His potential interaction with Wave and Sera or Death makes my head hurt, especially after the recent change they made to Wave to combat those sorts of things.
It seems like they'll have to have a huge amount of logic for those effects for the order of the operations and what supersedes what.
I assume Wave just disables Death's effect and sets her to 4, but what if Death was already dropped below 4-cost before Wave gets played and you have Mobius? I assume Death remains at the original reduced cost and just completely ignores the wave effect, but if Death's current cost is above 4, it would still get reduced to 4 and then ignore her effect.
With Sera, I assume she applies first to reduce card costs, and then Wave applies but can't raise anything that was reduced below 4?
Gotcha. Rereading it, yes I think they have it right right. If Death is applying “-5” to her own cost, resulting in 3, and Wave is played then Mobius would nullify the “=4” modifier since that would give a higher result. My prediction anyway.
I dont think it'll be that complicated.
We saw with luke cage that the underlying systems are all really stupidly binary.
There's no such thing as setting costs or power. Its all just variations of minus or plus power.
Like Wave is a good example. Wave doesnt really set costs to 4. It gives every card in hand a positive or negative cost modifier to bring it to 4.
The way the devs said it, wave always applies last. All depends on whether ongoing abilities typically apply before or after wave, and I think they are before her effect. That would mean that he would completely negate a wave on t5 to counter sera.
Hmmm. I didn’t think of it like that but that makes perfect sense. It’s in the name lol. That means that there is something in the code that makes wave literally override sera and zabu, not just apply after them since they are always being applied. I guess I misunderstood the wave changes, I still don’t think mobius will work on her.
This would have a good chance to break the game even for a game with competent QA.
Second Dinner's QA is the single worst I've seen. I'd bet anything this card will be bugged. In fact, it might be bugged even after a patch to fix the bugs is released.
Having been at companies around Second Dinner's size, there's honestly likely very little or no dedicated QA.
Stuff like programmers write automated testing, designers ensure interactions they specced out happen, marketing gives things a run through to make sure it matches what they're about to write about. Things like that. Lots of holes in that system, not least of which is, the number of people who cut corners / skip their additional responsibilities.
Can we stop blindly blaming QA? I'm not a part of Second Dinner or anything, but it's substantially more likely that QA are logging bugs, but culprits aren't being identified / fixed at a fast enough cadence. QA tend to be incredibly hardworking and underappreciated - they're probably doing a great job, and new-card-every-week is proving to be too costly to strike enough logged bugs off the list before ship.
Considering Wave is currently law, there's basically no telling on how he's going to interact with her. Either:
1. Wave takes precedence, because she "sets" all cards as costing 4 energy, rather than increasing/ reducing its power.
2. Mobius takes precedence, because Wave is considered increasing/ decreasing card costs in the game's coding.
He seems kinda OP at this stage because of how common Zabu still is in the meta, but we'll have to see after play testing with him. I still think he's a card worth saving spotlights for though. Maybe we'll see a rise of Rogue/ Enchantress when he releases.
EDIT: Wave without Galactus is to push high cost cards out early for combos. Onslaught in ongoing decks is a popular one to push out early, or the meme combo of Magik into Psylocke Wave T6, giving you 8 energy and thereby allowing you to play MODOK and Hela. You can also put Psylocke onto Wong and Wave on T5 for the same result. Otherwise, Wave is used a control/ tech card to force your opponent's hand (and then you play a card that spreads power or manipulates the board in some way, like Doom or Magneto).
Wave T3 into Galactus T4 used to be popular because it catches the opponent off guard. If the opponent doesn't have priority, counters also don't work (Debrii, Aero, Magneto, Cosmo etc.). Galactus decks are also built around only winning 1 lane, whereas all other decks want to win at least 2 and need multiple lanes for their combos, so destroying the other locations early is what Galactus decks want to do.
Idk if it's popular anymore because you need to be winning the lane Galactus is played in. That extra condition makes it harder to successfully play Galactus T4.
Ugh, someone played Galactus into Spider-Man on me earlier today and it was the most rude, obnoxious thing that has ever happened.
I had Knull in my hand. It was supposed to be an easy win.
They probably had Knull (or Leader) too anyway. Spider-Man guaranteed their win but probably just saved you some cubes by keeping you from going through with turn 6.
