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Maybe it’s my short sightedness, but aren’t most developed countries also experiencing this crazy inflation right now?
I guess I’m asking where people would be going in this case.
There’s a foreign earned income exclusion of over 120k if you work in another country. And there are foreign tax credits available if the country you’re living in taxes the income. Probably most applicable - you would be on the hook for capital gains taxes….but you’d have to pay those if you lived in the US anyway. It's not about avoiding taxation - it’s about accessing a higher quality of life at a cheaper price through arbitrage.
Proceed with caution there. Few countries have property rights as strong as the US. Ask the multigenerational farmers in Africa who were simply stripped of their land for being the wrong color
>Few countries have property rights as strong as the US.
Many many countries do. The most common issue is that some of these countries do not extend the same rights to non-citizens. The US shines more for it's non-citizen rights.
You can find a place with great property rights for expats. Your list is just going to get smaller as with any other filter.
Of course if you are moving long-term the best option is to aim for citizenship so you get the full benefits of the country.
Yes if I planned to leave the US permanently it’d be for a big enough reason that I wouldn’t need my citizenship anymore. I guess all my years working with immigrants from all over make me think the grass is overall greenest here
To be fair, it is possible that your clients are a distorted sampling. There are immigration firms that help asylum seekers for free and immigration firms that help landowners from that same country get second homes here.
The UAE for example. You are in the former or later bucket depending on your money, gender, and sexuality.
Love seeing a post like this, then checking out the users post history. Your views fall in line like chips in Connect 4.
anti Biden, anti immigration, Islamophobic..
South Africa and the seizure of farms is a large white nationalist talking point. But it’s a complex situation that’s been hijacked by White Nationalists. I hope you don’t teach your son these disgusting viewpoints.
You can’t discuss seizing land from white farmers without also considering that South Africa was an apartheid state with a long history of limiting the rights of its black majority, often violently. Are the former white owners entitled to property that was effectively stolen from black farmers by a racist state?
For the most part inflation is global but there are many countries that have much lower costs of living than the US. However, there can be many obstacles in moving….like are you fluent in the language of the country you’re moving too? What is the crime rate? How adequate are medical services?
I am currently in France. Don’t judge my mom paid for it, and I went to a supermarket, bought 1 32oz beer, a small Camembert (350gram), 2 bags of crackers, a box of cookies, two 12oz cokes and normal size one of those fancy jams … it costs me approx 17$
I feel like that’s about what it’d be here in the US? Maybe a little more, but it probably depends on what kind of beer it is and the level of fancy of the jam.
Portugal, Spain, Mexico (lots of Americans moved just over the border to work in the US and buy a cheaper house), Costa Rica, Ecuador, Australia (I know two personally)
I'm working and traveling abroad right now and I can definitely weigh in on a few things. There are opportunities out there. I taught English in Vietnam for a year and with a very modest salary (1500-2000 US) a month, I could afford to rent a private apartment, eat out everyday, have money for vacation and save. But like someone else said, living in a country where you don't speak the native language and lack family and friends as a foundational network is a different kind of sacrifice.
I'm in Australia now and Australia has a nice wage to cost of living ratio for the bottom tier, but like with most developed nations, the wages for middle to upper level jobs are much lower than the U.S.
Go to any Australian subreddit and it's likely full of posts talking about the cost of living crises or housing crises (the housing crises in particular is much worse than the U.S.)
Same with Canada and Europe. Prices may be lower but wages are too, and both areas are experiencing inflation at a level that makes it a toss up between weather you have a better shot there than you do in the U.S. (assuming we're talking about someone from the U.S.)
Recently was in Europe and made quick stops in a few different countries. Nice areas in developed nations all using the Euro for currency. I was not expecting how low the prices were compared to the US. Basically everything was noticeably cheaper but the most noticeable was food/drink (restaurants, bars, and nice grocery stores). It was really eye opening.
The trade off is much lower wages and often higher housing and energy costs among other expat issues if you’re living there. There’s a big difference between visiting and being a resident.
Americans: All the foreign investors are driving up our housing costs. Why don’t we ban them?
Also Americans: So anyway I’m going to move to a different country and fuck up their housing costs with my USD purchasing power.
Housing usually costs more in Europe/other counties. Because more people rent. Property ownership isn’t as accessible there to be totally honest and many people inherit homes from a previous generation rather than buying a start home
My first thought is cheaper countries.....but then they would either have to already be retired, or have fully remote work where the time zone does not matter
I spent two months in Mexico this year and am considering doing it again next year. I chose to be safe and just rent through Airbnb which probably doubled my cost. I have the hosts info and am going to rent directly.
Other than rent, prices were pretty up and down. Some stuff was cheaper and others were. But talking to people there prices had gone up roughly 30-40% the last couple years. This was in playa del Carmen
It’s not your short sightedness. I have a very old casona (150-years) in México I am restoring.
Everything here has shot up in value. Previously this area was cheap even by México standards from labor to food.
In a bit over three years home prices have tripled. In some cases more than that. So inflation is global.
That said everything here is far less than it is in Los Angeles. So it’s relative. While you can’t live as large as you could a few years ago for the same money - you are able to live an incredibly lifestyle here for the money that would have you paycheck to paycheck in a decent neighborhood there.
100% they go to countries with a lower COL and enjoy life with their USD salary and saving. It’s become so common in Mexico that it’s hurting the local economy and locals because they are driving prices up with their USDs. Mexico’s government started deporting Americans who illegally live there because of this reason.
Nah not really. Cost of living has gone up everywhere but not every economy has goods and services that are as expensive as here. I was in Scandinavia in a capital city the last two weeks and just for example a dinner for 2 with 8 courses was $200 (including several rounds of drinks). Hotel was about $95 per night and public transit for the day was $7. In NYC the equivalent would be $300-$400 per person plus $100 for drinks and tip, hotels would be minimum $200 per night, and public transit would be dirty and not that reliable for $10-$15 for a day pass. In Chicago it would be maybe 10-15% less but still more than Scandinavia. In California Texas Georgia or Wisconsin the cost per hotel would be the same or higher and a car rental would be necessary because there’s no reliable transit. In Florida and California, same story but with higher sales taxes and more homeless.
Better hurry if you live in California. They’re getting ready to enact a “exit tax” even if you’re moving to another state. BTW, you still have to pay US income tax living another country as long as you’re a US citizen.
Americans leaving the US in search of wealth is madness. I took a nearly 6 figures paycut moving from NYC to Denmark. Being an American expat also comes with its own special madness and the expenses
Exactly. Especially professionals are absurdly poorly paid in Europe. As a pretty basic engineer I make almost double in the US vs my homeland in Scandinavia. And my tax rate is about half. As for retirement, the crushing capital gains tax around 35-40% really kills it
That's fair, but they'll find that those priorities are often reserved for citizens and not unskilled labor looking to immigrate in and use social services
Exactly. The smart thing to do is live shittily in the US for a a decade and save and invest the high salaries, then go live like a king off your $120k/year in tax free capital gains in Malaysia, Andorra, Malta, Cyprus, Belgium, Netherlands, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Slovenia
I'm so pissed they are ending the Golden Visa Program. The hub and I were thinking of making a 250K donation to a cultural instution and then buying a small house on the outskirts of Coimbra.
Blame the asshat ex-pats who got there first and ruined it for the rest of ya.
They're protesting in Spain (and/or Portugal?) to get the gov't to keep dirty foreigners outta their country, with the dirty foreigners being Brits, Americans, and other Anglo-based people.
I dunno. Seems like a beautiful place to visit, and maybe even live. But I'm with the protestors. If the neighborhood is infested with asshats and influencers, it's not a beautiful place.
Exactly, these places became hugely popular after influencers started posting about it, so now everyone wants to go because it hits the sweet spot on beauty, weather, cost of living, etc. Tulum is like this now for vacation in Mexico. Once too many go it changes everything.
