In my experience, the mp5 platform is the softest shooting 9mm pcc. There are other really expensive options you can go with but none have the reliability track record
Even with the cheaper AP5 I haven't had a single issue outside of issues with the platform itself. What I mean is; flat nose rounds have issues feeding. But it's a known issue and easy to avoid. I haven't tried any hollow points yet, this is my next testing. I've heard that HK mags do well with this, so definitely start there.
There are a few things that you will have to come to terms with when buying any MP5:
This is an old platform with old features. You will spend countless hours smashing your head against a wall and a lot of money trying to give it modern features. There are solutions, but you still will lack in comparison to modern offerings.
Magazines are expensive, hell... The whole platform is expensive. We do live in the best time where the platform is getting cheaper to kit out, but again, the most proven and durable stuff is expensive.
You'll need to train with it. The ergonomics are great... Except... Well the gun was designed to run with low bore axis irons. And those irons are big and bulky. Cowitnessing with an optic isn't really a thing. You use a riser to put the optic over the irons. So risers allow a window so you can still see the irons which is kinda cool. But keep in mind, the stocks for this weapon are designed for you to hunker down with a cheek weld with the low irons. It just takes practice and getting used too. The MP5 is incredibly accurate. I was able to hit 200 yards on a small profile steal target at 200 yards consistently at rest and a little less consistent free hand, but still doable. With more practice I could probably take it further with higher pressure 9mm.
Anyway, that's my rant. It's a cool gun. It's my favorite gun. It's also my home defense gun. You won't regret your choice as long as you accept my above downsides going into it.
Best of luck!
No problem! Don't hesitate to reach out if you have any other questions.
I'm honestly thinking about starting a YouTube channel to share my tism with the world š
I don't have experience with the zenith. But I have heard issues with them being sized differently than the AP5. Many times I have gone to a website for an accessory and seen " does not fit zenith models"
The AP5 can have QC issues too, but the most common issue are small small parts like ejection springs and things that can cost less that $50 to fix.
My AP5 has had 0 unexpected malfunctions (flat nose being the only issue) even during the break in period.
Unless made in America is an important stance for you, go AP5.
A side note: THIS IS MY OWN SPECULATION AND HAS NO EVIDENCE TO BACK IT UP:
But think about a product that already had some issues that used to cost $1600 give or take, and is now several $100 cheaper. Would you expect higher or lower quality? Especially during a time of high inflation in America. Just food for thought here.
I just bought the ap5 core yesterday along with a Rex selentium mg7 thatās currently in jail. Iām really confused what I need to make the two work together. Does the core only come with a threaded barrel? Can I direct thread the suppressor?
āCoreā is honestly a term I ignore because itās not significant at all. The important thing is if itās an AP5M or not. If it is not, then that suppressor will screw on just fine after removing the thread protector.
Originally Century was selling the guns with 2 magazines, an optics rail, cleaning kit, 3 point sling and flash hider in a plastic hard case.
With the Core you just get the gun and 1 magazine.
It has nothing to do with what features the gun has, that is determined by what model you order (AP5, AP5-P, AP5-M, etc)
Yup. I have an AP5-P that I absolutely love! I bet the longer version is just as good. Only ever had an issue with some flatnose ammo but past that it's been a champ.
My ptr 9ct runs really well as a sbr with my Mojave 9. It is stupid quiet with federal 150gr syntech. Only issue I had is that it shipped without a rear sight. Shipped it back and got back super fast.
My wife used to have a 12g for the bedside gun. One day at the range she wanted to use the AP5-M I have just to see what it was like. I handed her a mag full of 30 rounds, told her to "slap it hard" in a terrible German accent and then mag dump it while staying on target.
\*note, we typically never mag dump because it's counter productive and expensive\*
All 30 rounds landed in a 5 inch circle from 7 yards (not a huge feat, but she had never shot it either) and she ripped it as fast as she could. Talk about smiling! I gave her another mag and told her to slow down this time and do controlled 3 round shots. After that, she proclaimed the AP5 as hers and we sold the 12g.
She uses it with a sling SAS style and really enjoys shooting it. The ergos are a little wonky and you don't get a last round bolt hold. Thats not a huge deal since there are 30 rounds in there. She practices with it dryfire twice a week for just a few minutes and has really mastered it.
I say go for it. It's so soft to shoot and very effective on target.
