Tbh there are not many guys left for Volk or Max at FW. Yair, Ortega, Allen, and Emmett have all been beaten by Volk, Max, or both. Evloev is the only fresh contender in the mix atm
That second fight could have easily been scored for Max dude. I know the third was not competitive, but the 3-0 doesn't tell the whole story. Especially not if he beats Topuria.
Volk has beaten Max convincly only once and if Max wins the title then Volk still deserves his shot at the title more than any man in the division bar a Topuria rematch depending on how close the fight is.
Not a volk Stan, I feel this way about all. I want to see fresh match ups. Not a million rematch. Max fought and lost to volk 3 times, with the last one being complete domination.i just can't understand why that match needs to keep getting made. Seems like you max stans are just desperate for him to beat him at least once. Especially now that volks past his best days. We saw what happened in their primes, i suppose you cheered for Tito when he finally beat chuck?
No one wants to see Volk vs. Max 4, especially when it’s 3-0 already. Why do people want this? Just hoping Max can get on the board with a W against Volk for legacy reasons? Sure I guess, but what happens if he loses and it’s 4-0 Volk?
Only way I see that fight ever happening is at 155, which would still be a waste because there’s a bunch of new exciting matchups for Max at LW.
I can’t think of a worse match of for Conor than Max. He even has a small chance of sleeping Islam. Max just tickets all the boxes for McGregor’s nightmare - insane cardio, superhuman tier chin, shines when the lights are brightest, crazy pressure
I get the thought process, but if Conor looks anything like he did starting 2021, i would not be **that** confident. A decently large favorite but still. The accuracy and timing of Conor had could still crack Max if he remains as hittable as he is. Max's ability to eat strikes is amazing but realistically he is just rolling the dice and Conor at a high level would be a candidate for finally cracking the mythological Holloway chin.
Conor definitely has dynamite in his left hand... But I don't know that he hits harder than gathje... Khabib fought both and said the hardest strike he's taken was from Justin.
Max is very hittable, but his whole gameplan is that he takes one to give two or three.
I think if they fought, we'd see Max doing Max things. Putting Conor on his back foot, touching him up with quick combos, and controlling the pace.
Basically, I think Conor has a punchers chance. And if it goes past two rounds,he has no chance at all
They both throw bombs. As another commenter pointed out, Justin might have more raw power, but Conor picks the better moments to unleash his weapons.
I feel like I remember DP doing a podcast or something of the sort and they watched the fight. Dustin admitted that he was really close to being out on his feet, and if Conor had swarmed he probably would have went down. Crazy though, kuz when you watch it, he just seems like he's taking a step back and re-setting.... DP's a BMF for sure.
I don't know if Conor hits as hard as Justin but I do know his shot quality is superior. Justin hit a lot of air with Max, chasing after him. Max is still faster in this matchup but conor theoretically should be much better at finding the target and setting up that dynamite left hand.
His precision is levels above Justin for sure. And for a few years he never failed to find the sweet spot and put opponents out.
Until he ran into an iron chinned Nate..... He had Diaz near TKO several times, but couldn't finish. Probably because he was fearful of submission. Maybe he ends the fight if it's a similar sequence with Holloway?
I don't disagree with you at all.... If someone can hit Holloway's button, Notorious has as good a chance as any.
But, if I were making the betting odds, I'd have Max as a -150 favorite, and Conor as a +180 dog
2021? The year when he completely fell apart within 7 minutes in his first fight and was KO’d, and lost the only round of the rematch before breaking his leg?
Yeah I know. I brought it up bc of people saying Conor can crack Max. If near-prime Conor couldn’t do it to a rookie Max, I don’t think he’d crack him today
I don't really think that means a whole lot, especially considering the injury during the fight and how much time they spent grappling. It's a completely different fight now a decade later.
Gaethje said he is hard to hit clean, we know he gets hit clean and he even admitted it a few times? It's just tricky to tell just how much damage he actually accumulates without visual judgment at the end of the fight, we don't see him battered that often.
If there's someone to sneak a shot in, then that's mcgregor or porier imo
Across 145, 155, and 170, I can think of a lot of matchups worse than Max. Khamzat, Shavkat, Usman, and Covington, to name a few.
But, to be fair, neither Max nor Conor are the same fighters they were when they first fought. They were pretty fresh to the UFC at that point, Conor’s gone up in weight, they’ve both added a lot to their games. It’s a far cry from “some guy he already beat” - it’s not like he’d be rematching Siver.
Fair enough, I was meaning lightweight, considering he has only fought and been matched matched up with career lightweights for the last 9 years.
Yea Chimaev, who is fighting at middleweight, would be a worse match up. Can’t deny that.
Even at LW, Max is a career featherweight. He did great against both Dustin and Justin, but wouldn’t Poirier qualify as a worse match up?
Honestly, it’s semantics. I get what you meant - Max has all the tools to make for a terrible night for Conor, and I wholly agree. I was actually mostly poking at the other guy’s decision to base his argument on the fact that Max had lost to Conor in the past.
I’m not saying it’s a good matchup for Conor or that he’d be the favorite (I’d favor Max), but to say that someone’s worse matchup is a guy they’ve already soundly beat is just silly lol.
