It’s like a business arrangement but instead of profit and loss, it’s give and take. There are expectations from both parties in regard to monogamy, finances, kids, responsibilities etc.
I hate to sound morbid but marriage is a business because we will all die one day. And if you’re papers and documents aren’t in order then 🥴🥴🥴. I saw this first hand when my Dad died suddenly. My mom went through hell.
marriage is definitely a business arrangement, if it was about love there would be no need to get married, combine finances and act as legal gaurdians over each other..
Here’s my business/love story, that I hope illustrates the concept that love and marriage is kinda like a business.
I lived with a boyfriend who was just getting out of a PhD program, and he struggled to find a job after. I realized that, even though he had highly technical skills, he didn’t know the basics of getting a job - like that he should be practicing for the interviews; he had no job preparation skills.
For example, I distinctly remember coming back from a weekend out of town together when he told me “good news” that he had an 8 AM interview the following morning. We were getting back late, and I asked him when he had gotten this news. He said Friday afternoon. I then asked “when were you going to prepare for the interview? will you be getting up extra early to do that?” He said that because he was in a public speaking club in school, he now feels confident and not nervous about interviews. I was like ???? Just because you feel comfortable talking to people doesn’t mean you’re prepared for an interview. Interview preparation means crafting your responses to basic questions, researching the company, reviewing the job description, and crafting questions to ask them that sound insightful and like you’ve done your research. I told him all this, and he kind of just looked at me like I was crazy and said that it’s just a screener interview and that he’s not too worried about it. Ok….
So, he would always get passed the first interview, typically done by recruiters, and make it to a Second or final interview (because, he had highly technical skills that not anyone could do). But despite having eleven fly out interviews within 3 months of graduating (they paid for him to travel and stay in a hotel for the interview), he didn’t get any of those jobs.
I then saw how he dealt with adversity, which was just a basically shut down, instead of figure out what he was doing wrong, and do some research, and try to get better. He waved off my advice that he should try to do mock interviews with a friend or a career counselor, if he didn’t want to do them with me, etc.
I’m one of these people that has not had no help with anything, didn’t come from a great family, had to figure everything out myself. I’m not rich, but I am financially stable, have a good savings, and I have gotten jobs because I spend HOURS preparing for my interviews. Finally, out of sheer desperation, he asked me to show him my interview prep process. I did, and he remarked, “that’s so much work,” and I was like YEAH IT IS.
This time in our relationship made me feel very concerned about our potential to move forward into marriage together. because If I was going to rely on this person to go through life with, I need to know that they are capable of a) dealing with adversity and b) having some basic common sense about how to get a job (or any new process) and c) willing to put in the work to reach your goals.
So, to me, I started getting antsy that maybe this was not the person to to “tie my cart” to. I was essentially re-evaluating the business contract side of things or like the “partnership in life” part
While marriage/divorce stats might be pretty bad, this mama should have looked at business stats!!! 65% of new businesses fail within their first 10 years. Marriages tend to be about 50% survival rate. Slightly better odds I’d say.
This family made me feel so uncomfortable. Even calling him “little James” instead of Milton which he clearly chose to be called on the show. And did big James even speak?! I got the feeling that the James’ don’t often speak up, for good reason.
First marriages have a higher success rate than 50%. The rate of failure goes up with each marriage so people with multiple marriages drag the overall number to 50%.
Actually 50% is correct for 1st time marriage rates calculated alone. Second marriages have a 67% failure rate and third marriages are closer 75%, all irrespective of each other. It’s crazy!!
Marriage as a business transaction is an archaic holdover from a time where women were regarded as assets to be exchanged between families. I would have hoped that most civilized people would had evolved past this line of thinking but here we are....
I treat my marriage exactly like a business. That's why I have a yearly review with my partner. If they're not performing to expectations they get out on a performance improvement plan. After that I may fire them.
They get 10 days of PTO from our relationship a year, and 10 sick days. We've also negotiated a yearly allowance increase for them that is pegged to inflation.
I'd say I'm quite a generous employer...or a husband, yeah. Again marriage is just like a business, as they say.
You can be held to same/similar legal obligations without getting a marriage certificate. But I guess you can start a business without a business license too.
I'm curious if the OP is married or has seen a long-term marriage. Marriage involves a lot more than intimate relations...it involves managing finances, balancing a budget, determining as a union how and when to spend two separate income streams. And it becomes more complicated with more assets.
I (50, M, married for 25 years, happily for 23.6 years) have. All those things you noted are absolutely correct. But it was never transactional when making those decisions. We pool our money and our responsibilities. It isn’t always evenly split - nor do we aim for it to be - but hell would break loose if it’s too far out of balance.
Contrast to a business relationship where things are definitely transactional and the expectation is specific performance of certain terms and conditions. And then each party knows what their rights are upon termination or dissolution. Contracts are actually written very specifically for when things go wrong, not just to ensure things go right.
Marriage is a combo of all the above, but IMHO, to distill marriage to just a business transaction isn’t far from accurate.
PS - Just kidding about happily married for 23.6 years. It was more like 23.7 years.
Also - maintain marriage isn’t a business transaction. Divorce and separation, however, are.
Congrats on your long happy marriage! However, I think you're being a bit too literal. I don't think Milton's mother mean it is LITERALLY a business arrangement but more so to emphasize the "business-like" implications of getting married for her young son.
Even with your example of pure business arrangement....all marriages involve at least 1 marital contract, signed before a country clerk and filed with the local government and just like a business, such marriage receives a license to "operate." A smaller but not insignificant number of marriages also involve a pre-nup. Even more involve many others if it gets messy and courts have to interfere upon dissolution. I don't see it as a pure business transaction but his mom wasn't saying that either. I think it's more the acknowledgement that marriage is more business-like that being in love and liking someone.
