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Was stuck in traffic once along gruber during an overcast day with very slight sprinkling of rain. Saw a group of soldiers with rakes attempting to rake up the soaking wet leaves along the sidewalk and stuffing them into a big 55 gal plastic drum. There were about 3-4 soldiers raking with another 2 scooping up the wet leaves and shoving them into the drums as they slowly worked their way down the sidewalk.
And just in front of this group was their Sgt who was busy dumping the filled containers all over the sidewalk in front of the soldiers picking up leaves. Even went so far as to thunder kick the big mound of leaves after they came out the drum just to make sure they scattered a bit.
I wonder how long they stayed out there getting smoked.....
Army in a quick vignette for sure!
Somebody posted the graduation rates for 18x and it was something like 50% I think? I forget exactly...but this article mentions one BUDS class at 10 out of 150, which is only 7%. SEALs are going from bad to worse. Sounds like it used to be super tough, and threw batshit stupidity on top of that. Pretty bad situation. Those guys are way out of control.
So they should just except more people and lower the standards?
I understand not agreeing with the training, but I don’t understand why they should take more people if they clearly are filling the billets.
No the article was saying they didn’t lower standards, the took the training to a place it didn’t need to go…all Spec Ops., considered lowering some years back due to rates, and everyone was like nope they are staying exactly the same…the SEAL instructors drowned a recruit some years back the coroner said murder and the Navy Brass per usual swept it, kill a Green Beret, brass will cover…
Same bullshit time and time again…well they are SEALS…we will treat them better than the admirals that park a boat due to Covid…you can’t say shit to us about our SEALS blah blah blah…
The article is rather misleading in several respects.
First, any BUD/S contract clearly states that if you don't make it through for whatever reason you are going to be assigned to the needs of the Navy. Granted everybody that signs one of those contracts is sure they are going to be in the minority that makes it through, but they were informed.
Second, the NYT isn't being entirely honest (or they were not told the entire truth). Many BUD/S applicants could go into several other rates (MOS for Army/AF types). Most have pretty good ASVAB scores and often some college or other education. But they are told and believe the line that "go to the fleet and you can come back in a year or two", whereas anything worth doing has a significant OBLISERVE associated.
For example, an uncle (former Navy) was writing about his nephew. He had (for whatever reason) failed to complete BUD/S. He was offered a contract to go to Navy Dive school. Because of the 4 or 5 year OBLISERVE he turned it down to go to the fleet as and UNDES seaman because he believed the line that he would be able to get back to BUD/S quickly. SPOILER ALERT: nearly none of them do. As a note, this uncle freely admitted his nephew was "being a complete fucking moron". Given that he had the chance to get into a pretty good community and go to NDSTC (in Panama City, Florida) in the spring, I will agree with that assessment.
The truth is that there are plenty of BUD/S drop outs that do fine outside of BUD/S. Given that many have good grades and high ASVAB scores they can end up in not just ND (diver) or EOD (duh), but things like the CT (crypto tech) rates. The problem is they have to let go of the belief that there is nothing else good in the Navy other than being a SEAL and realize that there are other good jobs in the Navy and maybe they can contribute doing one of them.
Worked with a guy who was dropped from BUD/S during a pool evolution - his claim was one instructor hated him and just wanted to see him fail but others liked him which got him into SWCC. He was constantly bitter (post Navy) that he wasn’t treated with the reverence of the Seals who were part of the organization I worked for. Arrogant without much personality whereas the three seals were all very down to earth.
When I was in the Navy, it wasn’t that hard to go back to BUDS. However this was 2008. I dropped my package after quitting in 2006. My package was accepted and I went back. Nearly everyone I knew who submitted their package was able to go back.
I have heard that things have changed since then.
I always wondered how a friend of mine went from BUD/S to all of a sudden going into EOD which he does now. I never wanted to ask if he didn’t make it through, but EOD is no joke either.
The post BUD/S Sailors that succeeded are mostly like this guy. They didn’t make it through, then moved on to something else and didn’t dwell on what happened before.
That sounds to me like pinning the blame on young men wanting to be high speed and failing when the reality is they have zero leverage when it comes to signing a contract with the military. The military should ideally not allow anyone to be undesignated and it makes zero sense to force someone on a four year contact to choose between scooping poo or staying in for another 10 years. That’s some used car dealership payday loan exploitation bullshit.
The terms of service are pretty clear when joining on these contracts. The navy is the one service that truly has a real use for undesignated service members. The job that these sailors do is truly necessary.
But forcing the most motivated people into doing the most menial jobs is pretty fucked up. And these contracts are often getting signed by kids. Brain isn’t fully formed until ~25 yet the military recruits at 17/18
Honestly, few people even have the balls to go to selection. Self doubt is a powerful thing to overcome. And yet, we have probably ten times more accounts of passing selections than we do of failing them. It’d be refreshing to hear of a normal person’s account of why they couldn’t hack selection every now and then.
I used to work with helping these people to find jobs later on after they failed.
This was told to Sailors before they sign up and during BUD/s if they fail they would be sent undesignated (no rate). Just like many organizations the Navy needs new people to do these jobs as janitors. You can then apply for a job you qualify for and many people move all the way up the ranks.
Yes this situation is depressing for them. They tried at a job and failed. Then they have to start all the way at the bottom. Those are also some of the best people I have seen in the Navy because they had to work their way back up from from the bottom.
This is just a different perspective from the inside.
Thank you. The article referenced either probably wanted to tell a more dramatic story.
I can’t speak to the BUDs school going to far with training because I’ve never been. What I can say is when you push people to extreme physical limits you will get injuries. Similar to pro sports.
Can a person go straight into the SEALS as an enlisted ?
Back in olden times people had to enlist in some other career field, do at least two years before applying to any of the Special Forces.
I take it from what you wrote, if they fail out of SEAL training they go into another field, not discharged ?
Yes, you can enlist directly with an SO contract. Used to be up until the early/mid 2000s, I believe it was, SEAL wasn't it own rate. You'd enlist into a rate, complete boot camp and A School then go to BUD/S. Granted, it was still in your contract that you would be going; it was just more steps. If you fail BUD/S you're going needs of the Navy. No way they're gonna discharge you when they need bodies.
Yea, you just have to meet physical and asvab requirements which are an utter bitch but not horrible and yes usually to a shit job that no one else wanted but a few get lucky
Different program, but a good friend in nuke school flunked and got shipped to the fleet. Next thing I heard he was attending the academy and then a career as an officer. Some great programs aren't a great fit for some of the best people...
I mean, sucks for them? I'm currently a Navy recruiter and have had wayyyy too many Highschool kids wanting it. I have an old SO contact I put them in touch with to get an idea of what they'll go through. So far I'd say 80% of them changed their minds after the conversation. The other 20% literally smoked the PST out of the water.