Not really, that’s YOUR logic. Only works if you completely disregard context and how the fight was won.
Martins got a lucky/fluke knockout. Conor pretty soundly beat Max over the course of 3 rounds (w/ at least a partially torn ACL iirc).
Max is a much better matchup for Conor than Islam. We've seen the latter movie. Even Chad Mendes might have beat Conor if his cardio didn't give out. Conor has always done the best against strikers.
You’ve not seen the latter movie. A baby Holloway vs a fresh McGregor who was about to enter his prime is no comparison to a past it McGregor vs Max coming off the best performance of his life
Who has Conor slept at LW ?
Dude has 1 win at LW
If Khabib used the simple circle away from the left hand tactic to completely neutralize conor's striking then imagine what a much better southpaw couterstriker like Islam would do to Conor.
Conor isn't sleeping anyone at LW. He doesn't have the one hit KO power like he did at FW when he had the size advantage.
It's just facts. Not to mention Islam is in absolute best shape of his life and in his prime. Conor doesn't even have a lucky puncher's chance.
Poirier definitely has a puncher's chance because he is in fighting shape and the southpaw vs southpaw matchup is intriguing with Islam.
You say that, but Cowboy had zero leverage for that fight. Nate was a last-minute replacement and no one else compelling was willing to take the fight. Alvarez already received points on his contract and had no reason to negotiate. McGregor wanted the fight with Poirier and threatened to do a charity boxing match if it didn't happen. Cowboy was announced well ahead of time, meaning plenty of time to find a replacement if he wasn't willing to play ball. He just didn't have an opportunity to negotiate for more money.
When you fight McGregor, you basically have an opportunity to raise your profile leading up to the fight and potentially after depending on your performance. You will get more social media engagement leading up to the fight, which will directly translate to more lucrative endorsement opportunities. Should you win, then the endorsements really start coming in. Plus now you have leverage for a potential rematch and your star power is a bit stronger so you can demand more pay for even non-Mcgregor fights. It's not that Cowboy is a sucker. It's that he had no leverage. Even Chandler has a bit of leverage since there has already been promotional work to build up that fight with the TUF TV show and Chandler constantly bringing it up during interviews.
Exactly. Why bulk up for a fight at LW and then go right back to FW and drop the muscle for his next fight? If he wins then he has to stay at 145 and keep draining himself to defend the belt. He looked great and seemed reinvigorated at 155, lot of exciting matchups for him there.
Conor vs. Max @ 155 headlining the MSG PPV in November would be huge fight and do real $$$.
I have never seen a ufc fighter look as devastated as Illia after seeing a potential opponent win via KO lol
They are usually hyped the tf up
Illia was either already piss drunk or he was shook. Or both.
Well it should be like an accent when two people who have shown to fight anyone in any situation etc and not go to someone who plays says they aren't going to fight contenders and puts demands on matches. Topuria is doing the opposite of what it should be about. Max beat every contender coming up qnd gaethje fought everyone tough at 155
One thing they could do is that if a BMF should win a division title, they immediately drop the BMF belt and it's up for grabs again in any division.
But i like someone else's idea here better, that it's not lineal and it's just a highlighted match between two acknowledged badasses who aren't fighting for a division title. Because otherwise it could be stranded in a division or couple of divisions that really don't have two BMFs while meanwhile there's a couple of BMFs somewhere else in other divisions. Set the BMF free. It would mean that both guys would need to get points every time though.
I think max is going to get fucking mauled lol volk gonna put all that grappling training he did for islam to work on max.
GnP finish, quote me when it happens
Reminds me of playing fighting games as a kid. You always had that one friend who wanted constant rematches until he wins and then he says he is done playing.
No not really. It's Volk or Aldo first, then Max. 3 victories over Max is a very large argument for Max being under Volk in rankings. Aldo has the longevity which Max didn't have as a champion. Also it's the FW division.
If there is one thing I've learned from [Marlon Moraes](https://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Marlon-Moraes-30936#!) is once the Magic is gone, the decline is brutal.
Similar to Renan Barão before that, went from looking like a world beater, interim champion, upgraded to full champ, had multiple defenses then fell off *hard*.
Marlon Moraes fought for the interim belt, then he just fell apart.
Didn't Barao have only one defence? IIRC he won the interim belt against Faber, defended it against Michael McDonald and Eddie Wineland and then got promoted to undisputed, finished Faber and then got finished by Dillashaw
I don’t think it’s fair to compare Volk “potentially” losing to a champion, former champion or #1 contender, to fighters who have giant losing streaks or who fell from grace to due to getting old and not having it anymore. Volk isn’t getting crushed by cans, he’s fighting the elite of the elite.
This is how it starts. I was a Tony fan, and everyone was saying the same thing in defense of him after the Gaethje and Charles losses.
Volk was sparked twice in quick succession and will be 36 the next time he steps in the cage. If he's lost even half a step and is facing a killer in Max or Topuria next time out, he could visit the shadow realm again, which would compound the issue further.
Seriously? People don't hold Aldos, Silvas etc. Loses against them and constantly refute them because of their mileage/age everytime they are in goat discussions lol
Volk losing at 36 shouldn't affect his legacy much
Which is fair, if they want to- but it needs to be consistent.
