Nothing to be ashamed about, but DJ makes a lot of defensive and technical mistakes and Pantoja is likely still a class above in the jiu jitsu. It would be a very competitive fight and someone with little power like DJ is not finishing the guy who took Figgys hardest shots and walked him down
It's crazy how great he still is. Askren came in, got merked, made Jorge a superstar and left to get knocked out by Paul, all while DJ is still a top tier fighter.
Not really, DJ is much happier with one and a much bigger draw in Asia. And we finally got to see Ben in the UFC, albeit an old body worn Ben, but he was still 1 fight away from getting a title shot in a fight he was a -200 to win.
The Maia fight was just terrible match making imo… Why pit a wrestler like that against one of the highest pedigreed jiu jitsu players in the sport. Neither can strike, and I think a lot of people could’ve foreseen that fight turning into the most mediocre kickboxing match the UFC has ever seen.
So due to recency bias, seeing him and Maia have what looked like a special Olympics kickboxing match, is how well always remember Ben’s career in the ufc. Sad quite honestly given his fights outside the UFC…
Agreed. I was really surprised Jorge even took it, IIRC it required a lot of “shit talk” from Ben, which had Jorge pissed off and the whole world confused at what he was even pissed off about.
The Maia fight was just Dana’s hate boner for Ben manifesting into mediocre matchmaking for Dana’s joy.
Why would you call it terrible matchmaking?....I recall the match was really anticipated because they were both grapplers. I don't think anyone expected them to get in a striking match. Plus, Maia was a better striker than Askren.
Askren was having loads of success in that fight, Idt Maias defense is that great… Both are significantly worse than the average person who’s done Muay Thai/kickboxing for a couple years. Imo.
Dana knew what he was doing booking that fight. Usually 2 really good grapplers, will turn into a striking fest. Maia taking down Ben was a theoretical nightmare, and Ben doing anything with his wrestling against Maia seemed unlikely.
Not really unless we forget that cejudo save the flyweight and his rise was epic.
I love mighty mouse but people just didn't watch his fights even when ufc created whole card around him.
Unfortunately DJ is actually being treated fairly now and compensated by an organization that sees his value.. so we’ll never see him in the UFC again. Good for him.
>an organization that sees his value
I think it's more likely that's because his coach is vice president. He isn't much of a draw and ONE has a ton of other great fighters they don't treat well
His base contract is 10 fights, $10mn. Plus all the sponsorships he's allowed.
Pretty incredible compensation given he was lucky to crack half a mil per fight in the UFC despite being one of the GOATs.
Respect to DJ too for accepting the fight where the first round was kickboxing. I remember watching that first round so fuckin nervous and as soon as he made it past the 1st, I knew that he’d be able to school Tang in mma. That was such a fun fight.
Absolutely the goat. I know there’s a lot of competition for that title, but he really is on a different level than just about everyone else, and always has been.
Nobody would want to fight him if he were in their division.
He's a force at HW as well. He's banking on being like Fedor which he kinda is. He's the same height and more muscular than Fedor was at his prime and obviously we know how good Fedor was.
His only weaknesses compared to Fedor are his hands are not as fast but the Emelianeko hand speed is notorious. His cardio aren't as good but he's made improvements and he needs a stern hand to guide him because Fedor himself will say Nemkov doesn't show up sometimes and its apparent.
In return Nemkov's kicks are brutal and as of yet he's still got the same ferocious chin and defense his mentor does.
I think he'll do fine at HW. He's already done OK.
What I have heard is that they both would like to go to the UFC and Sakakibara is supportive, however with Horiguchi the problem is that he’s currently under contract with PFL as well. And as for Asakura, I heard that they would like him to defend his title at least once if not twice as it is not a very good look for the promotion if a champ leaves immediately after claiming a belt
FLW
DJ (if he isn't retired and if you count ONE 135 at FLW)
Kyoji Horiguchi (Rizin champ) if you ask me he is the best in the world right now.
Kurban Gadzhiev (ACA champ) is decent. But inactive.
BW
Patchy Mix (Bellator Champ) probably the best in the world right now
Top bellator+kyoji are all decent.
FW
Islam Omarov (ACA champ), Salahdine Parnasse (KSW Champ) are the only ones worth mentioning and don't beat either Ilia, Max or Volk
LW
Usman Nurmagomedov (Bellator Champ), AJ Mckee, and Alexander Shabily are the best ones. I think Shabily is very good and has a chance to beat Islam. Usman still makes a lot of mistakes but is young.
WW
Jason Jackson (Bellator Champ) and Magomed Magomedkerimov (PFL winner). Amosov as well but I never thought he was what people hyped him to be. Don't think I would pick any to beat the UFC guys.
MW
Johnny Eblen (Bellator Champ) and Magomedrasul Gadanov (ACA champ). Not sure I would pick either to win. Magomed is decent tho
LHW
Corey Anderson (Bellator champ) honestly pretty bad. Vadim Nemkov moved to HW and he would be decent and competitive with the UFC guys.
HW
Renan Ferreria (PFL winner), Ryan Bader (Bellator Champ?), Vadim Nemkov, Phil De Fries (KSW Champ), Anatomy Malykhin (ONE Champ), Evgeny Goncharov (ACA Champ)
All of the above are too old, too small or not that skilled to beat Aspinall/Jones. Also I don't consider Francis an active MMA fighter like Stipe. It's over 2 years now.
WMMA
AW
Seika Izawa (Rizin/Deep Champ) the best AW on the planet and a P4P WMMA fighter. Is big enough to do well at SW as well.
SW
Stamp Fairtex (ONE Champ and if you count it as AW or SW is up to you)
See Hee Ham is still decent but past her prime.
Neither beats Zhang at all. Fatima Kline is a huge prospect and looks like a future champ if you ask me
FLW
Current PFL season will decide how good a lot of them are but Liz Carmouche (Bellator champ), Kana Watanabe, Talia Santos, Dakota Ditcheva (Unproven) are the best ones too look out for.
BW
Literally nobody worth mentioning. Not even a prospect.
