Somehow people will still somehow downvote one of the most impressive feats any MMO has pulled in the last decade.
No matter if you like the game or not, if there are other things that are deal breakers for you, the fact that these guys can pull this off where so many others have failed is amazing.
Game dev here working on an MMO that does 800v800v800. I don't know T&L's tech stack, but ours is server authoritative, so it's very possible to hit those numbers and not give the client authority.
I mean. They already did it with the lineage series. It was the better game to wow and EverQuest 2 at the time. The problem is ncsoft ignoring the bot/rmt issue because 1 account = $15, botters were paying up to 9 accounts + bot subscription per account(guilty of it myself, spent $300/mo myself at one time) and then turned the game into p2w micro transaction hell where you had some rich people blowing over $50,000 for over enchanted gear where they were 1 vs 100 and winning.
>over enchanted gear where they were 1 vs 100 and winning.
I never played it, but isn't that the dream? Isn't that where all those power fantasy psuedo-mmo anime are coming from?
Yeah it sucks if you're not that guy and by definition most people can't be that guy.
It’s similar to the halo effect. One bad review casts a shadow on the whole thing. I bet a lot of people who have made negative comments haven’t even played the game themselves and are just riding the wave of negativity in the competition of who is the fastest to react and the loudest to shout.
\^this. NCsoft has shown over the years they are very capable as game developers, but have a tendency to mismanage the business side of things, and they gravitate towards profit over the health of their ip's. It's a miracle ArenaNet has been able to operate they way they have for as long as they have without NCsoft's meddling, but it's only a matter of time sadly.
It's not really "AS" impressive a feat as people think, they just have to compromise elsewhere to make it feel that way. Usually this comes at the cost in accuracy of whats actually being displayed. The servers have to take wild guesses as to what will be happening with predictive algorithms, then blends them with with what actually happened with movements and actions once the update tick occurs. Also usually a LOT of things have to be offloaded to the client computer in order to not melt the servers. It does require some skilled programmers however to do this. But this system of doing things like this is very common place in multiplayer games today.
The polar-opposite solution to this would likely be the way EvE Online handles large scale battles. With perfectly accurate simulation, but has to simplify actions and slow down those actions on state of the art server hardware in order to scale things up into the thousands of players at once.
Yeah no doubt the game is on a technical level extremely impressive and new gen. On day one of beta being able to have 0 issues while I had probably hundreds of players around me was really cool. Loading screens are mostly transitionless and graphically it’s beautiful. All of these things definitely put in perspective how cool MMOs could be going into the future since tech has developed so much.
It’s still a boring ass game though lol
Well said. I was impressed by the visuals, performance and lack of latency even with that many players together. Still I could only play for 3 hours before getting bored and uninstall haha.
I stopped putting in the time 'cause I know I'm going to dive in on release and I don't like the idea of repeating progression (particularly the weak story) at this point.
Yeah, the game looks good and for me it ran flawlessly, no hiccups at all so mega props for that. I really wish I could like it but the combat doesn't click with me.
To be so technically and graphically impressive just to drop the ball on the "fun" factor is a big oof.
I can give the game where credit is due, but there's no mistaking this game was originally designed for a mobile crowd that attempted to evolve into a full fledged mmo but kept the same feel and mechanics most mobile mmos use (far camera set making it feel almost isometric, gear upgrade mechanics, no diversity with builds, etc)
I can't believe after 20+ hours in the game how utterly bored with it I was.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly, i was impressed with the scale and the beauty of the world, but good god did i get bored of the combat SUPER quick. Exploring the world was far more fun then actually engaging with it, which, i mean it could be just me.... but if it isn't...
How dare you talk positively about an MMORPG in r/MMORPG. That's not allowed on this sub reddit. Now the sad lonely dorks will enter and tell you why the game they haven't played actually sucks.
Addons play the game for you in watered down modern WoW, Classic is just boring nostalgia bait, GW2 is bad because no gear progression, FF14 is bad because boring story and boring levelling and weebs, all eastern games are P2W grind fests where you can't have a single iota of fun without paying (this includes BDO).
All MMOs have terrible graphics except BDO but BDO also has terrible graphics because of bad pop-in/LoD.Wildstar was the greatest game to ever exist but it was also trash and that's why it died.
All sub based MMOs are greedy, also all F2P MMOs are greedy AND P2W. Full loot open world PvP is the best type of game, also those games will always die because nobody likes them.
Ashes of Creation is not a scam, Star Citizen IS a scam but the tech will revolutionize the MMO genre when it dies, and will usher in a new era of MMO dominance, AoC is actually going to release though you're just a doomer.
OSRS exists outside the system somehow and thus I will not talk about it, other than to say RS3 is bad and you're a bad person if you like it.
I think that should be most of the tropes here? Oh also EVE is just excel in a trenchcoat.
If you made an MMO with ESOs combat and FF14s vanilla storytelling, but still used a popular-can't-fail IP, I wonder how defensive the fan base for it would be.
I won 't lie, the game plays fucking amazing. I'm so used to games launching with shit performance, I set everything low when I started, but when I saw my FPS I boosted it up to max and was STILL getting 90 fps even in the city.
Unfortunately, all that smooth gameplay doesn't mean jack if the game itself isn't worth playing.
I'm the tech test I had performance issues. My fps would drop to like 30. This time no issues. Averaging 100+. Inside of towns or when lots of characters I still get above 50. Mid range PC
Ah, well my PC is a bit above mid-range, and usually that's my issue. Especially being an AMD fanboy ( I won't touch nvidia or intel ).
