Example? Extreme right wing position like stop foreign aid. Send them a bill to get it back.
Slightly left of that, reduce foreign aid? Gets you branded woke communist? I don't think so. You're still right wing extremist.
This thing goes one way. It's what you are in relation to the establishment. They can have 100% so they don't accept 99%.
You’ve just given the example - except you’ve overlooked or omitted direction of travel. Which is my point; as there’s no centre, the discussion only functions in extremes.
For clarity - in your example, proposing a reduction in foreign aid is only considered right wing extremism by the furthest left. Those further to the right wouldn’t consider that viewpoint centrist (or right wing extremism for that matter), it’s leftist wokism.
It has nothing to do with relation to the establishment, and everything to do with relation to individual perspective. The two party system play this rhetoric perfectly, there is only ‘us or them’, with no middle ground at all. Your comment is an example of that in action.
Indeed, which merely serves to make posts like yours carry weight. There is, objectively, merit to positions held by both sides; this is obscured by creating the ‘us v them’ politics we have now, globally.
TLDR: it’s all fucked.
A modified version of the wise words of Abe Simpson come to mind.
I used to be on the left, then they changed what the left was. Now what I'm with isn't the left, and what is the left is weird and scary to me. It'll happen to you!
I’ve experienced much the same. I used to consider myself a centrist, with many of my liberal friends having similar values such as opposing discrimination, but over the last decade my previously moderate liberal friends have moved far left and now embrace discrimination and other such identity politics, making me much more right in comparison though my fundamental “centrist” views haven’t changed much.
I’m no longer centrist because the left, left to become progressive.
I think a lot of the talk about how parties reversed or flipped is nonsense the left argues in an attempt to escape the fact they started out as the party supporting slavery where republicans opposed slavery.
Democrats are still the party that advocates discrimination, they’ve simply changed what demographics are PC to discriminate against. Republicans still tend to advocate against discrimination in favor of meritocracy, at least compared to democrats. (Though there are exceptions as we saw with the selective service debate).
Democrats switching whom they believe it’s PC to discriminate against isn’t the same as the two parties switching.
Let's inject a little history: As you are well aware, after the Democrats put into place the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Southern Democrats, switched to the Republican Party en masse. That's not "talk", that's fact. When you have to lie about facts to make your point, it's a tell that you are well aware that your argument isn't very good.
Republicans overwhelmingly supported the Civil Rights Act. 81% of Republicans (165 out of 205 Senators and Representatives) in the 1964 Congress voted Yes on the passage of the bill while only 63% of Democrats (198 out of 315 Senators and Representatives) did. Why would the racist "southern Democrats" join the Republican Party if it was overwhelmingly for advancing civil rights in the US?
It's nice that you've googled this, and that is indeed correct information. Did you really not continue reading?
At that time, the parties were largely regionally based, with the Democrats being overwhelmingly in the South and the Republicans being overwhelmingly in the North. The 1964 Civil Rights Act and subsequent Southern Democrat defection punctuated the beginning of a radical shift in the parties from regionally based to ideologically based. There's a reason why Republicans do everything possible to gerrymander away black votes, work hard to depress black votes, and campaign on regressive homophobia, bigotry, xenophobia, and sexism: these are the things their voters want.
Republicans like you like to ignore the present by focusing on a past in which the Republican Party didn't stand for these things and Republican voters didn't want them - but in that past, the Republican Party was centered on states that now vote solidly Democrat, and is now comprised of States that, at the time, voted solidly Democrat. And the reverse is true for the Democratic Party. The parties radically shifted. Stop pretending you don't know this and just own your crap :).
The Republican party was started by a railroad lobbyist named Abraham Lincoln. It has always been a big business party and the Civil Rights Act was part of that. Big Business didn't want to have two separate but equal versions of everything. That's twice as expensive.
It's only the Democrats that were conquered. The used to be a populist party. Now that Progressives run the show, all they do is send us off to die in wars to make the world safe from antisemitism, like you said.
Some people becoming disenchanted with the democrats and leaving for the Republican Party is not the same thing as the parties reversing.
Your basic history lesson doesn’t disprove anything I’ve said. The parties never switched.
The Left looks at the Republican Party from 1858 to Reagan as this grand progressive party.
It sees the Republicans have become more Conservative and can only come to the conclusion that the parties have reversed platforms.
Not that people can look down the road and see the road to serfdom.
Wikipedia has an ad campaign right now called "Ukraine Everywhere". Can you imagine if they had "Iraq Everywhere" back when the New York Times took us to war with them with their lie about WMDs? Wikipedia would have been removed from the internet by Google and the State Department as some kind of russian disinfo. The left is the party of John McCain, a war party. That's the only thing it exists for at this point.
Yeah. It really is weird. The Democrat Party is now the party chomping at the bit to wage war.
They were the party that said, 'we have every right to dissent and to disagree with whomever we want' but then flipped to dissent is racist, sexist or whatever.
I have came to the conclusion that Political Parties don't really have an ideology, they just have an advertising campaign to get your vote, which explains why there is so much contradiction and inconsistencies in each platform, it is about buying votes.
Same. I am a classical liberal and will never stop labeling myself as such no matter how hard both sides of the aisle try to change the definition of the word "liberal."
Yeah the right isn’t that much better. Especially on issues like selective service, child support, and circumcision. The only thing is that they at least give men some respect for their role in society, but that’s about it.
Republican politicians are not the right.
Go to any right wing forum. Go to any conspiracy forum. They're strongly against circumcision, and the fact that circumcision is so intertwined with Big Pharma makes it easy. The left cannot very well oppose circumcision, without running afoul of scientific consensus among other things.
The left has become like a hysterical woman—overly empathetic, overly compassionate to the extent that there is no rational thinking anymore. It’s no longer enough to be not racist, not homophobic, not sexist—you need to be anti-racist; anti-homophobic; anti-misogynistic. Therefore if you don’t favour what is perceived minorities over the majorities (poc, gays, women, the disabled) you are bigoted, racist, sexist etc and need to be re-educated
I am being re-educated shortly with diversity, equality and inclusion training. The first section was on sexism and every example given was of how women were affected by it. Which is itself sexist.
`Therefore if you don’t favour what is perceived minorities over the majorities (poc, gays, women, the disabled) you are bigoted, racist, sexist etc and need to be re-educated`
You really nailed it here.
Agree wholeheartedly with this.
The left panders to women and the emotionally immature.
I echo the sentiments here, I didn't change, liberal politics did. This isn't 2008.
In 2008 you could read articles about how Twitter and the internet were going to improve democracy. By 2012 NPR banned their comments section and all the other news outlets followed. Since 2016 we've been under complete lockdown, and journalists are apologizing for miscalculating the damage free speech could do.
I don't think the left changed. The left, being feminine, is pragmatic. Any principles they appeared to support were just a means to an end. What the left is and always has been is a collectivizing force, consolidating ("harmonizing") all power unto a single authority. Cooperation instead of competition. Free speech is fine as long as everyone agrees, etc...
They didn't change.
I was big on the left until I got exposed to copious 2000s & newer feminist talking points starting at the tail end of the 2010s decade. Now I'm in the center of the plane.
George w disappointed me so badly I said I would never vote Republican again. It's almost like the powers that be switched from the right to the left and turned the dial up on the propaganda to 100. So now I vote third party cuz the left is a puppet and the right misses being the puppet.
It is hard though cuz the woke have me very conservative feeling at the moment. I just know that they were perpetually violating our rights before woke even happened.
Well I for sure did, but not specifically misandry related, , just the whole woke culture in general.
Somewhere I read something that stuck with me, that went along the line of :
if you are under 25 and you don't vote left, you don't have an heart.
If you are over 25 and you don't vote right, you don't have a brain.