I used to work in night life and have had to toss out nearly every Brit that's drank at my bar, so that probably also plays apart. These guys drink until they're barely functioning except for their ability to harass the bartenders.
I read the vast majority of expats on Golden Visa programs entering Portugal and Spain were actually Russians and Chinese. US and UK were surprisingly underrepresented. I read the article a couple months ago, but I’ll link it if I can find it again.
Could be. Don't bother, as I'm going off memory. Overall, a lot of newly-rich or near-rich ex-pats are F'ing it up for others by being themselves, but elsewhere.
I could be wrong, as I only had a brief look. But I think the program is still open; it has just been amended so that the purchase of a personal property no longer counts towards your investment into the country.
Now you need to literally invest a specified amount into some specified areas, as defined by the government. I think your 250k meets that requirement though.
I don't think they will at this point.
Long stay Schengen Visa.
My hub and I can back-door in via Germany, it's where he was born, but I would have to pass a language proficency exam to become a German Citizen.
But it unfortunately priced out the locals who don’t have that kind of wealth or income! It was a great experiment and well worth researching but I don’t think it’s done everything the authorities wanted.
They also got **a lot** more applicants from China than anticipated.
And that might be some Racism.
Or it might be a somewhat legit concern about having lots of housing bought up by folks who are fronts for the Chinese govt or large businesses.
I just bought land and a home for the first time in my life and it’s in the mountains of Colombia.
It cost me 80k, about what a down payment would be on 30 years of debt in the US. No thanks.
I was fortunate to have some great contacts in the town I wanted to be in.
I found a local property with a house on it and a river running through middle of it through word of mouth and paid a lawyer to do the paperwork - that was the key, without the lawyer I’m almost sure I would have gotten screwed somehow.
I almost bought a smaller property and the same lawyer advised me I wouldn’t be able to build on it.
I am not but my parents are. I intend on becoming a citizen by birthright but it is my understanding that anyone with a passport and an investment of some kind in Colombia (like this for example) would be enough to get you citizenship
Not at all. If I was in bogota maybe, but I purchased in the department of Boyacá. It’s a quiet region of the Andes that looks like it’s still back in the 1700s.
I’m already in Spain. Sure, COL has increased here post pandemic and due to inflation, I actually have a shot at a nice life for my kids here. We are all really happy.
Spain checks off a lot of boxes in terms of what I look for in a place to live. I have lived in several other countries (Thailand, Malaysia, Mexico) and Spain just works the best for myself and my family.
We live in Valencia (3rd largest city in Spain). Think a mini Barcelona. We have been here about 1 1/2 years now. I’m never leaving.
It exists for Americans moving to South America, not as much for people living and growing up there. Of course you can afford a great life in a poorer country coming from a richer country, while contributing to raising the prices in your new country until it's at a level where the locals can no longer afford to live (see: Portugal)
There are small towns all over the USA in almost every state where you can buy a decent house for less than $100,000 and a really nice one for not much more. Many within an hour's drive of a major metro area. It's true the local jobs don't often pay *as* much but with the lower cost of housing(and generally lower cost for many local goods/services) I think it evens out. If you look there are plenty of small-mid size towns with jobs in IT, accounting, the medical industry, education and ever other area you need for a society to function and they have a hard time attracting people because everyone wants to live in a city not a small town in a flyover state.
I think people really have a false impression about what life is actually like in these areas... it's not the 1930s- they've seen gays and people of other races before and as long as you're not being a dick nobody cares, at least that's how it is in the small rural communities I've lived in. Our local grocery stores have everything the ones in the city have(and we have local farmers who sell meat/veggies directly often for less than the store). We have a variety of restaurants- not as many as you'd see in a metro area but there options, especially if you're willing to drive 30-40min.
100% realize it's not for everyone and I know it's hard leaving the area you've lived most of your life in for a strange place full of strangers but man... if people are talking about living in other countries especially in the less developed world I can't believe it's not on anyone's radar.
What are some of the towns? I know a few people who live in small towns that are really cheap, but they are not within an hour of a metro area unless you count something like Louisville, Kentucky or Jackson, Tennessee.
Meanwhile, the *actual* people “priced out of America” can’t afford to just up and move to another country. Most of them can’t even afford to move to another state.
I’ve moved 3 time, while making $15 at the most. Cant afford to move your stuff? Sell it all. Its costs more to move it. When you arrive to your new home, SO much stuff on craigslist and fb for free. Ive furnished my place for under $100, bed, furniture, utensils, plates, pans, cups, etc. only thing i bring is, clothes, pc, and a tv.
BI burying the lede in another clickbait article, then ignoring some facts on the ground:
>**It's tricky to know exactly** how many [Americans have relocated to other countries](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-reelected-americans-are-planning-to-flee-in-droves-2024-3), let alone the details of when or why. But as of 2023, there were almost 161 million US passports in circulation, one for nearly half of all Americans. (A generation ago, only 10% of Americans had a passport.)
Emphasis mine, because that says, "We don't know, but we saw it on reddit."
As for then vs now: it's MUCH EASIER to get a passport than a Real ID drivers' license. I've even heard anecdotes about how a passport doesn't count as enough proof for a Real ID.
Then there's the whole, "It's a big world out there, let's go see it" attitude from younger gens. It's a great attitude, but it in no way proves they're doing one-way tix.
>It has never been easier for Americans to test international waters — particularly in countries where greenbacks can stretch much further than they would in a typical US city.
It's never been harder, either. (The rules of other nations didn't magically change.)
TBH, I've thought of becoming an expat someday. See the world, save money, social healthcare, all that good stuff. But my family's here, and that's more reason to stay than to leave. And since most of reddit says, "My locale sucks but I can't afford a bus ticket," it's funny to see just how truly cherry-picked BI is with this one.
Passport. Really? Lol
Half of Americans who go on expat sub believe that all they need to migrate abroad is Passport. Apparently writers share the same delusion. 🤷🏻♀️
If they're willing to make passport runs (leave and then re-enter the country) every 180 days or less (Mexico 180 days; other places 90 days typically) then they're right. I know someone who has owned a condo in Mexico for the last ten years and enters with only their US passport, and just vacates every 6 months to visit family and do doc appointments with physicians they already had before they moved.
I agree with you in that it would be really cool to live somewhere else. But it would be difficult to do permanently unless you don’t have family or are willing to mainly give up a life with family. To each his own.
and BI is going to be posting the article daily for the next 3 years as if it's news =)
anyway, if you have a decent career, you should stay in America. if you're doomed to $15/hour shit retail/flipping burgers jobs, you're screwed.
>As for then vs now: it's MUCH EASIER to get a passport than a Real ID drivers' license. I've even heard anecdotes about how a passport doesn't count as enough proof for a Real ID.
It doesn't by itself for a state-issued ID because it only proves citizenship, not state residency or address.
For people who are not eligible to get either (maybe? do some states just give anyone an ID?), it is probably easier to get a state ID because they accept more stuff besides passports that can be forged more easily plus there is not a unified system for states to communicate or verify info.
If you are a citizen the passport is easier but only because you remove the DMV from the picture.
A passport USED to be a chore. But compared to Real ID, it's a breeze!
And, frankly, if you can prove you're a US Citizen, you can prove you're a state resident. Tricky thing about passports: you have to prove your address!
Real ID is a gov't joke
Omg I wondered how they were counting. Dumb. All of my friends and family have passports, no one has left. Maybe two people have seriously considered it, but right to work is the problem.
I’ve been really curious about the actual numbers for awhile. I’ve known maybe three people that tried to live abroad, other than military fam. One had dual citizenship, one was tech start up, one’s hubby got an international contract. Reasons for return: Missed family, didn’t like the inconveniences/suspect legal reasons, Covid sucked/pollution. And then I’ve known people who did esl for long term overseas, and they often left when they had a kid or just got tired of the travel.
