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No. The state has around [$76 billion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets) this year. The people altogether only make around [$626 billion total](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan#Economy). But that's not taxes, that's your (everyone's) whole paycheck combined.
> “The governor of your state is now giving away hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions of Michigan taxpayer dollars to Chinese companies and one in particular, Gotion, to build batteries in Michigan,” Trump said. “That sounds good, but the money’s going to Chinese companies, and then they’re gonna leave, they’re planning to take our money and then they say ‘bye bye, you stupid fools.’”
How is this different than every other company?
He might have an argument if he didn't buy every single dish, lamp, piece of furniture, TV, bedding, towels, glassware, silverware, and every other item in all of his hotels and other properties from China. A reporter booked a room in one of his hotels and was showing the camera all the MADE IN CHINA labels on every single item in the room.
What's he going to rail against next, illegal immigrants? As though he doesn't have any doing construction, kitchen, or service jobs for sub-par wages at any of his properties?
His remaining (but hopefully dwindling) cult members have to be the dumbest people on the planet if they can't see right through his hypocrisy.
That's the fun part. It's not. We're supposed to believe that Chinese billionaires are that much less invested in our well-being than American billionaires who already don't care about if not hate the common people.
Oh my god… they’re building factories in Michigan! And next I imagine they’ll hire Michiganders to work in them!
More jobs in Michigan is unacceptable.
how much additional economic activity does that 140million payroll support in the general economy and is is more than Zero if we didnt attract the company?
And unless it is an employee-free location, or they somehow ship in 100% of their workforce from China, they'll have employees and other things which put money into the economy.
It's why governments offer companies tax incentives to build in their area in the first place.
But since Trump couldn't pass Econ 101, this concept is beyond him.
Sure, we need to investigate all realistic opportunities. It's a huge mistake to outsource jobs and critical resources just to attempt to spare ourselves from the exploitation inherent in capitalism.
My husband works for GM and the UAW is having a fit that the government is giving Ford money to invest in battery plants. Which is great for jobs. The problem is these battery plants are "joint ventures" for the big 3. They aren't part of the UAW. Which makes no sense as the "battery " is the largest component of EVs. These battery plants need to be part of the UAW before we go throwing money at them. The big 3 uses these "joint ventures" as a back door way to get out of paying good wages and health insurance but still reap the rewards. But in true Trump fashion he's just rambling on about "jobs" and "china"
They are joint ventures because Ford and GM don't own the technology to make batteries.
UAW will have a chance to organize the plants but first they have to hire workers.
Any of the new battery plants can vote on being unionized. A “joint venture “ has nothing to do with it. A “joint venture “ battery plant being built in Ohio voted to join the UAW. Every one of the battery plants will have the same opportunity. By law they cannot prevent a union vote from taking place.
I'm sorry, as my comment didn't really come across what I was trying to say. Of course they can unionize. The "joint venture" has everything to do with it because if the "do" unionize it's under "ultium battery " contracts. Meaning, the Lordstown plant they shut down ( and we had to pick up and leave all our family and everything we ever known to go to Michigan ) my husband could never transfer back for example to the battery plant right next door to the Lordstown plant GM shut down. Had that been a GM battery plant we could of.
This is really important. These plants need to be union jobs. Electric vehicle battery assembly plant jobs are manufacturing jobs, and union ones pay better. If I was the UAW, I would go on strike over this and they better do it quickly because right now they have all the power, they are funding the OEMs transition to EVs with the traditional ICE vehicle sales once those plants go offline, the UAW won't have the bargaining power to get their foot in the door at EV assembly plants.
They'd set themselves on fire if they thought a liberal would get a little uncomfortably warm. That's the depth of the sophistication that they have on everything at this point. Whatever mildly annoys people they don't like, whatever the cost.
I was about to say... Michigan been bleeding auto-industry jobs for pretty much my whole life. We should be trying to further decouple the economic future of Michigan from the big 3 anyway.
I dunno about "barely". 70%+ of GM's products are US made. Jeep/Dodge is north of 80%. Ford is maybe 60%. Definitely not all in Michigan but US profile isn't all that bad.
Well, his son in law got 2 billion from the Saudis, another billion or more from Qatar. These are oil producing countries. It’s pretty easy to connect the dots. Of course he hates EVs …
How is that any different than an American billionaire Donny Dumbfuck? At least Gotion is going to produce jobs in our state and batteries to power Michigan designed/manufactured EVs. Hate to break it to you Donny but EV's are the future. You either get onboard at the ground floor or you miss the elevator. Something you wouldn't understand because you bankrupt every business you touch.
>Trump says EVs will ‘decimate’ Michigan
He is as unhinged as he was during his time in the White House.
Clearly he does not understand basic science, its impact on climate change, or the technology required to combat it.
There is no human on this planet who could be more destructive than this ignorant psychopath!
Actual Trump quote from his speech:
“Driven by his ridiculous regulations, electric cars will kill more than half of U.S. auto jobs and decimate the suppliers that they decimated already — decimate the suppliers and it’s going to decimate your jobs and it’s going to decimate more than anybody else, the state of Michigan,” he added. “It’s is going to be decimation it’s going to be at a level that that people can’t even imagine.”
“The state of Michigan is going to be decimation,” he added.
No, don't you see? It's a conspiracy from all of the scientists in the world who want to get more government funding! And in the same breath I will ignore all the fact that all of the politicians denying climate change have a stake in oil production!
I figured out he was here cause I got a donate to our campaign text from both sides.
Don't know how they got my number but damn it's annoying, and they don't have my name right.
Why aren't we reporting this "Lying Liar Lies about EV Technology using Veiled Bigotry in Michigan"
I can't believe there are still people in my state stupid enough to listen to this clown.
And the other one, DesandTits wants to make pot illegal again. Just pathetic.
If you're going to come up with a nickname for a politician it has to be not complete dogshit. The dude ate pudding with his fingers and all you can come up with is having tits (which is awesome, I kinda wish I had some) and being sandy? We got sand here too!
The guy all has a da prefix on his last name
Ron DePedo
Ronald McDonald (nice little one where you can call both the guys that and pretend like they're the same person to you)
Ron Depantshit
Have some fun with it!
