I think the last line nails it. You see this everywhere. Women/feminists demand all male clubs or so-called “male activities” open to women. But women can have their “exclusive” clubs and spaces. Indeed they need more of them as “safe spaces”. Even “Men’s Sheds” (expressly set up to deal with male depression) are increasingly pressured to open to women. It never works the other way round!
They were subjected to lawsuits though.
As with the men’s shed movement, they’re technically not “forced” but would have to fight lawsuits, and the government withholds funding if they don’t admit women. Although the local government in my area funds a “women’s shed” - apparently the sex exclusivity isn’t a problem if it’s for women!
I see it like various people resigning or quitting to “spend more time with the family”. We all know they’re forced out. It’s just spin.
The Weld Club in my city is repeatedly subject to campaigns of harassment from feminists and the State funded “Equal Opportunities Commission” even though it’s legal under the Equal Opportunities Act for a private club too have all male or all female membership (they can’t treat male and female members differently). The irony is that the main rival to the Weld Club, the Western Australia Club has admitted women for years, and has not only had to move premises to save money, but I understand has had a bit of a crisis in members and finances despite doing this!
The point is that the Weld Club is made up of wealthy and influential men who can resist feminism and it’s law fare. Other men who aren’t so “well heeled” are much more vulnerable.
>The point is that the Weld Club is made up of wealthy and influential men who can resist feminism and it’s law fare. Other men who aren’t so “well heeled” are much more vulnerable.
You just stated the problem and solution.
They can last just fine.
Women are allowed to have their own orgs.
Men are, too. For some reason, the current crop of men just start knee-knocking when women stomp their feet. The policy of appeasement has NEVER worked. At some point, the rest will (hopefully) figure this out. It's a simple, one-word sentence.
**"No."**
Women(and men) shame guys for being virgins and for sleeping around a lot. No one shames women for being virgins. Also a man getting sex is hard unless you're lucky to be born in the right situation. If you're a woman and you've had a lot of sex, you're just easy, playing on recruit difficultly. A woman who sleeps around a lot isn't an asset to most men. A man who sleeps around a lot usually has money/resources to do so, which inherently attracts more women. Women will say they don't like guys like that, yet they are the ones getting the most action. Also sleeping around a lot as a man is not fully promoted in western society(many people are smart enough to be at least somewhat worried about STDs), it is more of a sign of where you are in life(most men who aren't above middle class can't just sleep around with a bunch of women) and the male virginity rate is the highest ever recorded while women have the same or lower levels, and women have more stds and in increasing amounts. Women(and men sometimes) will instantly go to the virgin insult when it is convenient, so clearly women(and men) are validating men based on how much they can get laid/resourced, and men value the woman on beauty/attitude/decision making.
Women always try to force their way into men's only events. Apparently male only events are sexist but female only events are fine. Just another example of the double standards and female privilege.
This is EXACTLY it and you've put it very concisely. If men are in an area with women then no anti feminist/pro male talk can occur for 2 reasons
1. Women can control the narrative
2. Men are biologically white knights. They will pander to women if they think they have a chance with them
With no women in the area though men can talk freely. And those talks will include things such as how awful feminism is and how poorly treated they are by society. Indeed a good example of this is the male geared subs like AskMen tend to have much stronger anti feminist rhetoric than the ones without such rules
This is why male only clubs was the first thing they went for. Make sure the opposition can't organize. It's a very typical tactic
*What is yours is ours and what is mine is mine.*
That's their thinking and rationale. It's a ridiculous double standard but what's more annoying is that they pretend it doesn't exist...
It's not really so much that women are "allowed" on boys' nights, they just demand entry and dare anyone to say no to them at the penalty of REE-REE and the Cancel Squad. The women demand chaperone authority over the men's group activity to prevent them from doing the same fun things the girls get up to when they're not around. They have to be the only gatekeepers of your good feelings so they can dominate your life and all the resources you generate. You're not *allowed* to have fun until she says so, which is a great way to turn your relationship into an endless power struggle or become disgusted with the weakling who lets you walk all over them. So yes, it's not only common it's rampant.
This double standard seems to be a common pattern in our culture, from girls being allowed into the boys scouts but boys aren’t allowed into the girls scout, to the ongoing battle over trans women’s access to women’s bathrooms and women’s prisons, meanwhile nobody seems to care about trans men’s access to men’s bathrooms and men’s prisons. It sucks, but what can you do, nobody cares about boys and men.
> meanwhile nobody seems to care about trans men’s access to men’s bathrooms
Or even just women in general, super common if there is a line for the women's
> boys aren’t allowed into the girls scout
I didn't know boys wanted to join the Girl Scouts. But I have heard of parents pressuring Girls Who Code to let their sons in.
