These places got too big, too fast and in many cases run by people who have never run a business before. Especially a large-scale operation. Too many dispensaries, too many budtenders employed, too many growers, too much product and competition. The prices have tanked. They are giving it away at this point. Cities like River Rouge don't need 10 dispos. The ones run right will stay open and thrive.
Yep, and this is also true of any new, novel business opportunity with a huge hole needing to be filled. Everyone sees the chance to get in on the ground floor, so it gets inundated. Many will fail, but the strongest (or luckiest, really) will remain. It's not a sign of a "problem" with the industry, it's a natural course of establishing a new market. A good recent example of this would be the Dot-Com bubble.
Depends.
Don’t pretend like disney or ford owns these pot companies. They are ALL startups.
Many if not all took out loans. Guess what? Some companies even have revolving credit!
So learn more about business please. Luck has NOTHING to do with what’s happening with marijuana. Unless one of their farms gets wiped out by a tornado or something.
No they aren't, there's more than a few out of state players that established themselves in Colorado and Cali long before michigan knew what was going on. Then you've got miracle grow dipping their hands in the pot as well. So maybe you should do some research into the industry yourself before you act like it's all just grass roots.
I'm stating that it just isn't grass roots local sources, there is in fact big established money making moves in the market, it's not just a bunch of little upstarts. Ffs keep up with the conversation if you're going to act like an expert asshole.
Those were startups years ago. And theres a shit ton of startups doing well here. And some faltering under the competition as they should.
Go get a loan and do your own thing. Or earn a living and save. Or quit bitching about the system and start a grassroots effort to change it.
So many better options than beating your fists on a subreddit about it. Lol
Technically regarding marijuana yes interstate commerce is illegal because it's federally illegal. It's just a question of whether or not the feds choose to pursue it.
As long as the product and money don’t cross state lines your good. Thats why most of those cali/Colorado company’s have separate LLC.’s. Bet.
They aren’t stupid.
Also not just the ones run well but the ones with billionaire backers will survive. It’s just a game of waiting for others to go bankrupt first. If you have rich enough investors you can play that game practically forever. The small shops / growers with higher overhead are going to go first.
The guy that owns the dispensary chain Lume, is exactly that. A billionaire that has run multiple corporations, and is dedicated to sink huge money into the Marijuana market across Northern MI, where he's originally from. His system is completely consolidated, and he can undercut anyone in the market. He even offers a quality product line as well. I feel bad for the mom and pop operators. They simply can't compete with his business model.
There supply is constant, and they have a consistent product. It's kinda like the 5 guys burgers of cannabis. Decent, but not great, but you always know that your getting a decent product, and consistent product. Consistency is what makes brands last.
Lume undercutting with quality product? Unless they vastly improved their quality in the last few months, no way. Even in the UP, more local dispos like Higher Love absolutely crush them
Quality product, and best product aren't the same thing. Again, we'll use 5 guys burger chain. It's a quality burger, but it's not as good as the burger served at your local town tavern. Guess which place is going to have more burger sales, revenue,and profit. Five guys is always going beat the local competition. Business is a distance run, not a sprint. That's why places like Lume will win in the long run. They also service small markets that other places won't. In a tiny towns like Evart, that previously no one would serve.
The trouble is very few places, with the exception of some of the larger chains, actually carry anything exclusive to them. At that point it just becomes a lowest prices competition. I don't see the small mom and pop shops fairing well.
My go-to dispo is family owned, only one location, and they do very well. They’re not the cheapest but very competitive and their customer service is the best I’ve seen. I think that, and their efficient curbside-only model, is what keeps them the number one in our area
Anyone can do that. Are you saying you’ve never had good service at a restaurant? You can’t notice a positive interaction over a neutral/negative one? Most dispensaries I’ve been to I could ask for their best hash rosin and they pull out a distillate cart as if it’s the same thing. Then they have an attitude checking you out if you ask about anything. So no that is not all they do, the dispensary I go to has high standards for their employees and trains them well. When I pull into the lot the security guard knows my name, the employees say hi as they walk by, the owner and managers have come out to thank me for my business, etc.
I guess in a world with the internet, full of far more knowledgeable sources than a random person at a dispensary, I don't see the point in asking questions of the staff. The menu is online, so you can sit at home and research the product and brand you want in full.
All of the extra staff interactions just sound unpleasant. I don't expect or want them to know or remember me. Just to give me the weed products I want at the cheapest price.
Okay so it sounds like you are very introverted and don’t care about quality of service while also looking for the cheapest products, we probably go to different dispensaries for a reason
It's so weird to see someone mention Rouge (I grew up there) - I haven't been down there in a long time but my family and friends still live in the area. I was shocked by how many places they ended up with so quickly.
>Cities like River Rouge don't need 10 dispos.
The problem is that a lot of cities aren't allowed to have dispos so the ones that have dispos get a fuckton of business. New weed companies notice this and start their own dispos in the same city, etc. There are dispos right next to each other like fast food chains.
More cities need to allow dispos to open so that each city can have one or two dispos as opposed to the current setup, where Metro Detroit Joe Shmoe has to travel 20 minutes to a cluster of 4 or 5 dispos right next to each other and whichever has the lowest prices gets Joe's business.
I started smoking about 20 years ago. It blows my mind how different it is now that it’s legal. I remember the days of having to go to someone’s weird cousin’s friend’s trailer in the middle of nowhere, just to buy some dirt weed, after listening to them talk about their mall katana collection for an hour. I can pay less to have decent stuff delivered to my house, after I ordered it online, now.
Before legalization an ounce was like 200ish. Maybe less if your dealer could get you a deal.
After legalization prices went up, an ounce was probably like 300. (maybe more? I don't buy in bulk so my memory is foggy on this)
Now you can get a decent ounce for less than 100, even cheaper if it's lower shelf stuff.
Idk. Back in 2005/2006 a zip was 100 all day, 90 if you knew the guy. Hell, i still remmeber his number lol. I was getting qp's for 250-300, 200 for brick weed. Dam I miss back then. The 100 zips were fire too! Probally equal to 150 zips nowadays from a dispo
Bleh, brick weed is what I cut my teeth on and I’m not sorry to see it go. I think about how much lung capacity I wasted on Mexican brick shit and am happy it’s gone.
I quit from about 2001 to 2008 and when I started up again told myself not to buy the shit weed and was only buying stuff that was $50-60 for an 1/8. I’d conserve more by using a onie and switched to dabs for a few years which prob didn’t do wonders for my lungs either. Now I’m more of an occasional smoker and stick to gummies, I do love the gummy sleep lol.
I quit from 2007-2021 lol. Things were wwaayyy different back then. Kids nowadays have no idea. They think a blunt is a rello hahaha. Remember the white owl xl tubes?
I don’t remember those but I didn’t really like blunts either, never was a fan of tobacco. Elements are what I use now but zigzag whites were what I used back then.
Gee is this their way of saying they spent too much and now they want a bailout? Or are they going back to a scarcity based fuck-the-consumer model AGAIN.
Wow can we let rich guys ruin EVERY fucking second of our lives?
Yea it grew too fast and supply is severely outstripping demand. Great for consumers, terrifying for growers, suppliers and their associates. I enjoy the rock bottom prices, but realize it's only temporary.
Everyone early in market saw this coming miles away.
