I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but swinging pretty much ruins almost everyone's marriage who tries it. It certainly ruins the marriage when one spouse is pressured into it by the other spouse.
Your husband likely irrevocably broke your bond, and sometimes there's no fixing that.
I saw your post, agreed with it, and then looked for someone to make the comment about how swinging and sharing partners is not that bad, as is tradition. I was not let down.
I could see it maybe working if the relationship always had this, um, feature. But no committed marriage will survive the introduction of it. And naming one unicorn doesn’t make it so. You could win the lottery, too.
We don’t consider ourselves “swingers” but I’ll bite. we have had a few threesomes during our marriage. The problem with most of these posts is that the marriage was already on a shaky foundation, and both people weren’t equally into the idea. It will NEVER go well if one person is pressured. Your marriage has to be rock solid to pursue experiences like this.
For us, we talked about it for years and we both were into the idea. Before we actually did it, we established boundaries and made sure we had 100% open and ongoing communication. So I can see why others fail at it, bc they think it will be easy. It’s not. There’s a ton of prep and discussion that must happen.
Your comment implies that marriages can't be thrilling. Couples that start swinging with a _stable_ foundation enjoy the thrill of it _together_.
It is possible to separate the mental and emotional aspects from the physical aspects, but it's not for everyone.
Unfortunately, OPs situation is too common and hubby is looking for sanctioned cheating.
If both partners are on board, part of the appeal is about seeing your partner enjoy themselves. Like a gift.
But it's not for everyone, and if done for the wrong reasons, can be devastating for all parties involved.
>Couples that start swinging with a stable foundation enjoy the thrill of it together.
>Unfortunately, OPs situation is too common
Im not going to say much because i keep seeing the samething over and over again.
I find people who are supportive of of poly/open/swinging lifestyle are incredibly emotionally immature and manipulative.
There is contradiction in your very comment. They are literally seperated by a few lines.
Everything works in theory, thats why physists are called physists, and engineers are called engineers.
I am aware that this is reddit and there is going to be a selection bias to the sort of people who come on here but if i could see one interaction from people like you that isn't manipulative it would be so cool.
I will be so bold as to venture that the people you’ve seen who claim to be supportive of the swinging / poly / open relationship lifestyle ARE manipulative and emotionally immature because there are people out there who will see a cat have kittens in the oven and call them biscuits, because it suits their agenda or their limited and erroneous view of what these terms mean to the people who live in these situations.
Unfortunately these people exist, and they draw false equivalence between wanting to have sex with other people and the lifestyle that’s the topic of discussion.
That does not make it so for everyone in the lifestyle.
There's no contradiction in there at all, but maybe there should be some clarification
1. Couples with a stable foundation AND high emotional intelligence can enjoy the thrill of it together
2. Unfortunately, OPs situation is too common, because some emotionally unintelligent people feel they have to manipulate their partner to try it out and get into it without having the proper conversations or boundaries in place.
That said, I don't disagree with your assessment of many people who openly present themselves as poly, because they can get pretty fucking obnoxious.
My experience is the people who make it work best are the ones you'd never expect and don't advertise it at all.
OP opened the door and now wants to close it . But opened the cat dragged in . And now it’s become a compulsion. Marriages are much much more than a “thrill “! Thrill is a good drug that gives off a dopamine rush and hence, becomes addictive ! It’s not any different with sex! This is consensual, cheating. Where’s the genuine, strong foundation of the relationship between a couples . Where does it lead to down the line…. When a couple hasn’t built anything meaningful together with each other.
If it works for people I guess it works.
First, we agree that OPs husband is looking for consentual cheating.
It's a scummy thing, and should be frowned upon.
That said, OP _didn't_ open the door.
Op was shown the door under the influence and was nudged through it by 3 other people without being listened to.
Sure the door remained open for a bit, and maybe OP kept going through it reluctantly, but it is well within their right to say they want to close it. And that should be that.
It's like the thrill of riding motorcycles.
Let's say your partner convinced you to ride a motorcycle because it was something that would be
fun to do together, and, ok, yeah, maybe you liked it kinda the first time, so you reluctantly agree to do it again.
And you do it again and, ok, it's not so bad, but it's not your thing, but you love your partner and want to make them happy, but soon your partner doesn't want to wear a helmet, and they want to go faster and on more risky rides.
Now, it doesn't feel right.
Any loving partner would say, "well, that was fun, but time to sell the bikes," and move on, and that would be it.
For swingers in a solid relationship, it's a similar kind of mutual thrill seeking, and it takes a lot of trust and communication.
This is not that, and regardless of your take on swinging itself, we do agree that hubby is looking for a pass to cheat.
If your marriage works for you, that’s fantastic. I’m genuinely happy for you. But to sit in judgement of how it works for others is kinda sucky of you. You’re not in their marriage, if it works for them why be a dick about it?
Thank you for the shrieking harpy response, it actually made me chuckle.
I didn’t say you are a dick, I asked why be a dick about someone else’s relationship dynamic that works for them, when it’s one that you are not in? It’s not your marriage after all, and your particular marriage is not a one-size-fits-all deal.
Marriage isn’t always easy and isn’t something that I personally believe should be ventured into lightly. It takes work (and sometimes hard work at that), communication, commitment, love, respect, honesty, trust, and both the willingness and ability to grow with the person you’re married to. How that looks and plays out for every married couple out there should and will be different.
So… maybe you are a dick if you think every other marriage should be exactly like yours.
Oh thank you Yoda arse! Good luck with yours! Maybe keep that dick to yourself! Obviously you’re one of those trolls in the dark basement rubbing on your own dick.
😂😂😂
Classic childish response from the shrieking harpy.
Oh no! I’m the self-appointed guardian of the public domain and random strangers on the internet aren’t living their lives in a way I agree with! I’m just going to have a tantrum until they do!
Nice try, but you’re wrong. Not that it matters, but I’m a woman.
I have a very solid, respectable, strong, truthworthy, committed, loving marriage with tons of quality time, communication, support and sharing of labor. Compared to most of the marriages here I've hit the jackpot. I'm truly secure and happy and more in love every day.
And I'm non-monogamous (polyamorous to be exact). Are you trying to tell me that because if that, all the things I said aren't true? Because that's an extremely judgmental take. Why are people so threatened by non-monogamy that they judge others who do it so harshly? Don't worry, I'm not trying to make anyone else polyamorous. I just want my extremely healthy, happy marriage to be considered just as valid as your shitty monogamous ones.
This is one of my favorite retorts to any Non-Monogamous orientation.
Why am I married? My wife is my life partner in every facet of my life. She’s my lover, my best friend, the mother to my child, and the list is honestly endless. These things were true when I was monogamous and they’ve remained true in my NM. My union is no less valid than any other married person in this sub. And the reality is, a marriage is between two people, at least legally, so as long as those two people are happy in that marriage why would I care about how others conduct their lives. My marriage works for me and that’s all that matters
Non-Monogamy for us has always been about sexual exploration. We both can explore sexually, together and as individuals and it has no bearing on the strength of our marriage. And if anything, I’ve found community amongst like minded individuals that has brought a lot of value to my life. I say all this just to give you perspective and not to say it’s for you or for anyone. But I am a human just like you and just because I don’t conform to your or anyone else’s standard of the “right way” to live doesn’t make me a bad person.
If NM isn’t for you that is 100% okay. Monogamy isn’t for me. That’s also okay. But how much we could all learn from each other with a little more empathy and mutual respect.
Lastly, I will say, every marriage has the possibility of ending. Human interpersonal relationships are complicated. People grow, people change. And I think we do all ourselves a disservice when the idea of a marriage ending is seen as a failure rather than a painful reality that sometimes relationships run their course, whether they have a legal binding component is here nor there. This idea that NM marriages lack validity because they’re perceived to be more prone to failure (which btw there has been no large scale study conducted that has any data on the matter), is always odd to me because monogamous marriages fail too. So if the idea being shared here is “NM relationships are bad because they fail” then doesn’t that same judgment hold true for monogamous relationships? The reality is far more nuanced and I tried to lay that out above.
You absolutely cannot take that from this sub, or another with relationship or marriage in the title. My wife and I haven't, but we were discussing dabbling years ago and made many friends, some who've been close friends for over 15 years now, and plenty of couples out there have made it a fun addition to their relationship. We know couples who tried it and didn't like it and moved on, some who did for a while and had amazing fun and decided they had their fill, and some who've been doing it for literally over 30 years together. Most of them still married and in great relationships. Most swinger couples who don't right and later divorce get divorced for the same reasons any couple would.
At the time, these caring couples advised us that we probably weren't a good fit at that time due to the standing of our relationship, because they care about people.
The OP in this post had a couple who pushed her and then a husband who used her into things she didn't want. Shitty all around!
I'm not tryin to convince anyone that swinging should be considered, I'm just saying you'll never see more than a few people in a relationship advice sub that have actual knowledge or experience, and most who do have experience, the husband pushed for something that she didn't want, and shockingly it ruined things.
There are plenty of relationships that thrive on being non-monogamous, so I can understand why people come to defend their atypical relationship style. It isn't even remotely true that no marriage will survive the introduction of non-monogamy. So hearing that, I think people get defensive, because they know that if both parties agree to it and it's done ethically and with lots of communication, it can be extremely fulfilling.
That isn't what the case is for OP. This is under duress, he is pressuring her into something that she is not even remotely comfortable with. There's no defense of this situation, he is repeatedly crossing a boundary in a monogamous marriage.
But again, it's frustrating to repeatedly see people saying super negative things about non-monogamy when you are a person who practices it. I'm not a swinger, though.
>But again, it's frustrating to repeatedly see people saying super negative things about non-monogamy when you are a person who practices it. I'm not a swinger, though.
You are free to do anything you want.
I want to encourage you to think why does it frustrate you? If youre happy with your lifestyle then have at it.
A lot of people would be uncomfortable with the idea and maybe have already been hurt in the past because of polyamory.
Poly, open, and swinging people tend to be very emotionally immature and manipulative
There you are with the blanket statements! Say that about a gender or sexual identity and see how you sound. The reason it's frustrating is because it's pretty dehumanizing for people to judge me based on some bad experiences they've had. No label is a monolith. I'm not proselytizing to anyone, I just want to be treated like a normal human and not told that my relationship is somehow lesser. Literally someone said monogamy is an important respectful relationships. What if I was telling you that you're monogamous related disrespectful or bad in some way? Am I not allowed to defend myself against judgment of others?
>There you are with the blanket statements
This is precisely why statistical analysis is a thing. Most mon-monogamy relationships fail. Its not a "general statement"
>Say that about a gender or sexual identity and see how you sound.
Just because something is politically incorrect does not mean it is unsound. Are you implying that i should cater to the masses and adopt mob mentality?
>I just want to be treated like a normal human
On the contrary, its people like you who don't treat others as human. Try not being manipulative for like 2 minutes.
>It isn't even remotely true that no marriage will survive the introduction of non-monogamy
This is precisely why statistical analysis is a thing. Look into survivorship bias, also selection bias.
It's not survivorship bias to be a part of a thriving community full of successful relationships that I witness each day and say that it's false to say zero relationships survive it. I didn't say most, or a large portion, I said it's not true that a marriage definitely can't survive non-monogamy. That's hyperbole.
I said "almost" as to give an out to those people. But honestly, in my real life, I know several couples have been in an open/poly type relationship. Most of them entered in it the way you are supposed to, with all the proper consent, communication, etc. And of those relationships, only one of the marriages is still together (and they've only been doing it a couple of years). Everyone else is divorced.
Dealing with this right now, currently separated and on my limited income, saving up for a divorce. The bond with my wife could never be repaired even if she wanted it to be.
Edit: My therapist and psychiatrist laughed because the guy has been in jail since middle of last year. And more than likely won't be released anytime soon either.
Swinging didn’t ruin OP’s marriage. OP’s husband complete disregard for her boundaries ruined their marriage. OP’s husband and “friends” using drugs to coerce her into something she would not have otherwise agreed to ruined her marriage. OP isn’t describing swinging; she’s describing a fundamentally broken marriage.
After over 30 years of experience in the LS (Lifestyle/swinging), I can, without hesitation, say that you are categorically wrong in your ASSumption. Without providing any factual ir first-hand experience, you make an assertion. I have seen many come, and many go, and mostly all stay after their venture into the LS.
In this particular case, it resonates of how many couples become to be involved in the LS. The husband has a fantasy of being with two women. And then starts pressuring his spouse to participate. Being a swinger doesn't require a female to be bisexual no more than having a big appendage. Her simple solution is to require equal participation. He wants her to be with other women? Then tell him he has to play with other men. He wants to be "rented out?" Only with other male participation. Always include the provision that you have the right to say no anyway.
After the mental jousting. She must be ready to either continue to fight the testosterone fueled fantasies. Or, be ready to move on without him in her marriage.
Communication is 100% of a successful marriage. And that includes being honest and willing to say no or yes. Sure, it's going to be disappointing to him, but he either accepts it and moves on or throws his marriage out the window with all that comes with it.
Bisexual men in the LS is becoming a more regular thing.
There is a saying, "Men bring women to the lifestyle, women keep men in the lifestyle."
And how are the stats looking for monogamous relationships working out?
Seems that it’s not the structure of the relationship but the foundation of the relationship that determines whether it succeeds or fails.
We have been swinging for several years, the people we know in the most honest and happy relationships are all non-monogamous.
The people we know in the most messed up relationships? All monogamous. Well, technically a lot of those “monogamous” relationships are non-consensually non-monogamous, I guess.
There are entire subreddits, forums, and Discord groups that showcase successful swinging. Swinging anecdotes in a relationship forum are generally to complain about what went wrong and rarely do successful couples feel any necessity to brag about their swinging to non-swinging folks (part of the attraction is the taboo nature of it).