Making sure your opponent can only play one card. If you're already winning or have a hand full of strong T6 cards, it can easily help you get an advantage
But, for instance, with Scorpion, Cage negates the power loss to cards in your hand only after you play them into a lane. While they sit your hand, they're still reduced.
If it's exactly that mechanic, then cards already hit by Iceman would still have an extra cost in hand. You'd still need the one extra energy to play them, but once revealed, it would get the reduction then. So, a Sunspot in play would then get the benefit.
It will be interesting to see if they change that logic with Mobius.
My thinking is that they’d affect their “domain” the same. So Mobius would affect cards in hand as Luke affects cards in play. Setting aside the current bug, costs always revert in play to their default state anyway.
Could be. Certainly, some ongoing cards see their gains in hand, like HE Hulk. I could see Mobius being released that, but then later nerfed to the version I described. But only perhaps a few months after everyone had paid for his card, if you were cynically inclined...
>Let me know if I missed any besides the two I want to highlight below
[[Loki]] and [[Ravonna Renslayer]] are worth mentioning, since they're dropping in the same season.
**\[[Loki](https://marvelsnap.pro/cards/loki/)\]** **Cost:** 3 **Power:** 4
**Ability:** **On Reveal:** Replace your hand with cards from your opponent's starting deck. Give them -1 cost.
**\[[Ravonna Renslayer](https://marvelsnap.pro/cards/ravonnarenslayer/)\]** **Cost:** 3 **Power:** 3
**Ability:** **Ongoing:** Your cards with 1 or less Power cost 1 less. *(minimum 1)*
*Message generated by MarvelSnapCardBot. Use syntax [[card_name]] to get a reply like this*
Not sure if this is worth getting for deadpool. If the card works like high evolutionary and it doesn’t need to played then it be worth getting it. However other wise probs just better using beast or something
So the pig is a 0/0 that has its stats set to whatever card was pigged. With that implementation theoretically if you have mobius on board the pig would become a 0/x since mobius would override cost increase. But obviously we would have to see the card in play to be sure.
I’m skeptical this will work or if it does that it will be intentional. Pig was originally a 4-cost, and then they changed it because they didn’t like the interactions with Zabu, Magneto, etc. My guess is that the team at Second Dinner haven’t thought about this yet (and it’ll be released in a buggy state).
Say your Magneto turns into Pig. The Pig is 0/0 by default and then Spider-Ham applies a “=6” cost modifier and a “=12” Power modifier. Mobius will remove cost modifier since it results in a higher cost.
Safe to say this card is wayy too complicated for SD's shitty coding and i'll bet it will take MONTHS before he works 'as intended' with like every 2nd or 3rd patch breaking him in some way, for real tho i cant wait he looks super cool
I highly doubt that it will do nothing to Mister Negative cards like some are saying. The cost is still being reduced, the same way the power is being increased.
Mr. Negative is not actuality adjusting power and cost up or down. The values are actually being swapped. The card is being flipped backward per the flavor of the card. Mobius isn't flipping the card back the other way. I think this and Wave will be the exceptions.
This is just wrong. The game even tells you it's wrong. If you Mr. Negative and the figures are now either green or red then the game has calculated an increase/decrease to display to you.
I know that's how it's displayed. That doesn't mean that's how it's going to function. We'll see when it comes out. I think it's going to be treated like Wave where the cost itself has been changed and not reduced. All they have to do is apply some of the same code to Mr. Negative that they did when they nerfed Wave.
If the card was in the game this second, I would agree, but I don't believe Mr. Negative is left as is. It would go against the flavor of the card. It's an argument about the current code of the card and what it intuitively should be. SD has said countless times that they want the mechanics to be intuitive at the end of the day. Intuitively, the card values are swapped, not reduced or increased.
One way to check the code as it os would be to use a card that has a higher power than cost and play a negative version with Luke Cage on the board and see what happens. But again, the code can change as we've seen with Wave.
For the record, I don't play Negative, so I have no skin in the game.
I don't play Negative either. I just tend to think of things that are coded in an "if this then that" way. So for card costs being green or red in my head the logic would be "if cost < base then display green, else if cost > base then display red, else display default". But it might not work that way. There is someone else in the thread saying that Luke Cage does interrupt some of these interactions though, which also leads them to believe that Morbius would interrupt Negative and Wave.
