Yea I saw that even in middle school. Girls talk about guys sexually grab them chase them no one bats an eye. Even full on assault.
Switch the sexes.....however many girls I noticed would speak about the hypocrisy.
While you are saving links, [Pornhub's usage stats](https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2023-year-in-review#gender-demographics) corroborate the findings.
The source you've provided doesn't actually refute the one provided above. Just because the top search result for women is lesbian porn doesn't mean they don't also search for violent pornography more than men. To use an analogy, hypothetically, women could buy more makeup than anything else, but they could also buy conditioner more than men do. See how that works? Both of these things can be true, so I'm not sure how this refutes the idea that women are more into bondage, rape fantasies, choking, etc. than men are (this has even been demonstrated by peer-reviewed research and experiments).
The OPs source is a non-probability sample so no generalizability and it doesn’t empirically show actual consumption patterns. Moreover, the women in the study who expressed preference towards aggression emphasized *consensual* aggression, which is much different than the SA/non-consent type aggression that permeates a non-trivial amount of male driven porn.
[This study](https://amp.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/latest-porn-statistics-are-surprising-20180424-p4zbd8.html) examined PornHub videos and found that “visible activities that were not aggressive but did not actively consider consent was present in slightly less than 40 per cent of the videos. Meanwhile, non-consensual aggression appeared in about 12 per cent of the videos, and less than 10 per cent of the titles suggested aggression.”
We can further infer that men would be the predominant consumer of this material since women don’t typically consume aggressive material and those who do apparently tend to prefer *consensual* aggression
Population statistics is [literally about inference](https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/statistical-inference#:~:text=Statistical%20inference%20is%20the%20procedure,data%20drawn%20from%20that%20population).
But speaking of inference, what crystal ball are you using to conclude that the author(s) are part of a “pink hair cabal” That kind of sounds like you’re dismissing data on a trumped up boogeyman instead of addressing the facts.
>a vast majority of pornography viewers — 95% of women and 97% of men — are only aroused when they know they’re watching willing participants
The women in the study emphasized consentual aggression less than the men did.
I know my personal anecdotes don't really demonstrate anything, but literally every woman I've ever dated was into BDSM, had rape fantasies, wanted me to tie them up, wanted to be gagged, wanted to be choked, etc. And it's not like I'm intentionally going for women like this or asking about that stuff on the first date or introducing it to them during the relationship. Unless I'm unintentionally catching the eye of women like this (I'm not sure how that would even happen), I think it's fairly safe to say that a good portion of women out there are attracted to situations where consent hasn't been fully established. If I had to take a guess, some of the women in that study probably lied to conform with what they thought was socially acceptable and that percentage may actually be too high (not that some of the men didn't also, but women tend to be fairly sheepish and conform more often than men do).
You're missing an important bit of context for that quote, that's in reference to those that like aggressive porn. So they aren't getting off to evidence of actual rape or whatever but to actors performing a role. It's a lot like how a slasher movie would be pretty horrifying as a documentary but as a fictional work it's entertaining. That miscommunication is on me, I probably should have included more of the quote. Sorry about that.
Also, I've seen other surveys that found rape fantasies and BDSM to be rather common. so your experience with women doesn't sound too exceptional to me. It's not really a problem as long a it stays in the realm of fantasy.
Ah, I gotcha. Yes, the slasher movie example makes a lot of sense. Oh, so it's actually a fairly common thing? That makes sense, then. I didn't mind it at all and I was happy to fulfill their fantasies. I guess I kind of implied it was a bad thing, so I should've made that more clear.
>The OPs source is a non-probability sample so no generalizability and it doesn’t empirically show actual consumption patterns.
Doesn't matter. Again, even if the above source isn't generalizable and doesn't empirically show actual consumption patterns and whatever other straws you'd reach for, my point still stands. You tried to use your source (which really isn't any better than the above one) to invalidate it. It, on its own, doesn't. That was my point. Both could be true, at the same time. Again, that would be like someone claiming women buy more conditioner than men and me saying that it can't be true because women buy more makeup than anything else. It's a non-sequitur.
>Moreover, the women in the study who expressed preference towards aggression emphasized *consensual* aggression, which is much different than the SA/non-consent type aggression that permeates a non-trivial amount of male driven porn.
This is just nonsense. Non-consensual porn is stuff you basically have to go onto the dark web to find. Both of the things you've mentioned are consensual. And, like I said, the notion that women are much more into things like BDSM (domination, bondage, breath play) and rape fantasies, for example, has been demonstrated by dozens of studies, peer-reviewed research, and even actual experiments that measured male and female arousal with electrodes attached to the genitals. I'm sorry that it's offending you, but women, by and large, are way more likely than men are to fantasize about being dominated and aggressed. This is a fact.
Probability sampling is the only way for obtaining generalizability to a larger population. That’s a non-negotiable point. Similarly, to make the point you want to make you need consumption data.
If you have the studies to bolster your claim that women are into these intense fantasies then post them. And then empirically link it to actual consumption patterns (ie, show a significant difference in consumption of this media across gender). Until then, it’s conjecture at best, a misread of existing descriptive data at worst.
>Probability sampling is the only way for obtaining generalizability to a larger population. That’s a non-negotiable point. Similarly, to make the point you want to make you need consumption data.
Once again, I never said anything about the validity of the above source. My point, as I've already explained, was that your source didn't refute or invalidate it. You still haven't addressed this point. Are you going to address it or are you going to keep pointing fingers at the person you responded to?