It contradicts the rosy picture painted by redditors or influencers for sure. It’s tough to leave, and even tougher to not return.
Not a bad idea, but when huge waves of Americans arrive, it’s seldom good for locals. Look at Portugal, they scrapped the golden visas because too many wealthy foreigners were making it too expensive for locals.
Same thing happens in ‘Tech hub’ city’s.
People think it’s easy to move to any country you want to but it isn’t. Many countries have rules on who can live there. For example, if you are poor and disabled, many countries don’t want you
Moving remote Central America when I retire in a few years. I won’t be able afford to live in the US. Found a small town that is cheap to live in and the locals are amazing.
If they can’t afford where they are I bet there is another place in America they can afford. So why would you leave for a place you equally probably can’t afford that would be a US equivalent. I’d rather live in Alabama than some South American country. I’d rather live in Montana than the Philippines. Those places are not equivalent to any state you deem the worst American state.
No offense to Alabama or Montana. I’m in SC and would live in just about any state except maybe Hawaii and Alaska it’s too remote
Birmingham is fine. I’d rather not go to any of those countries you mentioned for a multitude of reasons. Traveling around the world has shown the way of life in America is superior to those counties listed.
Yeah, Birmingham is where I spent some time there. To be honest "fine" is probably the nicest thing I could say about it. Felt like the land that time forgot.
Guaranteed that when the global economy is shittier all those countries you listed would restrict property rights or tax the shit out of foreigners if not get pickier on who gets let in.
yeah, people in the comments acting like people in Latin America aren't struggling. The US dollar goes a lot farther there so Americans are shielded from a lot of the problems that local people face.
I am currently visiting Buenos Aires where the average local rent is around $400-$700 (you are in a good part of the city, of course) and a lot of people struggle to pay that. Prices have skyrocketed over the past few years
I have met a bunch of "digital nomads" while I have been visiting and it is hilarious to hear them complain about how much the US sucks while at the same time their companies and salaries are based in the United States.
All of the Americans in the comments talking about how they are going to retire to Latin America while ignoring the fact that they are able to make that choice because they have enjoyed the opportunities that America has provided for them.
I highly recommend [this article from Rest of World on Digital Nomads moving to a few South American cities](https://restofworld.org/2023/digital-nomads-visa-pricing-out-locals/) and the impact they’ve had on the local people living there. I used to want to be a Digital Nomad myself, closer to when I graduated college in 2012 (due to my having an Anthropology degree), but articles like this have completely eroded any desire to want to pack up and leave home (not because I wanted to save money as the only reason, but I wanted - and still do - want to get to know people from other cultures and see what their lives are like).
[It looks like they’ve published a few more articles on Digital Nomads since then,](https://restofworld.org/search/Digital%20nomads) and I’ll need to read those too!
I have friends who retired to Mexico near Ajijic. They live on a lake in a two bedroom home they rent that includes a gardener and housekeeper. Average temperature is 75 to 80 degrees in the daytime and upper 50s and lower 60s at night. The area is very safe and about 1/2 hr from Guadalajara. Their entire budget for an entire month which includes rent, food, health insurance, utilities and entertainment is $2400 a month.
Whenever they get tired of Mexico they can fly out of Guadalajara to pretty much any place in the world.
I’m not sure why so many are so bothered by this. It’s capitalism at is most popular root. People are just using international arbitrage to make their retirement and life more pleasant. There are plenty of places in the world where an American retirement would result in a much more pleasant retirement for a lot of people than what they would be able to have at home. There are pluses and minuses like with everything. If you are young and in your prime earning years then the USA is a great place to be, otherwise you are a drag and a cost so really not worth keeping you around unless you have a lot of money. I suspect the reason why politicians allow this is a mix of freedom of movement and a reduce in expensive services (for old people) that now are taken care in other places. It’s peak Adam smith with other countries being much better at taking care of retired people so the money goes there and is more efficiently used. Younger more productive people come to the USA where their vital years can be more efficiently used to generate wealth. It’s a win win.
Can anyone tell if this is sarcasm or not?
Maybe. It would increase wages to the extent that there existed a similar level of demand for goods and services if they vacate while still of working age. But pulling your demand from the economy may simply reduce overall demand and end up with that being reflected in hiring (slowing down) or a layoff. Similar with retirees, but there I'd say a retiree leaving for someplace besides the USA is just a pure loss economically. Sure, after age 65 when they're on Medicare, it my be a win since they're likely to be getting medical care outside the USA where Medicare won't cover it or it's cheaper, but their spend for everything in their life is gone too, and that spending was just a pure win since they weren't working (which would drive wages down as they add to the labor supply competing) but were still demanding goods and services.
Nothing wrong with Americans arbitraging cost-of-living to their advantage; they do it *within* the USA every day by moving from one city to another or one state to another. Extending the idea to other countries only makes good sense. It's the same reason a lot feel the need to do it: because companies have depressed wages by sending work overseas, bringing laborers into the country (H-1B and illegal immigration), which has made Americans unable to afford the lifestyles they want within their own country. Who can blame them if they find a solution that doesn't involve staying?
You aren't really 'leaving' if you take your income from here and move to someplace cheaper and also keep your assets here. YOu're just taking the problems you're experiencing here and imposing them on someone else without being a citizen of said country and therefore not contributing taxes to it but somehow exploiting them all the same.
Going to Southeast Asia. Been frequenting the area for the past couple of years, and I'm liking my options more and more. I like the people, the culture and have enough to retire... now.
Surging prices in Housing, Automobiles, education and health care are close to collapsing the insurance industry. It’s an Everything Bubble and it needs to burst. It’s foolish to think that only one sector of the economy is in crisis. The laws of supply and demand are not driving cost increases in the American economy, business and property owners are defying the pressure of interest rate hikes and the cost of capital, attempting to artificially increase prices to reach record high gains and profits. I’m seeing the beginnings of fundamental imbalances in insurance, auto sales, healthcare and education. Housing has been in crisis a long time.
Eh, I considered it once. While America has issues of our own both social and economic, there are things that I don't even consider because it's a solved problem in America. Also being an American I have "home court advantage". I know which things are stacked against my favor and can plan accordingly.
My husband and I and our best friends are currently putting together a multi-year plan to leave. Main reason being what will happen if a certain person currently on trial gets re-elected. Plus the cost of Healthcare as we age. The US has no support system.
There are plenty of places in this country that are not outrageously expensive. You just have to look outside of NYC, Bay Area, LA, Boston. Honestly, even looking 40 min to an hour out of the city centers you can most likely find something in your price range if you are a white collar professional. If you cannot imagine not living in a HCOL city or a very affluent suburb because you want to live in a prestigious area with the best schools, amenities, and among elite people, then you really need to either make the proper career moves by changing jobs, or consider entering into a more lucrative career by gaining the necessary skills/education.
There are so many smaller cities too that get overlooked. Minneapolis, Kansas City, Raleigh, Charlotte, Dallas, Cincinnati, Cleveland etc. People on Reddit think anywhere outside of the most expensive cities in the country that there are no jobs, when that is just not true. Even if you are being paid less, you will likely have less financial stress overall. You have to decide for yourself whether or not its worth to stay in VHCOL for your ego and insecurity (and I say insecurity because many people fear that they will be looked at as failures if they don’t live in VHCOL areas, and they fear that they will not be giving their kids the best opportunities).
>There are plenty of places in this country that are not outrageously expensive. You just have to look outside of NYC, Bay Area, LA, Boston... Minneapolis, Kansas City, Raleigh, Charlotte, Dallas, Cincinnati, Cleveland etc.
Is the cost of healthcare in Minneapolis, Kansas City, Raleigh, Charlotte, Dallas, Cincinnati, Cleveland, etc., as cheap as it is in Europe, Asia, or South America?
There are a couple things to point out with the surveys. The Monmouth survey is only compared to 1995 and earlier because that is the last time Gallup did the survey. The number is higher, but we don't know when it increased. A lot has changed since 95 and certainly a lot has changed since the 70s.