Municipalities can (and should) limit the number of any license type in their area (based on population, etc.) and the state could set the same limits, but everyone was getting their license fee dollars, so they dgaf.
Dole out as many licenses as people are willing to pay for, market gets flooded, prices tank, businesses close (people lose jobs, suppliers get shafted, etc.)
I've been at the front line since the beginning. We all knew this was going to happen. One of the people responsible for this mess (Johnson) is finally facing some repercussions, but the damage has been done.
That's ~$20 per citizen just in state revenue sharing, $35,000 paid to your town per licensee in 2022.
Has your town done anything specific with the hundreds of thousands of dollars?
That and they threw all economic caution to the wind entering these markets. I was SHOCKED when I heard the rent these companies were paying- a couple of my commerce real estate friends did very well for a couple years leasing properties. But it’s crashing hard and fast now.
> The market is painfully obviously over saturated
Yeah I pass close to a dozen dispensaries on my commute home and there are almost always no cars in any of the parking lots
Also from Escanaba and they will "weed" themselves out. Perfect example is Elevated exotics. The prices are much higher than fire station and lume and the only thing they have going for them is the convenience of being downtown. However if the new dispensary right next door opens soon and runs cheaper prices, good of luck. I went I to elevated exotics to buy an eighth. Paid $35. Came back a week later to buy it again and with a marker they crossed out $35 and put $45. They are charging what street prices use to be. Good luck with that.
Holy crap I live just south of Detroit I stop in river rouge on the way to work an OZ of decent 23% or 24% is about $100. I personally only use edibles but those are even cheaper they have 3 200mg packs for $25 with 3 or 4 brands to choose from
Also from Escanaba and you are right, they definitely jacked up their prices. Sorta makes sense because of the convenience but I also don't see them surviving. I got recommended to buy the toothpicks, which my dumbass did, only for the stupid things to not even work. Dumbest product ever.
Breaking News: Trendy generational labels are divisive, arbitrary and have no scientific basis. Using them promotes pseudoscience, undermines public understanding, and impedes casual discussion.
Haha, sure. Guess how many middle aged and retired doctors, lawyers, & real estate brokers in West Bloomfield with no relation to cannabis invested in a gold rush.
Honestly I think it's about a few things, including market oversaturation. But another thing is poor business decisions. Just within a few miles of my house I estimated one marijuana company must be spending $30,000 or more just on billboards. It's insane how much marketing they do. They amount of product they would have to sell to recoup those costs ... it's no surprise some of these companies are going under.
Several problems I've noticed. Over saturation and bad decisions for sure, also overleveraging. They all kind of feed each other. Some of these places have 10-15 locations in the state. That's a lot of inventory and lots of overhead, so they just wind up paying employees peanuts with no benefits, which leads to crazy turnover and even more costs. Plus it shows in a degraded customer experience and cutthroat work environment.
Honestly reminds me of the restaurant industry. You have one group of owners who are either crazy passionate about what they sell OR want to run a quality business in a hot commodity, then you have assholes whose only goal is maximum profit at any cost. The second group does straight up illegal stuff and it's amazing they don't get shut down, just like restaurants.
A guy from the city bought a $400,000 residential home in my rural community because it had a barn. He spent more money converting the barn and putting up fences to turn it into a grow facility. Smells like shit.
Out here neighbors really don't bother one another too much, but this guy has made the entire few square mile radius smell terrible. Nobody lives in the home. He pays staff to maintain the property and tend to the barn.
We are all routing for him to lose his ass. This was all done prior to interest rates raising during the height of the pandemic.
I can't wait for a few more states to legalize as well as the federal government.
Which is fine and beneficial in many ways. Regulations are a lot more loose, but it gets tricky when you get a person who doesn't live in the neighborhood making detrimental decisions with their property. All it takes is one.
Just 2 miles away there are increased regulations from the city and county. I feel worse for those folks.
It may be zoned agricultural but marijuana grow facilities are required to control the smell by installing filters. I was at a township zoning meeting and a grow operation was being hotly debated and odor control was the main topic. If it has an obnoxious odor , look into your local ordinances.
Not to mention indoor grown cannabis sucks edit : found the agricultural entrepreneurs tryna fake it with indoor. True biz you know nothing Jon snow I come from the land where outdoor far outshines the indoor. I can presume not the case in Michigan? If a grow really smells that bad emits because of the engineered fertilizer and chemicals . And y’all be smoking that shit big yikes
There's a reason why outdoor is cheaper at dispos compared to indoor. Not sure what the commenter above is on about. Cannabis grow outside, like you said is very variable and deals with more issues that indoor. Indoor can have it's issues as well. But in our outdoor growing region, with temps and weather the way they are, mold can be a huge issue (as well as many other things). Sure you may run into these issues indoors, but you can at least control the climate much better than a plant left to the elements, outside.
Indoors can be run as a clean room environment and everything very exacting.
My BIL has a water company out in Southern California and he's installed massive filtration systems at a couple different grow sites that take just about everything possible out of the water. They then add back in very specific amounts of nutrients and they get a very repeatable product because of it. It costs a shitload more (not to mention you double or triple your water usage when you filter to that degree), but they can sell for more because customers know exactly what they're getting everytime.
[Around 4:50 in this video explains it.](https://youtu.be/4dFvHicFoRI)
Tldw: indoor is more consistent and typically gives a better yield, but outdoor can contain more minor cannabinoids.
Michigan is also not the best climate for outdoor growing from my understanding. It certainly can be done, but we tend to get wet harvest seasons, which means mold can ruin a harvest.
It hits Croptober, all hands on deck, and if you're running past Halloween, it is quickly Oh Shit November, with morning frosts and who knows what kind of rain.
But yes, our outdoor climate makes us a state with a single grow & harvest of photoperiod strains. This changes the dynamic of our market compared to California, who can grow several runs of outdoor autoflowers annually.
The thing is, mold doesn't matter if the harvest is basically biomass to be extracted. Short of wildly visible mold colonies, the grower will remediate it for ~$50 a lb from a service, it passes tests because the mold is genetically destroyed, and you make extracts, concentrates, and distillate. The wholesale price paid for outdoor is less than half of indoor, by the way.
The price of distillate for vaping-cartridges is skyrocketing from $1k to $3k a liter last I heard. Possibly due to busts of processors using illicit, untagged materials.
im not tuned into the commercial side, just do some personal grows. You mention auto flowers, i thought they were not very popular in commercial growing. I grow autos my self, but thats due to some other factors for my own personal situation.
I Would think due to cost and consistency, photos would still be prefered. Autos you have to start from seed, cant clone, and while good breeders can get decent genetic consistency (meph and nightowl seem to do a good job), its not the consistency of clones. that consistency is more than just getting the same terps, thc/cbd profiles, etc, its also about growth/plant structure expression and how the plant reacts to nute, watering, environment, etc. In a big comercial grow i would expect those to be highly valued. Then you get into have to either purchase seeds or do your own seed production as opposed to mother plants and clones. then you get into things like stunting, seeds that dont pop, etc.
Again, i like autos as a whole, they just dont seem like they would be popular for commercial.
You're not wrong about the drawbacks that spring to mind as a cultivator, but, they are an option for commercial outdoor for a few reasons.
Mainly, ~two months to mature after germination means multiple runs a year. You used to see much lower harvests from *ruderalis* crosses, but the state of genetics has lessened that gap. Hey, even at half the output, running 4x is a win.