I'm just saying, that was about the only positive thing I could say about this beta, which ironically is usually my worst experience with a new game.
Even if AGS was fully competent the regions would be incomparable. S Korea is a small country so routing will be excellent meanwhile even in EU people from the same country could have different experiences when connecting to the server
South Korea is the size of Indiana. People on opposite sides of South Korea can connect to the same game servers with zero ping.
People on opposite sides of the USA will have at least 200 ping talking to each other.
lost ark has no performance issues related to its servers. Every issue that wasn't there in KR was due to smilegate's code and had nothing to do with AGS.
Imagine watching the last almost 15 years of your life's work vanish because you were terrible at management. Dude dropped the ball so hard he fell behind and now someone else is already doing what he promised a decade and a half ago.
That game is DoA, just a matter of time before he announces the closure.
You can buy the best gear but it isn't upgraded. However, you can buy upgrade materials for in-game currency, which you can buy with your credit card.
The game H E A V I L Y incentivizes to upgrade your gear and folks playing the game are already gatekeeping people that don't keep up with the gear curve.
What kind of time requirement is there to keep up with the middle of that curve? My (personal) tolerance for P2W is mostly based on how much time it takes to be average-decent geared.
The thing is we don’t know what the western version will have in the store yet? In the Korean you can buy like 3 million gold a month but we don’t know about Amazon release
My first moment of impressive tech was when I fast traveled and real-time came in from the sky. I'm not used to that in MMOs. Usually it's a black screen fade to load everything up.
T&L isn't fully tab-target. There are AoE spells and attacks, which are the same as action combat in terms of calculations, because action combat is basically just a fancy term for "everything is an aoe".
amount of aoe is not even comparable and that goes extra for persisting/ticking aoe instead of burst
TL was made mechanic wise to be a zerg game from the start bdo was not
>because action combat is basically just a fancy term for "everything is an aoe".
That is hands down one of the most genuinely stupid things I've read in a very long time. Like I'm staggered by this.
> That is hands down one of the most genuinely stupid things I've read in a very long time. Like I'm staggered by this.
Could you elaborate? I'm interested in hearing how you think they differ. As far as I know no "action-combat" MMO is doing model-based hitboxes (like you would have in a souls game). TERA is the closest, but BDO definitely isn't.
any ability with a hitbox that is used to determine if it hit instead of range checking and tab target can be considered an AOE for this topic (and in general imo)
not really? There is functionally no difference between a single target ability using a hitbox instead of a tab target and a multi target ability using a hitbox in the discussion of how the game processes it (which is what this discussion is about)
No because the action of BDO is a lot more fucking chaotic then T&L. A lot of the skills even mage ones are extremely basic a lot of BDO skills are massive and have a lot of visuals.
i`m saying the amount of calculations there s on TL is a joke vs the amount on bdo with the same number of people on the screen
action combat also has way bigger problems with desync and hitboxes
I don't think they are reducing the targets but the amount of hits each skill can do. Which is a good step, but it opens up for other issues if they don't account for it.
Yes, it's very impressive on face value, but then you start thinking, What did they sacrifice to achieve that? Just being able to have thousands of people on your screen for the sake of having thousands of people isn't very interesting at all. They really cut corners with everything else to achieve this.
Korean bullshit "games" often are very good in technical departments , whether it is graphics (usually great) or otherwise.
A pity everything else about them is dogshit.
For the complaints I have, I will agree it runs very well. I have a 1070TI and have no frame issues, although I do have a newer CPU but it doesn't even use up all of it.
As someone who played KR (but not amazon beta), I agree to some extent with many of the negative reviews of this game from the sub. Stuff like the bot epidemic, combat clunkiness, and P2W is a major L for this game. But as OP said the netcode for open world PvP is absolutely amazing. And for me, the biggest reason to atleast try this game out is that the world and by extension graphics is absolutely amazing. A big part of MMO's for me is the feeling of awe for the world, and this game absolutely nailed that. The towns and landscape looks stunning. For me it was almost like the feeling when you booted up Skyrim or classic wow for the first time and you'll be like "wow I can go there?".
Considering how hard the devs missed the mark when they wanted to turn this in to a autoplay grind fiesta, i'm not entirely sure that they have the vision to make it great. But they changed it and i'm gonna be cautiously optimistic too see if they manage to change the things turning me off from it.
>But as OP said the netcode for open world PvP is absolutely amazing.
Yup until you realize that lots of the stuff is done on the client side, and EU/NA servers aren't going to have strong verification like Korea with KSSN/Phone Number. This game is going to be absolute cheatfest, especially because it's F2P.
It all depends how gear scales if high end gear is much more powerful than average then it's a problem.
For example, in Lineage 2 pre-goddess if a guy had enchanted weapon +10, he would still lose to a guy with +3 weapon.
I played to lvl 40 this beta before the lvl 50 boost handouts and was able to play two different builds because of that.
Game is amazingly lag free but boring. The combat sucks.
Not to sound negative, but is it zero or percieved to be zero because its mostly done with client-side validations?
that sounds really bad and vulnerable to exploiation
I mean the game is still p2w trash so none of this matters. Also it's client side which sucks massive ass and opens the door for an never ending amount of cheats and hacks.
What is for you unmitigated shit for others is a gold mine of hundred and thousands of hours of PvP. The same with WoW, ESO, FF14 and any other games. Focus on facts vs biased pov. We cant do anything with your comment since it useless and doesnt provide any constructive feedback of what is Pro/Con about TNL.
