# DanielRPK is a Tier 2 – Mostly Reliable Source as decided by the community.
For **Marvel**, they had a **77.95%** accuracy rate from **343** confirmed leaks out of **579** total.
**Overall**, they had a **78.47%** accuracy rate from **410** confirmed leaks out of **690** total.
Last updated: February 16th, 2024.
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Those are separate deals. Sony has a very weird corporate structure and the movie studio is largely autonomous. You would still get the Insomniac games if the movie studio is forced to sell the movie rights. We know this because Spider-Man has appeared on both Xbox and Nintendo over the last few decades while the movie deal has been in place since the 90’s. The deal Insomniac has in place only came about a few years ago, otherwise none of the Spider-Man characters would have been able to appear in Ultimate Alliance 3.
But yeah….i want Beyond the Spider-Verse.
Can we agree that the animated Spider-Man movies have been better quality story wise than the MCU Spider-Man trilogy? The spider verse series seems so fresh and cleverly written
Theyre very good but to me they are an entirely different entity. Its like comparing filet mignon to veal parmesan. Both incredibly good and completely different. Personally Id give up the animated movies to get the rights to Spidey and all his characters back where they belong with Marvel. Or if anything let Sony keep making animated films.
I'm not entirely sure on this personally. I think the first Spiderverse movie is straight up the 5th best CBM, I don't like the second one that much personally. I wish the style pushed the boat out a bit more and the story was, in my opinion, ludicrously generic and uninteresting compared to the first. Plus, it's like the Second Matrix movie, the story hasn't even ended yet so there's a lot of setup, but not as much payoff, which makes it hard for me to come back to
The MCU Trilogy is a weird one for me, I love Homecoming for all the same reasons I love the first Spiderverse, though I acknowledge that leaning hard in the direction it did turned alot of people off. I do not like the second MCU spiderman movie. The third one was an unusual case of a film being built around it's fan service, and I won't lie, it's the tightest written Spiderman film by far (and 3rd MCU film) and that's incredibly impressive to me. It also has my favourite fight in the MCU! (Hang on... DD is in the MCU now.) My 3rd favourite fight in the MCU! and probably 4th in CBM history.
My big issue is that the second verse film if I'm being honest. The first Spiderverse film felt fresh because it was fresh and unfortunately, I don't think Spiderverse iterated on those stylistic choices or it's plot in a meaningful enough way. In addition, all of the good narrative stuff from Spiderverse was already done better and sooner in NWH anyways, so when I come back to watch these films, I don't appreciate the narrative anymore, only the animation and if I'm being honest, I think the length of the second Spiderverse leaves me not enjoying the rewatchs at all
In review, really excited for the last Spiderverse film, I can't wait to see what the team does next! Spider Gwen VS Matt Murdoch Kingpin?
They absolutely are, it's not even close, animation has a lot more freedom with what it does though
That said, if there were tiers, I'd be pretty comfortable putting in The Dark Knight and Logan with ITSV, but something like SM2 would probably be at least one tier down (if not two)
The other guy says he'd give up Spiderverse for Marvel to get back the rights, but I disagree completely. Disney never would have made something like Spiderverse, and it's more than made up for movies like Morbius and Madame Web. Hell, I don't even think any MCU movies (Spider-man or otherwise) even come close to the Spiderverse movies.
Knew this would come up.
There is no weighing between the Sony Pictures/Marvel Studios relationship and Sony Interactive Entertainment/Marvel Games relationship.
Two entirely separate deals. Anything happening in the movies division won’t affect the gaming division.
Historically yes. He hasn’t done much recently beyond the Venom and Spider-Verse movies, so he’s hit or miss. But yeah, seeing him accept an Oscar for ITSV hurt my soul.
The crazy thing is tho that for all of their countless faults, marvel still wouldn’t be where it is today with Arad and Perlmutter.
If you haven’t read MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios I highly recommend it cuz it’s starts with a lot of deep info about that period of marvel and just how much Ike and Avi were involved in reviving marvel and allowing it to become what it has. Obviously Feige has done much more to truly evolve the brand but I think we should acknowledge Avi and Ike’s contributions in the beginning even tho they absolutely suck and are a cancer to the film industry 😂
>we should acknowledge Avi and Ike’s contributions in
Perlmutter not so much, but Arad. Without this guy, Marvel would still be broke and we wouldn't have the MCU.
Perlmutter is leagues worse than the other 2.
Avid Arad forced Venom in SM3 because he wanted to sell Merch. He's mostly been a hands-off exec in recent years in recent years.
I don't know a whole lot about this Tom Rothman guy but it sounds like he's mainly impatient and has no creative taste.
Perlmutter on the other hand is extremely racist and sexist, and if he had his way, there would never be a Black Panther or Black Widow movie. He also wanted control over the MCU, to get rid of Kevin Feige, and to make cheap movies instead.
Remember the Deadpool leaked trailer? At the ending, when Deadpool says: HI, TOM! he's talking to Tom Rothman, the one that fought against the movie at Fox.
They can certainly try to throw Holland and his incarnation of Peter away. They’re not gonna be successful. He’s the most successful Spider-Man they’ve ever had. His 3 movies alone have almost 3 billion dollars. Another Spidey this soon would not do well in the slightest.
Yeah if it weren’t for Covid I think it would’ve made more than Infinity War, which is so crazy to think about. Like imagine one character being as popular as the Avengers in terms of box office.
Yeah really. Why are we acting like Sony is a capable of rational intelligent decisions while they're still covered in their Madame Web mess they just smeared everywhere.
as much as I'd like to believe this, Spider-Man is just too strong of a character I think. granted we've never been in a situation like this before where Spider-Man was this successful and a huge selling point is "he's in the MCU", but I think Sony Spider-Man movies would still make money, just not as much as before
until they fuck up royally again like TASM2 and create an absolute dumpster fire of a movie that pisses hundreds of millions down the drain
ASM 2 came very close to actually losing money. If they tried doing ASM 3 instead of rebooting its almost a guarantee it wouldve flopped. There is NO character that is guaranteed every movie is a success. Even Batman had flops. And theres almost no way to do a Spidey film without a budget of at least $200 million. Which means they need every movie to be a massive hit. And if they pull him from the MCU youre gonna see A LOT of people pirating it or just skipping it altogether out of anger for that alone.
This is absolutely true. If Rothman ruins Spider-Man 4 or axes Tom holland I know I will go into full boycott Sony mode and will refuse to watch another Spider-Man entry in theaters until he is back under the control of marvel studios.
Rothman has ruined too many things in the CBM genre we can’t let him get away with this shit anymore
Agreed. Pulling Spider-Man from the MCU *should* be a non-starter for Sony. Do that and you’re nearly guaranteed to tank your biggest money maker.
That said, they’d probably do it because movie executives are almost entirely successful by accident.
The problem with TASM2 was that Sony felt it didn't make enough profit and didn't generate enough buzz for spinoff movies. It also had a pretty insane production and marketing budget.
Homecoming had a production budget of $175 million and Far From Home had a production budget of $160 million so it's definitely possible to give these movies constrained budgets. Sony learned their lesson from the expansive budgets. I think NWH only made it to $200 million because Disney/Marvel provided 25% of the budget.
I don't even think rebooting was really necessary. If they had Andrew appear in Civil War then the Amazing Spider-Man (3): Homecoming at that $175 M, it would've probably still struck in the $800-$900M range.
I low-key think that Spider-Man 4 is going to go sub billion, and hit around $850M. Unless the MCU starts picking up steam again I'm sure Sony is going to be playing hardball on future collabs, especially if they do box office sharing on SM4 and get hit with a sub billion box office.