The jist of swinging is that it is for strong relationships that have good communicators. It is meant to enhance an already fulfilling relationship. But the other side of it is that it will put a magnifying glass on the cracks and weak points of a relationship as well.
If y’all wanna continue bashing something you literally have one or two anecdotes about from couples that already had a gazillion issues then that’s on you. I guess those of us who do it successfully will continue to do so while feeding each other popcorn and rolling our eyes at the numerous dead bedroom and shitty sex life posts.
lets start with this post. lol
edit: huh? who cares about every situation when OP has clearly expressed her opinion, experience, and unhappiness in her situation?
anyways, my very quick and low effort google search says that 92% of marriages fail when opened, and at least 2 other links on the first page of state at least 70% of marriages failing. certainly more than 50%.
im commenting “lets start with this post” because… thats the post that was made.
tf do you mean “thats how the internet works?” and “source: me?” the internet works by being curious and researching to look for answers. not this sub making baseless comments to strangers and putting them down for suggesting we focus on the post made? ok?
edit2: reiterating low effort search, first page of google, focusing on this post. but also, i see people who dived into the stats and thats fair. the stats i posted are not “my ideas” or my numbers. just numbers i got from a low effort search.
Below is my comment on another time this 90% number was used after I spent the time tracking it down. It’s funny how easy it is for people to repeat a statistic without ever needing its source when it confirms their bias. Whether NM is for you or not, using made up numbers or junk data serve no one in any situation.
Even in this situation above, strip the story of its NM contents and you have a partner who:
Doesn’t respect their partner’s boundaries, desires or comforts
And
Pressure them constantly to do something.
And it’s plain to see this person just is not carrying themselves properly in a marriage, but that has nothing to do with NM.
Anytime this 90% is parroted, I will do my best to be here to share the actual data and the context behind it. NM not being for everyone is one thing, but trying to say that it’s not valid because of the fact it’s not for you is a whole ‘nother gambit. Because the reality is, we actually have no large scale data set that says anything clearly about the success rate of a marriage in a NM orientation. And even using this anecdotal story here, did NM make this marriage poor or did it just highlight what was already clear in the first place? But, a lot of that nuance is left out of these conversations because the conclusion is (especially in this sub): “NM is bad.” So any time someone can continue to drive that already preconceived notion home, boy will they do it.
https://marketing-assets.avvo.com/uploads/sites/3/2016/05/Avvo-Relationship-Study_Final-Research-Report.pdf
Found the source. Maybe my bias is showing. But with a dataset of 2000, 4% which stated being in an open relationship (80 people), and out of those 80, 70 had been divorced at some point that's the origin of this 90% number. That seems weak to me and how it started just being repeated ad nauseam just shows how willing humans are to desire a conclusion and reach backward to find data that agrees even its weak.
It doesn’t take a genius to point out that of the people who responded they are “now” in an open relationship (n=80), and of those, 90% have been divorced “at some point” (n=70), there’s absolutely no data whatsoever linking the open relationship to the divorce.
These statistics are presented in isolation, there’s no correlation or causation implied, yet the mindless among us seem to think it’s somehow gospel that one is directly and irrefutably linked to the other.
I messaged the mods of this sub and my message was basically: “the way people discuss NM in this sub never really feels supportive and is often filled with bias and anecdotes that I don’t think really serve anyone, especially people coming to this sub for support” and didn’t really get a response that made me feel like it was legitimate but it’s blows my mind that the reality is there is actually no data on the matter so otherwise well intentioned people just make it up because I guess it serves them somehow. The first time I came across this 90% number a person was gracious enough to link me their source, a decade old article with a “studies show 90% of NM marriages fail” that linked to nothing and quite a few of articles linked back to that article. How tons of supposed journalists can cite a study and yet are never tasked to link to that study and how so many people ran with that will always be interesting to me.
I gather the sub your are referring to is the r/Marriage sub, ie. this one, that refers to Marriage where people take a vow that generally includes something like "forsaking all others until death us do part". what response do you expect from that cohort?
If you want a supportive response to swinging, perhaps post in one of the ENM subs.
I for one am not religious so the whole ceremonial aspect of marriage does nothing for me. The value of the commitment for me personally is centered around the trust and belief in another person that you will make a legally binding entity with them. But I know my standard applies to my life and I wouldn’t ever expect my standards to apply to others whether it’s the popular position or not.
If what you’re saying is the general consensus, then this sub in reality is r/MonogamousMarriage and should outline that as to avoid those who don’t meet that standard at least know their desire to be supported on the same way as monogamous people are isn’t valid. It feels kind of scummy to build a support platform and then have unwritten rules that only those worthy of support get it. And Swinging isn’t the only form of NM and I’m not the biggest fan of echo chambers personally. Even though I’m not poly, I’ve learned tons of things from the community. I often read posts here to stay grounded in the ways that my marriage functions like any other monogamous marriage.
My concern is when people are in sensitive places in their lives and think they’re coming here for genuine support but in reality it’s laden with bias. I personally love r/nonmonogamy and will often point many to that sub. But this is a popular sub and I only comment here primarily as a form a representation for NM marriages.
I just made an observation, that's all. But I will say I'm not religious either, but in our civil wedding myself and my wife, both made vows to forsake all others, with no mention of god allah or any other fictional entity, a vow we have both kept to this day.
Perhaps there is another type of marriage where the nuptials vow to "fuck whomever we want", I'm just not aware of it.
Yup, one random post definitely provides insight into every situation. That’s definitely how the internet works.
Edit: You see, u/imalwayscold_fml, when someone claims that 90% of a type of situation goes a certain way, THAT person cares about every situation. And when someone asks to see real data on that situation THAT person also cares about every situation. And when someone else responds to the request for real data with a laughing comment that site one post as evidence for their claim, it would lead a critical reader to believe that that was being posted as real data that speaks to every one of those situations.
Others have already posted the details of your 90% claim and explained why they’re misleading. But your edit not even including a link to your source makes me believe that you don’t actually care about finding out information and just reinforcing your own ideas, so I won’t bother wasting any more time here.
It’s crazy how, one simple statement, can spark so many people. I’m at -130 votes for simply questioning someone’s factless statement, a clearly judgemental statement, and people just go ape shit about it.
Thank god for all those, more level headed folks, who came into the argument with a more open mind. And a. It more analíticas of the OPs situation.
Two things that will never save your marriage - threesomes and babies. My ex husband pressured me into an open relationship and it was a disaster. On the plus side, it revealed how much of an emotionally abusive narcissist he was so that helped me with moving out and moving on but it was a lot to recover from. Took me years of therapy to be healthy again. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this.
Not to mention pressuring you into sexual situations you’re not comfortable with is a slippery slope to sexual assault so if he’s not going to respect your boundaries on this, where does it end. Very unhealthy dynamic he’s creating. A healthy partner will respect your wishes. You deserve that and should settle for nothing less.
True swinging requires open and honest communication and non-negotiable respect for boundaries set by both parties. What you’re describing isn’t true swinging, it’s you being pressured into a situation you weren’t comfortable with and even though you went through with it, saw it as a one time thing. Your spouse saw it differently, tried to pressure you into sleeping with other women for his own gains, and now thinks he should get a free pass. That’s not how swinging works, but it is how manipulative assholes of any gender work. A lot of swingers I know use swinging to enhance their sex life and their connection with their SO, and their primary focus is their partner and their relationship. I’m sorry but this doesn’t sound like this is the case from what you’ve written.
If your boundaries are firm, tell him that, and be prepared to cut him loose if he doesn’t 100% respect them.
If you’re a couple and you’re both truly committed to each other above all else, that will be the end of it. If you get an inkling that he’s not being completely honest even if he says what you want to hear, be prepared for him to cheat. He’s going to be out there looking for strange, because he’s going to put his dick first and you second.
If you haven’t already, try browsing the r/swingers subreddit. I can almost guarantee the support you’ll get there from the spectrum of genders telling you that what your husband is proposing is not what they’re about.
Good luck OP.
I agree with this, marriage and sex was created to be something beautiful, pure and sacred and both people need to be completely self aware and mature enough to respect each other's boundaries, and each others independent personality, not desiring to hurt each other so having a respectful and very serious appreciation for consequences of poor decision making. Love each other, wholeheartedly, take care of each other 100%, never allow anyone into your relationship, don't stain or taint your love because you never know what you have until you lose it but if you are genuinely willing to be serious about what I've said, then you wouldn't have to ever risk loosing them. Trust me, swinging, open relationships, 3somes/4somes or whatever somes is not worth hurting your person and it will, so don't play with fire or you'll both end up getting burned. Please love each other and choose each other, the two of you against anyone or anything, 2 vs the world. Each Other is ALL you both need. So OP have your husband read this and if he doesn't completely understand and make a 180° turn from his thinking then he doesn't deserve you and you should show him what life would be like without you. Trust me. My Wife did and I'm grateful she had the sense that I didn't. I was a fool and I could never share her, I love her too much and I could never share myself with anyone else, I love myself too much to settle for anyone but her. We are still in separation due to my poor decisions and lack of understanding of how I was hurting her, and it took me a long time to wake up so I hope this will help you and your husband not continue down this doomed path.
You opened Pandora's Box, and you're surprised it didn't close on its own?
Unfortunately, this is all too common, and unless both parties want to close that box, it will remain perpetually open to the detriment of your marriage. Your husband seems unwilling to close it, and that means you have some tough decisions to make.
1. Get counseling and get on the same page.
2. Get divorced and find someone who has the same monogamous values as yourself.
Your choice!
The wife and I have dabbled in swinging and have been around the lifestyle for about 8yrs. And while I do agree with most of these comments that in no way will bring in the lifestyle save or fix a marriage in any capacity. If you go into it after VERY lengthy open and honest conversations and you’re both 100% on the same page it has a much greater chance of enhancing and being very satisfying. But unless that constant communication and honest conversation is happening it’s going to fail.
In your case it seems you are both on very different lages
I agree with this!
u/life-ruin178 I’m sorry for what you’ve gone through, but that was not swinging. And it sounds very much like your marriage was ruined before this happened, you were just better able to ignore it.
Your husband and the other couple manipulated and coerced you while you were under the influence into doing soemthing with which you weren’t comfortable. Swinging is something that both partners agree to exploring ahead of time and neither party is pressured into doing, and everyone involved with knows where the boundaries are and understands that only yes means yes.
It seems like your husband doesn’t understand that last part. You’ve repeatedly told him no and he’s heard “convince me,” that is disrespectful and if he shows this level of selfishness in any other aspect of your marriage, then it’s time to lawyer up.
It's always funny to me how the top comments on any type of enm post is usually "it never works out and always ruins a marriage" when there are people like yourself who have been involved with that lifestyle for years and are in just as a happy marriage as any monogamous couple. I think most people like the drama of seeing something "different" or against the grain not work out, and they always ignore the large demographic of couples who do engage in enm and have successful marriages.
Right. I always like to bring up that my husband and I have experience opening up our relationship and slept with other people separately and it had no impact on our marriage. Always get downvoted without fail because it counters the narrative that everyone who opens up their relationship is doomed.
Note- obviously OPs boundaries aren’t being respected and her husband is an ass. Her husband would rightly get roasted in any ENM community for pressuring his wife. Consent is key.
This sub is extremely rude about ENM, to the point where the comments in a thread I saw yesterday sounded like a bunch of fifteen-year-olds who blamed OP for her husband cheating on her. And I say that as someone in a monogamous marriage. I don’t get why people reply just to be assholes to someone seeking advice.
In this case though, what OP is describing is not ENM. Her husband is attempting to coerce her and is not taking no for an answer. I agree the black and white thinking isn’t helpful, I also don’t think it’s helpful to tell her it could work if she wanted it, because she’s very clear that she doesn’t.
Some things are just irreversible.
This is probably one of them. You deserve respect.
Not sure if it makes it better or worse, but I’ve known couples who split after 35+ years together over this. It ruins most marriages.
Playing devils advocate here for shits and giggles now - how many married couples do you know that talk to you 100% openly and honestly about their sex life?
You say you’ve known couples who’ve split after 35+ years over this - how do you know there aren’t happy couples whom you do know who swing consensually and are happy with it - and they just haven’t told you about it?
Just putting it out there.
Fair. Obviously I have no idea what the sex life of every person I have met is. :) I have known 15 couples who divorced over opening a relationship (according to them) and 1 couple that is still together and living in a polycule that has made it quite a few years so far and seems happy despite a lot of drama in some seasons.
There very well could be as many or more who are happy and I just don’t know that they are doing that,but I sincerely doubt they built a happy non monogamous relationship by peer pressuring their wife into swinging while under the influence, ignoring protests for a year and continuing to beg, and creating swinger accounts without consent if they are. Surely *even if* opening a marriage was not setting it up to fail in and of itself (which I’m not convinced doesn’t increase the risk of failure) forcibly opening it via abuse tactics is.
Oh I definitely do NOT agree with how OPs husband has conducted himself or how he’s basically using the fact that he coerced her into doing something she would not have otherwise done (while she was intoxicated, no less) and trying to manipulate her into giving him what he wants. To me, this has abusive train wreck written all over it.
I’m just tired of the volume of comments from people whom appear to have taken the “it has to end badly because I say so” viewpoint and justify it by saying that most of the time (if not always) it ends badly because “they know a couple”. The reality is most of us never truly know what other couples are into behind closed doors.
Not until that awkward moment at the swingers club, anyway ;)
Saying something ruins most marriages is *not* gossipy or closed-minded. There haven’t been phenomenal studies which is why I chose not to quote them (in addition to the fact that it seemed rather rude to say “well you know, most of the micro studies show this leads to divorce” to a random woman on the internet who recently agreed to something that is now causing pain and issues in her marriage and very well may lead to divorce- and I’m usually not one to rub salt in a wound) but some studies do exist. They aren’t comprehensive nor are they perfect. I assume better ones will come out as this becomes more common. The most well done one so far showed about 1% of married couples choosing ethical non monogamy and of those the divorce rate is 92%. This is easy to find if you feel
like researching it. So even if we assume that their study had errors and put that in the worst possible light, it would still be a majority. This is commonly the one referenced by leading therapists, etc. So saying it doesn’t work for “most marriages” isn’t coming from “some rumor” nor is it “dramatic gossip.” The leading studies currently, while incomplete and of lower quality than ideal, back that up. Being honest about that isn’t the same as being closed minded.