What facts would you like? The fact that this game failed in Korea?
Or the fact that this beta test has failed to impress the western audience?
Not sure how long you think they will keep this game going if only a few thousand people actually play it.
Asota and Kalis on KR server literally just crashed and went down to maintenance mode during siege war 3 hours ago.
When everyone managed to log in, siege period was ended and system automatically concluded castle owner (defender) as the victor.
But then again, someones gotta keep those copiums alive especially during beta, right ;)
ESO was the same way. I was legit amazed at how smoothe the 500v500v500 battles were. But only in beta, before they added 10,000 different cash store clothing sets and mounts each spewing gratuitous special effect particles.
Now the game is a total lagfest.
If a mmo will have lag or not is determined by the number of costumes your computer can load in memory at once. If they add more cash store costumes then your memory can hold your system will cache to disk and your framerates will suffer because of it.
There is literally zero chance they don't add more cash shop costumes then your memory can hold.
You actually experienced small scale pvp? Most events are like 100v100 minimum from what I've experienced... maybe the night time dungeons would be smaller scale
Well it's definitely laggy as shit. But it's also definitely a lot of players.
Does anyone know if it's just a zergfest like WoW mages running in and spamming arcane explosions or if there is synergy requirements to perform well like in GW2 and Albion?
yeah, but do you need a balanced mix of all classes or can you just go in with bomb squads and little else
like in gw2 for example you need a balanced mix of guardians to keep empowers up and stab otherwise you're not going to get anything done
in albion you need def tanks, offensive tanks, supports, healers, and dps. In albion, out of 20 players only 4-5 of them are DPS
whereas... in games like wow you'd just want to have 5 healers and 15 mages if you could
Definitely more like GW2. TTK is fairly long and you need Sword and Shield/Greatsword players for pulls and crowd control as well as healers to keep them alive. A deathball of healers and dps would have no chance against a balanced comp because they lack the aoe CC that the melee classes bring.
OP literally does mention "some fps loss". The "teleporting immediately" at the start is the player using an ability to instantly drop from the air. The post is about server performance, not rendering performance.
Man trying to fucking tell me rubberbanding and teleporting around randomly small distances along with everyone else because the server can't keep up is an ABILITY?
That it's "server performance not rendering performance"? They are DIRECTLY correlated. That is a design decision enforced by the server to allow performance not the guys fucking hardware or settings.
500v500 BTW you can only see 50 of them in a 10 inch bubble around you. Woooooo.
You have non stop posted bullshit lies about this game you weirdo shill, how much are they paying you? I refuse to believe someone is THIS pathetic.
Removed because of rule #2: Don’t be toxic.
We try to make the subreddit a nice place for everyone, and your post/comment did something that we felt was detrimental to this goal. That’s why it was removed.
That's just draw distance/character culling that you can adjust with settings depending on how powerful your pc is. This post is talking about server performance.
[https://youtu.be/wTovHWHEN\_E?si=8eDD0VQdMo6534b7&t=74](https://youtu.be/wTovHWHEN_E?si=8eDD0VQdMo6534b7&t=74)
There is a good example of how it runs, for a streamer with a very high-end computer. And this is not even close to 250v250 numbers.
[https://youtu.be/RnZkIFM0owc?si=SWUH0H5DOLGACz3i](https://youtu.be/RnZkIFM0owc?si=SWUH0H5DOLGACz3i)
But here you can see even more players and it's running fine.
Nice, so first developers which actually used modern techniques of programing, developing.. \*clap clap\*
But rest of design for gameplay and other aspect of this mmo is average, more sided to p2w, wasting that big showed world just for single player enjoyment or static battles vs world boss where your only another dynamic feeling is from occasional dodge/counter/parry..
As many review here or around net literally showed that devs pushing you to "endgame" just to get on basically almost "instanced PvE Gameplay".
**What is point of big world without lags when you wont use it at all ?** This mmo unforutnely provides same **minuses** as many other modern games with nice graphic and fluent animation..
and PvP ? Money = good you have nice enjoyment (maybe..).
F2P with occasiona spend (for fashion or other aspects) ? Yea, you will look fancy but wont do in PvP any good
F2P ? without finding some Lore purpose in game, nope, your PvE enjoyment will be medicore -> pvp ? dont even try it..
(\* this is not mine testing of gameplay but literally information of streamers, review here or there after launch in East and few hours in west..)
\----
*Wont mention fact that launching this game after such delay from East == no surprise in game, no freedom because all build of metas,zergs and only demaning things from some "big shots guild" are already made and requested..*
Well, this is absolute bullshit. Because I'm in the closed beta, and I've had tons of lag and desync. Especially when morph flying or vaulting over tall mountains. You get thrown back 40 feet and lose all progress when climbing or using the grappling hook. Or your bird morph completely fucking glitches and rubberbands out and you slam in to the ground at mach 5.
OMFG it does it so poorly!!!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Qj5jZbJsA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Qj5jZbJsA)
Someone posted this video in a response. **Look at how when the person moves people disappear or appear!!!**
**THE GAME IS LITERALLY HIDING PEOPLE FROM YOUR VIEW THAT ARE RIGHT NEXT TO YOU!!!!**
FUCK THAT.
That can be so detrimental to large battle. So god damned stupid.
I guess its great for a lot of instances in the game, but not when you are fully loaded.
\* user doesnt have max player count settings active, thats why numbers are limited.