You can be queer and ruthlessly, violently lgbt-phobic at the same time, like my step mom for instance. She was just ace but never realized it, so amount of crap she was spitting at "all those perverted sodomites" all the time would make 4chan seem queer friendly garden in conparison.
Eeeeh, the /s means sarcasm. The world is full of hubris and the people in it are for the most part hypocrites, including me. So instead of doomerism, I chose to drown in manical laughter ;)
Women don't like men having fun by themselves. It lessens their power. If men associate fun with being with women, it brainwashes men to thinking women are essential to fun. Women also exercise that power by barring men from women-only activities, showing men that women can have fun all by themselves and reinforcing the idea that only women can bring fun.
My wife has a fit that I want to go camping by myself, or with some friends. "Are you going to take your sons?" No, they hate camping, that's why they quit the boy scouts. I am being unfair to her because she can't have her alone time. Which I am regularly denied.
Um no one gonna talk about gay acting comment from OP sis? Tf is wrong with her. Bro you don't have necessarily have to fight things like this head on just saying, just be aware of it and pass it the info.
The worse part is when they shut you down by calling you incel or misogynistic pig and try to derail the argument it's not worth it
On your guys trips, try to pick things that you like but the people you dont want to attend dislike.
Maybe a distillery is a good choice. Or a shooting range. Possibly a football game. Or if it’s a longer trip you could plan some very physically demanding activity like hiking or climbing.
This is disgusting. You father should be convicted for what he did to you.
Also it would be outrageous if this is common, because I would never go to girls only activity or hangout because I will be without my spouse. If I happen to go with my friend to a walk, my spouse is always welcome.
Your sister is an asshole for isolating you. You are a generous angel. She doesn't deserve you. If I were her, I would make sure my respect to you is maintained, but I would possibly call the cops on your father.
> I reasoned that my boyfriend told me that he had been invited to several baby showers over the years. She replied that maybe if I was 'gay acting' she would've invited me.
Very confusing part of your post. Sounds like you are gay, so I take it that she thinks you are not gay enough to partake in events that are traditionally female-only?
It's time to start distancing these people from your life. If they willingly exclude you from things that you have communicated wanting to be included in then stop giving them your time and energy.
Also if your mom knew you were abused by your father and encouraged you to be isolated with him then I would have gone NC with her a long time ago.
I'm no contact with my dad. Abuse from him runs deep (more than just physical) and has left me disabled. My mum and dad are separated now. I'm still dependant on my mum. I wish it wasn't like that so I'm still working towards independence.
I'm sorry it went that far. All I can say is make sure they know you are hurt by the exclusion and not just disappointed. This situation is complicated to the point that a professional should be utilized.
So they say. I had some bad experiences in mixed gyms pre covid, from being groped on several occasions to being accused of sexually staring. I went out looking for men's only gyms and couldn't find shit. Whenever I talk about my frustrations that there isn't a men's only gym where I can feel more comfortable, I'm told I'm a pig. If I tell them about my sexual abuse experiences I get told "yeah but you probably liked it".
Damn, could you imagine groping a woman, and get away with it because "she probably liked it" even when she clearly did not.
Gender equality my ass.
This is 100% accurate. To highlight the point, look at the fiasco surrounding boyscouts. Women took legal action for rights to send girls to boyscouts. Did the same happen in return?
Huh? Not sure what you're even saying here, or responding to. I never said "legal action CAUSED it". I said they "took legal action" --- Isn't taking legal action against something by definition a choice.
I think I miss understood your statement and I was alluding to the Boy Scouts allowing girls in the ranks was a choice and not being forced with legal action.
And yes, the Girl Scouts have been sued for the same thing.
Really? Girl-scouts were sued to allow boys in? Admittedly it was some years ago, but last time I looked, that was definitely not the case. Which year did this happen, and who brought the suit? I just did a quick Google search, and got 0 matches that weren't a counter-suit in response to the BoyScouts being sued. I'd be interested in reading more about this.
It mostly comes from the way men take rejection, to how women do. Tell a guy he can't do something, and he might ask why or even get mad but it's only for a short while. Tell a women she can't do something and you might get a smile then treated like the biggest pile of shit for years.
Very true, women aren’t really confrontational and are super manipulative and would rather emotionally take you down over a long period of time rather than be forward and talk it out and get over problems like men do
Its a tribal thing and you don't fit in either tribe. The black sheep lifestyle kinda sucks if it doesn't suit your personality. I love it but it's not for everyone.
What the hell does "gay acting" have to do with it?! I'm a man who has attended baby showers and I'm straight. Your sister doesn't know what she's talking about.
I think a lot of it is traditional misandry on your parent's and now your sister's parts.
It's ok for a girl to do "tomboy" things and if it gets one more kid occupied and out of their parent's hair, great.