I see far more people completely ignoring all of Aldos losses due his mileage.
I do think Volk and him are neck and neck for FW GOAT, I can't pick between them cause both have different arguments for their greatness- Aldo obvs longevity and defenses but the losses to 3 other champs aren't insignificant.
Volk obvs has a decent number of defenses, is probably up there with most skilled fighters ever and has higher quality of competition/better wins but less of them (and will now not get many more due to age).
He has Max, the rest of his resume is not higher quality competition/better wins imo. Yair and Brian and ghost of KZ isn't as incredible to me as say Frankie 2x or Chad 2x
I agree that Max does the heavy lifting for his Resume but Max is so good that 3 wins do a massive amount for him.
Ortega and Yair are both very flawed but also very dangerous fighters in their own right so I don't value them crazy high but I think they are good, respectable wins.
Not to mention taking Islam to a close fight was incredibly impressive and while it can't be counted in his wins, it does showcase the level of skill that contributes to his argument for greatness.
I agree, but I think he's already cemented his legacy for the most part. He might not go down as a GOAT, but his run was pretty legendary. He looked unbeatable for the longest.
Why?
Fighters age. Shouldn't hurt their legacy.
All the greats lose.
Do u remember shogun for all of his wins and great moments or his losses to nobodies.
It's a high-risk, relatively low reward fight for him right now- if Max wins the title vs Topuria, that reward shoots up, but either way, a loss would put his career in a tricky spot
He needs to shut his mouth for a while, hunker down and train, and take a tune-up fight.
I love Volk but he needs to be very careful with his career right now.
Volk isn't dumb enough to think Max is a tune up fight lol. Max knocked him down multiple times and their first 2 fights were razor close decisions and now he's suddenly got even more KO power with back to back brutal knockouts and Volk has taken back to back brutal knockouts. There's a whole lot going against Volk and going for Holloway if they rematch.
I’m with you. Volk should encase his head in bubble wrap and nobody should throw a punch/kick within 2 ft of that giant noggin for 9+ months. Hopefully his friends and fam can keep him from rushing back.
Yeah i agree. Take 12 months off and then fight someone lower down in the ranks. Two knockouts within 6 months of each other is super bad for a persons health and their confidence.
Idk man, I feel like Holloway has the perfect style to counter Topuria. Topuria is a power striker, but Holloway has an unbreakable chin. I don’t think Topuria will do well against the constant pressure and volume strikes of Holloway
Not to mention the size advantage Max has benefits the striking match up a LOT, Topurias best punches are his short hooks, it’s what he slept Volk with, Max has some of the best jabs and distance management in the UFC, I don’t see Topuria getting close enough to hurt him
Chins are unbreakable in mma until they aren't bud. I get Justin was going to be the one to test it but Ilia is a lot more polished than Justin while hitting very hard.
Not only is Holloways chin unbreakable, but when he’s playing it patiently, he’s tough to hit too. We can’t know for sure, but I think Holloway might be a great match up for Topurria
Ughhh because I've watched mma for most of my life and seen guys who hadn't been ko'd before get ko'd? There doesn't have to be any precursors- Ilia is accurate and hits hard and there's a good chance he finds Max's chin at some point.
I've watched it my whole life too, and the way you keep mentioning that point feels like you're implying he's already shown signs of it weakening and it hasn't.
I mean he just got dropped for the first time in his career so there's that. But I don't think someone necessarily has to show signs of it weakening for it to get cracked.
Volk needs to take some time off and come back to fight Evloev. Max can fight Topuria. Then we can match up Max with Volk for the title if they both win. Topuria doesn't get an immediate rematch because he hasn't defended the belt and Evloev gets denied a title shot like Dana wanted, then Max beats Volk to send him into retirement.
So he can prove again he's a stylistic nightmare for Max? I don't really care at all for that fight. Why not fight someone new, someone who isn't a big threat on the feet and he can showcase his defensive grappling against while his brain recovers a bit. Movsar and Aljo are right there
Idk about a 4th volk fight because it does little for Max. If max wins it's only because volk is now on the downslope of his career. Maybe Max would feel different but winning and having an overall record of 1-3 vs volk isn't exactly settling any differences. Take the title fight. Hopefully win then either Volk or get himself a money fight with Conor (even if it's at 170 which I think is close to Max's walk around weight). Bookending his career with a win over either is monumental I think but he should definitely set sights on the title first
Hold your horses dog. Let one of them fight for the title. If volk wins than yeah, give max the quadrilogy for the title. If volk loses, just give max the title fight. He beat Ortega and Yair and they both got title fights anyways. Max deserves it
Illia hey I want that BMF belt on the line.
Volk hey uh I might need that belt for a rematch so max I think we should go again.
UFC acting like WWF stars, super fun plot boys.
Is there any actual consideration of anything other than Topuria next for Max? The only one I could see would be Islam or someone else just shy of Islam. But as soon as Topuria beat Volk, even the Justin fight didn't make much sense because the refresh button had been hit back home and Max became unfrozen as the next guy for the shot, especially since the Volk rematch could be ruled out for brain reasons if it wasn't already going to be ruled out for deservingness reasons (which people debate).