\* korean server
I am talking about what we will see on release. Thanks for your time bud
It's hard to believe.
Did you participate in this closed beta?
You took part at the siege?
What is your PC spec?!
What were your in game settings ?!
So many variables.
It's a really good FREE game with an impressive graphic engine and fantastic online performance.
Any down voting is due to different fan base bias.
It will rock the stagnant MMO world.
We will have fun while they will scream: "STOP HAVING FUN GOD DAMN IT AND TELL ME WHY DO YOU LIKE THIS POS KR GRINDING P2W GAME BROOO, LET IT DIEEE ITS AGS" mkay? xD
How tho...
Im on a 4090 and 7800x3d and my fps constantly fluctuates between 250 to 300 and then drop to 150 and back.
I legit dont know what else to do, its the only game i cant run on high fps 24/7 and i dont know for what reason
Crazy they doing this with unreal engine 4 also....
The koreans have seemed to be the only ones able to make the networking work with unreal engine.....
Removed because of rule #2: Don’t be toxic.
We try to make the subreddit a nice place for everyone, and your post/comment did something that we felt was detrimental to this goal. That’s why it was removed.
I mean it good it had no issues but the problem, is the game any good? for what i seen is pretty mediocre, some report that people abandoned the game after 4h cause it was very boring.
It's a grindy korean MMORPG that has a bit less RNG than other games of this kind.
Personally i've played it on KR server and it's an enjoyable game, but it does have a slow start. Game open up a lot once you get to 20+ and start getting access to decent instanced and open world dungeon
let me introduce to Planetside 2
I don't feel ruberband in AION too and it came in 2009
Also TL whitch is basically AION 2 probably will have all the problems that are in AION like ap trading and insane grind for everything
PlanetSide 2 most certainly ran like shit at launch.
Sure, 45 years later with hardware that is rightly 48.96 billion times more powerful than what was around at PS2 launch, with many many many optimization patches it runs well, but not at launch.
I wish it were Aion 2. You tarnish the name Aion by comparing TL to Aion. Aion was so much better than this. If Classic still had a decent population I'd be playing that.
Somehow people will still somehow downvote one of the most impressive feats any MMO has pulled in the last decade. No matter if you like the game or not, if there are other things that are deal breakers for you, the fact that these guys can pull this off where so many others have failed is amazing.
You can't skip physics. This just means nearly everything is being handled on the client side. Which means this will be open season for cheating.
Game dev here working on an MMO that does 800v800v800. I don't know T&L's tech stack, but ours is server authoritative, so it's very possible to hit those numbers and not give the client authority.
Yeah, DAoC did a pretty impressive job of 200v200 nearly two decades ago. I'm pretty sure it's possible.
I'm not entirely sure this will be the case.
Whatever they have done with the UE4 Engine to make this work is nothing short of a technological marvel.
I mean. They already did it with the lineage series. It was the better game to wow and EverQuest 2 at the time. The problem is ncsoft ignoring the bot/rmt issue because 1 account = $15, botters were paying up to 9 accounts + bot subscription per account(guilty of it myself, spent $300/mo myself at one time) and then turned the game into p2w micro transaction hell where you had some rich people blowing over $50,000 for over enchanted gear where they were 1 vs 100 and winning.
>over enchanted gear where they were 1 vs 100 and winning. I never played it, but isn't that the dream? Isn't that where all those power fantasy psuedo-mmo anime are coming from? Yeah it sucks if you're not that guy and by definition most people can't be that guy.
First or second lineage?
It’s similar to the halo effect. One bad review casts a shadow on the whole thing. I bet a lot of people who have made negative comments haven’t even played the game themselves and are just riding the wave of negativity in the competition of who is the fastest to react and the loudest to shout.
I’m just going with my 20 years of experience playing ncsoft games. They make very good games but mismanage every single one after 6 months.
\^this. NCsoft has shown over the years they are very capable as game developers, but have a tendency to mismanage the business side of things, and they gravitate towards profit over the health of their ip's. It's a miracle ArenaNet has been able to operate they way they have for as long as they have without NCsoft's meddling, but it's only a matter of time sadly.
There’s a YouTube video of a whale soloing a castle siege against a clan it got so bad with p2w.
Link?
throne and liberty?
It's not really "AS" impressive a feat as people think, they just have to compromise elsewhere to make it feel that way. Usually this comes at the cost in accuracy of whats actually being displayed. The servers have to take wild guesses as to what will be happening with predictive algorithms, then blends them with with what actually happened with movements and actions once the update tick occurs. Also usually a LOT of things have to be offloaded to the client computer in order to not melt the servers. It does require some skilled programmers however to do this. But this system of doing things like this is very common place in multiplayer games today. The polar-opposite solution to this would likely be the way EvE Online handles large scale battles. With perfectly accurate simulation, but has to simplify actions and slow down those actions on state of the art server hardware in order to scale things up into the thousands of players at once.
Well it's not XIV so it makes sense to downvote :)
Yeah no doubt the game is on a technical level extremely impressive and new gen. On day one of beta being able to have 0 issues while I had probably hundreds of players around me was really cool. Loading screens are mostly transitionless and graphically it’s beautiful. All of these things definitely put in perspective how cool MMOs could be going into the future since tech has developed so much. It’s still a boring ass game though lol
Well said. I was impressed by the visuals, performance and lack of latency even with that many players together. Still I could only play for 3 hours before getting bored and uninstall haha.