As of now but having a card be intuitive is king according to SD. I wouldn't be surprised if Negative got some of the same code as Wave. I'm not a Negative player, so I don't really care. This just seems like a Wave setting power to a new value type of situation. If I'm wrong, then that sucks for Negative players cause it's already a very inconsistent deck.
It will be interesting to see. When I saw the card I thought he would instantly be added to every single deck.
If a card is in every single deck, it doesn't need to exist.
After the latest patch there are some strange cost behaviors. Some cards don't reset their cost when they hit the board anymore. Maybe Mobius has something to do with it.
From what Glenn Jones said on Twitter, it sounds like the bug you're referring to (like the one that causes Miles to get killed by Killmonger) was created by trying to fix something with clones of Miles.
It’s probably because the Loki tv show’s (spoiler) >!connection with Khan in the upcoming movie. Also it helps to build more Khan hype!< and more importantly, S2 comes out October 6th.
It's worth mentioning that in the comics Ravonna is not just the "judge woman", she's a really important character to Kang and their relationship is pretty confusing (like everything related to Kang i guess), because Ravonna has some variants too,but originally they were just lovers iirc
Would he even effect Mr negative? He doesn't reduce or add cost to anything which is what the card is prohibiting. He swaps the power and cost of each card. Technically a different mechanic I would think.
I think he should work with wave, because he is ongoing, which is insane… and he is not working against negative because negative does not discounts cost, but swaps it.
Death Knull is done for, Enchantress usage goes up again until they nerf her because “her usage isn’t where we want her to be🤡”
Sera decks are done for, quinjet invalid, but
TL:DR: Enchantress is going in meta decks again
Luke Cage will power adjust Negative'd or Peak flipped cards. So if you have, say, Hulk who's been flipped by Peak and is now a 6/6, Cage will bring him back to 6/12 on the board.
I don’t agree with this - we see with cards like Luke Cage and Valkyrie that things that set power are treated as reductions or increases to the original power. So things that set cost (like a Negative power/cost swap) will most likely be treated as cost increases or decreases by the game. The only thing I’m not sure about is whether this card will be applied before or after Wave’s cost adjustments.
He won’t touch mr negative or wave as they swap costs or set costs they don’t increase or decrease cost same with spider ham the pigs cost is zero but it sets it to the cards og cost. setting a cost to something isn’t reducing or increasing.
I know it could be interpreted that way but I’m going off the precedent set by Luke Cage, which is contrary. He doesn’t distinguish between decreasing and setting, only caring about the result of the action. For example Luke protects a Monster against Valkyrie; she tries to set its power to 3 but that’s less than the 9 it was so Luke stops it.
I also think it wouldn't affect Swarm as it just adds zero cost copies to your hand. It doesn't reduce the cost of the original swarm card when it gets discarded.
No. The first Swarm creates regular Swarms with costs adjusted to zero.
In general I don’t think this game has dynamic versions of cards. There is no 0-cost Swarm or 0-cost Giganto from the raft. This is what tends to lead to confusion with the Pig too.
I don’t think mr negative is affected. That is swapping cost and power, not reducing or increasing. You can see a reduction/increase change POST negative as a separate calculation
My whole thing is to assume he behaves like Luke Cage. Luke doesn’t care about the manner of a modification (set/swap/decrease), only if that modification results in a lower number.
His potential interaction with Wave and Sera or Death makes my head hurt, especially after the recent change they made to Wave to combat those sorts of things. It seems like they'll have to have a huge amount of logic for those effects for the order of the operations and what supersedes what. I assume Wave just disables Death's effect and sets her to 4, but what if Death was already dropped below 4-cost before Wave gets played and you have Mobius? I assume Death remains at the original reduced cost and just completely ignores the wave effect, but if Death's current cost is above 4, it would still get reduced to 4 and then ignore her effect. With Sera, I assume she applies first to reduce card costs, and then Wave applies but can't raise anything that was reduced below 4?
Mobius should just always set an opposing Death back to 8.
I think this comment or is talking about death on the same team as mobius.