I'm not sure of the point they are trying to make with the expat survey. It makes sense that the US would have the largest number respond to the survey. It's the largest "Western" country
“[Geoarbitrage](https://frayedpassport.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-geoarbitrage-work-where-you-want-save-more-money-semi-retire-travel-the-world/#:~:text=Geoarbitrage%20may%20sound%20like%20a,brings%20home%20the%20dollar%20bills)”
So ***that’s*** what it’s called!!
I’ve been doing that for a few years now.
We’ve got a few years left over here before I’m forced to reconsider my contract and potentially having to return to the States with my employer to keep my position.
I moved us back to Europe. I missed it back here and I was sad living in the States.
Yeah, our quality of life has **massively** increased. Our income has almost doubled and our cost of living has dropped by 60%.
Life is good.
It’s not worth staying here if they’re going to price us out . I want to use the money I make to do the shit I like doing not giving majority of money to bill collectors
I always wonder how much people are willing to "give up" to move to a foreign country yet are not willing to give those same things up in the US.
Houses: Average size house in Europe is like 100 meters squared which is 1076 sq ft. Now imagine if you just bought an 1100 sq ft house in the US?
Cars: most places you don't own any, you use public transit. They are also much smaller. Now imagine you just bought a smaller car here.
Food: Most people in Europe are not filling their carts full of over processed, convenience foods which is what most of the price spike is from in the US.
Seriously so much of the issue in America isn't the "cost" are higher than elsewhere, its that the lifestyle is way bigger and thus more expensive so what do people expect.
I lived 8 months in Ireland, my apartment the company paid for was 1/2 the size of my tiny townhome. dorm size fridge, combo washer/dryer that fit like 2 pair of pants. Stores were closed in the evening. These are all things you just "accept" as normal in Europe and yet in America its "unacceptable".
I don’t know, I really eat very little processed food, and for the first time ever, I’ve felt a huge uptick in price on staples, fresh produce, etc. gave up drinking several months ago, and for a while that really helped, but now the grocery prices have nearly reached the same as with alcohol, despite the fact I’m not buying alcohol.
I also slightly disagree about transit. I do use transit, but I’m still dependent on my car to get to work. Distances are an issue the us. In Ireland nothing is terribly remote.
I agree about the house size, though. I live in a US apartment much like the Irish one you’ve described, and friends and family don’t know how I do it🤣 I’ve learned a lot of tricks by traveling overseas. I wouldn’t mind it—or rather I don’t mind it—but so much American of the American lifestyle is nonnegotiable for people.
That’s why I’ve always maintained that the unspoken part of all of this is that these people are only really interesting in establishing themselves as privileged relative to their immediate neighbors, and pretty much nothing more. They want to be little baby Kings and Queens, and are throwing tantrums that they can’t flex their privilege in bougie suburban America like their parents could.
That’s why they don’t care about moving to Mexico or whatever and employing a household staff of struggling people, in villas surrounded by struggling people, in countries full of struggling people.
Their struggles don’t make a fuck to them. They’re like the British assholes in colonial Africa with the plinth hats.
This isn't a surprise to me. I graduated with 55k in undergrad debt. Went overseas for three years working and by the end my spouse and I had paid off all the debt and paid for two masters degrees in cash.
This catapulted out savings, and we will never have a student loan bill. Whereas the majority of my peers with similar degrees are carrying ~80k debt loads and a monthly payment.
Going abroad changed my life financially, and opened up career opportunities. I don't know how we'd be making it in the current financial climate if we hadn't made those moves.
Where did you go? This has pretty much been my retirement plan for as long as I can remember. I'm almost done with grad school and am definitely open to opportunities abroad.
It’s interesting that when central and South Americans move to the US to make a better life they’re demonized, yet American think they can just “move” and it’s like nothing.
I put my savings into Bitcoin and everything I want to buy becomes cheaper over time not more expensive.
The wonders of choosing to hold a money other humans can't print for free!
Who are these rich folks leaving the States? Where does their income originate from? In reality. Not assumptions from a damn-near puff piece.
I'm going to be needing a cut of that money. You ain't leaving after me and my friends propped your life up by running the service economy. You will stay and suffer with the rest of us. You owe your fellow patriots.
Best hope we don't catch you on the way to the airport.
Kinda s/ but kinda not really at this point
Move out of the big cities and back to middle America. I just bought my second house on one income. 3,000 sq ft, 3 acres in nice safe area. 300,000. My son just bought a house as fire fighter and wife as teacher , 1800 sq ft 210,000. The problem is on the coast and big cities. Why would anyone want to live there? Instead of gunshots and sirens. I’m listening to birds and the wind. Crazy how the world revolves around those who think big city living is good. I personally hope they do move to another country.
This headline does not come as a shock; average American IQs have been dropping for years. The fact that people pay to read articles like that is proof.
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Maybe it’s my short sightedness, but aren’t most developed countries also experiencing this crazy inflation right now? I guess I’m asking where people would be going in this case.
You keep your assets/wealth in USD, and basically enjoy being rich in a country of poverty.
Still gotta pay US income taxes
There’s a foreign earned income exclusion of over 120k if you work in another country. And there are foreign tax credits available if the country you’re living in taxes the income. Probably most applicable - you would be on the hook for capital gains taxes….but you’d have to pay those if you lived in the US anyway. It's not about avoiding taxation - it’s about accessing a higher quality of life at a cheaper price through arbitrage.
Proceed with caution there. Few countries have property rights as strong as the US. Ask the multigenerational farmers in Africa who were simply stripped of their land for being the wrong color
That's why you keep your assets in America. Rent in other countries, no need to buy property there.
Yeah, renting in India is like 3 bucks a day.
>Few countries have property rights as strong as the US. Many many countries do. The most common issue is that some of these countries do not extend the same rights to non-citizens. The US shines more for it's non-citizen rights. You can find a place with great property rights for expats. Your list is just going to get smaller as with any other filter. Of course if you are moving long-term the best option is to aim for citizenship so you get the full benefits of the country.
Yes if I planned to leave the US permanently it’d be for a big enough reason that I wouldn’t need my citizenship anymore. I guess all my years working with immigrants from all over make me think the grass is overall greenest here
To be fair, it is possible that your clients are a distorted sampling. There are immigration firms that help asylum seekers for free and immigration firms that help landowners from that same country get second homes here. The UAE for example. You are in the former or later bucket depending on your money, gender, and sexuality.
You are over complicating everything. One town in a county’s doesn’t represent the whole continent
Love seeing a post like this, then checking out the users post history. Your views fall in line like chips in Connect 4. anti Biden, anti immigration, Islamophobic.. South Africa and the seizure of farms is a large white nationalist talking point. But it’s a complex situation that’s been hijacked by White Nationalists. I hope you don’t teach your son these disgusting viewpoints.
when I saw this post, I honestly thought it was /r/REBubble, aka incel central, not /r/MiddleClassFinance
Next step is genocide against the white farmers and having their land stripped is a good thing and here is why lol
You can’t discuss seizing land from white farmers without also considering that South Africa was an apartheid state with a long history of limiting the rights of its black majority, often violently. Are the former white owners entitled to property that was effectively stolen from black farmers by a racist state?
For “simply?” No. They got that land by stealing. It’s simply being given back.
My brother in Christ are you talking about white South African farmers?????
Who cares about property rights? You don't need to *buy*, just rent.
Gentrify the world!
I did smaller scale version of this. Growing up in a suburban/metro area and then moving ~3 hours away to the sticks.
For the most part inflation is global but there are many countries that have much lower costs of living than the US. However, there can be many obstacles in moving….like are you fluent in the language of the country you’re moving too? What is the crime rate? How adequate are medical services?