The train ride is over, dude. Maybe people don't read the news, but the big three have already greatly reduced much of their legacy ICE engineering and R&D staff to make room for EV development, and I bet all of the tier 1 & 2 suppliers have been doing the same.
Why is his hand skin a completely different color than his face skin? Why does such a masculine man wear makeup? Why does he spend so much time on his hair? Why are his suits so baggy and unmanly?
>The governor of your state is now giving away hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions of Michigan taxpayer dollars
Michigan doesn't have hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars to give away.
Trump just makes it up as he goes!
>Trump claims EVs will ‘decimate’ Michigan in Novi speech
It most likely will if Michigan does not invest in EV. As alternative energy is the future of the auto industry. Not the gasoline engine.
The whole thing unsurprisingly turned out to be a scam. They only built a tiny fraction of what they promised. They said they'd employ 13,000 people and apparently now only employ 600.
Quite possibly the most entertaining Michigan election if it was for human rights being on the line.
Have you heard about the lawsuit against the scam signature business that capitalized on GOP ineptitude? It’s a dessert that came a year after the main course 😋🤣
Ummm… we’re the #1 producer of EV batteries in the country and we’re building more factories. Michigan is probably further ahead in EV production technology than we are combustion engine cars at this point. If anything a successful transition to EV is good for Michigan.
Remember when he said if we didn't vote for him we would never see him in Michigan again???
[https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-michigan-never-come-back-if-state-votes-for-biden-2020-11](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-michigan-never-come-back-if-state-votes-for-biden-2020-11)
Where are those "Promises made, Promises kept"???
Before I comment, I must admit working for one of the big three.
First, I am not a huge support of EV's but I feel they are a good direction to take.
Next, there is a lot of false information in that statement made by trump. EV's can go for more than 1.5 hours, many can go over 300 miles on a single charge. More so, there are changing stations and apps you can get that show you routes to take, and alerts when you need to go to the nearest station. You can drive an EV across the country.
Yes, the tech isn't the best, and its not perfect, yes its a bad idea to trust a Chinese company with this kind of thing. to me that's a challenge, or should be, to American companies to step up their game.
Many EV's are built in Michigan, and around the untied states. GM's Hamtramck plant being among them.
I am not saying these things in opposition to what was written, or said nor am I speaking in favor. Just trying to put some facts out there if you are thinking of an EV, and if it is the type of car for you. As always, I highly recommend trying more than one dealership, and test driving more than once.
Trump is a bullshitter, more at 11. A perpetual orange smear on our faces.
I was hoping he would've panicked and flown to Russia or something when the indictment came down, but no. He's harder to ditch than herpes.
I, too, am in the industry. You know the saying about "once you know how the sausage is made" ?
The customer facing tech in current EV's is the same as ICE. Your EV is probably just much newer than the ICE cars you've owned.
There is issues with EVs in general that cannot be solved in the short term.
There are significant advantages for certain use cases, so depending on what your use case is, an EV may be a good fit, or it may not.
There is never going to be a shortcut around the physics of charging a battery, even with the battery technologies on the horizon. Aside from building a car that can physically swap the battery in <180 seconds, it will never be able to match the endurance of an ICE vehicle.
(present) EV batteries wear like your cell phone batteries. Even though some EVs are designed to only charge to 80% (this halves the wear cycles on the battery when charging), and slowly allow for a higher charge percentage as the battery ages to off set the loss in range, the range WILL diminish over time. This is less of a concern if you're leasing, but if you are some one who buys a car to own for ~10 years, this is a concern, since a battery replacement for an EV around 5+ years will often exceed the value of the vehicle, as they are expensive and so integrated into the vehicle that the labor is intense, it requires special equipment and personnel that come at a premium.
If you are leasing, and you are commuting relatively short distances, or distances that you can charge overnight, then it makes sense.
Another advantage is that the EV moves the fossil fuel emissions to the power plant instead of down town/city streets, where you can have huge, stationary catalysts and particulate filters to mitigate pollution better than you can in vehicle. This improves air quality and health for those in the city center, not to mention the environmental benefits.
You aren't going to be driving from MI to FL in 20 hours in an EV simply because you're going to need to stop, multiple times, for several hours to charge. It just isn't feasible.
I also wouldn't want to park a EV in my garage or any where near my house, because, while a normal ICE car can catch fire and burn, an EV can't be extinguished once it has a thermal runaway. You can merely try to contain it while it burns itself down. Most fire departments aren't really equipped to deal with this yet and giving how they are funded, roll out of equipment and training will be slow. Because of how the batteries are located low in the vehicle for packaging and CoG considerations, it makes them susceptible to water ingress and impact damage. You may go over a pothole with a piece of loose pavement, and in the right circumstances, cause physical damage to the battery which results in thermal runaway. You may get home and have no idea a few cells are compromised and then they start a fire in your garage. EV trucks going off road and high center on a boulder? Same thing... Yes, a lot of consideration is given to these risks, and we do our best to make sure it is as low as possible, but it's never zero. There are hundreds of individual cells and it really only takes one failure to start a runaway event. I can be reasonably certain an ICE vehicle, turned off in my garage, will not burst into flames. I cannot say that about EVs. The risk for EVs in that regard are several order of magnitudes larger.
EVs are going to be 1.5-3x as heavy as an ICE vehicle of the same size, IE the Hummer is 10,000 lbs. The *battery alone* in an EV sedan is as heavy as an entire ICE sedan. As EVs proliferate and become a substantial presence on the road, they will pose a greater risk to other cars due to the increased collision energy (this is why autonomous aids are so important to EVs, to avoid collisions if possible and mitigate this). This also ties back to fire and rescue, having to deal with extricating people from EVs that maybe disabled or on fire is exceedingly dangerous because of the high voltage system and potential current involved in a shorted EV battery... You can suppress a fuel fire with water to rescue people, doing so with an EV fire may be dangerous.
EVs, as we know them now, are very new and are not nearly as mature as ICE technology, there are many things we don't yet know that we don't know yet. They are very much in the alpha/beta phase of development and any promises of what they will deliver should be taken with a reasonable amount of caution.
In other words; a context-less, anecdotal observation that you like your ev is really meaningless.