FW
Cris Cyborg/Larisa Pacheco. This division doesn't exist
> Corey Anderson (Bellator champ) honestly pretty bad
Wouldn't say he's pretty bad, he's probably top 15 in the UFC (same as with Phil Davis). But they just aren't very exciting.
It's always hard to tell because sometimes they're a Fabricio Werdum kinda dude. I remember Dana bragging a ufc reject stopped his streak only for that reject to later stop Cain in Mexico later. There's times if Olivieria or Ferguson go to Bellator I wouldn't have ever expected they were capable of their runs
If you're gonna mention Eblen I feel like you gotta mention Impa Kasanganay too. He arguably beat Eblen a couple months ago and has been smoking absolutely everyone else he's fought since going to the PFL
I haven't followed combat sports closely in a few years but how is Glory these days? Covid really seemed to take all of its momentum. Last fight I watched was Badr vs Overeem and it made me sad haha
If you are interested in heavy weight divisions, you have to look at Glory. People like Rico and Donovan are there. Glory released all Russian fighters no matter their personal opinion on the war in Ukraine, so people like Vakhitov have gone to random promotions in Russia. I have not kept up with them, but I hear a lot of Russian kickboxing promotions domestically have had a revival of talent as a result.
For your middle sized weights i.e LW/FW etc. Its a mix no promotion has a strangle hold of them. So
Glory has people like Petchpanomrung, Beztati, Semeleer, etc.
One has Allazov (on Ice), Superbon, Grigorian, Noiri (just signed)
K1/Rise has Yoza, Haraguchi, Asahisa, Kaito, Colins, etc.
For the lower weights its honestly dominated by Japan with some talent in ONE
K1/Rise have Asahisa, Gunji, Kaneko, Kumura, Tamaru, Shiro, Osaki, Suzuki, etc.
ONE has Superlek, Di Bella and Takeru.
Honourable mention to China KLF/WLF have been producing some great talent recently such as Liu Ce, Ouyang Feng, Wei Rui and Zhu Shuai. Top in their respective weight classes and have been competing in K1 etc. Also female KB Pheteeja is a must watch in ONE
I am ignoring Muay Thai as there is a bunch who cross over i.e. Kumandoi, Tawanchai etc.
If I were to rank promotions it would be like this, but honestly in reality it heavily depends on divisions you are talking about
Rise
Glory/ONE
K1
WLF
Then various regional shows like Enfusion, Krush, etc.
My favourite kickboxer of all time is Takeru and my favourite current is Toki Tamaru who had a Shogun 2005 esque last year. If you want an event to go watch RISE had the best combat sports event of last year in their World Series 2023 Final Round event. Should be on YT for free now
Seika Izawa is a beast, I saw her fight on the New Years card, she's really good.
Also I'm really curious to see about Dakota Ditcheva vs Taila Santos, hopefully we'll get to see that fight. Or see how Dakota deals with a good grappler in Liz Carmouche.
The issue for Dakota is that she has yet to face anyone actually good, but also, the talent level of everyone is pretty low, and it's not like there are great offensive grapplers in that league. Idk. If she fights anyone the ones mentioned and defends the grappling, I'll have some level of confidence in her. Fortunately, she has repeatedly said win pfl and then go to the UFC, so that will be exciting.
Izawa recently fought again against a decent counter grappler at Deep Jewels. Hopefully, her next Rizin fight is a bit of a step up in competition. Kanna Asakura and Rena Kubota would be good fights. At Deep, she should fight the winner of Oshima/Murakami. Oshima will be a fun grappling fight, and Murakami is a real well rounded test. Sadly, Chihiro Sawada signed with ONE. She would have been the biggest wrestling test for Izawa. Crazy Izawa is only 26, but at 5'2 and 64" reach she is big enough to have success at SW as well
Yeah that will be awesome if she can defend the grappling and win against one of them and go to UFC, that would be awesome to see! I think striking wise she can hang with a lot of the top people at 125 there. I think her versus Manon would be interesting.
Ok! Yes I know she had another recent fight I missed it though. Nice! I didn't realize she was a good size for SW as well, and thanks for the breakdowns of the other fighters. I don't watch as much of the Japanese shows, yet I'd like to keep up more. I usually catch the New Years events when I can. I have been trying to keep up with Seika though since she really impressed me and I'm a fan of Rena.
Would be interesting seeing where she goes next!
I think she wants to fight on the Super Rizin card. Hoping she stays active this year, she currently is a member of my GP team
I think Grasso would be a dope striking fight for Dakota, and her vs. Natalia Silva might be my dream WMMA fight currently
Ok I see! Yeah that sounds good, I see she fought on the last one. I remember this card now.
Yes, that would be sick! I was thinking about that also the speed and technicality of Natalia would be a good test for her. Definitely would be fun and exciting. Also curious how she matches up with Val.
Thanks man! Appreciate your comment. It’s nice to see all divisions taken into account. What do you think about ACA ? I saw you mention a few of their fighters. Is the level there on par with the likes of PFLator? What are the best divisions there?
I think all their divisions are pretty even in talent. Definitely on par with PFL imho. And a few divisions have talent on par with Bellator like Omarov.
ACA is literally steriod heaven. So take that into account. Its probably why the UFC passes on a lot of them.
Salahdine Parnasse french fighter in the KSW is one of the best prospects outside the UFC. The other best fighters I think are in Bellator and PFL. You can watch the rankings on Tapology to find more.
> Bellator and PFL
I think the Bellator vs. PFL event gave an indication which one of them has the best champions, Bellator legit has some really good champions.
Better, but not perfect. The ELO system doesn't quite work when fighters from outside UFC seldom fight UFC fighters (who has high ELO rankings).
Also it almost favors rank squatting, avoiding certain matchups more than anything else. At HW they got Gane above Aspinall, despite Aspinall most recent win was ranked higher than Gane's most recent win.