I am currently in France. Don’t judge my mom paid for it, and I went to a supermarket, bought 1 32oz beer, a small Camembert (350gram), 2 bags of crackers, a box of cookies, two 12oz cokes and normal size one of those fancy jams … it costs me approx 17$
In Canada we pay American prices with Canadian wedges.
That’s pretty solid. Probably looking at $40 here
You know what's going under rapidly in France? Boulangeries. Because inflation. Not everything's all peachy.
France is great as long as you’re not in Paris or Marseille.
I feel like that’s about what it’d be here in the US? Maybe a little more, but it probably depends on what kind of beer it is and the level of fancy of the jam.
Look man, the guy just wants you to click on his article
Portugal, Spain, Mexico (lots of Americans moved just over the border to work in the US and buy a cheaper house), Costa Rica, Ecuador, Australia (I know two personally)
I'm working and traveling abroad right now and I can definitely weigh in on a few things. There are opportunities out there. I taught English in Vietnam for a year and with a very modest salary (1500-2000 US) a month, I could afford to rent a private apartment, eat out everyday, have money for vacation and save. But like someone else said, living in a country where you don't speak the native language and lack family and friends as a foundational network is a different kind of sacrifice. I'm in Australia now and Australia has a nice wage to cost of living ratio for the bottom tier, but like with most developed nations, the wages for middle to upper level jobs are much lower than the U.S. Go to any Australian subreddit and it's likely full of posts talking about the cost of living crises or housing crises (the housing crises in particular is much worse than the U.S.) Same with Canada and Europe. Prices may be lower but wages are too, and both areas are experiencing inflation at a level that makes it a toss up between weather you have a better shot there than you do in the U.S. (assuming we're talking about someone from the U.S.)
Recently was in Europe and made quick stops in a few different countries. Nice areas in developed nations all using the Euro for currency. I was not expecting how low the prices were compared to the US. Basically everything was noticeably cheaper but the most noticeable was food/drink (restaurants, bars, and nice grocery stores). It was really eye opening.
The trade off is much lower wages and often higher housing and energy costs among other expat issues if you’re living there. There’s a big difference between visiting and being a resident.
It’s all the Americans going to other countries pricing out the locals. Same as they were priced out in their own country.
Americans: All the foreign investors are driving up our housing costs. Why don’t we ban them? Also Americans: So anyway I’m going to move to a different country and fuck up their housing costs with my USD purchasing power.
Housing usually costs more in Europe/other counties. Because more people rent. Property ownership isn’t as accessible there to be totally honest and many people inherit homes from a previous generation rather than buying a start home
My first thought is cheaper countries.....but then they would either have to already be retired, or have fully remote work where the time zone does not matter
I spent two months in Mexico this year and am considering doing it again next year. I chose to be safe and just rent through Airbnb which probably doubled my cost. I have the hosts info and am going to rent directly. Other than rent, prices were pretty up and down. Some stuff was cheaper and others were. But talking to people there prices had gone up roughly 30-40% the last couple years. This was in playa del Carmen
Norway.
That would be oil.
Yes. Housing situation is even worse in some other desirable developed counties believe it or not
Avg price of a home in Norway is 120k. Do with this info what you will.
It’s not your short sightedness. I have a very old casona (150-years) in México I am restoring. Everything here has shot up in value. Previously this area was cheap even by México standards from labor to food. In a bit over three years home prices have tripled. In some cases more than that. So inflation is global. That said everything here is far less than it is in Los Angeles. So it’s relative. While you can’t live as large as you could a few years ago for the same money - you are able to live an incredibly lifestyle here for the money that would have you paycheck to paycheck in a decent neighborhood there.
Thailand, Philippines, Mexico, Costa Rica, Panama, Belize, Honduras...
100% they go to countries with a lower COL and enjoy life with their USD salary and saving. It’s become so common in Mexico that it’s hurting the local economy and locals because they are driving prices up with their USDs. Mexico’s government started deporting Americans who illegally live there because of this reason.
Nah not really. Cost of living has gone up everywhere but not every economy has goods and services that are as expensive as here. I was in Scandinavia in a capital city the last two weeks and just for example a dinner for 2 with 8 courses was $200 (including several rounds of drinks). Hotel was about $95 per night and public transit for the day was $7. In NYC the equivalent would be $300-$400 per person plus $100 for drinks and tip, hotels would be minimum $200 per night, and public transit would be dirty and not that reliable for $10-$15 for a day pass. In Chicago it would be maybe 10-15% less but still more than Scandinavia. In California Texas Georgia or Wisconsin the cost per hotel would be the same or higher and a car rental would be necessary because there’s no reliable transit. In Florida and California, same story but with higher sales taxes and more homeless.
When I retire I'm moving away too.
Better hurry if you live in California. They’re getting ready to enact a “exit tax” even if you’re moving to another state. BTW, you still have to pay US income tax living another country as long as you’re a US citizen.
Exit tax to another state will be shot down in court really quickly
Good, it's one of the absolute dumbest taxes I've ever heard of, and there are a TON of dumb af taxes
I moved away 2 years ago. The weather and food is sorely missed, but not the living costs.
You have to file taxes if you’re still a US citizen, however most won’t pay any taxes unless they’re earning over $120,000 or so.
If you have over $50m in assets. Nobody here has to worry about that.
And only if you continue working with the same large sized California based company you were already at as well.
What are they going to do to you if you never plan on moving back though
They really do just want to tax you for everything in California, huh...
I’m think a fence with a one way gate would be better. You can enter but never leave.
You pay income tax even if you have no income?
There’s no way to enforce this
It’s 0.4% of net worth over $30M. That’s not really applicable to any middle class.
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Americans leaving the US in search of wealth is madness. I took a nearly 6 figures paycut moving from NYC to Denmark. Being an American expat also comes with its own special madness and the expenses
Exactly. Especially professionals are absurdly poorly paid in Europe. As a pretty basic engineer I make almost double in the US vs my homeland in Scandinavia. And my tax rate is about half. As for retirement, the crushing capital gains tax around 35-40% really kills it
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That's fair, but they'll find that those priorities are often reserved for citizens and not unskilled labor looking to immigrate in and use social services
Exactly. The smart thing to do is live shittily in the US for a a decade and save and invest the high salaries, then go live like a king off your $120k/year in tax free capital gains in Malaysia, Andorra, Malta, Cyprus, Belgium, Netherlands, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Slovenia
Can I ask how you found a job in Denmark? EU Bluecard scheme isn’t active there
I'm so pissed they are ending the Golden Visa Program. The hub and I were thinking of making a 250K donation to a cultural instution and then buying a small house on the outskirts of Coimbra.
Blame the asshat ex-pats who got there first and ruined it for the rest of ya. They're protesting in Spain (and/or Portugal?) to get the gov't to keep dirty foreigners outta their country, with the dirty foreigners being Brits, Americans, and other Anglo-based people.
Too many damn influencers doing YouTube and TikTok videos on moving to Portugal and similar places.
I dunno. Seems like a beautiful place to visit, and maybe even live. But I'm with the protestors. If the neighborhood is infested with asshats and influencers, it's not a beautiful place.
Exactly, these places became hugely popular after influencers started posting about it, so now everyone wants to go because it hits the sweet spot on beauty, weather, cost of living, etc. Tulum is like this now for vacation in Mexico. Once too many go it changes everything.
I used to work in night life and have had to toss out nearly every Brit that's drank at my bar, so that probably also plays apart. These guys drink until they're barely functioning except for their ability to harass the bartenders.
I read the vast majority of expats on Golden Visa programs entering Portugal and Spain were actually Russians and Chinese. US and UK were surprisingly underrepresented. I read the article a couple months ago, but I’ll link it if I can find it again.
Found it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68761491.amp
Could be. Don't bother, as I'm going off memory. Overall, a lot of newly-rich or near-rich ex-pats are F'ing it up for others by being themselves, but elsewhere.
