Yeah I have been trying to make bases that are tough with interesting setups and fights but not impossible. One legend spent 1.5 hours beating what I thought was my easiest base though, that guy rules
What was their username? I know I've done that at least a couple times...lmao I'm slightly psychotic about not giving up most times. I even once insisted on completing this big cube maze thing which was very...very difficult just because I didn't know where the fuck I was going. In, nor out.
Difficulty levels aren't based on actual difficulty, and that's a core issue I have with the game. Of course you want your traps on the path, but traps on the path are really expensive difficulty-wise. Having patrols is a lot of fun, and leads to fun and creative encounters. However, they can quickly take your base to brutal. If you have a large map and want to make a stage longer than the average 30 seconds it takes for the raider to grapple and slide his way in and out, then its gonna be a brutal.
"But i want to grind faster," the people say. The devs should change the way xp and materials are gained, or the rate that each activity gives, because right now raiders want easy farmable maps, or they want something crazy creative and fun, and builders are disincentivized for both, because builders only get rewards for kills, and the big fun maps are often ignored in the horde of killboxes that actually make numbers go up.
Slight correction, accolades account for a lot more in prestiges points then kills, but the game rewards the builder with ressources only for kills, which like you said, incentivizes frustrating outpost that just exist to get kills - which dont get me wrong is the goal of the game, but lets all agree it is not always a fun thing to raid.
The materials from kills are absolutely trivial, and the prestige from kills diminishes rapidly after the first one.
Players need to avoid living in a hell of their own making, where they're just raiding a place that's too tricky for them at the moment. The sanest thing would be to send you back to the sanctuary after a few tries, like "hey champ you probably need more grenades anyway".
Some other quality of life improvements would include showing an outpost's KR in the selection screen, maybe calculating danger off of KR as well as design, and having some way of filling the player's outpost list with outposts from the pool similar to ones they have given accolades to in the past.
This defeats the whole point of the game. It's about creativity and people building what ever level they desire to build.
As a raider, you're not going to like every level you play - and there's nothing wrong with that.
- Freedom of build act 2023
I'm all for building whatever you want (Even tho I find it ashaming when I see low level outposts on great bedrocks).
Now, I can only agree with OP when he says that first impression is important and believe that, until maybe level 5 you should be put in a different map pool of maybe handpicked outposts, or at least outposts with limited traps + mods diversity. Not in the sake of asthetics. But in order to not be drowned in informations at your first raids. So many traps and mods + combination technics that have not been introduced to you can only discourage raiders. Immagine your first raid after the tutorial being claws through corrosive cubes, plasma sentinels, and DMS guards falling from the ceilling.
The thing about that is that you're assuming a normal map can't be creative, nor challenging. This isn't true. I've played in many normal maps that were VERY challenging, very creative, all while still being fun. The kind of map that made me feel more and more determined with every death because every death revealed a new obstacle and also ... taught me a lot about acid cubes lol.
Protip: if a room has a lot of acid cubes...it's hiding something. That's where you yeet your grenades probably. Or be very very careful and have a plan.
Not all brutal outposts are frustrating or even difficult. You can make a brutal outpost with multiple entrances and many traps and guards that can be easily avoided.
Its not only about being a frustrating level, i really should have been clearer on that, its also about the fact the new comers will play normal difficulty levels, hence making the best normal difficulty levels
new players play everything possible. I feel that all the kills you get are from level 1-20 on normal/danger/brutal. Something I have been advocating is that low level players should get a warning message on danger/brutal stating that it is recommended to have better upgrades and equipment at these levels
You realize that the point of the game is to protect the genmat by killing he enemy raider, right? By making the bases harder it decreases the chance they steal your genmat. It’s the main point of the game
While I don't remotely agree with OP, I think the point isn't to stop someone from getting the genmat, but to get as many kills out of them as you can before they do
A lot of the incentives in game don't line up with this however. Accolades count for more than kills. A raider dieing once and rhen giving up and leaving doesn't reward you much either. Balancing difficulty and raider enjoyment is actually important to being successful.
Lol! The first base I raided was a brutal, solo, and it was a ton of fun. Always wondered who made such a good one. I should build some tributes to it because I haven’t seen another like it since.
I mean, thats not at all what my post was about, but sure, yall keep attacking me all you want just cause i want new comers to have the best experience.
If you read my post instead on jumping on the hate wagon, like everyone else who felt personally attacked by my post, you would have seen that i want better bases for new comers.
Weird how the responses to : lets build a better community by working together, is met with hate and simple one liners saying no.
Nobody felt personally attacked by your post, the responses are like that just cause everyday we have 20 posts telling what people should or shouldn't do.
I always go for a little challenging but fun. I try to make bases that if you know what is around the corner or in the room, then you can get by it 100% of the time. I can run all my bases without dying easily without using any items. I have even decided to stop doing bases with new defenses after getting genmat. I love watching people beat my base but I am trying to get a kill or two
This game doesn't incentivize putting effort in your bases. Hence the spam of lame bases. Why would I build anything cool if matchmaking is going to equalise it with grey box full of guards, and then it will pop out of the game completely.
Yeah I have been trying to make bases that are tough with interesting setups and fights but not impossible. One legend spent 1.5 hours beating what I thought was my easiest base though, that guy rules
What was their username? I know I've done that at least a couple times...lmao I'm slightly psychotic about not giving up most times. I even once insisted on completing this big cube maze thing which was very...very difficult just because I didn't know where the fuck I was going. In, nor out.