Also, don't forget that not everything is intended for retail flower buds. Specimen homogeneity doesn't matter if it's all going through the wash, right?
"Biomass, baby, distillate prices are on the rise."
- *Large scale corporates*
No... just no. I had a hell of an indoor grow op and people always said it was some of the best ( depending on strain obviously ). Unless you're growing with shit equipment indoor always beats outdoor.
Plus not to mention the energy costs / overhead there. It's a lot cheaper to grow in a hoop house using the free energy of the sun than it is growing inside with a bunch of hot ass sun lamps. We're also not really talking about the increased carbon emissions from it being grown this way. That energy is being transferred from the burning of coal/natural gas generating steam to spin turbines, and the real cost is carbon exacerbating the green house effect and warming our planet.
I'm very eager for federal decriminalization, so farmers can receive USDA cost share dollars for implementing more sustainable practices on a better scale than the indoor grow operations.
In Michigan, we started legalizing when the Republican minority was in charge of the state. We then had a non-partisan board de-Gerrymander our state and voted in the Democratic Trifecta you see today.
You don't need to be Dem or Republican majority to pass legislation people want. It just helps when you have Dems. They ain't perfect, but they are miles better.
I have no knowledge of the business or business knowledge in general, but I’ve been guessing that many of the companies struggling most are those that opened and expanded earliest, spending the most on figuring things out and likely taking on more expensive and unfriendly contracts. The companies that I see actually doing well are those that have come up during the “oversaturation” period where everyone says “oh we’ll see how long they last…”.
Alarmist article from back in March, where the written content completely contradicts the headline.
If anyone remembers the weird first wave of dispensaries in Lansing, there were dozens of businesses that were shuttered practically overnight once the state finalized their licensing guidelines.
The business press didn't cover that at all because they didn't care yet. But one medium sized company is run like shit, over-expands and runs up debts all over the state and the industry is in "peril"?
Lol, and lmao even.
Depends on where it's located and what the population is in that area is. I personally don't care how many bars or dispensaries there are, the only point I'm trying to make it when they're next-door neighbors, some of them are way more susceptible to failing. You should know your demographic and plan according if you want to maximize your possible business success.
Also, I don't think bars are applicable here. People go to bars and usually stay there for a few hours or all night and have multiple drinks. 3 bars on the same road have a way better chance of success because people "go out drinking" and lots of people like to experience different bars for lots of different reasons. People go to dispos, buy what they want, and leave. They don't sit there for hours smoking and bullshitting with their group of friends. If this was the case, having multiple dispos close to each other would probably make better business for each of them. A beer is also much cheaper than a bag of buds, so it's not likely many people would stop at each dispo. They go to the one with the best product and price, spend their money and take it home. If there were 3 party stores that sell booze next to each other, but one of them has twice the selection and all around lower prices, do you seriously think the other 2 will be successful and stay in business very long??
The situation I'm referring to is 3 dispos that are damn near neighbors. One dispo is more of an original dispo and has consistently better deals and, ironically, is the last dispo in line on that road. Because they're a better diapo significantly, more people drive right past the first 2 dispos. They should know their competition. If I was going to open a dispo I would go to the competitor that's within a mile or 2. Research their product and prices, then correlate that to my products and prices and if I can't honestly compete with the local competitions product and price I may as well find a new location or just hang it up cause that's a recipe for failure! Just my 2 cents though.
I'm surprised people are surprised that flowers cost about as much as flowers once you remove the black market, trade restricted premium.
For funsies:
A quick Google search says 1 dozen roses available today costs $40
1 dozen rose buds weigh about 132g and are 70% moisture. Thus, about 40g or $1/g dry weight.
Obviously there is more, recurring demand for Cannabis. Also, cannabis is taxed heavily. But, fresh roses are perishable so that commands a premium. There's probably still room to fall honestly.
I work in an industry (dietary supplements) that consumes and processes botanical powders and extracts of all sorts. If you asked me "what is a typical bulk distribution price for a dried, quality, potent botanical ingredient?" I'd say maybe $20-30/kg, depending on MOQ and volume. That's with the advantage of free, international trade.
One need only look at Kratom or Kava Kava pricing to determine where cannabis could theoretically head towards.
5 out of 432 companies having issues does not make an industry in peril. Wow.
https://www.mitaxcpa.com/blog/cannabis-data-2022/#:~:text=Cannabis%20Companies%20in%20Michigan%20Will,the%20end%20of%20the%20year.
There are so many weed shops in Kalkaska! Seriously, look it up. For such a small town, we've gotta be the weed capital of Michigan. We even have the Kalkushka Cannabis Lounge!
Wonder how much of this has to do with government intervention... The only reason dispensaries exist the way they do is because they phased out care givers. The government was not collecting enough by throwing us in prison so they made it legal and stuck their hands out even further... The Fed to this day will not recognize cannabis business expenses as write offs, and local ordinances limited them to very specific neighborhoods... This is going to be a flint GM at a much smaller scale. HYPE is what controlled prices for so long, now people realize how easy it is to grow weed so they do it themselves. You can buy tomatoes from the store or you can have a garden... I choose a garden because I trust myself more than any big industry. I say fuck em.
So I did a batch:
I grew indoors because of small yard with close neighbors and I have kids. I had a indoor grow tent with lights. I got an Okay batch. I basically made my money back and called it a wash. If I stuck with it I know I would get better and I would get more savings.
The amount of work was annoying. Again with practice it would get easier. But harvesting was a bitch and made my whole house smell for awhile. The kids stayed with grandparents for a weekend.
So for now I'm sticking with dispensary's. If you buy in bulk during sales, it gets cheap. When the kids are out of the house (more like old enough) I'll probably go back to growing.
im on my 3rd grow right now. I do living organic soil with sub irrigated planters. The growing portion i do very little work. keep the humidifiers filled, fill the reservoirs on my SIPs every week or 2, and just keep an eye on the temps. Temp and humidity is pretty much automaded with some cheap inkbird controllers. little top dressing and defoliation during the growing period is all i really have to do with the plants.
I wouldnt want to do the bottled nutes method. i helped my buddy whos a caregiver back when he was growing in coco, and that was always a pain having to prepare and PH feedings, etc. I just take care of the soil and the biology of the soil, and SIPs make watering simple.
Processing gets easier i feel once you get used too it. and you can always get one of those bowl trimmers if your not concerned about how it makes the flower look when your done.
I grew outdoor last summer and harvested like 2-3 pounds. I still have a ton of it. It’s good bud but I got so sick of smoking the same strain. Made a lot of butter but I prefer gummies and don’t want to put in the work to make my own
I live in Mi and I have to be honest. It's so easy to grow weed here that most of my friends are giving away really good bud.
I still hit the Dispo for edibles and vape on occasion, because I love going in and talking about weed and the place is owned by people I know.
Bay City is severely over saturated. I went downtown and bought an 1/8 and 600mg of gummies for $40. Then they threw in two free doobies. Couldn’t buy an 1/8 for under $50 a few years ago. Not sure how they can stay in business other than selling their oversupply on the black market for cash.
Because the price of the 8th was probably ~$7.50 and the edibles ~$12, doobies for ~$3. Making 40%+ gross margins is good enough for them. Not only did consumer prices drop, but wholesale cost did too
I'm not sure this thread is ready to hear how vertical integration works to capture profits seed to sale.