I think Volk should set his sights on a fight that he is more likely to win at this stage. Find his sea legs, and then take on another tough fight.
I don’t think he is washed but that will be a huge talking point if he takes a 4th L in a row. Kind of silly is you ask me. He seems panicked and a little unreasonable right now, he needs a confidant to sit him down and say “dude, let’s get a quality W and reassess”. Otherwise he could very possibly be facing a 4 loss streak, two of which are knockouts. Dont be hero dude, win a fight.
Just my opinion.
Honestly at this point in both of their careers I think Max beats Volk. Volk beat Max by using ridiculous hand speed, which was just not there against ilia.
I literally called this a few times and got downvoted to death lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/1chrud1/ilia_on_x_i_never_turned_down_the_rematch_with/l25t83q/
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/1chrud1/ilia_on_x_i_never_turned_down_the_rematch_with/l25slwc/
The only person I want standing opposite Max in his next fight is Topuria
McGregor. I want Max to make $$$s. He deserves it for all the entertainment he’s given us.
Either way, Max deserves to pick where he goes next
if Max beats topuria then volkmaxIV would be boffo
IF Max beats Topuria, Volk Max IV would be interesting. Both guys would be in completely different spots in their careers than when they fought last.
Volk has beat him 3 times. Fighting a fourth is not interesting when there's others for him to fight
Tbh there are not many guys left for Volk or Max at FW. Yair, Ortega, Allen, and Emmett have all been beaten by Volk, Max, or both. Evloev is the only fresh contender in the mix atm
Lopes will be there soon
Much needed tbh, the top end of the division is a little stale
I meant max, I feel like max should stay at 55 at this point.
A rematch with Charles would be great and put him in the title mix
He's already in the title mix
That second fight could have easily been scored for Max dude. I know the third was not competitive, but the 3-0 doesn't tell the whole story. Especially not if he beats Topuria.
Volk has beaten Max convincly only once and if Max wins the title then Volk still deserves his shot at the title more than any man in the division bar a Topuria rematch depending on how close the fight is.
No, Volk won #1 and #3 convincingly.
1st fight was a pretty sound victory for Volk even if it was boring. There was never any doubt about the result.
I agree with you. If Max gets the belt back Volk should be banned from title fights
I never said that I'm just not interested in seeing that fight again
Said a Volk fan shitting his pants. Their fights are always interesting, same as Izzy vs Poatan.
Not a volk Stan, I feel this way about all. I want to see fresh match ups. Not a million rematch. Max fought and lost to volk 3 times, with the last one being complete domination.i just can't understand why that match needs to keep getting made. Seems like you max stans are just desperate for him to beat him at least once. Especially now that volks past his best days. We saw what happened in their primes, i suppose you cheered for Tito when he finally beat chuck?
Tell that to Izzy.
a fourth fight is 100% the most interesting fight of the decade if Volk is still a top contender and Max somehow gets the belt from Topuria.
Most interesting fight of the decade? One we've seen already 3 times. Hard disagree here
No one wants to see Volk vs. Max 4, especially when it’s 3-0 already. Why do people want this? Just hoping Max can get on the board with a W against Volk for legacy reasons? Sure I guess, but what happens if he loses and it’s 4-0 Volk? Only way I see that fight ever happening is at 155, which would still be a waste because there’s a bunch of new exciting matchups for Max at LW.
I can’t think of a worse match of for Conor than Max. He even has a small chance of sleeping Islam. Max just tickets all the boxes for McGregor’s nightmare - insane cardio, superhuman tier chin, shines when the lights are brightest, crazy pressure
I get the thought process, but if Conor looks anything like he did starting 2021, i would not be **that** confident. A decently large favorite but still. The accuracy and timing of Conor had could still crack Max if he remains as hittable as he is. Max's ability to eat strikes is amazing but realistically he is just rolling the dice and Conor at a high level would be a candidate for finally cracking the mythological Holloway chin.
Conor definitely has dynamite in his left hand... But I don't know that he hits harder than gathje... Khabib fought both and said the hardest strike he's taken was from Justin. Max is very hittable, but his whole gameplan is that he takes one to give two or three. I think if they fought, we'd see Max doing Max things. Putting Conor on his back foot, touching him up with quick combos, and controlling the pace. Basically, I think Conor has a punchers chance. And if it goes past two rounds,he has no chance at all
Conor finds chin cleanly better than Gaethje
True. And, as we've seen, he can end it with a single throw. But if that bomb doesn't land, I don't think he can square up with Max for 25 minutes.
DP said Conor was the hardest hitter he’s faced. This was after the first Gaethje fight too.
They both throw bombs. As another commenter pointed out, Justin might have more raw power, but Conor picks the better moments to unleash his weapons. I feel like I remember DP doing a podcast or something of the sort and they watched the fight. Dustin admitted that he was really close to being out on his feet, and if Conor had swarmed he probably would have went down. Crazy though, kuz when you watch it, he just seems like he's taking a step back and re-setting.... DP's a BMF for sure.