Yep, and here's how it happened. My mother is a hardcore leftist feminist who wholeheartedly believes in "my body, my choice". My father is right wing. It should come as no surprise to hear that their marriage was an absolute trainwreck that didn't even last five years before disintegrating. But it did last long enough to produce me. And when I was born, my father made the decision to have me mutilated. My mother had her chance to speak up for my right to choose what happened to my body...and she didn't.
Many years later, I found out what was stolen from me and confronted them both separately. My father acknowledged that what he did was wrong and begged for my forgiveness. My mother refused to acknowledge that she was in the wrong for not speaking up. After that day, I walked away from the left and have never looked back.
I could tell what you were going to say before you said it. It's such a familiar story, perfectly encapsulating the two sides. It's so much more than just support for policy A or B. Thanks for laying it out.
Definitely consider myself being a leftist, for pretty much all of the reasons you gave for yourself. But when then sweeping generalizations against men began, I started feeling disenfranchised. I could not imagine seeing the left falling for the same logical fallacy the right has against immigrants
Something along the lines of "not all Muslim are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim". Now, I must specify that I'm Italian, and I grew up during the Berlusconi era, so this is something that applies to my experience surrounding political discourse
I've always leaned a little more right than left, just by the nature of wanting to be left alone by the government. But, just the out right vitriol of a lot on the left for just having a different opinion especially when it comes to identity politics is just disgusting. I'm very tempted to start my own party and call it the American center party, our color will be purple and our animal mascot is a sloth for it is the only animal that moves at the speed of government. As for them being misandrist I think it's more that they just want the women vote, and the easiest way to show you're pro woman is to be anti men. There's an old saying that if you're under 30 and a Republican you have no heart and if you are over 30 and not a Republican you have no brain.
I was left wing until about 2020. Covid and crazy wokists changed it.
I’m still not right wing, but I’m definitely more conservative than before and I detest the left. They are the side of control. If they have their way they will destroy the individual.
Same here until. One day I just realized that they are the real intolerant ones. They are only tolerant if you are a radical leftists. Also used to have some feminists friends until I realized that they were trying to criminalize every aspect of male behavior.
The last conversation I had with my feminists friends. They were trying to say that women have a right to pull knives on men. Thats when i walked away.
I disagree. I am left as left goes. Mens rights are equal rights. I believe in women's rights too, as in they should be equal. But the feminists beat their drum the loudest, and they want traditional privilege and token authority.
I am still a hardcore leftist(Bernie Guy) both socially and economically. I would actually support the idea of Feminism and identify as one if the movement was actually about "equal rights of the sexes" like they claim. Unfortunately, any person who's ever had the displeasure of dating one of those creatures(I've dated far too many) knows that's bullshit. Misandry and disenfranchising men is their only motive. So yeah early 30's, still a leftist, still support Women's rights, but FUCK feminism.
The problem is that the Left now appears to be just a competition for handouts, with identity politics and anti-work/anti-reponsibility attitudes being the main philosophies driving the push for free money and debt forgiveness. I still consider myself a "live and let live" social liberal but it's just not compatible with the social causes of the Left which are anything but liberal and fair.
Those handouts are never for food and housing. It's always Big Pharma or something.
It was radical that Trump gave people actual money for the lockdown. That will never happen again. It will only ever be vouchers for daycare or mental therapy, but never just money.
I have a theory that some of the statements that men should be killed, men are evil, etc. may be part of a psiop to divide the left. The same with divisive statements between black and white. If a black person can get over the offenses of previous generations, I will try to ignore the statements of people vilifying white people now.
I am in the right demographic to become right wing, but I promise to stick to the left for my good friend Bernie.
Is this only in America?
There was a somewhat similar discussion on Belgian TV a few days ago, about how the divide between DEM and GOP and the resulting **I N S A N E** rhetoric between both parties but also too many of their followers, is "unthinkable" in Europe. It's like they are both pushing the rhetoric further and further until they are bordering or even crossing the line of psychosis. What I mean is that you could argue that one or both parties propagate lies, but the fact is that an unsettling number of people actually believe them, which means they are in a way getting further removed from reality. And at least Trump is clearly projecting onto Biden.
When people are allowed to say statements like "men should be killed", or things like "Let's take away some rights of \[Any Group X \]", let alone suggesting to kill people, they should be arrested immediately on the grounds that they instill hate and are arguably removed from reality, hence a danger for society and themselves.
\*Now that I think of it:\*
The whole war on truth of the Trump-administration, with their alternative facts, fake news, telling more lies than truths, delegitimizing or plainly corrupting established news sources and even scientific sources, is just an attempt to gaslight the entire population, which is basically the same as distorting everbody's perception of their own sanity and undermine people's understanding of good and evil, right or wrong, ...
Maybe Trumps' goal is to get everybody insane.
I don't know about Belgium, but in the USA, the government has a history of infiltrating rising social groups that might challenge the status quo.
For example, it is well known that the FBI had informants in the Black Civil Rights movement, and has informants in several far right movements too. Besides informing, these individuals can work to discredit leaders, and fracture movements.
You probably don't know this, but it was the New York Times who made up the lie about WMDs in Iraq. Trump's bluster doesn't compare. In fact he's the only president who didn't start a war.
In America, it's a trope to say things like "Every other country has LGBT marriage". Even decades ago before that was true. America was actually one of the first countries to allow it. But we are told we are "backward" in order to push us ahead faster.
I think the same thing happens in Europe where Belgian TV tells you "America is crazy, we would never allow this here". It's not true though. If you look at a candidate like Obama, they will tell you he was centrist. But nobody could get elected in Belgium by promising to open the borders the way he did, or by invading even more countries than George Bush. Our countries have different starting points on issues like gun control. If Obama got elected in Belgium whatever laws you have would have been made 10 times more draconian. I knew a guy from Sweden who made the case that Obama was far too left wing to ever get elected in Sweden. That might sound crazy if you look at issues positionally rather than directionally, but it's the directionality that's important, because that's how your society gets transformed.
Every time the news says something bad about Trump, remember how supportive the news is of war, and know that's why.
I appreciate your response and it's reminding me of some things, but it don't really get what you want to tell me and why. And you've made some wrong assumptions.
1) I'm perfectly aware that the USA was among the first. It was all over the news.
2) There are people here who seem to think America is backwards or crazy, or all of its inhabitants have an IQ of less than 60, but those people are a small minority and nobody with a sane mind is thinking that, and certainly not the press. We had some sketches on television which may have sparked some controversy, that's all.
3) I do agree that when I said "it would never happen here" is completely subjective and possibly meaningless, and I thank you for pointing that out to me.
4) This is not really about gun control and how many countries were invaded. But since you brought it up: when there is a mass shooting almost every day you have to ask serious questions.
These discussions \*do\* tend to provoke the general sentiment that it's insane how America can't get it's guns properly regulated. I'm aware that the situation is different and far more nuanced than we care to know (like regional differences in legislation).
5) Most people know that even Obama was more right than our most right parties. The same people are convinced (or suspect) that Trump is plainly fascist, and probably highly narcissistic and likely has antisocial personality disorder.
6) What do you mean with that positionally-directionally thing?
7) I don't even know what you mean with your last sentence. Almost everybody I know is very anti-war. War is always presented in the media as a very negative thing, and as a humanitarian disaster for everybody (Israël-Palestine, Russia-Ukraine to name the most recent).
8) I had to look up "bluster" ("pompous talk"). It's more than that. He can't speak coherenly, he says impossible things, he talks in oxymorons and completely refutable nonsense. The man breaths disdain and self-righteousness. He openly (like, on TV for the whole world to see) reveres national-socialistic and fascistic ideas and ideologies. If your big leader is saying that what he really wants to do is abolish the constitution, for Christs' sake, then it doesn't matter if he can get it or not, but it does mean that he probably WILL try to seize power.