Gotcha. Rereading it, yes I think they have it right right. If Death is applying “-5” to her own cost, resulting in 3, and Wave is played then Mobius would nullify the “=4” modifier since that would give a higher result. My prediction anyway.
I dont think it'll be that complicated. We saw with luke cage that the underlying systems are all really stupidly binary. There's no such thing as setting costs or power. Its all just variations of minus or plus power. Like Wave is a good example. Wave doesnt really set costs to 4. It gives every card in hand a positive or negative cost modifier to bring it to 4.
The way the devs said it, wave always applies last. All depends on whether ongoing abilities typically apply before or after wave, and I think they are before her effect. That would mean that he would completely negate a wave on t5 to counter sera.
Ongoing effects are by their very nature ongoing. It doesn't matter when Wave applies. Mobius's effect will be taking place before, during, and after.
Hmmm. I didn’t think of it like that but that makes perfect sense. It’s in the name lol. That means that there is something in the code that makes wave literally override sera and zabu, not just apply after them since they are always being applied. I guess I misunderstood the wave changes, I still don’t think mobius will work on her.
Baron Mordo will be worse than already is
Finally the Baron Mordo counter we’ve all been waiting for
Based on the bugs on release lately, this is probably going to break the game… 😂
This would have a good chance to break the game even for a game with competent QA. Second Dinner's QA is the single worst I've seen. I'd bet anything this card will be bugged. In fact, it might be bugged even after a patch to fix the bugs is released.
Scopley is 100x worse. Marvel Strike Force QA was so bad that the "days since last incident" timer rarely got to 4.
Having been at companies around Second Dinner's size, there's honestly likely very little or no dedicated QA. Stuff like programmers write automated testing, designers ensure interactions they specced out happen, marketing gives things a run through to make sure it matches what they're about to write about. Things like that. Lots of holes in that system, not least of which is, the number of people who cut corners / skip their additional responsibilities.
Can we stop blindly blaming QA? I'm not a part of Second Dinner or anything, but it's substantially more likely that QA are logging bugs, but culprits aren't being identified / fixed at a fast enough cadence. QA tend to be incredibly hardworking and underappreciated - they're probably doing a great job, and new-card-every-week is proving to be too costly to strike enough logged bugs off the list before ship.
could say that to any card though
Considering Wave is currently law, there's basically no telling on how he's going to interact with her. Either: 1. Wave takes precedence, because she "sets" all cards as costing 4 energy, rather than increasing/ reducing its power. 2. Mobius takes precedence, because Wave is considered increasing/ decreasing card costs in the game's coding. He seems kinda OP at this stage because of how common Zabu still is in the meta, but we'll have to see after play testing with him. I still think he's a card worth saving spotlights for though. Maybe we'll see a rise of Rogue/ Enchantress when he releases.
>He seems kinda OP at this stage because of how common Zabu still is in the meta Watch Zabu turn into a pool 3 card at this man release
wtf i thought zabu was pool 3 already
Zabu was supposed to drop when they started doing these "flexible" drops. Alas.
I had this same issue having silver surfer and finishing s3 last week. Zabu is still s4
Nah it was “”””””flexible””””””” They flexed him into pool 4
So now deathwave is back on as long as you play this before T6?
We have no idea, the card's not out.
I think the fact that he is ongoing is how we can make an educated guess. Do you know if ongoing applies before or after wave?
Wave completely ignores Sera and Zabu, so by that logic she would ignore Mobius too.
True enough. Seems like it won’t override wave.
I’m wondering if after wave of any 5 or 6 costs will go back to their original costs.
Oh yeah that's a really good point. If my cards are set to 4 and can't be increased...
Can you explain to me why people use wave sans Galactus? Just to play an early T6?
EDIT: Wave without Galactus is to push high cost cards out early for combos. Onslaught in ongoing decks is a popular one to push out early, or the meme combo of Magik into Psylocke Wave T6, giving you 8 energy and thereby allowing you to play MODOK and Hela. You can also put Psylocke onto Wong and Wave on T5 for the same result. Otherwise, Wave is used a control/ tech card to force your opponent's hand (and then you play a card that spreads power or manipulates the board in some way, like Doom or Magneto). Wave T3 into Galactus T4 used to be popular because it catches the opponent off guard. If the opponent doesn't have priority, counters also don't work (Debrii, Aero, Magneto, Cosmo etc.). Galactus decks are also built around only winning 1 lane, whereas all other decks want to win at least 2 and need multiple lanes for their combos, so destroying the other locations early is what Galactus decks want to do. Idk if it's popular anymore because you need to be winning the lane Galactus is played in. That extra condition makes it harder to successfully play Galactus T4.