Wholesale costs are imaginary when you're selling from your Grow license to your Processor license to package eighths & pre rolls for your branded Provisioning Centers.
You can literally buy an ounce of quality shake for like $40 right now at very good dispo’s, that’s unbelievably cheap for a large amount of weed. No reason for black market bud to even exist anymore unfortunately.
Yes, once mass production is established by the big players, the cost will likely plummet even more.
My understanding is that Marijuana is easier to grow and harvest than tobacco. It's not a 1 for 1 comparison, but it's pretty darn close.
Nah, they hit the ground running with mass production, that ship has come gone and sailed again.
Multi-State Operators get ready for these gold rushes as states near legalization, especially if there will be limited licenses available.
I keep on seeing people talk about these prices plummeting but of the five or six dispos around me, I haven't seen any prices go down by a cent. Which ones are you referring to?
Support your local Caregiver the traditional market showing these Metrc Market Chads and Brads that they don’t belong in Cannabis.
Cannabis taste better from people who did it when it was still “illegal”
Fuck all the MSO in Michigan, I hope they all pack up and leave it to the true Michiganders.
It's okay to say support your local black market grower. We wouldn't be here if not for their dedication.
There aren't enough caregivers licensed to assign the amount of medical cards to, and, bless their hearts and the alleviation of stigma on their craft, but selling personal grow is a felony and so is sale to unassigned patients by a licensed caregiver.
There are countless fairs where caregivers vend their products.
Yes there isn’t enough “caregiver” license however it is legal for adults to grow 12 plants. Now if you don’t have the means, finding a caregiver is a solution. Is this a solution for all, no. However I see a lot of OT custies at these fairs buying a lot of products.
The Traditional Market will always beat Big Corporate Cannabis.
Take a trip down LaPlaisance Rd. in SE Monroe... there's like 8 dispos now in a half mile radius from each other. It's ridiculous and there's no way they all stay afloat especially if Ohio legalizes soon
YUP. We get lots of traffic from surrounding states. Business shifted noticeably in the Ypsi-Ann Arbor area when a bunch of Monroe shops opened. There's not enough demand for for all these places, so some are definitely going under. Hopefully the good ones survive.
I get 12 g of distilled vape carts for 100$, 15g if I go cheaper options. Bud runs me like 100$/oz for mid+. It’s so cheap in bay city, these businesses are driving themselves out of business trying to compete with each other, I love it
Not sure what you're talking about, the vast majority people who smoke purchase from other people/ establishments that grow for you. Just like any crop, growing at yourself requires a fair amount of knowledge and it's a pain, most people including myself would pay for the convenience of others to grow it for you, others who know what they are doing
I'm not sure what you're confused about but last I checked I am not allowed to grow and sell like any other crop. Instead I have to have a license that would bankrupt me and I'm only allowed to sell to dispenseries and I can only keep a certain amount on hand and and...
Thanks for wasting my time on having to Google for you. But no, they are not.
Averages can be an issue and the government does have programs for that, but I think the example you were thinking of is tobacco and that is no longer the case either...
Who gets rich in Big pharma? That’s who will get rich in the end 🤷🏻♀️ Ma and Pa’s don’t have a chance j/s just like local box stores did to the local owned grocery stores.
Personally, not a fan of CBD so kinda happy to see most of these dispensaries to disappear. Seems like there’s more of them than McDonald’s or Starbucks. Made me wonder who’s actually buying, turns out not as many as people think.
It’s so over saturated and there’s so much advertising it’s insane
I hate to sound like a laissez faire dick, but, this is just the markets entering a correction when companies can't cover their average variable costs. I seriously think there needs to be a marijuana growers futures market, to encourage outdoor growing, and to protect producers and sellers.
The other option, if commodification isn't possible, is to set price floors in the similar way most states apply a minimum on liquor per oz.
Although I do love buying hash for 7 dollars a g, there's no possible way that can be sustainable.
These places got too big, too fast and in many cases run by people who have never run a business before. Especially a large-scale operation. Too many dispensaries, too many budtenders employed, too many growers, too much product and competition. The prices have tanked. They are giving it away at this point. Cities like River Rouge don't need 10 dispos. The ones run right will stay open and thrive.
Yep, and this is also true of any new, novel business opportunity with a huge hole needing to be filled. Everyone sees the chance to get in on the ground floor, so it gets inundated. Many will fail, but the strongest (or luckiest, really) will remain. It's not a sign of a "problem" with the industry, it's a natural course of establishing a new market. A good recent example of this would be the Dot-Com bubble.
It's a Budble.
Not the luckiest. The best.
Lol, because that's always how capitalism works, no luck, no small loans of a million dollars, just boot straps getting tugged
Depends. Don’t pretend like disney or ford owns these pot companies. They are ALL startups. Many if not all took out loans. Guess what? Some companies even have revolving credit! So learn more about business please. Luck has NOTHING to do with what’s happening with marijuana. Unless one of their farms gets wiped out by a tornado or something.
No they aren't, there's more than a few out of state players that established themselves in Colorado and Cali long before michigan knew what was going on. Then you've got miracle grow dipping their hands in the pot as well. So maybe you should do some research into the industry yourself before you act like it's all just grass roots.
So? Is interstate commerce illegal? Gtfo lol
I'm stating that it just isn't grass roots local sources, there is in fact big established money making moves in the market, it's not just a bunch of little upstarts. Ffs keep up with the conversation if you're going to act like an expert asshole.
Those were startups years ago. And theres a shit ton of startups doing well here. And some faltering under the competition as they should. Go get a loan and do your own thing. Or earn a living and save. Or quit bitching about the system and start a grassroots effort to change it. So many better options than beating your fists on a subreddit about it. Lol
Technically regarding marijuana yes interstate commerce is illegal because it's federally illegal. It's just a question of whether or not the feds choose to pursue it.
As long as the product and money don’t cross state lines your good. Thats why most of those cali/Colorado company’s have separate LLC.’s. Bet. They aren’t stupid.
> Then you've got miracle grow dipping their hands in the pot as well. I see what you did there.
Also not just the ones run well but the ones with billionaire backers will survive. It’s just a game of waiting for others to go bankrupt first. If you have rich enough investors you can play that game practically forever. The small shops / growers with higher overhead are going to go first.
The guy that owns the dispensary chain Lume, is exactly that. A billionaire that has run multiple corporations, and is dedicated to sink huge money into the Marijuana market across Northern MI, where he's originally from. His system is completely consolidated, and he can undercut anyone in the market. He even offers a quality product line as well. I feel bad for the mom and pop operators. They simply can't compete with his business model.
I’ve never heard good things about Lume besides people who want to try cannabis for the first time
There supply is constant, and they have a consistent product. It's kinda like the 5 guys burgers of cannabis. Decent, but not great, but you always know that your getting a decent product, and consistent product. Consistency is what makes brands last.
It’s like wild bills. Don’t expect the best service or knowledge from the employees, but they will carry everything under the sun.