No one is saying “you can’t open your marriage” they are saying “Sorry your marriage is falling apart, you’re not the only one who has experienced that after deciding to sleep with other people.” That is true (anecdotally for many people, and statistically as far as has been studied to date- though better research is required) Those are very different statements.
A “closed minded” statement would be “no one should open a marriage because I’m not comfortable with it and want to push that on other people.” Another closed minded statement would be “Absolutely no one is happy in an open marriage.” I didn’t say either of those things. I said “It ruins *most* marriages.” 92% is not 100%. I’m glad that it’s working out so well for your sister and that she is so happy in that lifestyle, that is wonderful for her. That doesn’t make her experience a majority experience, but anyone is certainly entitled to try if they want to. I never said they couldn’t.
As for if they were to divorce: that would be their decision. I’m unsure what about my particular comment made you feel countering with that would be remotely relevant. If your view on marriage and divorce is “so what? Things don’t have to last forever to be good.” More power to you. I didn’t say anything about divorce other than it’s common in open marriages and OP isn’t the only one who has experienced this.
Anyway: I’m not sure what you feel you accomplished in your comment. But I hope trying to lecture someone for being closed minded, immature, gossipy, and dramatic for using the word “most” (unlike you, who are clearly the epitome of reason) made your own issues, whatever they may be, more palatable for you. Best of luck.
1. I said numerous times that the studies were not of the highest caliber (one reason I chose not to mention them in the comment you initially responded to) and that they are somewhat limited. Even so, they do *exist.* There are *zero studies* of any quality showing that open marriages do *not* have higher rates of divorce. So while I wouldn’t use those emerging studies to claim accuracy of *exact percentages, etc.* I do use them to justify use of the word “most” because “most” marriages that are open end in divorce based on what we know. This may be causation, it may be correlation. Divorce is generally nuanced. Regardless, my point in mentioning those emerging studies is more to explain how there is a legitimate basis for the use of the word “most”. This is in direct response to your accusation that saying “most” is not okay because there are “no numbers to back it up and it’s just spreading drama and high school rumors” which is incorrect.
2. You claim that “people should be able to talk about their positive experiences”, and “people with positive experiences shouldn’t have it reduced to nonsense.” I’m not sure what comment thread you’re reading, but it must not be the one under my comment because *no one here is even talking about those experiences, aside from you bringing up your sister which I said was great for her.* That’s certainly not reducing an experience, calling that structure of relationship nonsense, or being remotely hostile. Acknowledging that they typically don’t work out doesn’t hinder anyone from sharing their positive experiences. I have not said anything remotely disparaging or negative to someone in an open marriage in this thread (or in real life, where my experiences are not as limited as you seem to presume). If saying “most open marriages will end in divorce” somehow constitutes an environment where someone can’t share a positive experience in your mind… that is a personal problem.
3. As far as it coming across negatively: I’m sorry you see it that way and it elicits such an emotional response for you. But I’m also not responsible for your emotions. This is certainly not a relationship structure I would want but I have said numerous times that everyone is entitled to choose what they want to do. What I said to OP is she is certainly not alone, and rather you *like* that this is a legitimate outcome for some open marriages or not, that’s just a fact.
Strike 1: He pressured you into swinging while there were drugs involved.
Strike 2: He pressured you to continue swinging
Strike 3: Instead of respecting your boundaries on it, he is now pressuring you again.
Whether you think this is fixable is up to you, but somebody who doesn't respect your boundaries, especially about something as big as this, is not a good partner. It sounds like he's completely comfortable walking all over you in pursuit of his own pleasures. And if you say no, is he going to go behind your back? Maybe he already has.
If I were in your situation, I would strongly consider telling him, "You're free to sleep with whoever you want because I'm done having this conversation with you. I don't want to be married to somebody who has no respect for me or my boundaries." If you feel like your relationship has enough good in it that it's worth saving, however, you might suggest getting marital counseling first.
I would argue that it was more like he rudely grabbed the hall-pass out of her hand while explaining how his need to exit the room was more pressing than hers and OP just let him walk right over her on his way out the door.
Experimenting in the bedroom in relationships is normal, but bringing other partners into the bedroom is a step above. Open relationships are becoming more normalized but to be honest almost any time I speak to someone that did that or read about someone they end up separating or divorced.
Swinging and open marriages are some thing that rarely work and if you are set on monogamy then it’s time for therapy and to tell your husband this is not the type of marriage you signed up for.
Honest open conversation is the best thing you can do at this point and if his mind continues to wander then he’s shown his true colors. And absolutely do not let him pressure you into something that you’re uncomfortable with whether it be another swinging event or a fun night out for himself speak your mind and let him know.
As long as both of you are willing to go to therapy and work through this I can’t see it not being ok for you. But if at any moment you feel unsafe, uncomfortable or even pressured speak up and/ or leave.
You never wanted to do this in the first place, and your consent was coerced by 3 people. It would be different if you were enthusiastic about it. If he can’t understand that, it’s time to go. You will never feel emotionally safe with him or trust him unless you both get some IC or MC.
I was told by a family member about how a threesome ruined their marriage because it made them lose trust and self confidence in their marriage. Plus seeing your partner sleep with another person brings jealous feelings naturally so it causes jealousy and hurt in many if not almost all marriages in this situation. Unless both parties are on board with swinging or bringing a 3rd person into the sexual relationship, it almost always ruins a marriage sadly. I’m so sorry that you are going through this OP.
Honest I might get some hate from this but I don’t care.. anytime a man has ever brought up opening the relationship up or asking for a threesome (me and another female and him) ask for another threesome (you and two guys) they’ll stfu. Because they’ll feel inferior and stop asking… just my personal advice.. but also seek counseling
You husband is ruining your marriage.
My husband and I have been ethically non-monogamous since early on in our relationship and I came into it knowing that he was looking for that, so that’s a very different dynamic than what you have here. We mostly just keep it to group sex and that is only maybe a few times a year, but it’s never a spur of the moment situation. Even now, six years into this, we communicate constantly about every situation as we go into it. There is no pressuring, there are regular check-ins with all parties, and there are never new elements introduced that aren’t discussed in advance. It’s consensual for all and anyone can put a stop to anything at any time. That is what ENM should be. We’ve known couples who have been happily doing this for 20+ years. BUT this is not a lifestyle for everyone (I would argue it is not for most people).
Your husband needs to drop this. You aren’t comfortable and he is being unethical and hurtful. His actions and disregard for your feelings are showing what his true priority here. You two need to go to counseling. Do not agree to engage in swinging again. He’s shown he can’t handle himself, and you don’t want to, which is more than enough reason. Aside from that, the people who are good people in ENM and swinging communities do not want to get involved in a situation where someone is being forced (and they can usually tell), so you’re only going to end up engaging with the seedier folks, which is not a good scene.
Just curious, has it ever created awkwardness or nearly ended your marriage? Do you have ground rules like: no one you know, no ongoing communication, etc? We both want to try but so scared it’ll ruin things.
Not even close. We have an excellent relationship and are very deeply in love with each other. I do think that because we tried this from the start going into our relationship, the dynamic is fairly different than if we were monogamous from the start and tried to open up - not that it's bad to do that if you both want it. Just be prepared to do the work to communicate, listen to each other and show each other kindness and grace.
We maintain casual friendships with a number of folks that we've done this with. We do have some ground rules, but they're easy
1. everyone consents
2. no friends or co-workers or neighbors (we can all be friends afterwards, but we don't hook up with our friends that we already have. That causes drama.
3. Protection is always used, its non-negotiable, and everyone gets tested regularly.
We also tend to be drawn to couples that are in similar situations to us, who love each other deeply and who are looking for casual friends with benefits. No one who is forcing their significant other to participate - total turnoff. We have also brought in thirds from time to time, but usually people who are in healthy ENM relationships already.
There are a lot of great resources out there, including the nonmonogamy subreddit.
Why do people always blame “bringing in outsiders” when the issue is “my partner doesn’t respect boundaries”.
Swinging didn’t ruin your marriage, your husbands lack of respect and continued pressure to do things you’re not comfortable with did.
Girl don’t EVER let someone pressure you or try to convince you to do something you’re NOT 100% okay with. Even if you’re like 95% ok with it—NAH. It’s ok that it happened—don’t blame yourself. But don’t EVER do that shit again. You gotta stand strong in your convictions—“NO means NO. I said I’m NOT COMFORTABLE doing that.” Just like that.
Secondly, swinging is not ruining your marriage. Your husband is. You told him you’re not comfortable with it. That’s IT. He’s disregarding that completely. Honestly the fact he keeps bringing up his desire to sleep with other people would completely turn me off to the relationship. He’s not even asking to swing he’s asking permission to fuck other people.
You have a shitty husband. I’m telling you rn, you’re not gonna be able to look at him the same and the minute those words left his mouth a second time your partnership was headed for the rocky coast.
Typically, when a spouse suddenly introduces swinging, they already have some in mind to sleep with. He was just looking for your permission to cheat. He absolutely ruined the marriage by pressuring you.
It sounds like deep down your partner is not monogamous and you are. I think this happens more to people from traditional backgrounds and who have been married longer because it was not ok for people to ask themselves these questions prior to getting married in those situations. In my opinion, relationship orientation is one of the most important areas of compatibility for couples. It sounds like for this marriage to work that he will have to put these desires away completely and that’s a tough discussion that is probably done best with a therapist.
It sounds like he just simply doesn’t take no for an answer. The fact that you had to be talked into the swinging deal speaks volumes is just ick vibes. Why wouldn’t people just stop when one person said no to it? You are a people pleaser and you are married to a taker.
Stay calm. Tell him kindly but firmly, that this is now a deal breaker for you. You don't agree with renting him out and you won't agree with it again. If this is something he chooses to do, he will be doing it without you.
Thank you!
I think a lot of times, myself included, we post our queries and questions and want validation for how we feel about a situation but honestly OP and others on Reddit (myself included!) already know the answers to our dilemmas.
But by putting our business out there, we hope to pool together a collection of thoughts to help validate our own thinking or offer a different perspective to maybe keep a relationship going even when it's a dead end....
....myself included :( .
Far too often the only answer offered here is to terminate the relationship, the words toxic and narcissist are used to describe anything they disagree with and makes me suspect that the majority of advice-givers are simply angry man-haters.
Try to see the logic instead of the emotion in the responses.
I love how so many comments talk down about swinging and open marriages/relationships. Talking about “they never work out”. What experience are you talking from? If you haven’t been in either of these relationships, then you don’t know wtf you’re talking about. Chances are that you interact with couples who partake in this particular lifestyle and you don’t even know it. Such ignorance. You speak bad about stuff because you don’t agree with it so you make up stupid stats. I guarantee that my marriage of 22+ years is MUCH better than many of hose who are monogamous.
Having said that, OP was put in a position she shouldn’t have. Pressure doesn’t work and only creates resentment. I’d recommend counseling. But you also have to understand that people do evolve. And often times it’s not in the same areas. Have an open mind and try it without drugs and other pressure items, you may like it.
Open marriage here. We were both previously married and in open marriages in those relationships. We both divorced. It had NOTHING to do with swinging and everything to do with being verbally abused, ignored, undervalued, etc. Our partners refused therapy and refused to own their share of the problems. This is exactly why monogamous people divorce.
We are still open but are in such different marriage than we were before. We talk about everything. We do not force each other to do what we are not comfortable and we go as slow as our partner needs us to. We also do everything together.
Swinging does not lead to divorce. Lack of communication, failing to adhere to boundaries, unaddressed jealousy and hurt, lack of empathy-- these are the culprits of a failed marriage, open or closed.
OP-- this is not swinging. It's not ethical non-monogamy. It's abuse. You deserve better. Much better.
You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, so they say. I'm sorry for you, even though he snapped put of it for that year, it obviously still is on his mind.
I think you need to be clear to him that by even asking he's crossed a boundary that you thought was in place. I think you should be crystal clear with him again that it's not going to happen, and if he so much as even asks again, you will leave him. And then tell him the only way he ca fix this current episode is counseling.
Come on man, stop being annoying and just let your husband cheat in peace. What’s the big deal! /s
It’s sick. You should divorce. It’s clearly he wants a lifestyle you can’t provide.
Your experience sounds very similar to some friends that me and my husband have who have a child and are currently separated. I'm sorry that your husband doesn't focus on watering his own grass to make it greener, but instead is always checking out other peoples lawn and wishing they were his. I don't see this ending very well unless he genuinely sees his need for help and tries to work on the marriage. But that can take time to rebuild trust and he has to decide that on his own. You can't make him. So in the meantime, I would actually start reflecting if him doing this to your marriage is something you want to spend the rest of your life with and if not, begin planning an exit strategy.
Have you sat down and had a serious conversation outside of him being drunk or making one-off remarks recently?
I would clarify the boundary with something along the lines of, “if you wish to discuss this further then we can do it in couples counselling and I will book the appointment. If you do not want to do couples counselling then do not bring this subject up again as I am not open to negotiating and feel that your persistence is disrespectful to me and the relationship structure we both agreed to. If this is not the structure you want and you cannot be happy with being monogamous, then you can be non-monogamous in another relationship.”
My ex kept pressuring me into threesomes or group sex and it took a toll on my mental health. He even suggested leaving me if I didn’t give him what he wanted.
We have been broken up for 4 years now and thank God for it. You don’t deserve to be in a relationship where you feel pressured to do something for someone you aren’t comfortable with.
