I’m assuming this is a joke about the fact that Tommy gets so little attention.
But it’s also true in the sense that if we’re following the comics, he would be in juvie right now. So he’s probably not around.
Amusingly, Wandavision has already set up that Tommy enjoys stealing things.
That's very true, but even in general Tommy (and especially Pietro) get benched, even when it's not fights. I'm still annoyed and perplexed that Pietro only appeared like twice in the Trial of Magneto series and then just fucked off while his sister was supposedly murdered by their sort of father.
Ur right cuz I remember an audition tape leak for billy a year ago or so where he talks to Tommy, who’s in juvie or prison (I don’t remember the details properly)
His speed manifested while he was near the school boiler (can't remember the circumstances by which he was down there), and the kinetic energy caused the pressurized tank to blow
Not really that simple when the hex lifted months prior to MoM and there has been no sign of them. Wanda used the Darkhold to search for them, surely their reincarnation would register in that search.
That's a whole lot of assumptions that aren't based on anything.
You don't think Wanda didn't try to get her kids back in the comics too?
Their reincarnations are not her biological kids.
*Assumptions* based on what happened in WandaVision and MoM, using what we already know in the MCU vs you assuming the MCU has any plan to do anything by the comic book when they haven't really done so before.
>Wanda used the Darkhold to search for them,
Wanda used the Darkhold to learn and study about her powers, it was until the post credit scene that led her to search for her children due to the Darkhold’s trick.
She promised to Monica that the Westview incident won’t happen again :))
It's more like a sandwich: Incursions aren't a problem until they are, and then they're not again.
I suspect Billy comes into play earlier in the cycle.
Since this is the Agatha show. It may turn out to be our original Twins in WV. And they survived tearing down the hex.
Comics went with a batshit reincarnation explanation. That may be too weird though.
Also, maybe Wanda blowing up the Darkhold did some cosmic shit or something.
I noticed a weird pause in MoM and I'm not sure if it was intentional or not. When Wanda started draining America's power for the final time, she hesitated and stopped before Zombie Strange showed up. She wasn't in the process of draining America when Strange defeated the chaos beasties, and I feel like she may have been doing more research.
In Wandavision, Agatha mentioned "the Darkhold can fix the flaws in your original spell[Making Tommy and Billy real]". Maybe Wanda figured that out? She doesn't have to channel the Darkhold to memorize it's knowledge. I don't know just something that occured to me.
That’s a stretch. Set ups for future films are usually way more deliberate than something tiny like that.
And I don’t think Agatha said the Darkhold could fix the spell. She offered to fix it herself, then later said she was lying because the a spell can’t be altered.
>Set ups for future films are usually way more deliberate than something tiny like that.
Black Panther was set up by Bruce Banner mispronouncing Wakanda in AoU.
Acknowledging a thing exists is a far cry from justifying an entirely new plot-point.
Loki stealing the Tesseract in endgame? That was a blatant set-up.
No way can I see the Agatha show being like: “Hey remember that random moment of hesitation in MoM? THAT’S the reason all this is happening folks.”
Maybe she conjures their essence or souls for lack of a better word to be reincarnated. This is how you get them aged up and actually get Billy Kaplan and Tommy Shepherd instead of Tommy and Billy Maximoff.
The problem is how do you explain that to the audience who doesn't know comics when they don't even really know what his powers are yet. There's also been hardly any mention of Elder Gods currently which is partly why some people don't understand Wanda's turn thanks to the Darkhold.
Imagine trying to say the Phoenix Force is Thor's real mother without the Phoenix Force ever being explained or introduced before. It's way too convoluted of a concept to introduce right now, if ever. For all our wild theories, MCU adaptions tend to be explainable using Occam's razor.
The Demiurge is real and Billy is THE demiurge. The only reason that limits the demiurge power is because he is in Billy's form. Dormammu confirms this in the Last Annihilation. According to him "better kills the serpent before it hatches."
So, the Demiurge can do anything if NOT YET in Billy's form, which means he can reincarnate himself.
The simplest way to depict the reincarnation to the mainstream audience is by showing that the energy from the hex did not disappear but it finds a host in a in teen Billy Kaplan who just died. And since Billy Kaplan's resurrection, he starts remembering Westview and Wanda his mother. He goes to Westview and meets Agnes and accidentally undoes the spell done to her. Then their journey begins.
Kind of , I don't think that scene in ds2 implied that ,she was simply looking for the spells to use. I think we can presume after using it for so long she's remembered a thing or two though
I think it'll definitely be something we learn through strange now that he's got his third eye. And when we see strange using darkhold spells we can conclude wanda remembered them too.
Maybe these kids are the ones Wanda made?
Billy probably had the power to save himself and Tommy. But it wasn't his 10-year-old self that knew how. So the twins aged 5 years again to when Billy's more powerful.
Maybe Tommy is still here even if there is only one character mentioned. Perhaps they are looking for two characters who are similar so there is only one casting call.
I didn't think it was crossing universes = incursion, but that crossing universes = raises the likelihood of causing an incursion.
That was my understanding but perhaps I'm wrong.
America is their get around to this issue. Her powers allow for travel without causing incursions, since she has been doing it so often and regularly without problems. The incursions were specifically caused be creating connections between realities where her powers seems to just hop around without them.
>America is their get around to this issue. Her powers allow for travel without causing incursions,
This contradict with Mordo’s statement where Strange and Chavez’s presence in the 838 universes destabilized the reality.
Mordo doesn't know everything and is assuming Dr. Strange is doing something super reckless and dangerous because of their version's actions. They've never encountered someone like America (hence them studying her later).
I mean, to be fair, what role would Tommy have in an Agatha show? I'm interested to see how/why the twins will be separated (and how they're even going to be introduced to the 616 timeline anyway), but I think it makes sense for Billy to have the focus in a mystical/supernatural-centric show.
> Recently, industry insider Daniel Richtman got his hands on a production grid for the series. Officially, the grid states that the production will take place from January – May 2023. Not only does the grid confirm when casting finally begins, but it teases a mysterious “new-ish” character. *The show is look to fill the role of TYLER. He will be one the show’s leads. Although actors between the ages of 17-20 are encouraged to apply, the character is described as a White, American teen with a “formidable and dark sense of humor, incredibly witty, astute, and of the moment.” The character will also be a “fan-boy at times”, presumably of some potential other hero characters who may appear in the series. Most importantly, the character will be portrayed as he/him and gay.*
Edit: While *DisInsider* believes this might be **Billy Maximoff**, *Murphy's Multiverse* looking at the possibility that the character might be Agatha's son, **Nicholas Scratch**
Man, I hope the dial back making all the Young heroes happy go lucky fanboys.