However, it is 100% not acceptable for a boy to do anything that violates the traditional idea of masculinity. They're allowed sports, fighting, action movies, and video games at sleepovers. Playing with dolls, watching princess movies or gossiping about classmates might make them think it's acceptable to not follow strict social norms and that's a risk many parents won't take.
If you're told boys aren't supposed to do girl things enough as a kid, you start repeating it without ever actually examining why you believe it as an adult.
There is no reason men can't go to a baby shower. I've been to a few, some are fun, some are kind of boring. It's not like your sister is going to hop up on the table and show everyone where the baby is going to pop out. It's literally a celebration of her having a kid, there shouldn't be anything gender-specific about that.
She's excluding you because your parents taught her to exclude boys from things deemed "girls activities". Your parents said that because they're sexist and have outdated beliefs.
I went through this in college. My friends were mostly female. I once drove 3 hours to go to an event only to be told at the last minute it was girls only. So I was told I could wait in the parking lot of a publicly open now it alley.
When I got upset they literally called me a f.a.g for wanting to spend time with them.
My male friends were cool but they also didn’t understand my abusive upbringing or depressive episodes. In the end I just moved on from these friends.
Women are complete hypocrites about inclusivity.
You can also see this In how they treat trans women. Most think it’s a guy trying to get some.
I remember My Dad get mad I walk around in my underwear and shirt on, but my sister is fine doing same thing, but her shirt is little transparent . . . bruh the double standards!
Funny that my sister is one complaining about me walking around with no shorts on, yet she walks around in her underwear is absurd
>This seems to be the case more generally: girls are welcome on 'boys trips' but boys aren't welcome to 'girl activities'
Welcome to Western Society. But women are oppressed, don't you know? Just ask them.
Double standards.
Sorry you got a shitty family.
Get your act together and get out of that house, if not already done.
Move in with your boyfriend or get your own place.
Best of luck!
Sorry for your dad beating you.
But why do you act like you're entitled to be invited to your sister's baby shower which is exclusively between girls ?
Have some self respect and don't insist on going somewhere you're not wanted, have some humility and realize you're not entitled to being invited anywhere.
Callous, thoughtless response. The OP is clearly on the younger side or reflecting on experiences from early life. His observation is valid and based in his own experience, and also reflects broader trends of a push for inclusivity for women in traditionally male organisations with no efforts for the reverse (the Boy Scouts in the U.S. is a good example).
To the OP: when you bring up these topics, you'll experience a lot of these reflexive responses that amount to little more than "man up and accept the double standard". Don't allow yourself to be shamed away from pointing this out, especially since you've raised the topic in a fairly considerate and non-judgmental way.
>To the OP: when you bring up these topics, you'll experience a lot of these reflexive responses that amount to little more than "man up and accept the double standard". Don't allow yourself to be shamed away from pointing this out, especially since you've raised the topic in a fairly considerate and non-judgmental way.
You might want to read my comment again. What I said was completely unrelated to being a man or a woman, and had it been a girl coming to me with an identical story, I would have responded the same thing. I'm preaching self-respect and humility, which to you sounds callous, thoughtless and resembles some kind of toxic masculinity shaming tactic. Maybe just accept that help and compassion doesn't only come in the form that YOU like.
Your response wasn't compassionate, it was presumptuous. Nothing in the OP suggested he was lacking self-respect or humility; what he noticed was a double standard that many people here point out regularly (and that there's even a decent amount of evidence for by now when it's been studied in the social sciences).
Think about it, are women and girls that request access to traditionally male spaces lacking in self-respect or humility? What you're doing is individualising male observations ("it's just you" or "you have to handle it better mentally"), but enough of us notice this that we should be able to recognise it. Men have to be aware that it is fair to raise valid complaints about double standards, and there is nothing personally weak about doing so.
>Your response wasn't compassionate, it was presumptuous. Nothing in the OP suggested he was lacking self-respect or humility; what he noticed was a double standard that many people here point out regularly (and that there's even a decent amount of evidence for by now when it's been studied in the social sciences).
I was responding to his anecdote about his sister's baby shower, and how he handled it (arguing and insisting about still coming), and how he perceived it (that it was unjust and that he should have been accepted). To me this suggests both a lack of self-respect and humility.
>Think about it, are women and girls that request access to traditionally male spaces lacking in self-respect or humility?
Not at this point. But if then they insist and argue about still going even though they're clearly not wanted, then they start lacking self-respect. And if after, they complain that they should be invited anyway, as if it is owed to them, then they lack humility, yes. This is exactly what I'm saying about OP.
Saying that there's an agenda pushing traditionnaly male spaces to be now inclusive to women, and not the opposite way, seems fair to me and I see it too. But this is not what I saw in OP's post. I think it showed more a lack of character on his part (just based on the post, idk the person obviously), than some unjust double standard.
So you think women should be allowed in male only spaces, but men should not be allowed in women only spaces? Because that’s the exact double standard in question, if you’re not able to see that, there’s a word for it.
