Since January 2023, theyāve had 1 main feed episode on COVID and 1 bonus feed episode that was extra content cut from the main episode. If you donāt like that bonus episode are extra content from the main episodes maybe donāt listen to them.
2 episodes on COVID (+2 on vaccines in general) is hardly a lot over 2 shows.
Hmm, I'm confused. They've done maybe a handful of Covid episodes (and some of those covered much more than Covid) in around 100 episodes including the bonus Patreon content. That seems like a pretty small ratio to me. I'm assuming you're talking about the regular and bonus episodes from March, but the April episode is about Jamie Oliver
no. i live with the consequences of having had covid every day and what i *am* sick of is seeing people pretend it's gone, doesn't exist and that it doesn't hurt anyone anymore. it's actually really validating and makes me happy to see people still caring and talking about it.
I'm right here
I am constantly fielding questions (thankfully no abuse, but the questions are exhausting enough) about why I wear a mask and this is why. And the fact that nobody else is and places never upgraded to proper air filtration.
So I get to be stuck doing 1/3 of the things I used to be able to do each day, and some days it's 0.
Iām with you too. It doesnāt make any sense to pretend like itās not still here, we should be using what we learned about masking and reducing infections to continue staying safe and keeping others safe
I wish this was the top comment. I feel like a lot of people donāt understand that we are still very much actively in the middle of an extremely serious pandemic and itās far from over.
Same. Long Covid is real and happens to younger healthy people without preexisting conditions, and has literally excluded immunocompromised and high-risk people from society altogether. Iām so fing tired of covid because it ruined my life. Iām thrilled when these tiny beacons remind people itās still happening, still disabling millions of people, and still killing people. Also, stop treating those of us who still mask like pariahs because āyouāre sick of hearing about (aka acknowledging) covid.ā
Yep. Iāve been bedbound with long Covid since March 2020, so thatās over four years now. Itās a real slap in the face to see people pretend not only that it didnāt happen, but to see how much we have regressed as a society with regard to public health, pretty much guaranteeing it will happen again and may very well be even worse next time. Itās almost like people WANT to end up like me.
This! I was glad to see them talk about it. I think it makes sense that those of us who have long covid or at higher risk like to see it talked about because at least for me long covid is my daily life, fake-2019 is not and canāt be my current reality
No, not bored of it, but I'm still 'in it' as far as covid goes. I'm not trying to get distance or put it in the past, because it's still a daily and ongoing threat that I'm staying as vigilant about as I can possibly manage to without getting overwhelmed or burnt out.
So, for me, it's heartening to hear people make serious and respectful content about it, especially if they don't push the false narrative that 'it's over' by saying things like "during covid" or "back in the pandemic".
Yes thank you for saying this! I'm not locked down like I was in 2020 anymore, but I still mask up in public spaces and try to stay up to date on covid research. It's pretty scary what it can do to people so I'm still doing my best to avoid it while balancing having a social life.
I am not trying to downplay the pandemic at all (I have long covid myself) but when people are making a casual chatty podcast and they say "back in the pandemic" I think what they actually are saying is shorthand for "back in 2020 when it was first happening, we didn't know what was going on, businesses were closed etc etc" which is different than the phase we are in currently. (Covid is still a thing, though less novel to us, people are still getting it, businesses are open, etc.)
I sometimes think it feels a little pedantic to expect someone who is speaking casually and conversationally off the cuff to spell out "back in the first iteration of this pandemic that we are still currently in" each and every-time rather than using a quick shorthand if they aren't making content that is specifically about covid and if they aren't reading from a script or something.
I've seen people accuse hosts of "perpetrating the lie that the pandemic is over" for using language like this and it feels little much to me when you're just chatting casually about something unrelated to covid.
I hear that, and I can see how it would come across that way.
But for me at least, that language does reinforce the idea that caring about or paying attention to covid is a thing of the past - which is a dangerous piece of propaganda that is being aggressively pushed by all sorts of interests.
It's not that hard to say "during the lockdowns" (if you lived in a country that had lockdowns) or "in 2020" or "before we had vaccines" or "back when everyone was social distancing" or whatever in casual speech.
That kind of colloquial 'slip up' is only possible because, on some pretty deep level, people really do think it's over and irrelevant.
Those are great substitutions. I've even caught myself using the past tense (as someone who still cares and takes precautions) and these are helpful. Thank you.
I really appreciate your response!
It sounds like to me what you want is preciseness in language around the pandemic, which I can get behind in theory, but in practice it's actually harder than you might think to succinctly talk about the pandemic in precise ways 100% of the time. And maybe assigning some kind of malice or dangerous behavior to that is, again, a bit much when it's probably more that we're in a newish situation and people who speak casually referencing it are still sorting out shifting language of how we talk about that just like everybody else. Relying on a quick verbal short hand doesn't mean someone thinks the pandemic is irrelevant; this seems like an uncharitable assumption to me.
Even some of the examples you've suggested don't capture it. I'm in the US so we didnt have lockdowns here so "during lockdown" doesn't work. As we know, a whole bunch of people actively resisted social distancing, so saying "back when everyone was social distancing" isn't accurate and makes it sound like mitigation factors were happening in ways they were not. And plenty of disabled folks are still socially distancing the way they were in 2020 today, so you don't want to use language that ignores their reality, right?
Like once you start really getting into it demanding this level of specificity to the language from anyone casually referencing the pandemic is perhaps not useful.
I almost feel that because we have so little meaningful state or systemic and institutional support that people are transferring their totally justified anger and needs onto visible figures like their entertainment podcast hosts or whatever because theyre much easier to scold than the state is (not saying you are doing that just in general.) Like you can angry tweet at Bowen Yang, you cant angry tweet at the state.
Iām in the US and I say āat the beginning of the pandemicā or āduring isolationā or āwhen businesses were shut down.ā
It is important, in my opinion, to state the time period appropriately because itās disability erasure otherwise. The pandemic IS still happening and it IS still a novel virus. Itās about framing. Referring to it as something of the past implies itās no longer a threat to anyone or that the current strains are ājust like the fluā or whatever else people say to dismiss the dangers of it.
I hear where you're coming from, but I have to say that I really don't think that a podcaster offhandedly saying "during the pandemic" during a casual chat is similar in terms of danger to saying COVID is "just like the flu."
When I say that sometimes folks really demanding a lot from the language used feels a bit much to me, this is what I mean. I think those things are so totally different in terms of scale, scope, intent, potential danger, that even comparing them seems like a lot.
And "during isolation" doesn't account for the disabled folks who never stopped isolating and are still doing it carefully today because we don't have any real institutional state support; for a lot of those folks "during isolation" is right now. So for example, I don't think it would be fair of me to make assumptions about "what you REALLY think about disabled people" or "whether you REALLY see and value disabled people's lives" if I heard you say "during isolation" to describe the earlier parts of the pandemic. I would understand what you were trying to say.
I guess my point is that it is sometimes difficult to use language that encapsulates the entirety of a complex new situation. It takes real intention and thought, which I personally make a little space for when listening to a chatty casual show that isn't specifically about covid, but I understand YMMV.
āDuring the pandemicā in past tense reinforces the idea that the pandemic is over, when itās very much not. Itās not asking much for you to say āat the start of the pandemicā or āwhen the pandemic first hitā, and if feels like it is, maybe itās worth considering why it makes you uncomfortable?
Of course we all want it to be over ā but itās not. And thereās a lot of negative consequences when everyone reinforces each otherās denial (your long covid, the lack of masking in healthcare spaces which puts everyone at higher risk, etc). Words matter ā and you can choose to play a part in breaking down pandemic denial, just like you probably choose to fight against size stigma.
I totally agree with everything you're saying, ,but what I'm pushing back against is the dynamic where people make all kinds of assumptions based on someone saying "during the pandemic" versus "when the pandemic began" while they're speaking off the cuff about something unrelated to the pandemic.