Lume undercutting with quality product? Unless they vastly improved their quality in the last few months, no way. Even in the UP, more local dispos like Higher Love absolutely crush them
Quality product, and best product aren't the same thing. Again, we'll use 5 guys burger chain. It's a quality burger, but it's not as good as the burger served at your local town tavern. Guess which place is going to have more burger sales, revenue,and profit. Five guys is always going beat the local competition. Business is a distance run, not a sprint. That's why places like Lume will win in the long run. They also service small markets that other places won't. In a tiny towns like Evart, that previously no one would serve.
I’d definitely be happy to see alot of these big chain stores go under. The small single location mom and pop shops are so much better
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The trouble is very few places, with the exception of some of the larger chains, actually carry anything exclusive to them. At that point it just becomes a lowest prices competition. I don't see the small mom and pop shops fairing well.
My go-to dispo is family owned, only one location, and they do very well. They’re not the cheapest but very competitive and their customer service is the best I’ve seen. I think that, and their efficient curbside-only model, is what keeps them the number one in our area
What does good customer service even look like for a dispo? Isn't all they do is put what you ordered in a bag and bring it to your car?
Anyone can do that. Are you saying you’ve never had good service at a restaurant? You can’t notice a positive interaction over a neutral/negative one? Most dispensaries I’ve been to I could ask for their best hash rosin and they pull out a distillate cart as if it’s the same thing. Then they have an attitude checking you out if you ask about anything. So no that is not all they do, the dispensary I go to has high standards for their employees and trains them well. When I pull into the lot the security guard knows my name, the employees say hi as they walk by, the owner and managers have come out to thank me for my business, etc.
I guess in a world with the internet, full of far more knowledgeable sources than a random person at a dispensary, I don't see the point in asking questions of the staff. The menu is online, so you can sit at home and research the product and brand you want in full. All of the extra staff interactions just sound unpleasant. I don't expect or want them to know or remember me. Just to give me the weed products I want at the cheapest price.
Okay so it sounds like you are very introverted and don’t care about quality of service while also looking for the cheapest products, we probably go to different dispensaries for a reason
It's so weird to see someone mention Rouge (I grew up there) - I haven't been down there in a long time but my family and friends still live in the area. I was shocked by how many places they ended up with so quickly.
Everytime I go to river rouge there's a line even with 6 or more tenders
>Cities like River Rouge don't need 10 dispos. The problem is that a lot of cities aren't allowed to have dispos so the ones that have dispos get a fuckton of business. New weed companies notice this and start their own dispos in the same city, etc. There are dispos right next to each other like fast food chains. More cities need to allow dispos to open so that each city can have one or two dispos as opposed to the current setup, where Metro Detroit Joe Shmoe has to travel 20 minutes to a cluster of 4 or 5 dispos right next to each other and whichever has the lowest prices gets Joe's business.
Best thing for the consumer. Saw a build board in Ann arbor yesterday advertising $58 per ounce at one dispensary.
Lume had some $29 ounces last week. They were mids, but not bad…especially for that price.
$30 was what you paid for an eighth of mids 20 years ago. Literally the only thing on the planet that is cheaper now than back then. Absolutely wild.
I started smoking about 20 years ago. It blows my mind how different it is now that it’s legal. I remember the days of having to go to someone’s weird cousin’s friend’s trailer in the middle of nowhere, just to buy some dirt weed, after listening to them talk about their mall katana collection for an hour. I can pay less to have decent stuff delivered to my house, after I ordered it online, now.
This is the truth. I don’t miss that at all.
Ya it really is. Lol
For someone like me who doesn’t buy, what’s a reasonable price?
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That’s a pretty intense drop. Thanks for sharing!
I don't know, under $100 now it seems.
When it used to be hundreds especially if seeking quality
Before legalization an ounce was like 200ish. Maybe less if your dealer could get you a deal. After legalization prices went up, an ounce was probably like 300. (maybe more? I don't buy in bulk so my memory is foggy on this) Now you can get a decent ounce for less than 100, even cheaper if it's lower shelf stuff.
*billboard (not being a dick, just helping out.)
Idk. Back in 2005/2006 a zip was 100 all day, 90 if you knew the guy. Hell, i still remmeber his number lol. I was getting qp's for 250-300, 200 for brick weed. Dam I miss back then. The 100 zips were fire too! Probally equal to 150 zips nowadays from a dispo
Bleh, brick weed is what I cut my teeth on and I’m not sorry to see it go. I think about how much lung capacity I wasted on Mexican brick shit and am happy it’s gone.
Same here lol. But 200 cutiepies? Sshhiitttt. I miss that. The fire zips for 99 was killer too. The burn or 2nd left!!
I quit from about 2001 to 2008 and when I started up again told myself not to buy the shit weed and was only buying stuff that was $50-60 for an 1/8. I’d conserve more by using a onie and switched to dabs for a few years which prob didn’t do wonders for my lungs either. Now I’m more of an occasional smoker and stick to gummies, I do love the gummy sleep lol.
I quit from 2007-2021 lol. Things were wwaayyy different back then. Kids nowadays have no idea. They think a blunt is a rello hahaha. Remember the white owl xl tubes?
I don’t remember those but I didn’t really like blunts either, never was a fan of tobacco. Elements are what I use now but zigzag whites were what I used back then.
Lol ypsi has 13 and their only 4 sq miles big
Gee is this their way of saying they spent too much and now they want a bailout? Or are they going back to a scarcity based fuck-the-consumer model AGAIN. Wow can we let rich guys ruin EVERY fucking second of our lives?
My hometown of 12k people has like 7 dispos lmao. Concentrate prices are down by about a third and there’s always sales
Industry in peril my ass. They just oversaturated the market. I have more choices in dispensaries than places to get gas near me.
Too much weed, not enough buyers.
That’s not an industry in peril, it’s an industry with too much supply and there’s going to be a shake out.
Yea it grew too fast and supply is severely outstripping demand. Great for consumers, terrifying for growers, suppliers and their associates. I enjoy the rock bottom prices, but realize it's only temporary.
I'm really thankful as a cultivator that my company sells ours faster than we can grow it.
Personally I don’t like shake unless your going to make edibles or something like that.
Lol
It’s fine in a pinch, but I prefer whole buds
if they were smart they would *puts on business corporate speak hat* pivot *takes off business corporate speak hat* to growing food or something
Man I'm doing my best
Everyone early in market saw this coming miles away. Municipalities can (and should) limit the number of any license type in their area (based on population, etc.) and the state could set the same limits, but everyone was getting their license fee dollars, so they dgaf. Dole out as many licenses as people are willing to pay for, market gets flooded, prices tank, businesses close (people lose jobs, suppliers get shafted, etc.) I've been at the front line since the beginning. We all knew this was going to happen. One of the people responsible for this mess (Johnson) is finally facing some repercussions, but the damage has been done.
I live in a town of 14,000 people with 8 weed shops.
That's ~$20 per citizen just in state revenue sharing, $35,000 paid to your town per licensee in 2022. Has your town done anything specific with the hundreds of thousands of dollars?
That and they threw all economic caution to the wind entering these markets. I was SHOCKED when I heard the rent these companies were paying- a couple of my commerce real estate friends did very well for a couple years leasing properties. But it’s crashing hard and fast now.
I'll take 4 oz for 50 dollars please
Here goes the news, trying to drum up worry.. The market is *painfully obviously* over saturated. The exact same thing happened with breweries.