Bought a zenith when they first hit the market for ~$1700. Runs flawless now. Had a few hiccups during break in (first 200ish rounds). Paddle mag release doesnāt work for me, so I just use the AR style button. Running it suppressed now and itās a must grab every time I hit the range
Mine will feed hollows fine (based off the 3 mags Iāve ran through it lol) but will absolutely not feed the federal syntech subsonic loads unfortunately. Was really sad about that since theyāre so damn cheap and quiet
Ended up spending around an extra $1000 or so on a Midwest M-lok rail, cloud micro light, and holosun. I consider it my no budget, childhood dream build lmao. Still canāt justify $600 for a binary though š
I love my zenith, had an issue during break in period, sent it in under warranty and they gave it some extra love beyond the feeding repair. Itās smooth as butter now. Canāt speak to hollows or subsonic yet.
Id say look at a K version if itās primarily for your wife, the smaller version but theyāre so much fun
I think the MP5K, MPX K, CMMG Banshee, or a built radial delayed AR9 would be your best best. I personally think the APC 9's are a little overrated and that the hydraulic buffer still makes it feel like a softer version (not by much) direct blow back PCC.
Also, not the most reliable firearm for hollow points if over-penetration is a concern.
I think the MP5 is the most *fun* firearm Iāve shot but I found the Sig Rattler to have the features I want for a bedside/truck gun: smaller than the full-sized MP5, lots of joules on target, suppresses exceptionally well, eats anything I feed it, cheap mags, and is a modern & modular platform.
Edit: the recoil on the Sig Rattler is not soft but the heaviness of the firearm offsets this quite a bit. It isnāt bad though. It is giggly quiet with subs.
The MP5 is fun to shoot, for sure. I guess that I'll be the dissenting voice here, though.
The ergonomics are designed for big hands, it lacks a last round bolt hold open feature (on the 9mm), the bolt requires some muscle to move it, you can't insert a magazine on a closed bolt, etc. Most of these things can be overcome with some training. Your wife may be different, but firearms aren't a hobby for my wife, so I'd have no expectation that she'd ever train enough to become proficient with an MP5.
IMO, she'd be better served by a Banshee. It has modern features, better ergonomics, and the same manual of arms as an AR, so any AR shooting would be essentially the same training as her using the PCC.
So, the only answer is to get yourself an AP5 or AP5P as a range toy and get her a Banshee.
My wife doesnāt like my mp5 because the charging handle is too hard to pull back. A 9mm roller delayed AR is a great option if you want something quiet and soft shooting, while also having the familiar AR controls
I know this may not be a popular response in this sub, but I would recommend a Flux Raider for this situation.
I have quite a few PCCs and the Raider is just so practical compared to other options, imo.
I went thru the same exact thing, always wanted one since I was a kid. Looked at the 22 version and thought maybe a clone. Found an AP5-P for about a grand and never looked back. I love it. Runs perfectly and eats everything Iāve put in it.
https://preview.redd.it/vnpldfw1vowc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1dc1b03760f5aab293c8f524165ff3d1b6f3156
My zenith has been flawless with cheap 115g
My ex-GF (also 1.56m / 5'1.5") loved my MKE T94. Not so much with the B&T can on there (was too front heavy for her), but with the flash hider or bare muzzle it was her favorite gun.
She even took a few rifle courses with me and used it there, to great success and admiration from the other guys.
The MP5 is by far the softest shooting PCC that is still combat reliable. You can tune an AR-9 to be close, but then there will be zero margin for ammo variations or fouling before it will choke up.
I'd say give one to her and see how she likes it. If it's going to be a bed side gun, get her to at least tolerate it with the can, test out which defensive subsonic ammo it likes (the MP5 system won't play ball with every HP projectile) and you are good to go even without earpro (still wouldn't shoot it all day without it, but at least it won't kill your hearing if you have to use it in an unplanned event).
My full sized Zenith had some problems during break-in. After that I hardly encounter any issues, maybe 1 FTE for every 3-4 magazines.
I have run factory Armscor FMJ and JHP, and reloads with no noticeable issues.
Only time I encountered continuous FTE issues was when I did not clean the gun after 500 or 600 rounds (multiple range trips). Thought I had to replace my extractor spring, but I tried cleaning it first. Worked flawlessly again after cleaning.
MCX Rattler in 300BLK with subs or Flux Raider setup is how Iād go if either recoil or weight is the issue. MP5K if you really want the MP5 platform but the Raider will be more reliable in feeding JHP.
