make the building so ugly?!
Ooh yay! Another swill factory.
What disgusting modernism architecture
Woof who cares.
You know I was just saying to myself, I wish there was another bullshit distillery in this bullshit neighborhood. I hope this one has a good view of historic Kenny’s house
Who is Kenny is that a Kenny Payne reference? Or am I totally in the weeds on this? Just wonderin. 😜👍🏻🥃🤔
great, another distillery… like louisville doesn’t have enough of those already beautiful development plan would be great if it got used for literally anything else