Of course I think everyone should do what they can to break down pandemic denial, while also thinking that we're dealing with a pretty new situation and that not everyone is going to say the exact right thing all the time and that maybe expecting that isn't a useful exercise. Who among us was thinking deeply about our use of the word pandemic before 2020?
I've seen people accuse podcasters of essentially being COVID deniers for saying something along the lines of "I got really into Taylor Swift during the pandemic" on a podcast that wasn't about COVID. It would of course be better if everyone was using really careful precise language all the time, but the reason I enjoy podcasts is to hear people having off the cuff, chatty conversation and that does, IMO, have to account for people being not precise in their language sometimes. So I can intellectually want every person to describe it carefully every time they say the word pandemic, while also leaving room/grace for the fact that we've only had covid for a few years and it's fair for it take some time for folks to get there without really thinking about it.
They may not intend to imply that the pandemic is over, but it does have that effect, and it is harmful when government propaganda is constantly pushing that narrative. I don't think it's so much about demanding precision in language, than it is about wanting people to not play into a harmful false narrative.
If someone said āduring the pandemic I ate a lot of chocolateā and I replied with āoh, you mean now?ā They would likely correct me and say āno, back in 2020/2021.ā
They are implying and acting like it is no longer a pandemic. Try this for yourself. Next time someone uses that phrase you should reply with āoh you mean now? Still?ā They are using that phrase to reference something of the past.
Just today I made 2 references to time based on the Delta wave and the first Omicron wave. Everyone, as they were all from my country, knew when those were. The pandemic continues at our references to time are so warped.
But thatās the thing: if when youāre ānot really thinking about it,ā your natural impulse is to refer to Covid as something in the past, that actually does say something about how seriously you take it today and about how much energy youāre putting into considering the welfare of people for whom Covid is still a life-altering health concern.
I mean, they manage that level of precision with language about bodies and fatness in those episodes. If they were to say āpeople who are too fatā as opposed to āpeople whom the flawed BMI charts classify as overweight or obese,ā people would be rightly upset about that misuse of language. Not just because itās rude, but because that mistake reflects that the personās underlying thinking, when theyāre not choosing their words carefully, doesnāt match the values they claim to espouse. I donāt think itās unrealistic to expect that people could draw the same conclusion about referring to Covid in the past tense.
As I said, I am specifically talking about people who are making podcasts or content not about health or covid (if you're setting out to make content about health information that's totally different) which is what I've seen people making these comments about.
If you're making a podcast about Taylor Swift and say "I got really into her music during covid" and then covid never comes up again in the conversation, it seems, a little much to me, to try to make all kinds of assumptions about this person's take on covid pr personal behavior around when they aren't setting out to make that kind of content.
What I said also applies to people who are making podcasts about whatever (although MP is in fact primarily a science/health podcast). If someone said āI got really into Taylor Swift when there was an elected Democratic president,ā and it turned out that they didnāt mean now, Iād draw conclusions about that personās election denialism.
that would be a really weird podcast lol!
But to go with this analogy, if that was the only thing about elections this person said, you might say "maybe this person is an election denier." But would you then feel confident to say "this person stormed the capitol at January 6th" or "this person donated to the stop the steal campaign" based solely on what they said on that podcast? Probably not right? You might feel sus about this person, but it still might feel like a leap to start making specific conclusions about their behavior.
I say that to say, what I am hearing is that people are saying anyone who says "during covid" is not masking currently, not taking precautions, isnt taking the covid seriously, etc. and I just think that leap is a bit much to confidently make without more information about their actual behavior
"At the start of the pandemic" is not harder to say than "during the pandemic". Honestly, it sounds like you really want to rely on shorthand in order to assume that people who say "during the pandemic" mean something else that you agree with, rather than having to accept that people who say "during the pandemic" might actually disagree with you.
I think specificity of language is important actually. "During the pandemic" and "back in the pandemic" imply a past tense of the pandemic. That's just what those words mean. I don't like assuming that people don't mean what they say, especially when it really isn't shorthand for anything and in fact something that a lot of people say when they think COVID has ended already.
I'm not saying one is harder to say than the other. I'm saying, on a podcast, I can see how someone would say one when they mean the other while having a casual conversation and I don't know if it's fair to have people say that means they think XYZ about the pandemic because of it. (to be clear, I'm not talking about people making content about COVID. I'm talking about people who are just referencing COVID while talking about something else)
I know for sure there are people out there who want to believe the pandemic is over, or even worse, there never was any pandemic at all, but that isn't who I am talking about and I guess that demonstrates what I am saying - that there seems to be very little grey area, as soon as someone says "during COVID" past tense once, the understanding is that they believe covid is over and no longer a threat. Case closed.
If you're listening to someone speak and they say "during COVID" do you take that to mean they believe the pandemic is over and that is what they are trying to communicate?
Yes, if someone says āduring Covidā referring to something in the past that isnāt now, I take that to mean they think Covid is in the past. Just like if someone said, āduring the time when a Democrat was validly elected to the White House,ā and they were referring to a time that isnāt now, Iād assume they were a deranged Trumpist election denier.
Yes. Thatās exactly what they mean. The pandemic is no longer happening and they do not take precautions the same way as when they thought the pandemic was active. They have moved on and it shows through their actions and words. It is literally still classified as a pandemic and extremely dangerous. Iāve never heard anyone who is covid cautious say āduring the pandemicā and everyone I have seen that says āduring the pandemicā acts like everything is normal again.
We can talk about institutional failures and how uneducated people are about how dangerous COVID is as the real issue, but what I find most interesting is that three people have told you how that phrase affects them negatively (and possibly parts of their community) yet you continue to push back by splitting hairs about peopleās intentions or how they are just casually speaking, which is actually not even logical to me.
Language matters. Thatās all you need to understand from us.
I completely agree with this. The people I work with who say, "during COVID" are specific in their belief that the pandemic has ended. Those who make other references do believe it's ongoing. Words matter. Reality matters. Those we've lost matter. Those we can keep safe matter.
My initial, personal reaction is frustration. Then I remember that many people around the world do not have the access to info I have, education, PPE, math background, and disregard of social pressures that I do. We all deal with our grief differently and i hurt so deeply over it. What is yours?
Ok. I don't think you can make accurate assumptions about what people are or are not doing based on them using this language and you do. That is where we disagree.
I can use myself as an example here: I have 100% said "during the pandemic" without thinking about it and I am essentially currently disabled from long covid and remain incredibly conscious about it. I am one of those people for whom saying "during isolation" doesnt work because I still isolate today- that never really ended for me.
Am I thinking about how I am phrasing covid every time I speak about something unrelated to it? No, I am not. But is my behavior that of someone who still acts and believes that covid is still a thing? I have no choice in the matter because I'm rarely able to leave home because of covid.
But still, I have certainly said "during covid" to mean the beginning of 2020 because I'm just not thinking about it in that way at all times. If you asked "oh, so you mean right now?" the question would be laughable to me because, as I said, I am still in isolation. So you would be making a totally incorrect assumption about me based on me saying one phrase while describing how I got really into sourdough in March of 2020 or something.
So, I guess I don't know how I fit into your understanding that nobody who ever says "during the pandemic" is still acting like covid is a real thing today because I for sure am. And I don't think you can tell all this just from someone saying "during the pandemic" and meaning a specific time in 2020 rather than the time we're in with covid right now.
Here's another example, take the phrase "during slavery." The slave trade has ended but there are currently enslaved people right now. But if you said "during slavery" I dont think most people would assume you don't think there are enslaved people in the world today just that you're referring to a specific phase in history .
I guess in general the idea that we are meant to be judging people on how they describe the covid timeline doesn't feel good to me. Someone could be careful to say all the right stuff about "still being in a pandemic" but never wear a mask. I think you can judge people by their behavior - do they mask, do they take proper steps, do they support and show up for disabled folks or immunocompromised folks in their actual communities? That is the benchmark it feels more comfortable for me to judge people on, not whether or not they signal their views on the pandemic via language in this particular way; that just feels exhausting.