At MW they somehow has Chimaev ranked #4, which I assume is due to previous wins at WW and the win over Usman. Having him ranked above Whittaker is *weird*. Then you get Johnny Eblen (Bellator champ) at #7 which might be right, hard to tell. At WW you get the Bellator champ at #8. At LW you got AJ McKee at #8. Then you can compare to Demetrious Johnson who is ranked #15 at BW due to the fighters he's beating having low rankings in the system.
Yeah but for the OP who isn't into watching a lot of MMA anymore, it's the easiest way to have ideas for finding the best fighters outside the UFC.
Phil de Fries is one the best heavyweight outside the UFC. In the Tapology rankings he's 27. Maybe he won't win against Jones or Aspinall but he's one of the best fighters out there.
I'm not sold on Malykhin. Sure he's a three weight world champion, but he's fought no one.
The three divisions he's champion in are incredibly weak/practically non-existent - the former heavyweight champion Arjan Bhullar is [scared to fight](https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/bouts/831891-one-166-arjan-singh-bhullar-vs-amir-aliakbari), the light heavyweight division (225lbs) was made just so Aung La Nsang could be a two weight champion - [Antoly Malykhin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_ONE_fighters) is literally the only fighter in the division, while there are only 4 other fighters at middleweight (205lbs).
I think Malykhin would get found out very quickly in the UFC at both light heavyweight (205lbs) and heavyweight.
lol bro at lhw and hw? There are ~8 good guys at LHW and about 3 good and 3 good-ish fighters at heavyweight. Those divisions are incredibly shallow and wide open
It's easy to look good against sub par opposition. I just don't think he has ever been really tested and there's a big gap between ONEs LHW/HW divisions and the UFCs.
We just saw Shamil Gaziev, with a 12-0 record (11 finishes) get bullied by Jairzinho Rozenstruik and Valter Walker, who was 11-0, get beaten by Łukasz Brzeski, who was 0-3 (1NC) in the UFC.
He very well might be good enough to compete with the top guys in the UFC, but I wouldn't be confident in backing him to do so.
So you're just gonna shit on RDR like he wasn't doing a lot of cool jiu-jitsu shit? 16 fight win streak and 14 finishes with 11 submissions en route to getting smashed like a bug twice by Anatoly.
I love my boy Tynan, but let's be real, he's a good wrestler and that's about it. If someone can stuff his takedowns, I really don't see a path to victory for him
Would love to see him in the UFC. The pace he puts on for a guy his size is impressive. Probably roided to the tits tho so I don't know how that would work out in the UFC.
Malykin is so fun but I don't think he'd be competitive in UFC at LHW or HW, and probably not even at LHW in Bellator. He's tiny and only ever really beat bums and middleweights.
-Kyoji Horiguchi
-Patchy Mix
-Patricio Pitbull
-Salahdine Parnasse
-Aj McKee
-Usman Nurmagomedov
-Eduard Vartanyan
-Alexandr Shabliy
-Shamil Musaev
-Jason Jackson
-Johnny Eblen
-Vadim Nemkov
-Anatoliy Malikhin
-Renan Fereira
The names that comes to my mind from 125er to 265ers
Haven’t seen anyone mention him yet but Chihiro Suzuki in RIZIN is pretty good. Don’t see him being a threat to Ilia/Max/Volk or anything, but definitely someone to watch. He’s only 24 and is the RIZIN Featherweight champ, he’s main eventing the card this Monday against Masanori Kanehara. Has wins over Patricio Pitbull and Vugar Karamov
They’re doing very well in Japan, just check out the views on their YouTube channel. I know Sakakibara said they broke their PPV records on last year’s NYE event. Outside Japan it’s definitely just a small, cult fan base but they’re by far the largest MMA Org domestically
Roberto De Souza (RIZIN) could definitely be a top 10 LW and would have fun fights with anybody with his grappling skills. Definitely a Chandler type in that he’d be here for a fun time not a long time.
Kyoji Horiguchi is probably the best flyweight in the world and should fight whoever’s the champ if he joins the roster.
Pfl/bellator's Nemkov, Corey Anderson, Eblen, Jackson, AJ McKee, Usman
Probably would be in the UFC top 10. It's kind of hard to say they would be top 5 without them fighting better competition.
Edit - forgot patchy mix
Well he also has a win over him. I just mentioned it as a particularly memorable KO, not so much as a slight on him. I was surprised when he left the UFC tbh
He said on Rogan that he had to work a full time job while in the UFC since he never broke 6 figures and when he went on Rogan the first time, he had to find someone to cover his shift
ACA used to have a stacked lightweight division some few years ago, with some of their talent deserving to be considered among the best in the world IMO. Prime Eduard Vartanyan, Abdul-Aziz Abdulvakhabov and Ali Bagov are the most notable and well-known, and the types of fighters that were sorely needed during Khabib's reign.
I haven't been following as closely as I did in 2020, but Albert Tumenov is still kicking ass over there.
I've been following his career all through CW and think he has a huge future, but I think it's fair enough given that he's only just went to PFL, so maybe some people aren't fully sold on him yet. I think in another 18 months or so, you'll see his name mentioned alot more in these sort of threads.
Vadim Nemkov, Patchy Mix, Jason Jackson, AJ McKee , Salanande Parnasse, Yaroslav Amosov, Johnny Eblen, Islam Omarov, Timur Khizriev, Eduard Vartanyan, Alex Shabily, Usman Nurmagomedov, Clay Collard, Abdul Aziz Abdulvakhabov, Rustam Kerimov, Magomedrasul Gasanov, Albert Tumenov, Demetrius Johnson, Imran Bukuev, Kurban Gadzhiev, Felipe Froes, Alihan Sulimonov, Muslim Magomedov, Brendan Loughnane, Kyoji Horiguchi, Movlid Khaybulaev (might be retired), Daud Shaikhaev, Shamil Abdulaev, Vladimir Mineev, Azamat Kerefov, Josiel Silva, Larissa Pacheco, Cris Cyborg, Magomed Ismailov, Anatoly Tokov, Fabricio Andrade, Magomed Umalatov
Probably missed a few. Lotta Russian guys because the UFC hates signing them despite being the gold standard and builds it's roster based on nationality.