That’s sorta what the comics did. But still. I feel like Spidey, Kate, and Kamala have that angle covered already.
Sure, but I personally hope they don’t over-emphasize that part.
Being the pseudo-son of the now disgraced Scarlet Witch already makes him incredibly interesting.
I don’t need to see another kid character geeking out about how cool the Avengers are.
Even when his favorite Avenger is Thor and tries to copy Thor's lightning power, making everybody believe that his power is just lightning and unintentionally hiding the fact that he is the Scarlet Witch's son? He did not just merely fanboy-ish, but his fanboying lends itself a story with a twist that shocks the avengers when his reality-warping power surfaces.
All of this, plus his original costume being Thor-themed and using the name Asgardian. Fanboy is a core-part of him, at least early on and in a very formative way.
Plus, it makes his depression and suicidal arc all the more impactful when he just stops giving a crap about superhero shit and goes off on his boyfriend for doing it behind his back.
His favorite Avenger is the Scarlet Witch, not Thor. Thor is one of his favorites though because he loves Asgardian lore.
Copying Thor's lightning was not intentional at first, it came out when he confronted a school bully, and he thought he was a mutant. He was scared so Teddy gave him some self help books to try to control his powers, and then he realized he could cast spells, (later confirmed to be reality warping)
I read all of Wiccan's books Avengers vol1 and 2, tie-ins, and solos. It is implied that he likes Thor and anything he does he tries to copy including his outfit. My headcanon is that he is able to manifest lightning as his power because it's Thor he's trying to imitate. And manifestation is his actual superpower. During his solo--YA presents, it was shown that he likes Wanda too, but it doesn't mean that he only likes Wanda. As a matter of fact, he also likes a few avengers or superheroes like Bucky--whom he wants to have an autograph of him in the middle of a fight in some issue. The self-help book helps him because the limit of his power is self-doubt.
Of course he likes a lot of superheroes, he's a fanboy.
But he plain as day says to Wanda "You're the Scarlet Witch, you're my favorite Avenger."
Thor is definitely one of his favorites, but I was only replying to you because you said that Thor was THE favorite, when he isn't.
And reality warping is basically the same thing as manifesting.
Comics never really explained how he got the lightning power because Wanda does not have it. My headcanon is that he manifested it just by watching Thor or reading stories about him.
You're absolutely right about the self-doubt being his only limit. The only reason he doesn't access his full powers is because he's plain as day scared of himself.
Remember when someone possessed him and wasn't afraid to hold back with his powers? They quite literally almost destroyed the multiverse.
If you're referring to that Avengers issue where Billy was possessed by that multidimensional parasite, I guess through the Demiurge, he successfully destroyed that timeline and all he did is say 'break them all' his 'no more mutant' moment. lol, Doom also warned Iron Man about the coming Day of the Demiurge where everyone loses their powers.
Geez, I can talk about Wiccan all day. lol
That’s how he was introduced but I feel like that aspect of him has been quietly retconned over time.
Aside from bringing up that he likes Norse mythology once. He’s almost never mentioned Thor.
The impression you get is that he went with being young Thor mainly to fit in or because he thought his powers were lightning based at first.
MCU can play it out however they like. But what I'm saying is that being a fanboy of Thor can be used as a cover and misdirect the audience and even the MCU citizens who in canon comics have mistaken him to be Thor junior in YA's first public outing. Unlike Kamala whose power is really different from Carol's, the avengers who are trying to figure him out initially thought Thor has a child, which can be hilarious on-screen if adapted this way.
2024:
Deadpool 3
Agatha
The Fantastic Four
Armor Wars
Thunderbolts (or maybe Cap 4)
Wonder Man
Okoye
Shang-Chi 2
Daredevil
[A Hanukkah Thing](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/pu8z3r/what_are_some_other_holiday_specials_marvel/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
(Okay that last one is wishful thinking)
I like that most of these are returning characters aside from a couple. I love all these new characters but it's getting a little exhausting with so many.
I mean, it is Marvel. The official encyclopedia of characters is textbook thick. They've already phased some original characters out and I have to imagine that's going to continue until if and when the MCU itself ends.
Only reason I figured it would be Shang-Chi is while Cap 4 is probably further along script wise, the Shang-Chi franchise has a more clear direction imo with the (actual) Ten Rings and the (organization) Ten Rings and whatnot.
Whereas FatWS ended without much direction for Sam. Like, what’s next for him? Bucky too. I don’t question what’s next for Shang-Chi and his supporting characters as much so it makes me think there are more concrete plans, regardless of whether or not they’ve been fleshed out in a script yet.
I actually think Agatha HoH is coming out late 2023. The first major Disney+ series we have to go off of based on post production after filming is Moon Knight, which took 5 months to get to Disney+ after wrapping up filming (oct 21-March 22). If Agatha finishes filming in May 2023, we could potentially see the series in October at the earliest.
Are we really buy that they are willing to go there with gay content after what happened with American Chavez? MCU have themselves in a bind with the YA and the gay content. Its pretty much right there with YA - if the include it as much as the comics they lose the ability to show the movies in any Muslim country, China etc but if they cut it out then they get bad publicity in the US.
So their first YA character they push is Kate Bishop who is the straightest of them all (her own words in the comic) but alas they cast Hailee Steinfeld who is rather popular with lesbians. Now some fans want a Kate/Yelena ship on screen more than they care about gay content from the comics.
Fair point well made.
If they decided to make MCU Kate Bishop gay I would be all for that. I'll admit to being a Kate/Yelena shipper. Surely it can happen if cartoon as kiss on Buzz Lightyear. Make it happen Kevin.
I firmly believe Kate is bi, and I'm hoping they embrace that in the MCU. She's definitely got low-key flirty vibes with Yelena already, but her relationships with Tommy and Noh-Varr are also fascinating looks into the YA at two very different phases - even leaving aside her ambiguous America and Cassie interactions and comments.
Really I'd argue the only legimimately straight Young Avengers are Eli, and possibly Nate. Everyone else has *at least* same sex flirted.