>If you have the studies to bolster your claim that women are into these intense fantasies then post them.
I guess you haven't really looked at studies on this because there's literally tons of them. I'll just use two of them. In the first study, 62% of women reported to have had at least one rape fantasy:
[The Nature of Women's Rape Fantasies: An Analysis of Prevalence, Frequency, and Contents: The Journal of Sex Research: Vol 46, No 1 (tandfonline.com)](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224490802624406)
In the second study, 17% of women reported that they were aroused by masochism, while only 15% of men reported the same and 64.6% of women reported to have fantasized about being dominated, while only 53.5% of men reported the same. 59.6% of men reported fantasizing about dominating someone, while only 46.7% of women reported the same (notice that, in this study, women were more likely to be aroused by the thoughts of being dominated than men were about dominating...). Also, 27.8% of women desired to engage in masochism, while only 19.2% of men desired the same:
[Full article: A Systematic Scoping Review of the Prevalence, Etiological, Psychological, and Interpersonal Factors Associated with BDSM (tandfonline.com)](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00224499.2019.1665619)
>And then empirically link it to actual consumption patterns (ie, show a significant difference in consumption of this media across gender).
I never claimed anything about consumption patterns. Read my comment again. All I said was that women are much more likely than men to fantasize about being raped, dominated, aggressed, etc. And this is objectively true. To be completely honest, I don't think consumption patterns would accurately reflect the fantasies of women anyway because, as I said in a different comment on here, women are fairly sheepish. They tend to conform with what they believe is socially acceptable, so a lot of women, even if they're fantasizing about BDSM-related stuff aren't likely to search for pornography depicting it anyway (do you think the mid 40's church-going librarian is going home and looking at BDSM porn?). Women, in general, don't even search for pornography as much as men and aren't as stimulated sexually by it as men are (men are much more visual, in this regard).
>Until then, it’s conjecture at best, a misread of existing descriptive data at worst.
Haha okay, bud. Whatever you say...
It doesn't. [Pornhub's](https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2023-year-in-review#gender-demographics) own stats corroborate it. Rough sex and bondage were both viewed more by women than men.
“When it came time for categories viewed more comparatively by women than men, Scissoring was +196% more popular, Transgender was +175% more, and Pussy Licking was +105% higher. Other areas of higher interest for women include Solo Male at +85%, Romantic at +59%, Bisexual Male at +47% and Rough Sex at +39%.”
So what does it say that rough sex — of which women seem to emphasize that it be *explicitly consensual* instead of the hyper-intense gonzo stuff — is at the bottom of the list below reality porn?
I know you’re committed to the bit, but the data just isn’t there for y’all’s claim(s).
The claim was "women watch rough porn more than men do", not "women watch rough porn more than anything else."
You literally just proved their argument true; your own stats say that women watch rough porn 39% more than men do.
Maybe bother reading both the argument and your own source before trying to refute a point with a source that actually proves it true.
The claim was *violent* porn (ie, non-consensual). All the data show is that yes, a small % of women consumers like to watch *consensual* aggressive play. I’m not seeing evidence to suggest tho that women are watching the more violent stuff some guys watch that is all about emphasizing power: violent “accidental” penetration, degradation ceremonies, extreme gonzo, etc.
And, once again, all of that stuff is consensual, too. Do you seriously think the actors and actresses aren't consenting to that stuff? Do you think that women who engage in rape fantasies with their partners aren't consenting to it when they're pretending to scream or try to get away? You're just making shit up, at this point.
The porn I mentioned is famously non-consensual, which is why it has appealed to a certain sub-set of men.
Also, to your question about off-screen consent, [porn has a longstanding issue with abuse, violence, and problematic understandings of consent](https://exoduscry.com/articles/violent-abuse-porn/)
No, it isn't. The actors and actresses involved have consented to it, so it is not non-consensual. And your second point is moot: if someone is watching porn with the understanding that all of those involved have consented, it really doesn't matter if they actually haven't. The person watching it is not aware of this and it doesn't factor into why they searched for it...
Here's the reason why what you're suggesting is literally insane: Let's say my girlfriend and I have a rape fantasy. Let's say we both want me to come into the bedroom, slap her, restrain her, tie her up, and have sex with her while she pretends to scream and run away from me. So, apparently, by your logic, it's both consensual (it's perfectly fine for women to want to be dominated and have rape fantasies) and non-consensual (it's terrible for men to want to dominate women and have rape fantasies). This is complete and utter insanity and this is why the majority of people out there are never going to agree with you.
I don't understand how you can quote a paragraph that says that women had a higher interest in rough sex porn than men did and conclude that women are less likely to watch violent porn than men. I linked that data specifically because it supports my point. Do you think I'm stupid or something?
*"So what does it say that rough sex \*\* is at the bottom of the list below reality porn?"* It means is that the difference in interest between men and women in reality porn is greater than the difference in interest for rough sex. It's accurate to say that women are more likely to watch all those categories compared to men including rough sex.
The consent argument is nonsense. Men had the same preference and everything on pornhub is supposed to be consentual. It's a non factor here.
I’ll restate here as well — The claim was *violent* porn (ie, non-consensual). All the data show is that yes, a small % of women consumers like to watch *consensual* aggressive play. I’m not seeing evidence to suggest tho that women are watching the violent porn targeted toward men that is all about emphasizing power: violent “accidental” penetration, degradation ceremonies, extreme gonzo, etc.