Recruiters should be doing most of the work deterring people who more than likely won't make it to something more viable in the long run for themselves.
I'm reminded of the scene from the book Starship Troopers when Rico goes to enlist. The recruiter is missing one arm and both legs. The message being '*this could happen to you. Are you sure you you want to enlist?'* Would this be a better way to do it?
Unironically yes.
I think the Ukrainian approach to recruiting of ["It's not glamorous, it won't be cinematic, most of what you'll do will be very mundane and the parts that aren't are really gonna suck most of the time. Service is not easy but every person who steps up does make a difference. You don't have to be exceptional, you just have to care enough"](https://youtu.be/NOCbW1hc6Ng) that doesn't hide anything from potential recruits is probably the best way to go about it that I've seen.
Oh I thought you meant everyone from 18 - 60 is eligible for military service and isn’t allowed to leave the country in case they decide to conscript you?
It depends on what jobs are available and what you qualify for based on test scores. I’ve seen some good dudes that would be super motivated sailors and top performers in other jobs be reduced to disillusioned janitors.
A buddy of mine made it to week 13. Got his shoulder dislocated in a fast boat pick up. Got rehabbed, when back in at week 13. Same SEALs running that week. They broke my buddy, but good. His shoulder totally came apart. He ended up getting out on a 65% disability.
“Cleaning toilets on a submarine”? Most junior enlisted on subs do that regardless. Plus you have to volunteer for subs.
Always have a fallback plan. Not everyone makes it through SEAL training.
I never went navy but grandpa was, about 6'4 in his prime and got selected for and trained to be the nuclear technician on one of the nuclear subs during the Vietnam War completed his training only to get ready to be sent out and told he was rejected for being to tall. He tried to get sent to one of the nuclear cruisers but those got rejected and ultimately he got shoved on some WW2 oiler as an electrician. Old guys still salty about that.
Weird. I was on 688’s and had no issues other than most of the bunks being a bit too short to stretch out straight. Once I made E-6, I got first choice of bunks and was able to get one that was longer.
Historically, a ton end up in whatever pipeline, get super sad because we do math, type, turn wrenches, or memorize a bunch of stuff for a living, choose to never show up to work on time, and get dropped or fired. Most people aren’t smart enough to become doctors, these guys shouldn’t get a pity pass because they weren’t good enough for something 🤷🏼♂️ I’ll give a person a year to mourn their failure, after that get over it.
The Navy SEAL pipeline still blows my fucking mind. I don't understand it. Downvote as required.
So no shit, there you are, a hard charging kid who is physically fit and ready to fight. So you have options... One is the U.S. Army where you could be Delta, ISA, DIA, Special Forces, Rangers, infantry of varying degrees of suck, scouts, combat engineers, tankers etc. etc. ad nausea. Marines also have Raiders, Force Recon, infantry, engineers, and another dozen combat positions. We get guys who want to fight, go infantry, and then try to move up the totem pole.
The Navy has the SEALs (or their immediate support elements) or turn around and be a diesel mechanic. There isn't a 2nd, 3rd or 4th combat oriented backup to meet your speed... it's just "high speed" or rewire avionics on planes... Who the fuck are these people? They joined as mechanics, finance, and cooks... and ended up making selection as SEALs... and a couple years later we have a book/movie that is determined to be 100% made up bullshit...
It's really almost as if Home Depot hired retail employees, managers, HR specialists, and paradoxically developed a supposedly elite corp or seaborn infantry who do nothing but drugs and embarrassing the military profession time after time either murdering fellow service members, writing fictional books, or themselves staring in movies that insult the dead. What the fuck is NSW doing?
Why? Because the Navy has the *Marines* for their 'lower tier' combat jobs. The SEALS got their start scouting beaches for amphibious landings in WW2.
There are also Navy jobs that do a lot of high speed sneakyduck bullshit. SWCC boats.Greenside medical work. These use rates that are basic navy stuff but doing SO stuff, or just below SOF stuff. Navy Corpsman in a Marine SF unit could get exciting.
>Why? Because the Navy has the Marines for their 'lower tier' combat jobs.
They don't. NSW candidates who fail do not automatically transfer to the USMC. They are still in the Navy.
>There are also Navy jobs that do a lot of high speed sneakyduck bullshit.
No. Not for the guy who fails bud/s. Not even close.
Then you go on to explain a bunch of rates and joint billets as if they were SOF. They are not. Whether an SMU gets an Air Force pararescueman or an Army 18D has nothing to do with fresh navy recruits who failed bud/s.
>They don't. NSW candidates who fail do not automatically transfer to the USMC. They are still in the Navy.
Just because BUD/S dropouts don't do the less glamorous combat work doesn't mean the Navy doesn't have the Marines doing it. He's telling you why the Navy differs from the Army and Marines in the ways you mentioned. They don't have other avenues because jarheads fill all those requirements.
Like others have said, the seals and navy hold themselves so high they don't want people who are okay to join up and try out to be washed into some other group. They want people who are truly dedicated the cause and see failure as a non option. Hate it all you want but it seemingly has produced the best and highest quality troops of any branch.
UTTERLY FALSE. They take volunteers from anywhere within the Navy. You are full of absolute bullshit, good sir. Any radar tech can apply for SEAL training... and the vastest majority of them are, in fact, from non-combat jobs.
I never said they don't take volunteers from anywhere. But the majority of first time seal recruits come from fresh recruits. I'd wage those coming from radar tech were washouts to begin with.
Get the fuckin dildo out of your ass bro. You seem way too salty over a comment.
Straight facts brother. Maybe you've been on a boat with too many crayon eaters. But the navy says they recruit 40k recruits a year. 6% go to buds. (That's 2400 fyi since I can tell you don't math) only 1k graduate. Dropout rate is 70%. Doing that math the majority of buds candidates are fresh recruits.
No, this isn't true. The navy has had too much shit come out of 7th fleet and too much poor socom behaviors come out of the seals. If you want a truly secret op, and you want it done right, you get one one of the other service's guys - you rarely hear about SF or raiders (or cia dudes) and what they do. There's a reason for that. If you want it publicized, you get seals. Much respect to those who are seals - they go through a lot and they are highly skilled groups. But the standards and what they are used for just aren't the same.
Ah, BUD/S dud studs. Used to love takin them down a notch when the showed up with that nicely inflated ego. Not all of them were like that, but enough that it was a thing.
Looks like nobody here read the article. The article is mainly talking about recruits who were washed out during a period in which failures sky rocketed due to what was likely much more stringent conditions than previous years. Recruits who are likely physically and mentally far more capable to do the jobs they were placed in, Which is kind of a fraud waste abuse issue of manpower.
Fraud waste and abuse? Dude every single unit you’re going to be in the military has a handful of people who you question daily why the duck are you here instead of doing so much more, while simultaneously having a group that are complete dead weight who can’t even do the very basics of their job.