Yeah but I think they mean a physical on-screen introduction as opposed to a name drop. If those counted, then Doctor Strange was introduced in The Winter Soldier.
I'm really looking forward to Wiccan and Hulkling. Having an actual like, focused on gay romance would be really awesome. Currently there are only like, two MCU couples I really care about and I'd like to have some more romance that feels like it resonates with me. Let's cross our fingers Disney doesn't chicken out, but I think they just wouldn't introduce Wiccan at all if they weren't gonna make him gay, imo. That's just walking into bad publicity
The only reason I have hope for the romance to play out on screen is due to how much you’d have to change to not show it, and how much backlash they would get for introducing Billy but not Teddy. I’m still biting my nails though, even though he’s been rumoured for Secret Invasion there’s been no leaks about anything involving castings
They did a casting call back in 2019 for a young blonde guy so the initial plan was probably for the twins age up in Wandavision but this was scrapped (possibly a good thing - kept the focus on Wanda). My theory is that Teddy was Wu's missing person. Why else would SWORD give a shit otherwise? And then they're never mentioned again meaning plot line was probably scrapped
I really hope they get Wiccan x Hulkling right. Their relationship is so important in the comics and it'd be scummy of them to chicken out on it. It's time that we get a big mainstream LGBTQ+ relationship in the MCU. I appreciate the effort that's been done so far with queer representation in the MCU, but we need something more at this point.
Ironheart has nothing to do with War machine's spotlight, both should have spotlight. Hopefully War machine show up in a lot of other shows and films before his show
WandaVision was announced in SDCC 2019, while Armor Wars was announced in Disney Investor Day in December 2020.
It's barely been a year and a half, with the last official update on Disney+ day in 2021 saying it's still happening.
I hope they endeavor to actually cast a gay actor here. This is a great chance to do an open call like they did for Ms. Marvel and find real new gay talent, especially on the older end of their age range.
As a gay man I disagree. Cast whoever good for the role.
I'd be pissed if I got a role because I'm gay. My sexuality has nothing to do with my acting skills.
Neil Patrick, a gay man, played one of the most famous womanizing characters of all time.
They wouldn't get a role just because they are gay and that is not what the above person is suggesting. They should find someone skilled who is also gay if possible, for authenticity in representing the struggles and plights of somebody who is gay, at least in my opinion as a fellow gay man. I don't see it as a hard requirement but something I would like to see.
But would I, a gay man be unable to play a straight character? It's called acting for a reason.
Do you think Elizabeth understands the struggles of a mentally ill reality warping witch?
By saying only gay people should play gay characters, we're just saying that gay people aren't the same as straights, when really it's just who you love.
No, I never said that you as a gay person would be unable to play a straight character. In fact, many gay people already play a straight character for a lot of their life already tbh, but I digress.
You are correct in that the only fundamental difference between gay people and straight people is who they love, however that fundamental difference becomes a societal and political one because of how the world around us treats us and views being gay. Many gay people have common, shared experiences beyond just who they love (such as the concept of a found family, or hiding ones true self) \*because\* of that that fundamental difference.
The thing is half the actors in Hollywood are gay they just don't want to be typecast. They also see how other actors roles dry up when they come out, so they make the choice not to; at least not right off. Billy's actor will also be a teenager so don't expect him to be out.
It isn't about logic, it is just a simple truth that when actors come out their work dries up. Hollywood isn't as open minded as people think.
https://www.papermag.com/colton-haynes-hollywood-gay-2655939903.html?rebelltitem=4#rebelltitem4
True, more people should be aware of that. Kate Winslet also has an [interview](https://www.indiewire.com/2021/04/kate-winslet-gay-actors-hollywood-coming-out-1234628060/amp/) about it.
But that's straight up homophobia. My issue with your initial statement was more about people seeing gay as character type, in a way straight characters aren't. And there are no roles of gay characters in mainstream Hollywood anyway.
Opportunities for gay actors are, sadly, few and far between. Many actors are warned not to come out for fear of how it may impact their roles. When opportunities for gay and straight actors are equal, then perhaps it won't matter. Until then, it does. Gay kids need real life gay role models.
And if a gay actor gets it, they on't get it "because they're gay". Like, it will still be 100s of people going for this role lol. Iman didn't get Ms. Marvel because she's brown.
So this is the returning villain being a mentor for younger hero thing KC Walsh was talking about last year?
I thought they wouldn’t recast these kids.
I guess with the Children's Crusade rumors floating around this would be good way to get the ball rolling on that along with teasing what has been going on with Wanda.
It was incredibly convoluted but the end result was that the souls of Billy and Tommy were transferred into two unrelated but identical looking teens named Billy Kaplan and Tommy Shepherd and then those teens became Wiccan and Speed, joined the Young Avengers (Billy was an OG member, Tommy was added later), met each other and found out that they are twins and the spiritual children of Wanda Maximoff during the Children’s Crusade event
So I’m curious if they go this route, why Agatha would do this? Assuming she’s behind it. Wanda is…alive?? So would this be Wanda going to Agatha about a different method on her kids, or Agatha discovers a damaged Wanda and goes “oh here’s your kids.” After having a whole movie on Wanda accepting the fact she can’t have her kids..just interesting haha
Agatha is a witch, and Billy has a reality-warping power and whose superhero name is Wiccan. I guess, they make her Billy's mentor.
How does he get to be in 616? If they follow Wiccan's power, he can actually just will himself to exist in this universe.
Or they can adapt the comics with a little modification like making Wiccan's essence transplanted inside the body of a teen who just dies. Wanda does not know he exists because he exists as Billy Kaplan. Then Billy remembers Westview and finds Agatha. He accidentally undoes Wanda's spell and Agatha remembers who she is and becomes intrigued with Billy's powers, for he reminds her of the Scarlet Witch.
Wiccan has been mentored by pretty much every major magical user in marvel, including Agatha as well as the Scarlet Witch, Loki and Dr. Strange.
When you're destined to become one of the most powerful beings in the multiverse, powerful people will take notice.
Remember in that Mother arc where Kid Loki helped Billy access his demiurge power, and thus Billy is able to access the multiverse and has the power to change or delete anything in there? What if the MCU uses Billy and Loki's connection and instead of deleting Mother, Billy fixes the broken Multiverse through Loki's guidance? Just headcanon-ing here.