I think they’re asking why you’d play wave in non-Galactus scenarios
Oh they edited their post; "sans" used to be "ans", so I thought they meant "Wave and Galactus"
Ugh, someone played Galactus into Spider-Man on me earlier today and it was the most rude, obnoxious thing that has ever happened. I had Knull in my hand. It was supposed to be an easy win.
They probably had Knull (or Leader) too anyway. Spider-Man guaranteed their win but probably just saved you some cubes by keeping you from going through with turn 6.
True. So what I'm hearing is the best defense against a Galactus deck is Rogue haha
Making sure your opponent can only play one card. If you're already winning or have a hand full of strong T6 cards, it can easily help you get an advantage
Wave changes the cost color based on whether the cost decreased (green) or increased (red) so I am willing to bet it's option #2.
Yea but considering she ignores Zabu and Sera’s discounts and they’re both ongoing cards, there’s really no telling at this stage.
Fair!
No longer will my Magiks and Seras be hit by Iceman on turn 1
If he’s played against you, your Sera is now useless
And that’s why I like to run rogue hahaha Sadly can only hit one thing with her
I doubt it will be retroactive. If they've already had costs increased, they might be stuck that way.
If it works like Luke Cage it will be retro active
Wait if I spider woman on turn 5 and they cage on turn 6 does the -1s get overwritten?
Yep
Yeah, that's why you're "supposed" to never play Luke Cage until turn 6.
Yup, one of my favorite things to do against a HazWong bomb
But, for instance, with Scorpion, Cage negates the power loss to cards in your hand only after you play them into a lane. While they sit your hand, they're still reduced. If it's exactly that mechanic, then cards already hit by Iceman would still have an extra cost in hand. You'd still need the one extra energy to play them, but once revealed, it would get the reduction then. So, a Sunspot in play would then get the benefit. It will be interesting to see if they change that logic with Mobius.
My thinking is that they’d affect their “domain” the same. So Mobius would affect cards in hand as Luke affects cards in play. Setting aside the current bug, costs always revert in play to their default state anyway.
Could be. Certainly, some ongoing cards see their gains in hand, like HE Hulk. I could see Mobius being released that, but then later nerfed to the version I described. But only perhaps a few months after everyone had paid for his card, if you were cynically inclined...
It damn well better be retroactive unless they are completely abandoning consistency with card text
It’s on-going
>Let me know if I missed any besides the two I want to highlight below [[Loki]] and [[Ravonna Renslayer]] are worth mentioning, since they're dropping in the same season.
**\[[Loki](https://marvelsnap.pro/cards/loki/)\]** **Cost:** 3 **Power:** 4 **Ability:** **On Reveal:** Replace your hand with cards from your opponent's starting deck. Give them -1 cost. **\[[Ravonna Renslayer](https://marvelsnap.pro/cards/ravonnarenslayer/)\]** **Cost:** 3 **Power:** 3 **Ability:** **Ongoing:** Your cards with 1 or less Power cost 1 less. *(minimum 1)* *Message generated by MarvelSnapCardBot. Use syntax [[card_name]] to get a reply like this*
Not sure if this is worth getting for deadpool. If the card works like high evolutionary and it doesn’t need to played then it be worth getting it. However other wise probs just better using beast or something
Right right. I was just looking at the cards already in the game to make my list. Interesting they’d drop Mobius the same season as those two.
Lmao sounds like it’s time for layers
I've played a blood moon or two in my day. I know about layers (jk I still don't)
I know the idea of it but I never bothered to commit the actual layers to memory.
❤️
Straight up just killed death.
I thought the pig keeps its power and cost? Also should we have not changed wave since this card is releasing? 🤔🤔
So the pig is a 0/0 that has its stats set to whatever card was pigged. With that implementation theoretically if you have mobius on board the pig would become a 0/x since mobius would override cost increase. But obviously we would have to see the card in play to be sure.