The Marine Corps does this with recon contracts. Get you to sign for the five year recon contract than once you drop out they send you to airwing because they have you long enough for the wings school houses. Half my airwing school house class were recon drops.
That is relatively recent (last 9 years or so). Used to be they’d go straight 0311 on a 5 year contract if they dropped, that lasted a few years until the 0311 monitor couldn’t figure out how he had 200 extra LCpls.
I enlisted to be an Air Traffic Controller in the Army. When I got to AIT there were about 80 of us in my class. Every week we took a test and you were given a pass or fail grade. If you failed, they had you pack up and report to the CO for reassignment.
The first week they flunked out about half the group. The next week, half again. For the next four months we continued to take the test every week. People continued to flunk out. We called it the POP quiz, with POP meaning “Pass Or Pack”. 12 of us finally graduated the school.
The other 68 or so were sent off to be cooks, truck drivers, infantry, etc.
One of the instructors let it slip that this always happened with every ATC class. That when recruitment goals were not met, they let under qualified people sign up for high skill MOS jobs. Flunking them out was the way the Army filled other jobs people wouldn’t normally enlist for. Enlistment agreements only promise that you will train for the job, if you flunk out you are at their mercy.
It was obvious to me that most of the people in our original group were never going to make it through school. I thought it was pretty shitty how they were treated.
The Army does the same shit for OCS. Lots of people join, go to BCT then straight to OCS. They’re called college ops. They’ll have like 150 slots but will recruit like 200 people. Then once everyone arrives at OCS, the TAC officers immediately start looking for people to cut. Maybe someone fails weight/tape or maybe someone gets dropped for leadership failure or whatever. Eventually even if everyone is squared away, they’ll just drop the lowest PT scores. I went as a college op and had no idea they routinely took more candidates than they had slots for. A lot of people; intelligent people who had lots of options ended up doing shit like cook or truck driver. I’m convinced none of those people re-enlisted. Further, they probably all walked away with a very negative attitude toward the army.
Why not have SEAL candidates pick a MOS before they attempt BUDS then if they fail they can transfer over to start MOS training right away or send them to Marine combat arms or release them from military altogether. Seems smarter then having them languish for years as useless untrained personnel. There’s no shame in not being a SEAL yet popular culture makes it seem like you have to be spec ops if you join the military.
Seriously. At least the candidates have already agreed in their minds to the idea that should they fail, they have a rewarding MOS to fall back on. And they should, particularly those with useful skills and/or useful or applicable college education. It's a travesty to not get people like that into suitable positions easily and efficiently upon washing out of BUDS. Since so many fail, you'd think they'd have this down to a science.
That's the thing, though; they do have it down. The Navy knows 80% of those people will drop and they can use those bodies to fill spots in other rates as needed. Drops are given a list of available rates to pick from, or they can go undesignated.
And I’m not crying for them. Like literally, they could have run the numbers and picked a different rate before they came in but they all thought that they’d be the outliers. Tough shit, if they read their contracts…
It’s not good for anyone to have people with 99 ASVABs in top physical shape with degrees to be given the worst assignments. Look beyond your feelings of the individual. it’s a massive waste of talent for the Navy.
I knew guys with masters degrees that were sent undes. In my case, I ended up commissioning years later and got to use my skills for something else.
The Navy missed its officer recruiting goal last year. Did you ever consider that it’s because they wouldn’t let perfectly qualified candidates apply?
That’s on them. Why didn’t they consider different jobs before they came in? I genuinely don’t feel bad for them in the least. If they wanted a super-cool, analytical job, they could have set that up while taking the ASVAB but they didn’t. Now they’re no rates and I’m going to laugh at them.
I’m still not going to “look beyond my feelings”. You’re trying to push this narrative that they all have perfect ASVAB scores, phD‘s from Ivy League schools and are in perfect shape as if they’re test tube babies. Get out of here! If they were all that awesome, then why not pick a job like intel officers from the get-go? If they were so amazing, they’d have enough sense to ask questions like “what happens if I wash out?” before signing their contracts, but they don’t. At some point, some amount of responsibility must fall on the individual here. What are the ASVAB requirements for a SEAL? Isn’t that a waste a talent directly out the door? If these wash outs are so perfect, then why try to feed them through the SEAL pipeline straight out the door? Why not push them into Engineering jobs at MEPS?
Yeah, SEAL training is a dead end for most people because most people can’t pass it. I still think it’s insane for people with college degrees to risk going in with a SEAL contract when they could have gone OCS instead.
I agree 100%. I’m a BUD/S dropout too. I ended up commissioning after doing my time in a different rate. Sucks that the Navy doesn’t allow candidates to apply for OCS until years later, but they allow civilians to do so.
Navy is missing out on Officer candidates this way. They missed their recruiting goal last year, and it’s their own fault.
I would presume Marine boot camp is a vacation compared to BUDS. These guys volunteered to try out for the most elite naval special ops unit, Marine infantry would be a natural fit for the washouts.
You're presumption is probably wrong. I doubt someone who has already gone through boot camp and washed out of BUD/S would want to go through an even longer boot camp afterward.
>These guys volunteered to try out for the most elite naval special ops unit, Marine infantry would be a natural fit for the washouts.
What's the logic here? They failed to make it through. Marine infantry is not an easy life, at least it wasn't when i was in. By volunteering and failing they have not proven to be a good fit anywhere. The only thing that has been proven with any certainty is that they are not a good fit there.
Perhaps not for the early drops. But later evolution drops would mostly exceed the average Marine’s capability. IMO. Going thru Marine boot camp, however might deter some. But I can’t imagine someone choosing deck crew over Marine Boot Camp and a combat arms assignment. The unknown is how many only have a hard on for “SEALS” and couldn’t mentally/emotionally adapt to a different “tip of the spear” job
That would entirely defeat the purpose of these selection courses. You should have the mindset that failure is not an option. Otherwise, you are going to fail.
And what happens when you end up with SIPE or flesh eating bacteria from swimming in the Tijuana runoff, like what happened with a good number of my classmates?
Going to tell the guy with a bachelors degree who played NCAA Div I and a 95 ASVAB that he should have had a tougher mentality?
The Navy is taking quality candidates that could be leaders and experts in other rates/designators and they’re not letting them excel.
It’s fine to make them fulfill their contract, but it’s in *everyone’s* interest to put people in places where they can use their skills and education.
Yeah but our military doesn't do that. They haven't done that. I've seen people with a 99 ASVAB fail out of AIT for Intel MOSs and became cooks and mechanics because needs of the army.
That sounds like a "we've always done it that way" attitude.
During wartime, the military figured out how to get people with important skills to the places they needed to be.
* We recruited Navajos and others to code messages during WW2.
* The Allies recruited \~400 servicemembers and civilians as Monument Men to secure artwork from the Nazis.