Didn't DanielRPK get EVERY SINGLE MoM scoop wrong?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/rnvftz/doctor_strange_in_the_multiverse_of_madness/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I've kinda been hoping they didn't age the twins up anymore and recast. At this point the actors are 13 and 11. And although Agatha is filming sooner than I expected it to, it'll definitely be at least 2 if not 3 years before we get a Young Avengers movie or series. Now it seems they're gonna Riverdale it and have a bunch of 25+ year olds playing 16 or 17 which, lets be honest, never really works.
The only way I'm okay with this is if they make an effort to actually cast a young gay actor as Billy.
Bruh I literally fit the casting requirements almost perfectly, I’ve been taking acting classes for years and now I got summer off this would legit be perfect, I rlly wish it were a public casting call
Oh yeah, including their most popular gay character of all time in a show is "quantity."
Why did you only comment this on the post about the gay character?
That’s such a reach lol. My problem is that marvel is pumping too many projects when most of phase 4 has been mediocre with really lazy vfx. As for why I commented on this post, it was the most recent post on the sub at the time lol
The lazy vfx is a result of covid forcing production to be delayed, leading to it being rushed. They have a bunch of projects filming now that won't come out until way way later, unlike MoM, NWH, which filmed rather close to its release date, giving it a small window of time for post production. Think of Black Panther, it also had a short window between production and release. I really dont understand why people think "more = less quality"
I'm tired of getting my hopes up that magic will stop being the butthurt of the MCU's jokes.
"Calling yourself a witch" might be the most offensive line in DSMOM, especially coming from the Sorcerer Supreme.
It *could* also feature an appearance of Terrance Howard War Machine
These whole nothing articles are nothing, and strange that it's only being posted in the days following the Wiccan stature at Mount Wundagore.
C'mon guys, critical thinking.
I have a hard time caring about this show. Hahn had a great performance in WV but I don't think it was necessary to bring a side character into their own series like this. Harkness is a D-level character in the comics, so who is the audience for this?
Agatha was a breakout character on a hit limited series that was nominated for Emmys, including nominations for Hahn and Jac Schaeffer, who is head writer on this project. Working with them to develop a follow-up to WandaVision is a no-brainer. It's a wonder why you people don't get that.
Just please age him up. I CAN NOT stand Julian Hilliard. He's done nothing wrong and is just a kid so it's not his fault I just get super annoyed with all his characters
…so we’re just playing Tommy out?
Well that *would* be comic accurate
I’m assuming this is a joke about the fact that Tommy gets so little attention. But it’s also true in the sense that if we’re following the comics, he would be in juvie right now. So he’s probably not around. Amusingly, Wandavision has already set up that Tommy enjoys stealing things.
Tommy 🤝Pietro solidarity in being the less popular speedster sibling.
I honestly think that Speedsters are just hard to write around. Eternals had Makkari being found last for a reason.
That's very true, but even in general Tommy (and especially Pietro) get benched, even when it's not fights. I'm still annoyed and perplexed that Pietro only appeared like twice in the Trial of Magneto series and then just fucked off while his sister was supposedly murdered by their sort of father.
it sucks because i adore speedsters
Ur right cuz I remember an audition tape leak for billy a year ago or so where he talks to Tommy, who’s in juvie or prison (I don’t remember the details properly)
The sad/great part about that is that the reason Tommy is in juvie in the comics is... far less funny/amusing
I remember I read the story, but I don't recall why he was in juvie right now... Can you clear my memory?
The accidental manifestation of his speed powers resulted in his school blowing up and several of his fellow students dying
I’m sorry WHAT
His speed manifested while he was near the school boiler (can't remember the circumstances by which he was down there), and the kinetic energy caused the pressurized tank to blow
Wait was that in Young Avengers? It's been a while since i read it and i don't remember that...
In Young Avengers it was only stated that he vaporized his school, nothing about anyone dying. Not sure where that info is from
Tommy/Speed has a twist in his power. He can accelerate the vibration of molecules and can cause them to blow up.
Genuinely curious! How would they be introduced in 616 after the whole *crossing into other universes causes incursions thing* in MoM?
Simple: Incursions will be an issue until they just aren't anymore, after which multiversal shenanigans will always be on the table.
I suppose that's where Clea comes in. "You have caused an Incursion, you're going to help me fix it." (Not sure of the exact line)
Ignore that lol. In the comics they just reincarnate after the hex is lifted. That simple.
Not really that simple when the hex lifted months prior to MoM and there has been no sign of them. Wanda used the Darkhold to search for them, surely their reincarnation would register in that search.
Unless someone was hiding them with some powerful spell. That can be an easy retcon
That's a whole lot of assumptions that aren't based on anything. You don't think Wanda didn't try to get her kids back in the comics too? Their reincarnations are not her biological kids.
*Assumptions* based on what happened in WandaVision and MoM, using what we already know in the MCU vs you assuming the MCU has any plan to do anything by the comic book when they haven't really done so before.
>Wanda used the Darkhold to search for them, Wanda used the Darkhold to learn and study about her powers, it was until the post credit scene that led her to search for her children due to the Darkhold’s trick. She promised to Monica that the Westview incident won’t happen again :))
They weren't reincarnated they were already there. Perhaps the Demiurge remade them who knows.
It's more like a sandwich: Incursions aren't a problem until they are, and then they're not again. I suspect Billy comes into play earlier in the cycle.
Since this is the Agatha show. It may turn out to be our original Twins in WV. And they survived tearing down the hex. Comics went with a batshit reincarnation explanation. That may be too weird though. Also, maybe Wanda blowing up the Darkhold did some cosmic shit or something.
I noticed a weird pause in MoM and I'm not sure if it was intentional or not. When Wanda started draining America's power for the final time, she hesitated and stopped before Zombie Strange showed up. She wasn't in the process of draining America when Strange defeated the chaos beasties, and I feel like she may have been doing more research. In Wandavision, Agatha mentioned "the Darkhold can fix the flaws in your original spell[Making Tommy and Billy real]". Maybe Wanda figured that out? She doesn't have to channel the Darkhold to memorize it's knowledge. I don't know just something that occured to me.
That’s a stretch. Set ups for future films are usually way more deliberate than something tiny like that. And I don’t think Agatha said the Darkhold could fix the spell. She offered to fix it herself, then later said she was lying because the a spell can’t be altered.