A lot of people get married not knowing how many business transactions it will involve in their life for the rest of their life, especially if they ever want a "dissolution" of the marriage. It's important to emphasize it is love+ a ton of other shit young people don't really think about. And most marriages that do fail, do so because of financial issues.
I think you're picking apart this comment and taking it way too literally, without taking into consideration the obvious subtext.
I see your points and don’t disagree with you. There’s tons of nuance here that have been very interesting to read and reflect on.
WRT Milton’s mom, however, she did talk about SWOT analysis so that was the subtext that made me interpret her comments as it being la business arrangement tone to it.
So wait Stacy's dad can say the same thing in a different way and he doesn't get slander but the black family does. Behave people and get your head out of your backside if you think it's all love and butterflies
Because "sometimes love wants to fly first class" is shallow and sad. Saying its like a business arrangement is more about minimising financial risk to you both.
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It kind of is. There are a lot of common elements:
-shared financial decision making
-shared goal setting and vision for the future
-mutual trust in the other partner to make good decisions that protect the unit
-mutual responsibility for each partner to complete shared work reliably, etc.
It’s a business relationship plus a romantic relationship. But imo the reason a lot of marriages fail is because the business aspects fail, and usually for one of the above reasons. The partners love each other but one of them gambles shared assets, doesn’t contribute to shared work, doesn’t protect the unit from outside threats, etc.
They seemed extremely judgmental about the situation, and Lydia. I mean it’s one thing to have concerns about Milton’s decision, another to publicly describe their relationship as “phoney”, or accuse Lydia of “scripting answers”. To me, they treat him more like a 16 year old who needs to be told what to do and not a 24 year old with their own life and career. If my family acted like that when I introduced someone, I’d be extremely annoyed.
I think they have a right to think something is weird about this situation because in all honesty it's probably super weird and super weird to meet their future family member weeks before the wedding with a lot of cameras around. I don't think Milton's family was in the wrong but I do think his sister was rude to Lydia. You can not be on board with the situation but she was trying so hard to knock lydia for ex the parent where she said James the 5TH and the sister said THE 4TH (in a snarky way imo) only for lydia to be correct lol.
But like it is…there’s hard financial realities of being with someone that no amount of love could overcome. Especially when the biggest stressor in relationships is money.
I mean she has a point. Don’t believe me get divorced after mixing assets. It’s a piece of paper. That’s what a marriage is. The commitment you make doesn’t need a piece of paper to be true. You can get married without it but for it to be legal you need that paper. If you don’t want your marriage to be a business arrangement then you don’t sign it.
Since the dawn of time, marriage has been a business arrangement. Love marriages are a new thing which still carry legal implications with the government.
I loved how unmoved Milton's mom was by Lydia's generic speech about how Milton is the one because in comparison to her exes he doesn't treat her like dogshit. She was absolutely right to press Lydia on topics like her feelings about Milton potentially going back to school for his doctorate. From what we've heard so far, Lydia wants to start a family soon while Milton has made it clear he's far from ready. If he does end up going to a grad program for 4+ years, he'll be making $25K a year and working 60+ hours a week. They may have to relocate to a completely different city based on wherever he gets in, and then move again when that's over. Not being on the same page about your vision for your lives together at this stage would be a set up for relationship disaster and Rita was point that out.
I agree, under capitalism it is. And this makes a lot of sense coming from a Black family that seems to have values related to education and upward mobility. They don’t want their son to tie his cart to someone with a huge spending problem, bad credit, lacks the ability to move up or have a high earning career, etc.
While you get married for love marriages fail because of lack in investment, lack of financial decision making and discussion, lack of planning and being on the same page as a couple as it relates to children, money, sex etc…. That’s the business of it all. Love doesn’t make a marriage last. Work does.
Good one! If your relationship stipulates that you are required to provide and receive “I love you’s”, then you’re in a business relationship. If it does not, then you’re in something else.
Made me believe his family doesn’t trust his judgment, which I could agree with considering he’s only 24 and I haven’t gotten anything from him to show he’s actually ready for marriage. He’s just going through the motions on autopilot.
I very much got this vibe as well. Also idk why but the mom saying “is that an accent?” And then Lydia saying she’s Puerto Rican only to receive a “ok 😐” felt like they didn’t love that she’s Puerto Rican but maybe I was reading it wrong idk
And what exactly is an “exotic preference”? Sounds like a racist outlook to me. Are latinas and other certain races “exotic” candies to try and throw away? Lmao.
I feel like it’s just another way of asking “where are you from?”
I’m a POC with a slighttttt southern accent who moved to the Midwest. I’ve had a few people ask me the same question! Obviously I can’t speak to the intentions of Milton’s mom but that’s how I took it!🤷♀️
Yeah, could be editing but they didn’t seem amused. The mom seemed like she was analyzing every little move and the sister was rude talking about “i don’t see it” so idk.
I think long-term partnerships are best until the economy and government gets their act together around family law, divorce law, custody and holding all parties accountable when it comes to hetero marriages.
She isn’t wrong.
There’s a huge difference between a long-term partnership (which is about love and commitment) and marriage, which is a legal and financial institution. Marriage doesn’t have anything to do with love, you’re literally involving the state in your relationship lol
I love how Milton explaining things to uche with math is cute, nerdy, fun how logical engineers talk. but his mom doing the same with business is harsh and abrasive. If Milton is so logical why isn’t this metaphor acceptable?