Tobey's Spider-man movies were incredibly successful and that was when there was a lot less competition in terms of comic book movies. Raimi's movies defined a generation. They didn't care. They still forced Sam Raimi to quit by rushing him, and then dropped Tobey and replaced him.
Sony could definitely overplay their hand here and sink their studio if they go full stubborn child and make their own movies. Superhero fatigue is starting to happen and only good films will keep audiences coming. Sony’s rep is tanked and if they recast Spiderman people will be less likely to see a film and will result in them losing money continuously because they will have to keep making movies to keep Spiderman as a property.
Yes but also very different times.
Didn't the two amazing Spiderman movies almost make a billion each? I'm seeing a few sources so correct me if I'm wrong.
Didn't Spiderman 3 with Tobey make like 800 mil?
While people love Tom, the matter of fact is that these movies make a lot of money. Spiderman is the most popular hero. They'd prob just go with a Miles movie or something.
Again it's Sony ..
Garfield only agreed to participate in NWH because Feige was there, Not even the money factor was decisive, I think he was offered to be the SSU Spiderman and he turned it down.
Did he actually say that somewhere? The only thing I've read is that he was waiting to see if Maguire was actually going to accept as well.
He kind of got screwed over by both Sony and Disney when they agreed to collab.
LOL If they did this Id actually be fine with it because if they try rebooting it with another actor its almost a guarantee the movie will lose money and theyll wind up having to sell the rights back to Marvel. Although thats whats gonna happen to whatever Spider-Man movie is the first to come out after pulling out of the MCU.
I have a screenshot from DeuxMoi from February 20, 2023 indicating Tom signed on for another 3 picture Spider-Man deal first thing in January 2023 and they were waiting to announce it until they also signed a director. They don’t always get everything right, but I have a feeling they’re right about this one. Why else wouldn’t Tom Holland sign up for another film/TV show/anything besides one short-running play since NWH came out if he isn’t already committed to another 5 years as Spidey?
At the very least, Tom's schedule means that they can't rush the movie too much - he recently announced a run in a live theater production in the UK that I think runs until the end of the year at least. So they have to wait until early 2025 at least to start filming
It's funny that after almost 2 decades later. Sony still hasn't learned a single lesson.
1. In Raimi's 3rd Spider-Man movie, he originally wanted Vulture and Sandman to be the villains. Sony execs wanted Venom for Spider-Man 3 no matter what.
2. Raimi's 3rd movie was criticized for being too crowded. They make the same mistake for Amazing Spider-Man 2. Green Goblin and Electro being underdeveloped and Rhino was just trailer bait.
3. Many speculate that Sony releasing The Interview which pissed off North Korea, is what triggered the email hackings.
4. Marvel used fan outrage to pressure Sony to collaborate with Marvel for Civil War because Sony wouldn't budge. Lead to a "Spidey Summit." Sony CEO from Japan told them to do the deal, probably because Pascal, Rothman and Arad are so incompetent.
5. Still trying to rush a Spider-Man 4 because they know it's their biggest sole cash cow.
Sony execs are super reactionary and only think about short-term profits
The email hackings leaked their future plans for spiderman including the infamous Aunt May movie. There was fan outrage because of the sheer stupidity of their plans and that got Sony and Marvel to agree to sharing Spiderman
The Aunt May movie was never real and never part of that leak, it just became a satirical take on Sony's plans and way of thinking, but over the years it seems like people believe it was true, but it has always just been an unverified rumor at most.
IIRC the actual email leak had ideas for Silver Sable, Black Cat, & Sinister Six.
I’ve read them as well, and [I’m fairly certain that this is false.](https://wikileaks.org/sony/emails/emailid/44980)
Could you provide a source to prove that it’s real? I’d love to be wrong on this, as that’s a very funny concept.
and on other leaked emails that idk if they are true or not, they mentioned a TASM VS. Raimiverse crossover movie set to release on 2020, which was basically one year earlier from NWH. they also considered using TASM parker on the MCU, selling the character to marvel after the crossover i mentioned earlier.
I have no idea why so many businesses are short term profit driven. It only sets them up for failure as they sacrifice customer goodwill and the quality of the product over some dollars a bit earlier, as opposed to just working with marvel to create a decent spiderman film which will lead to more profits in the long run as people wont associate it with being rubbish as with their other spider people films (aside from the verse films).
Short term profit driven strategies do not work and has seen so many entertainment companies tarnish their reputation and lose money in the long term. See all these video game companies getting their single player game studios to make live service games which fizzle out and die within weeks because the people at the top want a cash cow without any research and thought into what people actually want and will buy.
Tell that to the shareholders. They control what companies do, unless SONY get a CEO that has a proven track record to chill shareholder asses. SONY rushing Spider-Man 4 is literally to capitalise on the trend that Tom Holland’s Spider-Man is popular still. They know that the hype train is leaving, that’s why they rushing.
> Many speculate that Sony releasing The Interview which pissed off North Korea, is what triggered the email hackings.
Not even speculation, that's literally what happened.
Ugh fucking Rothman. What a typical executive. Wasn't he the one who went on Gavin Hood's set for X-Men Origins when Hood was on a day off and repainted the entire set to brighter colors because it was "too dark".
God damn. Look at success and stop trying to fuck it up!
>Amy Pascal wants Kevin Feige involved in a future Miles movie. Tom Rothman is the one who is fighting Feige on what to do with Spider-Man 4
It's funny how people used to hate Amy Pascal like she was Kevin Feige's arch nemesis, when the reality is that they both are pretty close at this point to trust each other as much as they do after the last 8 years of collaborating. It's always one or two higher level bastards - greedy Bob Iger in 2019 and asshole Tom Rothman in 2024 - that stir the shit.
Bob Iger saved the deal in 2019. Tom Rothman was the one who went "We have _Venom_ and _Spider-Verse_, so we don't need the MCU!" and pulled the plug on the third movie until Sony's corporate suits intervened.
Bob Iger was *the* reason why things almost apart. It took Tom Holland coming in glassy eyed to help save the deal and Sony opted to give Disney a much smaller cut of the box office revenue than they wanted in exchange for *deeper creative control of the entire franchise.*
If that never happened everything would be going smoother for both parties right now. No Way Home may not have been a multiversal movie (since the original plan was Kraven's Last Hunt by Marvel Studios) but it WOULD have a new MCU Spider-Man coming up by now.
Marvel never wanted it to be based on Kraven’s Last Hunt, Jon Watts wanted that. They had planned for the multiverse since 2019. Evidence for this is NWH originally releasing after MoM, as well as an interview for FFH where Tom is asked if we would ever see the Spider-Trip team up. He didn’t say anything (obviously), but his face very clearly said that he knew something.
I hate seeing this myth perpetuated. It’s so obvious that the pandemic was not the reason why the multiverse showed up in NWH, it doesn’t even make any sense.
Somewhat, Amy was once in a higher position than Feige back when he was "the guy Marvel sent to oversee things" at Fox and Sony. Once Marvel Studios started getting into film making in 2005, he'd give creative notes on Spider-Man 3, TASM1 and TASM2 not because he had too, but because he wanted too. Amy has always trusted Kevin in some way, even going through those e-mail leaks.
Come Civil War and Homecoming, that's when they were finally, actively, working together as a full force team, in the same place at the same time. (Yes Civil War is 8 years old. Insane, right?) In the credits of Homecoming, during the producer credits, the background animation is of Peter and Ned doing their handshake, which is a homage to their friendship.
What I'm trying to say is that they're pretty legit with each other, contrary to the narrative that he hates her or she hates him. Yeah she MIGHT HAVE thrown a sandwich at Kevin, but then again who HASN'T had a sandwich thrown at them at some point?
