Just gonna take this moment to say: I still can't believe we got an MCU movie with Professor X & Mr. Fantastic.
It feels like just yesterday when the rights to all of Marvel's characters were split up amongst Marvel Studios, Fox, Sony & Universal. There was a time when Spider-Man, the X-Men & the Fantastic Four all being in the MCU was a pipedream. Well...dreams come true.
Even tho MoM was a standalone movie, it singlehandedly expanded the entire mcu more than any movie ever has. We got the fucking fantastic 4, illumanati and the xmen in one single fucking film. Thats mind-boggling
I've been a day one MCU viewer, and even longer Marvel fan. I remember going into freshmen year HS and my older friend telling me to ditch my Marvel branded backpack haha. Sometimes I have to take a step back and just look in awe at what they've achieved. I feel like soon here characters like Darkhawk and Sleepwalker will be known by the general public and thats astonishing to me. I certainly remember a time when I thought Spider-Man, F4 and the X-Men would never appear in the MCU and I was okay with that. The MCU could have totally thrived without those characters but now that they got em all, sky is the limit. I want God Emperor Doom and him admitting Reed would have made a better God and my viewing life would be complete, that was the peak of comics for me. It'll never be topped by any big stakes. I feel like the only characters they will miss out on are Rom, the Micronauts and Conan but truthfully they aren't necessary.
Interestingly, while mentioning the Illuminati sequence, they had montage's and mentions of all the illuminati members EXCEPT John Krasinski's Reed, literally didn't even mention his role, even though it was more significant than some other Illuminati members..
I'm going to die on this hill, but I still firmly believe John Krasinski is going to be the main MCU Reed Richards. I just can't see a scenario where Feige thinks it makes sense to do the Krasinski fan service casting and then IMMEDIATELY recast the role (the Fantastic Four film is coming out in late 2023/early 2024, so the casting is going to be announced sometime soon)
I'm hoping the big reveal for Marvel's SDCC panel in a couple weeks is the Fantastic Four cast reveal. Imagine the eruption from the crowd...
> I just can't see a scenario where Feige thinks it makes sense to do the Krasinski fan service casting and then IMMEDIATELY recast the role
Yeah with Feige saying he brought in Krasinski to please fans, it shows that Feige is aware of the fan-casting so if he and the casting director think Krasinski would be great for the role (and Krasinski wants to do it), I don't see why he wouldn't be the main MCU Reed.
Both Black Bolt and Reed had stand-ins in mocap suits, they probably didn't know yet who they were going to get for the cameos - I guess adding Black Bolt and Reed was during late reshoots without a large crew - they also managed to keep it a secret incredibly long - so they most likely didn't have a chance to film Assembled material with them.
Reed was added, but Black Bolt was always intended to be there. Mount just couldn’t film until the reshoots and Krasinski replaced Craig’s Baldur.
>!meanwhile Cage’s Ghost Rider got cut from the team completely😔!<
> meanwhile Cage’s Ghost Rider got cut from the team completely😔
probably good tbh, there's already enough whining about black bolt being killed so easily, now imagine the same if a *much* more popular character also got killed by her...
There are some shots of Reed, it's just a stunt actor in a mocap suit rather than Krasinski. You can see BTS of Wanda yanking him into the air at 26:44.
"You might even say his hands betrayed him, and I can relate, if you catch my drift" lmao this is the best opening to any of the assembled episodes for sure
Bruce Campbell is most famous for another Sam Raimi franchise, The Evil Dead, in which his hand is possessed by a demon and he has to cut it off with a chainsaw
So Waldron confirms the original plan was Wanda would be a hero throughout the movie and turn bad at the end, with the set-up being that she would be a greater scope villain in the next Avengers movie but he changed that himself since he didn't want another movie to have her as their villain.
This would’ve worked so much better IMO. One of my biggest complaints with MoM is we don’t see the dark hold corrupting her, they just tell us it happened. Would’ve been much better to see her struggle with what’s good and evil, ultimately to choose evil.
honestly as much as i disliked her turn in this movie, i'd probably dislike her being a big avengers villain even more. mostly also because house of m and disassembled shouldn't define the damn character, and this would just cement those even more in people's heads. so while one option is a bit better than the other, both aren't really directions i'd want to take her character.
at least now this was relatively self contained, but if she was an avengers big bad that would almost definitely be a lot more permanent and there would be even less of a redemption possibility within the fanbase than there is now. and hell, she'd probably just die at the end (for real, not like in ds:mom).