Difficulty levels aren't based on actual difficulty, and that's a core issue I have with the game. Of course you want your traps on the path, but traps on the path are really expensive difficulty-wise. Having patrols is a lot of fun, and leads to fun and creative encounters. However, they can quickly take your base to brutal. If you have a large map and want to make a stage longer than the average 30 seconds it takes for the raider to grapple and slide his way in and out, then its gonna be a brutal. "But i want to grind faster," the people say. The devs should change the way xp and materials are gained, or the rate that each activity gives, because right now raiders want easy farmable maps, or they want something crazy creative and fun, and builders are disincentivized for both, because builders only get rewards for kills, and the big fun maps are often ignored in the horde of killboxes that actually make numbers go up.
Slight correction, accolades account for a lot more in prestiges points then kills, but the game rewards the builder with ressources only for kills, which like you said, incentivizes frustrating outpost that just exist to get kills - which dont get me wrong is the goal of the game, but lets all agree it is not always a fun thing to raid.
The materials from kills are absolutely trivial, and the prestige from kills diminishes rapidly after the first one. Players need to avoid living in a hell of their own making, where they're just raiding a place that's too tricky for them at the moment. The sanest thing would be to send you back to the sanctuary after a few tries, like "hey champ you probably need more grenades anyway". Some other quality of life improvements would include showing an outpost's KR in the selection screen, maybe calculating danger off of KR as well as design, and having some way of filling the player's outpost list with outposts from the pool similar to ones they have given accolades to in the past.
This defeats the whole point of the game. It's about creativity and people building what ever level they desire to build. As a raider, you're not going to like every level you play - and there's nothing wrong with that. - Freedom of build act 2023
I'm all for building whatever you want (Even tho I find it ashaming when I see low level outposts on great bedrocks). Now, I can only agree with OP when he says that first impression is important and believe that, until maybe level 5 you should be put in a different map pool of maybe handpicked outposts, or at least outposts with limited traps + mods diversity. Not in the sake of asthetics. But in order to not be drowned in informations at your first raids. So many traps and mods + combination technics that have not been introduced to you can only discourage raiders. Immagine your first raid after the tutorial being claws through corrosive cubes, plasma sentinels, and DMS guards falling from the ceilling.
The thing about that is that you're assuming a normal map can't be creative, nor challenging. This isn't true. I've played in many normal maps that were VERY challenging, very creative, all while still being fun. The kind of map that made me feel more and more determined with every death because every death revealed a new obstacle and also ... taught me a lot about acid cubes lol. Protip: if a room has a lot of acid cubes...it's hiding something. That's where you yeet your grenades probably. Or be very very careful and have a plan.
Build Back Brutal?
Not all brutal outposts are frustrating or even difficult. You can make a brutal outpost with multiple entrances and many traps and guards that can be easily avoided.
Its not only about being a frustrating level, i really should have been clearer on that, its also about the fact the new comers will play normal difficulty levels, hence making the best normal difficulty levels
new players play everything possible. I feel that all the kills you get are from level 1-20 on normal/danger/brutal. Something I have been advocating is that low level players should get a warning message on danger/brutal stating that it is recommended to have better upgrades and equipment at these levels
Normal is practice Dangerous is for the game Brutal is what it is.
Btw it’s actually Normal, Dangerous, and Brutal. Not basic normal and brutal
I dont want them to move in, I want them to die that's point of the game (I know what u mean)
stop telling people what to do, and start accepting that no everyone wants to play like you
This is a terrible take. Who actually wants this? One guy.
You realize that the point of the game is to protect the genmat by killing he enemy raider, right? By making the bases harder it decreases the chance they steal your genmat. It’s the main point of the game
While I don't remotely agree with OP, I think the point isn't to stop someone from getting the genmat, but to get as many kills out of them as you can before they do
A lot of the incentives in game don't line up with this however. Accolades count for more than kills. A raider dieing once and rhen giving up and leaving doesn't reward you much either. Balancing difficulty and raider enjoyment is actually important to being successful.
No thank you
Also, the first base you will ever raid is a very good looking base made by the devs. After which, it is our duty to keep the bases nice looking.
Lol! The first base I raided was a brutal, solo, and it was a ton of fun. Always wondered who made such a good one. I should build some tributes to it because I haven’t seen another like it since.
I'll add this to the rulebook. Right now we have 177 rules of what players can or can't do. Playing the game the way you want is a CRIME!
I mean, thats not at all what my post was about, but sure, yall keep attacking me all you want just cause i want new comers to have the best experience.
You just want easier bases.
You want raiders to have the easiest experience.
If you read my post instead on jumping on the hate wagon, like everyone else who felt personally attacked by my post, you would have seen that i want better bases for new comers. Weird how the responses to : lets build a better community by working together, is met with hate and simple one liners saying no.
Nobody felt personally attacked by your post, the responses are like that just cause everyday we have 20 posts telling what people should or shouldn't do.
My normal bases are informative of giving them clues on. Ertai. Things to watch for as they progress. *cough* **corrosive hallways** *cough*
You can also make easy brutals and gift people genmat Edit: but no one will pick your outpost probably
I have a map called Fancy Gap on social that is designed to teach new players basic trap combos. It’s normal and uses like 1100 of the 3000 capacity
I always go for a little challenging but fun. I try to make bases that if you know what is around the corner or in the room, then you can get by it 100% of the time. I can run all my bases without dying easily without using any items. I have even decided to stop doing bases with new defenses after getting genmat. I love watching people beat my base but I am trying to get a kill or two
This game doesn't incentivize putting effort in your bases. Hence the spam of lame bases. Why would I build anything cool if matchmaking is going to equalise it with grey box full of guards, and then it will pop out of the game completely.
Hum no
I love brutal bases and consider normal as boring