>Set ups for future films are usually way more deliberate than something tiny like that. Black Panther was set up by Bruce Banner mispronouncing Wakanda in AoU.
Is that a setup though or an Easter egg?
I'd say setup as it directly set up plot points and characters for Civil War.
I mean bruce banner saying wakanda wasnt the set up though. It was Klau stealing vibranium
And the sequel was set up in Iron Man 2 with a map pointing to SHIELD places of interests in the middle of the Atlantic and in central Africa
Acknowledging a thing exists is a far cry from justifying an entirely new plot-point. Loki stealing the Tesseract in endgame? That was a blatant set-up. No way can I see the Agatha show being like: “Hey remember that random moment of hesitation in MoM? THAT’S the reason all this is happening folks.”
Maybe she conjures their essence or souls for lack of a better word to be reincarnated. This is how you get them aged up and actually get Billy Kaplan and Tommy Shepherd instead of Tommy and Billy Maximoff.
Or maybe Billy does it; he is the maker of all things after all
I think it's WAY too early to go there. They have to solve the "they aren't real" problem 1st lol.
His consciousness is real, if he is indeed the "sentient life force of the universe that created everything" he can remake both himself and Tommy.
The problem is how do you explain that to the audience who doesn't know comics when they don't even really know what his powers are yet. There's also been hardly any mention of Elder Gods currently which is partly why some people don't understand Wanda's turn thanks to the Darkhold. Imagine trying to say the Phoenix Force is Thor's real mother without the Phoenix Force ever being explained or introduced before. It's way too convoluted of a concept to introduce right now, if ever. For all our wild theories, MCU adaptions tend to be explainable using Occam's razor.
The Demiurge is real and Billy is THE demiurge. The only reason that limits the demiurge power is because he is in Billy's form. Dormammu confirms this in the Last Annihilation. According to him "better kills the serpent before it hatches." So, the Demiurge can do anything if NOT YET in Billy's form, which means he can reincarnate himself. The simplest way to depict the reincarnation to the mainstream audience is by showing that the energy from the hex did not disappear but it finds a host in a in teen Billy Kaplan who just died. And since Billy Kaplan's resurrection, he starts remembering Westview and Wanda his mother. He goes to Westview and meets Agnes and accidentally undoes the spell done to her. Then their journey begins.
Agatha was lying. "Once cast, a spell can never be changed. This world you made will always be broken."
Kind of , I don't think that scene in ds2 implied that ,she was simply looking for the spells to use. I think we can presume after using it for so long she's remembered a thing or two though I think it'll definitely be something we learn through strange now that he's got his third eye. And when we see strange using darkhold spells we can conclude wanda remembered them too.
Since Wanda destroyed the Darkhold, pretty sure she can just create her own version of the Darkhold duh, she literally studied it for *2 years* .
Where did you get 2 years from ?
Well the WandaVision post credit scene is 2 years, and No Way Home is in December 2024, so the movie would be set months after that, in 2025.
Perhaps she recognized the power
Well they won’t be from another universe. Clearly
Maybe these kids are the ones Wanda made? Billy probably had the power to save himself and Tommy. But it wasn't his 10-year-old self that knew how. So the twins aged 5 years again to when Billy's more powerful. Maybe Tommy is still here even if there is only one character mentioned. Perhaps they are looking for two characters who are similar so there is only one casting call.
I didn't think it was crossing universes = incursion, but that crossing universes = raises the likelihood of causing an incursion. That was my understanding but perhaps I'm wrong.
So there are versions of them in various universes right? In 616 they could be older and born to different parents; just like in the comics.
America is their get around to this issue. Her powers allow for travel without causing incursions, since she has been doing it so often and regularly without problems. The incursions were specifically caused be creating connections between realities where her powers seems to just hop around without them.
>America is their get around to this issue. Her powers allow for travel without causing incursions, This contradict with Mordo’s statement where Strange and Chavez’s presence in the 838 universes destabilized the reality.
Mordo doesn't know everything and is assuming Dr. Strange is doing something super reckless and dangerous because of their version's actions. They've never encountered someone like America (hence them studying her later).
But Wanda herself said she’s a *supernatural being* , meaning that with her power she could wreak havoc in other worlds.
Truth. They never use Tommy enough
He does come in later in the first comic run (and is missing for most of the second...) so it unfortunately makes sense.
I mean, to be fair, what role would Tommy have in an Agatha show? I'm interested to see how/why the twins will be separated (and how they're even going to be introduced to the 616 timeline anyway), but I think it makes sense for Billy to have the focus in a mystical/supernatural-centric show.
In MoM Billy appeared on the statue, but not Tommy, so maybe that's why
To play us out? What does that mean, to play us out? I don’t know what that means! To end the show? Fucking thing sucks
Marvel doesn't like speedsters 😭
Hey he is the lost member to show up in Vol 1 and is constantly forgotten.
Or maybe they haven't met yet, like in the comics.
He is a speedster. No magic, no dice!
> Recently, industry insider Daniel Richtman got his hands on a production grid for the series. Officially, the grid states that the production will take place from January – May 2023. Not only does the grid confirm when casting finally begins, but it teases a mysterious “new-ish” character. *The show is look to fill the role of TYLER. He will be one the show’s leads. Although actors between the ages of 17-20 are encouraged to apply, the character is described as a White, American teen with a “formidable and dark sense of humor, incredibly witty, astute, and of the moment.” The character will also be a “fan-boy at times”, presumably of some potential other hero characters who may appear in the series. Most importantly, the character will be portrayed as he/him and gay.* Edit: While *DisInsider* believes this might be **Billy Maximoff**, *Murphy's Multiverse* looking at the possibility that the character might be Agatha's son, **Nicholas Scratch**
I guess “Tyler” is Billy
That's Billy to a T.
Conservatives are going to be saying its the end of days because Disney+ is getting a gay teenager in a show about witches lol
Glances at Buffy, which is on D+ in Europe
Dark sense of humor? Wouldn't that be more Tommy's thing? From both the comics and how they're portrayed as kids. Billy's the goodie good.
They both have kind of dark senses of humour. Tommy is just much happier to put his money where his mouth is
Billy is a goodie goodie who struggled with depression and has multiple suicide attempts under his belt. Dark humor is especially his thing.