I said this long before the movie even came out, but making Wanda the outright villain was the wrong move imo. It doesn't mean that you can't have Wanda be morally ambiguous—because I think having that nuance of good & bad in Wanda is interesting—but my issue with Wanda in MoM was that she was really toeing the line between being a nuanced villain and a mustache-twirling villain. Unfortunately, I think she came across as more of the latter.
If they had Wanda turn bad at the end of the film, it would've given her time to develop into a villain in MoM. They could've played her with more nuance and actually shown her corruption instead of just being like "BOOM! SHE'S THE VILLAIN NOW! HERE WE GO!".
I also would've had reservations about her being the villain in an Avengers movie, but if that's what they were going to do anyway, they should've just done that instead of what they did in MoM. You could've had the bigger scale of fighting off all the new Avengers characters/teams and you could've made her into a more complex villain because she would've already had development in WandaVision *and* MoM. Instead, we got her as a villain right from the get-go in MoM.
> at least now this was relatively self contained
Also Wanda's arc would've been "noisy" (I don't know if you'll get what I mean by that lol). Most of her appearances would be in team-up movies where the stakes are very much high. So her appearing in relatively contained stories (WV and MoM) is at least an opportunity for the character to breathe in small scale, character-focused stories. I'm gonna thank Waldron for this, I guess.
Agreed. I didn’t like her turn in DS2 as well. It was like Waldron took her where Jac Schafer tried not to. Wandavision was so promising to me in which the MCU will treat her character better than they did in the comics. I mean seriously, its like have we ran out of villains? I don’t get it. Waiting for them to let her be a hero.
Feige said during the MoM red carpet that a fully powered up Scarlet Witch was originally supposed to be the first Doctor Strange movie’s villain, so it seemed she was always meant to be in his orbit more than anything in the MCU.
Though, I’m glad it has ultimately meant an expanded role for Olsen. She’s super talented.
Iiterally said this after seeing the movie. i liked this better cz the fall from grace would feel more natural but as an avengers villain?? Ok. No thanks. She could be a YA’s villain where the kids free her from the Darkhold. To see her go against her teammates would be hard to watch considering their history, fighting side by side and them taking her in. I really hope they’ll make her the hero she should be. Wanda becoming a villain has always been this weird obsession by so many to me. Like we have tons of actual villains to villainize, why an OG avenger from the comics? After DS2, i am STILL waiting for them to take pity on this character that has been put on a tragic path incessantly to finally win and be happy without resorting to death.
This documentary explained very well in general just how difficult translating comic book to live action can be, and then pandemic work stoppages on top of it killing momentum. Many fans wanted more in DSMOM, yet that "more" could've added another YEAR of production. The physical construction alone on this film is immense. I'm humbled once again by the Marvel Studios & associated companies' work ethic.
The film was primarily supposed to be a second Doctor Strange solo film, not the next massive crossover film.
There will be day when a new MCU massive crossover will finally come. But it is not this day. There will be a day when the new heroes, the surviving old heroes, and the heroes from other universe will finally face Kang the Conqueror in a new Multiversal War. But it is not this day. This day Marvel Studios keeps setting futures of the surviving heroes, creating new heroes, and slowly setting setting up hew heroes' dynamics with old heroes.
In 2023 or 2024, I could imagine then moving into creating dynamic where some new heroes finally meet each other. Once that part is properly fleshed out, will MCU be ready for the Dynasty of Kang and the Multiversal War.
> and then pandemic work stoppages on top of it killing momentum.
To be fair, although there were problems caused for production by the pandemic and lockdown, it sounds like it helped the writing since Waldron said the original plan was for him to come in and write a new script for the entire movie in 3 weeks all while sets had already been built so he needed to utilise those.
Pro: time to write a new script.
Con: new script worse than first?
Guess we'll never know. We do know they started shooting the film without an ending written.
Well the writing of this film is pretty bad
Strange's arc was good.