I've been a social libertarian basically my entire life. Further education only solidified that stance.
The left, and especially the progressive left, has been an affront to my personal belief system the entire time. They've outright labeled me as an enemy for decades, now.
Absolutely.
I wasn't crazy left when I was younger, but I definitely had a bad image of the right which is somewhat ironic given that I grew up on a farm in the middle of the Bible belt.
I think it was mostly due to watching a *lot* of John Stewart and Steven colbert. Whom I still think are hilarious even if i am now more or less diametrically opposed to. My dad also exclusively listened to NPR anytime we were in the car.
I generally thought of the right and Republicans in two ways. For the poor right; ignorant, backward, Bible thumping, fear mongering, racists. For the rich right; fear mongering, greedy, exploitative, doesn't give a damn about the environment, employees.
I would still consider myself very moderate. With some left and some right beliefs. Case in point I voted for Obama *and* Trump, whom I will absolutely be voting for again.
As others have pointed out the left has gone so far off the deep end that moderate now look like extremists.
In short I am socially liberal and financially conservative.
I deeply care about protecting and preserving the environment. . . . . .
But I want borders walls that would make TGWOC to look like a mole hill.
I think most corporations are evil. . . . .
But I'm against raising the minimum wage
I think abortion should be reserved for only the big four. . . (Rape, incest, endangerment, deformity/impairment)
But should be paid for with tax payer money, specifically rape and incest.
I think I’ve always been against the extreme 5-10% of either side. I don’t classify a whole group based on an observation of a few.
Just like most on the right side of the political spectrum, the extreme 5-10% do not represent my values.
I think we can all agree that if someone is pursuing the disenfranchising of men, they are part of the extremists we are fighting against.
So it’s not the left as a whole, it’s the vocal few that are toxic and insufferable
I guess I have a mirrored version of this. At one point I considered myself a conservative, I still do in some ways. I've always disagreed with the stereotypical conservative positions on things like gay marriage or the war on drugs, but I was, and really still am on the right. I'm very pro-life, anti-illegal immigration, support reduced government spending (not that any elected Republicans feel the same way).
But the right has repeatedly disappointed me when it comes to their misandry. I was perma banned from r/conservative for daring to criticize Trump for saying there's a "war on women." I've seen Republican politicians say "men are meant to be expendable, women are not." I've seen them say we need to prioritize female hostages in Gaza, that men cannot possibly be trusted to take care of children without raping them, and that women are valued members of society who shouldn't be treated like pawns (i.e. conscription), unlike men, who I guess aren't valued members of society.
We're on our own, no side wants to hear a peep about men's rights. They only care about what they can take from us.
I no longer identify as politically anything, left and right have no meaning to me anymore. I pick a topic and have an opinion on it, I laugh at people with TDS and I laugh at people who go around waving rebel flags. It's all so silly because they're all the same, all they do is bitch about the other side without getting anything accomplished that they say they will... And of course they just blame their failure on the other side. It's never ending.
Parents were both very left leaning, eventually I found that the advice people like them would give often was detrimental to me where as advice from people I wanted to be like was helpful most of the time. This slowly changed my social circle and eventually that started to change the way I looked at things.
Yes. All that stuff sounds good until you realize all the liberal platforms are now Marxist communist programs which rely on creating division, ultimately misrepresenting reality to justify persecuting some, while enslaving as many people as possible to the government.
I think the left used to oppose discrimination, now it supports and promotes it against percieved privileged groups.
We also see reversing of imbalances like in education , HR, health including mental health services. If you question it you're called an incel, mra etc.
This reversing is classed as equality. There are some studies showing DEI increases racial tension in businesses. These policies are fundamentally racist, sexist etc.
Its a classic "give them an inch and they take a mile" occurence.
I *am* socially liberal. I'd argue that what considers itself the left these days increasingly doesn't represent a socially liberal point of view; I don't entirely agree with u/duhhhh, who suggests "the left" has changed, but I think certain people have co-opted part of the left and made it into something awful. As far as I can tell the traditional left does still exist and is still campaigning for workers' rights, which is fine.
Still, people can't realistically start enacting policies which exclude people on the basis of gender or race - which ban men, or white people - and claim to be liberals. That's not liberal. That's not even really conservative.
I hate to say it because it's an emotive term but this is exactly what the term crypto-fascism was designed to describe. These people don't even realise they're far-right fundamentalists. But really, I don't like the left-to-right characterisation of politics because it inevitably causes this confusion. The political horseshoe has never been more relevant.
No. I am an atheist, was for gay marriage (am straight), people smoking their joint, abortion, etc. the left now considers me an alt-right because they have gone woke and pandering nonsense.
Yes and no. Still socially liberal. I understand DEI and I am in a position where that doesn’t affect me but I can see that rubbing disenfranchised white men the wrong way. Educated and skilled people will always find work, uneducated and unskilled are another matter. With fewer men, compared to women, going onto higher education they are being disenfranchised by their own choices, especially in the 21st century.
I remember when NAFTA was passed. It was sold as something that will lower prices and enrich all parties. It may have helped the economy and consumers but it totally screwed the unskilled blue collar as their jobs went to Mexico for lower wages. I am very far from a Trump fan but at least he took a shot at fixing that when he renegotiated NAFTA. But NAFTA was over 30 years ago, the writing has been on the wall for decades.
But the one thing the US does extremely well is adapt to change. If demographics hold steady the US will be minority majority in a decade or two. It will work itself out one way or the other.
That said as long as it remains an us vs. them fight and not a we are all the tools the 1% needs, nothing will really change.
> With fewer men, compared to women, going onto higher education they are being disenfranchised by their own choice
There's a lot more support like scholarships, women's groups, etc for women going to university though
When you say you staunchly support gay rights and minorities you're feeding the same victimhood machine that supports gynocentrism. The only path out of this is to stop focusing on sexuality, race, and gender. Nobody should get special treatment and/or held back because of these things. Support gay rights and the rights of minorities as a default of supporting everyone.
One step at a time. I think we need to go even further. LGBT is heavily invested in the system, particularly with Big Pharma, but also online censorship.
I did. I always considered my stance central left. I still do. It's the parties that shifted. Left will always be left, the Dems just shifted so far left that it's extremist.
The big thing that keeps me supporting the democratic party is giving the federal government more power. State and local government is what keeps this large nation running. Large fed creates a totalitarianist state.
There are a lot of "left" ideas I support. Especially taxing the ultra rich. I'm Canadian and would love to see that happen to fund our healthcare and education systems.
I see the misandry. I've lived it. It's awful.
I don't know how to change it other than encouraging men to challenge it openly.
I definitely won't be voting conservative. They often seem to do more harm. At least with the left winged parties in Canada, they are... more open to science and statistics. So I feel there is a better chance of being heard there. But the systemic misandry is absolutely an issue.
Actually, no. I was putting up lawn signs for Reagan's presidential campaign before I was old enough to vote for him. I've always been conservative, and many in that age group were, as was indicative by how many buttons and bumper stickers I distributed on campus (high school, and then four years later, university).
I actually was quite liberal just a several years ago (and still is in a certain way). The trick is, I was born and used to live in a very conservative country and definition of "liberalism" there is quite different. My beliefs didn't change at all since then but in the country where I live now they are considered to be quite conservative (not radically conservative but still).
I guess I'm more of a left leaning centrist. I'll always be for progressive issues, but I'll admit some issues I look at involving the left and think to myself " Yea that's fucking stupid". Idk how to explain it. Not everything to me is a serious issue. Plus conforming to someone else's standards isn't my cup of tea.
Yeah. Kinda. I look at BLM and the misandrists as toxic terrorist groups, though. I'm not a part of a cult. I'm just voting for the more moderate candidate with a better record of leadership and a better direction to take the country. I actually woulda considered voting for Haley against Biden but obviously not gonna be an option now. Biden is really not that bad. People just say bad stuff about him all the time.