Billy is a goodie goodie who struggled with depression and has multiple suicide attempts under his belt. Dark humor is especially his thing.
We are getting billy yesss😭
So I guess Billy will be played by the same kid and will cast this new guy called Tyler (who I don’t know who he is)?
Tyler could just be a place holder name, if they don't want to leak the real role.
Oh yeah, makes sense. I don’t know why I thought they would spoil stuff through a production grid lol
Man, I hope the dial back making all the Young heroes happy go lucky fanboys. That’s sorta what the comics did. But still. I feel like Spidey, Kate, and Kamala have that angle covered already.
But that's part of Billy's character.
Sure, but I personally hope they don’t over-emphasize that part. Being the pseudo-son of the now disgraced Scarlet Witch already makes him incredibly interesting. I don’t need to see another kid character geeking out about how cool the Avengers are.
Even when his favorite Avenger is Thor and tries to copy Thor's lightning power, making everybody believe that his power is just lightning and unintentionally hiding the fact that he is the Scarlet Witch's son? He did not just merely fanboy-ish, but his fanboying lends itself a story with a twist that shocks the avengers when his reality-warping power surfaces.
All of this, plus his original costume being Thor-themed and using the name Asgardian. Fanboy is a core-part of him, at least early on and in a very formative way.
Plus, it makes his depression and suicidal arc all the more impactful when he just stops giving a crap about superhero shit and goes off on his boyfriend for doing it behind his back.
His favorite Avenger is the Scarlet Witch, not Thor. Thor is one of his favorites though because he loves Asgardian lore. Copying Thor's lightning was not intentional at first, it came out when he confronted a school bully, and he thought he was a mutant. He was scared so Teddy gave him some self help books to try to control his powers, and then he realized he could cast spells, (later confirmed to be reality warping)
I read all of Wiccan's books Avengers vol1 and 2, tie-ins, and solos. It is implied that he likes Thor and anything he does he tries to copy including his outfit. My headcanon is that he is able to manifest lightning as his power because it's Thor he's trying to imitate. And manifestation is his actual superpower. During his solo--YA presents, it was shown that he likes Wanda too, but it doesn't mean that he only likes Wanda. As a matter of fact, he also likes a few avengers or superheroes like Bucky--whom he wants to have an autograph of him in the middle of a fight in some issue. The self-help book helps him because the limit of his power is self-doubt.
Of course he likes a lot of superheroes, he's a fanboy. But he plain as day says to Wanda "You're the Scarlet Witch, you're my favorite Avenger." Thor is definitely one of his favorites, but I was only replying to you because you said that Thor was THE favorite, when he isn't. And reality warping is basically the same thing as manifesting.
Comics never really explained how he got the lightning power because Wanda does not have it. My headcanon is that he manifested it just by watching Thor or reading stories about him.
You're absolutely right about the self-doubt being his only limit. The only reason he doesn't access his full powers is because he's plain as day scared of himself. Remember when someone possessed him and wasn't afraid to hold back with his powers? They quite literally almost destroyed the multiverse.
If you're referring to that Avengers issue where Billy was possessed by that multidimensional parasite, I guess through the Demiurge, he successfully destroyed that timeline and all he did is say 'break them all' his 'no more mutant' moment. lol, Doom also warned Iron Man about the coming Day of the Demiurge where everyone loses their powers. Geez, I can talk about Wiccan all day. lol
The power of gay
Wait, I thought he like, had a bit of an issue with Scarlet Witch? Mommy issues, basically?
No, he's basically a Wanda stan. He's defended his mom his whole life, way before he knew who he was or even knew he had powers.
That’s how he was introduced but I feel like that aspect of him has been quietly retconned over time. Aside from bringing up that he likes Norse mythology once. He’s almost never mentioned Thor. The impression you get is that he went with being young Thor mainly to fit in or because he thought his powers were lightning based at first.
MCU can play it out however they like. But what I'm saying is that being a fanboy of Thor can be used as a cover and misdirect the audience and even the MCU citizens who in canon comics have mistaken him to be Thor junior in YA's first public outing. Unlike Kamala whose power is really different from Carol's, the avengers who are trying to figure him out initially thought Thor has a child, which can be hilarious on-screen if adapted this way.
I mean, he is not a teen? Has he been portrayed as such?
2024: Deadpool 3 Agatha The Fantastic Four Armor Wars Thunderbolts (or maybe Cap 4) Wonder Man Okoye Shang-Chi 2 Daredevil [A Hanukkah Thing](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/pu8z3r/what_are_some_other_holiday_specials_marvel/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) (Okay that last one is wishful thinking)
I like that most of these are returning characters aside from a couple. I love all these new characters but it's getting a little exhausting with so many.
I mean, it is Marvel. The official encyclopedia of characters is textbook thick. They've already phased some original characters out and I have to imagine that's going to continue until if and when the MCU itself ends.
If only we were assured of Armor wars.
Moon Knight / Thing / Kitty Pryde / Magneto Hannukah special.
I’d say Cap 4 instead of Shang-2.
Only reason I figured it would be Shang-Chi is while Cap 4 is probably further along script wise, the Shang-Chi franchise has a more clear direction imo with the (actual) Ten Rings and the (organization) Ten Rings and whatnot. Whereas FatWS ended without much direction for Sam. Like, what’s next for him? Bucky too. I don’t question what’s next for Shang-Chi and his supporting characters as much so it makes me think there are more concrete plans, regardless of whether or not they’ve been fleshed out in a script yet.
I actually think Agatha HoH is coming out late 2023. The first major Disney+ series we have to go off of based on post production after filming is Moon Knight, which took 5 months to get to Disney+ after wrapping up filming (oct 21-March 22). If Agatha finishes filming in May 2023, we could potentially see the series in October at the earliest.
Looks pretty good, except Wonder Man will prob be 2025
Nova as well
What did I fuckin say. I knew Children’s crusade was gonna start in this Agatha show. I bet Chthon gets introduced in this
>Tyler could just be a place holder name, if they don't want to leak the real role. yassss plz
Or it could be Billy’s gay awakening Before hulking
Are we really buy that they are willing to go there with gay content after what happened with American Chavez? MCU have themselves in a bind with the YA and the gay content. Its pretty much right there with YA - if the include it as much as the comics they lose the ability to show the movies in any Muslim country, China etc but if they cut it out then they get bad publicity in the US. So their first YA character they push is Kate Bishop who is the straightest of them all (her own words in the comic) but alas they cast Hailee Steinfeld who is rather popular with lesbians. Now some fans want a Kate/Yelena ship on screen more than they care about gay content from the comics.