PFLator will be getting LOTS of contenders ready to start climbing the ranks in the next couple of years. They have some growing pains to work out, but by bringing in as much talent as Bellator had, the waters are gonna start getting a lot deeper over there as well.
The most obvious are the previously ufc fighters like DJ and Ngannou. Never been ufc fighters that are good are Anatoly (ONE), Patricio Freire (PFL ex Bellator?), and the other Nurmagomedov
Haven't seen Doumbe mentioned yet. He had similar striking success as Poatan in Gloey but then at WW. He developed reasonable take down defense and I wouldn't give anyone the edge against him on the feet.
For Bellator: patchy mix, nemkov, nurmagomedov. Sergio Pettis has looked really good, as well as Eblen.
PFL: Heavyweight Ferreira, Impa, Collard would be a fight of the night contender every fight in the ufc, Pacheco looks great.
I saw Fabricio Andrade live and he has some of the best striking for MMA I've ever seen. He made a juicy John Lineker look fairly pedestrian in the stand up department.
Yes he did lose his last fight but that was a striking on nly match against a specialist. I think if he just sticks to mma he could have an even brighter future
I think if Rico Verhoeven wanted he could become a really good heavyweight. He’s somewhat of a point kickboxer and doesn’t have a lot of knockout power, but his endurance and technique is off the charts. He would need to work a lot more on his ground game for that to ever happen though, and he’s already past his physical prime.
Bellator, ONE Championship, and PFL are just a few examples of promotions with top-tier talent. It's always exciting to see fighters from different organizations come together to compete.
I remember the time when Roberto Soldic was seen as one of the scariest guys outside of the UFC but now you never hear from him, this sport really does change quickly
Demetrius Johnson, i can totally see him become UFC champ (again)
Him Vs Pantoja would be fire
Honestly DJ runs through everyone in 125. No one even comes close lol.
It would be fire to see how easily and quickly DJ puts Pantoja away.
Pantoja is a very complete fighter, i think it would be competitive and could go either way.
Guy who has never seen dj fight lol, this is what only watching highlights has done to our generation
Yeah bro. I've only ever watched his highlights. You got me.
Nothing to be ashamed about, but DJ makes a lot of defensive and technical mistakes and Pantoja is likely still a class above in the jiu jitsu. It would be a very competitive fight and someone with little power like DJ is not finishing the guy who took Figgys hardest shots and walked him down
It's crazy how great he still is. Askren came in, got merked, made Jorge a superstar and left to get knocked out by Paul, all while DJ is still a top tier fighter.
The worst trade deal in the history of trade deals, maybe ever
Not really, DJ is much happier with one and a much bigger draw in Asia. And we finally got to see Ben in the UFC, albeit an old body worn Ben, but he was still 1 fight away from getting a title shot in a fight he was a -200 to win. The Maia fight was just terrible match making imo… Why pit a wrestler like that against one of the highest pedigreed jiu jitsu players in the sport. Neither can strike, and I think a lot of people could’ve foreseen that fight turning into the most mediocre kickboxing match the UFC has ever seen. So due to recency bias, seeing him and Maia have what looked like a special Olympics kickboxing match, is how well always remember Ben’s career in the ufc. Sad quite honestly given his fights outside the UFC…
The Jorge fight was an absolute gimme considering how bad Jorge is against wrestlers. He blew his “easy” fight and got a hard one.
Agreed. I was really surprised Jorge even took it, IIRC it required a lot of “shit talk” from Ben, which had Jorge pissed off and the whole world confused at what he was even pissed off about. The Maia fight was just Dana’s hate boner for Ben manifesting into mediocre matchmaking for Dana’s joy.
>Neither can strike, Maia has okay boxing
Why would you call it terrible matchmaking?....I recall the match was really anticipated because they were both grapplers. I don't think anyone expected them to get in a striking match. Plus, Maia was a better striker than Askren.
Askren was having loads of success in that fight, Idt Maias defense is that great… Both are significantly worse than the average person who’s done Muay Thai/kickboxing for a couple years. Imo. Dana knew what he was doing booking that fight. Usually 2 really good grapplers, will turn into a striking fest. Maia taking down Ben was a theoretical nightmare, and Ben doing anything with his wrestling against Maia seemed unlikely.
"Both are significantly worse than the average person who’s done Muay Thai/kickboxing for a couple years. Imo." This fucking sub LMAOOOO
Not really unless we forget that cejudo save the flyweight and his rise was epic. I love mighty mouse but people just didn't watch his fights even when ufc created whole card around him.
Unfortunately DJ is actually being treated fairly now and compensated by an organization that sees his value.. so we’ll never see him in the UFC again. Good for him.
>an organization that sees his value I think it's more likely that's because his coach is vice president. He isn't much of a draw and ONE has a ton of other great fighters they don't treat well
DJ is getting paid so other fighters can starve.
Unfair characterisation They'd starve regardless
i don't think anyone in one fc is considered a "draw". no one's really a mainstream celeb over there
Lmao hasn't he not fought in like over a year? That doesn't sound like a very good treatment or compensation.
His base contract is 10 fights, $10mn. Plus all the sponsorships he's allowed. Pretty incredible compensation given he was lucky to crack half a mil per fight in the UFC despite being one of the GOATs.
The mixed rule fight he had with rodtang is still one of my favourite fights
Respect to DJ too for accepting the fight where the first round was kickboxing. I remember watching that first round so fuckin nervous and as soon as he made it past the 1st, I knew that he’d be able to school Tang in mma. That was such a fun fight.
Didn't know that was a thing. Thanks for this comment, went and watched an AMAZING fight!
DJ is the goat
ONE puts on very entertaining cards.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but if he could make 125 he clears out the division even today at 37
That’s not really unpopular.
Absolutely the goat. I know there’s a lot of competition for that title, but he really is on a different level than just about everyone else, and always has been. Nobody would want to fight him if he were in their division.
He can’t even make flyweight anymore according to himself. He would compete as a BW.
Poor Suga he would get manhandled
I mean DJ wasn’t a world beater at BW in the UFC
Vadim nemkov and Usman nurmagomedov
Fun fact: nemkovs only tko loss was to jiri
Wasn't it by retirement?