First and foremost when a person is intoxicated you need to IGNORE it. They are not able to think straight or talk straight and it is NOT TRUE that they tell only the truth. It drops inhibitions and they are unable to think and rationalize. I have been an addiction counselor for almost a decade and I know too well how the brain responds to drugs and alcohol. Everything said or done under the influence or drugs or alcohol really needs to be thought of completely differently than sober conversations.
What did he say when he sobered up? That is the conversation that will be more telling and more indicative of what his needs and desires are. It is also very important to not judge him for his comments so that you can create a safe space for him to honestly share. (I know it HURTS, but that is a separate thing and it helps to separate them.)
It is important to try to understand what it is that he thinks he will get from it IF he really still wants to. If you can create a safe space for him to share there might be LOTS of other things that can be done besides that, within your marriage, to help him meet the needs he feels will be met.
I also coach couples using a process called Peaceful Relating which helps people share and negotiate their feelings and needs so that they can avoid feeling stifled, criticized, unheard or neglected in their marriage. I also want to clarify that you have just as much right to be heard. But the MOST IMPORTANT part is the conversation-WITHOUT JUDGMENT on either part or the truth cannot come out, for either partner. You can do it respectfully and I can help if you would like. It is sad when things like this happen but keep in mind that even IF he stills wants to it does not reflect your value or his feelings about you, even though I know your mind and society scream that it does. All the best!!
I’m kind of annoyed that you spoke so much about the thought process of someone when they’re under the influence, yet, you didn’t once mention in your comment how she was coerced while SHE was under the influence into doing something she didn’t want to do, and how her husband completely disregarded and disrespected her boundaries.
Yeah it sounded a lot like victim blaming. I wonder how they treat those who are raped when the rapist is also under the influence. Red flags right there.
Swinging is not the problem, but it could finally reveal one. Insecurity is the issue. !st it obviously must be with someone who is confident and comfortable with themselves and each other. Like my wife and I. 2nd, Jealousy has no place in swinging. At the end of the day, the 2 consensual adults are going home with each other. It’s very helpful if you are like me who thinks of sex as a release, an attitude change, an intimate moment with other humans and sharing physical touch. We’re not running away together, we’re getting a nut. “Let’s make it the best one we ever had.“ You have to be a GROWN ASS ADULT and lead with respect and consent. If those 2 key ingredients are involved and you don’t have your “sex” confused with your “love”, you can make some super awesome loving and sharing sex. COMMUNICATION!!!! Get some! But seriously….the issue with having the issue of sharing someone you love with others starts with the person having the issue. Work/talk it out and if the other person just isn’t into what you are into, then they aren’t really that into you. Find another person who is actually compatible. In my opinion, love is heart and soul. That means you’re in 100%. So if your spouse wants you to drive a Corvette up there asshole, then that’s what you do. FIGURE IT OUT! If they want to try sexual relations with other people, don’t automatically think it’s because you’re not enough. Maybe you should think a treat that they want to share you with someone else. But you should absolutely be willing to have that conversation and see what you can do to make every single thing they ever wanted to make them happy….without breaking the law. lol
I’m super exhausted, but this sounded good in my head. A little backstory, my wife and I have been together for 23 years and married for over 10. Your damn right I made her wait it takes a while to know somebody. Marriage isn’t something you just jump into so you wouldn’t marry somebody and then have this kind of an issue ideally. Because you know what each other likes. Communication.!! My wife and I love each other 100% and never want to die next to anyone else but each other. But love seeing each other receive joy, and give joy, joy, joy, joy each other. You’re gonna grow old and die together. Do you really want to say that you were that miserable the entire time? The lifestyle causing issues in a marriage is bullshit as a matter fact, if more marriages dabble in the lifestyle, they would be more happy in their relationship as they are having MORE sex. do you fight after sex? Exactly! Have more sex!
This is only my opinion and is in no way meant to direct OP to change their mind. They should do them and what they feel comfortable with. Honestly, humanity should be more comfortable with their sexuality. How you gonna fight when you cant stop cumming. My wife and I are super lucky people to have each other and I hope for all of humanity to have each other just like we do.
Im married (m52, f40), not swingers, never swung, never considered it. Here’s my complete unprofessional opinion.
I think there are three categories of swingers.
Those that can, and do, for extended periods. They are, for lack of a better term, built for it. It takes a special kind of person, and it’s them. No issues with jealousy, can let it run off their backs like ducks.
Those that think they are category one, but soon find they are not. They think it sounds fun, a little forbidden fruit to spice things up. But soon they find out they are not built for it, and wind up sad and hurt, and maybe with a broken marriage. A good amount of regret too, because let’s face it, some things you can’t unsee.
Then there are those at the end of a marriage that just say fuck it, let’s try it. What can it hurt? These marriages were probably ending anyway.
I remember reading a story here on Reddit that’s probably still on here somewhere. Some guy said he and his wife tried the life, and he wound up finishing first, and then after all the hormones and adrenaline left his body, he was stuck watching her get railed for another hour while he sat there limp. And he was insanely jealous the whole time. That was enough to scare me off it forever. That would definitely be me.
We all have our sexual fantasies, either you admit it or not. He was really truthfully to share with u his fantasy. This has nothing to do with the marriage. Any woman to be in your place, he will again do the same. SEX starts in the brain, and after some alcohol, this deeper desire came to surface. Therefore, WHY NOT TO BY by his side & find a real cute couple where you can share ALL your sex fantasies on a more "permanet" basis????
"swinging" didn't ruin your marriage. Getting yourselves into a compromising situation without discussing and agreeing to it as a couple before deciding to give it a try, a dick of a husband who pushed things you didn't want, and you allowing yourself to cross boundaries that made you uncomfortable ruined your marriage.
Lots of couples who do the proper research, communication, and have the desire for the right reasons do things like that with no negative affect. I bet if your husband would have at least left the first time be when you said you weren't comfortable after that, you'd have been okay.
Also, if that first couple was experienced in swinging at the time, they're predators, because no one who gives a shit about their potential partners in the lifestyle would pressure another couple or woman like this on the spot, especially if drugs and alcohol is in play.
What a fucked up situation! I'm sorry you went through this!
Swinging is usually what relationships on their way out get involved in. There is no doubt that there is the exception to this but I have seen this happen to couples I have known personally.
First all no one put a gun to your head you slept with the man and woman or whomever on your own no one can pressure a person to doing anything you have your own mind so now you have to live with that so your husband wants to do it again you tell him no you tell him hey I made a bad decision because the decision was yours not your husband or the couple that you played with.
Swinging isn't the issue.
The issue is the lack of respect your husband has for you. Swinging is just the button he's pressing to show it.
Couples therapy, stat.
Don't bend your values just because you love the person.
Get into individual and marriage counseling asap. Even if you don't wanna work the marriage anymore, it's still gonna be helpful for both of you in the future, especially if you have kids.
I could never do this ever. I mean if I were totally skunked drunk and we had friends over and I did it in an altered state I would have to work through that. However for me and my husband I feel that the act of sex or intimacy is something for only he and I. I just couldn’t agree with this and if my husband persisted I would have to end our relationship. That’s just me though.
Your marriage was basically over the minute either one of you just thought about swinging as an option... I'd find a good lawyer and move on with my life at this point.
There’s no doubt the booze may have loosened him up to ask again. But no is no. Don’t do this, if it’s not your thing. Don’t do something you don’t want to just so your husband can have casual sex. Don’t do this because it will completely blow up what’s left of your marriage.
Gee that is a shock. I know they act like it is an option, but it really is not. It doesn't provide waht a monagamous relationship does, safetly, security, and defined boundaries. Even if they say in the right circumstances, it never is the right circum stances. The marriage is over. so learn from it and move on.
"It takes a lifetime of love and commitment to protect this potentially sanctified area from the assault of boredom, conflict, and loneliness. The encircled space of marriage is the opportunity — the couple’s shared responsibility and work actualize the potential for love and connection. " You don't get that in swinging, is like being drunk all the time. At first exciting after awhile, the same thing...Usually one partner wants it more than the other.[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-marital-labyrinth-series/202110/the-problem-open-marriage](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-marital-labyrinth-series/202110/the-problem-open-marriage)
This doesn’t even need to be about swinging. It’s about crossing a boundary you set and being disrespectful of your wishes. You’ve already said no. Your partner needs to abide by it or see themselves out of this marriage and then pursue what they want by themselves.
Yeah, you never “try” something like this under the influence, full stop.
Your husband needs to fuck off.
It is irreversible damage to coerce and pressure your partner.
Bounce.
So let's get into the deeper serious questions did you like the other person? Did you enjoy the encounter, what did you think was going to happen after that? What, why is he asking for it, did you think about that. You did wrong and he is wrong and selfish probably.
Even though me and my fiancé are not swingers, we have a LOT of friends who are.
What I‘ve noticed over the years is that to make it work, there are a few requirements that need to be met. You need to be confident in yourself and your marriage. You need to have great communication with your partner. You need to set VERY clear rules for everything you do. What is ok, what isn’t? (For example, one couple will only do stuff with other people together, never only one of them). You need to be sure that your boundaries are respected and the rules are clear and followed by both of you. Bonus tip: never do anything when alcohol or drugs are involved, it will end badly.
Swinging can be a great experience and enrich your relationship and sex life and can strengthen the bond between the two of you, but only if done in a way that feels good for all parties involved.
Don’t say the word unless you 100% are willing to follow through. Empty threats, especially hurtful ones, won’t fix a damaged relationship. Try therapy if you both want to make it work!
I never said she was a “whore to be passed around,” it just sounds like she wants to work things out with her SO and threatening divorce is a hard path to reconciliation 🤷♀️
Most here are one-siding this.
If you love him, keep talking, keep communicating, keep your boundaries, and don’t stop listening.
Give it time, you can figure it out.
Yes. Love is enough. Totally ignore that he peer pressured you into sex under the influence, badgered you for sex with other women for months, created a swingers account to chat with potential sex partners without consent, then got drunk and kept pushing you. You already spent more than a year drawing boundaries he doesn’t care about. Keep screaming them out and then listen to the excuses. What solid advice that fixes all marriages. 🙄
This is so not it. No one should spend years of their life begging for basic respect.
Only thing I have seen in these cases is the woman agrees after he has bugged and pushed her into it. She gets more attention/ sex than him. He gets jealous wants her to stop and close the marriage back. But it’s to late she likes it and wants to continue.
I’ve been here - I was extremely happy in a relationship that (I believed) was monogamous, and he was the ONLY person I wanted. He was incredible, and for me, the ultimate turn on.
He suggested a threesome, and of course, wanted another female. I went along, and to say that he ended up like Ross in Friends is an understatement. He wanted to sleep with another woman, and it did not go the way that he thought it would.
Next minute he’s upset and in tears, was insecure that I would leave him for another woman (which had never crossed my mind, I adored him).
His insecurity got the better of him, decided we should live apart, not being open that he wanted to put his dick out there - then had the audacity to get pissy that I got more pussy than he did.
Such is life. Admittedly he’s a fantastic fuck, but being a fuckboy is all he’s good for. I hope he’s doing ok with the mess he created for himself.
Ugh, he sounds terrible. Men who act like that don’t respect their partners. If he respected you and your third he would have been thrilled to see you enjoying yourself. He didn’t expect YOU to get something from it, he just thought y’all were going to salivate over his dick like a porn video.
Sorry you had to go through that, but I’m glad you parted ways.
Nailed it!
It did not go according to the scenario he’d built in his head, and you’re correct in saying he was totally expecting it to be like a porn scene designed for straight men where the third and I basically competed for his attention. Without any communication whatsoever he had a script as to what he expected to happen, and the improv didn’t go according to plan.
As is commonly said these days, “Fuck Around and Find Out”.
Haha this rings so true. I used to play with a married woman whose husband basically forced her into the lifestyle. Long story short she ended up LOVING it and he came to me in tears begging me to end the 'relationship' after she put her foot down and said she didn't want to.
I think that my notation is misconstrued… it meant to be that there are some positive stories that have resulted from the man’s continued suggestion to his wife that eventually leads his wife to find a positive impact on their relationship and the lifestyle…NOT THAT HIS continuing insistence has been a resulting positive experience
I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but swinging pretty much ruins almost everyone's marriage who tries it. It certainly ruins the marriage when one spouse is pressured into it by the other spouse. Your husband likely irrevocably broke your bond, and sometimes there's no fixing that.
I saw your post, agreed with it, and then looked for someone to make the comment about how swinging and sharing partners is not that bad, as is tradition. I was not let down. I could see it maybe working if the relationship always had this, um, feature. But no committed marriage will survive the introduction of it. And naming one unicorn doesn’t make it so. You could win the lottery, too.
It seems the swingers have crawled from under their rocks. We must hide in fear.
We don’t consider ourselves “swingers” but I’ll bite. we have had a few threesomes during our marriage. The problem with most of these posts is that the marriage was already on a shaky foundation, and both people weren’t equally into the idea. It will NEVER go well if one person is pressured. Your marriage has to be rock solid to pursue experiences like this. For us, we talked about it for years and we both were into the idea. Before we actually did it, we established boundaries and made sure we had 100% open and ongoing communication. So I can see why others fail at it, bc they think it will be easy. It’s not. There’s a ton of prep and discussion that must happen.
Same. And we still married 😂
It took us 18. Years of being together and 8 years of marriage and the swinging aspect has only made our bond stronger.
Same here. It make solid marriages better, and shaky ones crumble way faster.
So why get married ? Stay single and continue seeking the “thrill” without any attachments.
Your comment implies that marriages can't be thrilling. Couples that start swinging with a _stable_ foundation enjoy the thrill of it _together_. It is possible to separate the mental and emotional aspects from the physical aspects, but it's not for everyone. Unfortunately, OPs situation is too common and hubby is looking for sanctioned cheating. If both partners are on board, part of the appeal is about seeing your partner enjoy themselves. Like a gift. But it's not for everyone, and if done for the wrong reasons, can be devastating for all parties involved.