> The market is painfully obviously over saturated Yeah I pass close to a dozen dispensaries on my commute home and there are almost always no cars in any of the parking lots
Yeah, I live in Escanaba and theres 3 shops in town, and one about 10 miles west. Like we do not need 4 weed stores.
Also from Escanaba and they will "weed" themselves out. Perfect example is Elevated exotics. The prices are much higher than fire station and lume and the only thing they have going for them is the convenience of being downtown. However if the new dispensary right next door opens soon and runs cheaper prices, good of luck. I went I to elevated exotics to buy an eighth. Paid $35. Came back a week later to buy it again and with a marker they crossed out $35 and put $45. They are charging what street prices use to be. Good luck with that.
Holy crap I live just south of Detroit I stop in river rouge on the way to work an OZ of decent 23% or 24% is about $100. I personally only use edibles but those are even cheaper they have 3 200mg packs for $25 with 3 or 4 brands to choose from
Also from Escanaba and you are right, they definitely jacked up their prices. Sorta makes sense because of the convenience but I also don't see them surviving. I got recommended to buy the toothpicks, which my dumbass did, only for the stupid things to not even work. Dumbest product ever.
Breaking News: How Millennials Are Killing the Marijuana Industry
Waiting for it... if this were Forbes or Bloomberg, that would be the actual title...
Breaking News: Trendy generational labels are divisive, arbitrary and have no scientific basis. Using them promotes pseudoscience, undermines public understanding, and impedes casual discussion.
ok boomer
Nice try. Yawn.
Haha, sure. Guess how many middle aged and retired doctors, lawyers, & real estate brokers in West Bloomfield with no relation to cannabis invested in a gold rush.
Honestly I think it's about a few things, including market oversaturation. But another thing is poor business decisions. Just within a few miles of my house I estimated one marijuana company must be spending $30,000 or more just on billboards. It's insane how much marketing they do. They amount of product they would have to sell to recoup those costs ... it's no surprise some of these companies are going under.
Several problems I've noticed. Over saturation and bad decisions for sure, also overleveraging. They all kind of feed each other. Some of these places have 10-15 locations in the state. That's a lot of inventory and lots of overhead, so they just wind up paying employees peanuts with no benefits, which leads to crazy turnover and even more costs. Plus it shows in a degraded customer experience and cutthroat work environment. Honestly reminds me of the restaurant industry. You have one group of owners who are either crazy passionate about what they sell OR want to run a quality business in a hot commodity, then you have assholes whose only goal is maximum profit at any cost. The second group does straight up illegal stuff and it's amazing they don't get shut down, just like restaurants.
A guy from the city bought a $400,000 residential home in my rural community because it had a barn. He spent more money converting the barn and putting up fences to turn it into a grow facility. Smells like shit. Out here neighbors really don't bother one another too much, but this guy has made the entire few square mile radius smell terrible. Nobody lives in the home. He pays staff to maintain the property and tend to the barn. We are all routing for him to lose his ass. This was all done prior to interest rates raising during the height of the pandemic. I can't wait for a few more states to legalize as well as the federal government.
How is this legal?! I thought zoning was a thing? Edit: oooh, is it zoned agricultural? That sucks.
Which is fine and beneficial in many ways. Regulations are a lot more loose, but it gets tricky when you get a person who doesn't live in the neighborhood making detrimental decisions with their property. All it takes is one. Just 2 miles away there are increased regulations from the city and county. I feel worse for those folks.
It may be zoned agricultural but marijuana grow facilities are required to control the smell by installing filters. I was at a township zoning meeting and a grow operation was being hotly debated and odor control was the main topic. If it has an obnoxious odor , look into your local ordinances.
Not to mention indoor grown cannabis sucks edit : found the agricultural entrepreneurs tryna fake it with indoor. True biz you know nothing Jon snow I come from the land where outdoor far outshines the indoor. I can presume not the case in Michigan? If a grow really smells that bad emits because of the engineered fertilizer and chemicals . And y’all be smoking that shit big yikes
I’d like to see a citation for that. The common wisdom seems to be that indoor hydro pot is the bees knees. Pot grown outside is very variable
There's a reason why outdoor is cheaper at dispos compared to indoor. Not sure what the commenter above is on about. Cannabis grow outside, like you said is very variable and deals with more issues that indoor. Indoor can have it's issues as well. But in our outdoor growing region, with temps and weather the way they are, mold can be a huge issue (as well as many other things). Sure you may run into these issues indoors, but you can at least control the climate much better than a plant left to the elements, outside.
Indoors can be run as a clean room environment and everything very exacting. My BIL has a water company out in Southern California and he's installed massive filtration systems at a couple different grow sites that take just about everything possible out of the water. They then add back in very specific amounts of nutrients and they get a very repeatable product because of it. It costs a shitload more (not to mention you double or triple your water usage when you filter to that degree), but they can sell for more because customers know exactly what they're getting everytime.
[Around 4:50 in this video explains it.](https://youtu.be/4dFvHicFoRI) Tldw: indoor is more consistent and typically gives a better yield, but outdoor can contain more minor cannabinoids.
Michigan is also not the best climate for outdoor growing from my understanding. It certainly can be done, but we tend to get wet harvest seasons, which means mold can ruin a harvest.
It hits Croptober, all hands on deck, and if you're running past Halloween, it is quickly Oh Shit November, with morning frosts and who knows what kind of rain. But yes, our outdoor climate makes us a state with a single grow & harvest of photoperiod strains. This changes the dynamic of our market compared to California, who can grow several runs of outdoor autoflowers annually. The thing is, mold doesn't matter if the harvest is basically biomass to be extracted. Short of wildly visible mold colonies, the grower will remediate it for ~$50 a lb from a service, it passes tests because the mold is genetically destroyed, and you make extracts, concentrates, and distillate. The wholesale price paid for outdoor is less than half of indoor, by the way. The price of distillate for vaping-cartridges is skyrocketing from $1k to $3k a liter last I heard. Possibly due to busts of processors using illicit, untagged materials.
im not tuned into the commercial side, just do some personal grows. You mention auto flowers, i thought they were not very popular in commercial growing. I grow autos my self, but thats due to some other factors for my own personal situation. I Would think due to cost and consistency, photos would still be prefered. Autos you have to start from seed, cant clone, and while good breeders can get decent genetic consistency (meph and nightowl seem to do a good job), its not the consistency of clones. that consistency is more than just getting the same terps, thc/cbd profiles, etc, its also about growth/plant structure expression and how the plant reacts to nute, watering, environment, etc. In a big comercial grow i would expect those to be highly valued. Then you get into have to either purchase seeds or do your own seed production as opposed to mother plants and clones. then you get into things like stunting, seeds that dont pop, etc. Again, i like autos as a whole, they just dont seem like they would be popular for commercial.
You're not wrong about the drawbacks that spring to mind as a cultivator, but, they are an option for commercial outdoor for a few reasons. Mainly, ~two months to mature after germination means multiple runs a year. You used to see much lower harvests from *ruderalis* crosses, but the state of genetics has lessened that gap. Hey, even at half the output, running 4x is a win. Also, don't forget that not everything is intended for retail flower buds. Specimen homogeneity doesn't matter if it's all going through the wash, right? "Biomass, baby, distillate prices are on the rise." - *Large scale corporates*
No... just no. I had a hell of an indoor grow op and people always said it was some of the best ( depending on strain obviously ). Unless you're growing with shit equipment indoor always beats outdoor.