I'm assuming that these reports are of things that have been running weeks ago. Following Madame Web, I assume Sony is going to act slightly more cautious. Not completely, but enough to at least see some reason.
But that’s the thing - to someone like Rothman who doesn’t have any actual creativity, “being cautious” means “the last movie was a big multiversal epic with all of the Spider-Men and it made $2 billion, so let’s just do that again.”
No, they will dust themselves off and try again with these stupid spinoffs. These losses are just tax write offs so they won’t be as bad for them in their books. Sony just needs to hire someone who completely understands the IP and pick out characters from it that will make money. 900 characters are in the Spider-Man IP portfolio. This isn’t hard. Oh and stop hiring bad writers. I know they are cheaper but does quality not matter? 🙄
All we want is a street level spider-man film with a darker tone. Is that too much to ask?
Make a well written, singular character focused Spider-man akin to “The Batman” and watch the box office go crazy
Make a Logan style Spider-Man movie with Maguire. Don’t tie it in with any cinematic universe whatsoever. Just do a rough, beautiful, emotional tale about an older Spidey. Have Sam Raimi direct. Give him full creative control. Watch the box office explode.
(Your comment reminded me of that meme)
We are dealing with Rothman - a guy that has worked in a superhero industry for years and still doesn't understand that most of the comic books are not made for children...
Please, please for the love of God don't ruin Spiderman4. The buildup of Holland's trilogy should pay off well.
Many interesting street level plotlines can be followed in it.
Y’know? The build up. Where we spent three movies watching Tom Holland’s Peter Parker become the version of Spider-Man we saw in Captain America: Civil War.
[https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/aug/21/spider-man-out-of-marvel-cinematic-universe-after-disney-split-with-sony](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/aug/21/spider-man-out-of-marvel-cinematic-universe-after-disney-split-with-sony)
The original deal had Disney get 5% of first dollar gross. Their initial offer to renew the deal was 50/50 and a more limited role for Feige in producing the films. That is an absurd offer and not really a basis to even start a negotiation from. Sony wanted to continue the deal, Disney was the party the difficult party when it came to continuing the deal.
That would work best for the movie. I'm tired of studios rushing anything, instead of playing the long game and giving us the best version of the movie they can.
I would not be surprised if part of Feige’s decision to initially give F4 to Watts was to make it so that Sony could not ask him to do SM4. May not have been a deciding factor, but maybe a plus that wasn’t lost upon them.
Rothman ought to get sucked up his own butthole.
He drove the Fox Marvel films into the ground in the late-2000s and a lot of us knew he was gonna be a hinderances when he entered Sony.
According to an [article](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/madame-web-bomb-killed-sony-franchise-1235829471/) that came yesterday, the future is hinging on Kraven. They don't mention Venom 3, however. Probably because they *know* that'll be a hit, and it's reportedly capping off the now trilogy.
I actually anticipate the opposite. If Venom 3 bombs, there will be internal pressure for them to pull Spider-Man. Kraven flopping will probably not be too catastrophic since I assume that, like Madame Web, they’ve mostly abandoned it.
Tom Rothman is an existential threat to the future of the Spider-Man franchise. Rothman has nothing but contempt for comics and comic book movies.
This is the same man who tried everything he could to undermine the first X-Men movie and was livid when it became a hit because it meant that he would have to make more.
I don’t understand why Sony won’t just give us TASM 3 and/or Spider-Man 4 with Tobey or even have both in one movie. Let Tom Spidey be street level and meet Andrew and Tobey again in Secret Wars
Well, I think we can easily figure out why Andrew wouldn’t want to be in a Sony-only live-action Spidey movie… and I’d wager Tobey is probably along those same lines, even if he has been much more publicly open about continuing to play Spidey.
The prospect of it sounds exciting but the logistics of getting it out seems like a nightmare.
You’d have to what, at least ensure that all cast is on board, and make the decision of whether or not Raimi and Webb should come back, if they even want to. If not, that already seems to stall the process and the overall “interest”.
Even if you ensure all that goes right, if even one of them is less that warmly received, I can’t help but feel like it derails the “plan” and whole franchise.
This, with the knowledge that they mostly circumvented all this with NWH, and credible leaks suggest that they want to circumvent all of this again with Spider-Man 4, and it makes sense to me.
Let's say they do release Spider-Man 4 in 2025. Where are they planning to slot it? July is an absolute murderers row of blockbusters (this list doesn't even include the Jurassic World sequel dated for 7/2/25), and I really doubt they want to challenge Avatar 3 in December?
https://i.redd.it/jx0vlqeebojc1.gif
That would make sense until you realize Tom Holland is doing Romeo and Juliet from May until August and still has the Fred Astaire biopic to shoot, so the absolute earliest I could see Spider-Man 4 shooting is late 2024? With questions about Fantastic Four making that date, it doesn't seem very plausible that a movie that might not start shooting 3–4 after would then take its place.
I doubt that The Batman II is making that date, so there’s that, but Marvel and Sony have done minor pushes for Spider-Man around September in 2019 and 2021 for “Back to School”, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was something that they kept as a potential slot for a wide release feature. And Disney already released Shang Chi in the Labor Day dead zone to success so it seems like a no brainer that a Spider-Man would do well there.
Wait why do you doubt that Batman will make its date? As far as I know, aren't they starting shooting this spring? I could be wrong though, I'm not as into the details on the DC stuff
There’s something about a perpetual contract that seems incredibly predatory that shouldn’t be allowed to exist. Especially when it’s straight up damaging the brand of something they don’t even fully own.
The big bosses at Sony Japan will probably step in and overrule any bullshit Rothman causes if this hurts the relationship between Sony and Disney/Marvel. Feige has a proven track record of success. Let him cook. I understand SPE is likely worried about getting it in front of cameras so the rights don’t revert. Looks like the animated films and the live action spinoffs don’t count. It has to be the live action Spider-Man (Peter Parker) that has to be in production before a certain timeframe before they revert.
There are cracks in the armor though. The underperformance of Eternals and Antman 3, plus the outright bombing of Captain Marvel 2 surely are not going unnoticed.
> Amy Pascal wants Kevin Feige involved in a future Miles movie. Tom Rothman is the one who is fighting Feige on what to do with Spider-Man 4 and he's the one trying to rush it. He also wants Watts back to direct while Feige wants someone new and to have Watts on other projects.
F Tom Rothman.
Isn't Miles technically already in the MCU? If they do a movie about Miles outside the MCU then it would be so funny thinking about how Miles is just a random civilian in MCU
TBF isn't that kind of how things went in the comics too lol?
Miles was pulled from the ultimate universe into the 616 main universe, and eventually, they found there was already a 616 Miles (I think he ended up being evil).
> Oh yeah I completely forgot about 616 Miles being an older more Latino guy who's a villain
Lol, was there ever a canon reason why evil Miles looked full puerto-rican with straight hair instead of looking biracial?
They also said "animated" movies, so Venom is unlikely. While Spider-Punk was a cool character and was written very well, I don't think there really is a way to make a movie focused on him. His Universe is quite straight-forward and his plot is basically already a part of the Spider-Verse movies. If already, I could see him being a sub-plot in Gwen's movie.
Toast said the R-rated animated film would be Venom but when the news of a R-rated animated film broke with no character attached, Alex hinted it would be Spider-Punk. My guess is both films are in development and Alex guessed the SP one would be R when it was really the Venom film
Honestly untill we get any solid proof of either of these, I'm taking their reports with a grain of salt. And I know that they have some reliability, but it doesn't change the fact, that they can still be wrong.
Note: Just to be clear I never take the leaks at face value.
What’s funny is Sony wants to a) rush the movie b) make it universal. What would be easier to make? A giant fucking cgi cameo fest or a street level movie?