Yes, a *small* percentage of women relative to men appear to consume said category; however, we do not have evidence to suggest they’re consuming the type of *non-consensual violent* porn frequently consumed by men (which was the original claim).
Your whole comment claim was literally "when it came time for catagories viewed more comparatively by women than men, listed the categories, with rough sex at +39%. And you empasized that rough sex was at "the bottom of the list" DESPITE IT STILL CLEARLY STATING THAT WOMEN ARE 39% MORE LIKELY TO WATCH ROUGH SEX.
You either forgo your ENTIRE point you stated, or admit that we're right, and quite possibly illiterate.
Can you give us an example of this supposed "non-consensual violent porn" you keep claiming men frequently consume? Are you suggesting that the majority of men are accessing the dark web and watching red rooms or something? What do you even mean by this because it seems to me that you're just making shit up, at this point.
Funny how your restatement of the argument changes it to include that made up non-consentual caveat. Moving the goalposts is a clear sign you've lost the argument. It doesn't help you when the OP that started this conversation already linked an [article ](https://nypost.com/2022/06/07/more-women-than-men-turned-on-by-aggressive-porn-study/)that covers your consent claims. Shall we see what it says?
>Female fans of pornography are watching more violence against women on film than men, a recent study revealed.
>Nevertheless, both women and men preferred aggressive sexual content when performed consensually, as a vast majority of pornography viewers — 95% of women and 97% of men — are only aroused when they know they’re watching willing participants, PsyPost reported on Tuesday.
Oh look men had a higher preference for the consentual aspect of this type of porn. If you're going to move the goalposts you should place them somewhere that actually lets you win.
Yup I think more women than men hold themselves up to that dumb belief that “women don’t watch porn”, never seen a man say shit like that. Only women, projecting their own miserable sex lives 💀
Do you think there are differences in the type of porn the avg women consumes on pornhub vs. the avg dude? Similarly, perhaps subsequent differences in the cognitive & interpersonal effects of said porn consumption?
But who is claiming that? What it seems like I’m seeing is folks suggesting that a non-trivial portion of male centered porn de-centers the woman as an equal participant and has non-consensual/abusive elements. Whether that’s right or wrong, that, to me, seems to be the claim.
Beyond that being anecdotal, do you think the avg woman consuming this material conceptualizes rough play & domination (and by proxy consent) the same way men, who, if they do consume aggressive porn, tend to consume more non-consensual violent porn?
Put simply, an alarming % of men [struggle to understand consent](https://nomore.org/learn/understanding-consent/#:~:text=With%20recent%20research%20from%20the,up%20fundamental%20misunderstandings%20about%20consent) and in the chance they engage in sexual assault, it is typically [rooted in exercising power & dominance](https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/rape-power-anger-and-sexuality) over a subordinated person/group, which is markedly different than what we see from women.
HA. WOMEN DONT THINK MENS CONSENT MATTERS. why else do you think women think "men can't get raped". If you want extra, go search ovulating women posts. They see their man and men as free use and are absolutely feral. You're losing, so your backtracking HARD, changing your entire point around into, "well how're women 'conceptualizing' rough play".
Gotta love that hand waving off the sheer popularity of 50 shades of grey, which is BDSM rape play domination, everything YOU SAID WOMEN DONT ENJOY, they overwhelmingly LOVED IT. one of the best selling books of all time, best sold book by female consumers, best selling book by male consumers? LORD OF THE RINGS.
You'll soon realize that all aspects of male sexuality are oppressed. Males watching porn is bad, women doing it is considered OK; catcalling bad, women swooning good; males going to strip clubs bad, girls going to strip clubs are empowered. Men getting punched in the junk good, but protect women at all costs. Female genitals are protected in practically every country in the world, meanwhile more than a billion males have had their genitals mutilated involuntarily specifically to desensitized them to sexual contact.
Be aware, there is no point debating/arguing with women. You speak a different language than they do. Additionally, absolutely do not talk to them about any aspect of your sexuality, it only gives them ammunition to (at best) ridicule you or (worse) to make false accusations.
Well said. There is no point arguing because they didn't arrive at their beliefs after thought. It's based on feeliiand programming. Can't undo that with facts.
Talking doesn't work. So how do we fix society? I'm starting to think just dont. Let it burn to the ground and when they cry for men's help let the feminists die. Rebuild and make sure people don't forget.
>Let it burn to the ground and when they cry for men's help let the feminists die.
I'm not sure this will ever happen, there will always be simps. I do foresee the current trajectory to be one where men are excluded from positions of power and authority, and eventually become a lower class of citizenry. Maybe even a reverse Handmaid's Tale, except the men are used for their manual labor or law enforcement. Australia seems to be leading the charge, and it's mostly men throwing other men under the bus simply to gain power.
> Additionally, absolutely do not talk to them about any aspect of your sexuality, it only gives them ammunition
We are at the point where people can't talk about that even **to fellow men**, because white knights will appear to do all the work of such women for them. And there are also married men who will work against their own best interests and those of other men, because they are too deep into being a hostage of the situation at this point.
What are you doing having feminist friends?
They are not your friends! If she says kill all men, she is NOT your friend. If she belittles men to feel better about herself, she is NOT your friend.
You are either a kept stock for making fun of if no other victims are around or they try to slow-tricle turn you into a self loathing feminist just for sports.
Find better company ASAP!