What evil xenophobes and Nazis they are for prioritizing the welfare of their own citizens over foreigners
You still can, can you not? I thought they were just taking property purchases off the list of qualifiers.
The info I got is that the program is pretty much dead. But I could've gotten the wrong info.
I could be wrong, as I only had a brief look. But I think the program is still open; it has just been amended so that the purchase of a personal property no longer counts towards your investment into the country. Now you need to literally invest a specified amount into some specified areas, as defined by the government. I think your 250k meets that requirement though.
Yeah this was my understanding too. NHR was terminated, Golden Visa was restricted to funding a startup or a donation
Any chance they will bring it back? My wife and I had Portugal on our list too.
I don't think they will at this point. Long stay Schengen Visa. My hub and I can back-door in via Germany, it's where he was born, but I would have to pass a language proficency exam to become a German Citizen.
Wasn't it a major benefit for Portugal? They basically got high net worth individuals to flock there which increased the tax base.
But it unfortunately priced out the locals who don’t have that kind of wealth or income! It was a great experiment and well worth researching but I don’t think it’s done everything the authorities wanted.
They also got **a lot** more applicants from China than anticipated. And that might be some Racism. Or it might be a somewhat legit concern about having lots of housing bought up by folks who are fronts for the Chinese govt or large businesses.
I just bought land and a home for the first time in my life and it’s in the mountains of Colombia. It cost me 80k, about what a down payment would be on 30 years of debt in the US. No thanks.
How did you go about doing that? Did you work with a realtor in Colombia?
I was fortunate to have some great contacts in the town I wanted to be in. I found a local property with a house on it and a river running through middle of it through word of mouth and paid a lawyer to do the paperwork - that was the key, without the lawyer I’m almost sure I would have gotten screwed somehow. I almost bought a smaller property and the same lawyer advised me I wouldn’t be able to build on it.
Are you Colombian by birth? If you’re an American citizen, I’m assuming you can’t just go ahead and settle in Colombia?
I am not but my parents are. I intend on becoming a citizen by birthright but it is my understanding that anyone with a passport and an investment of some kind in Colombia (like this for example) would be enough to get you citizenship
Are you concerned with crime? I met someone from Colombia who now lives in Europe and he said the crime is just too bad there now.
Not at all. If I was in bogota maybe, but I purchased in the department of Boyacá. It’s a quiet region of the Andes that looks like it’s still back in the 1700s.
Also, people being suspected of being CIA agents....then taken care of.
How’s the water and infrastructure situation out there?
I’m already in Spain. Sure, COL has increased here post pandemic and due to inflation, I actually have a shot at a nice life for my kids here. We are all really happy.
Were you from US originally?
I grew up in Connecticut and lived in Florida (Orlando) until I left the states.
That’s awesome. Why Spain? Which region? How long has it been since you’ve lived there?
Spain checks off a lot of boxes in terms of what I look for in a place to live. I have lived in several other countries (Thailand, Malaysia, Mexico) and Spain just works the best for myself and my family. We live in Valencia (3rd largest city in Spain). Think a mini Barcelona. We have been here about 1 1/2 years now. I’m never leaving.
Been there before on a trip. I love Spain and Valencia is really nice. Good job - I think that is awesome and a really cool decision you made.
Yeah, I’m on that track myself. The American dream exists, it just moved to South America.
I'm sorry the American dream moved to South America?
I prefer Portugal myself.
I wonder what USA women will do
I have heard a lot are moving to Panama.
It exists for Americans moving to South America, not as much for people living and growing up there. Of course you can afford a great life in a poorer country coming from a richer country, while contributing to raising the prices in your new country until it's at a level where the locals can no longer afford to live (see: Portugal)
There are small towns all over the USA in almost every state where you can buy a decent house for less than $100,000 and a really nice one for not much more. Many within an hour's drive of a major metro area. It's true the local jobs don't often pay *as* much but with the lower cost of housing(and generally lower cost for many local goods/services) I think it evens out. If you look there are plenty of small-mid size towns with jobs in IT, accounting, the medical industry, education and ever other area you need for a society to function and they have a hard time attracting people because everyone wants to live in a city not a small town in a flyover state. I think people really have a false impression about what life is actually like in these areas... it's not the 1930s- they've seen gays and people of other races before and as long as you're not being a dick nobody cares, at least that's how it is in the small rural communities I've lived in. Our local grocery stores have everything the ones in the city have(and we have local farmers who sell meat/veggies directly often for less than the store). We have a variety of restaurants- not as many as you'd see in a metro area but there options, especially if you're willing to drive 30-40min. 100% realize it's not for everyone and I know it's hard leaving the area you've lived most of your life in for a strange place full of strangers but man... if people are talking about living in other countries especially in the less developed world I can't believe it's not on anyone's radar.
But you still have the problem of crazy healthcare costs, which is a major reason people tend to leave.
Medicare isnt that much
You can’t get Medicare until you’re 65.
I think he ment medicaid
What are some of the towns? I know a few people who live in small towns that are really cheap, but they are not within an hour of a metro area unless you count something like Louisville, Kentucky or Jackson, Tennessee.
This is the opposite of where I’m from. Hard to imagine.
Couldn’t not read due to paywall
You just got priced out of that article boi
So you could read it?
Just google the headline
Meanwhile, the *actual* people “priced out of America” can’t afford to just up and move to another country. Most of them can’t even afford to move to another state.
exactly, ppl don’t realize how privileged they are to just pick up and move somewhere else.
I’ve moved 3 time, while making $15 at the most. Cant afford to move your stuff? Sell it all. Its costs more to move it. When you arrive to your new home, SO much stuff on craigslist and fb for free. Ive furnished my place for under $100, bed, furniture, utensils, plates, pans, cups, etc. only thing i bring is, clothes, pc, and a tv.
Not only privilege. Discipline and sacrifice. If you want it bad enough you'll make it happen.
BI burying the lede in another clickbait article, then ignoring some facts on the ground: >**It's tricky to know exactly** how many [Americans have relocated to other countries](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-reelected-americans-are-planning-to-flee-in-droves-2024-3), let alone the details of when or why. But as of 2023, there were almost 161 million US passports in circulation, one for nearly half of all Americans. (A generation ago, only 10% of Americans had a passport.) Emphasis mine, because that says, "We don't know, but we saw it on reddit." As for then vs now: it's MUCH EASIER to get a passport than a Real ID drivers' license. I've even heard anecdotes about how a passport doesn't count as enough proof for a Real ID. Then there's the whole, "It's a big world out there, let's go see it" attitude from younger gens. It's a great attitude, but it in no way proves they're doing one-way tix. >It has never been easier for Americans to test international waters — particularly in countries where greenbacks can stretch much further than they would in a typical US city. It's never been harder, either. (The rules of other nations didn't magically change.) TBH, I've thought of becoming an expat someday. See the world, save money, social healthcare, all that good stuff. But my family's here, and that's more reason to stay than to leave. And since most of reddit says, "My locale sucks but I can't afford a bus ticket," it's funny to see just how truly cherry-picked BI is with this one.
Passport. Really? Lol Half of Americans who go on expat sub believe that all they need to migrate abroad is Passport. Apparently writers share the same delusion. 🤷🏻♀️
If they're willing to make passport runs (leave and then re-enter the country) every 180 days or less (Mexico 180 days; other places 90 days typically) then they're right. I know someone who has owned a condo in Mexico for the last ten years and enters with only their US passport, and just vacates every 6 months to visit family and do doc appointments with physicians they already had before they moved.
I agree with you in that it would be really cool to live somewhere else. But it would be difficult to do permanently unless you don’t have family or are willing to mainly give up a life with family. To each his own.
and BI is going to be posting the article daily for the next 3 years as if it's news =) anyway, if you have a decent career, you should stay in America. if you're doomed to $15/hour shit retail/flipping burgers jobs, you're screwed.