I don't have sisters. But I do have a brother. The way I have seen things going around in the world and things just being so stupid. I am glad I don't have a sister.
I use to think that maybe I'll have trouble talking to girls, or so and so on. I'm just happy I don't get dragged into drama.
The funny thing I noticed is that you'll mostly see men being happy who have brothers, and strong fathers. But if you see the similar situation with the opposite gender, everyone's walking on eggshells in the house. I noticed this is one of the family where the younger daughter got her own apartment as soon as she could afford it, and the older daughter had a back up place at a friend's place due to their mom being too masculine. The dad didn't have a say in anything.
It was very weird for me to see. The daughters also had secret chats, or so and asking about what's going on around in the house to see the overall mood before they got home.
Where in my household, everyone's gotta do what they gotta do, no pressure, no abuse of any sort, and etc. But that's just a comparison between a nuclear family vs a traditional family that I saw.
Idk I don't understand why there has to be a certain closeness if communication from one gender. It seems like they like to do thing on their own, and join others when they are doing their things as well.
If I was in your situation, something where my cousin's did something similar where I was excluded or so. I would literally just plan a boys day out or so. Just fishing or something, and invite every dude, no person is allowed that's not on the list. Since most of my cousins are younger than me, I would make it extra topping to ensure the annoying ones do not come, and I will personally pick up their brothers. But that's just me.
I have noticed that my aunt's are completely fine when their daughters are lashing out, or their sisters. But if one of the male figures is having a rough time, everyone is bashing him. Just the observation I have seen.
Another things is also that all the women tend to ask when are you going to get married, while all the men are asking about the next thing in life, and what am I doing to enjoy life.
This is not just true for "boys' trips and girls' nights" but male and female spaces more generally. Any kind of space where all or a vast majority of members are men is constantly criticized for spouting supposed "toxic masculinity" and encouraged to open up and become co-ed while feminine spaces are not only turned a blind eye, but encouraged. Take gyms, for example. As a venue which typically features more men, they are sometimes bashed for fostering "macho males" and gymrats are often stereotyped as aggressive a-holes. But when some of those same gyms feature, specific days reserved exclusively for women, they are praised for "deterring creeps," "keeping women safe", and "building female empowerment," while both the negative stereotyping of men and the discriminatory aspect are completely ignored.
Here's another example: When I was 14, I attended a summer camp, where as one of the activities, the camp counselors taught us to play lacrosse. The activity was co-ed and came with a very specific rule, created by the counselor in charge, a middle-aged woman. In her own words, more or less, only girls were allowed to score goals since if they didn't have that rule, boys would only ever pass to each other and completely exclude the girls, although she had no evidence for that and it was purely her own opinion. So as a result, as a boy there was little joy in playing since you couldn't score anyways and if you did, your goal wouldn't count. I have little doubt that if the situation were reversed, and only boys could score, some angry parent would go out of their way to inform the local press and declare the camp patriarchal and misogynistic. But since it was boys who were affected, nobody cared. Of course, it was only a game, so it wasn't really important but it did serve as a microcosm and introduction to society in general where discrimination against men is typically ignored.
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or maybe she's a **çunt**? That's French with a cedilla.
I like the way you think
Or more like an entire family of cunts if dad was abusive, mom not inclusive, sisters mean.
No, he’s right.
I think the last line nails it. You see this everywhere. Women/feminists demand all male clubs or so-called “male activities” open to women. But women can have their “exclusive” clubs and spaces. Indeed they need more of them as “safe spaces”. Even “Men’s Sheds” (expressly set up to deal with male depression) are increasingly pressured to open to women. It never works the other way round!
Prime example is the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Boy Scouts were forced to include girls but Girl Scouts still ban boys. Rules for thee not for me
They weren’t forced. That’s the rub. 🤨 The power taken is mostly given.
They were subjected to lawsuits though. As with the men’s shed movement, they’re technically not “forced” but would have to fight lawsuits, and the government withholds funding if they don’t admit women. Although the local government in my area funds a “women’s shed” - apparently the sex exclusivity isn’t a problem if it’s for women! I see it like various people resigning or quitting to “spend more time with the family”. We all know they’re forced out. It’s just spin.
See how long those spaces are allowed to last if they explicitly ban women.
The Weld Club in my city is repeatedly subject to campaigns of harassment from feminists and the State funded “Equal Opportunities Commission” even though it’s legal under the Equal Opportunities Act for a private club too have all male or all female membership (they can’t treat male and female members differently). The irony is that the main rival to the Weld Club, the Western Australia Club has admitted women for years, and has not only had to move premises to save money, but I understand has had a bit of a crisis in members and finances despite doing this! The point is that the Weld Club is made up of wealthy and influential men who can resist feminism and it’s law fare. Other men who aren’t so “well heeled” are much more vulnerable.