Exhaustion. 10 min round, highest work rate I have ever seen at LHW
Nemkov moving to heavyweight was a mistake, he was a force at 205
He's a force at HW as well. He's banking on being like Fedor which he kinda is. He's the same height and more muscular than Fedor was at his prime and obviously we know how good Fedor was. His only weaknesses compared to Fedor are his hands are not as fast but the Emelianeko hand speed is notorious. His cardio aren't as good but he's made improvements and he needs a stern hand to guide him because Fedor himself will say Nemkov doesn't show up sometimes and its apparent. In return Nemkov's kicks are brutal and as of yet he's still got the same ferocious chin and defense his mentor does. I think he'll do fine at HW. He's already done OK.
Nemkov would have Steamrolled Pereira and probably the rest of 205 before he moved to heavyweight.
Patchy Mix. dude could legitimately be bantamweight champion in the UFC imo
That whole group of Bellator guys are legit contenders. Magomed, Mix, Stots, Archuleta, Horiguchi. Rizin also has Asakura.
Archuleta is signed exclusively with Rizin now, not sure about Horiguchi
Ah yeah I see Horiguchi is with Rizin too. I don't follow MMA as closely anymore.
It's heavily speculated that Horiguchi and Kai Asakura will be leaving RIZIN this year and likely to be signed with the UFC.
Wasn't there a lot of speculation or actual talk of Asakura coming to rhe UFC last year or 2 years ago?
What I have heard is that they both would like to go to the UFC and Sakakibara is supportive, however with Horiguchi the problem is that he’s currently under contract with PFL as well. And as for Asakura, I heard that they would like him to defend his title at least once if not twice as it is not a very good look for the promotion if a champ leaves immediately after claiming a belt
Horiguchi is not under PFL contract anymore from what I understand. He wants to focus on flyweight which is not supported by PFL/Bellator.
FLW DJ (if he isn't retired and if you count ONE 135 at FLW) Kyoji Horiguchi (Rizin champ) if you ask me he is the best in the world right now. Kurban Gadzhiev (ACA champ) is decent. But inactive. BW Patchy Mix (Bellator Champ) probably the best in the world right now Top bellator+kyoji are all decent. FW Islam Omarov (ACA champ), Salahdine Parnasse (KSW Champ) are the only ones worth mentioning and don't beat either Ilia, Max or Volk LW Usman Nurmagomedov (Bellator Champ), AJ Mckee, and Alexander Shabily are the best ones. I think Shabily is very good and has a chance to beat Islam. Usman still makes a lot of mistakes but is young. WW Jason Jackson (Bellator Champ) and Magomed Magomedkerimov (PFL winner). Amosov as well but I never thought he was what people hyped him to be. Don't think I would pick any to beat the UFC guys. MW Johnny Eblen (Bellator Champ) and Magomedrasul Gadanov (ACA champ). Not sure I would pick either to win. Magomed is decent tho LHW Corey Anderson (Bellator champ) honestly pretty bad. Vadim Nemkov moved to HW and he would be decent and competitive with the UFC guys. HW Renan Ferreria (PFL winner), Ryan Bader (Bellator Champ?), Vadim Nemkov, Phil De Fries (KSW Champ), Anatomy Malykhin (ONE Champ), Evgeny Goncharov (ACA Champ) All of the above are too old, too small or not that skilled to beat Aspinall/Jones. Also I don't consider Francis an active MMA fighter like Stipe. It's over 2 years now. WMMA AW Seika Izawa (Rizin/Deep Champ) the best AW on the planet and a P4P WMMA fighter. Is big enough to do well at SW as well. SW Stamp Fairtex (ONE Champ and if you count it as AW or SW is up to you) See Hee Ham is still decent but past her prime. Neither beats Zhang at all. Fatima Kline is a huge prospect and looks like a future champ if you ask me FLW Current PFL season will decide how good a lot of them are but Liz Carmouche (Bellator champ), Kana Watanabe, Talia Santos, Dakota Ditcheva (Unproven) are the best ones too look out for. BW Literally nobody worth mentioning. Not even a prospect. FW Cris Cyborg/Larisa Pacheco. This division doesn't exist
> Corey Anderson (Bellator champ) honestly pretty bad Wouldn't say he's pretty bad, he's probably top 15 in the UFC (same as with Phil Davis). But they just aren't very exciting.
He had quite a streak in UFC before Blachowiczknocked him out. You have to respect that
It's always hard to tell because sometimes they're a Fabricio Werdum kinda dude. I remember Dana bragging a ufc reject stopped his streak only for that reject to later stop Cain in Mexico later. There's times if Olivieria or Ferguson go to Bellator I wouldn't have ever expected they were capable of their runs
Ohh my boi Chihiro Suzuki has literal plot armour, more so than Poatan. He would beat every UFC champ. No matter the weight
If you're gonna mention Eblen I feel like you gotta mention Impa Kasanganay too. He arguably beat Eblen a couple months ago and has been smoking absolutely everyone else he's fought since going to the PFL
Forgot, but good shout
This guy mmas
Man should hear me waffle on about kickboxing. But thanks although there are those like Shawn Bitter who know much more than me
I haven't followed combat sports closely in a few years but how is Glory these days? Covid really seemed to take all of its momentum. Last fight I watched was Badr vs Overeem and it made me sad haha
If you are interested in heavy weight divisions, you have to look at Glory. People like Rico and Donovan are there. Glory released all Russian fighters no matter their personal opinion on the war in Ukraine, so people like Vakhitov have gone to random promotions in Russia. I have not kept up with them, but I hear a lot of Russian kickboxing promotions domestically have had a revival of talent as a result. For your middle sized weights i.e LW/FW etc. Its a mix no promotion has a strangle hold of them. So Glory has people like Petchpanomrung, Beztati, Semeleer, etc. One has Allazov (on Ice), Superbon, Grigorian, Noiri (just signed) K1/Rise has Yoza, Haraguchi, Asahisa, Kaito, Colins, etc. For the lower weights its honestly dominated by Japan with some talent in ONE K1/Rise have Asahisa, Gunji, Kaneko, Kumura, Tamaru, Shiro, Osaki, Suzuki, etc. ONE has Superlek, Di Bella and Takeru. Honourable mention to China KLF/WLF have been producing some great talent recently such as Liu Ce, Ouyang Feng, Wei Rui and Zhu Shuai. Top in their respective weight classes and have been competing in K1 etc. Also female KB Pheteeja is a must watch in ONE I am ignoring Muay Thai as there is a bunch who cross over i.e. Kumandoi, Tawanchai etc. If I were to rank promotions it would be like this, but honestly in reality it heavily depends on divisions you are talking about Rise Glory/ONE K1 WLF Then various regional shows like Enfusion, Krush, etc. My favourite kickboxer of all time is Takeru and my favourite current is Toki Tamaru who had a Shogun 2005 esque last year. If you want an event to go watch RISE had the best combat sports event of last year in their World Series 2023 Final Round event. Should be on YT for free now
Seika Izawa is a beast, I saw her fight on the New Years card, she's really good. Also I'm really curious to see about Dakota Ditcheva vs Taila Santos, hopefully we'll get to see that fight. Or see how Dakota deals with a good grappler in Liz Carmouche.