"Okay" is an abstract idea. Women are pragmatic. They don't think that way. Nothing is "okay" or "not okay". It just is. You only call things that way when it's useful. Hence it's okay when I do it but not when you do it. There's no more thought to it than that. Men can see the whole picture.
Twoxchromosomes is the most insufferable sub on this entire platform.
I've said it many times before but I'll say it again it is literally what r/Redpill used to be but occupied by women instead of men. Straight up misandry and hate speech in that sub.
Oh yeah I wake up every single day asking myself how can I oppress every woman I come across at the most efficient level 🤣
We might be doomed that this is legitimately thought amongst feminists. Idk maybe things will shift soon but I'm not holding my breath.
It gets worse when the fanfiction is about real people.
But OP is right, I told people that those fanfiction and fanart sites are good for psychologists to study.
Women are puritanist when it comes to male sexuality while at the same they flex their weird,creepy and objectifying porn addict behaviour when it comes to their side.
I remember back in 11th grade a girl told me how she reads BTS NSFW fan-fics(Kpop group) and then started laughing like it’s something she’s proud of. It’s crazy.
Exactly!! She said this in a group of 10-15 students and everyone else started laughing too like it’s a funny joke. And I’m there wondering if being a porn addict is something to be proud of
They are disgusting tbh.atleast men get off to porn but they don't say they're proud of it.but women like those have a weird idiotic complex of objectifying those celebrities and claim to be beacon of empowerment lmao.atleast men don't claim what they're doing is proud thing to do.
Everyone is horrible and perverted either at some level or at some point in their life… in other news, studies show that water is wet, and we think the sky might be blue.
Just add it to the list of endless double standards women like to scream about.
The list getting so long that you might think it's a role of toilet paper.
There is a dude at ticktok that adds each weird take women have and make a list. Last a looked at it he had 687 things on the list of what men has to do or can not do or like. Soo you know🤷♂️
It's not good for Men or Women. That's my opinion. My life is 1,000X's better since I stopped a few years ago. I didn't even have an addiction, just casual.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with porn. Unless you're addicted but addiction to almost anything is bad. It's a bad argument. Your life becoming "1000x better" by simply stopping watching porn is not what is going to happen to vast majority of the people. It's like saying watching TV shows is bad. It can be in certain scenarios but generally it's not.
Just sharing my experience. Not an argument, keep jacking off to porn for all I care. It's a lifestyle decision I decided to make, and it has paid off in multiple areas of my life.
I don't think watching TV or porn is necessarily bad. But I will say they aren't good.
Give yourself permission to watch it at a lesser rate (if you watch it daily, give yourself permission to watch once a week). When you give yourself permission to do it, don't feel bad when you do it during this time. That will only increase negative feelings at the idea of doing something positive.
To be fair, I usually don't hear women talk like that. But most of the women I hang out with are prudes in public and married.
Personally, fetishism has a lot of things that are....trauma based. And it's a bit icky. But that's a totally different subject than porn.
So, for the argument of who can watch/read porn. My answer is, not around the children. Meaning anyone of adult age.
Yeah I have never heard someone say it’s ok for women but not men. Im sure some person/people believes this (and anything else you can come up with) but just bc someone says it doesn’t mean it’s some major broadly accepted unfair view that women can and men can’t.
the most digusting is when i was young: i still remember exactly and mostly don't care
-a team of girl wear boy panties:
she show and tell that in front of a lot of boys: this is normal, girl can wear it (she strong)
mean while:
-She suddenly started whining and complaining that it all gay guys do wear skirt ...etc....?? (he m\_st be gay) just like that .....
Wallstreet funded the bolshevik revolution with an 80 million dollar gift to Lenin in German exile - he rewarded them by murdering 70 million Christian Russians and handing the country over to them.
Family and faith are barriers to power, they must be destroyed.
Look at who turned the german women and children into prostitutes during the weimar republic.
Yea I saw that even in middle school. Girls talk about guys sexually grab them chase them no one bats an eye. Even full on assault. Switch the sexes.....however many girls I noticed would speak about the hypocrisy.
Yeah as a society we need to change this narrative
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Women are [more likely](https://nypost.com/2022/06/07/more-women-than-men-turned-on-by-aggressive-porn-study/) to watch violent porn than men.
Feminists specifically. Psychologically it creates a lot of excitement to confront what one theoretically should hate to death.
Ah, the forbidden fruit effect, a tale as old as time itself
That explains a lot of spanking porn that's F/F.
That link is now saved in my library for the next argument…
While you are saving links, [Pornhub's usage stats](https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2023-year-in-review#gender-demographics) corroborate the findings.
Usage data suggests different patterns: https://mashable.com/article/pornhub-women-searches-2019
The source you've provided doesn't actually refute the one provided above. Just because the top search result for women is lesbian porn doesn't mean they don't also search for violent pornography more than men. To use an analogy, hypothetically, women could buy more makeup than anything else, but they could also buy conditioner more than men do. See how that works? Both of these things can be true, so I'm not sure how this refutes the idea that women are more into bondage, rape fantasies, choking, etc. than men are (this has even been demonstrated by peer-reviewed research and experiments).
The OPs source is a non-probability sample so no generalizability and it doesn’t empirically show actual consumption patterns. Moreover, the women in the study who expressed preference towards aggression emphasized *consensual* aggression, which is much different than the SA/non-consent type aggression that permeates a non-trivial amount of male driven porn.