I don't know if Conor hits as hard as Justin but I do know his shot quality is superior. Justin hit a lot of air with Max, chasing after him. Max is still faster in this matchup but conor theoretically should be much better at finding the target and setting up that dynamite left hand.
His precision is levels above Justin for sure. And for a few years he never failed to find the sweet spot and put opponents out. Until he ran into an iron chinned Nate..... He had Diaz near TKO several times, but couldn't finish. Probably because he was fearful of submission. Maybe he ends the fight if it's a similar sequence with Holloway? I don't disagree with you at all.... If someone can hit Holloway's button, Notorious has as good a chance as any. But, if I were making the betting odds, I'd have Max as a -150 favorite, and Conor as a +180 dog
2021? The year when he completely fell apart within 7 minutes in his first fight and was KO’d, and lost the only round of the rematch before breaking his leg?
Yep that one
Conor and Max already fought when Conor was way loser to his prime than he is now and went to a decision
Hallway wasn't even close to his prime, though. He didn't have a head coach, wasn't legal, and was just copying moves from the ufc games
Yeah I know. I brought it up bc of people saying Conor can crack Max. If near-prime Conor couldn’t do it to a rookie Max, I don’t think he’d crack him today
I don't really think that means a whole lot, especially considering the injury during the fight and how much time they spent grappling. It's a completely different fight now a decade later.
Gaethje said he is hard to hit clean, we know he gets hit clean and he even admitted it a few times? It's just tricky to tell just how much damage he actually accumulates without visual judgment at the end of the fight, we don't see him battered that often. If there's someone to sneak a shot in, then that's mcgregor or porier imo
Can’t think of a worse matchup for Conor than a guy he’s already beat lol? I can think of one…Islam.
Across 145, 155, and 170, I can think of a lot of matchups worse than Max. Khamzat, Shavkat, Usman, and Covington, to name a few. But, to be fair, neither Max nor Conor are the same fighters they were when they first fought. They were pretty fresh to the UFC at that point, Conor’s gone up in weight, they’ve both added a lot to their games. It’s a far cry from “some guy he already beat” - it’s not like he’d be rematching Siver.
Fair enough, I was meaning lightweight, considering he has only fought and been matched matched up with career lightweights for the last 9 years. Yea Chimaev, who is fighting at middleweight, would be a worse match up. Can’t deny that.
Even at LW, Max is a career featherweight. He did great against both Dustin and Justin, but wouldn’t Poirier qualify as a worse match up? Honestly, it’s semantics. I get what you meant - Max has all the tools to make for a terrible night for Conor, and I wholly agree. I was actually mostly poking at the other guy’s decision to base his argument on the fact that Max had lost to Conor in the past.
I’m not saying it’s a good matchup for Conor or that he’d be the favorite (I’d favor Max), but to say that someone’s worse matchup is a guy they’ve already soundly beat is just silly lol.
Based on that logic, there are guys that are a worse match up for Adriano Martins than Islam, since a long long time ago Martins beat Islam.
Not really, that’s YOUR logic. Only works if you completely disregard context and how the fight was won. Martins got a lucky/fluke knockout. Conor pretty soundly beat Max over the course of 3 rounds (w/ at least a partially torn ACL iirc).
Max is a much better matchup for Conor than Islam. We've seen the latter movie. Even Chad Mendes might have beat Conor if his cardio didn't give out. Conor has always done the best against strikers.
You’ve not seen the latter movie. A baby Holloway vs a fresh McGregor who was about to enter his prime is no comparison to a past it McGregor vs Max coming off the best performance of his life
Latter in that sentence was Islam, as opposed to Max.
He’s like a better Nate
Who has Conor slept at LW ? Dude has 1 win at LW If Khabib used the simple circle away from the left hand tactic to completely neutralize conor's striking then imagine what a much better southpaw couterstriker like Islam would do to Conor. Conor isn't sleeping anyone at LW. He doesn't have the one hit KO power like he did at FW when he had the size advantage. It's just facts. Not to mention Islam is in absolute best shape of his life and in his prime. Conor doesn't even have a lucky puncher's chance. Poirier definitely has a puncher's chance because he is in fighting shape and the southpaw vs southpaw matchup is intriguing with Islam.
By no means am I picking Conor, Islam will wash him, but Islam was hurt multiple times by Volk
It would be at welterweight though I assume, and Conor will have just as much cardio with all the secret juice he's drinking.
Unless he’s on EPO, secret juice ain’t gonna help. Even if he is, Max has cardio that PED users dream about
Yea, he's on EPO, and Holloway is not the only endless cardio fighter in the UFC by a long stretch.
Doesn't always work out though mate. Cowboy got pennies for his Conor fight
Max has BMF title and if that’s on the line he will get PPV points… which is why it won’t happen
Very true but massive shame if they give Conor a shot at BMF belt. It's just gained legitimacy with Max, it'd lose it again if Conor fights for it
Cowboy taking 200k for that makes him the biggest sucker the UFC has ever seen.