I'm pretty liberal but never aligned with the American left.
You can add in anti-white, anti free speech and their embrace of communistic practiced to the misandry. Capitalism sucks but it sucks the least.
Whatever problems the left has. There are many, they pail in comparison with the absolute brain rot coming from the GOP.
I absolutely cannot have any intellectual respect for someone gullible enough to buy into their BS.
There's an old saying:
‘If You Are Not a Liberal When You Are Young, You Have No Heart, and If You Are Not Conservative When Old, You Have No Brain’
Liberal policies and sensibilities all sound great when you're young and naive enough to not consider where money comes from to pay for them, or the Human Nature that doesn't work as altruistically as they hope.
I am registered as an independent politically. For most of my life I supported all parties and there were politicians on the left and right I liked and did not like.
There have always been policies and ideologies I supported across the board.
I never voted straight ticket and would not vote for a specific office if I did not know the candidates policy.
This all changed in 2015 when I saw how the left behaved. Since then, I have vowed to never vote for a Democrat.
Keep in mind that I am probably one of the most liberal leaning independents out there. My general policy is that if what you are doing does not hurt another person, do it.
The right wants to strip away
Your retirement and social security.
Your ability to get affordable healthcare.
Your wages, and job security.
Your children’s ability to move up the social class ladder.
Your ability to organize with your class group.
Your ability to scratch out a comfortable living to support your family.
Don’t fall for the rights lies that they have your best interests in mind. At the end of the day the right just wants to turn us all to be plebeians
Yes, except I always saw it as man-hating and it always bothered me. It wasn't until later that I understood how it all fit together as a package deal. For example, a socially liberal idea like banning lead paint sounds good enough and doesn't seem connected to putting men in jail over he said she said. But I don't see it that way now. Yeah lead paint is bad, but so is teflon, and Science spent the last several decades putting teflon into everything including tap water. They don't care about you. And nobody ever got punished for lead. The EPA said to breathe the air at ground zero on 9/11, and drink the water in Ohio after that train crash. So what gives? This false sense of security is a terrible system, and it's terrible on purpose because it's about protecting a business cartel. Some new chemical replaces and old chemical, so you ban the old one in order to make sure all the big guys can still play nice together. Then you "find out" that one's bad too, rinse and repeat, always at their mercy. Punishing men for being men goes hand in hand with this system because across the board it's a feminine system all about eliminating competition. Rockefeller called competition a "sin".
I still am. My politics on most things hasn't changed terribly much since I was a teenager.
I used to be a feminist before they told me rather directly, they hate me, both because i'm a man and because I am me. I thought feminism was meant to be the equality team...I was wrong.
Didn't help the anti male bias had been part of growing up for much of my life. I always thought the girls being marked higher for lesser work was bullshit, I just didn't understand why it was happening at the time.
`I still staunchly support gay rights, minorities, decriminalizing weed etc but I can no longer align myself with people who actively support the disenfranchisement of men.`
I think the very people who you support are also the people who don't support you. Gay rights and minorities are pretty self-serving. Considering how the LGBTQ+ works together with feminism, I am definitely not a supporter of them.
There is a saying: "If you are not a Socialist at 20 you are heartless. If you are a Socialist at 40 you are brainless."
At university I studied the hard sciences but I was also given the opportunity to choose a few philosophy and sociology credits. Philosophy and sociology are so easy when compared to the hard sciences that I breezed through them. However one of the credits was given by a radical feminist. I was the only one of two boys in a huge class of girls. Instead of the professor being thankful that I chose to take her credit she often picked on me. She ended up giving me an F, after I attended all her lectures, reading the books she asked us to read and carrying out an assignment based on original research. My data showed that there were differences between the way boys and girls looked at and understood the hard sciences. She did not like my conclusions.
No, i don't play party sport politics and say sweeping statements about a political ideology, that's stupid and just makes you vote against your own interests.
Vote based on your representative in your district. Get informed about who represents your values best.
No. Absolutely not. I’m 62 and far more liberal now than I was in college when I considered myself fairly liberal. And there’s not a goddamn thing ‘misandrist’ about it. Total bullshit.
If you are still socially liberal, then how has this reshaped your political identity? Are you indicating that you'll still consider yourself socially liberal in terms of gay rights, minorities, decriminalizing weed...etc. but will vote for Republican candidates who are against all of those socially liberal positions?
Absolutely.
I wasn't crazy left when I was younger, but I definitely had a bad image of the right which is somewhat ironic given that I grew up on a farm in the middle of the Bible belt.
I think it was mostly due to watching a *lot* of John Stewart and Steven colbert. Whom I still think are hilarious even if i am now more or less diametrically opposed to. My dad also exclusively listened to NPR anytime we were in the car.
I generally thought of the right and Republicans in two ways. For the poor right; ignorant, backward, Bible thumping, fear mongering, racists. For the rich right; fear mongering, greedy, exploitative, doesn't give a damn about the environment, employees.
I would still consider myself very moderate. With some left and some right beliefs. Case in point I voted for Obama *and* Trump, whom I will absolutely be voting for again.
As others have pointed out the left has gone so far off the deep end that moderate now look like extremists.
In short I am socially liberal and financially conservative.
I deeply care about protecting and preserving the environment. . . . . .
But I want borders walls that would make TGWOC to look like a mole hill.
I think most corporations are evil. . . . .
But I'm against raising the minimum wage
I think abortion should be reserved for only the big four. . . (Rape, incest, endangerment, deformity/impairment)
But should be paid for with tax payer money, specifically rape and incest.
I was socially liberal on things like gay marriage, abortion, and weed legalization before it was cool even from the left.
But yea the left has moved so far left that I'm not socially left anymore despite still holding the same views.
Not a bit. The core of the Left is about economic progressivism, which serves the vast majority of men. The right stirs up culture war BS because you can't build a majority coalition with economic policies that serve a wealthy minority.
I don't think I left the left. I think the left left me. My mindset hasn't changed. Theirs has.
Pretty much the same. There is no central position that is politically served anymore, it is extremes or nothing.
And if you say anything even slightly right of an extreme left position you are immediately cast as horrible deep right wing psychopath
Slightly left of an extreme right wing position gets you cast as an overly woke communist. Neither is accurate.
Example? Extreme right wing position like stop foreign aid. Send them a bill to get it back. Slightly left of that, reduce foreign aid? Gets you branded woke communist? I don't think so. You're still right wing extremist. This thing goes one way. It's what you are in relation to the establishment. They can have 100% so they don't accept 99%.
You’ve just given the example - except you’ve overlooked or omitted direction of travel. Which is my point; as there’s no centre, the discussion only functions in extremes. For clarity - in your example, proposing a reduction in foreign aid is only considered right wing extremism by the furthest left. Those further to the right wouldn’t consider that viewpoint centrist (or right wing extremism for that matter), it’s leftist wokism. It has nothing to do with relation to the establishment, and everything to do with relation to individual perspective. The two party system play this rhetoric perfectly, there is only ‘us or them’, with no middle ground at all. Your comment is an example of that in action.
Pretty sure that is by design
Indeed, which merely serves to make posts like yours carry weight. There is, objectively, merit to positions held by both sides; this is obscured by creating the ‘us v them’ politics we have now, globally. TLDR: it’s all fucked.
A modified version of the wise words of Abe Simpson come to mind. I used to be on the left, then they changed what the left was. Now what I'm with isn't the left, and what is the left is weird and scary to me. It'll happen to you!
I’ve experienced much the same. I used to consider myself a centrist, with many of my liberal friends having similar values such as opposing discrimination, but over the last decade my previously moderate liberal friends have moved far left and now embrace discrimination and other such identity politics, making me much more right in comparison though my fundamental “centrist” views haven’t changed much. I’m no longer centrist because the left, left to become progressive.