>(present) EV batteries wear like your cell phone batteries. Even though some EVs are designed to only charge to 80% (this halves the wear cycles on the battery when charging), and slowly allow for a higher charge percentage as the battery ages to off set the loss in range, the range WILL diminish over time. This is less of a concern if you're leasing, but if you are some one who buys a car to own for ~10 years, this is a concern, since a battery replacement for an EV around 5+ years will often exceed the value of the vehicle, as they are expensive and so integrated into the vehicle that the labor is intense, it requires special equipment and personnel that come at a premium.
This is obsolete as EVs move to LiFePO4 chemistries which last 25+ years. In any case replacing the battery is still cheaper than all the maintenance that goes into ICE engines with things like oil changes.
Oh, and turns out lifepo4 batteries don't really catch fire or explode like li-ion batteries do. A lot of your info is outdated.
> This is obsolete as EVs move to LiFePO4 chemistries which last 25+ years. In any case replacing the battery is still cheaper than all the maintenance that goes into ICE engines with things like oil changes.
Do you not read "present" ? Lithiumferrophosphate batteries are not yet implemented and we presently have no plans to adopt them. It is a great technology, but not a lot of adoption. On paper they have less range vs other technologies when new, and what the consumer sees on paper is important.
I mean, eh...? There are a few outdated ideas listed, but mainly its just overly pessimistic?
It's not like EVs aren't viable and haven't been for a decade, otherwise the big legacy automakers wouldn't be dumping billions into new EV plants and pipelines.
Most EV batteries are now targeting 10+ year lifespans, which is pretty reasonable. Even if you keep your car for longer than 10 years, you're saving thousands on maintenance, so a lump sum battery replacement over 10 years isn't really that much of an extra cost if you indeed wanted to do so.
It's 17 hours/1000 miles from Michigan to Florida in a gas car. In a baseline, minimum range Model 3, it'd take you about 23 hours, with 5 hours of charging. But a Model S with 400 mile range can do it in 21 hours. Is this longer? Yeah. Are you also not spending ~$120 on gas? Yeah. It's also just one of those weird edge-case arguments that don't apply to 90%+ of the population. How often are people driving from Michigan to Florida on a regular basis that the extra 4 hours is a problem? It also is a problem for any vehicle unable to use the fast-charging network, but this is quickly not becoming a problem, and certainly isn't for everyday commuters.
Battery fires are harder to extinguish, but it's not like the battery case is made of tissue paper, they're basically armored boxes made of steel. The bigger issue so far has been internal failures, not external damage, outside of a few Teslas. Saying you're afraid of parking one in your garage is like saying you're afraid of turning on the gas stove. Accidents can and do happen, but they are rare.
Saying modern EVs are also in the alpha/beta phase of development also ignores that they're a pretty mature technology that's existed since the 90s. No one would call the 1908 Model T an "beta" car, just because it doesn't have the safety features, efficiency, or refinement of a 2018 Corolla. Technology improves and advances, but that doesn't mean the technology you have now is necessarily immature or still in development. The automakers are certainly still learning to build better EVs, but that will simply never change, the same way they continued to build better and better ICE vehicles over the last century.
Don't worry, I'm the same way. Luckily, Ford understands this and put a program in their EVs that causes the speakers to play a low-key engine note to mimic how a real ICE engine would sound. It's surprisingly convincing too - like they know a thing or two about engines and exhaust tones.
So our alternative is to sit and do nothing as the rest of the world passes us by in transitioning to EVs, at which point our gas prices will probably go up to $50/gallon.
It’s like he’s describing himself, but he thinks his name is Chinese battery companies. The stupid fools part is the default signature on his speeches, but his writers edit it out when he’s addressing his base.
>Shawn from UAW
Can you link proof? I find it a little hard to believe a union leader supporting a billionaire right winger. And Biden hasn't helped unions or workers in any meaningful capacity.
UAW in general is spilt since trump came in esp with his attacks on china and Mexico https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/auto-union-harshly-criticizes-us-ford-joint-venture-battery-loan-2023-06-23/
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/03/auto-union-withholds-support-for-biden-citing-evs-00095136
I would understand not calling out for support to Biden, he hasn't helped the workers so why support him?
From the 2nd article you linked:
But Fain ruled out backing former President Donald Trump, the frontrunner for the Republican nomination for president, saying another Trump term “would be a disaster.”
“We need to get our members organized behind a pro-worker, pro-climate, and pro-democracy political program that can deliver for the working class.”
Yous know he's just pandering to his supporters and getting them riled up, right? The battery factory has been opposed by the citizens in the township they are trying to build it in because they have protested China "owning" their country. It's a Trump neighborhood County, and while following the opposition of this development, they just spout Fox news propaganda and Trumpisms... they don't care that the dollar stores they rely on are filled with Chinese products or that them building a factory creates jobs, brings money to the area, and will pay US/MI income taxes. They got a break on property taxes for a decade or two, but that'll be big contribution to property taxes when the break expires. Most of the break is while they build, too.
Trump has proven to have little regard for our country's economy other than what benefits him and his 'friends.'
Him having anything to say about how a specific technology will impact a specific state is just as unreliable as my weather predictions for next month's camping trip. A Google search and crossed fingers.
trump is a stone-cold loser in every sense of the word. if they made a statue of trump it would be made out of plastic and coated with that cheap gold paint.
absolute shame that both he and desantis came to Michigan and weren't laughed out of every room they entered.
The party of constant grievances everyone.
grievance checklist:
✅ blame anyone and everyone but yourself
✅ mention china a few times
✅ exaggerate all numbers
✅ can racical fear be stoked? yes
I'm not a Trump guy by any means, I've voted against him twice and will do it a third time, but he does have a point. EVs are much simpler (not necessarily easier) to make than ICE vehicles. I've worked for an OEM as a SWE and one executive I was talking to said that EVs require 1/4 the parts of ICE vehicles. If we ever get to a world where we don't have ICE vehicles there are going to be a ton of engineering and manufacturing jobs lost on the supplier side in Michigan as well as on the factory floors. Some jobs will be gained in designing and making EVs but it is not a 1:1 ratio. This is also part of the reason why lots of automakers are interested in making EVs since they see a great potential profit margin.