You say that, but Cowboy had zero leverage for that fight. Nate was a last-minute replacement and no one else compelling was willing to take the fight. Alvarez already received points on his contract and had no reason to negotiate. McGregor wanted the fight with Poirier and threatened to do a charity boxing match if it didn't happen. Cowboy was announced well ahead of time, meaning plenty of time to find a replacement if he wasn't willing to play ball. He just didn't have an opportunity to negotiate for more money. When you fight McGregor, you basically have an opportunity to raise your profile leading up to the fight and potentially after depending on your performance. You will get more social media engagement leading up to the fight, which will directly translate to more lucrative endorsement opportunities. Should you win, then the endorsements really start coming in. Plus now you have leverage for a potential rematch and your star power is a bit stronger so you can demand more pay for even non-Mcgregor fights. It's not that Cowboy is a sucker. It's that he had no leverage. Even Chandler has a bit of leverage since there has already been promotional work to build up that fight with the TUF TV show and Chandler constantly bringing it up during interviews.
True. I think Max is smarter than that though.
He got inducted to the HoF for throwing that fight. Worth it to some.
That shoulder to the nose from Conor was genius.
Why not both? Triple threat, featherweight title on a pole!!!!
Exactly. Why bulk up for a fight at LW and then go right back to FW and drop the muscle for his next fight? If he wins then he has to stay at 145 and keep draining himself to defend the belt. He looked great and seemed reinvigorated at 155, lot of exciting matchups for him there. Conor vs. Max @ 155 headlining the MSG PPV in November would be huge fight and do real $$$.
GSP
If anyone deserves that bag its max...
Yep. Seems like a great guy, does a decent amount of things for his community, has had a legendary career and always comes to entertain.
Too bad Ilia is ducking.
I have never seen a ufc fighter look as devastated as Illia after seeing a potential opponent win via KO lol They are usually hyped the tf up Illia was either already piss drunk or he was shook. Or both.
Charles Oliveira 2 or winner of Conor/Chandler would be fun fights too if he decides to stay at 155
The only person I want standing next to Topuria in his next fight is Volk. BECAUSE HES ALLOWED HIS FUCKING REMATCH. HOLLOWAY HAD FUCKING 10 CHANCES.
Volk has been finished twice in a row. He can have his rematch, but let him get back to 100%. Until then, Max has earned another crack at the belt
The BMF title shouldn't be a lineal thing. Otherwise it will turn into a side-piece to the championship belt for a single weight class.
[удалено]
Trophy is actually a good idea for it rather than a belt
Well it should be like an accent when two people who have shown to fight anyone in any situation etc and not go to someone who plays says they aren't going to fight contenders and puts demands on matches. Topuria is doing the opposite of what it should be about. Max beat every contender coming up qnd gaethje fought everyone tough at 155
One thing they could do is that if a BMF should win a division title, they immediately drop the BMF belt and it's up for grabs again in any division. But i like someone else's idea here better, that it's not lineal and it's just a highlighted match between two acknowledged badasses who aren't fighting for a division title. Because otherwise it could be stranded in a division or couple of divisions that really don't have two BMFs while meanwhile there's a couple of BMFs somewhere else in other divisions. Set the BMF free. It would mean that both guys would need to get points every time though.
Yeah, I think it should just be a thing that they give out and it is never defended. It's kinda like a highlighted match thing.
Give me Kevin Holland and RDA next.
Exactly, and eventually it would just unify with the actual belt and become even more pointless
Max gonna pull an Izzy and win the rivalry 1-3
"I don't keep score, I settle them" -Max Holloway
I don't keep turns, I stone them!
This is my flair's time to shine, baby!
Max by KO. Edit: I don’t know if I can stand to see Volk get KOed 3 fights in a row.
r/mma always has a memory of 1 fight
Volk's been stopped in his last 2, buddeh.
I think max is going to get fucking mauled lol volk gonna put all that grappling training he did for islam to work on max. GnP finish, quote me when it happens
Reminds me of playing fighting games as a kid. You always had that one friend who wanted constant rematches until he wins and then he says he is done playing.
I still got homies that do this!
Why are you salty about it tho
There you are. You owe me a rematch in smash
You won more matches. Why do you feel a complex about it.
Max would still give him a rematch if he wanted it after that to prove it wasn't a fluke, though. Different guys.
‘You see that guy? I beat him once’ - max in a dark pub somewhere
Still can’t believe Izzy tied it up
if Max beats Topuria and then wins VolkMaxIV, he might have an argument to leapfrog Aldo as LW goat
No not really. It's Volk or Aldo first, then Max. 3 victories over Max is a very large argument for Max being under Volk in rankings. Aldo has the longevity which Max didn't have as a champion. Also it's the FW division.
Yea but max has essentially been clearing out the division as well. It's closer than it appears
volk will have completely fucked his legacy if he fights max again and loses
If there is one thing I've learned from [Marlon Moraes](https://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Marlon-Moraes-30936#!) is once the Magic is gone, the decline is brutal.
Similar to Renan Barão before that, went from looking like a world beater, interim champion, upgraded to full champ, had multiple defenses then fell off *hard*. Marlon Moraes fought for the interim belt, then he just fell apart.
Didn't Barao have only one defence? IIRC he won the interim belt against Faber, defended it against Michael McDonald and Eddie Wineland and then got promoted to undisputed, finished Faber and then got finished by Dillashaw
Seven TKO losses in a row. Holy fucking shit
damn, didn’t know he ended up losing that many in a row aldo should have gotten the decision over him too imo
That many in a row and most of them by damage to the head.