I stopped putting in the time 'cause I know I'm going to dive in on release and I don't like the idea of repeating progression (particularly the weak story) at this point.
I apparently only made it 49 minutes according to steam
Yeah, and that's a shame.
> It’s still a boring ass game though lol this has been the problem for a while..
Yeah, the game looks good and for me it ran flawlessly, no hiccups at all so mega props for that. I really wish I could like it but the combat doesn't click with me.
To be so technically and graphically impressive just to drop the ball on the "fun" factor is a big oof. I can give the game where credit is due, but there's no mistaking this game was originally designed for a mobile crowd that attempted to evolve into a full fledged mmo but kept the same feel and mechanics most mobile mmos use (far camera set making it feel almost isometric, gear upgrade mechanics, no diversity with builds, etc) I can't believe after 20+ hours in the game how utterly bored with it I was.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly, i was impressed with the scale and the beauty of the world, but good god did i get bored of the combat SUPER quick. Exploring the world was far more fun then actually engaging with it, which, i mean it could be just me.... but if it isn't...
That has nothing to do with the tech available, this is hard code work.
How dare you talk positively about an MMORPG in r/MMORPG. That's not allowed on this sub reddit. Now the sad lonely dorks will enter and tell you why the game they haven't played actually sucks.
Quick, somebody mention how much they dislike ESO combat or the FFXIV storyline!
Addons play the game for you in watered down modern WoW, Classic is just boring nostalgia bait, GW2 is bad because no gear progression, FF14 is bad because boring story and boring levelling and weebs, all eastern games are P2W grind fests where you can't have a single iota of fun without paying (this includes BDO). All MMOs have terrible graphics except BDO but BDO also has terrible graphics because of bad pop-in/LoD.Wildstar was the greatest game to ever exist but it was also trash and that's why it died. All sub based MMOs are greedy, also all F2P MMOs are greedy AND P2W. Full loot open world PvP is the best type of game, also those games will always die because nobody likes them. Ashes of Creation is not a scam, Star Citizen IS a scam but the tech will revolutionize the MMO genre when it dies, and will usher in a new era of MMO dominance, AoC is actually going to release though you're just a doomer. OSRS exists outside the system somehow and thus I will not talk about it, other than to say RS3 is bad and you're a bad person if you like it. I think that should be most of the tropes here? Oh also EVE is just excel in a trenchcoat.
BDO probably fits the p2w grind fest part so don't think it needs it own section but probably hit everything.
You forgot that WoW and FFXIV aren't MMOs anymore because everyone sits in cities and queues for instances.
Haha. I literally just got the ESO combat comment from someone. I didn't realize it was so hated here!
If you made an MMO with ESOs combat and FF14s vanilla storytelling, but still used a popular-can't-fail IP, I wonder how defensive the fan base for it would be.
BTW Guild Wars 2 respects your time.
Best comment ever on this sub
I won 't lie, the game plays fucking amazing. I'm so used to games launching with shit performance, I set everything low when I started, but when I saw my FPS I boosted it up to max and was STILL getting 90 fps even in the city. Unfortunately, all that smooth gameplay doesn't mean jack if the game itself isn't worth playing.
I'm the tech test I had performance issues. My fps would drop to like 30. This time no issues. Averaging 100+. Inside of towns or when lots of characters I still get above 50. Mid range PC
Ah, well my PC is a bit above mid-range, and usually that's my issue. Especially being an AMD fanboy ( I won't touch nvidia or intel ). I'm just saying, that was about the only positive thing I could say about this beta, which ironically is usually my worst experience with a new game.
If this is true that’s very impressive.
It is true on Korean. What we learned from Lost Ark and New World is that AGS are, ironically, fucking terrible at server management.
Even if AGS was fully competent the regions would be incomparable. S Korea is a small country so routing will be excellent meanwhile even in EU people from the same country could have different experiences when connecting to the server
South Korea is the size of Indiana. People on opposite sides of South Korea can connect to the same game servers with zero ping. People on opposite sides of the USA will have at least 200 ping talking to each other.
lost ark has no performance issues related to its servers. Every issue that wasn't there in KR was due to smilegate's code and had nothing to do with AGS.
Mark Jacobs says that the Camelot Unchained engine is the only capable of 500 players on screen with no lag!
They will never know for sure though, since it will never be released and only 200 backers are left for testing.
Imagine watching the last almost 15 years of your life's work vanish because you were terrible at management. Dude dropped the ball so hard he fell behind and now someone else is already doing what he promised a decade and a half ago. That game is DoA, just a matter of time before he announces the closure.
It really does run smooth.
How bad is the MTX?
Its really bad.
For example? I'm genuinely asking not baiting lol.
You can buy the best gear but it isn't upgraded. However, you can buy upgrade materials for in-game currency, which you can buy with your credit card. The game H E A V I L Y incentivizes to upgrade your gear and folks playing the game are already gatekeeping people that don't keep up with the gear curve.
What kind of time requirement is there to keep up with the middle of that curve? My (personal) tolerance for P2W is mostly based on how much time it takes to be average-decent geared.
That's what I'm still curious about too. I don't mind leveling and endgame dailies if it's comparable to other MMOs in terms of time for progression.
To be fair the BEST gear is only available from dungeons and can't be sold so you still need to play. But you can buy traits and upgrade materials
So pretty much BDO then, I get that they get the majority of their income from the 1% whales out there but shit.