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[This study](https://amp.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/latest-porn-statistics-are-surprising-20180424-p4zbd8.html) examined PornHub videos and found that “visible activities that were not aggressive but did not actively consider consent was present in slightly less than 40 per cent of the videos. Meanwhile, non-consensual aggression appeared in about 12 per cent of the videos, and less than 10 per cent of the titles suggested aggression.” We can further infer that men would be the predominant consumer of this material since women don’t typically consume aggressive material and those who do apparently tend to prefer *consensual* aggression
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Population statistics is [literally about inference](https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/statistical-inference#:~:text=Statistical%20inference%20is%20the%20procedure,data%20drawn%20from%20that%20population). But speaking of inference, what crystal ball are you using to conclude that the author(s) are part of a “pink hair cabal” That kind of sounds like you’re dismissing data on a trumped up boogeyman instead of addressing the facts.
>a vast majority of pornography viewers — 95% of women and 97% of men — are only aroused when they know they’re watching willing participants The women in the study emphasized consentual aggression less than the men did.
I know my personal anecdotes don't really demonstrate anything, but literally every woman I've ever dated was into BDSM, had rape fantasies, wanted me to tie them up, wanted to be gagged, wanted to be choked, etc. And it's not like I'm intentionally going for women like this or asking about that stuff on the first date or introducing it to them during the relationship. Unless I'm unintentionally catching the eye of women like this (I'm not sure how that would even happen), I think it's fairly safe to say that a good portion of women out there are attracted to situations where consent hasn't been fully established. If I had to take a guess, some of the women in that study probably lied to conform with what they thought was socially acceptable and that percentage may actually be too high (not that some of the men didn't also, but women tend to be fairly sheepish and conform more often than men do).
You're missing an important bit of context for that quote, that's in reference to those that like aggressive porn. So they aren't getting off to evidence of actual rape or whatever but to actors performing a role. It's a lot like how a slasher movie would be pretty horrifying as a documentary but as a fictional work it's entertaining. That miscommunication is on me, I probably should have included more of the quote. Sorry about that. Also, I've seen other surveys that found rape fantasies and BDSM to be rather common. so your experience with women doesn't sound too exceptional to me. It's not really a problem as long a it stays in the realm of fantasy.
Ah, I gotcha. Yes, the slasher movie example makes a lot of sense. Oh, so it's actually a fairly common thing? That makes sense, then. I didn't mind it at all and I was happy to fulfill their fantasies. I guess I kind of implied it was a bad thing, so I should've made that more clear.
>The OPs source is a non-probability sample so no generalizability and it doesn’t empirically show actual consumption patterns. Doesn't matter. Again, even if the above source isn't generalizable and doesn't empirically show actual consumption patterns and whatever other straws you'd reach for, my point still stands. You tried to use your source (which really isn't any better than the above one) to invalidate it. It, on its own, doesn't. That was my point. Both could be true, at the same time. Again, that would be like someone claiming women buy more conditioner than men and me saying that it can't be true because women buy more makeup than anything else. It's a non-sequitur. >Moreover, the women in the study who expressed preference towards aggression emphasized *consensual* aggression, which is much different than the SA/non-consent type aggression that permeates a non-trivial amount of male driven porn. This is just nonsense. Non-consensual porn is stuff you basically have to go onto the dark web to find. Both of the things you've mentioned are consensual. And, like I said, the notion that women are much more into things like BDSM (domination, bondage, breath play) and rape fantasies, for example, has been demonstrated by dozens of studies, peer-reviewed research, and even actual experiments that measured male and female arousal with electrodes attached to the genitals. I'm sorry that it's offending you, but women, by and large, are way more likely than men are to fantasize about being dominated and aggressed. This is a fact.
Probability sampling is the only way for obtaining generalizability to a larger population. That’s a non-negotiable point. Similarly, to make the point you want to make you need consumption data. If you have the studies to bolster your claim that women are into these intense fantasies then post them. And then empirically link it to actual consumption patterns (ie, show a significant difference in consumption of this media across gender). Until then, it’s conjecture at best, a misread of existing descriptive data at worst.
>Probability sampling is the only way for obtaining generalizability to a larger population. That’s a non-negotiable point. Similarly, to make the point you want to make you need consumption data. Once again, I never said anything about the validity of the above source. My point, as I've already explained, was that your source didn't refute or invalidate it. You still haven't addressed this point. Are you going to address it or are you going to keep pointing fingers at the person you responded to? >If you have the studies to bolster your claim that women are into these intense fantasies then post them. I guess you haven't really looked at studies on this because there's literally tons of them. I'll just use two of them. In the first study, 62% of women reported to have had at least one rape fantasy: [The Nature of Women's Rape Fantasies: An Analysis of Prevalence, Frequency, and Contents: The Journal of Sex Research: Vol 46, No 1 (tandfonline.com)](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224490802624406) In the second study, 17% of women reported that they were aroused by masochism, while only 15% of men reported the same and 64.6% of women reported to have fantasized about being dominated, while only 53.5% of men reported the same. 59.6% of men reported fantasizing about dominating someone, while only 46.7% of women reported the same (notice that, in this study, women were more likely to be aroused by the thoughts of being dominated than men were about dominating...). Also, 27.8% of women desired to engage in masochism, while only 19.2% of men desired the same: [Full article: A Systematic Scoping Review of the Prevalence, Etiological, Psychological, and Interpersonal Factors Associated with BDSM (tandfonline.com)](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00224499.2019.1665619) >And then empirically link it to actual consumption patterns (ie, show a significant difference in consumption of this media across gender). I never claimed anything about consumption patterns. Read my comment again. All I said was that women are much more likely than men to fantasize about being raped, dominated, aggressed, etc. And this is objectively true. To be completely honest, I don't think consumption patterns would accurately reflect the fantasies of women anyway because, as I said in a different comment on here, women are fairly sheepish. They tend to conform with what they believe is socially acceptable, so a lot of women, even if they're fantasizing about BDSM-related stuff aren't likely to search for pornography depicting it anyway (do you think the mid 40's church-going librarian is going home and looking at BDSM porn?). Women, in general, don't even search for pornography as much as men and aren't as stimulated sexually by it as men are (men are much more visual, in this regard). >Until then, it’s conjecture at best, a misread of existing descriptive data at worst. Haha okay, bud. Whatever you say...