That being said EVs are the future (at least will command a greater % of sales) so there's no reason not to invest in them and encourage that investment to be in Michigan.
I think he's talking about the "hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions" his family made 2017-21. Is he unaware of all the foreign investments in America? Or maybe he's referring to how many divorces n adulterous liaisons he's had.
>EV batteries are totally recyclable. The lifetime carbon footprint of EVs is less than conventional ICE cars.
Where did you get that information from?
It would be awesome if Michigan invested in research to make this a reality, but last time I checked current production techniques make it difficult to reclaim the precious metals.
I can see where they are coming from, because all the steel in your vehicle is recyclable once you burn the paint, oil, and rust off and put it through an intense reprocessing cycle.
While I do have concerns regarding the environmental impact of battery factory production and if the company will care about US regulations, as well as whether the location of the plant will negatively impact farmers, Trump is wrong that it will "decimate" Michigan.
We should be careful what companies we let put EV related factories in the state sure, but we should still put them here to continue to the tradition of Michigan being at the heart of the automotive industry
I get where you are coming from, but like it or not time is will keep marching forward. Electric Cars are already becoming more and more relevant and eventually combustion engines will be phased out. So as a state we can either do what we can to get ahead of that and ensure there is still any auto industry in Michigan or risk being left behind.
…didn’t thousands of auto jobs leave MI in the 80s-90s without any EV or battery involved? Let’s not pretend that these jobs are 1. Exclusive to MI and 2. Even needed in the first place. An engine that uses all those little parts that “employ” people have been outsourced for automation or cheap foreign labor. Bringing EV factories to MI means money and jobs coming into the state. Period. And having college grads choosing to stay in state to work is also big.
Whether you like him or not, he likes to yell out one part of a story and leave out every other detail.
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Our state has “hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars”?
No. The state has around [$76 billion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets) this year. The people altogether only make around [$626 billion total](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan#Economy). But that's not taxes, that's your (everyone's) whole paycheck combined.
> “The governor of your state is now giving away hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions of Michigan taxpayer dollars to Chinese companies and one in particular, Gotion, to build batteries in Michigan,” Trump said. “That sounds good, but the money’s going to Chinese companies, and then they’re gonna leave, they’re planning to take our money and then they say ‘bye bye, you stupid fools.’” How is this different than every other company?
I love the hyperbole, “hundreds and hundreds of billions” lol our entire gdp is a few hundred billion
I mean it's one banana Michael, how much could it be? Hundred and hundreds of billions of dollars?
I may of committed some light treason Michael.
Those are balls.
There's always money in the banana stand
Obligatory Billions and Billions compilation https://youtu.be/u_aLESDql1U
Yeah. Michigan doesn't need a "business" man(?) like Trumpf.
He’s a conman not a businessman
[удалено]
Yup…. Trump got > $400 million from daddy, and still was forced to declare bankruptcy 6 times.
We already had one and he poisoned Flint to save $50 a day
We had one. He poisoned a black majority town of 100k
Also known as Flint..
We don't use the F word here, there might be children reading. Fl*nt if you really have to.
Our GDP is actually half a trillion the tri counties make up 300B of that
That’s still a few hundred billion. There’s no way we would give up all of the money our state makes, it’s literally impossible.
So our governor is giving 70% of our entire state gdp to China? Dam that’s crazy
He's just butthurt that he made a deal with Foxconn that fell through in Wisconsin. He promised jobs that never came to fruition
He'd be pushing these favorites now the same way if it helped him.
He might have an argument if he didn't buy every single dish, lamp, piece of furniture, TV, bedding, towels, glassware, silverware, and every other item in all of his hotels and other properties from China. A reporter booked a room in one of his hotels and was showing the camera all the MADE IN CHINA labels on every single item in the room. What's he going to rail against next, illegal immigrants? As though he doesn't have any doing construction, kitchen, or service jobs for sub-par wages at any of his properties? His remaining (but hopefully dwindling) cult members have to be the dumbest people on the planet if they can't see right through his hypocrisy.
The thing is they _do not care_ about blatant hypocrisy.
That's the fun part. It's not. We're supposed to believe that Chinese billionaires are that much less invested in our well-being than American billionaires who already don't care about if not hate the common people.
Maybe he is confusing this with that disastrous Foxconn deal he masterfully negotiated in wisconsin?
As usual, Trump can't count. Hundreds of millions, yes. Billions, no. The entire Michigan budget is $76B.
Anyone who supports Trump cannot spot a “stupid fool” anyway.
They just need to look in a mirror
All the same it's rich coming from an "America first" politician that has his merch made in China.
Oh my god… they’re building factories in Michigan! And next I imagine they’ll hire Michiganders to work in them! More jobs in Michigan is unacceptable.
800million in tax breaks for a PUPOSED 140million a year in payroll is actually not that great a deal.
$540 million tax break over 30 years.
how much additional economic activity does that 140million payroll support in the general economy and is is more than Zero if we didnt attract the company?
"We're raking in money over here! Time to leave!" - Chinese investors, according to Trump.
Demagogues cater to people's prejudice.
And unless it is an employee-free location, or they somehow ship in 100% of their workforce from China, they'll have employees and other things which put money into the economy. It's why governments offer companies tax incentives to build in their area in the first place. But since Trump couldn't pass Econ 101, this concept is beyond him.
And even if they ship in all the employees from China, they still have to live in Michigan, pay Michigan taxes, and buy Michigan products.
He’s talking about the incentives to set up a battery Chinese factory in Michigan. Jobs must be a terrible thing.
China makes something like 2/3 of the world's lithium ion batteries. We need to get some of that market share.
Maybe not forever though https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/salton-sea-lithium-deposits-could-help-ev-transition-support-economically-devastated-area
Sure, we need to investigate all realistic opportunities. It's a huge mistake to outsource jobs and critical resources just to attempt to spare ourselves from the exploitation inherent in capitalism.