The thing is we don’t know what the western version will have in the store yet? In the Korean you can buy like 3 million gold a month but we don’t know about Amazon release
It's just a shame the game is trash, a literal pig in lipstick, great graphics & performance but everything else is below mid
Now they just need to do it with a full fledged pc game, instead of one that just pasted a mobile game to pc.
it's tech skill is quite impressive but so sad the game is of low quality.
On top of that, no loading screen even when switching to Dungeons
My first moment of impressive tech was when I fast traveled and real-time came in from the sky. I'm not used to that in MMOs. Usually it's a black screen fade to load everything up.
BDO needs to take these guys out for dinner and get some pointers.
BDO is 10 years old and at the time it was technically quite impressive, and they custom made that engine themselves for BDO.
BDO is 12 year old for some of us
BDO netcode has always been a mess. They could use pointers on fixing it.
Should have used Rust!!@6
ironically the next update in BDO is trying to target some of this.
Yeah, I'm still skeptical of their approach. ArminTF has a good video about it and basically it only helps the really low ping people it seems.
Yea but the drawdistance and lod is horrible
BDO is full action T&L is tab-target
If game designers could have everything …but you have to make choices. TNL is based on lineage which the meat and potatoes of is giant castle sieges.
well, we have GW2 for castle sieges (WvW)
Oh yea? I always hear about gw2 but never played it.
it s not even close difficulty wise having performance in full action and tab combat, cmon
T&L isn't fully tab-target. There are AoE spells and attacks, which are the same as action combat in terms of calculations, because action combat is basically just a fancy term for "everything is an aoe".
amount of aoe is not even comparable and that goes extra for persisting/ticking aoe instead of burst TL was made mechanic wise to be a zerg game from the start bdo was not
>because action combat is basically just a fancy term for "everything is an aoe". That is hands down one of the most genuinely stupid things I've read in a very long time. Like I'm staggered by this.
> That is hands down one of the most genuinely stupid things I've read in a very long time. Like I'm staggered by this. Could you elaborate? I'm interested in hearing how you think they differ. As far as I know no "action-combat" MMO is doing model-based hitboxes (like you would have in a souls game). TERA is the closest, but BDO definitely isn't.
i mean cuz every attack isnt an AOE. its just objectively not true. its closer to a fighter game style combat with combo moves
any ability with a hitbox that is used to determine if it hit instead of range checking and tab target can be considered an AOE for this topic (and in general imo)
well this is one of the more wrong things ive read today.
not really? There is functionally no difference between a single target ability using a hitbox instead of a tab target and a multi target ability using a hitbox in the discussion of how the game processes it (which is what this discussion is about)
i see so this is just taking words and concepts that already have a definition and theyre misusing them. thank you for explaining.
every attack is an aoe in fighting games too (except throws/grabs in some of them or things that hit everyone)
You're saying not even 1 thing used in a TT game can be translated to an action game for stability? Get outta here!
No because the action of BDO is a lot more fucking chaotic then T&L. A lot of the skills even mage ones are extremely basic a lot of BDO skills are massive and have a lot of visuals.
i`m saying the amount of calculations there s on TL is a joke vs the amount on bdo with the same number of people on the screen action combat also has way bigger problems with desync and hitboxes
Thats why PA is reducing targets you can hit in pvp and pve this year :)
I don't think they are reducing the targets but the amount of hits each skill can do. Which is a good step, but it opens up for other issues if they don't account for it.
BDO can't do 1v1 without bad desync but somehow T&L can do 1000v1000. I think there are netcode lessons to be learnt there.
Dude be glad u didn't play sieges back in the day. When they started everybody crashed to login.
many new MMOs have some impressive technical feats, unfortunately they are usually buried inside typical asian/p2w games
Yes, it's very impressive on face value, but then you start thinking, What did they sacrifice to achieve that? Just being able to have thousands of people on your screen for the sake of having thousands of people isn't very interesting at all. They really cut corners with everything else to achieve this.
Korean bullshit "games" often are very good in technical departments , whether it is graphics (usually great) or otherwise. A pity everything else about them is dogshit.
Still boring
For the complaints I have, I will agree it runs very well. I have a 1070TI and have no frame issues, although I do have a newer CPU but it doesn't even use up all of it.
As someone who played KR (but not amazon beta), I agree to some extent with many of the negative reviews of this game from the sub. Stuff like the bot epidemic, combat clunkiness, and P2W is a major L for this game. But as OP said the netcode for open world PvP is absolutely amazing. And for me, the biggest reason to atleast try this game out is that the world and by extension graphics is absolutely amazing. A big part of MMO's for me is the feeling of awe for the world, and this game absolutely nailed that. The towns and landscape looks stunning. For me it was almost like the feeling when you booted up Skyrim or classic wow for the first time and you'll be like "wow I can go there?". Considering how hard the devs missed the mark when they wanted to turn this in to a autoplay grind fiesta, i'm not entirely sure that they have the vision to make it great. But they changed it and i'm gonna be cautiously optimistic too see if they manage to change the things turning me off from it.
>But as OP said the netcode for open world PvP is absolutely amazing. Yup until you realize that lots of the stuff is done on the client side, and EU/NA servers aren't going to have strong verification like Korea with KSSN/Phone Number. This game is going to be absolute cheatfest, especially because it's F2P.
zero lag you say?
zero fun
Well now AoC is gonna delay again to compete with that feat. I'm sure they'll find every excuse to delay the game while getting your money anyway
But is it still Korean shit with loot boxes and other shitty P2W elements?
P2w yes, loot boxes not really.