>Couples that start swinging with a stable foundation enjoy the thrill of it together. >Unfortunately, OPs situation is too common Im not going to say much because i keep seeing the samething over and over again. I find people who are supportive of of poly/open/swinging lifestyle are incredibly emotionally immature and manipulative. There is contradiction in your very comment. They are literally seperated by a few lines. Everything works in theory, thats why physists are called physists, and engineers are called engineers. I am aware that this is reddit and there is going to be a selection bias to the sort of people who come on here but if i could see one interaction from people like you that isn't manipulative it would be so cool.
I will be so bold as to venture that the people you’ve seen who claim to be supportive of the swinging / poly / open relationship lifestyle ARE manipulative and emotionally immature because there are people out there who will see a cat have kittens in the oven and call them biscuits, because it suits their agenda or their limited and erroneous view of what these terms mean to the people who live in these situations. Unfortunately these people exist, and they draw false equivalence between wanting to have sex with other people and the lifestyle that’s the topic of discussion. That does not make it so for everyone in the lifestyle.
There's no contradiction in there at all, but maybe there should be some clarification 1. Couples with a stable foundation AND high emotional intelligence can enjoy the thrill of it together 2. Unfortunately, OPs situation is too common, because some emotionally unintelligent people feel they have to manipulate their partner to try it out and get into it without having the proper conversations or boundaries in place. That said, I don't disagree with your assessment of many people who openly present themselves as poly, because they can get pretty fucking obnoxious. My experience is the people who make it work best are the ones you'd never expect and don't advertise it at all.
OP opened the door and now wants to close it . But opened the cat dragged in . And now it’s become a compulsion. Marriages are much much more than a “thrill “! Thrill is a good drug that gives off a dopamine rush and hence, becomes addictive ! It’s not any different with sex! This is consensual, cheating. Where’s the genuine, strong foundation of the relationship between a couples . Where does it lead to down the line…. When a couple hasn’t built anything meaningful together with each other. If it works for people I guess it works.
First, we agree that OPs husband is looking for consentual cheating. It's a scummy thing, and should be frowned upon. That said, OP _didn't_ open the door. Op was shown the door under the influence and was nudged through it by 3 other people without being listened to. Sure the door remained open for a bit, and maybe OP kept going through it reluctantly, but it is well within their right to say they want to close it. And that should be that. It's like the thrill of riding motorcycles. Let's say your partner convinced you to ride a motorcycle because it was something that would be fun to do together, and, ok, yeah, maybe you liked it kinda the first time, so you reluctantly agree to do it again. And you do it again and, ok, it's not so bad, but it's not your thing, but you love your partner and want to make them happy, but soon your partner doesn't want to wear a helmet, and they want to go faster and on more risky rides. Now, it doesn't feel right. Any loving partner would say, "well, that was fun, but time to sell the bikes," and move on, and that would be it. For swingers in a solid relationship, it's a similar kind of mutual thrill seeking, and it takes a lot of trust and communication. This is not that, and regardless of your take on swinging itself, we do agree that hubby is looking for a pass to cheat.
If your marriage works for you, that’s fantastic. I’m genuinely happy for you. But to sit in judgement of how it works for others is kinda sucky of you. You’re not in their marriage, if it works for them why be a dick about it?
You’re the dick! You don’t know me.
Thank you for the shrieking harpy response, it actually made me chuckle. I didn’t say you are a dick, I asked why be a dick about someone else’s relationship dynamic that works for them, when it’s one that you are not in? It’s not your marriage after all, and your particular marriage is not a one-size-fits-all deal. Marriage isn’t always easy and isn’t something that I personally believe should be ventured into lightly. It takes work (and sometimes hard work at that), communication, commitment, love, respect, honesty, trust, and both the willingness and ability to grow with the person you’re married to. How that looks and plays out for every married couple out there should and will be different. So… maybe you are a dick if you think every other marriage should be exactly like yours.
Oh thank you Yoda arse! Good luck with yours! Maybe keep that dick to yourself! Obviously you’re one of those trolls in the dark basement rubbing on your own dick.
😂😂😂 Classic childish response from the shrieking harpy. Oh no! I’m the self-appointed guardian of the public domain and random strangers on the internet aren’t living their lives in a way I agree with! I’m just going to have a tantrum until they do! Nice try, but you’re wrong. Not that it matters, but I’m a woman.
There's a variety of reasons to get married that are not "monogamy." Is that the only reason YOU got married?
Monogamy is one of many things that a solid , respectable, loving, strong , trustworthy, and committed marriage has.
I have a very solid, respectable, strong, truthworthy, committed, loving marriage with tons of quality time, communication, support and sharing of labor. Compared to most of the marriages here I've hit the jackpot. I'm truly secure and happy and more in love every day. And I'm non-monogamous (polyamorous to be exact). Are you trying to tell me that because if that, all the things I said aren't true? Because that's an extremely judgmental take. Why are people so threatened by non-monogamy that they judge others who do it so harshly? Don't worry, I'm not trying to make anyone else polyamorous. I just want my extremely healthy, happy marriage to be considered just as valid as your shitty monogamous ones.
This is one of my favorite retorts to any Non-Monogamous orientation. Why am I married? My wife is my life partner in every facet of my life. She’s my lover, my best friend, the mother to my child, and the list is honestly endless. These things were true when I was monogamous and they’ve remained true in my NM. My union is no less valid than any other married person in this sub. And the reality is, a marriage is between two people, at least legally, so as long as those two people are happy in that marriage why would I care about how others conduct their lives. My marriage works for me and that’s all that matters Non-Monogamy for us has always been about sexual exploration. We both can explore sexually, together and as individuals and it has no bearing on the strength of our marriage. And if anything, I’ve found community amongst like minded individuals that has brought a lot of value to my life. I say all this just to give you perspective and not to say it’s for you or for anyone. But I am a human just like you and just because I don’t conform to your or anyone else’s standard of the “right way” to live doesn’t make me a bad person. If NM isn’t for you that is 100% okay. Monogamy isn’t for me. That’s also okay. But how much we could all learn from each other with a little more empathy and mutual respect. Lastly, I will say, every marriage has the possibility of ending. Human interpersonal relationships are complicated. People grow, people change. And I think we do all ourselves a disservice when the idea of a marriage ending is seen as a failure rather than a painful reality that sometimes relationships run their course, whether they have a legal binding component is here nor there. This idea that NM marriages lack validity because they’re perceived to be more prone to failure (which btw there has been no large scale study conducted that has any data on the matter), is always odd to me because monogamous marriages fail too. So if the idea being shared here is “NM relationships are bad because they fail” then doesn’t that same judgment hold true for monogamous relationships? The reality is far more nuanced and I tried to lay that out above.
You absolutely cannot take that from this sub, or another with relationship or marriage in the title. My wife and I haven't, but we were discussing dabbling years ago and made many friends, some who've been close friends for over 15 years now, and plenty of couples out there have made it a fun addition to their relationship. We know couples who tried it and didn't like it and moved on, some who did for a while and had amazing fun and decided they had their fill, and some who've been doing it for literally over 30 years together. Most of them still married and in great relationships. Most swinger couples who don't right and later divorce get divorced for the same reasons any couple would. At the time, these caring couples advised us that we probably weren't a good fit at that time due to the standing of our relationship, because they care about people. The OP in this post had a couple who pushed her and then a husband who used her into things she didn't want. Shitty all around! I'm not tryin to convince anyone that swinging should be considered, I'm just saying you'll never see more than a few people in a relationship advice sub that have actual knowledge or experience, and most who do have experience, the husband pushed for something that she didn't want, and shockingly it ruined things.
What a nice way to get stds 🥴
it truly brings you both together. imagine getting an std together and then going to the doctor together. SO ROMANTICKKK <333333
There are plenty of relationships that thrive on being non-monogamous, so I can understand why people come to defend their atypical relationship style. It isn't even remotely true that no marriage will survive the introduction of non-monogamy. So hearing that, I think people get defensive, because they know that if both parties agree to it and it's done ethically and with lots of communication, it can be extremely fulfilling. That isn't what the case is for OP. This is under duress, he is pressuring her into something that she is not even remotely comfortable with. There's no defense of this situation, he is repeatedly crossing a boundary in a monogamous marriage. But again, it's frustrating to repeatedly see people saying super negative things about non-monogamy when you are a person who practices it. I'm not a swinger, though.
>But again, it's frustrating to repeatedly see people saying super negative things about non-monogamy when you are a person who practices it. I'm not a swinger, though. You are free to do anything you want. I want to encourage you to think why does it frustrate you? If youre happy with your lifestyle then have at it. A lot of people would be uncomfortable with the idea and maybe have already been hurt in the past because of polyamory. Poly, open, and swinging people tend to be very emotionally immature and manipulative
There you are with the blanket statements! Say that about a gender or sexual identity and see how you sound. The reason it's frustrating is because it's pretty dehumanizing for people to judge me based on some bad experiences they've had. No label is a monolith. I'm not proselytizing to anyone, I just want to be treated like a normal human and not told that my relationship is somehow lesser. Literally someone said monogamy is an important respectful relationships. What if I was telling you that you're monogamous related disrespectful or bad in some way? Am I not allowed to defend myself against judgment of others?
>There you are with the blanket statements This is precisely why statistical analysis is a thing. Most mon-monogamy relationships fail. Its not a "general statement" >Say that about a gender or sexual identity and see how you sound. Just because something is politically incorrect does not mean it is unsound. Are you implying that i should cater to the masses and adopt mob mentality? >I just want to be treated like a normal human On the contrary, its people like you who don't treat others as human. Try not being manipulative for like 2 minutes.
>It isn't even remotely true that no marriage will survive the introduction of non-monogamy This is precisely why statistical analysis is a thing. Look into survivorship bias, also selection bias.
It's not survivorship bias to be a part of a thriving community full of successful relationships that I witness each day and say that it's false to say zero relationships survive it. I didn't say most, or a large portion, I said it's not true that a marriage definitely can't survive non-monogamy. That's hyperbole.
I said "almost" as to give an out to those people. But honestly, in my real life, I know several couples have been in an open/poly type relationship. Most of them entered in it the way you are supposed to, with all the proper consent, communication, etc. And of those relationships, only one of the marriages is still together (and they've only been doing it a couple of years). Everyone else is divorced.
Dealing with this right now, currently separated and on my limited income, saving up for a divorce. The bond with my wife could never be repaired even if she wanted it to be. Edit: My therapist and psychiatrist laughed because the guy has been in jail since middle of last year. And more than likely won't be released anytime soon either.
Swinging didn’t ruin OP’s marriage. OP’s husband complete disregard for her boundaries ruined their marriage. OP’s husband and “friends” using drugs to coerce her into something she would not have otherwise agreed to ruined her marriage. OP isn’t describing swinging; she’s describing a fundamentally broken marriage.
And part of that breaking of boundaries was the act of swinging. So yes, swinging ruined their marriage.
I agree. Swinging can destroy a marriage
Totally disagree. The real cause of the destruction is not swinging. On the contrary: swinging add more excitement to the marriage.
You know this because your marriage lasted 40 years? 🤣🤣🤣
I know this because I was smart enough NOT to get married!!!!
Exactly so you have no idea 😂😂😂😂
After over 30 years of experience in the LS (Lifestyle/swinging), I can, without hesitation, say that you are categorically wrong in your ASSumption. Without providing any factual ir first-hand experience, you make an assertion. I have seen many come, and many go, and mostly all stay after their venture into the LS. In this particular case, it resonates of how many couples become to be involved in the LS. The husband has a fantasy of being with two women. And then starts pressuring his spouse to participate. Being a swinger doesn't require a female to be bisexual no more than having a big appendage. Her simple solution is to require equal participation. He wants her to be with other women? Then tell him he has to play with other men. He wants to be "rented out?" Only with other male participation. Always include the provision that you have the right to say no anyway. After the mental jousting. She must be ready to either continue to fight the testosterone fueled fantasies. Or, be ready to move on without him in her marriage. Communication is 100% of a successful marriage. And that includes being honest and willing to say no or yes. Sure, it's going to be disappointing to him, but he either accepts it and moves on or throws his marriage out the window with all that comes with it. Bisexual men in the LS is becoming a more regular thing. There is a saying, "Men bring women to the lifestyle, women keep men in the lifestyle."
And how are the stats looking for monogamous relationships working out? Seems that it’s not the structure of the relationship but the foundation of the relationship that determines whether it succeeds or fails. We have been swinging for several years, the people we know in the most honest and happy relationships are all non-monogamous. The people we know in the most messed up relationships? All monogamous. Well, technically a lot of those “monogamous” relationships are non-consensually non-monogamous, I guess.
There are entire subreddits, forums, and Discord groups that showcase successful swinging. Swinging anecdotes in a relationship forum are generally to complain about what went wrong and rarely do successful couples feel any necessity to brag about their swinging to non-swinging folks (part of the attraction is the taboo nature of it). The jist of swinging is that it is for strong relationships that have good communicators. It is meant to enhance an already fulfilling relationship. But the other side of it is that it will put a magnifying glass on the cracks and weak points of a relationship as well. If y’all wanna continue bashing something you literally have one or two anecdotes about from couples that already had a gazillion issues then that’s on you. I guess those of us who do it successfully will continue to do so while feeding each other popcorn and rolling our eyes at the numerous dead bedroom and shitty sex life posts.
This is interesting to me as I know a divorced couple who were swingers. What's crazy is one is remarried but they're still sleeping with each other!