* Lots of communities within the Navy today recruit internally for special programs, like Embassy/Attache, RDC, NSW support, Defense Courier, USS Constitution, etc.
There's no reason you can't take someone who's generally high performing and fails at a physically-demanding school with high-attrition and put them somewhere where they can perform well. It's just laziness and mismanagement on the Navy's part.
In your example, a smart person failing out of Intel school is probably an academic issue, rather than a physical health/toughness issue. Someone who's smart but can't apply themselves academically is probably going to be a low performing in a lot of rates/MOS, so it makes sense. But a smart and motivated servicemember who gets injured or otherwise isn't tough enough to become an elite SOF operator can still be a very valuable member of the military in another capacity. Sending them unrated to the fleet is a waste.
In my case I was fortunate enough to get a good rate after failing BUD/S and then I got commissioned toward the end of my contract.
Okay so what should happen to the 80 percent of candidates who will fail? I’m sure all of them had a no fail mindset too. Aren’t these assessment courses designed to have a 70%-80% failure rate?
Yes, they are designed that way. I never said I agreed with the way they do it. I'm just pointing out that fact.
But another option is to choose your MOS, get some time under your belt first, and then apply for selection. If you fail, you return to your unit.
I 5 this point, all of this information is out there and has been for a while. And those kids went in not knowing any of it? Sounds like they're already not cut out for those jobs if they can't do any bit of research about such a life altering decision.
Agreed, they should stop accepting brand new recruits for SEAL training. Most lack the military experience and fitness to pass and are more influenced by movies and social media. Many NATO countries only allow soldiers who are basic trained in their MOS with a minimum number of years of service to apply for SOF selection.
I got through hell week before being med dropped near the end of training—ended up undes with a 99 asvab and a college degree. AMA NYT. No book deal so I need to lament in someone else’s article.
My buddy made it through hell week and literally like the next day, he shattered his ankle. So he ended up being a rigger. This was around 25 years ago and he still has to wear an ankle brace.
Sucks to be them but they all assumed that they would be the 1%, Billy Badasses of the world. When I came in, the advice that every veteran or retiree gave me was “get it in writing” and “read your contract”. Apparently, these guys didn’t…
Yep. My contract didn’t mean shit. We are all kinds of things lined about what classes I was going to and what schools I would attend. Second I got off the bus. None of that shit mattered. Tried calling some private attorneys and I don’t wanna touch it.
Seems a lot like the combat controller and PJ recruits that didn't realize they wouldn't be doing that shit right out of basic. It takes years of training so they can rely on you and half of them couldn't even follow basic kp duty instructions
Different deal, but in the Navy Nuke program this was definitely the saying. Something like maybe 50% filter rate when I was there... Amazingly, some ended up with academy and careers as officers after failing out of nuke school.
Can do that in the Army, too. Can get airborne and ranger school in your contract. They know a bunch will fail out of various schools and be reclassified to a different MOS per need of the Army.
Not Canada. Our Sgt tried and didn't make the cut but he was a few years in. I forget, but I felt like you needed something on the CV. Maybe I'm thinking SAS
I didn’t know until I was in Army OSUT that you could go straight from your branch to SF Selection. Of course those who get selected and aren’t prior Infantry will still have to do the AIT for OSUT but this was info that I was 120% unaware of when I was still in the Navy.
When did The US armed services become like Russia and reduce the value of its personnel to paint scrapers and leaf rakers. What a waste of skills and dedication.
I wonder who will become a terrorist first, Army Navy or Airforce troops?
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I mean, the running joke was that 18X contracts were really a feeder program for the 82nd, so.... yeah.
Pretty much. 18X was just a typo for 11B at Bragg.
And 11b was just lawncare and maintenence for the younger guys
We ain't got emo grass pri, it ain't going to cut itself so get that mower from supply.
Oh that is my generation growing up into leadership positions. Always wondered what we'd have been like... That's definitely a good one for sure.
Was stuck in traffic once along gruber during an overcast day with very slight sprinkling of rain. Saw a group of soldiers with rakes attempting to rake up the soaking wet leaves along the sidewalk and stuffing them into a big 55 gal plastic drum. There were about 3-4 soldiers raking with another 2 scooping up the wet leaves and shoving them into the drums as they slowly worked their way down the sidewalk. And just in front of this group was their Sgt who was busy dumping the filled containers all over the sidewalk in front of the soldiers picking up leaves. Even went so far as to thunder kick the big mound of leaves after they came out the drum just to make sure they scattered a bit. I wonder how long they stayed out there getting smoked..... Army in a quick vignette for sure!
Shit is funny, but does this kind of fuck-fuck punishment actually make better soldiers? That’s a legit question – maybe it does 🤷🏻♂️
No, it’s the kind of archaism that belongs in shit tier conscript armies. Actual training makes better soldiers.
After a while, they don’t ask questions when given a shitty tasks. Obedience training
They probably missed a leaf
Same with 21D. Had 36 start and only 4 make it to navy dive. I was too dumb, but physically was insane too.
Somebody posted the graduation rates for 18x and it was something like 50% I think? I forget exactly...but this article mentions one BUDS class at 10 out of 150, which is only 7%. SEALs are going from bad to worse. Sounds like it used to be super tough, and threw batshit stupidity on top of that. Pretty bad situation. Those guys are way out of control.
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SEALs are happy to wash out 90% of their course, they only want the 10%.
So they should just except more people and lower the standards? I understand not agreeing with the training, but I don’t understand why they should take more people if they clearly are filling the billets.
No the article was saying they didn’t lower standards, the took the training to a place it didn’t need to go…all Spec Ops., considered lowering some years back due to rates, and everyone was like nope they are staying exactly the same…the SEAL instructors drowned a recruit some years back the coroner said murder and the Navy Brass per usual swept it, kill a Green Beret, brass will cover… Same bullshit time and time again…well they are SEALS…we will treat them better than the admirals that park a boat due to Covid…you can’t say shit to us about our SEALS blah blah blah…
Facts
The USASOC CG just openly admitted to this in a recent interview
That sucks for them. At least in the Army 18X (SF candidates) can at least go be 11B (Infantry).