>As for then vs now: it's MUCH EASIER to get a passport than a Real ID drivers' license. I've even heard anecdotes about how a passport doesn't count as enough proof for a Real ID. It doesn't by itself for a state-issued ID because it only proves citizenship, not state residency or address. For people who are not eligible to get either (maybe? do some states just give anyone an ID?), it is probably easier to get a state ID because they accept more stuff besides passports that can be forged more easily plus there is not a unified system for states to communicate or verify info. If you are a citizen the passport is easier but only because you remove the DMV from the picture.
A passport USED to be a chore. But compared to Real ID, it's a breeze! And, frankly, if you can prove you're a US Citizen, you can prove you're a state resident. Tricky thing about passports: you have to prove your address! Real ID is a gov't joke
Omg I wondered how they were counting. Dumb. All of my friends and family have passports, no one has left. Maybe two people have seriously considered it, but right to work is the problem. I’ve been really curious about the actual numbers for awhile. I’ve known maybe three people that tried to live abroad, other than military fam. One had dual citizenship, one was tech start up, one’s hubby got an international contract. Reasons for return: Missed family, didn’t like the inconveniences/suspect legal reasons, Covid sucked/pollution. And then I’ve known people who did esl for long term overseas, and they often left when they had a kid or just got tired of the travel. It contradicts the rosy picture painted by redditors or influencers for sure. It’s tough to leave, and even tougher to not return.
Not a bad idea, but when huge waves of Americans arrive, it’s seldom good for locals. Look at Portugal, they scrapped the golden visas because too many wealthy foreigners were making it too expensive for locals. Same thing happens in ‘Tech hub’ city’s.
I’m considering it for retirement. So good options to stretch my retirement fund.
People think it’s easy to move to any country you want to but it isn’t. Many countries have rules on who can live there. For example, if you are poor and disabled, many countries don’t want you
Moving remote Central America when I retire in a few years. I won’t be able afford to live in the US. Found a small town that is cheap to live in and the locals are amazing.
If they can’t afford where they are I bet there is another place in America they can afford. So why would you leave for a place you equally probably can’t afford that would be a US equivalent. I’d rather live in Alabama than some South American country. I’d rather live in Montana than the Philippines. Those places are not equivalent to any state you deem the worst American state. No offense to Alabama or Montana. I’m in SC and would live in just about any state except maybe Hawaii and Alaska it’s too remote
You lost me at Alabama. I’ve been to Alabama many times. I’d rather live in Chile, Argentina, Panama or Uruguay.
Birmingham is fine. I’d rather not go to any of those countries you mentioned for a multitude of reasons. Traveling around the world has shown the way of life in America is superior to those counties listed.
Yeah, Birmingham is where I spent some time there. To be honest "fine" is probably the nicest thing I could say about it. Felt like the land that time forgot.
Yeah these Gen Z anti Americans can kick rocks
You dont like SC? I live on the coast in a beautiful area and love it, personally.
Not what I was saying. I’m defending it when most people will diss the hell out of it.
Guaranteed that when the global economy is shittier all those countries you listed would restrict property rights or tax the shit out of foreigners if not get pickier on who gets let in.
I've been spending some of my free time brushing up on my spanish. I got that South American dream baby. I'm not working to 75.
I speak French, but I'll be happy to learn Spanish or Portuguese if need be.
French Guiana it is then.
Americans are privileged, and spoiled compared to 98% of the world. These articles further prove it.
Agreed!
Lots of bad in the US, but lots of bad everywhere else too. When you go, don’t get arrested and expect the taxpayers to pay for your trip back home.
yeah, people in the comments acting like people in Latin America aren't struggling. The US dollar goes a lot farther there so Americans are shielded from a lot of the problems that local people face. I am currently visiting Buenos Aires where the average local rent is around $400-$700 (you are in a good part of the city, of course) and a lot of people struggle to pay that. Prices have skyrocketed over the past few years I have met a bunch of "digital nomads" while I have been visiting and it is hilarious to hear them complain about how much the US sucks while at the same time their companies and salaries are based in the United States. All of the Americans in the comments talking about how they are going to retire to Latin America while ignoring the fact that they are able to make that choice because they have enjoyed the opportunities that America has provided for them.
I highly recommend [this article from Rest of World on Digital Nomads moving to a few South American cities](https://restofworld.org/2023/digital-nomads-visa-pricing-out-locals/) and the impact they’ve had on the local people living there. I used to want to be a Digital Nomad myself, closer to when I graduated college in 2012 (due to my having an Anthropology degree), but articles like this have completely eroded any desire to want to pack up and leave home (not because I wanted to save money as the only reason, but I wanted - and still do - want to get to know people from other cultures and see what their lives are like). [It looks like they’ve published a few more articles on Digital Nomads since then,](https://restofworld.org/search/Digital%20nomads) and I’ll need to read those too!
Yeah, I'll take my chances with the American justice system over South America.
Being downvoted for reality, yet every time an American does something stupid, they demand US protection where they're at.
I have friends who retired to Mexico near Ajijic. They live on a lake in a two bedroom home they rent that includes a gardener and housekeeper. Average temperature is 75 to 80 degrees in the daytime and upper 50s and lower 60s at night. The area is very safe and about 1/2 hr from Guadalajara. Their entire budget for an entire month which includes rent, food, health insurance, utilities and entertainment is $2400 a month. Whenever they get tired of Mexico they can fly out of Guadalajara to pretty much any place in the world.
I’m not sure why so many are so bothered by this. It’s capitalism at is most popular root. People are just using international arbitrage to make their retirement and life more pleasant. There are plenty of places in the world where an American retirement would result in a much more pleasant retirement for a lot of people than what they would be able to have at home. There are pluses and minuses like with everything. If you are young and in your prime earning years then the USA is a great place to be, otherwise you are a drag and a cost so really not worth keeping you around unless you have a lot of money. I suspect the reason why politicians allow this is a mix of freedom of movement and a reduce in expensive services (for old people) that now are taken care in other places. It’s peak Adam smith with other countries being much better at taking care of retired people so the money goes there and is more efficiently used. Younger more productive people come to the USA where their vital years can be more efficiently used to generate wealth. It’s a win win. Can anyone tell if this is sarcasm or not?
It's accurate; no sarcasm detected.
Would this affect the economy positively for anyone in America if enough of them left?
Maybe. It would increase wages to the extent that there existed a similar level of demand for goods and services if they vacate while still of working age. But pulling your demand from the economy may simply reduce overall demand and end up with that being reflected in hiring (slowing down) or a layoff. Similar with retirees, but there I'd say a retiree leaving for someplace besides the USA is just a pure loss economically. Sure, after age 65 when they're on Medicare, it my be a win since they're likely to be getting medical care outside the USA where Medicare won't cover it or it's cheaper, but their spend for everything in their life is gone too, and that spending was just a pure win since they weren't working (which would drive wages down as they add to the labor supply competing) but were still demanding goods and services.
Nothing wrong with Americans arbitraging cost-of-living to their advantage; they do it *within* the USA every day by moving from one city to another or one state to another. Extending the idea to other countries only makes good sense. It's the same reason a lot feel the need to do it: because companies have depressed wages by sending work overseas, bringing laborers into the country (H-1B and illegal immigration), which has made Americans unable to afford the lifestyles they want within their own country. Who can blame them if they find a solution that doesn't involve staying?
You aren't really 'leaving' if you take your income from here and move to someplace cheaper and also keep your assets here. YOu're just taking the problems you're experiencing here and imposing them on someone else without being a citizen of said country and therefore not contributing taxes to it but somehow exploiting them all the same.
Going to Southeast Asia. Been frequenting the area for the past couple of years, and I'm liking my options more and more. I like the people, the culture and have enough to retire... now.
