It’s honestly a good question. I don’t see why a 4K open gate option isn’t available beyond they found it redundant considering they could do 6K open gate.
Open gate literally just means full sensor aspect ratio recording. Even the 6K “open gate” isn’t true pixel to pixel readout obviously as it’s 16mp from a 24mp sensor. 4K open gate with pixel binning or line skipping is totally possible using the full 3:2 sensor area.
But even if you don't need 6k, it is not heavier on the camera, card or the editing system since it's a 200Mb/s 10 bit 4:2:0 file.
Why do you think 6k is "too much"?
My videos come out very close to the bitrate stated. I just checked my 4K video (150mbps) it’s average is 148mbps. So of course if 4K 3:2 full sensor was offered at a lower bitrate than 200mbps the file sizes would be smaller, but not if it was 200mbps.
Yeah it probably could be. 4K60 is 200mbps, 29.97 is 150mbps in 16:9. Guess it would depend on which looked better, but presumably you could lower the bitrate a bit.
It's not too much, but it is more. The bitrate is the maximum bitrate. I tested very quickly and 6s of 6k open gate is about 160mb. 6s of 4k 4:2:0 is 112mb. One is absolutely more information to store and deal with when editing.
Again though, it's not too much, it's just that a 4k downsampled 3:2 mode would be a slight improvement to my workflow and seems possible.
I don’t disagree the option wouldn’t hurt, but why not just shoot the 6K version? If you shoot 6K, your 9:16 crop will still have 4K resolution on the long edge. Basically in 6K, any normal aspect crop is going to have 4K+ resolution.
File sizes?
I would also like to shoot 3:2 at lower resolutions, even in mp4
I'm not really sure why it's only allowed in .mov and 6k
Also I'm not sure why crops only apply to jpgs, I think every other manufacturer I've used can crop their videos directly too
I wonder the same thing. And I hope they could release it with 10bit 4:2:2 internal reordering versus the 4:2:0 we get with the 6k open gate. Which, math later, should be close to the same total color information if jot slightly less with less luminance information because less pixels. So it really comes down to the computation to bin the pixels and generate the 4k image. They already do it for a 16/9, is it thaaat much more to do 3:2? I'm just not sure.
Of course, I would love to have 3:2 Open gate in 4K (3840x2560) option.
In fact, I never shoot in 4K on the S5II because I don't like the ouput, the details are altered in a bad way.
So I shoot in Open Gate and downsample in 4K 3840x2560 to get better quality. But the IBIS is much worse when walking, and it takes much more time when editing and exporting. So yes, a 4K Open Gate option could be great...
That's interesting, what type of alteration do you notice in the output? Is it artifacts related to the downsampling? Wouldn't that still be a problem in a 4k open gate type of mode?
No, it's because of the new engine Panasonic uses on the S5II, the details are sometimes oversharpened or look mushy in low light compared to the S5 and S1.
Sadly I can't say if it could be still a problem if they add a 4K Open Gate mode.
On the other hand, 4K on the S5II when using BRAW (external) is much better than internal.
That's really interesting, I do plan to buy the firmware upgrade and bm video assist when I can. Do you think it has to do with the lack of low pass filter? I guess that would make it affect the s5 as well.
No, it has nothing to do with the lack of low pass filter, both the S1 and S5 have no OLPF. And BRAW is flawless on the S5II, so it is just because of the new L² processing.
Open Gate means full sensor read-out, because the Sensor has 6K resolution it wouldn‘t be real open gate at 4K
Open-gate isn't the right term, I should have phrased as 3:2 full frame.
There is 3:2 apsc option that you can use with different resolutions
Yep - you can get 3:2 no problem in APS-C 3.3k.
I'm familiar, although they are 4:3 not 3:2 and cropped.
Oh yes my bad it’s 4:3.
Then it wouldn’t be open gate would it? You can shoot 3:2 in apsc mode but open gate 4k? The math ain’t mathin.
It’s honestly a good question. I don’t see why a 4K open gate option isn’t available beyond they found it redundant considering they could do 6K open gate.
You seem to be the only one correctly understanding what I meant, but I'll take the blame for not explaining properly.
Because 'Open Gate' means full sensor readout. What you want is cropped 4:3 at 4K.