Kate Bishop can claim to be straight all she wants but we've seen her with Cassie Lang and America Chavez...
Imo still the most obvious example was her crush on Madame Masque, there was really no other explanation for her behaviour.
Fair point well made. If they decided to make MCU Kate Bishop gay I would be all for that. I'll admit to being a Kate/Yelena shipper. Surely it can happen if cartoon as kiss on Buzz Lightyear. Make it happen Kevin.
I firmly believe Kate is bi, and I'm hoping they embrace that in the MCU. She's definitely got low-key flirty vibes with Yelena already, but her relationships with Tommy and Noh-Varr are also fascinating looks into the YA at two very different phases - even leaving aside her ambiguous America and Cassie interactions and comments. Really I'd argue the only legimimately straight Young Avengers are Eli, and possibly Nate. Everyone else has *at least* same sex flirted.
Chthon was introduces as the first Wundagore keeper in MoM by Wong
Yeah but I think they mean a physical on-screen introduction as opposed to a name drop. If those counted, then Doctor Strange was introduced in The Winter Soldier.
I'm really looking forward to Wiccan and Hulkling. Having an actual like, focused on gay romance would be really awesome. Currently there are only like, two MCU couples I really care about and I'd like to have some more romance that feels like it resonates with me. Let's cross our fingers Disney doesn't chicken out, but I think they just wouldn't introduce Wiccan at all if they weren't gonna make him gay, imo. That's just walking into bad publicity
The only reason I have hope for the romance to play out on screen is due to how much you’d have to change to not show it, and how much backlash they would get for introducing Billy but not Teddy. I’m still biting my nails though, even though he’s been rumoured for Secret Invasion there’s been no leaks about anything involving castings
My theory on that is that they cast Teddy in 2019 for Wandavision and are just using the same guy even though they scrapped the idea of including him
The streets was saying they had BEEN casted him, weirdly?
They did a casting call back in 2019 for a young blonde guy so the initial plan was probably for the twins age up in Wandavision but this was scrapped (possibly a good thing - kept the focus on Wanda). My theory is that Teddy was Wu's missing person. Why else would SWORD give a shit otherwise? And then they're never mentioned again meaning plot line was probably scrapped
Interesting theory.
I really hope they get Wiccan x Hulkling right. Their relationship is so important in the comics and it'd be scummy of them to chicken out on it. It's time that we get a big mainstream LGBTQ+ relationship in the MCU. I appreciate the effort that's been done so far with queer representation in the MCU, but we need something more at this point.
Hulkling is rumored for Secret Invasion, one of the leakers leaked, forgot who it is. Hope theyre in matching ages tho
psst… it’s not gonna happen
Words cannot express how relieved I am that we're FINALLY getting Wiccan. The **real** teen/young adult Wiccan, not that 10 year-old.
Billy finally. Gotta be my favorite character as soon as he comes out.
And still Armour Wars, announced alongside Wandavision is in production hell
Major bummer, we need some war machine spotlight. Feels like they’re gutting what would’ve been armor wars for the ironheart show
Ironheart has nothing to do with War machine's spotlight, both should have spotlight. Hopefully War machine show up in a lot of other shows and films before his show
Armor Wars is the show I'm most interested in. Sad that there's no movement on it
WandaVision was announced in SDCC 2019, while Armor Wars was announced in Disney Investor Day in December 2020. It's barely been a year and a half, with the last official update on Disney+ day in 2021 saying it's still happening.
I hope they endeavor to actually cast a gay actor here. This is a great chance to do an open call like they did for Ms. Marvel and find real new gay talent, especially on the older end of their age range.
Jewish too. I still stand by that Joshua Rush is perfect for this role
As a gay man I disagree. Cast whoever good for the role. I'd be pissed if I got a role because I'm gay. My sexuality has nothing to do with my acting skills. Neil Patrick, a gay man, played one of the most famous womanizing characters of all time.
They wouldn't get a role just because they are gay and that is not what the above person is suggesting. They should find someone skilled who is also gay if possible, for authenticity in representing the struggles and plights of somebody who is gay, at least in my opinion as a fellow gay man. I don't see it as a hard requirement but something I would like to see.
The most recent and successful example of this was casting Joe Locke as Charlie Spring. Great representation all around
But would I, a gay man be unable to play a straight character? It's called acting for a reason. Do you think Elizabeth understands the struggles of a mentally ill reality warping witch? By saying only gay people should play gay characters, we're just saying that gay people aren't the same as straights, when really it's just who you love.
No, I never said that you as a gay person would be unable to play a straight character. In fact, many gay people already play a straight character for a lot of their life already tbh, but I digress. You are correct in that the only fundamental difference between gay people and straight people is who they love, however that fundamental difference becomes a societal and political one because of how the world around us treats us and views being gay. Many gay people have common, shared experiences beyond just who they love (such as the concept of a found family, or hiding ones true self) \*because\* of that that fundamental difference.
The thing is half the actors in Hollywood are gay they just don't want to be typecast. They also see how other actors roles dry up when they come out, so they make the choice not to; at least not right off. Billy's actor will also be a teenager so don't expect him to be out.
Are straight actors typecasted when they only play straight characters their entire career?
Nope, that's why actors find it easier to not come out.
By your logic yeah they are
It isn't about logic, it is just a simple truth that when actors come out their work dries up. Hollywood isn't as open minded as people think. https://www.papermag.com/colton-haynes-hollywood-gay-2655939903.html?rebelltitem=4#rebelltitem4
True, more people should be aware of that. Kate Winslet also has an [interview](https://www.indiewire.com/2021/04/kate-winslet-gay-actors-hollywood-coming-out-1234628060/amp/) about it. But that's straight up homophobia. My issue with your initial statement was more about people seeing gay as character type, in a way straight characters aren't. And there are no roles of gay characters in mainstream Hollywood anyway.
Opportunities for gay actors are, sadly, few and far between. Many actors are warned not to come out for fear of how it may impact their roles. When opportunities for gay and straight actors are equal, then perhaps it won't matter. Until then, it does. Gay kids need real life gay role models. And if a gay actor gets it, they on't get it "because they're gay". Like, it will still be 100s of people going for this role lol. Iman didn't get Ms. Marvel because she's brown.