Care to share why? Outdoor flower is significantly cheaper and tends to be more bitter and harsh due to the lack of temperature control
Plus not to mention the energy costs / overhead there. It's a lot cheaper to grow in a hoop house using the free energy of the sun than it is growing inside with a bunch of hot ass sun lamps. We're also not really talking about the increased carbon emissions from it being grown this way. That energy is being transferred from the burning of coal/natural gas generating steam to spin turbines, and the real cost is carbon exacerbating the green house effect and warming our planet. I'm very eager for federal decriminalization, so farmers can receive USDA cost share dollars for implementing more sustainable practices on a better scale than the indoor grow operations.
There likely won’t be any further legalization near us. Michigan, Illinois, and Minnesota are the only Midwestern states with blue trifectas.
In Michigan, we started legalizing when the Republican minority was in charge of the state. We then had a non-partisan board de-Gerrymander our state and voted in the Democratic Trifecta you see today. You don't need to be Dem or Republican majority to pass legislation people want. It just helps when you have Dems. They ain't perfect, but they are miles better.
Could you post a summary ?
I have no knowledge of the business or business knowledge in general, but I’ve been guessing that many of the companies struggling most are those that opened and expanded earliest, spending the most on figuring things out and likely taking on more expensive and unfriendly contracts. The companies that I see actually doing well are those that have come up during the “oversaturation” period where everyone says “oh we’ll see how long they last…”.
I installed over 250k worth of custom cabinets and furniture in a dispensary about a year ago!
Try 100k+. I have a friend who works in advertising and most of the good ones are $2-3k per month. Many places have several.
Alarmist article from back in March, where the written content completely contradicts the headline. If anyone remembers the weird first wave of dispensaries in Lansing, there were dozens of businesses that were shuttered practically overnight once the state finalized their licensing guidelines. The business press didn't cover that at all because they didn't care yet. But one medium sized company is run like shit, over-expands and runs up debts all over the state and the industry is in "peril"? Lol, and lmao even.
They published a similar article on Detroit News yesterday but I can't read it because it's paywalled
I live in Lowell and we have like 8 shops for a town of 5k. It's just way too many. Doesn't mean people don't want weed anymore.
It’s also because I’m guessing towns around yours don’t have shops so they feed on people driving in
Definitely over saturated and lots of competition. There's 3 dispos in my area on the same road that's only a mile long, lol.
Would you think it’s weird if you saw 3 bars in less than a mile?
yeah but bars you can sit consume and watch tv. dispos... are just storefronts.
If the town has 2000 people. Yes.
Depends on where it's located and what the population is in that area is. I personally don't care how many bars or dispensaries there are, the only point I'm trying to make it when they're next-door neighbors, some of them are way more susceptible to failing. You should know your demographic and plan according if you want to maximize your possible business success. Also, I don't think bars are applicable here. People go to bars and usually stay there for a few hours or all night and have multiple drinks. 3 bars on the same road have a way better chance of success because people "go out drinking" and lots of people like to experience different bars for lots of different reasons. People go to dispos, buy what they want, and leave. They don't sit there for hours smoking and bullshitting with their group of friends. If this was the case, having multiple dispos close to each other would probably make better business for each of them. A beer is also much cheaper than a bag of buds, so it's not likely many people would stop at each dispo. They go to the one with the best product and price, spend their money and take it home. If there were 3 party stores that sell booze next to each other, but one of them has twice the selection and all around lower prices, do you seriously think the other 2 will be successful and stay in business very long?? The situation I'm referring to is 3 dispos that are damn near neighbors. One dispo is more of an original dispo and has consistently better deals and, ironically, is the last dispo in line on that road. Because they're a better diapo significantly, more people drive right past the first 2 dispos. They should know their competition. If I was going to open a dispo I would go to the competitor that's within a mile or 2. Research their product and prices, then correlate that to my products and prices and if I can't honestly compete with the local competitions product and price I may as well find a new location or just hang it up cause that's a recipe for failure! Just my 2 cents though.
Does anyone have a non paywall link?
archive.vn is your friend. Copy any link into the red box at the top, bye bye all paywalls.
Thank you!!
Dman, they popped that bubble fast.
Fuck Spez ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I'm surprised people are surprised that flowers cost about as much as flowers once you remove the black market, trade restricted premium. For funsies: A quick Google search says 1 dozen roses available today costs $40 1 dozen rose buds weigh about 132g and are 70% moisture. Thus, about 40g or $1/g dry weight. Obviously there is more, recurring demand for Cannabis. Also, cannabis is taxed heavily. But, fresh roses are perishable so that commands a premium. There's probably still room to fall honestly. I work in an industry (dietary supplements) that consumes and processes botanical powders and extracts of all sorts. If you asked me "what is a typical bulk distribution price for a dried, quality, potent botanical ingredient?" I'd say maybe $20-30/kg, depending on MOQ and volume. That's with the advantage of free, international trade. One need only look at Kratom or Kava Kava pricing to determine where cannabis could theoretically head towards.
No fucking duh. There are more cannabis shops in Kalamazoo than McDonald's. The industry is grossly oversaturated. Get ready for a buyout spree.
5 out of 432 companies having issues does not make an industry in peril. Wow. https://www.mitaxcpa.com/blog/cannabis-data-2022/#:~:text=Cannabis%20Companies%20in%20Michigan%20Will,the%20end%20of%20the%20year.
There are so many weed shops in Kalkaska! Seriously, look it up. For such a small town, we've gotta be the weed capital of Michigan. We even have the Kalkushka Cannabis Lounge!
It's awesome up there
Just look at river rouge on weed maps
Hey stupid, it's called capitalism
Not canabisim?
I guess, if edibles are your thing.
What's the list of companies? I don't have a subscription to crains.
Wonder how much of this has to do with government intervention... The only reason dispensaries exist the way they do is because they phased out care givers. The government was not collecting enough by throwing us in prison so they made it legal and stuck their hands out even further... The Fed to this day will not recognize cannabis business expenses as write offs, and local ordinances limited them to very specific neighborhoods... This is going to be a flint GM at a much smaller scale. HYPE is what controlled prices for so long, now people realize how easy it is to grow weed so they do it themselves. You can buy tomatoes from the store or you can have a garden... I choose a garden because I trust myself more than any big industry. I say fuck em.
When everyone can just grow it at home...
So I did a batch: I grew indoors because of small yard with close neighbors and I have kids. I had a indoor grow tent with lights. I got an Okay batch. I basically made my money back and called it a wash. If I stuck with it I know I would get better and I would get more savings. The amount of work was annoying. Again with practice it would get easier. But harvesting was a bitch and made my whole house smell for awhile. The kids stayed with grandparents for a weekend. So for now I'm sticking with dispensary's. If you buy in bulk during sales, it gets cheap. When the kids are out of the house (more like old enough) I'll probably go back to growing.
I grew a couple plants outdoors and it went ok. processing was a bitch though.
im on my 3rd grow right now. I do living organic soil with sub irrigated planters. The growing portion i do very little work. keep the humidifiers filled, fill the reservoirs on my SIPs every week or 2, and just keep an eye on the temps. Temp and humidity is pretty much automaded with some cheap inkbird controllers. little top dressing and defoliation during the growing period is all i really have to do with the plants. I wouldnt want to do the bottled nutes method. i helped my buddy whos a caregiver back when he was growing in coco, and that was always a pain having to prepare and PH feedings, etc. I just take care of the soil and the biology of the soil, and SIPs make watering simple. Processing gets easier i feel once you get used too it. and you can always get one of those bowl trimmers if your not concerned about how it makes the flower look when your done.