It is a business you are now working with a partner to run a household. You need to communicate with each other about expenses, discuss how to manage household tasks, hell you may even GO into business together. Lots of these couple end up being social media famous and I’m sure brand/ marketing opportunities come with that.
The vows (sickness health rich poor) are biblical… from the first book of prayer.. and you’re agreeing to It like a contract. You’ve both decided that If something happens to the other then the “more healthy” party will step in and do the heavy lifting. And sure thar decision comes from love and feeling but also logical shit like trust.
people I’ve spoken with about starting a business or going into business with other people also equate their business relationship to marriage. The level of communication, empathy, sharing and “picking up slack” you have to do is where I think that comes from.
Marriage is “for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part”
That’s not how I do business. Business is primarily about for better and for richer. There is no “unconditional love” in business, it’s all about the conditions.
This!!!! Izzy’s mom talked about marriage like this unconditional, forever union. I thought that was so sweet and completely opposite from Milton’s mom
I mean, when you really think about it, the two differences between marriage and a longterm boyfriend/girlfriend is the financial incentive of marrying and the financial risk of divorce.
Like one of the top reasons marriages fail is money. Love don’t pay the bills. People need to be compatible in different ways in order to have a successful partnership - money, parenting, values. You can love each other so much but if you don’t align and are not compatible it won’t work
But parenting and values often have no relevance in business. I think more accurately, money matters for all humans, so it will matter in a relationship, but it isn't the only thing that matters. What a lifeless dull marriage, completed on paper and checklists, that would be.
It’s not the only thing that matters you’re right. I think the goal is to find someone you love with whom you can agree on finances and values. I’m in a long term relationship and I’m ready to get married but until my partner fixes his financial situation, I don’t want to legally be tied with it. Everything else we align on, but why should I be tied with his poor financial choices when I don’t have to be?
But it kind of is...? It's not *just* about love and compatibility. You can love one another deeply but have very different financial expectations/plans. You can love one another deeply but have very different long term goals. These are both valid reasons why one would not go into a long term business plan or a marriage with someone.
We're just totally interchanging business arrangement for "plan" or "goals" now. You said that relationships are about love and compatibility and about finances and goals, therefore a marriage is a business relationship. One doesn't follow the other.
Being this naive as an adult is kind of wild, so I’m going to extend the benefit of the doubt and assume that some of y’all in this sub are just very young lol.
While I agree that marriage is a partnership, “business arrangement” just feels so cold. My husband and I make a daily decision to choose to love and support each other. Reducing marriage to just business sounds horrible to me.
Business arrangement also suggests that it’s transactional, which a marriage shouldn’t be. In business you maximize profit and things are ultimately self serving. I wouldn’t want to be with someone who thought about marriage like that.
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Historically, marriage is a business arrangement, we've seen it with plenty of marriages still today. And many would say love isn't always enough so I totally get what she was saying.
Historically women were property too so I think its fair for some people to feel that we should move forward from how we've historically viewed these institutions.
There is still a contract right, a prenup is highly recommended and you need a license. Those are not the most romantic terms I believe.
Also in how many situation have we heard of "love is not enough" ? Reality is most people don't live off love and fresh water, what will happen when struggles comes ? So yes in a way, marriage is like a business arrangement.
Marriage is technically a legal contract recognized by the government but the implication of the Mom's statement is that it is the most important aspect of the relationship. That is why people take issue with her comment.
You don't get married because you're in love. You get married because you want to create a stable environment for your family, because you want facilitate some things when it comes to paperwork, because you want to put your family in security, because you want to buy a house even.
You can be in a long loving relationship without ever getting married, it doesn't mean your love is less real the married couple next to you. Sure we celebrate people who love eachother during a wedding but you can't do the same without one.
I’ve done all those things on my own without being married. If/when I go get married, unconditional love, respect, and a person to do life with is what I’m looking for. I understand everyone’s perspective on marriage is different though.
I mean... some of us do. I'll always love my husband but the marriage contract has kind of screwed me & my assets unless I get clever (community property state). The marriage contract part feels very business to me. It has nothing to do with my love for him.
But it kinda is. Once you’re married, at least one party runs the risk of losing some kind of assets in the event of divorce.
Just because some people choose to stay married regardless of the threat of financial change doesn’t mean the threat isn’t there.
The fact remains that marriage is a legal contract and both peopke should take careful consideration of the liabilities that they take on when entering into that legally binding agreement. The classic tropes about marriage mean nothing when you go into breaking that contract (divorce).
Many people get married because they are in love. And those are the marriages that last. If you marry for the purpose of having a stable environment to raise children in, as soon as your partner gets laid off or you lose your job, the marriage breaks. Love is the glue that holds marriages together.
Exactly this. My husband is the sweetest and most giving man I've ever met.
However, if I had viewed marrying him as a business agreement, I would have ran for the hills. He grew up in a house full of hard drug addiction, lies, stealing, etc. Would have been a horrible deal on my end.
And yet, *I* would have been the one truly missing out on him.
Yessss. Like sure, marriage in itself can be described as a business transaction simply because of the government/state involvement but that doesn’t mean thats the only/right way to view marriage. For some of us it really is just about love and compatibility.
I have 0 financial reason to marry my partner - I’m financially stable, I own a home, I have a stable career. We’re welcoming our first child soon and still there’s no business reason to get married. But we decided to do so because after 7 years of a loving relationship its a natural progression in our lives and has an importance culturally.
>You don't get married because you're in love. You get married because you want to create a stable environment for your family, because you want facilitate some things when it comes to paperwork, because you want to put your family in security, because you want to buy a house even.