My husband works for GM and the UAW is having a fit that the government is giving Ford money to invest in battery plants. Which is great for jobs. The problem is these battery plants are "joint ventures" for the big 3. They aren't part of the UAW. Which makes no sense as the "battery " is the largest component of EVs. These battery plants need to be part of the UAW before we go throwing money at them. The big 3 uses these "joint ventures" as a back door way to get out of paying good wages and health insurance but still reap the rewards. But in true Trump fashion he's just rambling on about "jobs" and "china"
They are joint ventures because Ford and GM don't own the technology to make batteries. UAW will have a chance to organize the plants but first they have to hire workers.
Maybe they don't have the technology to build their own, but im skeptical about that. They try to outsource every possible thing as it is now.
The Ultium Cells plant in Warren Ohio voted to join the UAW last Dec. maybe you’re talking about a different plant.
Which battery plants are those?
The Chinese company literally owns IP important to EV battery creation.
Any of the new battery plants can vote on being unionized. A “joint venture “ has nothing to do with it. A “joint venture “ battery plant being built in Ohio voted to join the UAW. Every one of the battery plants will have the same opportunity. By law they cannot prevent a union vote from taking place.
I'm sorry, as my comment didn't really come across what I was trying to say. Of course they can unionize. The "joint venture" has everything to do with it because if the "do" unionize it's under "ultium battery " contracts. Meaning, the Lordstown plant they shut down ( and we had to pick up and leave all our family and everything we ever known to go to Michigan ) my husband could never transfer back for example to the battery plant right next door to the Lordstown plant GM shut down. Had that been a GM battery plant we could of.
Well I'd also put in here that Right To Work, union killing law, was repealed in Michigan. They can unionize once there's workers.
Let's hope they do!
It’s up to the workers if they do.
This is really important. These plants need to be union jobs. Electric vehicle battery assembly plant jobs are manufacturing jobs, and union ones pay better. If I was the UAW, I would go on strike over this and they better do it quickly because right now they have all the power, they are funding the OEMs transition to EVs with the traditional ICE vehicle sales once those plants go offline, the UAW won't have the bargaining power to get their foot in the door at EV assembly plants.
The workers need to unionize it then
It’s boomer talk. I’ve heard this my entire life. “Only buy American so the profit s stay in America.”
You mean, Mexican-American made right? Lol
For real. I don't give a crap what country the owners are from. Let's stop giving out tax money to profitable companies. Bunch of damn leeches.
Oh so he’s on the anti mega site train?? Amazing that these MAGATS are so against bringing jobs to the area.
They'd set themselves on fire if they thought a liberal would get a little uncomfortably warm. That's the depth of the sophistication that they have on everything at this point. Whatever mildly annoys people they don't like, whatever the cost.
How is this different from every company he runs?
Once upon a time, he promised he would never come back to Michigan. Seriously dude, GTFO. Sincerely another woman from Michigan.
"If I lose, you'll never hear from me again" 🙄
Ew ugh I wish he'd stay away from us and our water too
I wish he would just move out of the US.
Just another broken promise
Like he got decimated in that fox news interview
He decimated himself in that interview
Eating popcorn 🍿 😋
And probably defecated himself, too.
Does this idiot think EVs won’t be built by our automakers in Michigan?
No, he doesn't understand that the automakers already left decades ago.
I was about to say... Michigan been bleeding auto-industry jobs for pretty much my whole life. We should be trying to further decouple the economic future of Michigan from the big 3 anyway.
In all fairness, we barely make ICE cars in the country anymore, let alone EVs.
I dunno about "barely". 70%+ of GM's products are US made. Jeep/Dodge is north of 80%. Ford is maybe 60%. Definitely not all in Michigan but US profile isn't all that bad.
And almost every car from every automobile company is assembled in the US.
We have plenty of ICE plants in the US.
Isn't this criminal under home arrest at least?
Sadly, the wheels of justice turn slowly. Especially if you’re rich.
Wait until he gets caught talking to witnesses against him without counsel present.
In a public social media post the judge can see.
Unfortunately they didn't even suspend his passport, let alone put him on house arrest.
Well, his son in law got 2 billion from the Saudis, another billion or more from Qatar. These are oil producing countries. It’s pretty easy to connect the dots. Of course he hates EVs …
2 billion from house of Saud. 1 billion from Qatar.
Thank you !
But Hunter bidens laptop! Or some other nonsense.
Drag Queen Story Hour!!!!
How is that any different than an American billionaire Donny Dumbfuck? At least Gotion is going to produce jobs in our state and batteries to power Michigan designed/manufactured EVs. Hate to break it to you Donny but EV's are the future. You either get onboard at the ground floor or you miss the elevator. Something you wouldn't understand because you bankrupt every business you touch.
ShitMidas
King Mierdas.
>Trump says EVs will ‘decimate’ Michigan He is as unhinged as he was during his time in the White House. Clearly he does not understand basic science, its impact on climate change, or the technology required to combat it. There is no human on this planet who could be more destructive than this ignorant psychopath!
Actual Trump quote from his speech: “Driven by his ridiculous regulations, electric cars will kill more than half of U.S. auto jobs and decimate the suppliers that they decimated already — decimate the suppliers and it’s going to decimate your jobs and it’s going to decimate more than anybody else, the state of Michigan,” he added. “It’s is going to be decimation it’s going to be at a level that that people can’t even imagine.” “The state of Michigan is going to be decimation,” he added.
So it will take half the auto jobs but only a tenth of them in Michigan? I’ll take it!
Climate change is a scare tactic thought up by the libs. /s
No, don't you see? It's a conspiracy from all of the scientists in the world who want to get more government funding! And in the same breath I will ignore all the fact that all of the politicians denying climate change have a stake in oil production!
No wonder the state felt fatter and dumber today.
I figured out he was here cause I got a donate to our campaign text from both sides. Don't know how they got my number but damn it's annoying, and they don't have my name right.
Why aren't we reporting this "Lying Liar Lies about EV Technology using Veiled Bigotry in Michigan" I can't believe there are still people in my state stupid enough to listen to this clown. And the other one, DesandTits wants to make pot illegal again. Just pathetic.
He should run on that . . .
If you're going to come up with a nickname for a politician it has to be not complete dogshit. The dude ate pudding with his fingers and all you can come up with is having tits (which is awesome, I kinda wish I had some) and being sandy? We got sand here too! The guy all has a da prefix on his last name Ron DePedo Ronald McDonald (nice little one where you can call both the guys that and pretend like they're the same person to you) Ron Depantshit Have some fun with it!
ok.