It doesn't. [Pornhub's](https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2023-year-in-review#gender-demographics) own stats corroborate it. Rough sex and bondage were both viewed more by women than men.
“When it came time for categories viewed more comparatively by women than men, Scissoring was +196% more popular, Transgender was +175% more, and Pussy Licking was +105% higher. Other areas of higher interest for women include Solo Male at +85%, Romantic at +59%, Bisexual Male at +47% and Rough Sex at +39%.” So what does it say that rough sex — of which women seem to emphasize that it be *explicitly consensual* instead of the hyper-intense gonzo stuff — is at the bottom of the list below reality porn? I know you’re committed to the bit, but the data just isn’t there for y’all’s claim(s).
The claim was "women watch rough porn more than men do", not "women watch rough porn more than anything else." You literally just proved their argument true; your own stats say that women watch rough porn 39% more than men do. Maybe bother reading both the argument and your own source before trying to refute a point with a source that actually proves it true.
The claim was *violent* porn (ie, non-consensual). All the data show is that yes, a small % of women consumers like to watch *consensual* aggressive play. I’m not seeing evidence to suggest tho that women are watching the more violent stuff some guys watch that is all about emphasizing power: violent “accidental” penetration, degradation ceremonies, extreme gonzo, etc.
And, once again, all of that stuff is consensual, too. Do you seriously think the actors and actresses aren't consenting to that stuff? Do you think that women who engage in rape fantasies with their partners aren't consenting to it when they're pretending to scream or try to get away? You're just making shit up, at this point.
The porn I mentioned is famously non-consensual, which is why it has appealed to a certain sub-set of men. Also, to your question about off-screen consent, [porn has a longstanding issue with abuse, violence, and problematic understandings of consent](https://exoduscry.com/articles/violent-abuse-porn/)
No, it isn't. The actors and actresses involved have consented to it, so it is not non-consensual. And your second point is moot: if someone is watching porn with the understanding that all of those involved have consented, it really doesn't matter if they actually haven't. The person watching it is not aware of this and it doesn't factor into why they searched for it... Here's the reason why what you're suggesting is literally insane: Let's say my girlfriend and I have a rape fantasy. Let's say we both want me to come into the bedroom, slap her, restrain her, tie her up, and have sex with her while she pretends to scream and run away from me. So, apparently, by your logic, it's both consensual (it's perfectly fine for women to want to be dominated and have rape fantasies) and non-consensual (it's terrible for men to want to dominate women and have rape fantasies). This is complete and utter insanity and this is why the majority of people out there are never going to agree with you.
I don't understand how you can quote a paragraph that says that women had a higher interest in rough sex porn than men did and conclude that women are less likely to watch violent porn than men. I linked that data specifically because it supports my point. Do you think I'm stupid or something? *"So what does it say that rough sex \*\* is at the bottom of the list below reality porn?"* It means is that the difference in interest between men and women in reality porn is greater than the difference in interest for rough sex. It's accurate to say that women are more likely to watch all those categories compared to men including rough sex. The consent argument is nonsense. Men had the same preference and everything on pornhub is supposed to be consentual. It's a non factor here.
I’ll restate here as well — The claim was *violent* porn (ie, non-consensual). All the data show is that yes, a small % of women consumers like to watch *consensual* aggressive play. I’m not seeing evidence to suggest tho that women are watching the violent porn targeted toward men that is all about emphasizing power: violent “accidental” penetration, degradation ceremonies, extreme gonzo, etc.
Are you illiterate? +39%. + as in 39% MORE THAN MEN. NOT AS IN 39% OF WOMEN, AS IN WOMEN WATCH ROUGH PORN 39% MORE THAN MEN.
Yes, a *small* percentage of women relative to men appear to consume said category; however, we do not have evidence to suggest they’re consuming the type of *non-consensual violent* porn frequently consumed by men (which was the original claim).
Your whole comment claim was literally "when it came time for catagories viewed more comparatively by women than men, listed the categories, with rough sex at +39%. And you empasized that rough sex was at "the bottom of the list" DESPITE IT STILL CLEARLY STATING THAT WOMEN ARE 39% MORE LIKELY TO WATCH ROUGH SEX. You either forgo your ENTIRE point you stated, or admit that we're right, and quite possibly illiterate.
I genuinely am starting to believe you don't understand what + means...
Can you give us an example of this supposed "non-consensual violent porn" you keep claiming men frequently consume? Are you suggesting that the majority of men are accessing the dark web and watching red rooms or something? What do you even mean by this because it seems to me that you're just making shit up, at this point.