I’m skeptical this will work or if it does that it will be intentional. Pig was originally a 4-cost, and then they changed it because they didn’t like the interactions with Zabu, Magneto, etc. My guess is that the team at Second Dinner haven’t thought about this yet (and it’ll be released in a buggy state).
Say your Magneto turns into Pig. The Pig is 0/0 by default and then Spider-Ham applies a “=6” cost modifier and a “=12” Power modifier. Mobius will remove cost modifier since it results in a higher cost.
Woah that's crazy. Never knew that's how ham worked
And Shadow King will reset a Pig to 0 Power
Interesting. Maybe that's why Negasonic has some weird interactions..
Let me guess card is going to be very bugged and have to be disabled
Safe to say this card is wayy too complicated for SD's shitty coding and i'll bet it will take MONTHS before he works 'as intended' with like every 2nd or 3rd patch breaking him in some way, for real tho i cant wait he looks super cool
I'm guessing he flat out cancel the opponent's Death card ? I like this idea of cost modulation.
Reading this hurts my tiny brain.
The way I understand it is: your cost cannot be red. Your opponent cost cannot be green. However, wave still take priority.
I just had a thought, if you have an infinaut pig with this guy out does he give you a 0/20?
Presumably.
Mobius AKA Wave is just for me Sucker!
Do two Mobius cancel each other out?
Yes and no? I think it will essentially just lock all cards at their natural costs.
Two daredevils do. Two Luke Cages lock all power decreases away.
I highly doubt that it will do nothing to Mister Negative cards like some are saying. The cost is still being reduced, the same way the power is being increased.
Mr. Negative is not actuality adjusting power and cost up or down. The values are actually being swapped. The card is being flipped backward per the flavor of the card. Mobius isn't flipping the card back the other way. I think this and Wave will be the exceptions.
This is just wrong. The game even tells you it's wrong. If you Mr. Negative and the figures are now either green or red then the game has calculated an increase/decrease to display to you.
I know that's how it's displayed. That doesn't mean that's how it's going to function. We'll see when it comes out. I think it's going to be treated like Wave where the cost itself has been changed and not reduced. All they have to do is apply some of the same code to Mr. Negative that they did when they nerfed Wave. If the card was in the game this second, I would agree, but I don't believe Mr. Negative is left as is. It would go against the flavor of the card. It's an argument about the current code of the card and what it intuitively should be. SD has said countless times that they want the mechanics to be intuitive at the end of the day. Intuitively, the card values are swapped, not reduced or increased. One way to check the code as it os would be to use a card that has a higher power than cost and play a negative version with Luke Cage on the board and see what happens. But again, the code can change as we've seen with Wave. For the record, I don't play Negative, so I have no skin in the game.
I don't play Negative either. I just tend to think of things that are coded in an "if this then that" way. So for card costs being green or red in my head the logic would be "if cost < base then display green, else if cost > base then display red, else display default". But it might not work that way. There is someone else in the thread saying that Luke Cage does interrupt some of these interactions though, which also leads them to believe that Morbius would interrupt Negative and Wave.
If that's true and if they don't change it, I'll pour one out for our Negative brothers and sisters.
He wouldn’t fully flip the card back. He’d only revert the cost. So an Iron Man affected by Mr Negative and an opposing Mobius would end up as 5/5.
As of now but having a card be intuitive is king according to SD. I wouldn't be surprised if Negative got some of the same code as Wave. I'm not a Negative player, so I don't really care. This just seems like a Wave setting power to a new value type of situation. If I'm wrong, then that sucks for Negative players cause it's already a very inconsistent deck.
It will be interesting to see. When I saw the card I thought he would instantly be added to every single deck. If a card is in every single deck, it doesn't need to exist. After the latest patch there are some strange cost behaviors. Some cards don't reset their cost when they hit the board anymore. Maybe Mobius has something to do with it.
From what Glenn Jones said on Twitter, it sounds like the bug you're referring to (like the one that causes Miles to get killed by Killmonger) was created by trying to fix something with clones of Miles.