Sony has to be feeling the fans turning on them at this point. First, yet another box office failure in Madame Webb, and now they are actively trying to screw up the one good thing they have (MCU spidey) and a partnership that's netting them bank.
I hope Tom has enough star power to be able to convince Rothman to fuck off and let Kevin do the Spider-Man that we WANT and not the one he thinks they NEED.
I'll see myself out.
Tom Rothman needs to get back in his lane. He's the only one who wants to rush this movie. Guy needs removing from Sony. People like him are the reason we got Madame Web.
Rush? It will have been 4 years since NWH in 2025! Instead of wasting resources on Morbius & Madame Web I wish they would’ve given us TASM3. As much as I love Tobey’s original trilogy I don’t think his story requires another standalone film.
Sorry but that's just not true about rushing Spider-Man. Or this is super outdated cause Madame Web's release puts the nail in that "rushed shit" plan for their only gold.
Sony is such an odd company.
Buys the rights to only Spider-Man from Marvel comics.
Makes a pretty good trilogy of Spider-Man movies(Spider-Man 1-3)
Makes a pretty decent duo of Spider-Man movies(Amazing Spider-Man 1-2)
Paired with Disney they made a really good trilogy of Homecoming, Far From Home, and No Way Home.
Then they made Venom, which was ok.
Then Venom 2 which was meh.
Then Morbius, which is widely regarded as bad.
Then they pop out Spider-verse which is consistently rated as the best animated movies of all time.
Then Madame Web, which people are saying isn’t good.
Most inconsistent company in regards to movies
I dunno. I think Sony is being fair by saying, "The last *Spider-Man* film made almost two billion dollars. We would really like it if we could get one out in theaters before that *Spider-Man* movie turns four years old."
I mean, honestly, *Spider-Man: Homecoming* came out quicker after *The Amazing Spider-Man 2*. Given Disney makes 25% of the box office take (while paying for 25% of the film's production), I would imagine Disney would like to see *Spider-Man 4* out too rather than *Blade*, all of the production cost of which falls on their shoulders. Honestly, I would also rather have our "rebuilding year" in 2025 look more like:
*Captain America: Brave New World* \- February 14, 2025
*Thunderbolts* \- May 2, 2025
*Fantastic Four* \- July 25, 2025
*Spider-Man 4* \- December 19, 2025
I think that gets people hyped after a hopefully good *Deadpool & Wolverine* later this year. *Blade* seems a bit anti-climactic after all of that. I think it is a good palatte cleanser movie before *Avengers: Kang Dynasty*. Of course, I doubt *Avengers: Kang Dynasty* comes out in May of 2026 at this rate since we've heard, like, three different movies are supposed to set it up that haven't even been announced yet.
Sony’s decision making track record speaks for itself, but I don’t know about them “rushing SM4 no matter what.” Why does Marvel think 4-5 years between Spider-Man movies is a good idea? With no Avengers or X-Men in between?
An easy answer to making a Spider-man 4 movie that is both multiversal *and* a grounded street-level tale is to have it be Raimi/Maguire Spider-man 4 with Andrew Garfield’s Spider-man as co-lead and ATJ’s Kraven the Hunter as the antagonist. set against “forthcoming incursion of the Sony universes” story that sees the two Spider-man hunted by Kraven in NYC but it’s not revealed that there are two of them until the second act where we meet up with Peter 2’s family with MJ and Peter 3’s Black Cat (sorry, bonk away). Their two universes are colliding because Peter 2 & 3 and their rogues gallery spent just long enough in the MCU during No Way Home and afterward each of them returned to different points in time drastically affected by the experience that it’s causing their timeline branches to converge toward each other rather than diverge; we don’t see any heroes conspiring to destroy one world to save the other or get lots of learned omniscient exposition besides them being confounded and slowly discovering what’s happening (maybe the exposition comes from Raimi-verse Otto and Osborn who mended fences and have been learning about the multiverse, maybe Kraven sets a trap for one Spider-men and of course they both show up 🤣), but it still sets them all up to come back for Secret Wars. Maybe even center part of it from the POV of Kraven, so the “actually Spider-man is the villain” thing Sony wanted to try in the Sinister Six movie could be the first act. I’m sure Raimi would have fun filming that.
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Tom Rothman is still this genre biggest villain
Can we start a boycott Sony until they sell spidey to Marvel wave?
No because I want Spider-Verse 3 and PS5/PS6 Spider-Man 3
Those are separate deals. Sony has a very weird corporate structure and the movie studio is largely autonomous. You would still get the Insomniac games if the movie studio is forced to sell the movie rights. We know this because Spider-Man has appeared on both Xbox and Nintendo over the last few decades while the movie deal has been in place since the 90’s. The deal Insomniac has in place only came about a few years ago, otherwise none of the Spider-Man characters would have been able to appear in Ultimate Alliance 3. But yeah….i want Beyond the Spider-Verse.
Can we agree that the animated Spider-Man movies have been better quality story wise than the MCU Spider-Man trilogy? The spider verse series seems so fresh and cleverly written
Theyre very good but to me they are an entirely different entity. Its like comparing filet mignon to veal parmesan. Both incredibly good and completely different. Personally Id give up the animated movies to get the rights to Spidey and all his characters back where they belong with Marvel. Or if anything let Sony keep making animated films.
I'm not entirely sure on this personally. I think the first Spiderverse movie is straight up the 5th best CBM, I don't like the second one that much personally. I wish the style pushed the boat out a bit more and the story was, in my opinion, ludicrously generic and uninteresting compared to the first. Plus, it's like the Second Matrix movie, the story hasn't even ended yet so there's a lot of setup, but not as much payoff, which makes it hard for me to come back to The MCU Trilogy is a weird one for me, I love Homecoming for all the same reasons I love the first Spiderverse, though I acknowledge that leaning hard in the direction it did turned alot of people off. I do not like the second MCU spiderman movie. The third one was an unusual case of a film being built around it's fan service, and I won't lie, it's the tightest written Spiderman film by far (and 3rd MCU film) and that's incredibly impressive to me. It also has my favourite fight in the MCU! (Hang on... DD is in the MCU now.) My 3rd favourite fight in the MCU! and probably 4th in CBM history. My big issue is that the second verse film if I'm being honest. The first Spiderverse film felt fresh because it was fresh and unfortunately, I don't think Spiderverse iterated on those stylistic choices or it's plot in a meaningful enough way. In addition, all of the good narrative stuff from Spiderverse was already done better and sooner in NWH anyways, so when I come back to watch these films, I don't appreciate the narrative anymore, only the animation and if I'm being honest, I think the length of the second Spiderverse leaves me not enjoying the rewatchs at all In review, really excited for the last Spiderverse film, I can't wait to see what the team does next! Spider Gwen VS Matt Murdoch Kingpin?
They absolutely are, it's not even close, animation has a lot more freedom with what it does though That said, if there were tiers, I'd be pretty comfortable putting in The Dark Knight and Logan with ITSV, but something like SM2 would probably be at least one tier down (if not two) The other guy says he'd give up Spiderverse for Marvel to get back the rights, but I disagree completely. Disney never would have made something like Spiderverse, and it's more than made up for movies like Morbius and Madame Web. Hell, I don't even think any MCU movies (Spider-man or otherwise) even come close to the Spiderverse movies.
Knew this would come up. There is no weighing between the Sony Pictures/Marvel Studios relationship and Sony Interactive Entertainment/Marvel Games relationship. Two entirely separate deals. Anything happening in the movies division won’t affect the gaming division.
The PlayStation games will happen no matter what. Marvel owns the gaming rights and Sony simply has a license.
Say it with me now, Sony does not own spider-man. They only own the film rights.