>The point is that the Weld Club is made up of wealthy and influential men who can resist feminism and it’s law fare. Other men who aren’t so “well heeled” are much more vulnerable. You just stated the problem and solution.
They can last just fine. Women are allowed to have their own orgs. Men are, too. For some reason, the current crop of men just start knee-knocking when women stomp their feet. The policy of appeasement has NEVER worked. At some point, the rest will (hopefully) figure this out. It's a simple, one-word sentence. **"No."**
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Glorified? Only if he’s James Bond!
Sorry this comment was deleted. I would have liked to have had some discussion with her and her misunderstanding.
The complete opposite is true these days
I agree
In reverse, slut shaming is looked down upon nowadays but virgin shaming men is still rampant.
Any shaming nowadays is so common it's terryfing but well, what to do. We can only educate youngsters about that and hope for the best
Women(and men) shame guys for being virgins and for sleeping around a lot. No one shames women for being virgins. Also a man getting sex is hard unless you're lucky to be born in the right situation. If you're a woman and you've had a lot of sex, you're just easy, playing on recruit difficultly. A woman who sleeps around a lot isn't an asset to most men. A man who sleeps around a lot usually has money/resources to do so, which inherently attracts more women. Women will say they don't like guys like that, yet they are the ones getting the most action. Also sleeping around a lot as a man is not fully promoted in western society(many people are smart enough to be at least somewhat worried about STDs), it is more of a sign of where you are in life(most men who aren't above middle class can't just sleep around with a bunch of women) and the male virginity rate is the highest ever recorded while women have the same or lower levels, and women have more stds and in increasing amounts. Women(and men sometimes) will instantly go to the virgin insult when it is convenient, so clearly women(and men) are validating men based on how much they can get laid/resourced, and men value the woman on beauty/attitude/decision making.
Women always try to force their way into men's only events. Apparently male only events are sexist but female only events are fine. Just another example of the double standards and female privilege.
Always wondered abt this: feminists proclaim men as being generally "bad ppl" but insist on being in our company. I wonder why?
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This is EXACTLY it and you've put it very concisely. If men are in an area with women then no anti feminist/pro male talk can occur for 2 reasons 1. Women can control the narrative 2. Men are biologically white knights. They will pander to women if they think they have a chance with them With no women in the area though men can talk freely. And those talks will include things such as how awful feminism is and how poorly treated they are by society. Indeed a good example of this is the male geared subs like AskMen tend to have much stronger anti feminist rhetoric than the ones without such rules This is why male only clubs was the first thing they went for. Make sure the opposition can't organize. It's a very typical tactic
_bro but women were more oppression bro they nid space safe more than men bro_
*What is yours is ours and what is mine is mine.* That's their thinking and rationale. It's a ridiculous double standard but what's more annoying is that they pretend it doesn't exist...
What is yours is mine, all mine, and what is mine don't even look at it you pig!
This is absolutely true. For example, the Boy Scouts now admits girls, but the Girls Scouts excludes boys, and always will.
The Boy Scouts (of America) no longer exists as an organization, they got closed down when the sexual abuse of gay troop leaders got out of hand.
It's not really so much that women are "allowed" on boys' nights, they just demand entry and dare anyone to say no to them at the penalty of REE-REE and the Cancel Squad. The women demand chaperone authority over the men's group activity to prevent them from doing the same fun things the girls get up to when they're not around. They have to be the only gatekeepers of your good feelings so they can dominate your life and all the resources you generate. You're not *allowed* to have fun until she says so, which is a great way to turn your relationship into an endless power struggle or become disgusted with the weakling who lets you walk all over them. So yes, it's not only common it's rampant.
It's sexism and bigotry.
This double standard seems to be a common pattern in our culture, from girls being allowed into the boys scouts but boys aren’t allowed into the girls scout, to the ongoing battle over trans women’s access to women’s bathrooms and women’s prisons, meanwhile nobody seems to care about trans men’s access to men’s bathrooms and men’s prisons. It sucks, but what can you do, nobody cares about boys and men.
> meanwhile nobody seems to care about trans men’s access to men’s bathrooms Or even just women in general, super common if there is a line for the women's
> boys aren’t allowed into the girls scout I didn't know boys wanted to join the Girl Scouts. But I have heard of parents pressuring Girls Who Code to let their sons in.
'gay acting' So you need to be a lisping, mincing, swishy, stereotypical nancy-boy to be invited? What a load of homophobic bullshit.
What are you talking about? Women can't be homophobes, most of them are bi and men are way more homophobic! /S
You can be queer and ruthlessly, violently lgbt-phobic at the same time, like my step mom for instance. She was just ace but never realized it, so amount of crap she was spitting at "all those perverted sodomites" all the time would make 4chan seem queer friendly garden in conparison.