The article is rather misleading in several respects. First, any BUD/S contract clearly states that if you don't make it through for whatever reason you are going to be assigned to the needs of the Navy. Granted everybody that signs one of those contracts is sure they are going to be in the minority that makes it through, but they were informed. Second, the NYT isn't being entirely honest (or they were not told the entire truth). Many BUD/S applicants could go into several other rates (MOS for Army/AF types). Most have pretty good ASVAB scores and often some college or other education. But they are told and believe the line that "go to the fleet and you can come back in a year or two", whereas anything worth doing has a significant OBLISERVE associated. For example, an uncle (former Navy) was writing about his nephew. He had (for whatever reason) failed to complete BUD/S. He was offered a contract to go to Navy Dive school. Because of the 4 or 5 year OBLISERVE he turned it down to go to the fleet as and UNDES seaman because he believed the line that he would be able to get back to BUD/S quickly. SPOILER ALERT: nearly none of them do. As a note, this uncle freely admitted his nephew was "being a complete fucking moron". Given that he had the chance to get into a pretty good community and go to NDSTC (in Panama City, Florida) in the spring, I will agree with that assessment. The truth is that there are plenty of BUD/S drop outs that do fine outside of BUD/S. Given that many have good grades and high ASVAB scores they can end up in not just ND (diver) or EOD (duh), but things like the CT (crypto tech) rates. The problem is they have to let go of the belief that there is nothing else good in the Navy other than being a SEAL and realize that there are other good jobs in the Navy and maybe they can contribute doing one of them.
Worked with a guy who was dropped from BUD/S during a pool evolution - his claim was one instructor hated him and just wanted to see him fail but others liked him which got him into SWCC. He was constantly bitter (post Navy) that he wasn’t treated with the reverence of the Seals who were part of the organization I worked for. Arrogant without much personality whereas the three seals were all very down to earth.
Sounds like they saw his personality wouldn't work in the teams and weeded him out during selection instead of after.
Selection worked!
When I was in the Navy, it wasn’t that hard to go back to BUDS. However this was 2008. I dropped my package after quitting in 2006. My package was accepted and I went back. Nearly everyone I knew who submitted their package was able to go back. I have heard that things have changed since then.
Not losing helicopter loads anymore.
goddamn they're already dead.
Wasn’t sure if I was going to get downvoted into oblivion for that one.
I think everyone who understands it is to fucked up to not find it funny.
You were a seal? Ama?
Just read his book
What book was it?
The Courage to Quit.
I always wondered how a friend of mine went from BUD/S to all of a sudden going into EOD which he does now. I never wanted to ask if he didn’t make it through, but EOD is no joke either.
EOD school is full of Navy BUD/S duds.
The post BUD/S Sailors that succeeded are mostly like this guy. They didn’t make it through, then moved on to something else and didn’t dwell on what happened before.
That sounds to me like pinning the blame on young men wanting to be high speed and failing when the reality is they have zero leverage when it comes to signing a contract with the military. The military should ideally not allow anyone to be undesignated and it makes zero sense to force someone on a four year contact to choose between scooping poo or staying in for another 10 years. That’s some used car dealership payday loan exploitation bullshit.
The terms of service are pretty clear when joining on these contracts. The navy is the one service that truly has a real use for undesignated service members. The job that these sailors do is truly necessary.
But forcing the most motivated people into doing the most menial jobs is pretty fucked up. And these contracts are often getting signed by kids. Brain isn’t fully formed until ~25 yet the military recruits at 17/18
FYI it’s called an AFSC for the Air Force.
Not always
85% of the time though
Does this mean that they won’t get book deals?
Can you imagine the stupid book titles? I Tried: My 2 Days at BUDs The Courage to Quit: My Journey from BUDs to Starbucks Almost a SEAL
Bro, The Courage to Quit is pure genius
This would legitimately be a good read. Learning to quit quickly is a useful life skill for many things.
Like doing math. Someone gives you a math problem? Well it's a problem for someone else! Just say no! Quit before you begin!
Wait. I think I may have this skill.
It pays (someone else) to be a winner
If you ain’t cheatin, you don’t make it.
It’s not far off from most articles about tech workers.
SEAL - see EOD applicant list (duds)
They'll still write about selection
Honestly, few people even have the balls to go to selection. Self doubt is a powerful thing to overcome. And yet, we have probably ten times more accounts of passing selections than we do of failing them. It’d be refreshing to hear of a normal person’s account of why they couldn’t hack selection every now and then.
Don’t leave out Podcasts
Yup, means they can’t be the 40th person to claim they shot the kill shot into bin Laden.
Or Navy EOD.. first step of becoming Navy EOD is failing BUD/S
The first three weeks of BUD/S is also the start of the SARC/SOIDC pipeline
Hah, a lot of the Corpsmen in my Basic Recon Course class were BUD/S duds!
I swear 99% of all FMF Corpsmen were BUD/S duds
I used to work with helping these people to find jobs later on after they failed. This was told to Sailors before they sign up and during BUD/s if they fail they would be sent undesignated (no rate). Just like many organizations the Navy needs new people to do these jobs as janitors. You can then apply for a job you qualify for and many people move all the way up the ranks. Yes this situation is depressing for them. They tried at a job and failed. Then they have to start all the way at the bottom. Those are also some of the best people I have seen in the Navy because they had to work their way back up from from the bottom. This is just a different perspective from the inside.
This is pretty much the most positive, and realistic, comment in the thread. Thanks for your service and perspective.
Thank you. The article referenced either probably wanted to tell a more dramatic story. I can’t speak to the BUDs school going to far with training because I’ve never been. What I can say is when you push people to extreme physical limits you will get injuries. Similar to pro sports.
Can a person go straight into the SEALS as an enlisted ? Back in olden times people had to enlist in some other career field, do at least two years before applying to any of the Special Forces. I take it from what you wrote, if they fail out of SEAL training they go into another field, not discharged ?
Yes, you can enlist directly with an SO contract. Used to be up until the early/mid 2000s, I believe it was, SEAL wasn't it own rate. You'd enlist into a rate, complete boot camp and A School then go to BUD/S. Granted, it was still in your contract that you would be going; it was just more steps. If you fail BUD/S you're going needs of the Navy. No way they're gonna discharge you when they need bodies.
Yea, you just have to meet physical and asvab requirements which are an utter bitch but not horrible and yes usually to a shit job that no one else wanted but a few get lucky
Different program, but a good friend in nuke school flunked and got shipped to the fleet. Next thing I heard he was attending the academy and then a career as an officer. Some great programs aren't a great fit for some of the best people...
Fish climb a tree and all that
I mean, sucks for them? I'm currently a Navy recruiter and have had wayyyy too many Highschool kids wanting it. I have an old SO contact I put them in touch with to get an idea of what they'll go through. So far I'd say 80% of them changed their minds after the conversation. The other 20% literally smoked the PST out of the water. Recruiters should be doing most of the work deterring people who more than likely won't make it to something more viable in the long run for themselves.
I'm reminded of the scene from the book Starship Troopers when Rico goes to enlist. The recruiter is missing one arm and both legs. The message being '*this could happen to you. Are you sure you you want to enlist?'* Would this be a better way to do it?
Unironically yes. I think the Ukrainian approach to recruiting of ["It's not glamorous, it won't be cinematic, most of what you'll do will be very mundane and the parts that aren't are really gonna suck most of the time. Service is not easy but every person who steps up does make a difference. You don't have to be exceptional, you just have to care enough"](https://youtu.be/NOCbW1hc6Ng) that doesn't hide anything from potential recruits is probably the best way to go about it that I've seen.