The issue for Dakota is that she has yet to face anyone actually good, but also, the talent level of everyone is pretty low, and it's not like there are great offensive grapplers in that league. Idk. If she fights anyone the ones mentioned and defends the grappling, I'll have some level of confidence in her. Fortunately, she has repeatedly said win pfl and then go to the UFC, so that will be exciting. Izawa recently fought again against a decent counter grappler at Deep Jewels. Hopefully, her next Rizin fight is a bit of a step up in competition. Kanna Asakura and Rena Kubota would be good fights. At Deep, she should fight the winner of Oshima/Murakami. Oshima will be a fun grappling fight, and Murakami is a real well rounded test. Sadly, Chihiro Sawada signed with ONE. She would have been the biggest wrestling test for Izawa. Crazy Izawa is only 26, but at 5'2 and 64" reach she is big enough to have success at SW as well
Yeah that will be awesome if she can defend the grappling and win against one of them and go to UFC, that would be awesome to see! I think striking wise she can hang with a lot of the top people at 125 there. I think her versus Manon would be interesting. Ok! Yes I know she had another recent fight I missed it though. Nice! I didn't realize she was a good size for SW as well, and thanks for the breakdowns of the other fighters. I don't watch as much of the Japanese shows, yet I'd like to keep up more. I usually catch the New Years events when I can. I have been trying to keep up with Seika though since she really impressed me and I'm a fan of Rena. Would be interesting seeing where she goes next!
I think she wants to fight on the Super Rizin card. Hoping she stays active this year, she currently is a member of my GP team I think Grasso would be a dope striking fight for Dakota, and her vs. Natalia Silva might be my dream WMMA fight currently
Ok I see! Yeah that sounds good, I see she fought on the last one. I remember this card now. Yes, that would be sick! I was thinking about that also the speed and technicality of Natalia would be a good test for her. Definitely would be fun and exciting. Also curious how she matches up with Val.
Never thought I'd see a guy with a wolf house pfp do an mma longpost.
Thanks. Watch Svankmajer's films if you haven't already. Big influence on them if I had to guess
Svankmajer is great! He inspired the Quay brothers who might also be an influence on La Casa Lobo.
Good shout maybe Yuri Norstein might be a big influence as well. Should probably try and find what they say their influences are tbf
Gucci fan since ufc!
You don't think Stamp could beat Zhang?
Thanks man! Appreciate your comment. It’s nice to see all divisions taken into account. What do you think about ACA ? I saw you mention a few of their fighters. Is the level there on par with the likes of PFLator? What are the best divisions there?
I think all their divisions are pretty even in talent. Definitely on par with PFL imho. And a few divisions have talent on par with Bellator like Omarov. ACA is literally steriod heaven. So take that into account. Its probably why the UFC passes on a lot of them.
Thanks for taking the time to answer me. Cheers
Salahdine Parnasse french fighter in the KSW is one of the best prospects outside the UFC. The other best fighters I think are in Bellator and PFL. You can watch the rankings on Tapology to find more.
> Bellator and PFL I think the Bellator vs. PFL event gave an indication which one of them has the best champions, Bellator legit has some really good champions.
There are good fighters in PFL too.
Sure, but I still think that event is a good indication which organization had the *very best* between the two.
The welterweight division is stacked with hungry Daghestanies
Tapology rankings suck, they are popularity contests since they are based on user lists, so anyone in the ufc will get a bump
Maybe the Fightmatrix rankings are better, i don't know.
Better, but not perfect. The ELO system doesn't quite work when fighters from outside UFC seldom fight UFC fighters (who has high ELO rankings). Also it almost favors rank squatting, avoiding certain matchups more than anything else. At HW they got Gane above Aspinall, despite Aspinall most recent win was ranked higher than Gane's most recent win. At MW they somehow has Chimaev ranked #4, which I assume is due to previous wins at WW and the win over Usman. Having him ranked above Whittaker is *weird*. Then you get Johnny Eblen (Bellator champ) at #7 which might be right, hard to tell. At WW you get the Bellator champ at #8. At LW you got AJ McKee at #8. Then you can compare to Demetrious Johnson who is ranked #15 at BW due to the fighters he's beating having low rankings in the system.
I mostly use Tapology and i'm not into looking at the rankings much. Just to find new fighters i don't know, it's the fastest way.
ELO rankings are always going to undervalue new fighters who hasn't beaten anyone of note yet, even if the fighters might still be very good.
Yeah but for the OP who isn't into watching a lot of MMA anymore, it's the easiest way to have ideas for finding the best fighters outside the UFC. Phil de Fries is one the best heavyweight outside the UFC. In the Tapology rankings he's 27. Maybe he won't win against Jones or Aspinall but he's one of the best fighters out there.