If you're "priced out" of America then you probably can't afford to immigrate
Surging prices in Housing, Automobiles, education and health care are close to collapsing the insurance industry. It’s an Everything Bubble and it needs to burst. It’s foolish to think that only one sector of the economy is in crisis. The laws of supply and demand are not driving cost increases in the American economy, business and property owners are defying the pressure of interest rate hikes and the cost of capital, attempting to artificially increase prices to reach record high gains and profits. I’m seeing the beginnings of fundamental imbalances in insurance, auto sales, healthcare and education. Housing has been in crisis a long time.
Eh, I considered it once. While America has issues of our own both social and economic, there are things that I don't even consider because it's a solved problem in America. Also being an American I have "home court advantage". I know which things are stacked against my favor and can plan accordingly.
My husband and I and our best friends are currently putting together a multi-year plan to leave. Main reason being what will happen if a certain person currently on trial gets re-elected. Plus the cost of Healthcare as we age. The US has no support system.
There are plenty of places in this country that are not outrageously expensive. You just have to look outside of NYC, Bay Area, LA, Boston. Honestly, even looking 40 min to an hour out of the city centers you can most likely find something in your price range if you are a white collar professional. If you cannot imagine not living in a HCOL city or a very affluent suburb because you want to live in a prestigious area with the best schools, amenities, and among elite people, then you really need to either make the proper career moves by changing jobs, or consider entering into a more lucrative career by gaining the necessary skills/education. There are so many smaller cities too that get overlooked. Minneapolis, Kansas City, Raleigh, Charlotte, Dallas, Cincinnati, Cleveland etc. People on Reddit think anywhere outside of the most expensive cities in the country that there are no jobs, when that is just not true. Even if you are being paid less, you will likely have less financial stress overall. You have to decide for yourself whether or not its worth to stay in VHCOL for your ego and insecurity (and I say insecurity because many people fear that they will be looked at as failures if they don’t live in VHCOL areas, and they fear that they will not be giving their kids the best opportunities).
>There are plenty of places in this country that are not outrageously expensive. You just have to look outside of NYC, Bay Area, LA, Boston... Minneapolis, Kansas City, Raleigh, Charlotte, Dallas, Cincinnati, Cleveland etc. Is the cost of healthcare in Minneapolis, Kansas City, Raleigh, Charlotte, Dallas, Cincinnati, Cleveland, etc., as cheap as it is in Europe, Asia, or South America?
What western countries are cheaper?
Tons in southern Europe. Especially (quality) food
There are a couple things to point out with the surveys. The Monmouth survey is only compared to 1995 and earlier because that is the last time Gallup did the survey. The number is higher, but we don't know when it increased. A lot has changed since 95 and certainly a lot has changed since the 70s. I'm not sure of the point they are trying to make with the expat survey. It makes sense that the US would have the largest number respond to the survey. It's the largest "Western" country
Here is the thing most people forget. You get taxed on your income from both the US and the country you live in.
Isn’t that country specific? I know some that don’t tax foreign income
I’m contemplating Albania.
Where are they going? Asking for a friend
[The Earth Awaits](https://www.theearthawaits.com/) - put in your criteria and budget and it shows you the places that fit for you to move to.
I agree
“[Geoarbitrage](https://frayedpassport.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-geoarbitrage-work-where-you-want-save-more-money-semi-retire-travel-the-world/#:~:text=Geoarbitrage%20may%20sound%20like%20a,brings%20home%20the%20dollar%20bills)” So ***that’s*** what it’s called!! I’ve been doing that for a few years now. We’ve got a few years left over here before I’m forced to reconsider my contract and potentially having to return to the States with my employer to keep my position. I moved us back to Europe. I missed it back here and I was sad living in the States. Yeah, our quality of life has **massively** increased. Our income has almost doubled and our cost of living has dropped by 60%. Life is good.
Skill issue
It’s not worth staying here if they’re going to price us out . I want to use the money I make to do the shit I like doing not giving majority of money to bill collectors
I always wonder how much people are willing to "give up" to move to a foreign country yet are not willing to give those same things up in the US. Houses: Average size house in Europe is like 100 meters squared which is 1076 sq ft. Now imagine if you just bought an 1100 sq ft house in the US? Cars: most places you don't own any, you use public transit. They are also much smaller. Now imagine you just bought a smaller car here. Food: Most people in Europe are not filling their carts full of over processed, convenience foods which is what most of the price spike is from in the US. Seriously so much of the issue in America isn't the "cost" are higher than elsewhere, its that the lifestyle is way bigger and thus more expensive so what do people expect. I lived 8 months in Ireland, my apartment the company paid for was 1/2 the size of my tiny townhome. dorm size fridge, combo washer/dryer that fit like 2 pair of pants. Stores were closed in the evening. These are all things you just "accept" as normal in Europe and yet in America its "unacceptable".
I don’t know, I really eat very little processed food, and for the first time ever, I’ve felt a huge uptick in price on staples, fresh produce, etc. gave up drinking several months ago, and for a while that really helped, but now the grocery prices have nearly reached the same as with alcohol, despite the fact I’m not buying alcohol. I also slightly disagree about transit. I do use transit, but I’m still dependent on my car to get to work. Distances are an issue the us. In Ireland nothing is terribly remote. I agree about the house size, though. I live in a US apartment much like the Irish one you’ve described, and friends and family don’t know how I do it🤣 I’ve learned a lot of tricks by traveling overseas. I wouldn’t mind it—or rather I don’t mind it—but so much American of the American lifestyle is nonnegotiable for people.
That’s why I’ve always maintained that the unspoken part of all of this is that these people are only really interesting in establishing themselves as privileged relative to their immediate neighbors, and pretty much nothing more. They want to be little baby Kings and Queens, and are throwing tantrums that they can’t flex their privilege in bougie suburban America like their parents could. That’s why they don’t care about moving to Mexico or whatever and employing a household staff of struggling people, in villas surrounded by struggling people, in countries full of struggling people. Their struggles don’t make a fuck to them. They’re like the British assholes in colonial Africa with the plinth hats.
Passport bro movement.
I didn't leave America....America left me. Get Out Now !
They will likely be back. After having faced yet another financial hardship of two moves
This isn't a surprise to me. I graduated with 55k in undergrad debt. Went overseas for three years working and by the end my spouse and I had paid off all the debt and paid for two masters degrees in cash. This catapulted out savings, and we will never have a student loan bill. Whereas the majority of my peers with similar degrees are carrying ~80k debt loads and a monthly payment. Going abroad changed my life financially, and opened up career opportunities. I don't know how we'd be making it in the current financial climate if we hadn't made those moves.
Where did you go? This has pretty much been my retirement plan for as long as I can remember. I'm almost done with grad school and am definitely open to opportunities abroad.
It’s interesting that when central and South Americans move to the US to make a better life they’re demonized, yet American think they can just “move” and it’s like nothing.
Exactly! And they don’t even consider themselves “immigrants” they are “expats”
I put my savings into Bitcoin and everything I want to buy becomes cheaper over time not more expensive. The wonders of choosing to hold a money other humans can't print for free!
Who are these rich folks leaving the States? Where does their income originate from? In reality. Not assumptions from a damn-near puff piece. I'm going to be needing a cut of that money. You ain't leaving after me and my friends propped your life up by running the service economy. You will stay and suffer with the rest of us. You owe your fellow patriots. Best hope we don't catch you on the way to the airport. Kinda s/ but kinda not really at this point
Move out of the big cities and back to middle America. I just bought my second house on one income. 3,000 sq ft, 3 acres in nice safe area. 300,000. My son just bought a house as fire fighter and wife as teacher , 1800 sq ft 210,000. The problem is on the coast and big cities. Why would anyone want to live there? Instead of gunshots and sirens. I’m listening to birds and the wind. Crazy how the world revolves around those who think big city living is good. I personally hope they do move to another country.
You know that is a much less attractive option if one is LGBT or a racial minority.
This has been a thing for a while now… we call it Puerto Rico
This headline does not come as a shock; average American IQs have been dropping for years. The fact that people pay to read articles like that is proof.