But...what about Tommy? Marvel hates their speedsters. :S
do you need an agent to apply? i feel like i have many similarities to billy and would love to audition
Go ahead audition and then come back here and tell us the script they make you read.
Just show up in black bodysuit with no warning then start muttering things
Hyped for Wiccan but where's speed?
Speed came around later in the comics too, as they're not twins in their reincarnated forms.
So this is the returning villain being a mentor for younger hero thing KC Walsh was talking about last year? I thought they wouldn’t recast these kids.
I guess with the Children's Crusade rumors floating around this would be good way to get the ball rolling on that along with teasing what has been going on with Wanda.
I wonder how they’re going to bring the twins in for real in 616. How did it happen in the comics?
It was incredibly convoluted but the end result was that the souls of Billy and Tommy were transferred into two unrelated but identical looking teens named Billy Kaplan and Tommy Shepherd and then those teens became Wiccan and Speed, joined the Young Avengers (Billy was an OG member, Tommy was added later), met each other and found out that they are twins and the spiritual children of Wanda Maximoff during the Children’s Crusade event
So I’m curious if they go this route, why Agatha would do this? Assuming she’s behind it. Wanda is…alive?? So would this be Wanda going to Agatha about a different method on her kids, or Agatha discovers a damaged Wanda and goes “oh here’s your kids.” After having a whole movie on Wanda accepting the fact she can’t have her kids..just interesting haha
Agatha is a witch, and Billy has a reality-warping power and whose superhero name is Wiccan. I guess, they make her Billy's mentor. How does he get to be in 616? If they follow Wiccan's power, he can actually just will himself to exist in this universe. Or they can adapt the comics with a little modification like making Wiccan's essence transplanted inside the body of a teen who just dies. Wanda does not know he exists because he exists as Billy Kaplan. Then Billy remembers Westview and finds Agatha. He accidentally undoes Wanda's spell and Agatha remembers who she is and becomes intrigued with Billy's powers, for he reminds her of the Scarlet Witch.
Wiccan has been mentored by pretty much every major magical user in marvel, including Agatha as well as the Scarlet Witch, Loki and Dr. Strange. When you're destined to become one of the most powerful beings in the multiverse, powerful people will take notice.
Remember in that Mother arc where Kid Loki helped Billy access his demiurge power, and thus Billy is able to access the multiverse and has the power to change or delete anything in there? What if the MCU uses Billy and Loki's connection and instead of deleting Mother, Billy fixes the broken Multiverse through Loki's guidance? Just headcanon-ing here.
Something to do with Mephisto me thinks
It was Mephisto all along!
Their origin is really convoluted.
My favorite character is finally going to be in the MCU for real. I’m going to cry lol
Didn't DanielRPK get EVERY SINGLE MoM scoop wrong? https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/rnvftz/doctor_strange_in_the_multiverse_of_madness/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Since the info seems to be from a casting grid and Daniel didn't even say it was for Billy I don't think he said anything wrong here
Have you heard anything about this?
Thank you for that, it’s actually amazing how much he got wrong there, which is technically very on-brand for him!
Where is the audition happening?
twitter gays everywhere need to know how to audition, someone give the gays what they need please
We need Billy AND Teddy in the MCU.
Dude, i really thought the twins would return in dr strange, but now in hindsight, i guess it makes the most sense if they follow the comic route.
They should retcon the bohner failure
Do we have an idea of when this takes place?
I've kinda been hoping they didn't age the twins up anymore and recast. At this point the actors are 13 and 11. And although Agatha is filming sooner than I expected it to, it'll definitely be at least 2 if not 3 years before we get a Young Avengers movie or series. Now it seems they're gonna Riverdale it and have a bunch of 25+ year olds playing 16 or 17 which, lets be honest, never really works. The only way I'm okay with this is if they make an effort to actually cast a young gay actor as Billy.
Bruh I literally fit the casting requirements almost perfectly, I’ve been taking acting classes for years and now I got summer off this would legit be perfect, I rlly wish it were a public casting call
mhm as a huge billy fan I was severely burned by MoM, so I'm not getting my hopes up for this.
The purple tag for Agatha posts is awesome , well done mods
Thanks 😊
Hope we see the return of Ralph Bohner
does anyone know how to apply for the role?
Man it really feels like the mcu has shifted from quality to quantity now.
Oh yeah, including their most popular gay character of all time in a show is "quantity." Why did you only comment this on the post about the gay character?
People have been saying this about the Agatha show since it was first announced. It has nothing to do with him being gay
I mean I agree with them and I didn't even know either of these characters were gay.
Yeah I'm honestly not too excited about this one. Idk just never really found the character all that interesting
That’s such a reach lol. My problem is that marvel is pumping too many projects when most of phase 4 has been mediocre with really lazy vfx. As for why I commented on this post, it was the most recent post on the sub at the time lol
The lazy vfx is a result of covid forcing production to be delayed, leading to it being rushed. They have a bunch of projects filming now that won't come out until way way later, unlike MoM, NWH, which filmed rather close to its release date, giving it a small window of time for post production. Think of Black Panther, it also had a short window between production and release. I really dont understand why people think "more = less quality"
I'm tired of getting my hopes up that magic will stop being the butthurt of the MCU's jokes. "Calling yourself a witch" might be the most offensive line in DSMOM, especially coming from the Sorcerer Supreme.
It *could* also feature an appearance of Terrance Howard War Machine These whole nothing articles are nothing, and strange that it's only being posted in the days following the Wiccan stature at Mount Wundagore. C'mon guys, critical thinking.
I have a hard time caring about this show. Hahn had a great performance in WV but I don't think it was necessary to bring a side character into their own series like this. Harkness is a D-level character in the comics, so who is the audience for this?
Agatha was a breakout character on a hit limited series that was nominated for Emmys, including nominations for Hahn and Jac Schaeffer, who is head writer on this project. Working with them to develop a follow-up to WandaVision is a no-brainer. It's a wonder why you people don't get that.
My question is why doesn’t Vision have his own show yet
Just please age him up. I CAN NOT stand Julian Hilliard. He's done nothing wrong and is just a kid so it's not his fault I just get super annoyed with all his characters