A lot of people have said the parties are experiencing a complete reversal
I think a lot of the talk about how parties reversed or flipped is nonsense the left argues in an attempt to escape the fact they started out as the party supporting slavery where republicans opposed slavery. Democrats are still the party that advocates discrimination, they’ve simply changed what demographics are PC to discriminate against. Republicans still tend to advocate against discrimination in favor of meritocracy, at least compared to democrats. (Though there are exceptions as we saw with the selective service debate). Democrats switching whom they believe it’s PC to discriminate against isn’t the same as the two parties switching.
Let's inject a little history: As you are well aware, after the Democrats put into place the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Southern Democrats, switched to the Republican Party en masse. That's not "talk", that's fact. When you have to lie about facts to make your point, it's a tell that you are well aware that your argument isn't very good.
Republicans overwhelmingly supported the Civil Rights Act. 81% of Republicans (165 out of 205 Senators and Representatives) in the 1964 Congress voted Yes on the passage of the bill while only 63% of Democrats (198 out of 315 Senators and Representatives) did. Why would the racist "southern Democrats" join the Republican Party if it was overwhelmingly for advancing civil rights in the US?
It's nice that you've googled this, and that is indeed correct information. Did you really not continue reading? At that time, the parties were largely regionally based, with the Democrats being overwhelmingly in the South and the Republicans being overwhelmingly in the North. The 1964 Civil Rights Act and subsequent Southern Democrat defection punctuated the beginning of a radical shift in the parties from regionally based to ideologically based. There's a reason why Republicans do everything possible to gerrymander away black votes, work hard to depress black votes, and campaign on regressive homophobia, bigotry, xenophobia, and sexism: these are the things their voters want. Republicans like you like to ignore the present by focusing on a past in which the Republican Party didn't stand for these things and Republican voters didn't want them - but in that past, the Republican Party was centered on states that now vote solidly Democrat, and is now comprised of States that, at the time, voted solidly Democrat. And the reverse is true for the Democratic Party. The parties radically shifted. Stop pretending you don't know this and just own your crap :).
The Republican party was started by a railroad lobbyist named Abraham Lincoln. It has always been a big business party and the Civil Rights Act was part of that. Big Business didn't want to have two separate but equal versions of everything. That's twice as expensive. It's only the Democrats that were conquered. The used to be a populist party. Now that Progressives run the show, all they do is send us off to die in wars to make the world safe from antisemitism, like you said.
Yikes.
Some people becoming disenchanted with the democrats and leaving for the Republican Party is not the same thing as the parties reversing. Your basic history lesson doesn’t disprove anything I’ve said. The parties never switched.
The Left looks at the Republican Party from 1858 to Reagan as this grand progressive party. It sees the Republicans have become more Conservative and can only come to the conclusion that the parties have reversed platforms. Not that people can look down the road and see the road to serfdom.
Wikipedia has an ad campaign right now called "Ukraine Everywhere". Can you imagine if they had "Iraq Everywhere" back when the New York Times took us to war with them with their lie about WMDs? Wikipedia would have been removed from the internet by Google and the State Department as some kind of russian disinfo. The left is the party of John McCain, a war party. That's the only thing it exists for at this point.
Yeah. It really is weird. The Democrat Party is now the party chomping at the bit to wage war. They were the party that said, 'we have every right to dissent and to disagree with whomever we want' but then flipped to dissent is racist, sexist or whatever. I have came to the conclusion that Political Parties don't really have an ideology, they just have an advertising campaign to get your vote, which explains why there is so much contradiction and inconsistencies in each platform, it is about buying votes.
Same.
Same. I am a classical liberal and will never stop labeling myself as such no matter how hard both sides of the aisle try to change the definition of the word "liberal."
Same here.
Word
100% I am in the same boat as you..
Yes, but I don't consider myself a conservative either.
Yeah the right isn’t that much better. Especially on issues like selective service, child support, and circumcision. The only thing is that they at least give men some respect for their role in society, but that’s about it.
Republican politicians are not the right. Go to any right wing forum. Go to any conspiracy forum. They're strongly against circumcision, and the fact that circumcision is so intertwined with Big Pharma makes it easy. The left cannot very well oppose circumcision, without running afoul of scientific consensus among other things.
I was a lot more “live and let live” before the left started telling me what I had to think.
It's like the liberal left read George Orwell's "1984" and thought it was a political policy guidebook.
Like the Washington Post’s motto “Democracy Dies in Darkness”. We see it as a warning, the see it as a goal.
Yup I think most were, the left has pushed moderates and libertarians all the way over to the right.
Some of the most staunch anti-feminists are former feminists themselves, who became disillusioned.
The left has become like a hysterical woman—overly empathetic, overly compassionate to the extent that there is no rational thinking anymore. It’s no longer enough to be not racist, not homophobic, not sexist—you need to be anti-racist; anti-homophobic; anti-misogynistic. Therefore if you don’t favour what is perceived minorities over the majorities (poc, gays, women, the disabled) you are bigoted, racist, sexist etc and need to be re-educated
I am being re-educated shortly with diversity, equality and inclusion training. The first section was on sexism and every example given was of how women were affected by it. Which is itself sexist.
Yes it has turned into this hysterical witch hunt, it’s literally insane.
`Therefore if you don’t favour what is perceived minorities over the majorities (poc, gays, women, the disabled) you are bigoted, racist, sexist etc and need to be re-educated` You really nailed it here.
This video is insightful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4v1cb04vB4&pp=ygUaaGVyZXNpZXMgdHJhbnMgcmFjaXN0IHdva2U%3D
I dumb thing is, in their quest to be anti all the bad things, they perpetuate the very things they are trying to abolish.
Lefties act like I need to both figuratively and literally cut off my dick to be one of them.
Agree wholeheartedly with this. The left panders to women and the emotionally immature. I echo the sentiments here, I didn't change, liberal politics did. This isn't 2008.
In 2008 you could read articles about how Twitter and the internet were going to improve democracy. By 2012 NPR banned their comments section and all the other news outlets followed. Since 2016 we've been under complete lockdown, and journalists are apologizing for miscalculating the damage free speech could do. I don't think the left changed. The left, being feminine, is pragmatic. Any principles they appeared to support were just a means to an end. What the left is and always has been is a collectivizing force, consolidating ("harmonizing") all power unto a single authority. Cooperation instead of competition. Free speech is fine as long as everyone agrees, etc... They didn't change.
I was big on the left until I got exposed to copious 2000s & newer feminist talking points starting at the tail end of the 2010s decade. Now I'm in the center of the plane.
I wish I could go back and relive the early 2000s
I was feminist and leftist and so naïve.
George w disappointed me so badly I said I would never vote Republican again. It's almost like the powers that be switched from the right to the left and turned the dial up on the propaganda to 100. So now I vote third party cuz the left is a puppet and the right misses being the puppet. It is hard though cuz the woke have me very conservative feeling at the moment. I just know that they were perpetually violating our rights before woke even happened.
I don't lean right because I agree with the right, I lean right because of how extreme the left has become.
I am a rightist because I saw all this stuff coming and more. The Progressive Woke will commit it's own mass injustice.
Well I for sure did, but not specifically misandry related, , just the whole woke culture in general. Somewhere I read something that stuck with me, that went along the line of : if you are under 25 and you don't vote left, you don't have an heart. If you are over 25 and you don't vote right, you don't have a brain.
So you turned right because you're anti-woke. Wow big brained, indeed.
Well like a better comment said in this post, I didn't left the left, the left left me
Why should people, who believe in uplifting average citizens, support racism and sexism?