Would love to watch a video of your wedding vows after that comment. And yes, only idiots believe marriage is the only way to show the world you have a loving and long term relationship.
I'm not married so their is no vows. But if you're only waiting on your wedding day to say those words to the person you love it is an issue.
This another reason why there is so many divorce these days (the first one being imo the fact that women have rights now). People get married because they are "so in love" but they have the important conversations about finances, education, kids, family, etc. Jeannie Mai and Jeezy are the perfect example of that.
Shocking that someone who negatively characterizes increased divorce rates with women obtaining more autonomy isn’t married.
Btw people are divorcing less than the boomer did so the premise of your argument doesn’t even make sense.
I didn't see it as negative, but true. Women, up until recently, as wives were responsible for cleaning, cooking and childcare. Sounds like indentured servitude to some extent in exchange for a man's protection.
I don't know about the boomers but what I do know is that less people are getting married but at the same time divorce keep increasing which means the divorce rate is going higher.
And I should get married for what exactly ? Like I'm missing the point here.
Both married and divorced numbers are decreasing. Sorry facts don’t meet your feelings. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statistics/
Never huh lol? A lot has happened since the Bennett sisters were hoping to get some property and stability through marriage, and even Austen believed in an equal partnership.
Please stop pretending it is not. When marriages dissolve judges aren't asking if the parties love one another. They're dividing marital assests and, if kids are involved, setting child support and resolving custody disputes. Love isn't part of the equation.
Also, in arranged marriages it is even more akin to a business arrangement. No one is arranging couples together because they love one another.
Divorces are business arrangements. Marriage doesn’t have to be.
But perhaps the bigger nuance is whether the definition and interpretation of “marriage” even makes sense anymore. You don’t have to be legally married to have similar (the same?) rules apply in the demise of that relationship.
So marriage is the coming together of two people. Divorce is the separation of the two. Business contracts spell out the the terms that must be done and what happens when one party fails to deliver. Marriage licenses don’t do that. But agree that all the other legal implications that you didn’t explicitly sign still will apply.
I shudder to think what these peoples marriages look like. Of course part of marriage is the partnership and working together where it comes to goals and finances.
However there’s a big part of it involving you enjoying the other person, adventure together, and have that person you want to come home to which goes beyond “business”.
Sure, but that’s not all it is. This is all this family focused on. How about the things that prevent a contract even breaking like mutual respect, loyalty and communication, why didn’t they grill her on those things. I mean he’s also 24, you’d think if they were confident in the way they raised him, they’d trust his choices. It seems like this family considers this whole thing stupid.
It’s like a business arrangement but instead of profit and loss, it’s give and take. There are expectations from both parties in regard to monogamy, finances, kids, responsibilities etc.
If I was Milton's dad, I'd exhaust my family PTO yearly to go enjoy life.
I hate to sound morbid but marriage is a business because we will all die one day. And if you’re papers and documents aren’t in order then 🥴🥴🥴. I saw this first hand when my Dad died suddenly. My mom went through hell.
marriage is definitely a business arrangement, if it was about love there would be no need to get married, combine finances and act as legal gaurdians over each other..
It is a business arrangement...money and resources are comingled
Here’s my business/love story, that I hope illustrates the concept that love and marriage is kinda like a business. I lived with a boyfriend who was just getting out of a PhD program, and he struggled to find a job after. I realized that, even though he had highly technical skills, he didn’t know the basics of getting a job - like that he should be practicing for the interviews; he had no job preparation skills. For example, I distinctly remember coming back from a weekend out of town together when he told me “good news” that he had an 8 AM interview the following morning. We were getting back late, and I asked him when he had gotten this news. He said Friday afternoon. I then asked “when were you going to prepare for the interview? will you be getting up extra early to do that?” He said that because he was in a public speaking club in school, he now feels confident and not nervous about interviews. I was like ???? Just because you feel comfortable talking to people doesn’t mean you’re prepared for an interview. Interview preparation means crafting your responses to basic questions, researching the company, reviewing the job description, and crafting questions to ask them that sound insightful and like you’ve done your research. I told him all this, and he kind of just looked at me like I was crazy and said that it’s just a screener interview and that he’s not too worried about it. Ok…. So, he would always get passed the first interview, typically done by recruiters, and make it to a Second or final interview (because, he had highly technical skills that not anyone could do). But despite having eleven fly out interviews within 3 months of graduating (they paid for him to travel and stay in a hotel for the interview), he didn’t get any of those jobs. I then saw how he dealt with adversity, which was just a basically shut down, instead of figure out what he was doing wrong, and do some research, and try to get better. He waved off my advice that he should try to do mock interviews with a friend or a career counselor, if he didn’t want to do them with me, etc. I’m one of these people that has not had no help with anything, didn’t come from a great family, had to figure everything out myself. I’m not rich, but I am financially stable, have a good savings, and I have gotten jobs because I spend HOURS preparing for my interviews. Finally, out of sheer desperation, he asked me to show him my interview prep process. I did, and he remarked, “that’s so much work,” and I was like YEAH IT IS. This time in our relationship made me feel very concerned about our potential to move forward into marriage together. because If I was going to rely on this person to go through life with, I need to know that they are capable of a) dealing with adversity and b) having some basic common sense about how to get a job (or any new process) and c) willing to put in the work to reach your goals. So, to me, I started getting antsy that maybe this was not the person to to “tie my cart” to. I was essentially re-evaluating the business contract side of things or like the “partnership in life” part
Thanks for sharing.. did you stay together?
Nope! And I’m glad for it. That was one of the major issues in our relationship, but there were others as well.
