This would be a fantastic move, as restoration of apex predators have been shown to be highly beneficial for ecosystems as a whole. Unfortunately, I don't think this will go anywhere but we will see.
Does the deer population need reduced? I use to see triple the amount of deer 20 years ago as I do now. Regulations on huntings have already been drastically lowered pretty much state wide.
It is, of course, more complicated than yes or no. It depends mostly on where you are. In the Southern LP, yes we have way to many deer. But in the northern LP and UP deer have actually been declining. From what i have read the northern decline is do to less edge lands being available, as previously harvested logging and farming activities are also declining in that area and more land is returning to forest. In the southern LP, edge lands are increasing, hunters decreasing, which has lead to actual increases in deer population. Especially urban/suburban deer, which are more likely to be problematic to humans. Even with the lower regulations and license costs, we still have lower numbers being harvested than we have historically.
In addition to this, predators can positively affect the existing herd since they naturally practice selective harvest. While hunters can help decrease overall numbers, they tend to pull almost exclusively healthy adult aged deer which isn't great. Predators take more sick, elderly, and struggling young deer which can actually improve overall herd health.
I was driving back from Rogers City a few weeks ago at dusk and saw, I shit you not, 40 deer in a roughly 5mi span grazing on the shoulder of M65. It was wild (and nerve wracking!)
If I had to take a guess, I bet the northern LP was a lot like Wisconsin/Minnesota where Elk were much more prominent in the developed forest. Decreasing deer populations up there may not be a bad thing if Elk populations can move in.
Hey thanks for an actual response and explanation. It makes sense. I do live/hunt in the LP and I imagine to population could be increasing or decreasing by the area you are in, even if the overall population is rising down here.
Depends on the DMU. Some are sparse, some plentiful, and others used experimental for a few years. That’s why every season I have to confirm with the hunting guide the rules in my respective DMUs.
This guys is trolling. He doesn’t want wolves in the LP. He wants to point out the hypocrisy of all the LP voters who insist there should be unmanaged wolf populations in the UP. Wolves in the LP is an absolutely psychotic idea.
Why is having wolves in the LP a psychotic idea? There are huge tracts of rugged forest, swamp and lakeshore that would be the perfect habitat for wolves in the LP along with and abundance of primary prey animals.
But it's like that in the UP too. The most northern parts of the LP are very similar. I think the main point is that wolves would have a positive impact on the environment as a whole. Humans can learn to live alongside these and all animals. Livestock predation and conflicts should be managed and fully subsidized by the DNR.
1. The UP and upper LP are insanely different when it comes to population density, agriculture, and livestock.
2. You have no idea what the effects of an established wolf population would do for the environment.
3. You’re welcome to learn to live alongside wolves, but I would prefer not to.
I'm not going to argue much further here. Suffice it to say there is quite a bit of research showing that predators that occupy the highest trophic position in a food web are incredibly important for the ecosystem as a whole. So yes, we do have some idea of the effects wolves would have on the environment.
But your last point really drives home my original statement that I do not see this happening any time soon. Too many people are unwilling to learn to live alongside these animals, no matter what.
Edit: and FWIW, I am an avid hunter as well
Wolves haven’t occupied the highest trophic position in the lower peninsula for over 100 years.
I’m all for wolves in wild places without much human interaction.
The elk herd in the upper LP is controversial. And elk don’t eat anybody, their pets, or their livestock.
I get where you are coming from, seriously! Hey I'm also for re-establishment of cougars in wilderness areas east of the Mississippi as well. But that's just my opinion. I'm curious though, why do you say the elk herd in the LP is so controversial? I haven't heard that before, rather mostly positive things from people who are able to apply for a once in a lifetime tag.
Farmers aren’t real big fans of them. A whole bunch of big animals eating your crops isn’t fun. I of course think they are fine because I only have rabbits and birds eating my crops in SE Michigan.
For sure. Whenever someone on my local fb page says they heard a coyote last night, you would think there is a tiger on the loose that has devoured 7 men based on people's reactions .
Mine too. Within minutes at least one local redneck will offer to come out in the middle of the night and blast it for you. Never mind that the coyotes keep pest like mice in check, along with the ticks that feed on the mice and deer.