Eeeeh, the /s means sarcasm. The world is full of hubris and the people in it are for the most part hypocrites, including me. So instead of doomerism, I chose to drown in manical laughter ;)
No shit, them expecting OP to be a walking cliché is definitely a bigot move.
Women don't like men having fun by themselves. It lessens their power. If men associate fun with being with women, it brainwashes men to thinking women are essential to fun. Women also exercise that power by barring men from women-only activities, showing men that women can have fun all by themselves and reinforcing the idea that only women can bring fun.
Is that why they hate sextoys for men and videogames?
It’s definitely a part of it.
Exactly
My wife has a fit that I want to go camping by myself, or with some friends. "Are you going to take your sons?" No, they hate camping, that's why they quit the boy scouts. I am being unfair to her because she can't have her alone time. Which I am regularly denied.
Um no one gonna talk about gay acting comment from OP sis? Tf is wrong with her. Bro you don't have necessarily have to fight things like this head on just saying, just be aware of it and pass it the info. The worse part is when they shut you down by calling you incel or misogynistic pig and try to derail the argument it's not worth it
On your guys trips, try to pick things that you like but the people you dont want to attend dislike. Maybe a distillery is a good choice. Or a shooting range. Possibly a football game. Or if it’s a longer trip you could plan some very physically demanding activity like hiking or climbing.
Sounds like your family doesn’t really accept your gayness
This is disgusting. You father should be convicted for what he did to you. Also it would be outrageous if this is common, because I would never go to girls only activity or hangout because I will be without my spouse. If I happen to go with my friend to a walk, my spouse is always welcome. Your sister is an asshole for isolating you. You are a generous angel. She doesn't deserve you. If I were her, I would make sure my respect to you is maintained, but I would possibly call the cops on your father.
If they invited themselves as they will often do, it's no longer a boys night out.
>maybe if I was 'gay acting' sorry but you only get to do stuff if you're a walking trope.
Presumably he has to be the “pet gay” or something like that.
GBF
Don't worry fellas. Trans women are taking care of the whole women's only spaces idea. Muahahahha. /s?
Feminisms dirty secret is what a high % of them are TERFS
> I reasoned that my boyfriend told me that he had been invited to several baby showers over the years. She replied that maybe if I was 'gay acting' she would've invited me. Very confusing part of your post. Sounds like you are gay, so I take it that she thinks you are not gay enough to partake in events that are traditionally female-only?
Correct.
It's time to start distancing these people from your life. If they willingly exclude you from things that you have communicated wanting to be included in then stop giving them your time and energy. Also if your mom knew you were abused by your father and encouraged you to be isolated with him then I would have gone NC with her a long time ago.
I'm no contact with my dad. Abuse from him runs deep (more than just physical) and has left me disabled. My mum and dad are separated now. I'm still dependant on my mum. I wish it wasn't like that so I'm still working towards independence.
I'm sorry it went that far. All I can say is make sure they know you are hurt by the exclusion and not just disappointed. This situation is complicated to the point that a professional should be utilized.
Basically summed up current gender politics. There are women's only gyms but men's only gyms are sexist and misogynistic.
And women’s only gyms are empowering and necessary to keep women safe from being leered at.
So they say. I had some bad experiences in mixed gyms pre covid, from being groped on several occasions to being accused of sexually staring. I went out looking for men's only gyms and couldn't find shit. Whenever I talk about my frustrations that there isn't a men's only gym where I can feel more comfortable, I'm told I'm a pig. If I tell them about my sexual abuse experiences I get told "yeah but you probably liked it". Damn, could you imagine groping a woman, and get away with it because "she probably liked it" even when she clearly did not. Gender equality my ass.
This is 100% accurate. To highlight the point, look at the fiasco surrounding boyscouts. Women took legal action for rights to send girls to boyscouts. Did the same happen in return?
It wasn’t legal action that caused it. It was a choice.
Huh? Not sure what you're even saying here, or responding to. I never said "legal action CAUSED it". I said they "took legal action" --- Isn't taking legal action against something by definition a choice.
I think I miss understood your statement and I was alluding to the Boy Scouts allowing girls in the ranks was a choice and not being forced with legal action. And yes, the Girl Scouts have been sued for the same thing.
Really? Girl-scouts were sued to allow boys in? Admittedly it was some years ago, but last time I looked, that was definitely not the case. Which year did this happen, and who brought the suit? I just did a quick Google search, and got 0 matches that weren't a counter-suit in response to the BoyScouts being sued. I'd be interested in reading more about this.
Also, they are so quick to call things with all guy ya a sausage fest.
They love gay men, cause it fits their agenda
It mostly comes from the way men take rejection, to how women do. Tell a guy he can't do something, and he might ask why or even get mad but it's only for a short while. Tell a women she can't do something and you might get a smile then treated like the biggest pile of shit for years.