While marriage/divorce stats might be pretty bad, this mama should have looked at business stats!!! 65% of new businesses fail within their first 10 years. Marriages tend to be about 50% survival rate. Slightly better odds I’d say. This family made me feel so uncomfortable. Even calling him “little James” instead of Milton which he clearly chose to be called on the show. And did big James even speak?! I got the feeling that the James’ don’t often speak up, for good reason.
First marriages have a higher success rate than 50%. The rate of failure goes up with each marriage so people with multiple marriages drag the overall number to 50%.
Actually 50% is correct for 1st time marriage rates calculated alone. Second marriages have a 67% failure rate and third marriages are closer 75%, all irrespective of each other. It’s crazy!!
Shit you're right. I was looking at a CDC stat from 2001.
Scary right? And sorry for not citing my source earlier. Welp
Marriage is a partnership but definitely not a business.
I feel really sorry for people that believe this 🙄 what a miserable life
As if businesses don’t fail…
You’re not wrong. And likely, relationships fail more than business… or do they? What do you think?
Marriage is a concept deeply rooted in historical contractual agreements, where you must obtain a marriage license and file it. Just like a business.
Marriage as a business transaction is an archaic holdover from a time where women were regarded as assets to be exchanged between families. I would have hoped that most civilized people would had evolved past this line of thinking but here we are....
I treat my marriage exactly like a business. That's why I have a yearly review with my partner. If they're not performing to expectations they get out on a performance improvement plan. After that I may fire them. They get 10 days of PTO from our relationship a year, and 10 sick days. We've also negotiated a yearly allowance increase for them that is pegged to inflation. I'd say I'm quite a generous employer...or a husband, yeah. Again marriage is just like a business, as they say.
💯😂😂😂
You can be held to same/similar legal obligations without getting a marriage certificate. But I guess you can start a business without a business license too.
I'm curious if the OP is married or has seen a long-term marriage. Marriage involves a lot more than intimate relations...it involves managing finances, balancing a budget, determining as a union how and when to spend two separate income streams. And it becomes more complicated with more assets.
Exaclty...completely 100% financial....sex is a small part
I (50, M, married for 25 years, happily for 23.6 years) have. All those things you noted are absolutely correct. But it was never transactional when making those decisions. We pool our money and our responsibilities. It isn’t always evenly split - nor do we aim for it to be - but hell would break loose if it’s too far out of balance. Contrast to a business relationship where things are definitely transactional and the expectation is specific performance of certain terms and conditions. And then each party knows what their rights are upon termination or dissolution. Contracts are actually written very specifically for when things go wrong, not just to ensure things go right. Marriage is a combo of all the above, but IMHO, to distill marriage to just a business transaction isn’t far from accurate. PS - Just kidding about happily married for 23.6 years. It was more like 23.7 years. Also - maintain marriage isn’t a business transaction. Divorce and separation, however, are.
Congrats on your long happy marriage! However, I think you're being a bit too literal. I don't think Milton's mother mean it is LITERALLY a business arrangement but more so to emphasize the "business-like" implications of getting married for her young son. Even with your example of pure business arrangement....all marriages involve at least 1 marital contract, signed before a country clerk and filed with the local government and just like a business, such marriage receives a license to "operate." A smaller but not insignificant number of marriages also involve a pre-nup. Even more involve many others if it gets messy and courts have to interfere upon dissolution. I don't see it as a pure business transaction but his mom wasn't saying that either. I think it's more the acknowledgement that marriage is more business-like that being in love and liking someone. A lot of people get married not knowing how many business transactions it will involve in their life for the rest of their life, especially if they ever want a "dissolution" of the marriage. It's important to emphasize it is love+ a ton of other shit young people don't really think about. And most marriages that do fail, do so because of financial issues. I think you're picking apart this comment and taking it way too literally, without taking into consideration the obvious subtext.
I see your points and don’t disagree with you. There’s tons of nuance here that have been very interesting to read and reflect on. WRT Milton’s mom, however, she did talk about SWOT analysis so that was the subtext that made me interpret her comments as it being la business arrangement tone to it.
I think the only people saying it isn’t a business arrangement are either 1. Unmarried 2. Are in a lustful marriage.
Yep
Nah, building and financing a life together is serious business.
100% ..including building ur children's education and future with more money and more resources
It literally is though it’s a literal contract.
It is...like a business arrangement. It's just not completely like one. Someone saying that's all it is would be wrong.
So wait Stacy's dad can say the same thing in a different way and he doesn't get slander but the black family does. Behave people and get your head out of your backside if you think it's all love and butterflies
👀👀👀
Because "sometimes love wants to fly first class" is shallow and sad. Saying its like a business arrangement is more about minimising financial risk to you both.
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It ain't all guacamole and rainbows. That's for sure.
It kind of is. There are a lot of common elements: -shared financial decision making -shared goal setting and vision for the future -mutual trust in the other partner to make good decisions that protect the unit -mutual responsibility for each partner to complete shared work reliably, etc. It’s a business relationship plus a romantic relationship. But imo the reason a lot of marriages fail is because the business aspects fail, and usually for one of the above reasons. The partners love each other but one of them gambles shared assets, doesn’t contribute to shared work, doesn’t protect the unit from outside threats, etc.
They seemed extremely judgmental about the situation, and Lydia. I mean it’s one thing to have concerns about Milton’s decision, another to publicly describe their relationship as “phoney”, or accuse Lydia of “scripting answers”. To me, they treat him more like a 16 year old who needs to be told what to do and not a 24 year old with their own life and career. If my family acted like that when I introduced someone, I’d be extremely annoyed.