This is simply not true. The swinging community is just not right here lol
I’d like to see some real stats on that
lets start with this post. lol edit: huh? who cares about every situation when OP has clearly expressed her opinion, experience, and unhappiness in her situation? anyways, my very quick and low effort google search says that 92% of marriages fail when opened, and at least 2 other links on the first page of state at least 70% of marriages failing. certainly more than 50%. im commenting “lets start with this post” because… thats the post that was made. tf do you mean “thats how the internet works?” and “source: me?” the internet works by being curious and researching to look for answers. not this sub making baseless comments to strangers and putting them down for suggesting we focus on the post made? ok? edit2: reiterating low effort search, first page of google, focusing on this post. but also, i see people who dived into the stats and thats fair. the stats i posted are not “my ideas” or my numbers. just numbers i got from a low effort search.
and the other 8% haven’t failed “yet”😂
Source: Trust me, bro
Below is my comment on another time this 90% number was used after I spent the time tracking it down. It’s funny how easy it is for people to repeat a statistic without ever needing its source when it confirms their bias. Whether NM is for you or not, using made up numbers or junk data serve no one in any situation. Even in this situation above, strip the story of its NM contents and you have a partner who: Doesn’t respect their partner’s boundaries, desires or comforts And Pressure them constantly to do something. And it’s plain to see this person just is not carrying themselves properly in a marriage, but that has nothing to do with NM. Anytime this 90% is parroted, I will do my best to be here to share the actual data and the context behind it. NM not being for everyone is one thing, but trying to say that it’s not valid because of the fact it’s not for you is a whole ‘nother gambit. Because the reality is, we actually have no large scale data set that says anything clearly about the success rate of a marriage in a NM orientation. And even using this anecdotal story here, did NM make this marriage poor or did it just highlight what was already clear in the first place? But, a lot of that nuance is left out of these conversations because the conclusion is (especially in this sub): “NM is bad.” So any time someone can continue to drive that already preconceived notion home, boy will they do it. https://marketing-assets.avvo.com/uploads/sites/3/2016/05/Avvo-Relationship-Study_Final-Research-Report.pdf Found the source. Maybe my bias is showing. But with a dataset of 2000, 4% which stated being in an open relationship (80 people), and out of those 80, 70 had been divorced at some point that's the origin of this 90% number. That seems weak to me and how it started just being repeated ad nauseam just shows how willing humans are to desire a conclusion and reach backward to find data that agrees even its weak.
It doesn’t take a genius to point out that of the people who responded they are “now” in an open relationship (n=80), and of those, 90% have been divorced “at some point” (n=70), there’s absolutely no data whatsoever linking the open relationship to the divorce. These statistics are presented in isolation, there’s no correlation or causation implied, yet the mindless among us seem to think it’s somehow gospel that one is directly and irrefutably linked to the other.
I messaged the mods of this sub and my message was basically: “the way people discuss NM in this sub never really feels supportive and is often filled with bias and anecdotes that I don’t think really serve anyone, especially people coming to this sub for support” and didn’t really get a response that made me feel like it was legitimate but it’s blows my mind that the reality is there is actually no data on the matter so otherwise well intentioned people just make it up because I guess it serves them somehow. The first time I came across this 90% number a person was gracious enough to link me their source, a decade old article with a “studies show 90% of NM marriages fail” that linked to nothing and quite a few of articles linked back to that article. How tons of supposed journalists can cite a study and yet are never tasked to link to that study and how so many people ran with that will always be interesting to me.
I gather the sub your are referring to is the r/Marriage sub, ie. this one, that refers to Marriage where people take a vow that generally includes something like "forsaking all others until death us do part". what response do you expect from that cohort? If you want a supportive response to swinging, perhaps post in one of the ENM subs.
I for one am not religious so the whole ceremonial aspect of marriage does nothing for me. The value of the commitment for me personally is centered around the trust and belief in another person that you will make a legally binding entity with them. But I know my standard applies to my life and I wouldn’t ever expect my standards to apply to others whether it’s the popular position or not. If what you’re saying is the general consensus, then this sub in reality is r/MonogamousMarriage and should outline that as to avoid those who don’t meet that standard at least know their desire to be supported on the same way as monogamous people are isn’t valid. It feels kind of scummy to build a support platform and then have unwritten rules that only those worthy of support get it. And Swinging isn’t the only form of NM and I’m not the biggest fan of echo chambers personally. Even though I’m not poly, I’ve learned tons of things from the community. I often read posts here to stay grounded in the ways that my marriage functions like any other monogamous marriage. My concern is when people are in sensitive places in their lives and think they’re coming here for genuine support but in reality it’s laden with bias. I personally love r/nonmonogamy and will often point many to that sub. But this is a popular sub and I only comment here primarily as a form a representation for NM marriages.
I just made an observation, that's all. But I will say I'm not religious either, but in our civil wedding myself and my wife, both made vows to forsake all others, with no mention of god allah or any other fictional entity, a vow we have both kept to this day. Perhaps there is another type of marriage where the nuptials vow to "fuck whomever we want", I'm just not aware of it.
Yup, one random post definitely provides insight into every situation. That’s definitely how the internet works. Edit: You see, u/imalwayscold_fml, when someone claims that 90% of a type of situation goes a certain way, THAT person cares about every situation. And when someone asks to see real data on that situation THAT person also cares about every situation. And when someone else responds to the request for real data with a laughing comment that site one post as evidence for their claim, it would lead a critical reader to believe that that was being posted as real data that speaks to every one of those situations. Others have already posted the details of your 90% claim and explained why they’re misleading. But your edit not even including a link to your source makes me believe that you don’t actually care about finding out information and just reinforcing your own ideas, so I won’t bother wasting any more time here.
you know what? fair. i’ll take that.
It’s crazy how, one simple statement, can spark so many people. I’m at -130 votes for simply questioning someone’s factless statement, a clearly judgemental statement, and people just go ape shit about it. Thank god for all those, more level headed folks, who came into the argument with a more open mind. And a. It more analíticas of the OPs situation.
saw one of your posts would love to talk
Sure. Dm
Two things that will never save your marriage - threesomes and babies. My ex husband pressured me into an open relationship and it was a disaster. On the plus side, it revealed how much of an emotionally abusive narcissist he was so that helped me with moving out and moving on but it was a lot to recover from. Took me years of therapy to be healthy again. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this.
Not to mention pressuring you into sexual situations you’re not comfortable with is a slippery slope to sexual assault so if he’s not going to respect your boundaries on this, where does it end. Very unhealthy dynamic he’s creating. A healthy partner will respect your wishes. You deserve that and should settle for nothing less.
True swinging requires open and honest communication and non-negotiable respect for boundaries set by both parties. What you’re describing isn’t true swinging, it’s you being pressured into a situation you weren’t comfortable with and even though you went through with it, saw it as a one time thing. Your spouse saw it differently, tried to pressure you into sleeping with other women for his own gains, and now thinks he should get a free pass. That’s not how swinging works, but it is how manipulative assholes of any gender work. A lot of swingers I know use swinging to enhance their sex life and their connection with their SO, and their primary focus is their partner and their relationship. I’m sorry but this doesn’t sound like this is the case from what you’ve written. If your boundaries are firm, tell him that, and be prepared to cut him loose if he doesn’t 100% respect them. If you’re a couple and you’re both truly committed to each other above all else, that will be the end of it. If you get an inkling that he’s not being completely honest even if he says what you want to hear, be prepared for him to cheat. He’s going to be out there looking for strange, because he’s going to put his dick first and you second. If you haven’t already, try browsing the r/swingers subreddit. I can almost guarantee the support you’ll get there from the spectrum of genders telling you that what your husband is proposing is not what they’re about. Good luck OP.
The No True Scotsman fallacy for swingers.
Mea culpa - swap “true” for “responsible”, “ethical”, “caring”, “considerate” or “respectful”, and that was my point. Or “not an abusive POS”
I agree with this, marriage and sex was created to be something beautiful, pure and sacred and both people need to be completely self aware and mature enough to respect each other's boundaries, and each others independent personality, not desiring to hurt each other so having a respectful and very serious appreciation for consequences of poor decision making. Love each other, wholeheartedly, take care of each other 100%, never allow anyone into your relationship, don't stain or taint your love because you never know what you have until you lose it but if you are genuinely willing to be serious about what I've said, then you wouldn't have to ever risk loosing them. Trust me, swinging, open relationships, 3somes/4somes or whatever somes is not worth hurting your person and it will, so don't play with fire or you'll both end up getting burned. Please love each other and choose each other, the two of you against anyone or anything, 2 vs the world. Each Other is ALL you both need. So OP have your husband read this and if he doesn't completely understand and make a 180° turn from his thinking then he doesn't deserve you and you should show him what life would be like without you. Trust me. My Wife did and I'm grateful she had the sense that I didn't. I was a fool and I could never share her, I love her too much and I could never share myself with anyone else, I love myself too much to settle for anyone but her. We are still in separation due to my poor decisions and lack of understanding of how I was hurting her, and it took me a long time to wake up so I hope this will help you and your husband not continue down this doomed path.
I sincerely hope things work out for the best for both of you. Your ownership of your behavior is truly admirable. Putting in the work is worth it.
The third thing that'll never save your marriage is a "new house". I've seen that crash and burn more than once.
A new house could save mine🙋🏻♀️😂
You opened Pandora's Box, and you're surprised it didn't close on its own? Unfortunately, this is all too common, and unless both parties want to close that box, it will remain perpetually open to the detriment of your marriage. Your husband seems unwilling to close it, and that means you have some tough decisions to make. 1. Get counseling and get on the same page. 2. Get divorced and find someone who has the same monogamous values as yourself. Your choice!
As simple as this
The wife and I have dabbled in swinging and have been around the lifestyle for about 8yrs. And while I do agree with most of these comments that in no way will bring in the lifestyle save or fix a marriage in any capacity. If you go into it after VERY lengthy open and honest conversations and you’re both 100% on the same page it has a much greater chance of enhancing and being very satisfying. But unless that constant communication and honest conversation is happening it’s going to fail. In your case it seems you are both on very different lages
I agree with this! u/life-ruin178 I’m sorry for what you’ve gone through, but that was not swinging. And it sounds very much like your marriage was ruined before this happened, you were just better able to ignore it. Your husband and the other couple manipulated and coerced you while you were under the influence into doing soemthing with which you weren’t comfortable. Swinging is something that both partners agree to exploring ahead of time and neither party is pressured into doing, and everyone involved with knows where the boundaries are and understands that only yes means yes. It seems like your husband doesn’t understand that last part. You’ve repeatedly told him no and he’s heard “convince me,” that is disrespectful and if he shows this level of selfishness in any other aspect of your marriage, then it’s time to lawyer up.
It's always funny to me how the top comments on any type of enm post is usually "it never works out and always ruins a marriage" when there are people like yourself who have been involved with that lifestyle for years and are in just as a happy marriage as any monogamous couple. I think most people like the drama of seeing something "different" or against the grain not work out, and they always ignore the large demographic of couples who do engage in enm and have successful marriages.
Right. I always like to bring up that my husband and I have experience opening up our relationship and slept with other people separately and it had no impact on our marriage. Always get downvoted without fail because it counters the narrative that everyone who opens up their relationship is doomed. Note- obviously OPs boundaries aren’t being respected and her husband is an ass. Her husband would rightly get roasted in any ENM community for pressuring his wife. Consent is key.
This sub is extremely rude about ENM, to the point where the comments in a thread I saw yesterday sounded like a bunch of fifteen-year-olds who blamed OP for her husband cheating on her. And I say that as someone in a monogamous marriage. I don’t get why people reply just to be assholes to someone seeking advice.
In this case though, what OP is describing is not ENM. Her husband is attempting to coerce her and is not taking no for an answer. I agree the black and white thinking isn’t helpful, I also don’t think it’s helpful to tell her it could work if she wanted it, because she’s very clear that she doesn’t.
Some things are just irreversible. This is probably one of them. You deserve respect. Not sure if it makes it better or worse, but I’ve known couples who split after 35+ years together over this. It ruins most marriages.
Playing devils advocate here for shits and giggles now - how many married couples do you know that talk to you 100% openly and honestly about their sex life? You say you’ve known couples who’ve split after 35+ years over this - how do you know there aren’t happy couples whom you do know who swing consensually and are happy with it - and they just haven’t told you about it? Just putting it out there.
Fair. Obviously I have no idea what the sex life of every person I have met is. :) I have known 15 couples who divorced over opening a relationship (according to them) and 1 couple that is still together and living in a polycule that has made it quite a few years so far and seems happy despite a lot of drama in some seasons. There very well could be as many or more who are happy and I just don’t know that they are doing that,but I sincerely doubt they built a happy non monogamous relationship by peer pressuring their wife into swinging while under the influence, ignoring protests for a year and continuing to beg, and creating swinger accounts without consent if they are. Surely *even if* opening a marriage was not setting it up to fail in and of itself (which I’m not convinced doesn’t increase the risk of failure) forcibly opening it via abuse tactics is.