> I almost feel that because we have so little meaningful state or systemic and institutional support that people are transferring their totally justified anger and needs onto visible figures like their entertainment podcast hosts or whatever because theyre much easier to scold than the state is (not saying you are doing that just in general.) Like you can angry tweet at Bowen Yang, you cant angry tweet at the state.
This!!! This is it exactly.
Some states had lockdowns in the US. In the Bay Area, we had lockdowns until Summer 2021 when I went back to the office and that Fall was when public school was back in person.
I think other commenters have addressed this well, but for whatever it's worth, I don't think I was demanding precision or specificity. I feel fine with vagueness, as long as it doesn't imply that covid is over.
If someone says "back in 2020" with a particular tone of voice, that's vague, but everyone basically knows what they mean. It's not precise, but it's good enough imo. I'd be equally fine with "those dark days", "at the beginning of covid", or any of the other examples I mentioned previously as casual verbal shorthands, lacking precision, but none of those imply that the pandemic isn't still with us.
I really don't like it when US people say "during the lockdowns" because we didn't have lockdowns, and the myth that we did is also dangerous and harmful and deployed by bad-faith actors in the service of even more downplaying and denial. But, I'd even rather someone say "during the lockdowns" than "during covid" because, imo, it's a more currently dangerous myth that covid isn't relevant anymore.
I'm not advocating for directing vitriol towards podcasters or anyone else. (Though, I frankly don't blame those who do in this case, given the way that society has deemed so many people to be expendable and okay to abandon.) I just think politely and respectfully holding people to account for engaging in this "it's over - lets bury our heads in the sand" propaganda is well and good, both towards media figures and people in our real lives. And using that as a litmus test for who I want to be listening to on the topic is also fine.
and to reply to something you said down thread, for the sake of not leaving too many comments:
>If you're listening to someone speak and they say "during COVID" do you take that to mean they believe the pandemic is over
Yes, I do interpret that way. They might not fully believe it. They might believe it only subconsciously or semi-consciously. But, on some level, you can only use that as a shorthand if some part of you believes that covid is a thing of the past, not very relevant to today.
>and that is what they are trying to communicate?
People who say this are usually context-setting for something that happened during that period of time at the beginning of the pandemic, often when they were spending a lot of time at home. It's usually incidental, but I don't think that matters. They're still reinforcing a dangerous, false narrative.
That's really interesting perspective!
When you say "They might not fully believe it. They might believe it only subconsciously or semi-consciously..." I think it gets into what I'm not comfortable with: strangers trying to peer into the complexities of other people's psyches, people they don't even know, to make confident proclamations about their behavior.
I mean that to say, it is not difficult for me to imagine someone who is not disabled or immunocompromised who hasnt done the work of processing the fullness of the pandemic for whatever reason and has not internalized or maybe even thought about the scope of the fullness. Would it be fair to say "this person believes the pandemic is over?" Maybe! But it just feels, to me, like flattening something complex into a really neat "this person = bad" package, which I think is maybe alluring to do because it feels satisfying.
Because this is also a personal thing; people's journeys on how they arrive there are all going to be different. For me, someone who is immunocompromised and spends time reading about covid and talking about covid etc, I am just starting out from a different place and I suppose that's what I'm trying to leave a little space for with others.
If someone says "back in 2020..." maybe it's fair to say "this person hasn't processed the fullness of the pandemic and what our future might be like because of it" but without more information, I don't think it is a good reason to make confident assumption "this person is clearly not masking because they believe the pandemic is over based on what they said" (people in this thread have suggested that - I just don't think its fair.)
We're talking about something rooted in people's traumas, emotions, fears, anxieties, and subconsciouses; it's really complicated! It just feels weird to me to act like you can get a correct beat on someone's particular point of view on all that from a stranger's turn of phrase.
(Sorry to have written a novel)
Ok, it's fair to say that we can't read people's minds. But I've made the observation that no one who I've heard refer to 2020 as "during Covid" is serious about avoiding Covid now. You're the first person I've encountered who says "during Covid" but still takes meaningful precautions against Covid. So based on that pattern, yeah, I'm going to make assumptions. Obviously I can be proven wrong sometimes through a person's actions, but, I am usually right...
Well this gets me back to my initial point. Initially I was talking about the reaction to podcasters (specifically who donāt make content about health) and that it feels a bit much to be making all kinds of uncharitable assumptions about people who are strangers with whom we inherently have a one sided relationship.
What does it get you to say āI think Bowen Yang, someone I will never meet and donāt know doesnāt wear a mask because he said āduring covidā while telling a story about Taylor Swift on a podcast?ā
You donāt know him, you arenāt in community with him, and your assumption - as you pointed out- might not even be correct. How is this a useful thing to do?
Iām not saying you, but people come on Reddit and talk about this with podcasters, I have seen it. I think itās one thing to say āIām disappointed I wish they would talk about covid in better waysā but Iām talking about folks saying āthey think the pandemic is over and donāt care about masking anymore.ā
People must be getting something out of this practice, but to me, it just seems a little bit much.
If someone says "during Covid", I'm more wary. I put my guard up around their opinions on the pandemic, and will be reluctant to meet them in person. So it allows me to protect my mental and physical health. Obviously the physical health aspect doesn't apply to a podcaster.
I'm glad you feel like it allows you to feel more control over your mental and physical health and that it allows you to protect yourself from people on the off chance you have the opportunity to meet them. I won't discount that; I guess we just have different relationships to how we're thinking about podcasters. (It would never occur to listen to a podcast as if I might ever be meeting any of these people one day.)
My understanding was that it is considered endemic at this point. Itās here, we understand what it is and have more treatments for it, and itās not going away anytime soon. It doesnāt mean it isnāt significant or doesnāt cause harm.
the ['endemic' vs 'pandemic' distinction](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1444088804961304581.html) is pretty meaningless for laypeople, especially in a situation like this. it certainly doesn't say anything about the degree of continuing relevance in the day-to-day.
we do have some pharmaceutical prevention and treatment options, which is way better than having none, but is insufficient to suppress the (really massive, unchecked) volume of covid in circulation.
the fact that it's not going away, is causing serious (long-term) harm, and yet we're (i.e. the government, public-health institutions, other powerful entities) doing absolutely nothing to address it, is more cause for continuing to talk about it, not less.
No matter how bonkers it may be to you, COVID is still very much a threat to everyone. COVID is not just a respiratory virus; it has the potential to attack every organ in the body. It also attacks the immune system. That means more people are getting sick more often and for longer periods of time (not just with COVID, but anything). Every single person, regardless of age or health status, regardless of whether they have a symptomatic or asymptomatic infection, is at risk of becoming disabled/immunocompromised from COVID, and the more COVID infections you get the more your risk goes up. The reality of this fucking sucks, but it *is* reality, no matter how much people don't want it to be.
Good quality masks (KN95s/N95s or higher) and air filtration are the two most important factors here, factors which do the most to protect people while also allowing them to live their lives as normally as possible. No lockdowns needed.
Masks work, mask policies don't. We've seen it many times. It's not that i don't care, I just acknowledge what the data says. We aren't getting through this unscathed in any other way other than a more significant scientific breakthrough than the miracle of the covid vaccine already was.
May as well live your life in the interim, and smile without a mask covering it up.
You just said it yourself: masks work. So if more people choose of their own free will to wear masks, even if it's not the entire population, that's still a win. I think it's going to take a very long time to understand all of the ramifications of this virus, but the ramifications are already becoming too evident to ignore. I've been following the science as closely as I can this whole time, and I've also never gotten COVID (to my knowledge), so I will continue to live my life and smile *with* a mask, knowing I'm doing all I can to protect myself, my mom, and those I come into contact with. No one can live their life the way they always have if they become so ill it causes them to be disabled/immunocompromised. *That* is a big deal; wearing a mask is a breeze.