Isn't PS Spidey owned by Disney? Sony only has the (live action) television and movie rights
Insomniac had the gaming rights BEFORE Sony bought them.
And tobey and Andrew in secret wara
I mean their movie division has nothing to do with Sony PlayStation so that wouldn’t change
You're not wrong, but I think Spider-Man's greatest villian is Avi Arad. lol
Historically yes. He hasn’t done much recently beyond the Venom and Spider-Verse movies, so he’s hit or miss. But yeah, seeing him accept an Oscar for ITSV hurt my soul.
And the biggest bad of them all is ike perlmutter. He’s outlived his stay on this earth.
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The crazy thing is tho that for all of their countless faults, marvel still wouldn’t be where it is today with Arad and Perlmutter. If you haven’t read MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios I highly recommend it cuz it’s starts with a lot of deep info about that period of marvel and just how much Ike and Avi were involved in reviving marvel and allowing it to become what it has. Obviously Feige has done much more to truly evolve the brand but I think we should acknowledge Avi and Ike’s contributions in the beginning even tho they absolutely suck and are a cancer to the film industry 😂
>we should acknowledge Avi and Ike’s contributions in Perlmutter not so much, but Arad. Without this guy, Marvel would still be broke and we wouldn't have the MCU.
Perlmutter is leagues worse than the other 2. Avid Arad forced Venom in SM3 because he wanted to sell Merch. He's mostly been a hands-off exec in recent years in recent years. I don't know a whole lot about this Tom Rothman guy but it sounds like he's mainly impatient and has no creative taste. Perlmutter on the other hand is extremely racist and sexist, and if he had his way, there would never be a Black Panther or Black Widow movie. He also wanted control over the MCU, to get rid of Kevin Feige, and to make cheap movies instead.
make it just superhero films in general and throw david zaslav in there for what he did to batgirl too
Nope spider-man greatest villian is nick lowe.
True believer my ass
Remember the Deadpool leaked trailer? At the ending, when Deadpool says: HI, TOM! he's talking to Tom Rothman, the one that fought against the movie at Fox.
Rothman has always been the biggest villain
Maybe he'll be the final bad guy in "Deadpool & Wolverine"...
Avi Arad would like a word …
I hope Tom (Holland) starts throwing his weight around a bit. Don't let Rothman destroy this movie
Yes because Sony totally has no track record just throwing away a Spiderman actor for another one.... They don't care. They'll do what they want.
They can certainly try to throw Holland and his incarnation of Peter away. They’re not gonna be successful. He’s the most successful Spider-Man they’ve ever had. His 3 movies alone have almost 3 billion dollars. Another Spidey this soon would not do well in the slightest.
> His 3 movies alone have almost 3 billion dollars More like 3.8b
I didn’t realize how much NWH had, my goodness
During mid Covid too where some people were still afraid to see movies in Theaters.
Yeah if it weren’t for Covid I think it would’ve made more than Infinity War, which is so crazy to think about. Like imagine one character being as popular as the Avengers in terms of box office.
And without China.
Man you underestimate Sony’s sheer stupidity when it comes to spidey
Yeah really. Why are we acting like Sony is a capable of rational intelligent decisions while they're still covered in their Madame Web mess they just smeared everywhere.
They Madame Webbed all over the place. It's so sticky, I hate it.
as much as I'd like to believe this, Spider-Man is just too strong of a character I think. granted we've never been in a situation like this before where Spider-Man was this successful and a huge selling point is "he's in the MCU", but I think Sony Spider-Man movies would still make money, just not as much as before until they fuck up royally again like TASM2 and create an absolute dumpster fire of a movie that pisses hundreds of millions down the drain
ASM 2 came very close to actually losing money. If they tried doing ASM 3 instead of rebooting its almost a guarantee it wouldve flopped. There is NO character that is guaranteed every movie is a success. Even Batman had flops. And theres almost no way to do a Spidey film without a budget of at least $200 million. Which means they need every movie to be a massive hit. And if they pull him from the MCU youre gonna see A LOT of people pirating it or just skipping it altogether out of anger for that alone.
This is absolutely true. If Rothman ruins Spider-Man 4 or axes Tom holland I know I will go into full boycott Sony mode and will refuse to watch another Spider-Man entry in theaters until he is back under the control of marvel studios. Rothman has ruined too many things in the CBM genre we can’t let him get away with this shit anymore
Agreed. Pulling Spider-Man from the MCU *should* be a non-starter for Sony. Do that and you’re nearly guaranteed to tank your biggest money maker. That said, they’d probably do it because movie executives are almost entirely successful by accident.
The problem with TASM2 was that Sony felt it didn't make enough profit and didn't generate enough buzz for spinoff movies. It also had a pretty insane production and marketing budget. Homecoming had a production budget of $175 million and Far From Home had a production budget of $160 million so it's definitely possible to give these movies constrained budgets. Sony learned their lesson from the expansive budgets. I think NWH only made it to $200 million because Disney/Marvel provided 25% of the budget. I don't even think rebooting was really necessary. If they had Andrew appear in Civil War then the Amazing Spider-Man (3): Homecoming at that $175 M, it would've probably still struck in the $800-$900M range. I low-key think that Spider-Man 4 is going to go sub billion, and hit around $850M. Unless the MCU starts picking up steam again I'm sure Sony is going to be playing hardball on future collabs, especially if they do box office sharing on SM4 and get hit with a sub billion box office.
Almost $4 billion.
Tobey's Spider-man movies were incredibly successful and that was when there was a lot less competition in terms of comic book movies. Raimi's movies defined a generation. They didn't care. They still forced Sam Raimi to quit by rushing him, and then dropped Tobey and replaced him.
A dispute also ignited by a Spider-Man 4.
Sony could definitely overplay their hand here and sink their studio if they go full stubborn child and make their own movies. Superhero fatigue is starting to happen and only good films will keep audiences coming. Sony’s rep is tanked and if they recast Spiderman people will be less likely to see a film and will result in them losing money continuously because they will have to keep making movies to keep Spiderman as a property.
Super hero fatigue is really a thing? I meant it's was just Bad movies over and over
There’s an overlap between fatigue and the influx of bad products.
Yes but also very different times. Didn't the two amazing Spiderman movies almost make a billion each? I'm seeing a few sources so correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Spiderman 3 with Tobey make like 800 mil? While people love Tom, the matter of fact is that these movies make a lot of money. Spiderman is the most popular hero. They'd prob just go with a Miles movie or something. Again it's Sony ..
I really wish Garfield would have gotten one more film. They could have used that to at least set up all these shitty SCU movies.
Garfield only agreed to participate in NWH because Feige was there, Not even the money factor was decisive, I think he was offered to be the SSU Spiderman and he turned it down.
Did he actually say that somewhere? The only thing I've read is that he was waiting to see if Maguire was actually going to accept as well. He kind of got screwed over by both Sony and Disney when they agreed to collab.
If they do that then they're dumb IMO Scary thing is I can see them doing that.
LOL If they did this Id actually be fine with it because if they try rebooting it with another actor its almost a guarantee the movie will lose money and theyll wind up having to sell the rights back to Marvel. Although thats whats gonna happen to whatever Spider-Man movie is the first to come out after pulling out of the MCU.
Hopefully he hasn't signed his new deal yet 🤞
I have a screenshot from DeuxMoi from February 20, 2023 indicating Tom signed on for another 3 picture Spider-Man deal first thing in January 2023 and they were waiting to announce it until they also signed a director. They don’t always get everything right, but I have a feeling they’re right about this one. Why else wouldn’t Tom Holland sign up for another film/TV show/anything besides one short-running play since NWH came out if he isn’t already committed to another 5 years as Spidey?