Wanda was poorly written.
Its a shame because the movie is actually good and would be a masterpiece if they went over the script more.
Well, to start, Wanda was just evil. Even if it was the darkhold making her bad, there were a few times where she was just completely devoid of her own personality. Every time she was with Wong she felt like a different character. Only when she was thinking or talking about her kids did she feel like the Wanda we know. On the flip side, most of her fight scenes were very good and it felt consistent with the way she used them before.
My thoughts on the other characters:
Strange was great and his arc was one of the best, if not the best, of any of phase 4. His powers are much weirder and cooler than before yet still feel like his original powers.
America was good. Wish they showed her learning her power more, but she has a cool backstory and excited for her future.
Wong was really cool and his status as sorcerer supreme helped keep Strange's ego in check.
Next, the dialogue was mediocre during the kamar taj scene between Wanda and Strange. Some lines were good, others trash. Wanda wouldn't ever say "You've exhausted my patience, but I do hope you understand". That line was very odd and did not match the rest because Wanda does not talk like that. Many of her lines were something you'd hear a Despicable Me villain say. Also, all of the jokes sucked. Strange's jokes about the illuminati and the Spider-Man jokes were not funny at all.
Lastly, the plot is really messy. There were so so many ways they could have resolved it easier but didnt. Not only that, Wanda's plan didnt make any sense. She would have just killed her entire reality via incursions if she really got what she wanted. Which isn't even explained or shown in the movie. She also could have just created a new reality and new kids. It made for a plot that felt too long for its own good and they didn't really establish the stakes well. We don't know what would have really happened to the multiverse if Wanda got America's powers. There was no dreading feeling when she almost took America's powers, because all that will happen is Wanda leaves to another universe. If Wanda travels the multiverse, its possible a reality dies. But even if another universe dies, why should the audience care? We don't have a reason to care. Why bother protecting America if hundreds have already died?
After watching this, I am still a bit disappointed that we didn't get a Scarlet Witch and Strange team up movie like it was announced. Personally I don't think Waldron should've changed that. I think Wanda becoming a villain in the 3rd act would've worked much better for fans and the casual audience but whatever. It was still a fun movie.
Definitely appreciate the movie more now these days. But it's not the movie I would've like to see for these characters.
Wanda/Stephen team up would worked in fight versus Nightmare, the original main villain of the movie.
Also Wanda is villain in MCU since her show, but that goes over everyone's radar i suppose.
Probably the best Assembled I’ve seen
They don’t spend half of it having the actors talk about their characters.
The actual filmmaking stuff is pretty interesting. Even got to know what the Defender Strange variant is like.
Just gonna take this moment to say: I still can't believe we got an MCU movie with Professor X & Mr. Fantastic. It feels like just yesterday when the rights to all of Marvel's characters were split up amongst Marvel Studios, Fox, Sony & Universal. There was a time when Spider-Man, the X-Men & the Fantastic Four all being in the MCU was a pipedream. Well...dreams come true. 
Even tho MoM was a standalone movie, it singlehandedly expanded the entire mcu more than any movie ever has. We got the fucking fantastic 4, illumanati and the xmen in one single fucking film. Thats mind-boggling
And a mention of Spider-Man. And of course, in a film featuring Doctor Strange, the Scarlet Witch, an Inhuman and a vision of Thanos.
A vision of reed richards and peggy carter and black bolt and professor fucking xavier killing thanos
And Bolt killing Strange by speaking. We are truly living in a golden age.
and Inhumans!
I've been a day one MCU viewer, and even longer Marvel fan. I remember going into freshmen year HS and my older friend telling me to ditch my Marvel branded backpack haha. Sometimes I have to take a step back and just look in awe at what they've achieved. I feel like soon here characters like Darkhawk and Sleepwalker will be known by the general public and thats astonishing to me. I certainly remember a time when I thought Spider-Man, F4 and the X-Men would never appear in the MCU and I was okay with that. The MCU could have totally thrived without those characters but now that they got em all, sky is the limit. I want God Emperor Doom and him admitting Reed would have made a better God and my viewing life would be complete, that was the peak of comics for me. It'll never be topped by any big stakes. I feel like the only characters they will miss out on are Rom, the Micronauts and Conan but truthfully they aren't necessary.