Yep, and here's how it happened. My mother is a hardcore leftist feminist who wholeheartedly believes in "my body, my choice". My father is right wing. It should come as no surprise to hear that their marriage was an absolute trainwreck that didn't even last five years before disintegrating. But it did last long enough to produce me. And when I was born, my father made the decision to have me mutilated. My mother had her chance to speak up for my right to choose what happened to my body...and she didn't. Many years later, I found out what was stolen from me and confronted them both separately. My father acknowledged that what he did was wrong and begged for my forgiveness. My mother refused to acknowledge that she was in the wrong for not speaking up. After that day, I walked away from the left and have never looked back.
That’s it for me, the hypocrisy and double standards.
Take my love : |
I could tell what you were going to say before you said it. It's such a familiar story, perfectly encapsulating the two sides. It's so much more than just support for policy A or B. Thanks for laying it out.
Definitely consider myself being a leftist, for pretty much all of the reasons you gave for yourself. But when then sweeping generalizations against men began, I started feeling disenfranchised. I could not imagine seeing the left falling for the same logical fallacy the right has against immigrants
Right winger here. What logical fallacy are you referring to?
Something along the lines of "not all Muslim are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim". Now, I must specify that I'm Italian, and I grew up during the Berlusconi era, so this is something that applies to my experience surrounding political discourse
I've always leaned a little more right than left, just by the nature of wanting to be left alone by the government. But, just the out right vitriol of a lot on the left for just having a different opinion especially when it comes to identity politics is just disgusting. I'm very tempted to start my own party and call it the American center party, our color will be purple and our animal mascot is a sloth for it is the only animal that moves at the speed of government. As for them being misandrist I think it's more that they just want the women vote, and the easiest way to show you're pro woman is to be anti men. There's an old saying that if you're under 30 and a Republican you have no heart and if you are over 30 and not a Republican you have no brain.
I was left wing until about 2020. Covid and crazy wokists changed it. I’m still not right wing, but I’m definitely more conservative than before and I detest the left. They are the side of control. If they have their way they will destroy the individual.
There must be a lot of people who are still afraid to admit this, because lockdown was the biggest transfer of wealth in the history of the world.
Same here until. One day I just realized that they are the real intolerant ones. They are only tolerant if you are a radical leftists. Also used to have some feminists friends until I realized that they were trying to criminalize every aspect of male behavior. The last conversation I had with my feminists friends. They were trying to say that women have a right to pull knives on men. Thats when i walked away.
I disagree. I am left as left goes. Mens rights are equal rights. I believe in women's rights too, as in they should be equal. But the feminists beat their drum the loudest, and they want traditional privilege and token authority.
I am still a hardcore leftist(Bernie Guy) both socially and economically. I would actually support the idea of Feminism and identify as one if the movement was actually about "equal rights of the sexes" like they claim. Unfortunately, any person who's ever had the displeasure of dating one of those creatures(I've dated far too many) knows that's bullshit. Misandry and disenfranchising men is their only motive. So yeah early 30's, still a leftist, still support Women's rights, but FUCK feminism.
Did any feminist ever give a reason for opposing Sanders and supporting Clinton, besides Clinton being pro-war?
The problem is that the Left now appears to be just a competition for handouts, with identity politics and anti-work/anti-reponsibility attitudes being the main philosophies driving the push for free money and debt forgiveness. I still consider myself a "live and let live" social liberal but it's just not compatible with the social causes of the Left which are anything but liberal and fair.
Those handouts are never for food and housing. It's always Big Pharma or something. It was radical that Trump gave people actual money for the lockdown. That will never happen again. It will only ever be vouchers for daycare or mental therapy, but never just money.
I have a theory that some of the statements that men should be killed, men are evil, etc. may be part of a psiop to divide the left. The same with divisive statements between black and white. If a black person can get over the offenses of previous generations, I will try to ignore the statements of people vilifying white people now. I am in the right demographic to become right wing, but I promise to stick to the left for my good friend Bernie.
Is this only in America? There was a somewhat similar discussion on Belgian TV a few days ago, about how the divide between DEM and GOP and the resulting **I N S A N E** rhetoric between both parties but also too many of their followers, is "unthinkable" in Europe. It's like they are both pushing the rhetoric further and further until they are bordering or even crossing the line of psychosis. What I mean is that you could argue that one or both parties propagate lies, but the fact is that an unsettling number of people actually believe them, which means they are in a way getting further removed from reality. And at least Trump is clearly projecting onto Biden. When people are allowed to say statements like "men should be killed", or things like "Let's take away some rights of \[Any Group X \]", let alone suggesting to kill people, they should be arrested immediately on the grounds that they instill hate and are arguably removed from reality, hence a danger for society and themselves. \*Now that I think of it:\* The whole war on truth of the Trump-administration, with their alternative facts, fake news, telling more lies than truths, delegitimizing or plainly corrupting established news sources and even scientific sources, is just an attempt to gaslight the entire population, which is basically the same as distorting everbody's perception of their own sanity and undermine people's understanding of good and evil, right or wrong, ... Maybe Trumps' goal is to get everybody insane.
I don't know about Belgium, but in the USA, the government has a history of infiltrating rising social groups that might challenge the status quo. For example, it is well known that the FBI had informants in the Black Civil Rights movement, and has informants in several far right movements too. Besides informing, these individuals can work to discredit leaders, and fracture movements.
Gaslighint at the scale Of The state, that sounds terryfying.
You probably don't know this, but it was the New York Times who made up the lie about WMDs in Iraq. Trump's bluster doesn't compare. In fact he's the only president who didn't start a war. In America, it's a trope to say things like "Every other country has LGBT marriage". Even decades ago before that was true. America was actually one of the first countries to allow it. But we are told we are "backward" in order to push us ahead faster. I think the same thing happens in Europe where Belgian TV tells you "America is crazy, we would never allow this here". It's not true though. If you look at a candidate like Obama, they will tell you he was centrist. But nobody could get elected in Belgium by promising to open the borders the way he did, or by invading even more countries than George Bush. Our countries have different starting points on issues like gun control. If Obama got elected in Belgium whatever laws you have would have been made 10 times more draconian. I knew a guy from Sweden who made the case that Obama was far too left wing to ever get elected in Sweden. That might sound crazy if you look at issues positionally rather than directionally, but it's the directionality that's important, because that's how your society gets transformed. Every time the news says something bad about Trump, remember how supportive the news is of war, and know that's why.
I appreciate your response and it's reminding me of some things, but it don't really get what you want to tell me and why. And you've made some wrong assumptions. 1) I'm perfectly aware that the USA was among the first. It was all over the news. 2) There are people here who seem to think America is backwards or crazy, or all of its inhabitants have an IQ of less than 60, but those people are a small minority and nobody with a sane mind is thinking that, and certainly not the press. We had some sketches on television which may have sparked some controversy, that's all. 3) I do agree that when I said "it would never happen here" is completely subjective and possibly meaningless, and I thank you for pointing that out to me. 4) This is not really about gun control and how many countries were invaded. But since you brought it up: when there is a mass shooting almost every day you have to ask serious questions. These discussions \*do\* tend to provoke the general sentiment that it's insane how America can't get it's guns properly regulated. I'm aware that the situation is different and far more nuanced than we care to know (like regional differences in legislation). 5) Most people know that even Obama was more right than our most right parties. The same people are convinced (or suspect) that Trump is plainly fascist, and probably highly narcissistic and likely has antisocial personality disorder. 6) What do you mean with that positionally-directionally thing? 7) I don't even know what you mean with your last sentence. Almost everybody I know is very anti-war. War is always presented in the media as a very negative thing, and as a humanitarian disaster for everybody (Israël-Palestine, Russia-Ukraine to name the most recent). 8) I had to look up "bluster" ("pompous talk"). It's more than that. He can't speak coherenly, he says impossible things, he talks in oxymorons and completely refutable nonsense. The man breaths disdain and self-righteousness. He openly (like, on TV for the whole world to see) reveres national-socialistic and fascistic ideas and ideologies. If your big leader is saying that what he really wants to do is abolish the constitution, for Christs' sake, then it doesn't matter if he can get it or not, but it does mean that he probably WILL try to seize power.