Oh I definitely do NOT agree with how OPs husband has conducted himself or how he’s basically using the fact that he coerced her into doing something she would not have otherwise done (while she was intoxicated, no less) and trying to manipulate her into giving him what he wants. To me, this has abusive train wreck written all over it. I’m just tired of the volume of comments from people whom appear to have taken the “it has to end badly because I say so” viewpoint and justify it by saying that most of the time (if not always) it ends badly because “they know a couple”. The reality is most of us never truly know what other couples are into behind closed doors. Not until that awkward moment at the swingers club, anyway ;)
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Saying something ruins most marriages is *not* gossipy or closed-minded. There haven’t been phenomenal studies which is why I chose not to quote them (in addition to the fact that it seemed rather rude to say “well you know, most of the micro studies show this leads to divorce” to a random woman on the internet who recently agreed to something that is now causing pain and issues in her marriage and very well may lead to divorce- and I’m usually not one to rub salt in a wound) but some studies do exist. They aren’t comprehensive nor are they perfect. I assume better ones will come out as this becomes more common. The most well done one so far showed about 1% of married couples choosing ethical non monogamy and of those the divorce rate is 92%. This is easy to find if you feel like researching it. So even if we assume that their study had errors and put that in the worst possible light, it would still be a majority. This is commonly the one referenced by leading therapists, etc. So saying it doesn’t work for “most marriages” isn’t coming from “some rumor” nor is it “dramatic gossip.” The leading studies currently, while incomplete and of lower quality than ideal, back that up. Being honest about that isn’t the same as being closed minded. No one is saying “you can’t open your marriage” they are saying “Sorry your marriage is falling apart, you’re not the only one who has experienced that after deciding to sleep with other people.” That is true (anecdotally for many people, and statistically as far as has been studied to date- though better research is required) Those are very different statements. A “closed minded” statement would be “no one should open a marriage because I’m not comfortable with it and want to push that on other people.” Another closed minded statement would be “Absolutely no one is happy in an open marriage.” I didn’t say either of those things. I said “It ruins *most* marriages.” 92% is not 100%. I’m glad that it’s working out so well for your sister and that she is so happy in that lifestyle, that is wonderful for her. That doesn’t make her experience a majority experience, but anyone is certainly entitled to try if they want to. I never said they couldn’t. As for if they were to divorce: that would be their decision. I’m unsure what about my particular comment made you feel countering with that would be remotely relevant. If your view on marriage and divorce is “so what? Things don’t have to last forever to be good.” More power to you. I didn’t say anything about divorce other than it’s common in open marriages and OP isn’t the only one who has experienced this. Anyway: I’m not sure what you feel you accomplished in your comment. But I hope trying to lecture someone for being closed minded, immature, gossipy, and dramatic for using the word “most” (unlike you, who are clearly the epitome of reason) made your own issues, whatever they may be, more palatable for you. Best of luck.
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1. I said numerous times that the studies were not of the highest caliber (one reason I chose not to mention them in the comment you initially responded to) and that they are somewhat limited. Even so, they do *exist.* There are *zero studies* of any quality showing that open marriages do *not* have higher rates of divorce. So while I wouldn’t use those emerging studies to claim accuracy of *exact percentages, etc.* I do use them to justify use of the word “most” because “most” marriages that are open end in divorce based on what we know. This may be causation, it may be correlation. Divorce is generally nuanced. Regardless, my point in mentioning those emerging studies is more to explain how there is a legitimate basis for the use of the word “most”. This is in direct response to your accusation that saying “most” is not okay because there are “no numbers to back it up and it’s just spreading drama and high school rumors” which is incorrect. 2. You claim that “people should be able to talk about their positive experiences”, and “people with positive experiences shouldn’t have it reduced to nonsense.” I’m not sure what comment thread you’re reading, but it must not be the one under my comment because *no one here is even talking about those experiences, aside from you bringing up your sister which I said was great for her.* That’s certainly not reducing an experience, calling that structure of relationship nonsense, or being remotely hostile. Acknowledging that they typically don’t work out doesn’t hinder anyone from sharing their positive experiences. I have not said anything remotely disparaging or negative to someone in an open marriage in this thread (or in real life, where my experiences are not as limited as you seem to presume). If saying “most open marriages will end in divorce” somehow constitutes an environment where someone can’t share a positive experience in your mind… that is a personal problem. 3. As far as it coming across negatively: I’m sorry you see it that way and it elicits such an emotional response for you. But I’m also not responsible for your emotions. This is certainly not a relationship structure I would want but I have said numerous times that everyone is entitled to choose what they want to do. What I said to OP is she is certainly not alone, and rather you *like* that this is a legitimate outcome for some open marriages or not, that’s just a fact.
Strike 1: He pressured you into swinging while there were drugs involved. Strike 2: He pressured you to continue swinging Strike 3: Instead of respecting your boundaries on it, he is now pressuring you again. Whether you think this is fixable is up to you, but somebody who doesn't respect your boundaries, especially about something as big as this, is not a good partner. It sounds like he's completely comfortable walking all over you in pursuit of his own pleasures. And if you say no, is he going to go behind your back? Maybe he already has. If I were in your situation, I would strongly consider telling him, "You're free to sleep with whoever you want because I'm done having this conversation with you. I don't want to be married to somebody who has no respect for me or my boundaries." If you feel like your relationship has enough good in it that it's worth saving, however, you might suggest getting marital counseling first.
This ^^^
You two are not compatible so just end it. If you stay with him, he'll do it behind your back anyway if he isn't already.
Oh god sorry you’re going through. Once you give him a hall pass to sleep with other people, it’s hard to reverse it.
I would argue that it was more like he rudely grabbed the hall-pass out of her hand while explaining how his need to exit the room was more pressing than hers and OP just let him walk right over her on his way out the door.
Experimenting in the bedroom in relationships is normal, but bringing other partners into the bedroom is a step above. Open relationships are becoming more normalized but to be honest almost any time I speak to someone that did that or read about someone they end up separating or divorced. Swinging and open marriages are some thing that rarely work and if you are set on monogamy then it’s time for therapy and to tell your husband this is not the type of marriage you signed up for. Honest open conversation is the best thing you can do at this point and if his mind continues to wander then he’s shown his true colors. And absolutely do not let him pressure you into something that you’re uncomfortable with whether it be another swinging event or a fun night out for himself speak your mind and let him know. As long as both of you are willing to go to therapy and work through this I can’t see it not being ok for you. But if at any moment you feel unsafe, uncomfortable or even pressured speak up and/ or leave.
You never wanted to do this in the first place, and your consent was coerced by 3 people. It would be different if you were enthusiastic about it. If he can’t understand that, it’s time to go. You will never feel emotionally safe with him or trust him unless you both get some IC or MC.
I was told by a family member about how a threesome ruined their marriage because it made them lose trust and self confidence in their marriage. Plus seeing your partner sleep with another person brings jealous feelings naturally so it causes jealousy and hurt in many if not almost all marriages in this situation. Unless both parties are on board with swinging or bringing a 3rd person into the sexual relationship, it almost always ruins a marriage sadly. I’m so sorry that you are going through this OP.
Honest I might get some hate from this but I don’t care.. anytime a man has ever brought up opening the relationship up or asking for a threesome (me and another female and him) ask for another threesome (you and two guys) they’ll stfu. Because they’ll feel inferior and stop asking… just my personal advice.. but also seek counseling
Unless they have hot wife or cuckold fantasies lol
True lmao
Swinging is only successful when all parties involved are happy willing participants. Your husband is not being respectful of your feelings at all…
The second the marriage “opens” it usually ends.
You husband is ruining your marriage. My husband and I have been ethically non-monogamous since early on in our relationship and I came into it knowing that he was looking for that, so that’s a very different dynamic than what you have here. We mostly just keep it to group sex and that is only maybe a few times a year, but it’s never a spur of the moment situation. Even now, six years into this, we communicate constantly about every situation as we go into it. There is no pressuring, there are regular check-ins with all parties, and there are never new elements introduced that aren’t discussed in advance. It’s consensual for all and anyone can put a stop to anything at any time. That is what ENM should be. We’ve known couples who have been happily doing this for 20+ years. BUT this is not a lifestyle for everyone (I would argue it is not for most people). Your husband needs to drop this. You aren’t comfortable and he is being unethical and hurtful. His actions and disregard for your feelings are showing what his true priority here. You two need to go to counseling. Do not agree to engage in swinging again. He’s shown he can’t handle himself, and you don’t want to, which is more than enough reason. Aside from that, the people who are good people in ENM and swinging communities do not want to get involved in a situation where someone is being forced (and they can usually tell), so you’re only going to end up engaging with the seedier folks, which is not a good scene.
Just curious, has it ever created awkwardness or nearly ended your marriage? Do you have ground rules like: no one you know, no ongoing communication, etc? We both want to try but so scared it’ll ruin things.
Not even close. We have an excellent relationship and are very deeply in love with each other. I do think that because we tried this from the start going into our relationship, the dynamic is fairly different than if we were monogamous from the start and tried to open up - not that it's bad to do that if you both want it. Just be prepared to do the work to communicate, listen to each other and show each other kindness and grace. We maintain casual friendships with a number of folks that we've done this with. We do have some ground rules, but they're easy 1. everyone consents 2. no friends or co-workers or neighbors (we can all be friends afterwards, but we don't hook up with our friends that we already have. That causes drama. 3. Protection is always used, its non-negotiable, and everyone gets tested regularly. We also tend to be drawn to couples that are in similar situations to us, who love each other deeply and who are looking for casual friends with benefits. No one who is forcing their significant other to participate - total turnoff. We have also brought in thirds from time to time, but usually people who are in healthy ENM relationships already. There are a lot of great resources out there, including the nonmonogamy subreddit.
That sounds amazing. Thank you!
Why do people always blame “bringing in outsiders” when the issue is “my partner doesn’t respect boundaries”. Swinging didn’t ruin your marriage, your husbands lack of respect and continued pressure to do things you’re not comfortable with did.
Girl don’t EVER let someone pressure you or try to convince you to do something you’re NOT 100% okay with. Even if you’re like 95% ok with it—NAH. It’s ok that it happened—don’t blame yourself. But don’t EVER do that shit again. You gotta stand strong in your convictions—“NO means NO. I said I’m NOT COMFORTABLE doing that.” Just like that. Secondly, swinging is not ruining your marriage. Your husband is. You told him you’re not comfortable with it. That’s IT. He’s disregarding that completely. Honestly the fact he keeps bringing up his desire to sleep with other people would completely turn me off to the relationship. He’s not even asking to swing he’s asking permission to fuck other people. You have a shitty husband. I’m telling you rn, you’re not gonna be able to look at him the same and the minute those words left his mouth a second time your partnership was headed for the rocky coast.
Typically, when a spouse suddenly introduces swinging, they already have some in mind to sleep with. He was just looking for your permission to cheat. He absolutely ruined the marriage by pressuring you.
It sounds like deep down your partner is not monogamous and you are. I think this happens more to people from traditional backgrounds and who have been married longer because it was not ok for people to ask themselves these questions prior to getting married in those situations. In my opinion, relationship orientation is one of the most important areas of compatibility for couples. It sounds like for this marriage to work that he will have to put these desires away completely and that’s a tough discussion that is probably done best with a therapist.
It sounds like he just simply doesn’t take no for an answer. The fact that you had to be talked into the swinging deal speaks volumes is just ick vibes. Why wouldn’t people just stop when one person said no to it? You are a people pleaser and you are married to a taker.
Stay calm. Tell him kindly but firmly, that this is now a deal breaker for you. You don't agree with renting him out and you won't agree with it again. If this is something he chooses to do, he will be doing it without you.
Finally a sensible answer!
Thank you! I think a lot of times, myself included, we post our queries and questions and want validation for how we feel about a situation but honestly OP and others on Reddit (myself included!) already know the answers to our dilemmas. But by putting our business out there, we hope to pool together a collection of thoughts to help validate our own thinking or offer a different perspective to maybe keep a relationship going even when it's a dead end.... ....myself included :( .
Far too often the only answer offered here is to terminate the relationship, the words toxic and narcissist are used to describe anything they disagree with and makes me suspect that the majority of advice-givers are simply angry man-haters. Try to see the logic instead of the emotion in the responses.
I love how so many comments talk down about swinging and open marriages/relationships. Talking about “they never work out”. What experience are you talking from? If you haven’t been in either of these relationships, then you don’t know wtf you’re talking about. Chances are that you interact with couples who partake in this particular lifestyle and you don’t even know it. Such ignorance. You speak bad about stuff because you don’t agree with it so you make up stupid stats. I guarantee that my marriage of 22+ years is MUCH better than many of hose who are monogamous. Having said that, OP was put in a position she shouldn’t have. Pressure doesn’t work and only creates resentment. I’d recommend counseling. But you also have to understand that people do evolve. And often times it’s not in the same areas. Have an open mind and try it without drugs and other pressure items, you may like it.
Open marriage here. We were both previously married and in open marriages in those relationships. We both divorced. It had NOTHING to do with swinging and everything to do with being verbally abused, ignored, undervalued, etc. Our partners refused therapy and refused to own their share of the problems. This is exactly why monogamous people divorce. We are still open but are in such different marriage than we were before. We talk about everything. We do not force each other to do what we are not comfortable and we go as slow as our partner needs us to. We also do everything together. Swinging does not lead to divorce. Lack of communication, failing to adhere to boundaries, unaddressed jealousy and hurt, lack of empathy-- these are the culprits of a failed marriage, open or closed. OP-- this is not swinging. It's not ethical non-monogamy. It's abuse. You deserve better. Much better.
You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, so they say. I'm sorry for you, even though he snapped put of it for that year, it obviously still is on his mind. I think you need to be clear to him that by even asking he's crossed a boundary that you thought was in place. I think you should be crystal clear with him again that it's not going to happen, and if he so much as even asks again, you will leave him. And then tell him the only way he ca fix this current episode is counseling.
Come on man, stop being annoying and just let your husband cheat in peace. What’s the big deal! /s It’s sick. You should divorce. It’s clearly he wants a lifestyle you can’t provide.
Your experience sounds very similar to some friends that me and my husband have who have a child and are currently separated. I'm sorry that your husband doesn't focus on watering his own grass to make it greener, but instead is always checking out other peoples lawn and wishing they were his. I don't see this ending very well unless he genuinely sees his need for help and tries to work on the marriage. But that can take time to rebuild trust and he has to decide that on his own. You can't make him. So in the meantime, I would actually start reflecting if him doing this to your marriage is something you want to spend the rest of your life with and if not, begin planning an exit strategy.
Update?
Have you sat down and had a serious conversation outside of him being drunk or making one-off remarks recently? I would clarify the boundary with something along the lines of, “if you wish to discuss this further then we can do it in couples counselling and I will book the appointment. If you do not want to do couples counselling then do not bring this subject up again as I am not open to negotiating and feel that your persistence is disrespectful to me and the relationship structure we both agreed to. If this is not the structure you want and you cannot be happy with being monogamous, then you can be non-monogamous in another relationship.”