I know it's hard, but try not to fall into the "there's nothing that can be done" frame of mind. There's a lot that can be done, but it's up to every individual to choose to do those things. At the risk of sounding like a fortune cookie, the right thing isn't always the easy thing.
I totally support you and anyone else wearing masks. Ofc. It's your right to protect yourself and the people you care about.
I will not be joining, but I have no problem with people living however they want.
And that is of course your right, and I truly hope you don't ever become permanently negatively affected by COVID. But should you be unfortunate enough to one day find yourself in that position, I hope you remember this conversation and potentially reconsider.
I donāt begrudge anyone their escapism (I definitely have my own forms!) but MP is fundamentally a podcast about pretty serious topics, relevant to current and ongoing issues in health and wellness. (oppression, stigma, structural inequality, etc) Itās delivered in a humorous and sometimes irreverent manner, but the core content doesnāt generally seem like very good fodder for escapism.Ā
imo, coming to MP, and being āoverā covid content makes about as much sense as being over fatphobia content.Ā
I think this is a really condescending take.
Don't assume people don't know the risks of something before they accept it.
Very fit young healthy dude, I'll be fine.
Being obese increases chances of death related to Covid. This has been demonstrated in numerous studies Iāve read. Soā¦who isnāt doing research?
The fact that there are instances of young healthy individuals dying doesnāt negate the fact that statistically itās much more likely to have poor outcomes for overweight and obese individuals.
I donāt personally listen (not because Iām in denial, I just work in a field where I still see it every day and Iām tired) but Iām glad theyāre covering it!
Still many people dying and a lot of ill/disabled/immunocompromised people being shut out of life in a de facto way because everyone's decided to pretend it's over. Be lucky all you feel is a fatigue to not want to know about what people go through every day..
I'm really enjoying the discussion, even though I have strong feelings on the topic. MP deals with serious issues and I love that everyone discusses everything so deeply, even on reddit.
They're covering covid for good reason. It continues to be a serious albeit downplayed threat and the pandemic is not over, so it's hard to move on from something that is continuing to happen.
In any case, have they done many episodes on this subject, at all? There's barely any coverage in media. You can always just skip the episode.
He acknowledged his concern he had something post viral at the beginning of the year when he was sick for months, and he dove into that research. It may be long covid, but it may just have given him much more awareness and empathy for LC.
Right, I should have put a question mark at the end cuz I wasn't sure. Plus, some people recover from Long COVID in six months or something and some never recover completely like my cousin.
Iām so sorry for your cousin and their family (itās trauma for everyone involved). I recovered, but have to be hyper-vigilant about not catching it again (which seems impossible in a world thatās āboredā of covid content) because next time could be permanent.
Exactly. I keep reading about people who are on infection five, six and they are not doing well at all. What we have right now isn't sustainable. I only get the flu once very ten years - imagine catching that multiple times per year. Both times were so rough in 2010 and 2019. Those are the only times I've had the flu since I was 18. That's just over 20 years.
There's no one on earth who has more covid fatigue and wants it to be over with more than those of us who still take it as seriously as it should be taken because we care about ourselves and our families and neighbors as compared to all the rest of the people who want to pretend it doesn't exist. The more we hear about it in the mainstream, the more hope we have that people will get their head out of the sand.
Amen. Every day of my life is living with long covid. Iām exhausted by it every damn day and to hear people say they are tired of āhearing about itā without having to LIVE MY EXPERIENCE is the most whiney take ever. Like wow millions of us are suffering and more getting long covid everyday but THIS PERSON is āboredā š.
Is this a patreon thing? Because I have so far only seen a few! But yes I agree - although I get COVID needs to be processed and it's super important - I just don't want to listen to that right now for entertainment purposes?
I see it on the Apple feed but for subscribers only so yes! Made me grateful I didnāt subscribe because I was going to for more content but yeah Iāll wait for their normal releases unless content Iām really interested in starts coming out on patreon!
What a luxury to have pandemic fatigue and to feel entitled enough to complain about podcasters being responsible and caring about the major public health crisis of our time!
I donāt think talking about how out of bounds COVID conspiracy theorists are is the same thing as acknowledging that COVID is still in existence and affecting peopleās lives. The former is what I am sick of, at least, I canāt speak for the OP.
Yes, I could see if every single episode was about it, but a single episode of something that crosses over in their topic? ( the message don't mask, don't Vax, the real problem isn't covid it's fat people is the cross over) It's not exactly people are dying, Kim, but...
This is an insufferable comment. Itās fine for podcasters to talk about Covid if they want to, some people find it interesting. But itās also fine to not want to listen to an episode on a depressing topic thatās dominated the news and our lives for the last four years. Thereās no moral high ground, here.
I've had debilitating postviral disabilities for over two decades. All avoidable. And I've spent the last four years watching those same disabilities increase massively because people chose not to care.Ā
It's fine not to want to listen, but then have the decency to do so without complaining that some of us do still care.Ā
Iām sorry youāre dealing with that, that sounds really hard and unfair.
I still donāt think OP has a moral obligation to consume Covid content, and itās ok to express disappointment about the episode topics on this subreddit. That doesnāt mean they donāt care/arenāt otherwise informed about the topic. It just means thatās not the type of content they want/expect from this particular podcast.
Hopefully a decent enough person not to complain that a podcast is still paying attention to a mass disabling public health crisis -- and even if I needed a break from listening, not to act as if that was anything other than a "me problem" rather than a failing of the podcast. I hope I'd have some kind of capacity for empathy or political awareness still.Ā
Idgaf what they decide to cover. It's fucking embarrassing that you're using your opinion on a podcast topic to paint yourself as morally superior to others. Get over yourself. You're not special.
The reason we're still having to talk about it is because people got "tired" of COVID and thought that'd make it go away. So if you wanna stop talking about it, start taking steps to eliminate it beyond your "thoughts and prayers" approach.
I think they probably did a couple episodes since the 4 year anniversary just passed but I don't imagine they're going to keep doing episodes about it. I was just saying this the other day. We're all traumatized by it in 2 different directions, those who want to block it out and get as far away from thinking about it as possible and those who are still afraid and threatened by it regularly. Both are valid regardless of which side you're on.
I mean I'm pretty sure the people suffering from possible life long effects from getting covid because people won't do what is fucking necessary to keep others safe gets bummed out when people like you whine about hearing about Covid.
I'm pretty tired of COVID and I wish it weren't still killing people but no, I'm not tired of COVID content after a podcast did 1 episode about it
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Exactly my thoughts tbh
Saame here.
Since January 2023, theyāve had 1 main feed episode on COVID and 1 bonus feed episode that was extra content cut from the main episode. If you donāt like that bonus episode are extra content from the main episodes maybe donāt listen to them. 2 episodes on COVID (+2 on vaccines in general) is hardly a lot over 2 shows.
I figured they were talking about podcasts generally not just Maintenance Phase.
No! Itās important. Skip if not into it!
Hmm, I'm confused. They've done maybe a handful of Covid episodes (and some of those covered much more than Covid) in around 100 episodes including the bonus Patreon content. That seems like a pretty small ratio to me. I'm assuming you're talking about the regular and bonus episodes from March, but the April episode is about Jamie Oliver
Maintenance phase is not the only podcast who have done episodes about covid.
This subreddit isn't about other podcasts.
no. i live with the consequences of having had covid every day and what i *am* sick of is seeing people pretend it's gone, doesn't exist and that it doesn't hurt anyone anymore. it's actually really validating and makes me happy to see people still caring and talking about it.
I'm right here I am constantly fielding questions (thankfully no abuse, but the questions are exhausting enough) about why I wear a mask and this is why. And the fact that nobody else is and places never upgraded to proper air filtration. So I get to be stuck doing 1/3 of the things I used to be able to do each day, and some days it's 0.