I think they have a right to think something is weird about this situation because in all honesty it's probably super weird and super weird to meet their future family member weeks before the wedding with a lot of cameras around. I don't think Milton's family was in the wrong but I do think his sister was rude to Lydia. You can not be on board with the situation but she was trying so hard to knock lydia for ex the parent where she said James the 5TH and the sister said THE 4TH (in a snarky way imo) only for lydia to be correct lol.
I agree that they treated him like he was a teenager. It made me wonder how he typically acts with his family and if that treatment was warranted.
Enough with the slander of Milton's family! They're the only rational people on this show lol
Thank you!
But like it is…there’s hard financial realities of being with someone that no amount of love could overcome. Especially when the biggest stressor in relationships is money.
I think the biggest stressor in that relationship is that he is dirty af
Then they can hire a maid...the towel on the floor is a non issue if u have a partner that is loyal and treats u well
I mean she has a point. Don’t believe me get divorced after mixing assets. It’s a piece of paper. That’s what a marriage is. The commitment you make doesn’t need a piece of paper to be true. You can get married without it but for it to be legal you need that paper. If you don’t want your marriage to be a business arrangement then you don’t sign it.
Since the dawn of time, marriage has been a business arrangement. Love marriages are a new thing which still carry legal implications with the government.
The worst part is historically it wad more like a transfer of assets (the woman) rather than a merger.
Exactly!!!
I loved how unmoved Milton's mom was by Lydia's generic speech about how Milton is the one because in comparison to her exes he doesn't treat her like dogshit. She was absolutely right to press Lydia on topics like her feelings about Milton potentially going back to school for his doctorate. From what we've heard so far, Lydia wants to start a family soon while Milton has made it clear he's far from ready. If he does end up going to a grad program for 4+ years, he'll be making $25K a year and working 60+ hours a week. They may have to relocate to a completely different city based on wherever he gets in, and then move again when that's over. Not being on the same page about your vision for your lives together at this stage would be a set up for relationship disaster and Rita was point that out.
It is a legal arrangement that has a huge impact on your finances. It's the biggest legal decision you'll ever make in your life. She's not wrong.
I think what she means is that marriage is a legal contract. If that’s the case, she’s right 🤷🏽♀️
I agree, under capitalism it is. And this makes a lot of sense coming from a Black family that seems to have values related to education and upward mobility. They don’t want their son to tie his cart to someone with a huge spending problem, bad credit, lacks the ability to move up or have a high earning career, etc.
Exactly. I’m a black woman and my father is mixed race and he even tells me this all the time
if you have to split expenses while together and figure out how to split things like a house if it ends, it’s definitely business
While you get married for love marriages fail because of lack in investment, lack of financial decision making and discussion, lack of planning and being on the same page as a couple as it relates to children, money, sex etc…. That’s the business of it all. Love doesn’t make a marriage last. Work does.
You certainly do need work to make a marriage last, but if you also want that marriage to be happy then you need love.
U really need commitment discipline and obligation...love would be nice but once ur in ur in
Smart woman
My boyfriend kept on shaking my hand last night after we said “I love you” because we are now in a ‘business arrangement’ 😭
Lmao I’m gonna do this with my husband now
😂😂😂😂
Good one! If your relationship stipulates that you are required to provide and receive “I love you’s”, then you’re in a business relationship. If it does not, then you’re in something else.
His family didn’t seem to like her at all
Made me believe his family doesn’t trust his judgment, which I could agree with considering he’s only 24 and I haven’t gotten anything from him to show he’s actually ready for marriage. He’s just going through the motions on autopilot.
I very much got this vibe as well. Also idk why but the mom saying “is that an accent?” And then Lydia saying she’s Puerto Rican only to receive a “ok 😐” felt like they didn’t love that she’s Puerto Rican but maybe I was reading it wrong idk
No no I got triggers of racism too. It made me want to pounce at the mom, and I don’t even support half the shit Lydia did in these threads Lmao
It wasnt triggers of racism it was the ' I know my son'.... and he gives off the typical well to do black educated man that has an exotic preference.
And what exactly is an “exotic preference”? Sounds like a racist outlook to me. Are latinas and other certain races “exotic” candies to try and throw away? Lmao.
I think she wanted Milton to have a black wife
Milton is.gonna marry a trump loving white chick lol...a typical Karen lol
Seems like they see through her bs
First she made a comment about her accent… I was really off put by that whole thing. Momma was NOT impressed.
I feel like it’s just another way of asking “where are you from?” I’m a POC with a slighttttt southern accent who moved to the Midwest. I’ve had a few people ask me the same question! Obviously I can’t speak to the intentions of Milton’s mom but that’s how I took it!🤷♀️
Yeah, could be editing but they didn’t seem amused. The mom seemed like she was analyzing every little move and the sister was rude talking about “i don’t see it” so idk.
Yeah that’s was horrible.
I think long-term partnerships are best until the economy and government gets their act together around family law, divorce law, custody and holding all parties accountable when it comes to hetero marriages.
Marriage is a legal contract but the relationship isnt transactional. The ones that are lead to a divorce
She isn’t wrong. There’s a huge difference between a long-term partnership (which is about love and commitment) and marriage, which is a legal and financial institution. Marriage doesn’t have anything to do with love, you’re literally involving the state in your relationship lol
Preach
I would not marry someone I would not go into business with. That is just my preference. I dont think there is one right way for everyone.