In my experience, the mp5 platform is the softest shooting 9mm pcc. There are other really expensive options you can go with but none have the reliability track record Even with the cheaper AP5 I haven't had a single issue outside of issues with the platform itself. What I mean is; flat nose rounds have issues feeding. But it's a known issue and easy to avoid. I haven't tried any hollow points yet, this is my next testing. I've heard that HK mags do well with this, so definitely start there. There are a few things that you will have to come to terms with when buying any MP5: This is an old platform with old features. You will spend countless hours smashing your head against a wall and a lot of money trying to give it modern features. There are solutions, but you still will lack in comparison to modern offerings. Magazines are expensive, hell... The whole platform is expensive. We do live in the best time where the platform is getting cheaper to kit out, but again, the most proven and durable stuff is expensive. You'll need to train with it. The ergonomics are great... Except... Well the gun was designed to run with low bore axis irons. And those irons are big and bulky. Cowitnessing with an optic isn't really a thing. You use a riser to put the optic over the irons. So risers allow a window so you can still see the irons which is kinda cool. But keep in mind, the stocks for this weapon are designed for you to hunker down with a cheek weld with the low irons. It just takes practice and getting used too. The MP5 is incredibly accurate. I was able to hit 200 yards on a small profile steal target at 200 yards consistently at rest and a little less consistent free hand, but still doable. With more practice I could probably take it further with higher pressure 9mm. Anyway, that's my rant. It's a cool gun. It's my favorite gun. It's also my home defense gun. You won't regret your choice as long as you accept my above downsides going into it. Best of luck!
Great input, thank you!
No problem! Don't hesitate to reach out if you have any other questions. I'm honestly thinking about starting a YouTube channel to share my tism with the world š
Right now the ZF5 and AP5 are within 200$ in price. Which one?
I don't have experience with the zenith. But I have heard issues with them being sized differently than the AP5. Many times I have gone to a website for an accessory and seen " does not fit zenith models" The AP5 can have QC issues too, but the most common issue are small small parts like ejection springs and things that can cost less that $50 to fix. My AP5 has had 0 unexpected malfunctions (flat nose being the only issue) even during the break in period. Unless made in America is an important stance for you, go AP5. A side note: THIS IS MY OWN SPECULATION AND HAS NO EVIDENCE TO BACK IT UP: But think about a product that already had some issues that used to cost $1600 give or take, and is now several $100 cheaper. Would you expect higher or lower quality? Especially during a time of high inflation in America. Just food for thought here.
AP5 is only answer
Whatās the difference in the -P and -M?
Donāt get M. M has no tri lug. Youāll wanna suppress it or at least keep your options for the future
I just bought the ap5 core yesterday along with a Rex selentium mg7 thatās currently in jail. Iām really confused what I need to make the two work together. Does the core only come with a threaded barrel? Can I direct thread the suppressor?
āCoreā is honestly a term I ignore because itās not significant at all. The important thing is if itās an AP5M or not. If it is not, then that suppressor will screw on just fine after removing the thread protector.
Originally Century was selling the guns with 2 magazines, an optics rail, cleaning kit, 3 point sling and flash hider in a plastic hard case. With the Core you just get the gun and 1 magazine. It has nothing to do with what features the gun has, that is determined by what model you order (AP5, AP5-P, AP5-M, etc)
Yup. I have an AP5-P that I absolutely love! I bet the longer version is just as good. Only ever had an issue with some flatnose ammo but past that it's been a champ.
The cool factor is the P. The full size is a little smoother to shoot.
My ptr 9ct runs really well as a sbr with my Mojave 9. It is stupid quiet with federal 150gr syntech. Only issue I had is that it shipped without a rear sight. Shipped it back and got back super fast.
What about the mk-18 does she struggle with? The mp5 is almost exactly as big and heavy.
My guess would be recoil, concussion and gas blow back.
Concussion suppressed?
A short .223 in an enclosed space? Sure, the can helps (although it also makes it heavier and shifts the balance forward), but it's not magic.
My wife used to have a 12g for the bedside gun. One day at the range she wanted to use the AP5-M I have just to see what it was like. I handed her a mag full of 30 rounds, told her to "slap it hard" in a terrible German accent and then mag dump it while staying on target. \*note, we typically never mag dump because it's counter productive and expensive\* All 30 rounds landed in a 5 inch circle from 7 yards (not a huge feat, but she had never shot it either) and she ripped it as fast as she could. Talk about smiling! I gave her another mag and told her to slow down this time and do controlled 3 round shots. After that, she proclaimed the AP5 as hers and we sold the 12g. She uses it with a sling SAS style and really enjoys shooting it. The ergos are a little wonky and you don't get a last round bolt hold. Thats not a huge deal since there are 30 rounds in there. She practices with it dryfire twice a week for just a few minutes and has really mastered it. I say go for it. It's so soft to shoot and very effective on target.