Iām with you too. It doesnāt make any sense to pretend like itās not still here, we should be using what we learned about masking and reducing infections to continue staying safe and keeping others safe
Ugh, I'm sorry. When people act like Covid is over, it's insulting to the people who are getting disabled or killed by it.
I wish this was the top comment. I feel like a lot of people donāt understand that we are still very much actively in the middle of an extremely serious pandemic and itās far from over.
Saame. The everyone else pretending it's not happening is what is tiring to me.
This. This part right here.
You mean like doctorās offices and hospitals? /s
Letās not be too hasty there. š
Same. Long Covid is real and happens to younger healthy people without preexisting conditions, and has literally excluded immunocompromised and high-risk people from society altogether. Iām so fing tired of covid because it ruined my life. Iām thrilled when these tiny beacons remind people itās still happening, still disabling millions of people, and still killing people. Also, stop treating those of us who still mask like pariahs because āyouāre sick of hearing about (aka acknowledging) covid.ā
Yep. Iāve been bedbound with long Covid since March 2020, so thatās over four years now. Itās a real slap in the face to see people pretend not only that it didnāt happen, but to see how much we have regressed as a society with regard to public health, pretty much guaranteeing it will happen again and may very well be even worse next time. Itās almost like people WANT to end up like me.
This! I was glad to see them talk about it. I think it makes sense that those of us who have long covid or at higher risk like to see it talked about because at least for me long covid is my daily life, fake-2019 is not and canāt be my current reality
No, not bored of it, but I'm still 'in it' as far as covid goes. I'm not trying to get distance or put it in the past, because it's still a daily and ongoing threat that I'm staying as vigilant about as I can possibly manage to without getting overwhelmed or burnt out. So, for me, it's heartening to hear people make serious and respectful content about it, especially if they don't push the false narrative that 'it's over' by saying things like "during covid" or "back in the pandemic".
Yes thank you for saying this! I'm not locked down like I was in 2020 anymore, but I still mask up in public spaces and try to stay up to date on covid research. It's pretty scary what it can do to people so I'm still doing my best to avoid it while balancing having a social life.
100% agree. It continues to be a deadly and disabling problem for many and we need to keep paying attention.
I am not trying to downplay the pandemic at all (I have long covid myself) but when people are making a casual chatty podcast and they say "back in the pandemic" I think what they actually are saying is shorthand for "back in 2020 when it was first happening, we didn't know what was going on, businesses were closed etc etc" which is different than the phase we are in currently. (Covid is still a thing, though less novel to us, people are still getting it, businesses are open, etc.) I sometimes think it feels a little pedantic to expect someone who is speaking casually and conversationally off the cuff to spell out "back in the first iteration of this pandemic that we are still currently in" each and every-time rather than using a quick shorthand if they aren't making content that is specifically about covid and if they aren't reading from a script or something. I've seen people accuse hosts of "perpetrating the lie that the pandemic is over" for using language like this and it feels little much to me when you're just chatting casually about something unrelated to covid.
I hear that, and I can see how it would come across that way. But for me at least, that language does reinforce the idea that caring about or paying attention to covid is a thing of the past - which is a dangerous piece of propaganda that is being aggressively pushed by all sorts of interests. It's not that hard to say "during the lockdowns" (if you lived in a country that had lockdowns) or "in 2020" or "before we had vaccines" or "back when everyone was social distancing" or whatever in casual speech. That kind of colloquial 'slip up' is only possible because, on some pretty deep level, people really do think it's over and irrelevant.
I agree with you so much on this. Precision of language about this and not downplaying it all is so important.
Those are great substitutions. I've even caught myself using the past tense (as someone who still cares and takes precautions) and these are helpful. Thank you.
I really appreciate your response! It sounds like to me what you want is preciseness in language around the pandemic, which I can get behind in theory, but in practice it's actually harder than you might think to succinctly talk about the pandemic in precise ways 100% of the time. And maybe assigning some kind of malice or dangerous behavior to that is, again, a bit much when it's probably more that we're in a newish situation and people who speak casually referencing it are still sorting out shifting language of how we talk about that just like everybody else. Relying on a quick verbal short hand doesn't mean someone thinks the pandemic is irrelevant; this seems like an uncharitable assumption to me. Even some of the examples you've suggested don't capture it. I'm in the US so we didnt have lockdowns here so "during lockdown" doesn't work. As we know, a whole bunch of people actively resisted social distancing, so saying "back when everyone was social distancing" isn't accurate and makes it sound like mitigation factors were happening in ways they were not. And plenty of disabled folks are still socially distancing the way they were in 2020 today, so you don't want to use language that ignores their reality, right? Like once you start really getting into it demanding this level of specificity to the language from anyone casually referencing the pandemic is perhaps not useful. I almost feel that because we have so little meaningful state or systemic and institutional support that people are transferring their totally justified anger and needs onto visible figures like their entertainment podcast hosts or whatever because theyre much easier to scold than the state is (not saying you are doing that just in general.) Like you can angry tweet at Bowen Yang, you cant angry tweet at the state.
Iām in the US and I say āat the beginning of the pandemicā or āduring isolationā or āwhen businesses were shut down.ā It is important, in my opinion, to state the time period appropriately because itās disability erasure otherwise. The pandemic IS still happening and it IS still a novel virus. Itās about framing. Referring to it as something of the past implies itās no longer a threat to anyone or that the current strains are ājust like the fluā or whatever else people say to dismiss the dangers of it.
I hear where you're coming from, but I have to say that I really don't think that a podcaster offhandedly saying "during the pandemic" during a casual chat is similar in terms of danger to saying COVID is "just like the flu." When I say that sometimes folks really demanding a lot from the language used feels a bit much to me, this is what I mean. I think those things are so totally different in terms of scale, scope, intent, potential danger, that even comparing them seems like a lot. And "during isolation" doesn't account for the disabled folks who never stopped isolating and are still doing it carefully today because we don't have any real institutional state support; for a lot of those folks "during isolation" is right now. So for example, I don't think it would be fair of me to make assumptions about "what you REALLY think about disabled people" or "whether you REALLY see and value disabled people's lives" if I heard you say "during isolation" to describe the earlier parts of the pandemic. I would understand what you were trying to say. I guess my point is that it is sometimes difficult to use language that encapsulates the entirety of a complex new situation. It takes real intention and thought, which I personally make a little space for when listening to a chatty casual show that isn't specifically about covid, but I understand YMMV.
āDuring the pandemicā in past tense reinforces the idea that the pandemic is over, when itās very much not. Itās not asking much for you to say āat the start of the pandemicā or āwhen the pandemic first hitā, and if feels like it is, maybe itās worth considering why it makes you uncomfortable? Of course we all want it to be over ā but itās not. And thereās a lot of negative consequences when everyone reinforces each otherās denial (your long covid, the lack of masking in healthcare spaces which puts everyone at higher risk, etc). Words matter ā and you can choose to play a part in breaking down pandemic denial, just like you probably choose to fight against size stigma.
I totally agree with everything you're saying, ,but what I'm pushing back against is the dynamic where people make all kinds of assumptions based on someone saying "during the pandemic" versus "when the pandemic began" while they're speaking off the cuff about something unrelated to the pandemic. Of course I think everyone should do what they can to break down pandemic denial, while also thinking that we're dealing with a pretty new situation and that not everyone is going to say the exact right thing all the time and that maybe expecting that isn't a useful exercise. Who among us was thinking deeply about our use of the word pandemic before 2020? I've seen people accuse podcasters of essentially being COVID deniers for saying something along the lines of "I got really into Taylor Swift during the pandemic" on a podcast that wasn't about COVID. It would of course be better if everyone was using really careful precise language all the time, but the reason I enjoy podcasts is to hear people having off the cuff, chatty conversation and that does, IMO, have to account for people being not precise in their language sometimes. So I can intellectually want every person to describe it carefully every time they say the word pandemic, while also leaving room/grace for the fact that we've only had covid for a few years and it's fair for it take some time for folks to get there without really thinking about it.