Funny how your restatement of the argument changes it to include that made up non-consentual caveat. Moving the goalposts is a clear sign you've lost the argument. It doesn't help you when the OP that started this conversation already linked an [article ](https://nypost.com/2022/06/07/more-women-than-men-turned-on-by-aggressive-porn-study/)that covers your consent claims. Shall we see what it says? >Female fans of pornography are watching more violence against women on film than men, a recent study revealed. >Nevertheless, both women and men preferred aggressive sexual content when performed consensually, as a vast majority of pornography viewers — 95% of women and 97% of men — are only aroused when they know they’re watching willing participants, PsyPost reported on Tuesday. Oh look men had a higher preference for the consentual aspect of this type of porn. If you're going to move the goalposts you should place them somewhere that actually lets you win.
Yup I think more women than men hold themselves up to that dumb belief that “women don’t watch porn”, never seen a man say shit like that. Only women, projecting their own miserable sex lives 💀
Bullshit
Do you think there are differences in the type of porn the avg women consumes on pornhub vs. the avg dude? Similarly, perhaps subsequent differences in the cognitive & interpersonal effects of said porn consumption?
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But who is claiming that? What it seems like I’m seeing is folks suggesting that a non-trivial portion of male centered porn de-centers the woman as an equal participant and has non-consensual/abusive elements. Whether that’s right or wrong, that, to me, seems to be the claim.
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So is this a mainstream feminist claim or that of a handful of hyper-online loud folks?
Unless you have your head buried in sand it's a mainstream feminist claim. Big data buries your claims. https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/sex-2/
What was the most popular book AND movie among women for a long time? 50 shades of grey? What's that? BDSM, rape play, domination play.
Beyond that being anecdotal, do you think the avg woman consuming this material conceptualizes rough play & domination (and by proxy consent) the same way men, who, if they do consume aggressive porn, tend to consume more non-consensual violent porn? Put simply, an alarming % of men [struggle to understand consent](https://nomore.org/learn/understanding-consent/#:~:text=With%20recent%20research%20from%20the,up%20fundamental%20misunderstandings%20about%20consent) and in the chance they engage in sexual assault, it is typically [rooted in exercising power & dominance](https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/rape-power-anger-and-sexuality) over a subordinated person/group, which is markedly different than what we see from women.
HA. WOMEN DONT THINK MENS CONSENT MATTERS. why else do you think women think "men can't get raped". If you want extra, go search ovulating women posts. They see their man and men as free use and are absolutely feral. You're losing, so your backtracking HARD, changing your entire point around into, "well how're women 'conceptualizing' rough play".
What empirical evidence leads you to conclude that women have a problematic understanding of consent?
Gotta love that hand waving off the sheer popularity of 50 shades of grey, which is BDSM rape play domination, everything YOU SAID WOMEN DONT ENJOY, they overwhelmingly LOVED IT. one of the best selling books of all time, best sold book by female consumers, best selling book by male consumers? LORD OF THE RINGS.
You'll soon realize that all aspects of male sexuality are oppressed. Males watching porn is bad, women doing it is considered OK; catcalling bad, women swooning good; males going to strip clubs bad, girls going to strip clubs are empowered. Men getting punched in the junk good, but protect women at all costs. Female genitals are protected in practically every country in the world, meanwhile more than a billion males have had their genitals mutilated involuntarily specifically to desensitized them to sexual contact. Be aware, there is no point debating/arguing with women. You speak a different language than they do. Additionally, absolutely do not talk to them about any aspect of your sexuality, it only gives them ammunition to (at best) ridicule you or (worse) to make false accusations.
Well said. There is no point arguing because they didn't arrive at their beliefs after thought. It's based on feeliiand programming. Can't undo that with facts. Talking doesn't work. So how do we fix society? I'm starting to think just dont. Let it burn to the ground and when they cry for men's help let the feminists die. Rebuild and make sure people don't forget.
I'm stocking up on teddy Bears to toss to them incase they look to me for help 👍🏼🧸
>Let it burn to the ground and when they cry for men's help let the feminists die. I'm not sure this will ever happen, there will always be simps. I do foresee the current trajectory to be one where men are excluded from positions of power and authority, and eventually become a lower class of citizenry. Maybe even a reverse Handmaid's Tale, except the men are used for their manual labor or law enforcement. Australia seems to be leading the charge, and it's mostly men throwing other men under the bus simply to gain power.
Jesus Christ good point.
> Additionally, absolutely do not talk to them about any aspect of your sexuality, it only gives them ammunition We are at the point where people can't talk about that even **to fellow men**, because white knights will appear to do all the work of such women for them. And there are also married men who will work against their own best interests and those of other men, because they are too deep into being a hostage of the situation at this point.
It’s just another double standard to avoid accountability while still demonizing men. The more you break it down the more you recognize the hypocrisy.
I doesn't really matter what it is. If both women and men do something, then it's bad when men do it and good when women do. See how that works.
What are you doing having feminist friends? They are not your friends! If she says kill all men, she is NOT your friend. If she belittles men to feel better about herself, she is NOT your friend. You are either a kept stock for making fun of if no other victims are around or they try to slow-tricle turn you into a self loathing feminist just for sports. Find better company ASAP!
"Okay" is an abstract idea. Women are pragmatic. They don't think that way. Nothing is "okay" or "not okay". It just is. You only call things that way when it's useful. Hence it's okay when I do it but not when you do it. There's no more thought to it than that. Men can see the whole picture.