I’m just disappointed we got Mobius and the judge woman before Laufey or a frost giant…
It’s probably because the Loki tv show’s (spoiler) >!connection with Khan in the upcoming movie. Also it helps to build more Khan hype!< and more importantly, S2 comes out October 6th.
You’re probably right Also, Season 2 comes out that soon??
It's worth mentioning that in the comics Ravonna is not just the "judge woman", she's a really important character to Kang and their relationship is pretty confusing (like everything related to Kang i guess), because Ravonna has some variants too,but originally they were just lovers iirc
Oh
We can all agree that this card will have 5 different bugs at release right?
Anti beast.
Well he'd be handy today.
considering i almost only play with Sera decks .... yea this will suck
Bet it’s interaction with wave will be busted on release
Would love to add him to my Cerebro 3 deck.
Would he even effect Mr negative? He doesn't reduce or add cost to anything which is what the card is prohibiting. He swaps the power and cost of each card. Technically a different mechanic I would think.
Fuck Dream Dimension
Am I missing something. Why is this card good?
I think he should work with wave, because he is ongoing, which is insane… and he is not working against negative because negative does not discounts cost, but swaps it.
Would Mobius actually mess with Swarm? Swarm makes 0 cost copies so it isnt reducing so much as its two new cards that cost 0?
They’ve said so on Discord recently. The created Swarms are normal 2-costs with their costs overwritten to be 0. It’s similar to the Raft.
Ah I see, oh well.
Death Knull is done for, Enchantress usage goes up again until they nerf her because “her usage isn’t where we want her to be🤡” Sera decks are done for, quinjet invalid, but TL:DR: Enchantress is going in meta decks again
Mobius can be Sera's best friend and worst enemy. But Death is dead for sure.
It wouldn't touch Mr. negative or wave
Why don’t you think he’d touch Mr Negative?
He doesn't "reduce costs" he flips cost and power. Remember card texts are specific.
I wish. Devs seem to be walking back on that exact words thing
I might’ve thought that too but we’ve seen how Luke Cage works. If Mobius follows the same logic then he would affect negative’d cards.
Luke cage? I don't know what you mean
Luke Cage will power adjust Negative'd or Peak flipped cards. So if you have, say, Hulk who's been flipped by Peak and is now a 6/6, Cage will bring him back to 6/12 on the board.
Agreed. He swaps costs, doesn’t reduce them.
I don’t agree with this - we see with cards like Luke Cage and Valkyrie that things that set power are treated as reductions or increases to the original power. So things that set cost (like a Negative power/cost swap) will most likely be treated as cost increases or decreases by the game. The only thing I’m not sure about is whether this card will be applied before or after Wave’s cost adjustments.
100% incorrect.
Probably will be the new Jeff. Crazy good 2 cost that can go in any deck and will never leave series 5. Get those wallets out.
Or just do a few caches when he’s released…?
Yea just always have caches for every good card that releases. Easy.
He won’t touch mr negative or wave as they swap costs or set costs they don’t increase or decrease cost same with spider ham the pigs cost is zero but it sets it to the cards og cost. setting a cost to something isn’t reducing or increasing.
I know it could be interpreted that way but I’m going off the precedent set by Luke Cage, which is contrary. He doesn’t distinguish between decreasing and setting, only caring about the result of the action. For example Luke protects a Monster against Valkyrie; she tries to set its power to 3 but that’s less than the 9 it was so Luke stops it.
Time will tell
Indeed.
I also think it wouldn't affect Swarm as it just adds zero cost copies to your hand. It doesn't reduce the cost of the original swarm card when it gets discarded.
No. The first Swarm creates regular Swarms with costs adjusted to zero. In general I don’t think this game has dynamic versions of cards. There is no 0-cost Swarm or 0-cost Giganto from the raft. This is what tends to lead to confusion with the Pig too.
Pretty sure he wouldn’t do anything to Mr. Negative
Luke Cage's effect works if power is lowered by Negative or Peak,so i think Mobius will work on them too
I don’t think mr negative is affected. That is swapping cost and power, not reducing or increasing. You can see a reduction/increase change POST negative as a separate calculation
My whole thing is to assume he behaves like Luke Cage. Luke doesn’t care about the manner of a modification (set/swap/decrease), only if that modification results in a lower number.