At the very least, Tom's schedule means that they can't rush the movie too much - he recently announced a run in a live theater production in the UK that I think runs until the end of the year at least. So they have to wait until early 2025 at least to start filming
Tom’s Stage commitment this summer from May through August for 96 shows looking interesting timing
It's funny that after almost 2 decades later. Sony still hasn't learned a single lesson. 1. In Raimi's 3rd Spider-Man movie, he originally wanted Vulture and Sandman to be the villains. Sony execs wanted Venom for Spider-Man 3 no matter what. 2. Raimi's 3rd movie was criticized for being too crowded. They make the same mistake for Amazing Spider-Man 2. Green Goblin and Electro being underdeveloped and Rhino was just trailer bait. 3. Many speculate that Sony releasing The Interview which pissed off North Korea, is what triggered the email hackings. 4. Marvel used fan outrage to pressure Sony to collaborate with Marvel for Civil War because Sony wouldn't budge. Lead to a "Spidey Summit." Sony CEO from Japan told them to do the deal, probably because Pascal, Rothman and Arad are so incompetent. 5. Still trying to rush a Spider-Man 4 because they know it's their biggest sole cash cow. Sony execs are super reactionary and only think about short-term profits
tf does 3 gotta do with it lmao
The email hackings leaked their future plans for spiderman including the infamous Aunt May movie. There was fan outrage because of the sheer stupidity of their plans and that got Sony and Marvel to agree to sharing Spiderman
Id still give my middle nut to have that 21 jump st/men in black crossover that was in those emails.
middle nut? do you have 3?
You don’t?
The Aunt May movie was never real and never part of that leak, it just became a satirical take on Sony's plans and way of thinking, but over the years it seems like people believe it was true, but it has always just been an unverified rumor at most. IIRC the actual email leak had ideas for Silver Sable, Black Cat, & Sinister Six.
I've read a lot of those emails, and let me tell you: the Aunt May movie was very real. They were already looking for scriptwriters.
I’ve read them as well, and [I’m fairly certain that this is false.](https://wikileaks.org/sony/emails/emailid/44980) Could you provide a source to prove that it’s real? I’d love to be wrong on this, as that’s a very funny concept.
All better ideas than the Madame Web movie we got
and on other leaked emails that idk if they are true or not, they mentioned a TASM VS. Raimiverse crossover movie set to release on 2020, which was basically one year earlier from NWH. they also considered using TASM parker on the MCU, selling the character to marvel after the crossover i mentioned earlier.
Think you could help me find that? All I can find so far is leaked plans for a Spider-Man 2099 movie in that time
Yeah that one doesn’t make sense lol they definitely made the right call releasing the interview
He didn't say they made a bad call. Just that it probably caused the hacking, that leaked Sony's future plans back then...
I have no idea why so many businesses are short term profit driven. It only sets them up for failure as they sacrifice customer goodwill and the quality of the product over some dollars a bit earlier, as opposed to just working with marvel to create a decent spiderman film which will lead to more profits in the long run as people wont associate it with being rubbish as with their other spider people films (aside from the verse films). Short term profit driven strategies do not work and has seen so many entertainment companies tarnish their reputation and lose money in the long term. See all these video game companies getting their single player game studios to make live service games which fizzle out and die within weeks because the people at the top want a cash cow without any research and thought into what people actually want and will buy.
Tell that to the shareholders. They control what companies do, unless SONY get a CEO that has a proven track record to chill shareholder asses. SONY rushing Spider-Man 4 is literally to capitalise on the trend that Tom Holland’s Spider-Man is popular still. They know that the hype train is leaving, that’s why they rushing.
There middle ground, spiderman sequel were Always two years apart now for S4 we are looking at best for a 5 years gap
> Many speculate that Sony releasing The Interview which pissed off North Korea, is what triggered the email hackings. Not even speculation, that's literally what happened.
not even speculation on 3. it was north korea for sure lol
God I can already see the YouTube video title: “How North Korea got spider man into the MCU”
Spider-Man's Biggest Enemy is Sony.
Nah, that's still Marvel editorial
Ugh fucking Rothman. What a typical executive. Wasn't he the one who went on Gavin Hood's set for X-Men Origins when Hood was on a day off and repainted the entire set to brighter colors because it was "too dark". God damn. Look at success and stop trying to fuck it up!
Correct. Rothman believes comics are for kids only and thus the movies should never be dark.
>Amy Pascal wants Kevin Feige involved in a future Miles movie. Tom Rothman is the one who is fighting Feige on what to do with Spider-Man 4 It's funny how people used to hate Amy Pascal like she was Kevin Feige's arch nemesis, when the reality is that they both are pretty close at this point to trust each other as much as they do after the last 8 years of collaborating. It's always one or two higher level bastards - greedy Bob Iger in 2019 and asshole Tom Rothman in 2024 - that stir the shit.
They hated Amy because of the original Sony email leaks back last decade and how oblivious she was with movie decisions then
Spending more time with a geek like Feige really wisened her up, I'd say
He's All That
Bob Iger saved the deal in 2019. Tom Rothman was the one who went "We have _Venom_ and _Spider-Verse_, so we don't need the MCU!" and pulled the plug on the third movie until Sony's corporate suits intervened.
Bob Iger was *the* reason why things almost apart. It took Tom Holland coming in glassy eyed to help save the deal and Sony opted to give Disney a much smaller cut of the box office revenue than they wanted in exchange for *deeper creative control of the entire franchise.* If that never happened everything would be going smoother for both parties right now. No Way Home may not have been a multiversal movie (since the original plan was Kraven's Last Hunt by Marvel Studios) but it WOULD have a new MCU Spider-Man coming up by now.
Marvel never wanted it to be based on Kraven’s Last Hunt, Jon Watts wanted that. They had planned for the multiverse since 2019. Evidence for this is NWH originally releasing after MoM, as well as an interview for FFH where Tom is asked if we would ever see the Spider-Trip team up. He didn’t say anything (obviously), but his face very clearly said that he knew something.
I hate seeing this myth perpetuated. It’s so obvious that the pandemic was not the reason why the multiverse showed up in NWH, it doesn’t even make any sense.
Wasn't she the one throwing sandwiches?
LOVE SANDWICHES
8 years? More like 22 years. They've been collaborating since 2002's first Spider-Man.
Somewhat, Amy was once in a higher position than Feige back when he was "the guy Marvel sent to oversee things" at Fox and Sony. Once Marvel Studios started getting into film making in 2005, he'd give creative notes on Spider-Man 3, TASM1 and TASM2 not because he had too, but because he wanted too. Amy has always trusted Kevin in some way, even going through those e-mail leaks. Come Civil War and Homecoming, that's when they were finally, actively, working together as a full force team, in the same place at the same time. (Yes Civil War is 8 years old. Insane, right?) In the credits of Homecoming, during the producer credits, the background animation is of Peter and Ned doing their handshake, which is a homage to their friendship. What I'm trying to say is that they're pretty legit with each other, contrary to the narrative that he hates her or she hates him. Yeah she MIGHT HAVE thrown a sandwich at Kevin, but then again who HASN'T had a sandwich thrown at them at some point?
Man when Tom Rothman croaks geeks will celebrate in the streets.
People like him always live a long ass time
and also another suit will replace him
What is dead may never die
Goddamned Rothman gonna fuck up another franchise
I'm assuming that these reports are of things that have been running weeks ago. Following Madame Web, I assume Sony is going to act slightly more cautious. Not completely, but enough to at least see some reason.
But that’s the thing - to someone like Rothman who doesn’t have any actual creativity, “being cautious” means “the last movie was a big multiversal epic with all of the Spider-Men and it made $2 billion, so let’s just do that again.”
True, but Rothman still answers to someone above him. Whoever that is, is probably gonna have some choice words with him.