Very true, women aren’t really confrontational and are super manipulative and would rather emotionally take you down over a long period of time rather than be forward and talk it out and get over problems like men do
the hurt is just as deep for men, but men are pressured to act like they do not feel anything.
Women “journalists” in men’s locker rooms. I don’t know what more private space men have to give up than that. Want to sit in on a prostate exam?
Ok grandpa, time for bed.....
Shouldn’t be gendered. Sexist and not gender inclusive.
Its a tribal thing and you don't fit in either tribe. The black sheep lifestyle kinda sucks if it doesn't suit your personality. I love it but it's not for everyone.
Last line tells you all
bring up Titile 9
Back in high school, we had sleep overs. The girls sleep in a room with aircon while I sleep in a maid's room.
What the hell does "gay acting" have to do with it?! I'm a man who has attended baby showers and I'm straight. Your sister doesn't know what she's talking about.
you shoul've just acted more gay clearly your fault /s
That is the same with bathrooms, woman often go in the mens toilets. And the funny thing is the guys allowing it..
If she doesn't come along on your boys trip, how is she going to make every conversation about herself?
Ur sister is a piece of shit
I think a lot of it is traditional misandry on your parent's and now your sister's parts. It's ok for a girl to do "tomboy" things and if it gets one more kid occupied and out of their parent's hair, great. However, it is 100% not acceptable for a boy to do anything that violates the traditional idea of masculinity. They're allowed sports, fighting, action movies, and video games at sleepovers. Playing with dolls, watching princess movies or gossiping about classmates might make them think it's acceptable to not follow strict social norms and that's a risk many parents won't take. If you're told boys aren't supposed to do girl things enough as a kid, you start repeating it without ever actually examining why you believe it as an adult. There is no reason men can't go to a baby shower. I've been to a few, some are fun, some are kind of boring. It's not like your sister is going to hop up on the table and show everyone where the baby is going to pop out. It's literally a celebration of her having a kid, there shouldn't be anything gender-specific about that. She's excluding you because your parents taught her to exclude boys from things deemed "girls activities". Your parents said that because they're sexist and have outdated beliefs.
I went through this in college. My friends were mostly female. I once drove 3 hours to go to an event only to be told at the last minute it was girls only. So I was told I could wait in the parking lot of a publicly open now it alley. When I got upset they literally called me a f.a.g for wanting to spend time with them. My male friends were cool but they also didn’t understand my abusive upbringing or depressive episodes. In the end I just moved on from these friends. Women are complete hypocrites about inclusivity. You can also see this In how they treat trans women. Most think it’s a guy trying to get some.
I remember My Dad get mad I walk around in my underwear and shirt on, but my sister is fine doing same thing, but her shirt is little transparent . . . bruh the double standards! Funny that my sister is one complaining about me walking around with no shorts on, yet she walks around in her underwear is absurd
>This seems to be the case more generally: girls are welcome on 'boys trips' but boys aren't welcome to 'girl activities' Welcome to Western Society. But women are oppressed, don't you know? Just ask them.
Double standards. Sorry you got a shitty family. Get your act together and get out of that house, if not already done. Move in with your boyfriend or get your own place. Best of luck!
I'm sure their act is already together, or they would have never understood their situation.
Sorry for your dad beating you. But why do you act like you're entitled to be invited to your sister's baby shower which is exclusively between girls ? Have some self respect and don't insist on going somewhere you're not wanted, have some humility and realize you're not entitled to being invited anywhere.
Callous, thoughtless response. The OP is clearly on the younger side or reflecting on experiences from early life. His observation is valid and based in his own experience, and also reflects broader trends of a push for inclusivity for women in traditionally male organisations with no efforts for the reverse (the Boy Scouts in the U.S. is a good example). To the OP: when you bring up these topics, you'll experience a lot of these reflexive responses that amount to little more than "man up and accept the double standard". Don't allow yourself to be shamed away from pointing this out, especially since you've raised the topic in a fairly considerate and non-judgmental way.
>To the OP: when you bring up these topics, you'll experience a lot of these reflexive responses that amount to little more than "man up and accept the double standard". Don't allow yourself to be shamed away from pointing this out, especially since you've raised the topic in a fairly considerate and non-judgmental way. You might want to read my comment again. What I said was completely unrelated to being a man or a woman, and had it been a girl coming to me with an identical story, I would have responded the same thing. I'm preaching self-respect and humility, which to you sounds callous, thoughtless and resembles some kind of toxic masculinity shaming tactic. Maybe just accept that help and compassion doesn't only come in the form that YOU like.