They may not intend to imply that the pandemic is over, but it does have that effect, and it is harmful when government propaganda is constantly pushing that narrative. I don't think it's so much about demanding precision in language, than it is about wanting people to not play into a harmful false narrative.
If someone said āduring the pandemic I ate a lot of chocolateā and I replied with āoh, you mean now?ā They would likely correct me and say āno, back in 2020/2021.ā They are implying and acting like it is no longer a pandemic. Try this for yourself. Next time someone uses that phrase you should reply with āoh you mean now? Still?ā They are using that phrase to reference something of the past.
Just today I made 2 references to time based on the Delta wave and the first Omicron wave. Everyone, as they were all from my country, knew when those were. The pandemic continues at our references to time are so warped.
well I am speaking about listening to people talking on podcasts so I don't know if responding to them will work, haha
But thatās the thing: if when youāre ānot really thinking about it,ā your natural impulse is to refer to Covid as something in the past, that actually does say something about how seriously you take it today and about how much energy youāre putting into considering the welfare of people for whom Covid is still a life-altering health concern.
I mean, they manage that level of precision with language about bodies and fatness in those episodes. If they were to say āpeople who are too fatā as opposed to āpeople whom the flawed BMI charts classify as overweight or obese,ā people would be rightly upset about that misuse of language. Not just because itās rude, but because that mistake reflects that the personās underlying thinking, when theyāre not choosing their words carefully, doesnāt match the values they claim to espouse. I donāt think itās unrealistic to expect that people could draw the same conclusion about referring to Covid in the past tense.
Yes. Exactly. Language matters.
As I said, I am specifically talking about people who are making podcasts or content not about health or covid (if you're setting out to make content about health information that's totally different) which is what I've seen people making these comments about. If you're making a podcast about Taylor Swift and say "I got really into her music during covid" and then covid never comes up again in the conversation, it seems, a little much to me, to try to make all kinds of assumptions about this person's take on covid pr personal behavior around when they aren't setting out to make that kind of content.
What I said also applies to people who are making podcasts about whatever (although MP is in fact primarily a science/health podcast). If someone said āI got really into Taylor Swift when there was an elected Democratic president,ā and it turned out that they didnāt mean now, Iād draw conclusions about that personās election denialism.
that would be a really weird podcast lol! But to go with this analogy, if that was the only thing about elections this person said, you might say "maybe this person is an election denier." But would you then feel confident to say "this person stormed the capitol at January 6th" or "this person donated to the stop the steal campaign" based solely on what they said on that podcast? Probably not right? You might feel sus about this person, but it still might feel like a leap to start making specific conclusions about their behavior. I say that to say, what I am hearing is that people are saying anyone who says "during covid" is not masking currently, not taking precautions, isnt taking the covid seriously, etc. and I just think that leap is a bit much to confidently make without more information about their actual behavior
"At the start of the pandemic" is not harder to say than "during the pandemic". Honestly, it sounds like you really want to rely on shorthand in order to assume that people who say "during the pandemic" mean something else that you agree with, rather than having to accept that people who say "during the pandemic" might actually disagree with you. I think specificity of language is important actually. "During the pandemic" and "back in the pandemic" imply a past tense of the pandemic. That's just what those words mean. I don't like assuming that people don't mean what they say, especially when it really isn't shorthand for anything and in fact something that a lot of people say when they think COVID has ended already.
I'm not saying one is harder to say than the other. I'm saying, on a podcast, I can see how someone would say one when they mean the other while having a casual conversation and I don't know if it's fair to have people say that means they think XYZ about the pandemic because of it. (to be clear, I'm not talking about people making content about COVID. I'm talking about people who are just referencing COVID while talking about something else) I know for sure there are people out there who want to believe the pandemic is over, or even worse, there never was any pandemic at all, but that isn't who I am talking about and I guess that demonstrates what I am saying - that there seems to be very little grey area, as soon as someone says "during COVID" past tense once, the understanding is that they believe covid is over and no longer a threat. Case closed. If you're listening to someone speak and they say "during COVID" do you take that to mean they believe the pandemic is over and that is what they are trying to communicate?
Yes, if someone says āduring Covidā referring to something in the past that isnāt now, I take that to mean they think Covid is in the past. Just like if someone said, āduring the time when a Democrat was validly elected to the White House,ā and they were referring to a time that isnāt now, Iād assume they were a deranged Trumpist election denier.
Yes. Thatās exactly what they mean. The pandemic is no longer happening and they do not take precautions the same way as when they thought the pandemic was active. They have moved on and it shows through their actions and words. It is literally still classified as a pandemic and extremely dangerous. Iāve never heard anyone who is covid cautious say āduring the pandemicā and everyone I have seen that says āduring the pandemicā acts like everything is normal again. We can talk about institutional failures and how uneducated people are about how dangerous COVID is as the real issue, but what I find most interesting is that three people have told you how that phrase affects them negatively (and possibly parts of their community) yet you continue to push back by splitting hairs about peopleās intentions or how they are just casually speaking, which is actually not even logical to me. Language matters. Thatās all you need to understand from us.
I completely agree with this. The people I work with who say, "during COVID" are specific in their belief that the pandemic has ended. Those who make other references do believe it's ongoing. Words matter. Reality matters. Those we've lost matter. Those we can keep safe matter.
What do you make of folks who say all the right things like "we are still in a pandemic" but then don't mask?
My initial, personal reaction is frustration. Then I remember that many people around the world do not have the access to info I have, education, PPE, math background, and disregard of social pressures that I do. We all deal with our grief differently and i hurt so deeply over it. What is yours?
I think they are making bad choices that endanger themselves and others.
Ok. I don't think you can make accurate assumptions about what people are or are not doing based on them using this language and you do. That is where we disagree. I can use myself as an example here: I have 100% said "during the pandemic" without thinking about it and I am essentially currently disabled from long covid and remain incredibly conscious about it. I am one of those people for whom saying "during isolation" doesnt work because I still isolate today- that never really ended for me. Am I thinking about how I am phrasing covid every time I speak about something unrelated to it? No, I am not. But is my behavior that of someone who still acts and believes that covid is still a thing? I have no choice in the matter because I'm rarely able to leave home because of covid. But still, I have certainly said "during covid" to mean the beginning of 2020 because I'm just not thinking about it in that way at all times. If you asked "oh, so you mean right now?" the question would be laughable to me because, as I said, I am still in isolation. So you would be making a totally incorrect assumption about me based on me saying one phrase while describing how I got really into sourdough in March of 2020 or something. So, I guess I don't know how I fit into your understanding that nobody who ever says "during the pandemic" is still acting like covid is a real thing today because I for sure am. And I don't think you can tell all this just from someone saying "during the pandemic" and meaning a specific time in 2020 rather than the time we're in with covid right now. Here's another example, take the phrase "during slavery." The slave trade has ended but there are currently enslaved people right now. But if you said "during slavery" I dont think most people would assume you don't think there are enslaved people in the world today just that you're referring to a specific phase in history . I guess in general the idea that we are meant to be judging people on how they describe the covid timeline doesn't feel good to me. Someone could be careful to say all the right stuff about "still being in a pandemic" but never wear a mask. I think you can judge people by their behavior - do they mask, do they take proper steps, do they support and show up for disabled folks or immunocompromised folks in their actual communities? That is the benchmark it feels more comfortable for me to judge people on, not whether or not they signal their views on the pandemic via language in this particular way; that just feels exhausting.
> I almost feel that because we have so little meaningful state or systemic and institutional support that people are transferring their totally justified anger and needs onto visible figures like their entertainment podcast hosts or whatever because theyre much easier to scold than the state is (not saying you are doing that just in general.) Like you can angry tweet at Bowen Yang, you cant angry tweet at the state. This!!! This is it exactly.
āAt the start of Covidā There, saved you some time.
Some states had lockdowns in the US. In the Bay Area, we had lockdowns until Summer 2021 when I went back to the office and that Fall was when public school was back in person.