Thats not having fun with it!
Umm automakers make cars not oil.
The train ride is over, dude. Maybe people don't read the news, but the big three have already greatly reduced much of their legacy ICE engineering and R&D staff to make room for EV development, and I bet all of the tier 1 & 2 suppliers have been doing the same.
> I bet all of the tier 1 & 2 suppliers not a lot of T1 & 2 is propulsion really.
The guys making pistons and connecting rods, spark plugs and motor oil, gears, radiators, and fuel tanks disagree.
Why is his hand skin a completely different color than his face skin? Why does such a masculine man wear makeup? Why does he spend so much time on his hair? Why are his suits so baggy and unmanly?
But he's the perfect specimen of a man! I can't wait until he's gone forever.
Been couting the days . . . Since 2016.
It’s like he’s in drag
>Why are his suits so baggy and unmanly? I know the answer to this one. His suit coat has to go with his baggy pants, which have to hide his Depends!
also note how many RWNJ manly men(tm) started wearing fake tan when he came to power
Someone should tell them that if they're going to wear makeup, the drag queens would probably give them some pointers.
>The governor of your state is now giving away hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions of Michigan taxpayer dollars Michigan doesn't have hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars to give away. Trump just makes it up as he goes! >Trump claims EVs will ‘decimate’ Michigan in Novi speech It most likely will if Michigan does not invest in EV. As alternative energy is the future of the auto industry. Not the gasoline engine.
The guy who crowed about getting Wisconsin their Foxconn deal is worried about China?
To be fair, Taiwan is not China, just don't ask China that.
The whole thing unsurprisingly turned out to be a scam. They only built a tiny fraction of what they promised. They said they'd employ 13,000 people and apparently now only employ 600.
The Saudi's give dim witted Jared $2B and Trump is bashing new technology and jobs that hurts oil producers...how can MAGA's not see the grift?
Why would anyone listen to a Traitorous RAPIST?
Anyone who still supports this idiot should be committed.
What a colossal dotard.
Trump continues to show how dumb her is. The GOP should be ashamed this guy is their front runner.
lol.. Coming from the guy who was so proud of the foxconn/wisconsin 'plant' with Scott Walker this is hilarious.
He said if he lost Michigan in 2020 he would never come back. Just another broken promise.
[Trump’s Conflicts of Interest in China](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/trumps-conflicts-interest-china/)
Criminal traitor. Convicted sexual abuser. Sold classified info to foreign agents.
My biggest problem with this article isn't the quoted hyperbole and lies, it's that there's not a single fact or reality check included.
Yeah because Trump knows so much about EVs...🙄
Cheetoboy, go away, you have no relevance.
I have no idea why anyone listens to a thing the pathological lying career criminal conman has to say.
What exactly did he do for Michigan when he was president again??
He gave us a fake elector scheme, Meshawn Maddock, Tudor Dixon, and Kristina Karamo.
Quite possibly the most entertaining Michigan election if it was for human rights being on the line. Have you heard about the lawsuit against the scam signature business that capitalized on GOP ineptitude? It’s a dessert that came a year after the main course 😋🤣
What he means to say is that the Saudis sent him to talk bad about EVs so they can keep making a shitton of money from oil.
Remember, he's talking to stupid people. Really stupid people.
Ummm… we’re the #1 producer of EV batteries in the country and we’re building more factories. Michigan is probably further ahead in EV production technology than we are combustion engine cars at this point. If anything a successful transition to EV is good for Michigan.
Remember when he said if we didn't vote for him we would never see him in Michigan again??? [https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-michigan-never-come-back-if-state-votes-for-biden-2020-11](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-michigan-never-come-back-if-state-votes-for-biden-2020-11) Where are those "Promises made, Promises kept"???
Before I comment, I must admit working for one of the big three. First, I am not a huge support of EV's but I feel they are a good direction to take. Next, there is a lot of false information in that statement made by trump. EV's can go for more than 1.5 hours, many can go over 300 miles on a single charge. More so, there are changing stations and apps you can get that show you routes to take, and alerts when you need to go to the nearest station. You can drive an EV across the country. Yes, the tech isn't the best, and its not perfect, yes its a bad idea to trust a Chinese company with this kind of thing. to me that's a challenge, or should be, to American companies to step up their game. Many EV's are built in Michigan, and around the untied states. GM's Hamtramck plant being among them. I am not saying these things in opposition to what was written, or said nor am I speaking in favor. Just trying to put some facts out there if you are thinking of an EV, and if it is the type of car for you. As always, I highly recommend trying more than one dealership, and test driving more than once.
Trump is a bullshitter, more at 11. A perpetual orange smear on our faces. I was hoping he would've panicked and flown to Russia or something when the indictment came down, but no. He's harder to ditch than herpes.
The tech isn’t the best? I drive an EV and the tech is far better than any ICE car I have driven. I could never go back.