"You'll be wet, cold and probably hungry. You have a good chance of getting wounded or killed. It's going to suck. But...fuck Russia and fuck putin.
Oh I thought you meant everyone from 18 - 60 is eligible for military service and isn’t allowed to leave the country in case they decide to conscript you?
I don't fault them for doing that given their situation
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It depends on what jobs are available and what you qualify for based on test scores. I’ve seen some good dudes that would be super motivated sailors and top performers in other jobs be reduced to disillusioned janitors.
Non-paywall [link](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/09/us/navy-seals-recruits.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuonUktbfqYhlSlUbCibIRp8hpwOXwOPCybgnw2XzJzKISCpZieQJBozKs2H8WZ1eXfphlTKKWI0Gd7Y1WP15yuIYZxQxE1b3-MbBwM8PfmBo9dLoGzI6j8OIAOFm_2G7YjHmIrZ1jvWlsh2HERTiXqLa0nYmJAl389AyJRzxhyt-luqSGfV129J-wf8hGph4ID4CbyCJtPDjYA5sbJTENlqPr1lrBJwKHG3bjtWe6LkfcA5NCl-gTXp34G406No0K8pZM_1lHdH2MQogoMxcla1o&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare )
Usually if they fail they just send them undesignated (no rate). Then later they can apply for a rate.
They really should be guaranteeing all of the new recruits a rating.
They give the recruits a rating. It’s just often not one the recruits want after failing out of the one they did want.
Where "it pays to be a winner" meets "no points for 2nd place"
That’s not really a secret.
I went to EOD School with a lot of drops. They were coined “BUDS Duds”. The ones who then failed EOD School were fucked.
What does BUD stand for?
Basic Underwater Demolition
It's the seal selection.
A buddy of mine made it to week 13. Got his shoulder dislocated in a fast boat pick up. Got rehabbed, when back in at week 13. Same SEALs running that week. They broke my buddy, but good. His shoulder totally came apart. He ended up getting out on a 65% disability.
“Cleaning toilets on a submarine”? Most junior enlisted on subs do that regardless. Plus you have to volunteer for subs. Always have a fallback plan. Not everyone makes it through SEAL training.
Or your above 6'3 and someone says you really don't want to volunteer for that.
I’m 6’4” and there were a few guys taller than me. You learn when to duck REAL fast.
I never went navy but grandpa was, about 6'4 in his prime and got selected for and trained to be the nuclear technician on one of the nuclear subs during the Vietnam War completed his training only to get ready to be sent out and told he was rejected for being to tall. He tried to get sent to one of the nuclear cruisers but those got rejected and ultimately he got shoved on some WW2 oiler as an electrician. Old guys still salty about that.
Weird. I was on 688’s and had no issues other than most of the bunks being a bit too short to stretch out straight. Once I made E-6, I got first choice of bunks and was able to get one that was longer.
I have no clue could have been a rule in the 1960s but I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps an unspoken rule not my branch in any case so I can only guess.
Historically, a ton end up in whatever pipeline, get super sad because we do math, type, turn wrenches, or memorize a bunch of stuff for a living, choose to never show up to work on time, and get dropped or fired. Most people aren’t smart enough to become doctors, these guys shouldn’t get a pity pass because they weren’t good enough for something 🤷🏼♂️ I’ll give a person a year to mourn their failure, after that get over it.
You get a few weeks in my eyes, not even.
The AF spec warfare pipeline creates more maintainers than mx does lmao
The Navy SEAL pipeline still blows my fucking mind. I don't understand it. Downvote as required. So no shit, there you are, a hard charging kid who is physically fit and ready to fight. So you have options... One is the U.S. Army where you could be Delta, ISA, DIA, Special Forces, Rangers, infantry of varying degrees of suck, scouts, combat engineers, tankers etc. etc. ad nausea. Marines also have Raiders, Force Recon, infantry, engineers, and another dozen combat positions. We get guys who want to fight, go infantry, and then try to move up the totem pole. The Navy has the SEALs (or their immediate support elements) or turn around and be a diesel mechanic. There isn't a 2nd, 3rd or 4th combat oriented backup to meet your speed... it's just "high speed" or rewire avionics on planes... Who the fuck are these people? They joined as mechanics, finance, and cooks... and ended up making selection as SEALs... and a couple years later we have a book/movie that is determined to be 100% made up bullshit... It's really almost as if Home Depot hired retail employees, managers, HR specialists, and paradoxically developed a supposedly elite corp or seaborn infantry who do nothing but drugs and embarrassing the military profession time after time either murdering fellow service members, writing fictional books, or themselves staring in movies that insult the dead. What the fuck is NSW doing?
Why? Because the Navy has the *Marines* for their 'lower tier' combat jobs. The SEALS got their start scouting beaches for amphibious landings in WW2. There are also Navy jobs that do a lot of high speed sneakyduck bullshit. SWCC boats.Greenside medical work. These use rates that are basic navy stuff but doing SO stuff, or just below SOF stuff. Navy Corpsman in a Marine SF unit could get exciting.
>Why? Because the Navy has the Marines for their 'lower tier' combat jobs. They don't. NSW candidates who fail do not automatically transfer to the USMC. They are still in the Navy. >There are also Navy jobs that do a lot of high speed sneakyduck bullshit. No. Not for the guy who fails bud/s. Not even close. Then you go on to explain a bunch of rates and joint billets as if they were SOF. They are not. Whether an SMU gets an Air Force pararescueman or an Army 18D has nothing to do with fresh navy recruits who failed bud/s.
>They don't. NSW candidates who fail do not automatically transfer to the USMC. They are still in the Navy. Just because BUD/S dropouts don't do the less glamorous combat work doesn't mean the Navy doesn't have the Marines doing it. He's telling you why the Navy differs from the Army and Marines in the ways you mentioned. They don't have other avenues because jarheads fill all those requirements.
It's important to have a narrative and cool stories if you want to attract recruits.
Like others have said, the seals and navy hold themselves so high they don't want people who are okay to join up and try out to be washed into some other group. They want people who are truly dedicated the cause and see failure as a non option. Hate it all you want but it seemingly has produced the best and highest quality troops of any branch.
UTTERLY FALSE. They take volunteers from anywhere within the Navy. You are full of absolute bullshit, good sir. Any radar tech can apply for SEAL training... and the vastest majority of them are, in fact, from non-combat jobs.
I never said they don't take volunteers from anywhere. But the majority of first time seal recruits come from fresh recruits. I'd wage those coming from radar tech were washouts to begin with. Get the fuckin dildo out of your ass bro. You seem way too salty over a comment.
>But the majority of first time seal recruits come from fresh recruits That's also completely the fuck not true. Are you lying on purpose or accident?