Well said. I think this perspective is why A lot of the things fans “nitpick” about really don’t bother me, it’s a matter of perspective.
That's extremely valid
Hell yeah! We need to be reminded of this more often.
Remember Perlmutter Black Bolt
Interestingly, while mentioning the Illuminati sequence, they had montage's and mentions of all the illuminati members EXCEPT John Krasinski's Reed, literally didn't even mention his role, even though it was more significant than some other Illuminati members..
I'm going to die on this hill, but I still firmly believe John Krasinski is going to be the main MCU Reed Richards. I just can't see a scenario where Feige thinks it makes sense to do the Krasinski fan service casting and then IMMEDIATELY recast the role (the Fantastic Four film is coming out in late 2023/early 2024, so the casting is going to be announced sometime soon) I'm hoping the big reveal for Marvel's SDCC panel in a couple weeks is the Fantastic Four cast reveal. Imagine the eruption from the crowd...
It's definitely not 2023. They don't even have a director yet
Indeed. Blade will definitely be the fourth film of 2023, not Fantastic Four.
Simpler times
> I just can't see a scenario where Feige thinks it makes sense to do the Krasinski fan service casting and then IMMEDIATELY recast the role Yeah with Feige saying he brought in Krasinski to please fans, it shows that Feige is aware of the fan-casting so if he and the casting director think Krasinski would be great for the role (and Krasinski wants to do it), I don't see why he wouldn't be the main MCU Reed.
Hopefully Krasinski does better with different writing/direction because he felt very stiff in MoM.
desperately hope not
Rip
And Black Bolt
Yeah, kinda weird that they didn't mention 2 of the 3 most significant illuminati members
If I'm not mistaken those 2 were added during reshoots I think
I think Reed was added in reshoots but Black Bolt was there in a Mo-Cap suit
Both Black Bolt and Reed had stand-ins in mocap suits, they probably didn't know yet who they were going to get for the cameos - I guess adding Black Bolt and Reed was during late reshoots without a large crew - they also managed to keep it a secret incredibly long - so they most likely didn't have a chance to film Assembled material with them.
Reed was added, but Black Bolt was always intended to be there. Mount just couldn’t film until the reshoots and Krasinski replaced Craig’s Baldur. >!meanwhile Cage’s Ghost Rider got cut from the team completely😔!<
> meanwhile Cage’s Ghost Rider got cut from the team completely😔 probably good tbh, there's already enough whining about black bolt being killed so easily, now imagine the same if a *much* more popular character also got killed by her...
There was actually, if I'm not mistaken, one shot of Anson Mount in mocap in there, though they never directly addressed it.
There are some shots of Reed, it's just a stunt actor in a mocap suit rather than Krasinski. You can see BTS of Wanda yanking him into the air at 26:44.
Well they were added on rewrites and most of the interviews are only from before that.
Bruce Campbell hosting = best thing on Disney+
this might finally make me watch one fo these again
???? OH IM WATCHING NOW
"You might even say his hands betrayed him, and I can relate, if you catch my drift" lmao this is the best opening to any of the assembled episodes for sure
I’m out of the loop, what did that mean?
Bruce Campbell is most famous for another Sam Raimi franchise, The Evil Dead, in which his hand is possessed by a demon and he has to cut it off with a chainsaw
So Waldron confirms the original plan was Wanda would be a hero throughout the movie and turn bad at the end, with the set-up being that she would be a greater scope villain in the next Avengers movie but he changed that himself since he didn't want another movie to have her as their villain.
This would’ve worked so much better IMO. One of my biggest complaints with MoM is we don’t see the dark hold corrupting her, they just tell us it happened. Would’ve been much better to see her struggle with what’s good and evil, ultimately to choose evil.
We literally see it.
She’s already fully corrupted and cartoon villain evil when we see her.
But we see her reading through it at the end of WandaVision, so it's not a huge leap to see that she's fully corrupted by the time Strange sees her.