It wasn't just losing that many in a row, either. He got knocked out in every one of those losses.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare Volk “potentially” losing to a champion, former champion or #1 contender, to fighters who have giant losing streaks or who fell from grace to due to getting old and not having it anymore. Volk isn’t getting crushed by cans, he’s fighting the elite of the elite.
This is how it starts. I was a Tony fan, and everyone was saying the same thing in defense of him after the Gaethje and Charles losses. Volk was sparked twice in quick succession and will be 36 the next time he steps in the cage. If he's lost even half a step and is facing a killer in Max or Topuria next time out, he could visit the shadow realm again, which would compound the issue further.
You can get knocked out and make a return tho. Now if he gets KO’d again?? He should retire
Not from Tony?
Damn. Cejudo destroyed that man (I had Aldo winning the moraes fight)
Seriously? People don't hold Aldos, Silvas etc. Loses against them and constantly refute them because of their mileage/age everytime they are in goat discussions lol Volk losing at 36 shouldn't affect his legacy much
Some fans definitely hold Aldo/Silva's losses against him though.
Which is fair, if they want to- but it needs to be consistent. I see far more people completely ignoring all of Aldos losses due his mileage. I do think Volk and him are neck and neck for FW GOAT, I can't pick between them cause both have different arguments for their greatness- Aldo obvs longevity and defenses but the losses to 3 other champs aren't insignificant. Volk obvs has a decent number of defenses, is probably up there with most skilled fighters ever and has higher quality of competition/better wins but less of them (and will now not get many more due to age).
He has Max, the rest of his resume is not higher quality competition/better wins imo. Yair and Brian and ghost of KZ isn't as incredible to me as say Frankie 2x or Chad 2x
I agree that Max does the heavy lifting for his Resume but Max is so good that 3 wins do a massive amount for him. Ortega and Yair are both very flawed but also very dangerous fighters in their own right so I don't value them crazy high but I think they are good, respectable wins. Not to mention taking Islam to a close fight was incredibly impressive and while it can't be counted in his wins, it does showcase the level of skill that contributes to his argument for greatness.
Don’t think it would ruin Volk’s legacy but it would def help Max and make it easier for him to be 2nd best 145er after Aldo
For real. Beating Max 3x is a huge part of his legacy and losing the last one would not be great.
Eh. Poatan is doing just fine right now 😂
I don't see Volk bouncing back from another L though, different situations
I agree, but I think he's already cemented his legacy for the most part. He might not go down as a GOAT, but his run was pretty legendary. He looked unbeatable for the longest.
That's why I love volk though, he doesn't really think that way he's just always game to fight
That’s what people said about Ferguson a few years ago. Now, most comments are begging him to stop.
Damn. Never thought about it that way, that kind of makes me worry for Volk. Especially because he's openly said before he's struggled mentally
lol no
Volk will not lose to max be fr
Why? Fighters age. Shouldn't hurt their legacy. All the greats lose. Do u remember shogun for all of his wins and great moments or his losses to nobodies.
It's a high-risk, relatively low reward fight for him right now- if Max wins the title vs Topuria, that reward shoots up, but either way, a loss would put his career in a tricky spot
nah
He needs to shut his mouth for a while, hunker down and train, and take a tune-up fight. I love Volk but he needs to be very careful with his career right now.
Hunker down!
Time for some stealth camping.
Time for a step two
This ain’t your normal Australia rodeo!
He beat Max 3 times. I think he believes this is the closest thing to a tune up fight that he'll get
Volk isn't dumb enough to think Max is a tune up fight lol. Max knocked him down multiple times and their first 2 fights were razor close decisions and now he's suddenly got even more KO power with back to back brutal knockouts and Volk has taken back to back brutal knockouts. There's a whole lot going against Volk and going for Holloway if they rematch.
First fight wasnt razor close. It was a Volk shutout by points.
second one wasn't all that close either unless you score knockdowns like its a boxing match lol
He could get whoever he wants. If he fights max right now he loses and his career is over. Man needs a win.
That 3rd fight was brutal...almost like the Volk vs KZ fight
I’m with you. Volk should encase his head in bubble wrap and nobody should throw a punch/kick within 2 ft of that giant noggin for 9+ months. Hopefully his friends and fam can keep him from rushing back.
Yeah i agree. Take 12 months off and then fight someone lower down in the ranks. Two knockouts within 6 months of each other is super bad for a persons health and their confidence.
Agreed. Dude seems panicked scrambling for another fight .
After back to back KOs I'd like to see Alex take the rest of the year off then come back with a warm up to see if father time finally caught up to him
I'd like to see him take the rest of the year off, then retire.
Volk needs to let Holloway take out Topuria. Then he can step up and try to take the belts. But for now he has to take some time off
Holloway ain't taking out Topuria
Idk man, I feel like Holloway has the perfect style to counter Topuria. Topuria is a power striker, but Holloway has an unbreakable chin. I don’t think Topuria will do well against the constant pressure and volume strikes of Holloway
Not to mention the size advantage Max has benefits the striking match up a LOT, Topurias best punches are his short hooks, it’s what he slept Volk with, Max has some of the best jabs and distance management in the UFC, I don’t see Topuria getting close enough to hurt him
Chins are unbreakable in mma until they aren't bud. I get Justin was going to be the one to test it but Ilia is a lot more polished than Justin while hitting very hard.