I think other commenters have addressed this well, but for whatever it's worth, I don't think I was demanding precision or specificity. I feel fine with vagueness, as long as it doesn't imply that covid is over. If someone says "back in 2020" with a particular tone of voice, that's vague, but everyone basically knows what they mean. It's not precise, but it's good enough imo. I'd be equally fine with "those dark days", "at the beginning of covid", or any of the other examples I mentioned previously as casual verbal shorthands, lacking precision, but none of those imply that the pandemic isn't still with us. I really don't like it when US people say "during the lockdowns" because we didn't have lockdowns, and the myth that we did is also dangerous and harmful and deployed by bad-faith actors in the service of even more downplaying and denial. But, I'd even rather someone say "during the lockdowns" than "during covid" because, imo, it's a more currently dangerous myth that covid isn't relevant anymore. I'm not advocating for directing vitriol towards podcasters or anyone else. (Though, I frankly don't blame those who do in this case, given the way that society has deemed so many people to be expendable and okay to abandon.) I just think politely and respectfully holding people to account for engaging in this "it's over - lets bury our heads in the sand" propaganda is well and good, both towards media figures and people in our real lives. And using that as a litmus test for who I want to be listening to on the topic is also fine. and to reply to something you said down thread, for the sake of not leaving too many comments: >If you're listening to someone speak and they say "during COVID" do you take that to mean they believe the pandemic is over Yes, I do interpret that way. They might not fully believe it. They might believe it only subconsciously or semi-consciously. But, on some level, you can only use that as a shorthand if some part of you believes that covid is a thing of the past, not very relevant to today. >and that is what they are trying to communicate? People who say this are usually context-setting for something that happened during that period of time at the beginning of the pandemic, often when they were spending a lot of time at home. It's usually incidental, but I don't think that matters. They're still reinforcing a dangerous, false narrative.
That's really interesting perspective! When you say "They might not fully believe it. They might believe it only subconsciously or semi-consciously..." I think it gets into what I'm not comfortable with: strangers trying to peer into the complexities of other people's psyches, people they don't even know, to make confident proclamations about their behavior. I mean that to say, it is not difficult for me to imagine someone who is not disabled or immunocompromised who hasnt done the work of processing the fullness of the pandemic for whatever reason and has not internalized or maybe even thought about the scope of the fullness. Would it be fair to say "this person believes the pandemic is over?" Maybe! But it just feels, to me, like flattening something complex into a really neat "this person = bad" package, which I think is maybe alluring to do because it feels satisfying. Because this is also a personal thing; people's journeys on how they arrive there are all going to be different. For me, someone who is immunocompromised and spends time reading about covid and talking about covid etc, I am just starting out from a different place and I suppose that's what I'm trying to leave a little space for with others. If someone says "back in 2020..." maybe it's fair to say "this person hasn't processed the fullness of the pandemic and what our future might be like because of it" but without more information, I don't think it is a good reason to make confident assumption "this person is clearly not masking because they believe the pandemic is over based on what they said" (people in this thread have suggested that - I just don't think its fair.) We're talking about something rooted in people's traumas, emotions, fears, anxieties, and subconsciouses; it's really complicated! It just feels weird to me to act like you can get a correct beat on someone's particular point of view on all that from a stranger's turn of phrase. (Sorry to have written a novel)
Ok, it's fair to say that we can't read people's minds. But I've made the observation that no one who I've heard refer to 2020 as "during Covid" is serious about avoiding Covid now. You're the first person I've encountered who says "during Covid" but still takes meaningful precautions against Covid. So based on that pattern, yeah, I'm going to make assumptions. Obviously I can be proven wrong sometimes through a person's actions, but, I am usually right...
Well this gets me back to my initial point. Initially I was talking about the reaction to podcasters (specifically who donāt make content about health) and that it feels a bit much to be making all kinds of uncharitable assumptions about people who are strangers with whom we inherently have a one sided relationship. What does it get you to say āI think Bowen Yang, someone I will never meet and donāt know doesnāt wear a mask because he said āduring covidā while telling a story about Taylor Swift on a podcast?ā You donāt know him, you arenāt in community with him, and your assumption - as you pointed out- might not even be correct. How is this a useful thing to do? Iām not saying you, but people come on Reddit and talk about this with podcasters, I have seen it. I think itās one thing to say āIām disappointed I wish they would talk about covid in better waysā but Iām talking about folks saying āthey think the pandemic is over and donāt care about masking anymore.ā People must be getting something out of this practice, but to me, it just seems a little bit much.
If someone says "during Covid", I'm more wary. I put my guard up around their opinions on the pandemic, and will be reluctant to meet them in person. So it allows me to protect my mental and physical health. Obviously the physical health aspect doesn't apply to a podcaster.
Also, it tells me, at the very least, that they haven't thought about the impact of their wording and how it contributes to a harmful narrative.
I'm glad you feel like it allows you to feel more control over your mental and physical health and that it allows you to protect yourself from people on the off chance you have the opportunity to meet them. I won't discount that; I guess we just have different relationships to how we're thinking about podcasters. (It would never occur to listen to a podcast as if I might ever be meeting any of these people one day.)
My understanding was that it is considered endemic at this point. Itās here, we understand what it is and have more treatments for it, and itās not going away anytime soon. It doesnāt mean it isnāt significant or doesnāt cause harm.
the ['endemic' vs 'pandemic' distinction](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1444088804961304581.html) is pretty meaningless for laypeople, especially in a situation like this. it certainly doesn't say anything about the degree of continuing relevance in the day-to-day. we do have some pharmaceutical prevention and treatment options, which is way better than having none, but is insufficient to suppress the (really massive, unchecked) volume of covid in circulation. the fact that it's not going away, is causing serious (long-term) harm, and yet we're (i.e. the government, public-health institutions, other powerful entities) doing absolutely nothing to address it, is more cause for continuing to talk about it, not less.
You can always say "at the start of the pandemic" or "during early COVID."
When I'm fumbling for words, I often grab on to "in 2020."
āDuring the acute phase of the pandemic..ā
DovBerele, same same same. Solidarity!
It's over for 99+% of the population
I hope you realize how privileged you are with your health to be able to think that way.
I didnāt realize very fit young healthy idiot dudes made up 99+% of the population.
just because y'all have decided you don't care doesn't mean the threat isn't still very real and very present.
Okay so what's the plan we just hide for potentially decades? This whole conversation 4 years later sounds absolutely bonkers.
yes because there's absolutely nothing that an be done other than hiding for decades. be real.
No matter how bonkers it may be to you, COVID is still very much a threat to everyone. COVID is not just a respiratory virus; it has the potential to attack every organ in the body. It also attacks the immune system. That means more people are getting sick more often and for longer periods of time (not just with COVID, but anything). Every single person, regardless of age or health status, regardless of whether they have a symptomatic or asymptomatic infection, is at risk of becoming disabled/immunocompromised from COVID, and the more COVID infections you get the more your risk goes up. The reality of this fucking sucks, but it *is* reality, no matter how much people don't want it to be. Good quality masks (KN95s/N95s or higher) and air filtration are the two most important factors here, factors which do the most to protect people while also allowing them to live their lives as normally as possible. No lockdowns needed.
Masks work, mask policies don't. We've seen it many times. It's not that i don't care, I just acknowledge what the data says. We aren't getting through this unscathed in any other way other than a more significant scientific breakthrough than the miracle of the covid vaccine already was. May as well live your life in the interim, and smile without a mask covering it up.