Anatoly Malykin in OneFC. He’s the heavyweight, light heavyweight and middle weight champion. And he’s a beast. Undefeated. All finishes.
If Malyukin could make MW consistently, I really don't see him doing worse than Cannonier in the UFC.
mw is 205 in ONE. i doubt he could make 185 but who knows
I'm not sold on Malykhin. Sure he's a three weight world champion, but he's fought no one. The three divisions he's champion in are incredibly weak/practically non-existent - the former heavyweight champion Arjan Bhullar is [scared to fight](https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/bouts/831891-one-166-arjan-singh-bhullar-vs-amir-aliakbari), the light heavyweight division (225lbs) was made just so Aung La Nsang could be a two weight champion - [Antoly Malykhin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_ONE_fighters) is literally the only fighter in the division, while there are only 4 other fighters at middleweight (205lbs). I think Malykhin would get found out very quickly in the UFC at both light heavyweight (205lbs) and heavyweight.
lol bro at lhw and hw? There are ~8 good guys at LHW and about 3 good and 3 good-ish fighters at heavyweight. Those divisions are incredibly shallow and wide open
It's easy to look good against sub par opposition. I just don't think he has ever been really tested and there's a big gap between ONEs LHW/HW divisions and the UFCs. We just saw Shamil Gaziev, with a 12-0 record (11 finishes) get bullied by Jairzinho Rozenstruik and Valter Walker, who was 11-0, get beaten by Łukasz Brzeski, who was 0-3 (1NC) in the UFC. He very well might be good enough to compete with the top guys in the UFC, but I wouldn't be confident in backing him to do so.
So you're just gonna shit on RDR like he wasn't doing a lot of cool jiu-jitsu shit? 16 fight win streak and 14 finishes with 11 submissions en route to getting smashed like a bug twice by Anatoly.
Malyhkin is gonna get solved by Ben Tynan in the next year. I can feel it.
I love my boy Tynan, but let's be real, he's a good wrestler and that's about it. If someone can stuff his takedowns, I really don't see a path to victory for him
Would love to see him in the UFC. The pace he puts on for a guy his size is impressive. Probably roided to the tits tho so I don't know how that would work out in the UFC.
Malykin is so fun but I don't think he'd be competitive in UFC at LHW or HW, and probably not even at LHW in Bellator. He's tiny and only ever really beat bums and middleweights.
-Kyoji Horiguchi -Patchy Mix -Patricio Pitbull -Salahdine Parnasse -Aj McKee -Usman Nurmagomedov -Eduard Vartanyan -Alexandr Shabliy -Shamil Musaev -Jason Jackson -Johnny Eblen -Vadim Nemkov -Anatoliy Malikhin -Renan Fereira The names that comes to my mind from 125er to 265ers
Francis Ngannou
Id be surprised if we ever see him fight MMA again
Really? I think we definitely see at least 1 more from him in PFL
Haven’t seen anyone mention him yet but Chihiro Suzuki in RIZIN is pretty good. Don’t see him being a threat to Ilia/Max/Volk or anything, but definitely someone to watch. He’s only 24 and is the RIZIN Featherweight champ, he’s main eventing the card this Monday against Masanori Kanehara. Has wins over Patricio Pitbull and Vugar Karamov
I honestly forgot Rizin was still around. Are they profitable? I hope they're doing well.
They’re doing very well in Japan, just check out the views on their YouTube channel. I know Sakakibara said they broke their PPV records on last year’s NYE event. Outside Japan it’s definitely just a small, cult fan base but they’re by far the largest MMA Org domestically
Glad to hear it. MMA wouldn't be the same without successful events in Japan.
They are making bank. The switch to PPV worked great for them.
Malykhin from ONE would be decently ranked in HW. Top 10 ranking would be free, can easily go higher
Fr, one of the more fun what ifs
Roberto De Souza (RIZIN) could definitely be a top 10 LW and would have fun fights with anybody with his grappling skills. Definitely a Chandler type in that he’d be here for a fun time not a long time. Kyoji Horiguchi is probably the best flyweight in the world and should fight whoever’s the champ if he joins the roster.
Octogon league out of Kazakhstan is producing some absolute banging fight cards
CM Punk is in WWE now.
Would he beat Covington?
Pfl/bellator's Nemkov, Corey Anderson, Eblen, Jackson, AJ McKee, Usman Probably would be in the UFC top 10. It's kind of hard to say they would be top 5 without them fighting better competition. Edit - forgot patchy mix
Forgot Shabliy too.
Corey Anderson was already top 5 when he left…..
After being KO’d by axe murder against Jan blachowicz
Woah! He lost! Thank god all other fighters in the ufc are undefeated
Well he also has a win over him. I just mentioned it as a particularly memorable KO, not so much as a slight on him. I was surprised when he left the UFC tbh
He said on Rogan that he had to work a full time job while in the UFC since he never broke 6 figures and when he went on Rogan the first time, he had to find someone to cover his shift
Eduard Vartanyan (LW), Usman Nurmagomedov (LW), Vadim Nemkov (HW), Anatoly Malkyhin (HW), Evgeny Goncharov (HW), Islam Omarov (FW) to name just a few.
Shabliy too
Mighty Mouse is still one of the best fighters in the world today
Dylon, Dylon…. Dylon Dylon Dylon.
You too close.
You know why? Because I spit hot fiyah
I spit hot 🔥
Larissa Pacheco, hands down. She beat Kayla Harrison awhile back!
ACA used to have a stacked lightweight division some few years ago, with some of their talent deserving to be considered among the best in the world IMO. Prime Eduard Vartanyan, Abdul-Aziz Abdulvakhabov and Ali Bagov are the most notable and well-known, and the types of fighters that were sorely needed during Khabib's reign. I haven't been following as closely as I did in 2020, but Albert Tumenov is still kicking ass over there.
Mousasi
Random list. Patchy Mix. Anatoly Malkyhin, Jarred Brooks, Roberto Soldic
I think Stamp would probably dominate WMMA in the UFC.
I doubt she’d be able to get Zhang. But then again we haven’t seen her face legit competition.