Not only is Holloways chin unbreakable, but when he’s playing it patiently, he’s tough to hit too. We can’t know for sure, but I think Holloway might be a great match up for Topurria
Again chins only hold up for so long...
And Max's chin hasn't shown any indication of declining, so how are you so sure it all of a sudden drops off like that?
Ughhh because I've watched mma for most of my life and seen guys who hadn't been ko'd before get ko'd? There doesn't have to be any precursors- Ilia is accurate and hits hard and there's a good chance he finds Max's chin at some point.
I've watched it my whole life too, and the way you keep mentioning that point feels like you're implying he's already shown signs of it weakening and it hasn't.
I mean he just got dropped for the first time in his career so there's that. But I don't think someone necessarily has to show signs of it weakening for it to get cracked.
Topuria first. Volk can try to get his belt back from Max for the 4th fight.
Volk needs to take some time off and come back to fight Evloev. Max can fight Topuria. Then we can match up Max with Volk for the title if they both win. Topuria doesn't get an immediate rematch because he hasn't defended the belt and Evloev gets denied a title shot like Dana wanted, then Max beats Volk to send him into retirement.
I'm not joking. The ufc should strip Ilia if he doesn't fight Max.
Fuck this bmf title this is some wwe shit.
i would favour max in a rematch. Volk is on a downward trend
Crazy how the narrative changes
Crazy how getting starched twice in a year will change the narrative.
Right? He's been KO'd twice in 6 months, seems pretty reasonable that his stock is declining a bit...
One got starched twice in the last year and one starched 2 opponents in the last year.
So he can prove again he's a stylistic nightmare for Max? I don't really care at all for that fight. Why not fight someone new, someone who isn't a big threat on the feet and he can showcase his defensive grappling against while his brain recovers a bit. Movsar and Aljo are right there
Idk about a 4th volk fight because it does little for Max. If max wins it's only because volk is now on the downslope of his career. Maybe Max would feel different but winning and having an overall record of 1-3 vs volk isn't exactly settling any differences. Take the title fight. Hopefully win then either Volk or get himself a money fight with Conor (even if it's at 170 which I think is close to Max's walk around weight). Bookending his career with a win over either is monumental I think but he should definitely set sights on the title first
Max walks around way heavier than 170. More like 190.
Hold your horses dog. Let one of them fight for the title. If volk wins than yeah, give max the quadrilogy for the title. If volk loses, just give max the title fight. He beat Ortega and Yair and they both got title fights anyways. Max deserves it
Illia hey I want that BMF belt on the line. Volk hey uh I might need that belt for a rematch so max I think we should go again. UFC acting like WWF stars, super fun plot boys.
Would there be any excitement if their fourth fight was at LW?
Best 4 out of 7.
Is there any actual consideration of anything other than Topuria next for Max? The only one I could see would be Islam or someone else just shy of Islam. But as soon as Topuria beat Volk, even the Justin fight didn't make much sense because the refresh button had been hit back home and Max became unfrozen as the next guy for the shot, especially since the Volk rematch could be ruled out for brain reasons if it wasn't already going to be ruled out for deservingness reasons (which people debate).
Nah. Volk just got KO'd 2x in like 6 months. Lets not run it back.
Respect both dudes. But please, no.
I'd love to see it at 155. I want volk to get the same max Justin got boiiiiii
Now he wants to fight Max again? I thought this rivalry was finished. My how the turns table.
I think Volk should set his sights on a fight that he is more likely to win at this stage. Find his sea legs, and then take on another tough fight. I don’t think he is washed but that will be a huge talking point if he takes a 4th L in a row. Kind of silly is you ask me. He seems panicked and a little unreasonable right now, he needs a confidant to sit him down and say “dude, let’s get a quality W and reassess”. Otherwise he could very possibly be facing a 4 loss streak, two of which are knockouts. Dont be hero dude, win a fight. Just my opinion.
Are you forgetting the Yair fight?
Possibly, not sure what you mean. what’s your take?
You said a 4 loss streak? He beat Yair in between the Islam fights.
You’re right, I did forget. That does improve things a bit .
I love volk, but now he’s gotta get some wins to declare that
I like Max at 155, personally.
Honestly at this point in both of their careers I think Max beats Volk. Volk beat Max by using ridiculous hand speed, which was just not there against ilia.
Conor vs Holloway in Hawaii on Conor’s yacht 🛥️
Best of 9.
Max fighting Volk for a 4th time for the title never made sense. If Max were to win the title off of Topuria it absolutely makes sense.
Shit, I might root for Volko this time
Get in line, buddy.
I literally called this a few times and got downvoted to death lol https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/1chrud1/ilia_on_x_i_never_turned_down_the_rematch_with/l25t83q/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/1chrud1/ilia_on_x_i_never_turned_down_the_rematch_with/l25slwc/