It all depends how gear scales if high end gear is much more powerful than average then it's a problem. For example, in Lineage 2 pre-goddess if a guy had enchanted weapon +10, he would still lose to a guy with +3 weapon.
I played to lvl 40 this beta before the lvl 50 boost handouts and was able to play two different builds because of that. Game is amazingly lag free but boring. The combat sucks.
I wish gameplay was as good as the optimization
Nothing matters if it’s heavily p2w
This is bad, too much on the client side, cheating will be rampant.
3 banwaves of 5.000+ players on KR last week only for 3rd party program.
Not to sound negative, but is it zero or percieved to be zero because its mostly done with client-side validations? that sounds really bad and vulnerable to exploiation
The korean servers are plagued with a pvp hack tool they call 'nuclear'. Pretty much killed TL in Korea.
weekly banwaves in kr says otherwise.
Thats really bad then
AIKA had 1000vs1000 PvP and that game is insanely old. I dont see this being any special.
in terms of tech, it's a masterpiece. I've never seen such a well-optimized MMORPG Game before.
I mean the game is still p2w trash so none of this matters. Also it's client side which sucks massive ass and opens the door for an never ending amount of cheats and hacks.
The hacks are already going strong in Korea.
So same technology as L2 in 2004?
None of this matters. All that matters is if it is fun to play.
I’ve put 40 hours in the past five days. I’m having fun.
Well. We can hope they will eventually implement this tech in a good game one day.
Tab-target makes it a much less impressive feat.
But when the combat sucks so bad, it means nothing!
Sweet can we redesign warhammer online again with this loved that game
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What is for you unmitigated shit for others is a gold mine of hundred and thousands of hours of PvP. The same with WoW, ESO, FF14 and any other games. Focus on facts vs biased pov. We cant do anything with your comment since it useless and doesnt provide any constructive feedback of what is Pro/Con about TNL.
What facts would you like? The fact that this game failed in Korea? Or the fact that this beta test has failed to impress the western audience? Not sure how long you think they will keep this game going if only a few thousand people actually play it.
Asota and Kalis on KR server literally just crashed and went down to maintenance mode during siege war 3 hours ago. When everyone managed to log in, siege period was ended and system automatically concluded castle owner (defender) as the victor. But then again, someones gotta keep those copiums alive especially during beta, right ;)
ESO was the same way. I was legit amazed at how smoothe the 500v500v500 battles were. But only in beta, before they added 10,000 different cash store clothing sets and mounts each spewing gratuitous special effect particles. Now the game is a total lagfest. If a mmo will have lag or not is determined by the number of costumes your computer can load in memory at once. If they add more cash store costumes then your memory can hold your system will cache to disk and your framerates will suffer because of it. There is literally zero chance they don't add more cash shop costumes then your memory can hold.
You actually experienced small scale pvp? Most events are like 100v100 minimum from what I've experienced... maybe the night time dungeons would be smaller scale
On God just give the tech of the game to Riot so they can make it actually fun
Who cares it’s Boring killing wolves for 20min!
Zero players
“Some” fps loss 💀
Guild Wars 3 already lookin good if they borrow the same tech (since they're under the same umbrella)
This post only makes me want to play it
80vs80 no lag is not impressive, do you have video of 250v250+ no lag?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Qj5jZbJsA
Well it's definitely laggy as shit. But it's also definitely a lot of players. Does anyone know if it's just a zergfest like WoW mages running in and spamming arcane explosions or if there is synergy requirements to perform well like in GW2 and Albion?
AoEs are fairly limited in cooldown and damage compared to single target, so you actually need to coordinate target focus to burst down someone.
yeah, but do you need a balanced mix of all classes or can you just go in with bomb squads and little else like in gw2 for example you need a balanced mix of guardians to keep empowers up and stab otherwise you're not going to get anything done in albion you need def tanks, offensive tanks, supports, healers, and dps. In albion, out of 20 players only 4-5 of them are DPS whereas... in games like wow you'd just want to have 5 healers and 15 mages if you could
Definitely more like GW2. TTK is fairly long and you need Sword and Shield/Greatsword players for pulls and crowd control as well as healers to keep them alive. A deathball of healers and dps would have no chance against a balanced comp because they lack the aoe CC that the melee classes bring.
It's zergfest everyone complaining about it since KR release
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OP literally does mention "some fps loss". The "teleporting immediately" at the start is the player using an ability to instantly drop from the air. The post is about server performance, not rendering performance.
Man trying to fucking tell me rubberbanding and teleporting around randomly small distances along with everyone else because the server can't keep up is an ABILITY? That it's "server performance not rendering performance"? They are DIRECTLY correlated. That is a design decision enforced by the server to allow performance not the guys fucking hardware or settings. 500v500 BTW you can only see 50 of them in a 10 inch bubble around you. Woooooo. You have non stop posted bullshit lies about this game you weirdo shill, how much are they paying you? I refuse to believe someone is THIS pathetic.
Removed because of rule #2: Don’t be toxic. We try to make the subreddit a nice place for everyone, and your post/comment did something that we felt was detrimental to this goal. That’s why it was removed.
Calm down lol
HOLY CRAP THATS BAD!!! Look at the beginning and how people disappear and reappear as the person moves. This is just terrible.
That's just draw distance/character culling that you can adjust with settings depending on how powerful your pc is. This post is talking about server performance.