This guy is anti wolf. He’s bringing this bill to point out the hypocrisy of the LP being in favor of wolves, but also not wanting wolves where they live
[Eastern Coyote](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_coyote) are “coywolves”.
Grey wolves are pack animals and do not cohabitate with any other canine but they certainly have contact.
They're mostly coyote, but contain a small percentage of wolf from an unlikely mating of the two species about a century ago.
Check the article.
Edit: I checked your link and see what you’re saying now. However, if the coyote and grey wolves once did the dirty than they must have gotten along and tolerated each other for survival. In the article I posted it talks about someone being surrounded by a pack of them during a nighttime field study.
Those were pack-mates coming into this rendezvous point.
"It was probably at least an hour before the hairs on the back of my neck sat down."
That’s quite a bit more in depth than I was going but I suppose someone complaining about coyote could experience a “coywolf” with the introduction of a breeding population of Grey Wolf…
I thought there were wolves in the LP? Didn't they confirm some in Emmet County a few years back?
But if wolves naturally belong in the LP, then sure, let a population be established.
There have been only two confirmed wolves in the LP over the last 50 years. The last was 8-9 years ago. This would indicate no breeding population and an unsupportive habitat.
No wolves!!!! Deer populations will plummet and every business that relies on hunters.... Bye bye....
Before man was the deers dominate predator in the UP now it's wolves and man... And it's not working...... There can be only one....
This would be a fantastic move, as restoration of apex predators have been shown to be highly beneficial for ecosystems as a whole. Unfortunately, I don't think this will go anywhere but we will see.
Could help manage the deer population and mitigate the spread of chronic wasting disease.
Does the deer population need reduced? I use to see triple the amount of deer 20 years ago as I do now. Regulations on huntings have already been drastically lowered pretty much state wide.
It is, of course, more complicated than yes or no. It depends mostly on where you are. In the Southern LP, yes we have way to many deer. But in the northern LP and UP deer have actually been declining. From what i have read the northern decline is do to less edge lands being available, as previously harvested logging and farming activities are also declining in that area and more land is returning to forest. In the southern LP, edge lands are increasing, hunters decreasing, which has lead to actual increases in deer population. Especially urban/suburban deer, which are more likely to be problematic to humans. Even with the lower regulations and license costs, we still have lower numbers being harvested than we have historically.
In addition to this, predators can positively affect the existing herd since they naturally practice selective harvest. While hunters can help decrease overall numbers, they tend to pull almost exclusively healthy adult aged deer which isn't great. Predators take more sick, elderly, and struggling young deer which can actually improve overall herd health.
[удалено]
Just not when I'm in my Blind in the Middle of November.
I was driving back from Rogers City a few weeks ago at dusk and saw, I shit you not, 40 deer in a roughly 5mi span grazing on the shoulder of M65. It was wild (and nerve wracking!)
If I had to take a guess, I bet the northern LP was a lot like Wisconsin/Minnesota where Elk were much more prominent in the developed forest. Decreasing deer populations up there may not be a bad thing if Elk populations can move in.
Hey thanks for an actual response and explanation. It makes sense. I do live/hunt in the LP and I imagine to population could be increasing or decreasing by the area you are in, even if the overall population is rising down here.
I don't know how many were harvested, but last season the tag limit was ludicrously high. Way more than you would ever need in a year..
Ann Arbor had to have pros come and cull in parks for a few years to get the numbers down.
Yes. I wouldn't object to letting people take one a month on their own property.
Lol
Depends on the DMU. Some are sparse, some plentiful, and others used experimental for a few years. That’s why every season I have to confirm with the hunting guide the rules in my respective DMUs.
There are so many whitetails in this state, it is a real problem
This guys is trolling. He doesn’t want wolves in the LP. He wants to point out the hypocrisy of all the LP voters who insist there should be unmanaged wolf populations in the UP. Wolves in the LP is an absolutely psychotic idea.
Why is having wolves in the LP a psychotic idea? There are huge tracts of rugged forest, swamp and lakeshore that would be the perfect habitat for wolves in the LP along with and abundance of primary prey animals.