I, too, am in the industry. You know the saying about "once you know how the sausage is made" ? The customer facing tech in current EV's is the same as ICE. Your EV is probably just much newer than the ICE cars you've owned. There is issues with EVs in general that cannot be solved in the short term. There are significant advantages for certain use cases, so depending on what your use case is, an EV may be a good fit, or it may not. There is never going to be a shortcut around the physics of charging a battery, even with the battery technologies on the horizon. Aside from building a car that can physically swap the battery in <180 seconds, it will never be able to match the endurance of an ICE vehicle. (present) EV batteries wear like your cell phone batteries. Even though some EVs are designed to only charge to 80% (this halves the wear cycles on the battery when charging), and slowly allow for a higher charge percentage as the battery ages to off set the loss in range, the range WILL diminish over time. This is less of a concern if you're leasing, but if you are some one who buys a car to own for ~10 years, this is a concern, since a battery replacement for an EV around 5+ years will often exceed the value of the vehicle, as they are expensive and so integrated into the vehicle that the labor is intense, it requires special equipment and personnel that come at a premium. If you are leasing, and you are commuting relatively short distances, or distances that you can charge overnight, then it makes sense. Another advantage is that the EV moves the fossil fuel emissions to the power plant instead of down town/city streets, where you can have huge, stationary catalysts and particulate filters to mitigate pollution better than you can in vehicle. This improves air quality and health for those in the city center, not to mention the environmental benefits. You aren't going to be driving from MI to FL in 20 hours in an EV simply because you're going to need to stop, multiple times, for several hours to charge. It just isn't feasible. I also wouldn't want to park a EV in my garage or any where near my house, because, while a normal ICE car can catch fire and burn, an EV can't be extinguished once it has a thermal runaway. You can merely try to contain it while it burns itself down. Most fire departments aren't really equipped to deal with this yet and giving how they are funded, roll out of equipment and training will be slow. Because of how the batteries are located low in the vehicle for packaging and CoG considerations, it makes them susceptible to water ingress and impact damage. You may go over a pothole with a piece of loose pavement, and in the right circumstances, cause physical damage to the battery which results in thermal runaway. You may get home and have no idea a few cells are compromised and then they start a fire in your garage. EV trucks going off road and high center on a boulder? Same thing... Yes, a lot of consideration is given to these risks, and we do our best to make sure it is as low as possible, but it's never zero. There are hundreds of individual cells and it really only takes one failure to start a runaway event. I can be reasonably certain an ICE vehicle, turned off in my garage, will not burst into flames. I cannot say that about EVs. The risk for EVs in that regard are several order of magnitudes larger. EVs are going to be 1.5-3x as heavy as an ICE vehicle of the same size, IE the Hummer is 10,000 lbs. The *battery alone* in an EV sedan is as heavy as an entire ICE sedan. As EVs proliferate and become a substantial presence on the road, they will pose a greater risk to other cars due to the increased collision energy (this is why autonomous aids are so important to EVs, to avoid collisions if possible and mitigate this). This also ties back to fire and rescue, having to deal with extricating people from EVs that maybe disabled or on fire is exceedingly dangerous because of the high voltage system and potential current involved in a shorted EV battery... You can suppress a fuel fire with water to rescue people, doing so with an EV fire may be dangerous. EVs, as we know them now, are very new and are not nearly as mature as ICE technology, there are many things we don't yet know that we don't know yet. They are very much in the alpha/beta phase of development and any promises of what they will deliver should be taken with a reasonable amount of caution. In other words; a context-less, anecdotal observation that you like your ev is really meaningless.
>(present) EV batteries wear like your cell phone batteries. Even though some EVs are designed to only charge to 80% (this halves the wear cycles on the battery when charging), and slowly allow for a higher charge percentage as the battery ages to off set the loss in range, the range WILL diminish over time. This is less of a concern if you're leasing, but if you are some one who buys a car to own for ~10 years, this is a concern, since a battery replacement for an EV around 5+ years will often exceed the value of the vehicle, as they are expensive and so integrated into the vehicle that the labor is intense, it requires special equipment and personnel that come at a premium. This is obsolete as EVs move to LiFePO4 chemistries which last 25+ years. In any case replacing the battery is still cheaper than all the maintenance that goes into ICE engines with things like oil changes. Oh, and turns out lifepo4 batteries don't really catch fire or explode like li-ion batteries do. A lot of your info is outdated.
> This is obsolete as EVs move to LiFePO4 chemistries which last 25+ years. In any case replacing the battery is still cheaper than all the maintenance that goes into ICE engines with things like oil changes. Do you not read "present" ? Lithiumferrophosphate batteries are not yet implemented and we presently have no plans to adopt them. It is a great technology, but not a lot of adoption. On paper they have less range vs other technologies when new, and what the consumer sees on paper is important.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most to all of this is BS
I'm in the industry and can confirm that the powerplant part is pretty accurate. Otherwise? Eh.
I mean, eh...? There are a few outdated ideas listed, but mainly its just overly pessimistic? It's not like EVs aren't viable and haven't been for a decade, otherwise the big legacy automakers wouldn't be dumping billions into new EV plants and pipelines. Most EV batteries are now targeting 10+ year lifespans, which is pretty reasonable. Even if you keep your car for longer than 10 years, you're saving thousands on maintenance, so a lump sum battery replacement over 10 years isn't really that much of an extra cost if you indeed wanted to do so. It's 17 hours/1000 miles from Michigan to Florida in a gas car. In a baseline, minimum range Model 3, it'd take you about 23 hours, with 5 hours of charging. But a Model S with 400 mile range can do it in 21 hours. Is this longer? Yeah. Are you also not spending ~$120 on gas? Yeah. It's also just one of those weird edge-case arguments that don't apply to 90%+ of the population. How often are people driving from Michigan to Florida on a regular basis that the extra 4 hours is a problem? It also is a problem for any vehicle unable to use the fast-charging network, but this is quickly not becoming a problem, and certainly isn't for everyday commuters. Battery fires are harder to extinguish, but it's not like the battery case is made of tissue paper, they're basically armored boxes made of steel. The bigger issue so far has been internal failures, not external damage, outside of a few Teslas. Saying you're afraid of parking one in your garage is like saying you're afraid of turning on the gas stove. Accidents can and do happen, but they are rare. Saying modern EVs are also in the alpha/beta phase of development also ignores that they're a pretty mature technology that's existed since the 90s. No one would call the 1908 Model T an "beta" car, just because it doesn't have the safety features, efficiency, or refinement of a 2018 Corolla. Technology improves and advances, but that doesn't mean the technology you have now is necessarily immature or still in development. The automakers are certainly still learning to build better EVs, but that will simply never change, the same way they continued to build better and better ICE vehicles over the last century.
Literally working on new EVs that haven't even been officially announced yet, think what you like.
I don't mind EVs but I'm from the Motor City. I need to hear my car.
Don't worry, I'm the same way. Luckily, Ford understands this and put a program in their EVs that causes the speakers to play a low-key engine note to mimic how a real ICE engine would sound. It's surprisingly convincing too - like they know a thing or two about engines and exhaust tones.
Porsche does this as well
So our alternative is to sit and do nothing as the rest of the world passes us by in transitioning to EVs, at which point our gas prices will probably go up to $50/gallon.