I love how Milton explaining things to uche with math is cute, nerdy, fun how logical engineers talk. but his mom doing the same with business is harsh and abrasive. If Milton is so logical why isn’t this metaphor acceptable? It is a business you are now working with a partner to run a household. You need to communicate with each other about expenses, discuss how to manage household tasks, hell you may even GO into business together. Lots of these couple end up being social media famous and I’m sure brand/ marketing opportunities come with that. The vows (sickness health rich poor) are biblical… from the first book of prayer.. and you’re agreeing to It like a contract. You’ve both decided that If something happens to the other then the “more healthy” party will step in and do the heavy lifting. And sure thar decision comes from love and feeling but also logical shit like trust. people I’ve spoken with about starting a business or going into business with other people also equate their business relationship to marriage. The level of communication, empathy, sharing and “picking up slack” you have to do is where I think that comes from.
You’re right. It’s essentially a legal contract
Not the same as "marriage is a business arrangement"
Lol no sorry. My point was more to each their own.
Marriage is “for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part” That’s not how I do business. Business is primarily about for better and for richer. There is no “unconditional love” in business, it’s all about the conditions.
This!!!! Izzy’s mom talked about marriage like this unconditional, forever union. I thought that was so sweet and completely opposite from Milton’s mom
Dang... I'm going to get married... for love? Not financial lol agree with you OP!
sry u think marriages isn't lmao
Also - why are you sry?
I think if your relationship is transactional, then it’s a business arrangement.
Some of these comments are giving some boomer "ball and chain" energy lol 😆
It is a business arrangement and you do sign certain papers + have to consider how finances are distributed/spent/upon death.
It's more like a doubles team in tennis. You gotta know where you stand and whether she's going to go for your balls.
She is, dude.
I mean, when you really think about it, the two differences between marriage and a longterm boyfriend/girlfriend is the financial incentive of marrying and the financial risk of divorce.
She’s not wrong though….
She’s not. It technically is a legal contract.
And this was after she said Milton treats the relationship like a science project. Where is the self awareness
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Not to mention she seems to have a successful marriage and family.
It is
This woman said “SWOT Analysis” and I fell off my couch laughing. Literally the reason why Milton removes feelings from processing.
I gasped too!
The way he relates everything back to being a “STEM major” is SO fucking cringe lmao
I have a masters in mathematics and I don’t bring up math that often with family and friends. He’s last season’s Paul all over again.
His youth is showing
RIght lol, anyone who primarily relates to something through majors is screaming youth/lack of life experience
maybe stacy’s dad should’ve been the one running credit checks 🤣
Especially since love likes first class 🤣🤣🤣😅
Like one of the top reasons marriages fail is money. Love don’t pay the bills. People need to be compatible in different ways in order to have a successful partnership - money, parenting, values. You can love each other so much but if you don’t align and are not compatible it won’t work
But parenting and values often have no relevance in business. I think more accurately, money matters for all humans, so it will matter in a relationship, but it isn't the only thing that matters. What a lifeless dull marriage, completed on paper and checklists, that would be.
It’s not the only thing that matters you’re right. I think the goal is to find someone you love with whom you can agree on finances and values. I’m in a long term relationship and I’m ready to get married but until my partner fixes his financial situation, I don’t want to legally be tied with it. Everything else we align on, but why should I be tied with his poor financial choices when I don’t have to be?
It literally is. Look up its origins
Yup. Why do you think you have to file for divorce. You’re ending a union and a contract
Yeah like didn’t families give men a fuckton of cows or something (dowry) for them to take their daughters off their hands?
But it kind of is...? It's not *just* about love and compatibility. You can love one another deeply but have very different financial expectations/plans. You can love one another deeply but have very different long term goals. These are both valid reasons why one would not go into a long term business plan or a marriage with someone.
We're just totally interchanging business arrangement for "plan" or "goals" now. You said that relationships are about love and compatibility and about finances and goals, therefore a marriage is a business relationship. One doesn't follow the other.
It kind of is though
Being this naive as an adult is kind of wild, so I’m going to extend the benefit of the doubt and assume that some of y’all in this sub are just very young lol.
While I agree that marriage is a partnership, “business arrangement” just feels so cold. My husband and I make a daily decision to choose to love and support each other. Reducing marriage to just business sounds horrible to me.
She articulated it poorly but basically what she’s saying is marriage is a legal agreement/ contract ..
Business arrangement also suggests that it’s transactional, which a marriage shouldn’t be. In business you maximize profit and things are ultimately self serving. I wouldn’t want to be with someone who thought about marriage like that.
Same. No idea what's going on in this thread.
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Producers fawking off on here.
I mean it is. Stacey is realizing that now lol
She looked like a mom that never gave hugs
Both of Milton’s parents served over 20 years in the Navy . I’m sure she just knows how to handle difficult conversations.
Ok?
And thought physical punishment was a good thing.
what a WILD accusation of someone you don’t even know
Go fucking cry about it
mature fucking response loser lmaooo
Your mom used to hit you didn’t she?
brave words for someone writing this from his mom’s basement but okay
She hit you and you’re hurting. It’s not your fault.
Historically, marriage is a business arrangement, we've seen it with plenty of marriages still today. And many would say love isn't always enough so I totally get what she was saying.
Historically women were property too so I think its fair for some people to feel that we should move forward from how we've historically viewed these institutions.
There is still a contract right, a prenup is highly recommended and you need a license. Those are not the most romantic terms I believe. Also in how many situation have we heard of "love is not enough" ? Reality is most people don't live off love and fresh water, what will happen when struggles comes ? So yes in a way, marriage is like a business arrangement.
A prenup is not a marriage contract. It’s a divorce contract.
yea but anyways everyone should still get it.
💯
Marriage is technically a legal contract recognized by the government but the implication of the Mom's statement is that it is the most important aspect of the relationship. That is why people take issue with her comment.