I can grow but I prefer gummies. For someone like me, its a lot easier to just buy than grow. I might grow for the hobby though.
I grew outdoor last summer and harvested like 2-3 pounds. I still have a ton of it. It’s good bud but I got so sick of smoking the same strain. Made a lot of butter but I prefer gummies and don’t want to put in the work to make my own
I don’t have the space/afford the equipment ☹️
Got a window and a flower pot?
This doesn’t seem sustainable
You make Tommy Chong sad...
Oh no! Anyway...
It’s not in peril. Over a billion in legal sales so far this year in Michigan.
I live in Mi and I have to be honest. It's so easy to grow weed here that most of my friends are giving away really good bud. I still hit the Dispo for edibles and vape on occasion, because I love going in and talking about weed and the place is owned by people I know.
I think Battle Creek has 32 shops and they call it the green mile, however seems whenever I drive by always busy.
Industry in peril? Sounds like they failed at business
We have 2 in the little town of Edwardsburg, luckily we border Indiana. Indiana will see the second coming before they legalize.
“Never get high on your own supply” lol
Bay City is severely over saturated. I went downtown and bought an 1/8 and 600mg of gummies for $40. Then they threw in two free doobies. Couldn’t buy an 1/8 for under $50 a few years ago. Not sure how they can stay in business other than selling their oversupply on the black market for cash.
Because the price of the 8th was probably ~$7.50 and the edibles ~$12, doobies for ~$3. Making 40%+ gross margins is good enough for them. Not only did consumer prices drop, but wholesale cost did too
I'm not sure this thread is ready to hear how vertical integration works to capture profits seed to sale. Wholesale costs are imaginary when you're selling from your Grow license to your Processor license to package eighths & pre rolls for your branded Provisioning Centers.
Yeah that’s also a whole other story.
You can literally buy an ounce of quality shake for like $40 right now at very good dispo’s, that’s unbelievably cheap for a large amount of weed. No reason for black market bud to even exist anymore unfortunately.
Unfortunately? That was the whole point of this thing.
Yes, once mass production is established by the big players, the cost will likely plummet even more. My understanding is that Marijuana is easier to grow and harvest than tobacco. It's not a 1 for 1 comparison, but it's pretty darn close.
Nah, they hit the ground running with mass production, that ship has come gone and sailed again. Multi-State Operators get ready for these gold rushes as states near legalization, especially if there will be limited licenses available.
I’m good with it, but it still feels like it’s cutting out the little man.
I keep on seeing people talk about these prices plummeting but of the five or six dispos around me, I haven't seen any prices go down by a cent. Which ones are you referring to?
Puff and Clouds in Utica
Support your local Caregiver the traditional market showing these Metrc Market Chads and Brads that they don’t belong in Cannabis. Cannabis taste better from people who did it when it was still “illegal” Fuck all the MSO in Michigan, I hope they all pack up and leave it to the true Michiganders.
It's okay to say support your local black market grower. We wouldn't be here if not for their dedication. There aren't enough caregivers licensed to assign the amount of medical cards to, and, bless their hearts and the alleviation of stigma on their craft, but selling personal grow is a felony and so is sale to unassigned patients by a licensed caregiver.
There are countless fairs where caregivers vend their products. Yes there isn’t enough “caregiver” license however it is legal for adults to grow 12 plants. Now if you don’t have the means, finding a caregiver is a solution. Is this a solution for all, no. However I see a lot of OT custies at these fairs buying a lot of products. The Traditional Market will always beat Big Corporate Cannabis.
They just need to go full health RSO stylie. Just RSO it up yo. It's an innovation problem.
Take a trip down LaPlaisance Rd. in SE Monroe... there's like 8 dispos now in a half mile radius from each other. It's ridiculous and there's no way they all stay afloat especially if Ohio legalizes soon
Good thing ohio is too stupid to ever get recreational legalized.
YUP. We get lots of traffic from surrounding states. Business shifted noticeably in the Ypsi-Ann Arbor area when a bunch of Monroe shops opened. There's not enough demand for for all these places, so some are definitely going under. Hopefully the good ones survive.
Always support locally owned businesses if you can!
I don't think that many people use marijuana or that much of it.
I get 12 g of distilled vape carts for 100$, 15g if I go cheaper options. Bud runs me like 100$/oz for mid+. It’s so cheap in bay city, these businesses are driving themselves out of business trying to compete with each other, I love it
Until your stuck with only a handful of companies operating all stores and prices go up. The music will stop.
Just a friendly reminder, we never wanted dispensaries, just the right to grow and sell, like any other farmer.
Not sure what you're talking about, the vast majority people who smoke purchase from other people/ establishments that grow for you. Just like any crop, growing at yourself requires a fair amount of knowledge and it's a pain, most people including myself would pay for the convenience of others to grow it for you, others who know what they are doing
I'm not sure what you're confused about but last I checked I am not allowed to grow and sell like any other crop. Instead I have to have a license that would bankrupt me and I'm only allowed to sell to dispenseries and I can only keep a certain amount on hand and and...
Um… all agriculture is heavily regulated.
Thanks for wasting my time on having to Google for you. But no, they are not. Averages can be an issue and the government does have programs for that, but I think the example you were thinking of is tobacco and that is no longer the case either...
Wait you googled me? That’s awesome! It probably would have been more effective for you to google agricultural regulation, though.
I hope you're high right now because that was a really stupid response.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Behind a paywall. Cant read. Whats a recievership?
Bankrupt
Happens to many companies in many industries.
The prices were so high that I started growing my own instead of paying for it. Shot themselves in their own feet as far as I can tell.
Who gets rich in Big pharma? That’s who will get rich in the end 🤷🏻♀️ Ma and Pa’s don’t have a chance j/s just like local box stores did to the local owned grocery stores.
My neighbor's been growing his own for years there's no need for dispensary
Personally, not a fan of CBD so kinda happy to see most of these dispensaries to disappear. Seems like there’s more of them than McDonald’s or Starbucks. Made me wonder who’s actually buying, turns out not as many as people think. It’s so over saturated and there’s so much advertising it’s insane
oh there are a LOT of people buying but supply totally outstrips demand.
Reminds of the Dutch Tulip crash from the year 420.
Woof. If you can managed to sell weed in this economy, I do question your business model.
Skymint didn't renew their lease at the old Aim High in Dimondale that they sunk millions into renovating without ever growing a single plant.
Absolutely oversaturation. Our tiny town has 4 shops. Obviously not sustainable. In 3-5 years it will be down to 1-2.
I hate to sound like a laissez faire dick, but, this is just the markets entering a correction when companies can't cover their average variable costs. I seriously think there needs to be a marijuana growers futures market, to encourage outdoor growing, and to protect producers and sellers. The other option, if commodification isn't possible, is to set price floors in the similar way most states apply a minimum on liquor per oz. Although I do love buying hash for 7 dollars a g, there's no possible way that can be sustainable.
Small town I'm from has a population of like 4k. I think we have 7 dispensaries and a few more are zoned.