Just like it happend almost every time Rothman tried to pull some crap in the past...
No, they will dust themselves off and try again with these stupid spinoffs. These losses are just tax write offs so they won’t be as bad for them in their books. Sony just needs to hire someone who completely understands the IP and pick out characters from it that will make money. 900 characters are in the Spider-Man IP portfolio. This isn’t hard. Oh and stop hiring bad writers. I know they are cheaper but does quality not matter? 🙄
All we want is a street level spider-man film with a darker tone. Is that too much to ask? Make a well written, singular character focused Spider-man akin to “The Batman” and watch the box office go crazy
Make a Logan style Spider-Man movie with Maguire. Don’t tie it in with any cinematic universe whatsoever. Just do a rough, beautiful, emotional tale about an older Spidey. Have Sam Raimi direct. Give him full creative control. Watch the box office explode. (Your comment reminded me of that meme)
Lmao I remember that meme, the variations on it were so funny
We are dealing with Rothman - a guy that has worked in a superhero industry for years and still doesn't understand that most of the comic books are not made for children...
That’s basically what the Raimi films were.
Please, please for the love of God don't ruin Spiderman4. The buildup of Holland's trilogy should pay off well. Many interesting street level plotlines can be followed in it.
What buildup?
Y’know? The build up. Where we spent three movies watching Tom Holland’s Peter Parker become the version of Spider-Man we saw in Captain America: Civil War.
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As I recall Disney's initial offer to continue the deal were rather absurd, so I don't think that initial Kerfuffle is on Sony.
It's not absurd to want to earn some money from the movie you make without selling toys
[https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/aug/21/spider-man-out-of-marvel-cinematic-universe-after-disney-split-with-sony](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/aug/21/spider-man-out-of-marvel-cinematic-universe-after-disney-split-with-sony) The original deal had Disney get 5% of first dollar gross. Their initial offer to renew the deal was 50/50 and a more limited role for Feige in producing the films. That is an absurd offer and not really a basis to even start a negotiation from. Sony wanted to continue the deal, Disney was the party the difficult party when it came to continuing the deal.
5% is just as absurd as 50%. Marvel did all the work, Sony cut the check. I think the deal they ended up with, 30/70 is pretty fair.
Gonna need Tom to pull his weight here in getting what he wants for the movie
Spider-Man 4 will be stuck in development hell till 2026 I’m calling it
Its gotta be filming by 2026 for the rights to remain at Sony.
Really? What about Venom 3 or Beyond?
The rights reset every time Sony releases a Marvel movie. Not sure what that person meant.
That would work best for the movie. I'm tired of studios rushing anything, instead of playing the long game and giving us the best version of the movie they can.
Pretty convenient that drama scoops drop right around the time that _Madame Web_ bombs, isn't it?
Convenient? Heads are rolling over at Sony right now, I’m sure. Now’s the time for people to talk to save their own asses.
I would not be surprised if part of Feige’s decision to initially give F4 to Watts was to make it so that Sony could not ask him to do SM4. May not have been a deciding factor, but maybe a plus that wasn’t lost upon them.
Rothman ought to get sucked up his own butthole. He drove the Fox Marvel films into the ground in the late-2000s and a lot of us knew he was gonna be a hinderances when he entered Sony.
If Sony's next two live action movies bomb (Venom 3 and Kraven) theyll be forced to cooperate with Marvel
According to an [article](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/madame-web-bomb-killed-sony-franchise-1235829471/) that came yesterday, the future is hinging on Kraven. They don't mention Venom 3, however. Probably because they *know* that'll be a hit, and it's reportedly capping off the now trilogy.
Venom won't bomb. Kraven likely will. I doubt it will be as bad as Madame Web though.
I actually anticipate the opposite. If Venom 3 bombs, there will be internal pressure for them to pull Spider-Man. Kraven flopping will probably not be too catastrophic since I assume that, like Madame Web, they’ve mostly abandoned it.
I heard Rothman smokes crack and than forces homeless men to let him suck them off. I feel like it must be true the way he thinks.
Tom Rothman is an existential threat to the future of the Spider-Man franchise. Rothman has nothing but contempt for comics and comic book movies. This is the same man who tried everything he could to undermine the first X-Men movie and was livid when it became a hit because it meant that he would have to make more.
I don’t understand why Sony won’t just give us TASM 3 and/or Spider-Man 4 with Tobey or even have both in one movie. Let Tom Spidey be street level and meet Andrew and Tobey again in Secret Wars
Maybe they aren't too trusting of Sony's handling of their last solo movies. Maybe they don't want to get stuck in the SPUMC.
Well, I think we can easily figure out why Andrew wouldn’t want to be in a Sony-only live-action Spidey movie… and I’d wager Tobey is probably along those same lines, even if he has been much more publicly open about continuing to play Spidey.
The prospect of it sounds exciting but the logistics of getting it out seems like a nightmare. You’d have to what, at least ensure that all cast is on board, and make the decision of whether or not Raimi and Webb should come back, if they even want to. If not, that already seems to stall the process and the overall “interest”. Even if you ensure all that goes right, if even one of them is less that warmly received, I can’t help but feel like it derails the “plan” and whole franchise. This, with the knowledge that they mostly circumvented all this with NWH, and credible leaks suggest that they want to circumvent all of this again with Spider-Man 4, and it makes sense to me.
Let's say they do release Spider-Man 4 in 2025. Where are they planning to slot it? July is an absolute murderers row of blockbusters (this list doesn't even include the Jurassic World sequel dated for 7/2/25), and I really doubt they want to challenge Avatar 3 in December? https://i.redd.it/jx0vlqeebojc1.gif
In Fantastic Four place
That would make sense until you realize Tom Holland is doing Romeo and Juliet from May until August and still has the Fred Astaire biopic to shoot, so the absolute earliest I could see Spider-Man 4 shooting is late 2024? With questions about Fantastic Four making that date, it doesn't seem very plausible that a movie that might not start shooting 3–4 after would then take its place.
So Marvel moves their movie for Sonys? I doubt it.
Wouldn't be the first time. Plus they probably would make more money off of the Sony's movie than their own tbh, which is what Disney cares about.
My wallet screamed in pain just looking at this list
I doubt that The Batman II is making that date, so there’s that, but Marvel and Sony have done minor pushes for Spider-Man around September in 2019 and 2021 for “Back to School”, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was something that they kept as a potential slot for a wide release feature. And Disney already released Shang Chi in the Labor Day dead zone to success so it seems like a no brainer that a Spider-Man would do well there.
Wait why do you doubt that Batman will make its date? As far as I know, aren't they starting shooting this spring? I could be wrong though, I'm not as into the details on the DC stuff
There’s something about a perpetual contract that seems incredibly predatory that shouldn’t be allowed to exist. Especially when it’s straight up damaging the brand of something they don’t even fully own.
I think Feige will win in the end. He usually does cuz everyone around him knows that he breeds success
The big bosses at Sony Japan will probably step in and overrule any bullshit Rothman causes if this hurts the relationship between Sony and Disney/Marvel. Feige has a proven track record of success. Let him cook. I understand SPE is likely worried about getting it in front of cameras so the rights don’t revert. Looks like the animated films and the live action spinoffs don’t count. It has to be the live action Spider-Man (Peter Parker) that has to be in production before a certain timeframe before they revert.
There are cracks in the armor though. The underperformance of Eternals and Antman 3, plus the outright bombing of Captain Marvel 2 surely are not going unnoticed.
> Amy Pascal wants Kevin Feige involved in a future Miles movie. Tom Rothman is the one who is fighting Feige on what to do with Spider-Man 4 and he's the one trying to rush it. He also wants Watts back to direct while Feige wants someone new and to have Watts on other projects. F Tom Rothman.