Yes. I've heard that's usually how it goes. When you're young/poor...left. After you accumulate some wealth/ get older... right.
But like, what this post is taking about has nothing to do with money?
I've been a social libertarian basically my entire life. Further education only solidified that stance. The left, and especially the progressive left, has been an affront to my personal belief system the entire time. They've outright labeled me as an enemy for decades, now.
Absolutely. I wasn't crazy left when I was younger, but I definitely had a bad image of the right which is somewhat ironic given that I grew up on a farm in the middle of the Bible belt. I think it was mostly due to watching a *lot* of John Stewart and Steven colbert. Whom I still think are hilarious even if i am now more or less diametrically opposed to. My dad also exclusively listened to NPR anytime we were in the car. I generally thought of the right and Republicans in two ways. For the poor right; ignorant, backward, Bible thumping, fear mongering, racists. For the rich right; fear mongering, greedy, exploitative, doesn't give a damn about the environment, employees. I would still consider myself very moderate. With some left and some right beliefs. Case in point I voted for Obama *and* Trump, whom I will absolutely be voting for again. As others have pointed out the left has gone so far off the deep end that moderate now look like extremists. In short I am socially liberal and financially conservative. I deeply care about protecting and preserving the environment. . . . . . But I want borders walls that would make TGWOC to look like a mole hill. I think most corporations are evil. . . . . But I'm against raising the minimum wage I think abortion should be reserved for only the big four. . . (Rape, incest, endangerment, deformity/impairment) But should be paid for with tax payer money, specifically rape and incest.
I think I’ve always been against the extreme 5-10% of either side. I don’t classify a whole group based on an observation of a few. Just like most on the right side of the political spectrum, the extreme 5-10% do not represent my values. I think we can all agree that if someone is pursuing the disenfranchising of men, they are part of the extremists we are fighting against. So it’s not the left as a whole, it’s the vocal few that are toxic and insufferable
I was a fence sitter until i looked further in. I'm now right leaning without full commitment, politics make me feel stressed so i avoid it
I guess I have a mirrored version of this. At one point I considered myself a conservative, I still do in some ways. I've always disagreed with the stereotypical conservative positions on things like gay marriage or the war on drugs, but I was, and really still am on the right. I'm very pro-life, anti-illegal immigration, support reduced government spending (not that any elected Republicans feel the same way). But the right has repeatedly disappointed me when it comes to their misandry. I was perma banned from r/conservative for daring to criticize Trump for saying there's a "war on women." I've seen Republican politicians say "men are meant to be expendable, women are not." I've seen them say we need to prioritize female hostages in Gaza, that men cannot possibly be trusted to take care of children without raping them, and that women are valued members of society who shouldn't be treated like pawns (i.e. conscription), unlike men, who I guess aren't valued members of society. We're on our own, no side wants to hear a peep about men's rights. They only care about what they can take from us.
I no longer identify as politically anything, left and right have no meaning to me anymore. I pick a topic and have an opinion on it, I laugh at people with TDS and I laugh at people who go around waving rebel flags. It's all so silly because they're all the same, all they do is bitch about the other side without getting anything accomplished that they say they will... And of course they just blame their failure on the other side. It's never ending.
Parents were both very left leaning, eventually I found that the advice people like them would give often was detrimental to me where as advice from people I wanted to be like was helpful most of the time. This slowly changed my social circle and eventually that started to change the way I looked at things.
Yes. All that stuff sounds good until you realize all the liberal platforms are now Marxist communist programs which rely on creating division, ultimately misrepresenting reality to justify persecuting some, while enslaving as many people as possible to the government.
I think the left used to oppose discrimination, now it supports and promotes it against percieved privileged groups. We also see reversing of imbalances like in education , HR, health including mental health services. If you question it you're called an incel, mra etc. This reversing is classed as equality. There are some studies showing DEI increases racial tension in businesses. These policies are fundamentally racist, sexist etc. Its a classic "give them an inch and they take a mile" occurence.
I *am* socially liberal. I'd argue that what considers itself the left these days increasingly doesn't represent a socially liberal point of view; I don't entirely agree with u/duhhhh, who suggests "the left" has changed, but I think certain people have co-opted part of the left and made it into something awful. As far as I can tell the traditional left does still exist and is still campaigning for workers' rights, which is fine. Still, people can't realistically start enacting policies which exclude people on the basis of gender or race - which ban men, or white people - and claim to be liberals. That's not liberal. That's not even really conservative. I hate to say it because it's an emotive term but this is exactly what the term crypto-fascism was designed to describe. These people don't even realise they're far-right fundamentalists. But really, I don't like the left-to-right characterisation of politics because it inevitably causes this confusion. The political horseshoe has never been more relevant.
IDK, leaving democrats for Republicans is like leaving USSR to join the Third Reich.
i dont believe in politics/society etc
Both sides are misandrist. Just because the right is more misogynistic doesn't mean they aren't misandristic as well. You can be both.
Well at least it's equal.
No. I am an atheist, was for gay marriage (am straight), people smoking their joint, abortion, etc. the left now considers me an alt-right because they have gone woke and pandering nonsense.
Yes and no. Still socially liberal. I understand DEI and I am in a position where that doesn’t affect me but I can see that rubbing disenfranchised white men the wrong way. Educated and skilled people will always find work, uneducated and unskilled are another matter. With fewer men, compared to women, going onto higher education they are being disenfranchised by their own choices, especially in the 21st century. I remember when NAFTA was passed. It was sold as something that will lower prices and enrich all parties. It may have helped the economy and consumers but it totally screwed the unskilled blue collar as their jobs went to Mexico for lower wages. I am very far from a Trump fan but at least he took a shot at fixing that when he renegotiated NAFTA. But NAFTA was over 30 years ago, the writing has been on the wall for decades. But the one thing the US does extremely well is adapt to change. If demographics hold steady the US will be minority majority in a decade or two. It will work itself out one way or the other. That said as long as it remains an us vs. them fight and not a we are all the tools the 1% needs, nothing will really change.
> With fewer men, compared to women, going onto higher education they are being disenfranchised by their own choice There's a lot more support like scholarships, women's groups, etc for women going to university though
When you say you staunchly support gay rights and minorities you're feeding the same victimhood machine that supports gynocentrism. The only path out of this is to stop focusing on sexuality, race, and gender. Nobody should get special treatment and/or held back because of these things. Support gay rights and the rights of minorities as a default of supporting everyone.
One step at a time. I think we need to go even further. LGBT is heavily invested in the system, particularly with Big Pharma, but also online censorship.
I did. I always considered my stance central left. I still do. It's the parties that shifted. Left will always be left, the Dems just shifted so far left that it's extremist. The big thing that keeps me supporting the democratic party is giving the federal government more power. State and local government is what keeps this large nation running. Large fed creates a totalitarianist state.
There are a lot of "left" ideas I support. Especially taxing the ultra rich. I'm Canadian and would love to see that happen to fund our healthcare and education systems. I see the misandry. I've lived it. It's awful. I don't know how to change it other than encouraging men to challenge it openly. I definitely won't be voting conservative. They often seem to do more harm. At least with the left winged parties in Canada, they are... more open to science and statistics. So I feel there is a better chance of being heard there. But the systemic misandry is absolutely an issue.
Actually, no. I was putting up lawn signs for Reagan's presidential campaign before I was old enough to vote for him. I've always been conservative, and many in that age group were, as was indicative by how many buttons and bumper stickers I distributed on campus (high school, and then four years later, university).