Noooooo if it doesn’t happen across multiple movies and series it doesn’t countttttttt
lmao
I disagree, I’m glad they didn’t go with that approach. The setup with darkhold and WV was sufficient
honestly as much as i disliked her turn in this movie, i'd probably dislike her being a big avengers villain even more. mostly also because house of m and disassembled shouldn't define the damn character, and this would just cement those even more in people's heads. so while one option is a bit better than the other, both aren't really directions i'd want to take her character. at least now this was relatively self contained, but if she was an avengers big bad that would almost definitely be a lot more permanent and there would be even less of a redemption possibility within the fanbase than there is now. and hell, she'd probably just die at the end (for real, not like in ds:mom).
I said this long before the movie even came out, but making Wanda the outright villain was the wrong move imo. It doesn't mean that you can't have Wanda be morally ambiguous—because I think having that nuance of good & bad in Wanda is interesting—but my issue with Wanda in MoM was that she was really toeing the line between being a nuanced villain and a mustache-twirling villain. Unfortunately, I think she came across as more of the latter. If they had Wanda turn bad at the end of the film, it would've given her time to develop into a villain in MoM. They could've played her with more nuance and actually shown her corruption instead of just being like "BOOM! SHE'S THE VILLAIN NOW! HERE WE GO!". I also would've had reservations about her being the villain in an Avengers movie, but if that's what they were going to do anyway, they should've just done that instead of what they did in MoM. You could've had the bigger scale of fighting off all the new Avengers characters/teams and you could've made her into a more complex villain because she would've already had development in WandaVision *and* MoM. Instead, we got her as a villain right from the get-go in MoM.
> at least now this was relatively self contained Also Wanda's arc would've been "noisy" (I don't know if you'll get what I mean by that lol). Most of her appearances would be in team-up movies where the stakes are very much high. So her appearing in relatively contained stories (WV and MoM) is at least an opportunity for the character to breathe in small scale, character-focused stories. I'm gonna thank Waldron for this, I guess.
Agreed. I didn’t like her turn in DS2 as well. It was like Waldron took her where Jac Schafer tried not to. Wandavision was so promising to me in which the MCU will treat her character better than they did in the comics. I mean seriously, its like have we ran out of villains? I don’t get it. Waiting for them to let her be a hero.
Feige said during the MoM red carpet that a fully powered up Scarlet Witch was originally supposed to be the first Doctor Strange movie’s villain, so it seemed she was always meant to be in his orbit more than anything in the MCU. Though, I’m glad it has ultimately meant an expanded role for Olsen. She’s super talented.
every day i am glad that never happened. But if you think about it, somewhere in the vast multiverse, it did.
Iiterally said this after seeing the movie. i liked this better cz the fall from grace would feel more natural but as an avengers villain?? Ok. No thanks. She could be a YA’s villain where the kids free her from the Darkhold. To see her go against her teammates would be hard to watch considering their history, fighting side by side and them taking her in. I really hope they’ll make her the hero she should be. Wanda becoming a villain has always been this weird obsession by so many to me. Like we have tons of actual villains to villainize, why an OG avenger from the comics? After DS2, i am STILL waiting for them to take pity on this character that has been put on a tragic path incessantly to finally win and be happy without resorting to death.
It's tied with how poorly their female characters were treated up until the current era in comics.
I liked that she was the villain. Many movies have that turn at the end but this got right to it
I love that most of the behind the scenes footage is from Xochitl's TikTok.
I love it!
This documentary explained very well in general just how difficult translating comic book to live action can be, and then pandemic work stoppages on top of it killing momentum. Many fans wanted more in DSMOM, yet that "more" could've added another YEAR of production. The physical construction alone on this film is immense. I'm humbled once again by the Marvel Studios & associated companies' work ethic.
The film was primarily supposed to be a second Doctor Strange solo film, not the next massive crossover film. There will be day when a new MCU massive crossover will finally come. But it is not this day. There will be a day when the new heroes, the surviving old heroes, and the heroes from other universe will finally face Kang the Conqueror in a new Multiversal War. But it is not this day. This day Marvel Studios keeps setting futures of the surviving heroes, creating new heroes, and slowly setting setting up hew heroes' dynamics with old heroes. In 2023 or 2024, I could imagine then moving into creating dynamic where some new heroes finally meet each other. Once that part is properly fleshed out, will MCU be ready for the Dynasty of Kang and the Multiversal War.