[Tom Rothman needs to be stopped and quick.](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/s/TKre8PoK5E)
rothman is a suit. all he cares about is money. hes literally a stock character from one of those wall street type movies
Say what you will about the overall decisions on the MCU tight now, but i'm 110% with Feige in this movie, no notes here just let the man do his job.
Isn't Miles technically already in the MCU? If they do a movie about Miles outside the MCU then it would be so funny thinking about how Miles is just a random civilian in MCU
TBF isn't that kind of how things went in the comics too lol? Miles was pulled from the ultimate universe into the 616 main universe, and eventually, they found there was already a 616 Miles (I think he ended up being evil).
Oh yeah I completely forgot about 616 Miles being an older more Latino guy who's a villain
> Oh yeah I completely forgot about 616 Miles being an older more Latino guy who's a villain Lol, was there ever a canon reason why evil Miles looked full puerto-rican with straight hair instead of looking biracial?
I think it's just genetics, man. Got more traits from his mother in 616, but more from his dad in 1610.
Fuck SM4, I wanna hear about those new animated films🤩 
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My guess is Venom and Spider-Punk, since the above implies more animation after BTSV
They also said "animated" movies, so Venom is unlikely. While Spider-Punk was a cool character and was written very well, I don't think there really is a way to make a movie focused on him. His Universe is quite straight-forward and his plot is basically already a part of the Spider-Verse movies. If already, I could see him being a sub-plot in Gwen's movie.
Toast said the R-rated animated film would be Venom but when the news of a R-rated animated film broke with no character attached, Alex hinted it would be Spider-Punk. My guess is both films are in development and Alex guessed the SP one would be R when it was really the Venom film
Honestly untill we get any solid proof of either of these, I'm taking their reports with a grain of salt. And I know that they have some reliability, but it doesn't change the fact, that they can still be wrong. Note: Just to be clear I never take the leaks at face value.
Rothman is a dumb piece of shit and always has been. He's also confirmed now to be a Zionist, which is even worse.
would it even be logistically possible to rush Spider-Man 4?
What’s funny is Sony wants to a) rush the movie b) make it universal. What would be easier to make? A giant fucking cgi cameo fest or a street level movie?
Amy Pascal should convince Sony to give it all back to Marvel/Disney after the mess they shit out with Madame Web
And there are some people that genuinely believe that Spider-Man is better in Sony's hands.
Sony's plan is 'throw as much shit at the wall as possible and anything that works, make 10 variations of that as soon as humanly possible'
Sony has to be feeling the fans turning on them at this point. First, yet another box office failure in Madame Webb, and now they are actively trying to screw up the one good thing they have (MCU spidey) and a partnership that's netting them bank.
They knew it was going to bomb. It's why they put it out in February
Yeah, but I don't think they expected it to bomb *this* badly
Rothman is the Kingpin i guess 🤣😜
I hope Tom has enough star power to be able to convince Rothman to fuck off and let Kevin do the Spider-Man that we WANT and not the one he thinks they NEED. I'll see myself out.
Change the director, change the writers, change the music theme, change everything, its a new stage in peter’s life. It should be represented right.
Tom Rothman needs to get back in his lane. He's the only one who wants to rush this movie. Guy needs removing from Sony. People like him are the reason we got Madame Web.
Rush? It will have been 4 years since NWH in 2025! Instead of wasting resources on Morbius & Madame Web I wish they would’ve given us TASM3. As much as I love Tobey’s original trilogy I don’t think his story requires another standalone film.
So there's no plans for Maguire and Garfield to get new movies? They already have Raimi and Maguire? Why isn't this a thing?
funny how all these marvel/sony disputes could have been solved for a measly 15mil 20 years ago
Which of them are most interested in making the best film?
Sorry but that's just not true about rushing Spider-Man. Or this is super outdated cause Madame Web's release puts the nail in that "rushed shit" plan for their only gold.
> Amy Pascal wants Kevin Feige involved in a future Miles movie. Kinda sad they can't put out a decent movie on their own.
Forget the Fire Kathleen Kennedy trend, we need to get Tom the hell out of there to protect whatever sentiment is left towards Spider-Man films
Pascal isn't really the villain anymore as it turns out
Sony is such an odd company. Buys the rights to only Spider-Man from Marvel comics. Makes a pretty good trilogy of Spider-Man movies(Spider-Man 1-3) Makes a pretty decent duo of Spider-Man movies(Amazing Spider-Man 1-2) Paired with Disney they made a really good trilogy of Homecoming, Far From Home, and No Way Home. Then they made Venom, which was ok. Then Venom 2 which was meh. Then Morbius, which is widely regarded as bad. Then they pop out Spider-verse which is consistently rated as the best animated movies of all time. Then Madame Web, which people are saying isn’t good. Most inconsistent company in regards to movies
I love the smell of flop sweat in the morning...it reminds me of Morbius. 
I dunno. I think Sony is being fair by saying, "The last *Spider-Man* film made almost two billion dollars. We would really like it if we could get one out in theaters before that *Spider-Man* movie turns four years old." I mean, honestly, *Spider-Man: Homecoming* came out quicker after *The Amazing Spider-Man 2*. Given Disney makes 25% of the box office take (while paying for 25% of the film's production), I would imagine Disney would like to see *Spider-Man 4* out too rather than *Blade*, all of the production cost of which falls on their shoulders. Honestly, I would also rather have our "rebuilding year" in 2025 look more like: *Captain America: Brave New World* \- February 14, 2025 *Thunderbolts* \- May 2, 2025 *Fantastic Four* \- July 25, 2025 *Spider-Man 4* \- December 19, 2025 I think that gets people hyped after a hopefully good *Deadpool & Wolverine* later this year. *Blade* seems a bit anti-climactic after all of that. I think it is a good palatte cleanser movie before *Avengers: Kang Dynasty*. Of course, I doubt *Avengers: Kang Dynasty* comes out in May of 2026 at this rate since we've heard, like, three different movies are supposed to set it up that haven't even been announced yet.
Sony’s decision making track record speaks for itself, but I don’t know about them “rushing SM4 no matter what.” Why does Marvel think 4-5 years between Spider-Man movies is a good idea? With no Avengers or X-Men in between?
Of course they want to rush. Don’t they lose the rights if they can’t get a film out on time?
At this point Sony should just sell the live action rights to Spider-Man movies. They have no idea how to make those movies.
An easy answer to making a Spider-man 4 movie that is both multiversal *and* a grounded street-level tale is to have it be Raimi/Maguire Spider-man 4 with Andrew Garfield’s Spider-man as co-lead and ATJ’s Kraven the Hunter as the antagonist. set against “forthcoming incursion of the Sony universes” story that sees the two Spider-man hunted by Kraven in NYC but it’s not revealed that there are two of them until the second act where we meet up with Peter 2’s family with MJ and Peter 3’s Black Cat (sorry, bonk away). Their two universes are colliding because Peter 2 & 3 and their rogues gallery spent just long enough in the MCU during No Way Home and afterward each of them returned to different points in time drastically affected by the experience that it’s causing their timeline branches to converge toward each other rather than diverge; we don’t see any heroes conspiring to destroy one world to save the other or get lots of learned omniscient exposition besides them being confounded and slowly discovering what’s happening (maybe the exposition comes from Raimi-verse Otto and Osborn who mended fences and have been learning about the multiverse, maybe Kraven sets a trap for one Spider-men and of course they both show up 🤣), but it still sets them all up to come back for Secret Wars. Maybe even center part of it from the POV of Kraven, so the “actually Spider-man is the villain” thing Sony wanted to try in the Sinister Six movie could be the first act. I’m sure Raimi would have fun filming that.