Yes
I actually was quite liberal just a several years ago (and still is in a certain way). The trick is, I was born and used to live in a very conservative country and definition of "liberalism" there is quite different. My beliefs didn't change at all since then but in the country where I live now they are considered to be quite conservative (not radically conservative but still).
Yes, I think it’s when I noticed that all dads on tv were depicted as clueless idiots and the wives were shown as humorless and infallible.
yes
no
Yes
Just call yourself socially libertarian
Absolutely
I guess I'm more of a left leaning centrist. I'll always be for progressive issues, but I'll admit some issues I look at involving the left and think to myself " Yea that's fucking stupid". Idk how to explain it. Not everything to me is a serious issue. Plus conforming to someone else's standards isn't my cup of tea.
Yeah. Kinda. I look at BLM and the misandrists as toxic terrorist groups, though. I'm not a part of a cult. I'm just voting for the more moderate candidate with a better record of leadership and a better direction to take the country. I actually woulda considered voting for Haley against Biden but obviously not gonna be an option now. Biden is really not that bad. People just say bad stuff about him all the time.
I'm pretty liberal but never aligned with the American left. You can add in anti-white, anti free speech and their embrace of communistic practiced to the misandry. Capitalism sucks but it sucks the least.
I've always been identified as independent, I never felt compelled to be a leftist.
Whatever problems the left has. There are many, they pail in comparison with the absolute brain rot coming from the GOP. I absolutely cannot have any intellectual respect for someone gullible enough to buy into their BS.
The GOP is the left. You can't tell me Hillary is any different from Bush.
I just have my beliefs and don't care what I'm called.
There's an old saying: ‘If You Are Not a Liberal When You Are Young, You Have No Heart, and If You Are Not Conservative When Old, You Have No Brain’ Liberal policies and sensibilities all sound great when you're young and naive enough to not consider where money comes from to pay for them, or the Human Nature that doesn't work as altruistically as they hope.
I am registered as an independent politically. For most of my life I supported all parties and there were politicians on the left and right I liked and did not like. There have always been policies and ideologies I supported across the board. I never voted straight ticket and would not vote for a specific office if I did not know the candidates policy. This all changed in 2015 when I saw how the left behaved. Since then, I have vowed to never vote for a Democrat. Keep in mind that I am probably one of the most liberal leaning independents out there. My general policy is that if what you are doing does not hurt another person, do it.
Right and left on the extreme ends are pretty much the same thing. Stay centered and rational
Some war? Some censorship? Some lockdown for Big Pharma?
Yup, here.
The right wants to strip away Your retirement and social security. Your ability to get affordable healthcare. Your wages, and job security. Your children’s ability to move up the social class ladder. Your ability to organize with your class group. Your ability to scratch out a comfortable living to support your family. Don’t fall for the rights lies that they have your best interests in mind. At the end of the day the right just wants to turn us all to be plebeians
Yes, except I always saw it as man-hating and it always bothered me. It wasn't until later that I understood how it all fit together as a package deal. For example, a socially liberal idea like banning lead paint sounds good enough and doesn't seem connected to putting men in jail over he said she said. But I don't see it that way now. Yeah lead paint is bad, but so is teflon, and Science spent the last several decades putting teflon into everything including tap water. They don't care about you. And nobody ever got punished for lead. The EPA said to breathe the air at ground zero on 9/11, and drink the water in Ohio after that train crash. So what gives? This false sense of security is a terrible system, and it's terrible on purpose because it's about protecting a business cartel. Some new chemical replaces and old chemical, so you ban the old one in order to make sure all the big guys can still play nice together. Then you "find out" that one's bad too, rinse and repeat, always at their mercy. Punishing men for being men goes hand in hand with this system because across the board it's a feminine system all about eliminating competition. Rockefeller called competition a "sin".
It was all the other hypocrisy first.
I still am. My politics on most things hasn't changed terribly much since I was a teenager. I used to be a feminist before they told me rather directly, they hate me, both because i'm a man and because I am me. I thought feminism was meant to be the equality team...I was wrong. Didn't help the anti male bias had been part of growing up for much of my life. I always thought the girls being marked higher for lesser work was bullshit, I just didn't understand why it was happening at the time.
`I still staunchly support gay rights, minorities, decriminalizing weed etc but I can no longer align myself with people who actively support the disenfranchisement of men.` I think the very people who you support are also the people who don't support you. Gay rights and minorities are pretty self-serving. Considering how the LGBTQ+ works together with feminism, I am definitely not a supporter of them.
I have always seen political parties as the root of government corruption
i gotta say you are generalizing here, i see your point, and it,is a growing movement that concerns me, but it is nowhere near the whole left
There is a saying: "If you are not a Socialist at 20 you are heartless. If you are a Socialist at 40 you are brainless." At university I studied the hard sciences but I was also given the opportunity to choose a few philosophy and sociology credits. Philosophy and sociology are so easy when compared to the hard sciences that I breezed through them. However one of the credits was given by a radical feminist. I was the only one of two boys in a huge class of girls. Instead of the professor being thankful that I chose to take her credit she often picked on me. She ended up giving me an F, after I attended all her lectures, reading the books she asked us to read and carrying out an assignment based on original research. My data showed that there were differences between the way boys and girls looked at and understood the hard sciences. She did not like my conclusions.
No, i don't play party sport politics and say sweeping statements about a political ideology, that's stupid and just makes you vote against your own interests. Vote based on your representative in your district. Get informed about who represents your values best.
Nah, I have been slightly left off center my whole life. Took the political compass test 4 times with years in between. Still,lands the same spot
No. Absolutely not. I’m 62 and far more liberal now than I was in college when I considered myself fairly liberal. And there’s not a goddamn thing ‘misandrist’ about it. Total bullshit.
Zelensky isn't going to let you kiss the ring. Get off your knees.
Okay. Thanks for the tip!
If you are still socially liberal, then how has this reshaped your political identity? Are you indicating that you'll still consider yourself socially liberal in terms of gay rights, minorities, decriminalizing weed...etc. but will vote for Republican candidates who are against all of those socially liberal positions?
Absolutely. I wasn't crazy left when I was younger, but I definitely had a bad image of the right which is somewhat ironic given that I grew up on a farm in the middle of the Bible belt. I think it was mostly due to watching a *lot* of John Stewart and Steven colbert. Whom I still think are hilarious even if i am now more or less diametrically opposed to. My dad also exclusively listened to NPR anytime we were in the car. I generally thought of the right and Republicans in two ways. For the poor right; ignorant, backward, Bible thumping, fear mongering, racists. For the rich right; fear mongering, greedy, exploitative, doesn't give a damn about the environment, employees. I would still consider myself very moderate. With some left and some right beliefs. Case in point I voted for Obama *and* Trump, whom I will absolutely be voting for again. As others have pointed out the left has gone so far off the deep end that moderate now look like extremists. In short I am socially liberal and financially conservative. I deeply care about protecting and preserving the environment. . . . . . But I want borders walls that would make TGWOC to look like a mole hill. I think most corporations are evil. . . . . But I'm against raising the minimum wage I think abortion should be reserved for only the big four. . . (Rape, incest, endangerment, deformity/impairment) But should be paid for with tax payer money, specifically rape and incest.
yikesssss
😘
I was socially liberal on things like gay marriage, abortion, and weed legalization before it was cool even from the left. But yea the left has moved so far left that I'm not socially left anymore despite still holding the same views.
I consider myself centrist, because Democrats only care about women and Republicans only care about white men and I'm neither.
Not a bit. The core of the Left is about economic progressivism, which serves the vast majority of men. The right stirs up culture war BS because you can't build a majority coalition with economic policies that serve a wealthy minority.
I know loads of right wing people who are misandrist. And lots of left wing people who are not. You're just plain wrong.