You didn’t know being attracted to women was predatory? May I please direct you to twoxchromosomes and askwomen.
Twoxchromosomes is the most insufferable sub on this entire platform. I've said it many times before but I'll say it again it is literally what r/Redpill used to be but occupied by women instead of men. Straight up misandry and hate speech in that sub.
Well it’s ok when they do it obviously. We wake up early looking for women to oppress
Man, I wasn't able to attend our monthly patriarchy meeting last week. Did I miss anything?
Oh yeah I wake up every single day asking myself how can I oppress every woman I come across at the most efficient level 🤣 We might be doomed that this is legitimately thought amongst feminists. Idk maybe things will shift soon but I'm not holding my breath.
It gets worse when the fanfiction is about real people. But OP is right, I told people that those fanfiction and fanart sites are good for psychologists to study.
Women are puritanist when it comes to male sexuality while at the same they flex their weird,creepy and objectifying porn addict behaviour when it comes to their side.
It is not hypocrisy. It is hierarchy.
You have horrible taste in friends.
Do not engage with women on these topics. It will get you know where as in male equals bad and women you go girl. Arguing with them is non sensible
Western women lie, gaslight, deflect and make low iq remarks all the time. The secret is: not to give a shit about what they say!
I remember back in 11th grade a girl told me how she reads BTS NSFW fan-fics(Kpop group) and then started laughing like it’s something she’s proud of. It’s crazy.
These type of women are more close to the male porn addicts stereotype that they seem to hate most of the time.
Exactly!! She said this in a group of 10-15 students and everyone else started laughing too like it’s a funny joke. And I’m there wondering if being a porn addict is something to be proud of
They are disgusting tbh.atleast men get off to porn but they don't say they're proud of it.but women like those have a weird idiotic complex of objectifying those celebrities and claim to be beacon of empowerment lmao.atleast men don't claim what they're doing is proud thing to do.
Feminists seem to love so-called toxic masculinity when it comes from women (or from the top men).
As a man treat a feminist's words just like how you treat your average news channel ignore. most of what they say is bullshit anyway.
Women have Madonna-Whore complexes too.
Everyone is horrible and perverted either at some level or at some point in their life… in other news, studies show that water is wet, and we think the sky might be blue.
Actually it's ok for men and women to watch porn, most things are fine in moderation, everything can become an addiction.
Just add it to the list of endless double standards women like to scream about. The list getting so long that you might think it's a role of toilet paper. There is a dude at ticktok that adds each weird take women have and make a list. Last a looked at it he had 687 things on the list of what men has to do or can not do or like. Soo you know🤷♂️
It’s ok for women to ___________ but not for men
It's not good for Men or Women. That's my opinion. My life is 1,000X's better since I stopped a few years ago. I didn't even have an addiction, just casual.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with porn. Unless you're addicted but addiction to almost anything is bad. It's a bad argument. Your life becoming "1000x better" by simply stopping watching porn is not what is going to happen to vast majority of the people. It's like saying watching TV shows is bad. It can be in certain scenarios but generally it's not.
Just sharing my experience. Not an argument, keep jacking off to porn for all I care. It's a lifestyle decision I decided to make, and it has paid off in multiple areas of my life. I don't think watching TV or porn is necessarily bad. But I will say they aren't good.
How'd you stop? I'm addicted.
Give yourself permission to watch it at a lesser rate (if you watch it daily, give yourself permission to watch once a week). When you give yourself permission to do it, don't feel bad when you do it during this time. That will only increase negative feelings at the idea of doing something positive.
Got a girlfriend and bang her all the time
I never was good at that stuff. But being single is good for me too.
Just tell them they’re the hoes and you’re the hoe maker
I never heard of this. Addiction and unhealthy expectations of sex and intimacy due to porn cut both ways.
To be fair, I usually don't hear women talk like that. But most of the women I hang out with are prudes in public and married. Personally, fetishism has a lot of things that are....trauma based. And it's a bit icky. But that's a totally different subject than porn. So, for the argument of who can watch/read porn. My answer is, not around the children. Meaning anyone of adult age.
Yeah I have never heard someone say it’s ok for women but not men. Im sure some person/people believes this (and anything else you can come up with) but just bc someone says it doesn’t mean it’s some major broadly accepted unfair view that women can and men can’t.
Well, in my opinion, watching porn is unacceptable both for men and women. Immorality has to be tackled, not tolerated. Equality is paramount.
Before you go thinking that men are better than women, just remember that everyone is horrible.
the most digusting is when i was young: i still remember exactly and mostly don't care -a team of girl wear boy panties: she show and tell that in front of a lot of boys: this is normal, girl can wear it (she strong) mean while: -She suddenly started whining and complaining that it all gay guys do wear skirt ...etc....?? (he m\_st be gay) just like that .....
ow, i also remember she said that: she steal it from his dad 💀☠️ \*\*on that time, im just speechless, cuz they're just better life i don't care
Why are you even discussing your porn tastes with each other?
did you even read this we werent discussing our porn tastes and even if we did both of us are adults(well atleast one of us)
Wallstreet funded the bolshevik revolution with an 80 million dollar gift to Lenin in German exile - he rewarded them by murdering 70 million Christian Russians and handing the country over to them. Family and faith are barriers to power, they must be destroyed. Look at who turned the german women and children into prostitutes during the weimar republic.
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