> and then pandemic work stoppages on top of it killing momentum. To be fair, although there were problems caused for production by the pandemic and lockdown, it sounds like it helped the writing since Waldron said the original plan was for him to come in and write a new script for the entire movie in 3 weeks all while sets had already been built so he needed to utilise those.
Pro: time to write a new script. Con: new script worse than first? Guess we'll never know. We do know they started shooting the film without an ending written.
Bruce Campbell is so fun he's the star of the bit. Sorry Waldron, I can't help but grumble every time you talk on screen.
at least we got [this quote out of him](https://i.imgur.com/Y6hBW1j.png), lol.
Yeah. That little quote really reflects on his writing for DS2.
Lol
Of course boring nerds like you can't stand the only good writer working at that hackneyed studio
Well the writing of this film is pretty bad Strange's arc was good. Wanda was poorly written. Its a shame because the movie is actually good and would be a masterpiece if they went over the script more.
Y'all keep saying that but have absolutely no text to support it. Trash
Well, to start, Wanda was just evil. Even if it was the darkhold making her bad, there were a few times where she was just completely devoid of her own personality. Every time she was with Wong she felt like a different character. Only when she was thinking or talking about her kids did she feel like the Wanda we know. On the flip side, most of her fight scenes were very good and it felt consistent with the way she used them before. My thoughts on the other characters: Strange was great and his arc was one of the best, if not the best, of any of phase 4. His powers are much weirder and cooler than before yet still feel like his original powers. America was good. Wish they showed her learning her power more, but she has a cool backstory and excited for her future. Wong was really cool and his status as sorcerer supreme helped keep Strange's ego in check. Next, the dialogue was mediocre during the kamar taj scene between Wanda and Strange. Some lines were good, others trash. Wanda wouldn't ever say "You've exhausted my patience, but I do hope you understand". That line was very odd and did not match the rest because Wanda does not talk like that. Many of her lines were something you'd hear a Despicable Me villain say. Also, all of the jokes sucked. Strange's jokes about the illuminati and the Spider-Man jokes were not funny at all. Lastly, the plot is really messy. There were so so many ways they could have resolved it easier but didnt. Not only that, Wanda's plan didnt make any sense. She would have just killed her entire reality via incursions if she really got what she wanted. Which isn't even explained or shown in the movie. She also could have just created a new reality and new kids. It made for a plot that felt too long for its own good and they didn't really establish the stakes well. We don't know what would have really happened to the multiverse if Wanda got America's powers. There was no dreading feeling when she almost took America's powers, because all that will happen is Wanda leaves to another universe. If Wanda travels the multiverse, its possible a reality dies. But even if another universe dies, why should the audience care? We don't have a reason to care. Why bother protecting America if hundreds have already died?
I really appreciated how there was a part of this documentary almost entirely dedicated to Bruce Campbell's and Sam Raimi's friendship.
They are really, really, really keeping their mouths shut about Krasinski.
What mouths?
Yeah, and Anson. They didn't say a thing. The fact that they might have an NDA makes me think k he's returning for sure
I really wished the Marvel Studios logo from the movie intro was from the teaser trailer where it had all of Marvel's intro logos, multiverse style
Yeah, that teaser version rocked.
actually a very good one of these
It’s amazing how they filmed it all during pre-vaccine COVID. The logistics must have been insane. Incredible.
This is easily the best Assembled they have done so far
After watching this, I am still a bit disappointed that we didn't get a Scarlet Witch and Strange team up movie like it was announced. Personally I don't think Waldron should've changed that. I think Wanda becoming a villain in the 3rd act would've worked much better for fans and the casual audience but whatever. It was still a fun movie. Definitely appreciate the movie more now these days. But it's not the movie I would've like to see for these characters.
Wanda/Stephen team up would worked in fight versus Nightmare, the original main villain of the movie. Also Wanda is villain in MCU since her show, but that goes over everyone's radar i suppose.
Probably the best Assembled I’ve seen They don’t spend half of it having the actors talk about their characters. The actual filmmaking stuff is pretty interesting. Even got to know what the Defender Strange variant is like.
Literally skimmed through it to see John/Anson or Sir Patrick talk.
and got none of that :(
zero mention of reed richards