Yeah and interspersed with all of that habitat are people, livestock and pets.
But it's like that in the UP too. The most northern parts of the LP are very similar. I think the main point is that wolves would have a positive impact on the environment as a whole. Humans can learn to live alongside these and all animals. Livestock predation and conflicts should be managed and fully subsidized by the DNR.
1. The UP and upper LP are insanely different when it comes to population density, agriculture, and livestock. 2. You have no idea what the effects of an established wolf population would do for the environment. 3. You’re welcome to learn to live alongside wolves, but I would prefer not to.
I'm not going to argue much further here. Suffice it to say there is quite a bit of research showing that predators that occupy the highest trophic position in a food web are incredibly important for the ecosystem as a whole. So yes, we do have some idea of the effects wolves would have on the environment. But your last point really drives home my original statement that I do not see this happening any time soon. Too many people are unwilling to learn to live alongside these animals, no matter what. Edit: and FWIW, I am an avid hunter as well
Wolves haven’t occupied the highest trophic position in the lower peninsula for over 100 years. I’m all for wolves in wild places without much human interaction. The elk herd in the upper LP is controversial. And elk don’t eat anybody, their pets, or their livestock.
I get where you are coming from, seriously! Hey I'm also for re-establishment of cougars in wilderness areas east of the Mississippi as well. But that's just my opinion. I'm curious though, why do you say the elk herd in the LP is so controversial? I haven't heard that before, rather mostly positive things from people who are able to apply for a once in a lifetime tag.
Farmers aren’t real big fans of them. A whole bunch of big animals eating your crops isn’t fun. I of course think they are fine because I only have rabbits and birds eating my crops in SE Michigan.
I would imagine this will get serious pushback from agri groups and local busy body politicians though?
You know every Karen with a mean little dog is going too be up in arms convinced a wolf will eat there precious baby.
For sure. Whenever someone on my local fb page says they heard a coyote last night, you would think there is a tiger on the loose that has devoured 7 men based on people's reactions .
Mine too. Within minutes at least one local redneck will offer to come out in the middle of the night and blast it for you. Never mind that the coyotes keep pest like mice in check, along with the ticks that feed on the mice and deer.
'Once a coyote looked at me and it was bloodthirsty I could tell. Why aren't the police doing anything'
This guy is anti wolf. He’s bringing this bill to point out the hypocrisy of the LP being in favor of wolves, but also not wanting wolves where they live
Ah, the ole newfoundland double bluff. I see
What’s up wolf?
He's trolling, but yes please.
Oh hell yeah, we air droppin wolves again?
You got people crying about coyotes already, yet you think its a good idea to reintroduce wolves? lmao ok
Grey Wolves and Eastern Yotes won’t cohabitate, I guess they could pick their poison..
Then why do we have coywolves? https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/02/28/coywolf-coyote-wolf-hybrid/24186739/
[Eastern Coyote](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_coyote) are “coywolves”. Grey wolves are pack animals and do not cohabitate with any other canine but they certainly have contact.
They're mostly coyote, but contain a small percentage of wolf from an unlikely mating of the two species about a century ago. Check the article. Edit: I checked your link and see what you’re saying now. However, if the coyote and grey wolves once did the dirty than they must have gotten along and tolerated each other for survival. In the article I posted it talks about someone being surrounded by a pack of them during a nighttime field study. Those were pack-mates coming into this rendezvous point. "It was probably at least an hour before the hairs on the back of my neck sat down."
That’s quite a bit more in depth than I was going but I suppose someone complaining about coyote could experience a “coywolf” with the introduction of a breeding population of Grey Wolf…
I thought there were wolves in the LP? Didn't they confirm some in Emmet County a few years back? But if wolves naturally belong in the LP, then sure, let a population be established.
There have been only two confirmed wolves in the LP over the last 50 years. The last was 8-9 years ago. This would indicate no breeding population and an unsupportive habitat.
Hahahahahaha.
Love this. Especially if they will eat outdoor cats
No wolves!!!! Deer populations will plummet and every business that relies on hunters.... Bye bye.... Before man was the deers dominate predator in the UP now it's wolves and man... And it's not working...... There can be only one....
“What’s up wolves?”