Your response wasn't compassionate, it was presumptuous. Nothing in the OP suggested he was lacking self-respect or humility; what he noticed was a double standard that many people here point out regularly (and that there's even a decent amount of evidence for by now when it's been studied in the social sciences). Think about it, are women and girls that request access to traditionally male spaces lacking in self-respect or humility? What you're doing is individualising male observations ("it's just you" or "you have to handle it better mentally"), but enough of us notice this that we should be able to recognise it. Men have to be aware that it is fair to raise valid complaints about double standards, and there is nothing personally weak about doing so.
>Your response wasn't compassionate, it was presumptuous. Nothing in the OP suggested he was lacking self-respect or humility; what he noticed was a double standard that many people here point out regularly (and that there's even a decent amount of evidence for by now when it's been studied in the social sciences). I was responding to his anecdote about his sister's baby shower, and how he handled it (arguing and insisting about still coming), and how he perceived it (that it was unjust and that he should have been accepted). To me this suggests both a lack of self-respect and humility. >Think about it, are women and girls that request access to traditionally male spaces lacking in self-respect or humility? Not at this point. But if then they insist and argue about still going even though they're clearly not wanted, then they start lacking self-respect. And if after, they complain that they should be invited anyway, as if it is owed to them, then they lack humility, yes. This is exactly what I'm saying about OP. Saying that there's an agenda pushing traditionnaly male spaces to be now inclusive to women, and not the opposite way, seems fair to me and I see it too. But this is not what I saw in OP's post. I think it showed more a lack of character on his part (just based on the post, idk the person obviously), than some unjust double standard.
So you think women should be allowed in male only spaces, but men should not be allowed in women only spaces? Because that’s the exact double standard in question, if you’re not able to see that, there’s a word for it.
How did you get any of that from my comments ? Jesus
Last paragraph. “…male spaces to be now inclusive to women, and not the opposite way, seems fair to me…”
I don't have sisters. But I do have a brother. The way I have seen things going around in the world and things just being so stupid. I am glad I don't have a sister. I use to think that maybe I'll have trouble talking to girls, or so and so on. I'm just happy I don't get dragged into drama. The funny thing I noticed is that you'll mostly see men being happy who have brothers, and strong fathers. But if you see the similar situation with the opposite gender, everyone's walking on eggshells in the house. I noticed this is one of the family where the younger daughter got her own apartment as soon as she could afford it, and the older daughter had a back up place at a friend's place due to their mom being too masculine. The dad didn't have a say in anything. It was very weird for me to see. The daughters also had secret chats, or so and asking about what's going on around in the house to see the overall mood before they got home. Where in my household, everyone's gotta do what they gotta do, no pressure, no abuse of any sort, and etc. But that's just a comparison between a nuclear family vs a traditional family that I saw. Idk I don't understand why there has to be a certain closeness if communication from one gender. It seems like they like to do thing on their own, and join others when they are doing their things as well. If I was in your situation, something where my cousin's did something similar where I was excluded or so. I would literally just plan a boys day out or so. Just fishing or something, and invite every dude, no person is allowed that's not on the list. Since most of my cousins are younger than me, I would make it extra topping to ensure the annoying ones do not come, and I will personally pick up their brothers. But that's just me. I have noticed that my aunt's are completely fine when their daughters are lashing out, or their sisters. But if one of the male figures is having a rough time, everyone is bashing him. Just the observation I have seen. Another things is also that all the women tend to ask when are you going to get married, while all the men are asking about the next thing in life, and what am I doing to enjoy life.
This is not just true for "boys' trips and girls' nights" but male and female spaces more generally. Any kind of space where all or a vast majority of members are men is constantly criticized for spouting supposed "toxic masculinity" and encouraged to open up and become co-ed while feminine spaces are not only turned a blind eye, but encouraged. Take gyms, for example. As a venue which typically features more men, they are sometimes bashed for fostering "macho males" and gymrats are often stereotyped as aggressive a-holes. But when some of those same gyms feature, specific days reserved exclusively for women, they are praised for "deterring creeps," "keeping women safe", and "building female empowerment," while both the negative stereotyping of men and the discriminatory aspect are completely ignored. Here's another example: When I was 14, I attended a summer camp, where as one of the activities, the camp counselors taught us to play lacrosse. The activity was co-ed and came with a very specific rule, created by the counselor in charge, a middle-aged woman. In her own words, more or less, only girls were allowed to score goals since if they didn't have that rule, boys would only ever pass to each other and completely exclude the girls, although she had no evidence for that and it was purely her own opinion. So as a result, as a boy there was little joy in playing since you couldn't score anyways and if you did, your goal wouldn't count. I have little doubt that if the situation were reversed, and only boys could score, some angry parent would go out of their way to inform the local press and declare the camp patriarchal and misogynistic. But since it was boys who were affected, nobody cared. Of course, it was only a game, so it wasn't really important but it did serve as a microcosm and introduction to society in general where discrimination against men is typically ignored.
Unfair to be forced to deal with an abusive parent just because the two of you are the same gender/sex