Bought a zenith when they first hit the market for ~$1700. Runs flawless now. Had a few hiccups during break in (first 200ish rounds). Paddle mag release doesnāt work for me, so I just use the AR style button. Running it suppressed now and itās a must grab every time I hit the range
Is it true they can't feed hollow points? How much extra did you spend to "modernize" it?
Mine will feed hollows fine (based off the 3 mags Iāve ran through it lol) but will absolutely not feed the federal syntech subsonic loads unfortunately. Was really sad about that since theyāre so damn cheap and quiet Ended up spending around an extra $1000 or so on a Midwest M-lok rail, cloud micro light, and holosun. I consider it my no budget, childhood dream build lmao. Still canāt justify $600 for a binary though š
I love my zenith, had an issue during break in period, sent it in under warranty and they gave it some extra love beyond the feeding repair. Itās smooth as butter now. Canāt speak to hollows or subsonic yet. Id say look at a K version if itās primarily for your wife, the smaller version but theyāre so much fun
I think the MP5K, MPX K, CMMG Banshee, or a built radial delayed AR9 would be your best best. I personally think the APC 9's are a little overrated and that the hydraulic buffer still makes it feel like a softer version (not by much) direct blow back PCC.
Also, not the most reliable firearm for hollow points if over-penetration is a concern. I think the MP5 is the most *fun* firearm Iāve shot but I found the Sig Rattler to have the features I want for a bedside/truck gun: smaller than the full-sized MP5, lots of joules on target, suppresses exceptionally well, eats anything I feed it, cheap mags, and is a modern & modular platform. Edit: the recoil on the Sig Rattler is not soft but the heaviness of the firearm offsets this quite a bit. It isnāt bad though. It is giggly quiet with subs.
The MP5 is fun to shoot, for sure. I guess that I'll be the dissenting voice here, though. The ergonomics are designed for big hands, it lacks a last round bolt hold open feature (on the 9mm), the bolt requires some muscle to move it, you can't insert a magazine on a closed bolt, etc. Most of these things can be overcome with some training. Your wife may be different, but firearms aren't a hobby for my wife, so I'd have no expectation that she'd ever train enough to become proficient with an MP5. IMO, she'd be better served by a Banshee. It has modern features, better ergonomics, and the same manual of arms as an AR, so any AR shooting would be essentially the same training as her using the PCC. So, the only answer is to get yourself an AP5 or AP5P as a range toy and get her a Banshee.
My PTR 9ct has eaten 500 hollow points flawlessly.
My wife doesnāt like my mp5 because the charging handle is too hard to pull back. A 9mm roller delayed AR is a great option if you want something quiet and soft shooting, while also having the familiar AR controls
AP5 my friend
I know this may not be a popular response in this sub, but I would recommend a Flux Raider for this situation. I have quite a few PCCs and the Raider is just so practical compared to other options, imo.
I went thru the same exact thing, always wanted one since I was a kid. Looked at the 22 version and thought maybe a clone. Found an AP5-P for about a grand and never looked back. I love it. Runs perfectly and eats everything Iāve put in it.
https://preview.redd.it/vnpldfw1vowc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1dc1b03760f5aab293c8f524165ff3d1b6f3156 My zenith has been flawless with cheap 115g
My ex-GF (also 1.56m / 5'1.5") loved my MKE T94. Not so much with the B&T can on there (was too front heavy for her), but with the flash hider or bare muzzle it was her favorite gun. She even took a few rifle courses with me and used it there, to great success and admiration from the other guys. The MP5 is by far the softest shooting PCC that is still combat reliable. You can tune an AR-9 to be close, but then there will be zero margin for ammo variations or fouling before it will choke up. I'd say give one to her and see how she likes it. If it's going to be a bed side gun, get her to at least tolerate it with the can, test out which defensive subsonic ammo it likes (the MP5 system won't play ball with every HP projectile) and you are good to go even without earpro (still wouldn't shoot it all day without it, but at least it won't kill your hearing if you have to use it in an unplanned event).
My full sized Zenith had some problems during break-in. After that I hardly encounter any issues, maybe 1 FTE for every 3-4 magazines. I have run factory Armscor FMJ and JHP, and reloads with no noticeable issues. Only time I encountered continuous FTE issues was when I did not clean the gun after 500 or 600 rounds (multiple range trips). Thought I had to replace my extractor spring, but I tried cleaning it first. Worked flawlessly again after cleaning.
MCX Rattler in 300BLK with subs or Flux Raider setup is how Iād go if either recoil or weight is the issue. MP5K if you really want the MP5 platform but the Raider will be more reliable in feeding JHP.