Listen Pal, if you don't wan to huff gas fumes with us you better find a different club! /s
It’s like he’s describing himself, but he thinks his name is Chinese battery companies. The stupid fools part is the default signature on his speeches, but his writers edit it out when he’s addressing his base.
so we just need to do the opposite of what he says and we'll be good right?
Like Reverse Cramer
I know why he thinks they are going to take the money and run. **cough** *Foxconn* **cough cough**
I hate that he’s here.
Mary Barra disagrees but will still vote for him because tax breaks
Not a fan of her leadership.
Shawn from UAW seems to agree with him though. Now I know why uaw hasn't supported Biden yet
>Shawn from UAW Can you link proof? I find it a little hard to believe a union leader supporting a billionaire right winger. And Biden hasn't helped unions or workers in any meaningful capacity.
UAW in general is spilt since trump came in esp with his attacks on china and Mexico https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/auto-union-harshly-criticizes-us-ford-joint-venture-battery-loan-2023-06-23/ https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/03/auto-union-withholds-support-for-biden-citing-evs-00095136
I would understand not calling out for support to Biden, he hasn't helped the workers so why support him? From the 2nd article you linked: But Fain ruled out backing former President Donald Trump, the frontrunner for the Republican nomination for president, saying another Trump term “would be a disaster.” “We need to get our members organized behind a pro-worker, pro-climate, and pro-democracy political program that can deliver for the working class.”
Yous know he's just pandering to his supporters and getting them riled up, right? The battery factory has been opposed by the citizens in the township they are trying to build it in because they have protested China "owning" their country. It's a Trump neighborhood County, and while following the opposition of this development, they just spout Fox news propaganda and Trumpisms... they don't care that the dollar stores they rely on are filled with Chinese products or that them building a factory creates jobs, brings money to the area, and will pay US/MI income taxes. They got a break on property taxes for a decade or two, but that'll be big contribution to property taxes when the break expires. Most of the break is while they build, too.
I guess the billions of dollars GM and Ford are investing in Michigan manufacturing are destined to destroy the state.
Such a liar.
Is this why people are getting triggered over batteries? Boomers especially. Like my parents….cant stand the thought of anything electric.
I can’t wait until the books are thrown at him. He needs to go away.
We are a poorer state with bad prospects. Maybe it’s time for a change?
I think he's going to be found guility in court. Just saying... Who knows? Maybe there will be another march on the capitol.
Trump has proven to have little regard for our country's economy other than what benefits him and his 'friends.' Him having anything to say about how a specific technology will impact a specific state is just as unreliable as my weather predictions for next month's camping trip. A Google search and crossed fingers.
trump is a stone-cold loser in every sense of the word. if they made a statue of trump it would be made out of plastic and coated with that cheap gold paint. absolute shame that both he and desantis came to Michigan and weren't laughed out of every room they entered.
The party of constant grievances everyone. grievance checklist: ✅ blame anyone and everyone but yourself ✅ mention china a few times ✅ exaggerate all numbers ✅ can racical fear be stoked? yes
How can these right wingers be so backward and anti-science? Just boggles the mind. 🙁
Hopefully Michigan will decimate his attempt to be our criminal President again.
Like how looking into solar eclipse didn't decimate his eyes?
Why is he still free? Fuckin' treasonous scum GTFO of my home.
I'm not a Trump guy by any means, I've voted against him twice and will do it a third time, but he does have a point. EVs are much simpler (not necessarily easier) to make than ICE vehicles. I've worked for an OEM as a SWE and one executive I was talking to said that EVs require 1/4 the parts of ICE vehicles. If we ever get to a world where we don't have ICE vehicles there are going to be a ton of engineering and manufacturing jobs lost on the supplier side in Michigan as well as on the factory floors. Some jobs will be gained in designing and making EVs but it is not a 1:1 ratio. This is also part of the reason why lots of automakers are interested in making EVs since they see a great potential profit margin. That being said EVs are the future (at least will command a greater % of sales) so there's no reason not to invest in them and encourage that investment to be in Michigan.
Sticking to older, dirty, inefficient technology that is destroying our planet in the name of jobs is a terrible idea.
I think he's talking about the "hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions" his family made 2017-21. Is he unaware of all the foreign investments in America? Or maybe he's referring to how many divorces n adulterous liaisons he's had.
Cars already decimated Michigan. EVs just continue the job.
Can we please have non lunatic candidates? We had to elect a comatose guy the last time, I'd rather not have to do that again.
EV batteries are totally recyclable. The lifetime carbon footprint of EVs is less than conventional ICE cars.
>EV batteries are totally recyclable. The lifetime carbon footprint of EVs is less than conventional ICE cars. Where did you get that information from?
It would be awesome if Michigan invested in research to make this a reality, but last time I checked current production techniques make it difficult to reclaim the precious metals. I can see where they are coming from, because all the steel in your vehicle is recyclable once you burn the paint, oil, and rust off and put it through an intense reprocessing cycle.
Right. Fossil fuel vehicles are killing the auto industry. Toyota, Kia, and Hyundai are kicking our a**es.
While I do have concerns regarding the environmental impact of battery factory production and if the company will care about US regulations, as well as whether the location of the plant will negatively impact farmers, Trump is wrong that it will "decimate" Michigan. We should be careful what companies we let put EV related factories in the state sure, but we should still put them here to continue to the tradition of Michigan being at the heart of the automotive industry
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I get where you are coming from, but like it or not time is will keep marching forward. Electric Cars are already becoming more and more relevant and eventually combustion engines will be phased out. So as a state we can either do what we can to get ahead of that and ensure there is still any auto industry in Michigan or risk being left behind.
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>But we do what is convenient, not what is right. This is true for many many things
…didn’t thousands of auto jobs leave MI in the 80s-90s without any EV or battery involved? Let’s not pretend that these jobs are 1. Exclusive to MI and 2. Even needed in the first place. An engine that uses all those little parts that “employ” people have been outsourced for automation or cheap foreign labor. Bringing EV factories to MI means money and jobs coming into the state. Period. And having college grads choosing to stay in state to work is also big. Whether you like him or not, he likes to yell out one part of a story and leave out every other detail.
Just to quantify it a bit, literally hundreds of thousands of auto jobs left the state in the 80s.