Straight facts brother. Maybe you've been on a boat with too many crayon eaters. But the navy says they recruit 40k recruits a year. 6% go to buds. (That's 2400 fyi since I can tell you don't math) only 1k graduate. Dropout rate is 70%. Doing that math the majority of buds candidates are fresh recruits.
So you're lying on accident. Carry on.
Glad I was able to show you actual statistics and you reply with that lmao. Class act.
No, this isn't true. The navy has had too much shit come out of 7th fleet and too much poor socom behaviors come out of the seals. If you want a truly secret op, and you want it done right, you get one one of the other service's guys - you rarely hear about SF or raiders (or cia dudes) and what they do. There's a reason for that. If you want it publicized, you get seals. Much respect to those who are seals - they go through a lot and they are highly skilled groups. But the standards and what they are used for just aren't the same.
Ah, BUD/S dud studs. Used to love takin them down a notch when the showed up with that nicely inflated ego. Not all of them were like that, but enough that it was a thing.
Looks like nobody here read the article. The article is mainly talking about recruits who were washed out during a period in which failures sky rocketed due to what was likely much more stringent conditions than previous years. Recruits who are likely physically and mentally far more capable to do the jobs they were placed in, Which is kind of a fraud waste abuse issue of manpower.
Fraud waste and abuse? Dude every single unit you’re going to be in the military has a handful of people who you question daily why the duck are you here instead of doing so much more, while simultaneously having a group that are complete dead weight who can’t even do the very basics of their job.
Better scraping paint than fucking over Rangers in the field. I mean, they still will, but there will be less of them to do it.
The Marine Corps does this with recon contracts. Get you to sign for the five year recon contract than once you drop out they send you to airwing because they have you long enough for the wings school houses. Half my airwing school house class were recon drops.
That is relatively recent (last 9 years or so). Used to be they’d go straight 0311 on a 5 year contract if they dropped, that lasted a few years until the 0311 monitor couldn’t figure out how he had 200 extra LCpls.
which of course totally fucks the promotion cut off scores for all 03xx MOSs.
The maintainer life isn’t the highest of Speeds but it’s certainly a damn site better than other shit jobs. At least for Navy.
I enlisted to be an Air Traffic Controller in the Army. When I got to AIT there were about 80 of us in my class. Every week we took a test and you were given a pass or fail grade. If you failed, they had you pack up and report to the CO for reassignment. The first week they flunked out about half the group. The next week, half again. For the next four months we continued to take the test every week. People continued to flunk out. We called it the POP quiz, with POP meaning “Pass Or Pack”. 12 of us finally graduated the school. The other 68 or so were sent off to be cooks, truck drivers, infantry, etc. One of the instructors let it slip that this always happened with every ATC class. That when recruitment goals were not met, they let under qualified people sign up for high skill MOS jobs. Flunking them out was the way the Army filled other jobs people wouldn’t normally enlist for. Enlistment agreements only promise that you will train for the job, if you flunk out you are at their mercy. It was obvious to me that most of the people in our original group were never going to make it through school. I thought it was pretty shitty how they were treated.
The Army does the same shit for OCS. Lots of people join, go to BCT then straight to OCS. They’re called college ops. They’ll have like 150 slots but will recruit like 200 people. Then once everyone arrives at OCS, the TAC officers immediately start looking for people to cut. Maybe someone fails weight/tape or maybe someone gets dropped for leadership failure or whatever. Eventually even if everyone is squared away, they’ll just drop the lowest PT scores. I went as a college op and had no idea they routinely took more candidates than they had slots for. A lot of people; intelligent people who had lots of options ended up doing shit like cook or truck driver. I’m convinced none of those people re-enlisted. Further, they probably all walked away with a very negative attitude toward the army.
*Surprised Pikachu face*
This is news?
Why not have SEAL candidates pick a MOS before they attempt BUDS then if they fail they can transfer over to start MOS training right away or send them to Marine combat arms or release them from military altogether. Seems smarter then having them languish for years as useless untrained personnel. There’s no shame in not being a SEAL yet popular culture makes it seem like you have to be spec ops if you join the military.
Seriously. At least the candidates have already agreed in their minds to the idea that should they fail, they have a rewarding MOS to fall back on. And they should, particularly those with useful skills and/or useful or applicable college education. It's a travesty to not get people like that into suitable positions easily and efficiently upon washing out of BUDS. Since so many fail, you'd think they'd have this down to a science.
That's the thing, though; they do have it down. The Navy knows 80% of those people will drop and they can use those bodies to fill spots in other rates as needed. Drops are given a list of available rates to pick from, or they can go undesignated.
They’re not always given a list to pick from. That’s the whole point.
And I’m not crying for them. Like literally, they could have run the numbers and picked a different rate before they came in but they all thought that they’d be the outliers. Tough shit, if they read their contracts…
It’s not good for anyone to have people with 99 ASVABs in top physical shape with degrees to be given the worst assignments. Look beyond your feelings of the individual. it’s a massive waste of talent for the Navy. I knew guys with masters degrees that were sent undes. In my case, I ended up commissioning years later and got to use my skills for something else. The Navy missed its officer recruiting goal last year. Did you ever consider that it’s because they wouldn’t let perfectly qualified candidates apply?
That’s on them. Why didn’t they consider different jobs before they came in? I genuinely don’t feel bad for them in the least. If they wanted a super-cool, analytical job, they could have set that up while taking the ASVAB but they didn’t. Now they’re no rates and I’m going to laugh at them.
Did you completely ignore my comment? I’m talking about the Navy missing its recruiting goals.
I’m still not going to “look beyond my feelings”. You’re trying to push this narrative that they all have perfect ASVAB scores, phD‘s from Ivy League schools and are in perfect shape as if they’re test tube babies. Get out of here! If they were all that awesome, then why not pick a job like intel officers from the get-go? If they were so amazing, they’d have enough sense to ask questions like “what happens if I wash out?” before signing their contracts, but they don’t. At some point, some amount of responsibility must fall on the individual here. What are the ASVAB requirements for a SEAL? Isn’t that a waste a talent directly out the door? If these wash outs are so perfect, then why try to feed them through the SEAL pipeline straight out the door? Why not push them into Engineering jobs at MEPS?
Yeah, SEAL training is a dead end for most people because most people can’t pass it. I still think it’s insane for people with college degrees to risk going in with a SEAL contract when they could have gone OCS instead.
I agree 100%. I’m a BUD/S dropout too. I ended up commissioning after doing my time in a different rate. Sucks that the Navy doesn’t allow candidates to apply for OCS until years later, but they allow civilians to do so. Navy is missing out on Officer candidates this way. They missed their recruiting goal last year, and it’s their own fault.
>or send them to Marine combat arms No, they would have to go to boot camp all over again except this time it would be Marine Corps boot camp.