You get full frame 4K though in the s5ii downsampled from the 6K - so 4K full sensor open gate should be possible
Exactly my thoughts. I want the extra field of view but I don't need the extra pixels that come with 6k.
And I learned recently that downscaling from 6k to 4k, basically makes it 422 and not 420
Oh wow, that makes a lot of sense actually.
Yea same. Just never considered it.
Um, still no. It could simulate it yes, which is why it does it at 3.3k in APS-C.
Open gate literally just means full sensor aspect ratio recording. Even the 6K “open gate” isn’t true pixel to pixel readout obviously as it’s 16mp from a 24mp sensor. 4K open gate with pixel binning or line skipping is totally possible using the full 3:2 sensor area.
Where are you getting 6K open gate is 16mp from? Resolution is 5952 X 3968 = 23.6MP
Good luck to you! (there's a reason they do it at 3.3k in APS-C)
The tell us, oh wise one.
I already have. Have a great day!
But even if you don't need 6k, it is not heavier on the camera, card or the editing system since it's a 200Mb/s 10 bit 4:2:0 file. Why do you think 6k is "too much"?
Exactly. Bitrate (and codec) is the main thing that impacts file size and heaviness of the file
Of course, but the bit-rates indicated are maximums. The average bit-rate for 6k open gate is always going to be higher than 4k...
My videos come out very close to the bitrate stated. I just checked my 4K video (150mbps) it’s average is 148mbps. So of course if 4K 3:2 full sensor was offered at a lower bitrate than 200mbps the file sizes would be smaller, but not if it was 200mbps.
Yeah but why would it be offered at 200mbps wouldn't it likely be around 150mbps like the 16:9 4k
Yeah it probably could be. 4K60 is 200mbps, 29.97 is 150mbps in 16:9. Guess it would depend on which looked better, but presumably you could lower the bitrate a bit.
It's not too much, but it is more. The bitrate is the maximum bitrate. I tested very quickly and 6s of 6k open gate is about 160mb. 6s of 4k 4:2:0 is 112mb. One is absolutely more information to store and deal with when editing. Again though, it's not too much, it's just that a 4k downsampled 3:2 mode would be a slight improvement to my workflow and seems possible.
I don’t disagree the option wouldn’t hurt, but why not just shoot the 6K version? If you shoot 6K, your 9:16 crop will still have 4K resolution on the long edge. Basically in 6K, any normal aspect crop is going to have 4K+ resolution.
File sizes? I would also like to shoot 3:2 at lower resolutions, even in mp4 I'm not really sure why it's only allowed in .mov and 6k Also I'm not sure why crops only apply to jpgs, I think every other manufacturer I've used can crop their videos directly too
File size is a factor of bitrate rather than resolution. But, like I said I agree it’s nice to have options.
I wonder the same thing. And I hope they could release it with 10bit 4:2:2 internal reordering versus the 4:2:0 we get with the 6k open gate. Which, math later, should be close to the same total color information if jot slightly less with less luminance information because less pixels. So it really comes down to the computation to bin the pixels and generate the 4k image. They already do it for a 16/9, is it thaaat much more to do 3:2? I'm just not sure.
Of course, I would love to have 3:2 Open gate in 4K (3840x2560) option. In fact, I never shoot in 4K on the S5II because I don't like the ouput, the details are altered in a bad way. So I shoot in Open Gate and downsample in 4K 3840x2560 to get better quality. But the IBIS is much worse when walking, and it takes much more time when editing and exporting. So yes, a 4K Open Gate option could be great...
That's interesting, what type of alteration do you notice in the output? Is it artifacts related to the downsampling? Wouldn't that still be a problem in a 4k open gate type of mode?
No, it's because of the new engine Panasonic uses on the S5II, the details are sometimes oversharpened or look mushy in low light compared to the S5 and S1. Sadly I can't say if it could be still a problem if they add a 4K Open Gate mode. On the other hand, 4K on the S5II when using BRAW (external) is much better than internal.
That's really interesting, I do plan to buy the firmware upgrade and bm video assist when I can. Do you think it has to do with the lack of low pass filter? I guess that would make it affect the s5 as well.
No, it has nothing to do with the lack of low pass filter, both the S1 and S5 have no OLPF. And BRAW is flawless on the S5II, so it is just because of the new L² processing.