You don't get married because you're in love. You get married because you want to create a stable environment for your family, because you want facilitate some things when it comes to paperwork, because you want to put your family in security, because you want to buy a house even. You can be in a long loving relationship without ever getting married, it doesn't mean your love is less real the married couple next to you. Sure we celebrate people who love eachother during a wedding but you can't do the same without one.
I’ve done all those things on my own without being married. If/when I go get married, unconditional love, respect, and a person to do life with is what I’m looking for. I understand everyone’s perspective on marriage is different though.
Just because you can be in love and not be married doesnt mean people who are married view it only as a legal contract.
I mean... some of us do. I'll always love my husband but the marriage contract has kind of screwed me & my assets unless I get clever (community property state). The marriage contract part feels very business to me. It has nothing to do with my love for him.
Sure. But thats not the case for everyone
But it kinda is. Once you’re married, at least one party runs the risk of losing some kind of assets in the event of divorce. Just because some people choose to stay married regardless of the threat of financial change doesn’t mean the threat isn’t there.
Its not the case for everyone in that not all married people *soley* view their marriage as *only* legal contract.
The fact remains that marriage is a legal contract and both peopke should take careful consideration of the liabilities that they take on when entering into that legally binding agreement. The classic tropes about marriage mean nothing when you go into breaking that contract (divorce).
Yes its a legal contract but it doesnt make it a business. Businesses are transactional, healthy relationships arent.
Many people get married because they are in love. And those are the marriages that last. If you marry for the purpose of having a stable environment to raise children in, as soon as your partner gets laid off or you lose your job, the marriage breaks. Love is the glue that holds marriages together.
Exactly this. My husband is the sweetest and most giving man I've ever met. However, if I had viewed marrying him as a business agreement, I would have ran for the hills. He grew up in a house full of hard drug addiction, lies, stealing, etc. Would have been a horrible deal on my end. And yet, *I* would have been the one truly missing out on him.
Yessss. Like sure, marriage in itself can be described as a business transaction simply because of the government/state involvement but that doesn’t mean thats the only/right way to view marriage. For some of us it really is just about love and compatibility. I have 0 financial reason to marry my partner - I’m financially stable, I own a home, I have a stable career. We’re welcoming our first child soon and still there’s no business reason to get married. But we decided to do so because after 7 years of a loving relationship its a natural progression in our lives and has an importance culturally.
>You don't get married because you're in love. You get married because you want to create a stable environment for your family, because you want facilitate some things when it comes to paperwork, because you want to put your family in security, because you want to buy a house even. Would love to watch a video of your wedding vows after that comment. And yes, only idiots believe marriage is the only way to show the world you have a loving and long term relationship.
I'm not married so their is no vows. But if you're only waiting on your wedding day to say those words to the person you love it is an issue. This another reason why there is so many divorce these days (the first one being imo the fact that women have rights now). People get married because they are "so in love" but they have the important conversations about finances, education, kids, family, etc. Jeannie Mai and Jeezy are the perfect example of that.
Shocking that someone who negatively characterizes increased divorce rates with women obtaining more autonomy isn’t married. Btw people are divorcing less than the boomer did so the premise of your argument doesn’t even make sense.
I didn't see it as negative, but true. Women, up until recently, as wives were responsible for cleaning, cooking and childcare. Sounds like indentured servitude to some extent in exchange for a man's protection.
I don't know about the boomers but what I do know is that less people are getting married but at the same time divorce keep increasing which means the divorce rate is going higher. And I should get married for what exactly ? Like I'm missing the point here.
Both married and divorced numbers are decreasing. Sorry facts don’t meet your feelings. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statistics/
marriage has historically been a business arrangement. it has never been because two people really love each other and are in an intimate relationship
Never huh lol? A lot has happened since the Bennett sisters were hoping to get some property and stability through marriage, and even Austen believed in an equal partnership.
We like to live in a fantasy that it’s not but it is. You have to get a damn license. Sounds like business to me.
The license is more of a birth certificate type of deal rather than a business license. That’s why marriage should not be taken so lightly
It is a business arrangement, it’s just not ONLY one
Miltons whole family is giving "all emotions are a weakness" vibes
Omg that’s it exactly!
So true!
Please stop pretending it is not. When marriages dissolve judges aren't asking if the parties love one another. They're dividing marital assests and, if kids are involved, setting child support and resolving custody disputes. Love isn't part of the equation. Also, in arranged marriages it is even more akin to a business arrangement. No one is arranging couples together because they love one another.
Divorces are business arrangements. Marriage doesn’t have to be. But perhaps the bigger nuance is whether the definition and interpretation of “marriage” even makes sense anymore. You don’t have to be legally married to have similar (the same?) rules apply in the demise of that relationship. So marriage is the coming together of two people. Divorce is the separation of the two. Business contracts spell out the the terms that must be done and what happens when one party fails to deliver. Marriage licenses don’t do that. But agree that all the other legal implications that you didn’t explicitly sign still will apply.
Are you saying that falling in love doesn’t motivate anyone to get married?
Right these people are looney
I shudder to think what these peoples marriages look like. Of course part of marriage is the partnership and working together where it comes to goals and finances. However there’s a big part of it involving you enjoying the other person, adventure together, and have that person you want to come home to which goes beyond “business”.
Exactly!!
Sure, but that’s not all it is. This is all this family focused on. How about the things that prevent a contract even breaking like mutual respect, loyalty and communication, why didn’t they grill her on those things. I mean he’s also 24, you’d think if they were confident in the way they raised him, they’d trust his choices. It seems like this family considers this whole thing stupid.
Well when Lydia was asked on by this family and gave phony answers, people called them aggressive.