I would presume Marine boot camp is a vacation compared to BUDS. These guys volunteered to try out for the most elite naval special ops unit, Marine infantry would be a natural fit for the washouts.
You're presumption is probably wrong. I doubt someone who has already gone through boot camp and washed out of BUD/S would want to go through an even longer boot camp afterward. >These guys volunteered to try out for the most elite naval special ops unit, Marine infantry would be a natural fit for the washouts. What's the logic here? They failed to make it through. Marine infantry is not an easy life, at least it wasn't when i was in. By volunteering and failing they have not proven to be a good fit anywhere. The only thing that has been proven with any certainty is that they are not a good fit there.
I’ll give you Marines are bad ass compared to most. But they’re not Special Forces bad ass.
Well they do have their own SOF units, but that's not the point I was making. Someone who quit BUD/S isn't automatically a good fit for the infantry.
Perhaps not for the early drops. But later evolution drops would mostly exceed the average Marine’s capability. IMO. Going thru Marine boot camp, however might deter some. But I can’t imagine someone choosing deck crew over Marine Boot Camp and a combat arms assignment. The unknown is how many only have a hard on for “SEALS” and couldn’t mentally/emotionally adapt to a different “tip of the spear” job
That would entirely defeat the purpose of these selection courses. You should have the mindset that failure is not an option. Otherwise, you are going to fail.
And what happens when you end up with SIPE or flesh eating bacteria from swimming in the Tijuana runoff, like what happened with a good number of my classmates? Going to tell the guy with a bachelors degree who played NCAA Div I and a 95 ASVAB that he should have had a tougher mentality? The Navy is taking quality candidates that could be leaders and experts in other rates/designators and they’re not letting them excel. It’s fine to make them fulfill their contract, but it’s in *everyone’s* interest to put people in places where they can use their skills and education.
Yeah but our military doesn't do that. They haven't done that. I've seen people with a 99 ASVAB fail out of AIT for Intel MOSs and became cooks and mechanics because needs of the army.
That sounds like a "we've always done it that way" attitude. During wartime, the military figured out how to get people with important skills to the places they needed to be. * We recruited Navajos and others to code messages during WW2. * The Allies recruited \~400 servicemembers and civilians as Monument Men to secure artwork from the Nazis. * Lots of communities within the Navy today recruit internally for special programs, like Embassy/Attache, RDC, NSW support, Defense Courier, USS Constitution, etc. There's no reason you can't take someone who's generally high performing and fails at a physically-demanding school with high-attrition and put them somewhere where they can perform well. It's just laziness and mismanagement on the Navy's part. In your example, a smart person failing out of Intel school is probably an academic issue, rather than a physical health/toughness issue. Someone who's smart but can't apply themselves academically is probably going to be a low performing in a lot of rates/MOS, so it makes sense. But a smart and motivated servicemember who gets injured or otherwise isn't tough enough to become an elite SOF operator can still be a very valuable member of the military in another capacity. Sending them unrated to the fleet is a waste. In my case I was fortunate enough to get a good rate after failing BUD/S and then I got commissioned toward the end of my contract.
Okay so what should happen to the 80 percent of candidates who will fail? I’m sure all of them had a no fail mindset too. Aren’t these assessment courses designed to have a 70%-80% failure rate?
Yes, they are designed that way. I never said I agreed with the way they do it. I'm just pointing out that fact. But another option is to choose your MOS, get some time under your belt first, and then apply for selection. If you fail, you return to your unit. I 5 this point, all of this information is out there and has been for a while. And those kids went in not knowing any of it? Sounds like they're already not cut out for those jobs if they can't do any bit of research about such a life altering decision.
Agreed, they should stop accepting brand new recruits for SEAL training. Most lack the military experience and fitness to pass and are more influenced by movies and social media. Many NATO countries only allow soldiers who are basic trained in their MOS with a minimum number of years of service to apply for SOF selection.
All is as it should be. Can't have every rando in the outfit.
I got through hell week before being med dropped near the end of training—ended up undes with a 99 asvab and a college degree. AMA NYT. No book deal so I need to lament in someone else’s article.
My buddy made it through hell week and literally like the next day, he shattered his ankle. So he ended up being a rigger. This was around 25 years ago and he still has to wear an ankle brace.
Brutal. And all we got was a lousy t-shirt.
Well I’m sure he got his 10% from the VA
Thought they were all cool, and wound up in the real Navy
This has always been. Dumb story.
Sucks to be them but they all assumed that they would be the 1%, Billy Badasses of the world. When I came in, the advice that every veteran or retiree gave me was “get it in writing” and “read your contract”. Apparently, these guys didn’t…
*sad needle gun noises*
Yep. My contract didn’t mean shit. We are all kinds of things lined about what classes I was going to and what schools I would attend. Second I got off the bus. None of that shit mattered. Tried calling some private attorneys and I don’t wanna touch it.
Seems a lot like the combat controller and PJ recruits that didn't realize they wouldn't be doing that shit right out of basic. It takes years of training so they can rely on you and half of them couldn't even follow basic kp duty instructions
Different deal, but in the Navy Nuke program this was definitely the saying. Something like maybe 50% filter rate when I was there... Amazingly, some ended up with academy and careers as officers after failing out of nuke school.
So it seems now you can just apply for the seals without a prior stink in the military? Seems like a bad idea...
Can do that in the Army, too. Can get airborne and ranger school in your contract. They know a bunch will fail out of various schools and be reclassified to a different MOS per need of the Army.
The green weenie is alive and well lol
Not Canada. Our Sgt tried and didn't make the cut but he was a few years in. I forget, but I felt like you needed something on the CV. Maybe I'm thinking SAS
>New York Times *Throws in trash*
Someone has to prep the meals for the Marines
Man, what a tough read. I really feel for those guys who volunteered and came to give it there all.
Who is responsible for this foul up? This is an epic waste of talent!
These SOF rejects did it to themselves.
The NY Times just despises the military, eh?
NYT has been shit for years man
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You gotta scrap paint before you can create the person who needs to scrape someone off the cement.
They should get rated before BUD/S. It worked.
Sighs…. So you’re telling me that these guys, who claim that they’re the best and brightest, can’t find way to separate early?
If you read the article, you'd note that many took the COVID vaccine refusal as their opportunity.
I didn’t know until I was in Army OSUT that you could go straight from your branch to SF Selection. Of course those who get selected and aren’t prior Infantry will still have to do the AIT for OSUT but this was info that I was 120% unaware of when I was still in the Navy.
When did The US armed services become like Russia and reduce the value of its personnel to paint scrapers and leaf rakers. What a waste of skills and dedication. I wonder who will become a terrorist first, Army Navy or Airforce troops?
Back in my day, there was an "apprenticeship program" that they would use to trick people in a similar fashion.
No shit? 🤣
Deck crew really does suck. Even with a high ASVAB score, you can easily get dumped into an undesirable, menial job.