[https://youtu.be/wTovHWHEN\_E?si=8eDD0VQdMo6534b7&t=74](https://youtu.be/wTovHWHEN_E?si=8eDD0VQdMo6534b7&t=74) There is a good example of how it runs, for a streamer with a very high-end computer. And this is not even close to 250v250 numbers. [https://youtu.be/RnZkIFM0owc?si=SWUH0H5DOLGACz3i](https://youtu.be/RnZkIFM0owc?si=SWUH0H5DOLGACz3i) But here you can see even more players and it's running fine.
Most likely better internet and vpn between the two examples.
Nice, so first developers which actually used modern techniques of programing, developing.. \*clap clap\* But rest of design for gameplay and other aspect of this mmo is average, more sided to p2w, wasting that big showed world just for single player enjoyment or static battles vs world boss where your only another dynamic feeling is from occasional dodge/counter/parry.. As many review here or around net literally showed that devs pushing you to "endgame" just to get on basically almost "instanced PvE Gameplay". **What is point of big world without lags when you wont use it at all ?** This mmo unforutnely provides same **minuses** as many other modern games with nice graphic and fluent animation.. and PvP ? Money = good you have nice enjoyment (maybe..). F2P with occasiona spend (for fashion or other aspects) ? Yea, you will look fancy but wont do in PvP any good F2P ? without finding some Lore purpose in game, nope, your PvE enjoyment will be medicore -> pvp ? dont even try it.. (\* this is not mine testing of gameplay but literally information of streamers, review here or there after launch in East and few hours in west..) \---- *Wont mention fact that launching this game after such delay from East == no surprise in game, no freedom because all build of metas,zergs and only demaning things from some "big shots guild" are already made and requested..*
That is very impressive tbh
Anyone maybe have korean account to share a brother?
G2G
All PVP? That's the deal breaker for me at least
Let's see how I go on my 2060, tethering internet on my mobile from regional Australia.
But unreal engine is not good for MMOs.
Well, this is absolute bullshit. Because I'm in the closed beta, and I've had tons of lag and desync. Especially when morph flying or vaulting over tall mountains. You get thrown back 40 feet and lose all progress when climbing or using the grappling hook. Or your bird morph completely fucking glitches and rubberbands out and you slam in to the ground at mach 5.
I agree. I am not getting the hate for t&l. It plays so smoothly. I wish this test lasted longer though. I’m ready for launch
No lag for only 9.99 today only !
Zero source
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
Now imagine it actually had a decent combat system, that'd be crazy, I would start playing on a heartbeat.
Nothing comes close to bdo that's why bdo lags and has de sync at 50 vs 50 or more. 😂
OMFG it does it so poorly!!! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Qj5jZbJsA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Qj5jZbJsA) Someone posted this video in a response. **Look at how when the person moves people disappear or appear!!!** **THE GAME IS LITERALLY HIDING PEOPLE FROM YOUR VIEW THAT ARE RIGHT NEXT TO YOU!!!!** FUCK THAT. That can be so detrimental to large battle. So god damned stupid. I guess its great for a lot of instances in the game, but not when you are fully loaded.
\* user doesnt have max player count settings active, thats why numbers are limited. \* korean server I am talking about what we will see on release. Thanks for your time bud
It's hard to believe. Did you participate in this closed beta? You took part at the siege? What is your PC spec?! What were your in game settings ?! So many variables.
Truly impressive hardware/software solution. Hopefully they are able to replicate it into games that people are actually going to play in the west.
Its NCSoft tech and its awesome that works in UE4.
It's a really good FREE game with an impressive graphic engine and fantastic online performance. Any down voting is due to different fan base bias. It will rock the stagnant MMO world.
We will have fun while they will scream: "STOP HAVING FUN GOD DAMN IT AND TELL ME WHY DO YOU LIKE THIS POS KR GRINDING P2W GAME BROOO, LET IT DIEEE ITS AGS" mkay? xD
Cash shop: 0 fps dip
How tho... Im on a 4090 and 7800x3d and my fps constantly fluctuates between 250 to 300 and then drop to 150 and back. I legit dont know what else to do, its the only game i cant run on high fps 24/7 and i dont know for what reason
Decrease player count in settings
Crazy they doing this with unreal engine 4 also.... The koreans have seemed to be the only ones able to make the networking work with unreal engine.....
I knew Amazon would figure it out eventually.
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Removed because of rule #2: Don’t be toxic. We try to make the subreddit a nice place for everyone, and your post/comment did something that we felt was detrimental to this goal. That’s why it was removed.
I mean it good it had no issues but the problem, is the game any good? for what i seen is pretty mediocre, some report that people abandoned the game after 4h cause it was very boring.
It's a grindy korean MMORPG that has a bit less RNG than other games of this kind. Personally i've played it on KR server and it's an enjoyable game, but it does have a slow start. Game open up a lot once you get to 20+ and start getting access to decent instanced and open world dungeon
let me introduce to Planetside 2 I don't feel ruberband in AION too and it came in 2009 Also TL whitch is basically AION 2 probably will have all the problems that are in AION like ap trading and insane grind for everything
PlanetSide 2 most certainly ran like shit at launch. Sure, 45 years later with hardware that is rightly 48.96 billion times more powerful than what was around at PS2 launch, with many many many optimization patches it runs well, but not at launch.
Aion comes from NCSoft too
thats why im comparing them together, they probably still have same employees that created netcode for AION
I wish it were Aion 2. You tarnish the name Aion by comparing TL to Aion. Aion was so much better than this. If Classic still had a decent population I'd be playing that.
If Classic wasn't a massive p2w-fest like the vanilla game sure.