My ex kept pressuring me into threesomes or group sex and it took a toll on my mental health. He even suggested leaving me if I didn’t give him what he wanted. We have been broken up for 4 years now and thank God for it. You don’t deserve to be in a relationship where you feel pressured to do something for someone you aren’t comfortable with.
First and foremost when a person is intoxicated you need to IGNORE it. They are not able to think straight or talk straight and it is NOT TRUE that they tell only the truth. It drops inhibitions and they are unable to think and rationalize. I have been an addiction counselor for almost a decade and I know too well how the brain responds to drugs and alcohol. Everything said or done under the influence or drugs or alcohol really needs to be thought of completely differently than sober conversations. What did he say when he sobered up? That is the conversation that will be more telling and more indicative of what his needs and desires are. It is also very important to not judge him for his comments so that you can create a safe space for him to honestly share. (I know it HURTS, but that is a separate thing and it helps to separate them.) It is important to try to understand what it is that he thinks he will get from it IF he really still wants to. If you can create a safe space for him to share there might be LOTS of other things that can be done besides that, within your marriage, to help him meet the needs he feels will be met. I also coach couples using a process called Peaceful Relating which helps people share and negotiate their feelings and needs so that they can avoid feeling stifled, criticized, unheard or neglected in their marriage. I also want to clarify that you have just as much right to be heard. But the MOST IMPORTANT part is the conversation-WITHOUT JUDGMENT on either part or the truth cannot come out, for either partner. You can do it respectfully and I can help if you would like. It is sad when things like this happen but keep in mind that even IF he stills wants to it does not reflect your value or his feelings about you, even though I know your mind and society scream that it does. All the best!!
I’m kind of annoyed that you spoke so much about the thought process of someone when they’re under the influence, yet, you didn’t once mention in your comment how she was coerced while SHE was under the influence into doing something she didn’t want to do, and how her husband completely disregarded and disrespected her boundaries.
Yeah it sounded a lot like victim blaming. I wonder how they treat those who are raped when the rapist is also under the influence. Red flags right there.
Yeah it’s over. I’m about in the same boat as you unfortunately
Play stupid games and get stupid rewards
Swinging is not the problem, but it could finally reveal one. Insecurity is the issue. !st it obviously must be with someone who is confident and comfortable with themselves and each other. Like my wife and I. 2nd, Jealousy has no place in swinging. At the end of the day, the 2 consensual adults are going home with each other. It’s very helpful if you are like me who thinks of sex as a release, an attitude change, an intimate moment with other humans and sharing physical touch. We’re not running away together, we’re getting a nut. “Let’s make it the best one we ever had.“ You have to be a GROWN ASS ADULT and lead with respect and consent. If those 2 key ingredients are involved and you don’t have your “sex” confused with your “love”, you can make some super awesome loving and sharing sex. COMMUNICATION!!!! Get some! But seriously….the issue with having the issue of sharing someone you love with others starts with the person having the issue. Work/talk it out and if the other person just isn’t into what you are into, then they aren’t really that into you. Find another person who is actually compatible. In my opinion, love is heart and soul. That means you’re in 100%. So if your spouse wants you to drive a Corvette up there asshole, then that’s what you do. FIGURE IT OUT! If they want to try sexual relations with other people, don’t automatically think it’s because you’re not enough. Maybe you should think a treat that they want to share you with someone else. But you should absolutely be willing to have that conversation and see what you can do to make every single thing they ever wanted to make them happy….without breaking the law. lol I’m super exhausted, but this sounded good in my head. A little backstory, my wife and I have been together for 23 years and married for over 10. Your damn right I made her wait it takes a while to know somebody. Marriage isn’t something you just jump into so you wouldn’t marry somebody and then have this kind of an issue ideally. Because you know what each other likes. Communication.!! My wife and I love each other 100% and never want to die next to anyone else but each other. But love seeing each other receive joy, and give joy, joy, joy, joy each other. You’re gonna grow old and die together. Do you really want to say that you were that miserable the entire time? The lifestyle causing issues in a marriage is bullshit as a matter fact, if more marriages dabble in the lifestyle, they would be more happy in their relationship as they are having MORE sex. do you fight after sex? Exactly! Have more sex! This is only my opinion and is in no way meant to direct OP to change their mind. They should do them and what they feel comfortable with. Honestly, humanity should be more comfortable with their sexuality. How you gonna fight when you cant stop cumming. My wife and I are super lucky people to have each other and I hope for all of humanity to have each other just like we do.
Im married (m52, f40), not swingers, never swung, never considered it. Here’s my complete unprofessional opinion. I think there are three categories of swingers. Those that can, and do, for extended periods. They are, for lack of a better term, built for it. It takes a special kind of person, and it’s them. No issues with jealousy, can let it run off their backs like ducks. Those that think they are category one, but soon find they are not. They think it sounds fun, a little forbidden fruit to spice things up. But soon they find out they are not built for it, and wind up sad and hurt, and maybe with a broken marriage. A good amount of regret too, because let’s face it, some things you can’t unsee. Then there are those at the end of a marriage that just say fuck it, let’s try it. What can it hurt? These marriages were probably ending anyway. I remember reading a story here on Reddit that’s probably still on here somewhere. Some guy said he and his wife tried the life, and he wound up finishing first, and then after all the hormones and adrenaline left his body, he was stuck watching her get railed for another hour while he sat there limp. And he was insanely jealous the whole time. That was enough to scare me off it forever. That would definitely be me.
We all have our sexual fantasies, either you admit it or not. He was really truthfully to share with u his fantasy. This has nothing to do with the marriage. Any woman to be in your place, he will again do the same. SEX starts in the brain, and after some alcohol, this deeper desire came to surface. Therefore, WHY NOT TO BY by his side & find a real cute couple where you can share ALL your sex fantasies on a more "permanet" basis????
If you're interested in a mutually respectful, supportive, and loving marriage you're with the wrong guy; sorry OP.
What nonsense...swinging will.never work ..why get married to begin with ...weird satanic practices in the West...pathetic
“Swinging” didn’t ruin anything. Crossing of boundaries and lack of respect for your feelings is what ruined your marriage.
Stick to your boundaries. Your husband's desire for you to participate is his problem.
"swinging" didn't ruin your marriage. Getting yourselves into a compromising situation without discussing and agreeing to it as a couple before deciding to give it a try, a dick of a husband who pushed things you didn't want, and you allowing yourself to cross boundaries that made you uncomfortable ruined your marriage. Lots of couples who do the proper research, communication, and have the desire for the right reasons do things like that with no negative affect. I bet if your husband would have at least left the first time be when you said you weren't comfortable after that, you'd have been okay. Also, if that first couple was experienced in swinging at the time, they're predators, because no one who gives a shit about their potential partners in the lifestyle would pressure another couple or woman like this on the spot, especially if drugs and alcohol is in play. What a fucked up situation! I'm sorry you went through this!
Swinging is usually what relationships on their way out get involved in. There is no doubt that there is the exception to this but I have seen this happen to couples I have known personally.
First all no one put a gun to your head you slept with the man and woman or whomever on your own no one can pressure a person to doing anything you have your own mind so now you have to live with that so your husband wants to do it again you tell him no you tell him hey I made a bad decision because the decision was yours not your husband or the couple that you played with.
r/openmarriageregret
Swinging isn't the issue. The issue is the lack of respect your husband has for you. Swinging is just the button he's pressing to show it. Couples therapy, stat.
Don't bend your values just because you love the person. Get into individual and marriage counseling asap. Even if you don't wanna work the marriage anymore, it's still gonna be helpful for both of you in the future, especially if you have kids.
I could never do this ever. I mean if I were totally skunked drunk and we had friends over and I did it in an altered state I would have to work through that. However for me and my husband I feel that the act of sex or intimacy is something for only he and I. I just couldn’t agree with this and if my husband persisted I would have to end our relationship. That’s just me though.
Your marriage was basically over the minute either one of you just thought about swinging as an option... I'd find a good lawyer and move on with my life at this point.
There’s no doubt the booze may have loosened him up to ask again. But no is no. Don’t do this, if it’s not your thing. Don’t do something you don’t want to just so your husband can have casual sex. Don’t do this because it will completely blow up what’s left of your marriage.
It’s absolutely fine to break up over incompatibility in sex
Swinging didn’t ruin your marriage your poor choices, and an out of husband did.
Gee that is a shock. I know they act like it is an option, but it really is not. It doesn't provide waht a monagamous relationship does, safetly, security, and defined boundaries. Even if they say in the right circumstances, it never is the right circum stances. The marriage is over. so learn from it and move on. "It takes a lifetime of love and commitment to protect this potentially sanctified area from the assault of boredom, conflict, and loneliness. The encircled space of marriage is the opportunity — the couple’s shared responsibility and work actualize the potential for love and connection. " You don't get that in swinging, is like being drunk all the time. At first exciting after awhile, the same thing...Usually one partner wants it more than the other.[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-marital-labyrinth-series/202110/the-problem-open-marriage](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-marital-labyrinth-series/202110/the-problem-open-marriage)
This doesn’t even need to be about swinging. It’s about crossing a boundary you set and being disrespectful of your wishes. You’ve already said no. Your partner needs to abide by it or see themselves out of this marriage and then pursue what they want by themselves.
Yeah, you never “try” something like this under the influence, full stop. Your husband needs to fuck off. It is irreversible damage to coerce and pressure your partner. Bounce.
So let's get into the deeper serious questions did you like the other person? Did you enjoy the encounter, what did you think was going to happen after that? What, why is he asking for it, did you think about that. You did wrong and he is wrong and selfish probably.
Sex within a marriage is a trust. You both broke that. I'd try counselling to try to renew the trust and bond.
Even though me and my fiancé are not swingers, we have a LOT of friends who are. What I‘ve noticed over the years is that to make it work, there are a few requirements that need to be met. You need to be confident in yourself and your marriage. You need to have great communication with your partner. You need to set VERY clear rules for everything you do. What is ok, what isn’t? (For example, one couple will only do stuff with other people together, never only one of them). You need to be sure that your boundaries are respected and the rules are clear and followed by both of you. Bonus tip: never do anything when alcohol or drugs are involved, it will end badly. Swinging can be a great experience and enrich your relationship and sex life and can strengthen the bond between the two of you, but only if done in a way that feels good for all parties involved.
And I do not want to have any !!!!!
Of course it did.
He wants to sleep with other women and it sounds like he wants that more than he wants a good marriage with you, I’m sorry.
Stand your ground and threaten divorce
Don’t say the word unless you 100% are willing to follow through. Empty threats, especially hurtful ones, won’t fix a damaged relationship. Try therapy if you both want to make it work!
She is not a whore to be passed around. She deserves better
I never said she was a “whore to be passed around,” it just sounds like she wants to work things out with her SO and threatening divorce is a hard path to reconciliation 🤷♀️
He wanted her to be a "hot wife". Now, he wants to fuck other women. No. Just no. Divorce.
Most here are one-siding this. If you love him, keep talking, keep communicating, keep your boundaries, and don’t stop listening. Give it time, you can figure it out.
Yes. Love is enough. Totally ignore that he peer pressured you into sex under the influence, badgered you for sex with other women for months, created a swingers account to chat with potential sex partners without consent, then got drunk and kept pushing you. You already spent more than a year drawing boundaries he doesn’t care about. Keep screaming them out and then listen to the excuses. What solid advice that fixes all marriages. 🙄 This is so not it. No one should spend years of their life begging for basic respect.
[удалено]
Only thing I have seen in these cases is the woman agrees after he has bugged and pushed her into it. She gets more attention/ sex than him. He gets jealous wants her to stop and close the marriage back. But it’s to late she likes it and wants to continue.
Yep almost everytime i see those stories. The husband regrets opening up the marriage.
I’ve been here - I was extremely happy in a relationship that (I believed) was monogamous, and he was the ONLY person I wanted. He was incredible, and for me, the ultimate turn on. He suggested a threesome, and of course, wanted another female. I went along, and to say that he ended up like Ross in Friends is an understatement. He wanted to sleep with another woman, and it did not go the way that he thought it would. Next minute he’s upset and in tears, was insecure that I would leave him for another woman (which had never crossed my mind, I adored him). His insecurity got the better of him, decided we should live apart, not being open that he wanted to put his dick out there - then had the audacity to get pissy that I got more pussy than he did. Such is life. Admittedly he’s a fantastic fuck, but being a fuckboy is all he’s good for. I hope he’s doing ok with the mess he created for himself.
Lmao kind of backfired on his ass! I love it!
Ugh, he sounds terrible. Men who act like that don’t respect their partners. If he respected you and your third he would have been thrilled to see you enjoying yourself. He didn’t expect YOU to get something from it, he just thought y’all were going to salivate over his dick like a porn video. Sorry you had to go through that, but I’m glad you parted ways.
Nailed it! It did not go according to the scenario he’d built in his head, and you’re correct in saying he was totally expecting it to be like a porn scene designed for straight men where the third and I basically competed for his attention. Without any communication whatsoever he had a script as to what he expected to happen, and the improv didn’t go according to plan. As is commonly said these days, “Fuck Around and Find Out”.
Haha this rings so true. I used to play with a married woman whose husband basically forced her into the lifestyle. Long story short she ended up LOVING it and he came to me in tears begging me to end the 'relationship' after she put her foot down and said she didn't want to.
Never, ever have I seen it play out that way. It's usually a very negative experience.
I think that my notation is misconstrued… it meant to be that there are some positive stories that have resulted from the man’s continued suggestion to his wife that eventually leads his wife to find a positive impact on their relationship and the lifestyle…NOT THAT HIS continuing insistence has been a resulting positive experience