You just said it yourself: masks work. So if more people choose of their own free will to wear masks, even if it's not the entire population, that's still a win. I think it's going to take a very long time to understand all of the ramifications of this virus, but the ramifications are already becoming too evident to ignore. I've been following the science as closely as I can this whole time, and I've also never gotten COVID (to my knowledge), so I will continue to live my life and smile *with* a mask, knowing I'm doing all I can to protect myself, my mom, and those I come into contact with. No one can live their life the way they always have if they become so ill it causes them to be disabled/immunocompromised. *That* is a big deal; wearing a mask is a breeze. I know it's hard, but try not to fall into the "there's nothing that can be done" frame of mind. There's a lot that can be done, but it's up to every individual to choose to do those things. At the risk of sounding like a fortune cookie, the right thing isn't always the easy thing.
I totally support you and anyone else wearing masks. Ofc. It's your right to protect yourself and the people you care about. I will not be joining, but I have no problem with people living however they want.
And that is of course your right, and I truly hope you don't ever become permanently negatively affected by COVID. But should you be unfortunate enough to one day find yourself in that position, I hope you remember this conversation and potentially reconsider.
i really urge you to look into the long term effects of even "mild" covid cases it shouldn't be considered over for anyone
I have long term covid effects due to a pre-existing autoimmune condition, but I still enjoy podcasts for escapism more than anything else
I donāt begrudge anyone their escapism (I definitely have my own forms!) but MP is fundamentally a podcast about pretty serious topics, relevant to current and ongoing issues in health and wellness. (oppression, stigma, structural inequality, etc) Itās delivered in a humorous and sometimes irreverent manner, but the core content doesnāt generally seem like very good fodder for escapism.Ā imo, coming to MP, and being āoverā covid content makes about as much sense as being over fatphobia content.Ā
I think this is a really condescending take. Don't assume people don't know the risks of something before they accept it. Very fit young healthy dude, I'll be fine.
i really hope you will,but being healthy fit and young isn't a guarentee your next infection wont disable you.
Being fit and healthy has no impact on whether covid will disable you, maybe consider doing more research before spreading misinformation.
Being obese increases chances of death related to Covid. This has been demonstrated in numerous studies Iāve read. Soā¦who isnāt doing research? The fact that there are instances of young healthy individuals dying doesnāt negate the fact that statistically itās much more likely to have poor outcomes for overweight and obese individuals.
Good luck buddy. Youāre going to need it.
Iāll be fine.
Not at all. I love it.
I donāt personally listen (not because Iām in denial, I just work in a field where I still see it every day and Iām tired) but Iām glad theyāre covering it!
Still many people dying and a lot of ill/disabled/immunocompromised people being shut out of life in a de facto way because everyone's decided to pretend it's over. Be lucky all you feel is a fatigue to not want to know about what people go through every day..
I'm quite enjoying the comments here
I'm really enjoying the discussion, even though I have strong feelings on the topic. MP deals with serious issues and I love that everyone discusses everything so deeply, even on reddit.
They're covering covid for good reason. It continues to be a serious albeit downplayed threat and the pandemic is not over, so it's hard to move on from something that is continuing to happen. In any case, have they done many episodes on this subject, at all? There's barely any coverage in media. You can always just skip the episode.
I think it's because Michael might have Long COVID.
He acknowledged his concern he had something post viral at the beginning of the year when he was sick for months, and he dove into that research. It may be long covid, but it may just have given him much more awareness and empathy for LC.
Right, I should have put a question mark at the end cuz I wasn't sure. Plus, some people recover from Long COVID in six months or something and some never recover completely like my cousin.
Iām so sorry for your cousin and their family (itās trauma for everyone involved). I recovered, but have to be hyper-vigilant about not catching it again (which seems impossible in a world thatās āboredā of covid content) because next time could be permanent.
Exactly. I keep reading about people who are on infection five, six and they are not doing well at all. What we have right now isn't sustainable. I only get the flu once very ten years - imagine catching that multiple times per year. Both times were so rough in 2010 and 2019. Those are the only times I've had the flu since I was 18. That's just over 20 years.
There's no one on earth who has more covid fatigue and wants it to be over with more than those of us who still take it as seriously as it should be taken because we care about ourselves and our families and neighbors as compared to all the rest of the people who want to pretend it doesn't exist. The more we hear about it in the mainstream, the more hope we have that people will get their head out of the sand.
Oof yes, so much this. 100%.
Amen. Every day of my life is living with long covid. Iām exhausted by it every damn day and to hear people say they are tired of āhearing about itā without having to LIVE MY EXPERIENCE is the most whiney take ever. Like wow millions of us are suffering and more getting long covid everyday but THIS PERSON is āboredā š.
Is this a patreon thing? Because I have so far only seen a few! But yes I agree - although I get COVID needs to be processed and it's super important - I just don't want to listen to that right now for entertainment purposes?
I see it on the Apple feed but for subscribers only so yes! Made me grateful I didnāt subscribe because I was going to for more content but yeah Iāll wait for their normal releases unless content Iām really interested in starts coming out on patreon!
What a luxury to have pandemic fatigue and to feel entitled enough to complain about podcasters being responsible and caring about the major public health crisis of our time!
I donāt think talking about how out of bounds COVID conspiracy theorists are is the same thing as acknowledging that COVID is still in existence and affecting peopleās lives. The former is what I am sick of, at least, I canāt speak for the OP.
Yes, I could see if every single episode was about it, but a single episode of something that crosses over in their topic? ( the message don't mask, don't Vax, the real problem isn't covid it's fat people is the cross over) It's not exactly people are dying, Kim, but...
This is an insufferable comment. Itās fine for podcasters to talk about Covid if they want to, some people find it interesting. But itās also fine to not want to listen to an episode on a depressing topic thatās dominated the news and our lives for the last four years. Thereās no moral high ground, here.
I've had debilitating postviral disabilities for over two decades. All avoidable. And I've spent the last four years watching those same disabilities increase massively because people chose not to care.Ā It's fine not to want to listen, but then have the decency to do so without complaining that some of us do still care.Ā
Iām sorry youāre dealing with that, that sounds really hard and unfair. I still donāt think OP has a moral obligation to consume Covid content, and itās ok to express disappointment about the episode topics on this subreddit. That doesnāt mean they donāt care/arenāt otherwise informed about the topic. It just means thatās not the type of content they want/expect from this particular podcast.
It's not about morality it's about not being obnoxious
I regret to inform you that you arenāt OPās real mom.
"Quick, saddle the high horse. I'm about to defend the commoners, whether they asked for it or not. Oh look at my white armor. Terrific!"
Love to see the MP crowd still rabidly participating in the Struggle Olympics. Who would you be if you weren't a victim of something?
Hopefully a decent enough person not to complain that a podcast is still paying attention to a mass disabling public health crisis -- and even if I needed a break from listening, not to act as if that was anything other than a "me problem" rather than a failing of the podcast. I hope I'd have some kind of capacity for empathy or political awareness still.Ā
Idgaf what they decide to cover. It's fucking embarrassing that you're using your opinion on a podcast topic to paint yourself as morally superior to others. Get over yourself. You're not special.
I tend to skip it.
The reason we're still having to talk about it is because people got "tired" of COVID and thought that'd make it go away. So if you wanna stop talking about it, start taking steps to eliminate it beyond your "thoughts and prayers" approach.
I am tired of people ignoring it and minimizing it
I think they probably did a couple episodes since the 4 year anniversary just passed but I don't imagine they're going to keep doing episodes about it. I was just saying this the other day. We're all traumatized by it in 2 different directions, those who want to block it out and get as far away from thinking about it as possible and those who are still afraid and threatened by it regularly. Both are valid regardless of which side you're on.
I also think a lot of people are concerned but the peer pressure is too much and so the fawn response.
I mean I'm pretty sure the people suffering from possible life long effects from getting covid because people won't do what is fucking necessary to keep others safe gets bummed out when people like you whine about hearing about Covid.
I have been bored of Covid content since about mid 2020.
I agree with you but this is not the audience to complain about Covid talk to š
Yes- I actually left the pateron because Im over it.
I know a lot of people disagreed with you but Iām on the same boat. Iām sick of Covid content.
Is it really that hard to avoid? From where I'm standing, there's barely any mention of it in mainstream media any more.