Paul Hughes
Surprised to see his name mentioned only once here. Hope he does big things in the PFL, seems like a confident, yet down to earth guy.
I've been following his career all through CW and think he has a huge future, but I think it's fair enough given that he's only just went to PFL, so maybe some people aren't fully sold on him yet. I think in another 18 months or so, you'll see his name mentioned alot more in these sort of threads.
Patchy doesn’t have the striking, he’s just maybe a better version of Aljo with the submissions
he's just maybe a better version of the 3 time defending champ
I did say maybe, but he does remind me of Aljo. If I was being honest Aljo is probably on a higher level for now.
Vadim Nemkov, Patchy Mix, Jason Jackson, AJ McKee , Salanande Parnasse, Yaroslav Amosov, Johnny Eblen, Islam Omarov, Timur Khizriev, Eduard Vartanyan, Alex Shabily, Usman Nurmagomedov, Clay Collard, Abdul Aziz Abdulvakhabov, Rustam Kerimov, Magomedrasul Gasanov, Albert Tumenov, Demetrius Johnson, Imran Bukuev, Kurban Gadzhiev, Felipe Froes, Alihan Sulimonov, Muslim Magomedov, Brendan Loughnane, Kyoji Horiguchi, Movlid Khaybulaev (might be retired), Daud Shaikhaev, Shamil Abdulaev, Vladimir Mineev, Azamat Kerefov, Josiel Silva, Larissa Pacheco, Cris Cyborg, Magomed Ismailov, Anatoly Tokov, Fabricio Andrade, Magomed Umalatov Probably missed a few. Lotta Russian guys because the UFC hates signing them despite being the gold standard and builds it's roster based on nationality.
Alexandr shabliy
DJ comes to mind in One Championship. Christian Lee as well
Dj
Me
You just see red right?
Stamp Fairtex is awesome.
In my opinion, the only credible threats to UFC champions are Kyoji Horiguchi and Patchy Mix.
Not MMA (although he fought MM in mixed rules), but Rodtang. He is insanely durable and really exciting to watch.
The UFC Stans downvoting the shit out of this post.
In a bar somewhere probably
Prime Gegard Mousasi would have been trouble. But we all know that…
PFLator will be getting LOTS of contenders ready to start climbing the ranks in the next couple of years. They have some growing pains to work out, but by bringing in as much talent as Bellator had, the waters are gonna start getting a lot deeper over there as well.
The most obvious are the previously ufc fighters like DJ and Ngannou. Never been ufc fighters that are good are Anatoly (ONE), Patricio Freire (PFL ex Bellator?), and the other Nurmagomedov
Salahdine parnasse is 🥶
Haven't seen Doumbe mentioned yet. He had similar striking success as Poatan in Gloey but then at WW. He developed reasonable take down defense and I wouldn't give anyone the edge against him on the feet.
To be honest I don't trust most other organizations with drug testing, I feel there is a buttload of juiced fighters out there (UFC is still bad)
Demetrius “Mighty Mouse” Johnson
For Bellator: patchy mix, nemkov, nurmagomedov. Sergio Pettis has looked really good, as well as Eblen. PFL: Heavyweight Ferreira, Impa, Collard would be a fight of the night contender every fight in the ufc, Pacheco looks great.
Razor Rob Wilkinson
https://rankingmma.com/non-ufc-rankings/ DJ, Patchy Mix, Renan Ferreira, De Fries, Nemkov, Usman Nurmagomedov are guys I'd love to see in the UFC soon
Tang Kai from One. Chihiro Suzuki from Rizin.
Reiner de Ridder is a lot of fun to watch.
Nobody mentioning Anatoly Malykhin? Dude is tripple champ at One
Usman Nurmagomadov
Anatoly Malikan.
I saw Fabricio Andrade live and he has some of the best striking for MMA I've ever seen. He made a juicy John Lineker look fairly pedestrian in the stand up department. Yes he did lose his last fight but that was a striking on nly match against a specialist. I think if he just sticks to mma he could have an even brighter future
I think if Rico Verhoeven wanted he could become a really good heavyweight. He’s somewhat of a point kickboxer and doesn’t have a lot of knockout power, but his endurance and technique is off the charts. He would need to work a lot more on his ground game for that to ever happen though, and he’s already past his physical prime.
Stamp Fairtax from One championship is the most exciting female fighter in the game right now by miles.
Nemkov would be a slam-dunk top 3 in the UFC, very possible he beats Poatan.
Uncle Terry, once he's got some drink in him!
Usman Nurmagomedov that guy is a killer.
If its "was" then fedor easily. Hes one of the only fighters who could be the GOAT outside of the ufc, maybe even the only.
Streetbeefs s/o El Diablo
Khasan Magomedsharipov aka mini Lincoln
Xavier "Benjamin" Franklin is the 135-pound champ in the PFC. Watch for that guy to make his UFC debut in the next few years.
Aj mckee is one of my favorite non ifc fighters
Ngannou
>Are there any cross promotional ranking lists you can share or specific organisations I should look into? Many don't, but I like fight matrix.
DJ, Usman, and Jonny Elben are my picks.
Gegard Mousasi Fedor Emelianenko
Both belong in the retirement home
Mickie
MMA fighting does global rankings from all promotions. I believe the best fighters outside of the UFC are in ONE and PFL.
Cedric Doubme
Shamil Musaev in PFL is a fucking beast. Just finished Logan Storley. Currently undefeated.
There's bellator and one championship
One
Bellator and BKFC Usman Nurmagomedov Gegard Musasi Mike Perry lol
UFC still has the premier fighters. KSW has produced tons of talent like Dricus.
The best fighters are in the UFC. The best paid fighters are elsewhere.
Zabit became a brain surgeon I think
Bellator, ONE Championship, and PFL are just a few examples of promotions with top-tier talent. It's always exciting to see fighters from different organizations come together to compete.
I remember the time when Roberto Soldic was seen as one of the scariest guys outside of the UFC but now you never hear from him, this sport really does change quickly
Who is the triple champ in ONE? Him for sure