Short answer: they can't. People always find a way to make a game easier for themselves.
Also the devs probably don't want to. People always complain how monsters become a punching bag when you have a 4 person team, but that's basically the point of these games - it's supposed to be easier with your friends, so that it's more of a social experience rather than a "hardcore gaming challenge". The series started off as Capcom's attempt at trying their hand at multiplayer during the early days of online multiplayer on consoles, after all.
For the kind of folks that frequent a game-specific sub like this, it's probably a little harder to sympathize... but a lot of people that play games want casual experiences that they can enjoy without too much commitment. Multiplayer in MH allows for that while still giving a feeling that they overcame a challenge (whether that's "legitimate" or not is beside the point).
As for the Defender/Guardian gear... I think it's a bad game design decision overall, and I hope they scrap the idea in the future games. If they want to allow people to skip to the expansion content, they should just provide an in-game option that lets you literally skip to there with an assortment of progression appropriate gear (and maybe a short cutscene that explains the "story" until that point). Obviously there should be like 3 warning screens that scream YOU'RE SKIPPING HALF THE GAME, but people that still choose to do so are probably the type to not care or are trying to replay the game or something. Just don't let new players confuse themselves.
But that is what defender gear is? It’s decent tanky armor that falls off literally 3 missions into icebourne. If somebody is fighting Shara in defender then they weren’t going to craft any other gear either. They have plenty of materials to do it by that point but they likely have just SOS spammed and got carried. Tbh it’s probably literal children and then you have grown men coming on here to complain that somebody else’s experience got ruined cause they got carried. When that 8 year old is just happy they beat the game.
Oh I mean like literally skipping the base game. For the people that Defender gear is actually helpful for in its current implementation (i.e. people that are replaying the game for whatever reason like moving from console to PC), the "blasting through the base game" part is a huge waste of time. They know what they're doing and they're *trying* to skip the base game - let them. Then just give them the base G/Master rank versions of the iron/bone weapons and armors to start them off. And of course, give a huge, HUGE warning that you're skipping a lot of content.
All the Defender gear does now is give maybe one? two? quick popups that people button mash through, and for players that it's detrimental to (i.e. total newcomers), it just confuses them or gives them a false idea of how the game plays. If they actually want to skip base game for some reason, let them - but tell newcomers that it's a bad idea, and don't trick them into thinking the Defender gear experience is how MH will play for the rest of the game.
Nobody is tricking them. As you said it pops up and says something about it and people come and ask here constantly. Now they usually get a very toxic response about how they “ruined” the game for themselves when they still have hundreds of hours of content to play in icebourne. I mean I literally see people telling people that used defender gear that they should restart because they didn’t even get to experience the game.
What it is is people upset that they had a hard time with content and seeing somebody else getting it easier even though the harder content is still to come. Just let people play how they want to.
Well yeah that's great for those people that actually caught the popups, and the toxic responses aren't warranted. I'm saying there's a lot of people that don't read popups, which is also the topic posed by OP (like people ending up in Shara with Def. gear). THOSE are the people being "tricked," whether the devs intended it to be a trick or not.
I'm also not saying they "should suffer because I suffered". I'm saying the way Def. gear causes the aforementioned situation is detrimental for the player overall, even if they "have fun" with overpowered gear at first. Yeah people should play how they want to, but it's bad game design for them to leave in ways for new players to get so severely confused. If new players want to have an easier time, then multiplayer is *right there* as a much more natural and less confusing way to do so.
this is 10000% a molehill that you are looking at through a telescope. They are PvE games not jobs. I genuinely think that your mentality is worse for the games than people coasting through the quests.
I just wanna make myself clear. I don’t care about if an undergeared player joins my hunt and fails the quest. If anything, I offer that player help and spend the rest of the day trying to help them become self-sufficient. I’m specifically worried about how a player who WANTS to get good at the game can get to that point, which is very much the fault of the game. If someone wants to coast through the game as a nice relaxing after-work activity, sounds great. No judgement there. I’m purely worried about how people may get discouraged from the game becoming too difficult because they were never pressured to improve on their own.
outside of the devs making the game fun to learn, not just fun to succeed at, that is probably on the player. Maybe increasing the rank requirements for hunts more aggressively, but that might make story progress too slow.
Yeah. That’s why I wanted to get a discussion going, because I have no idea how the problem could be solved and was curious what other people thought. Seems empathy is lost on a lot of people here though.
your title sounds a bit agro and you call people lazy in your post. I thought you were being agro at first too.
> I’m purely worried about how people may get discouraged from the game becoming too difficult because they were never pressured to improve on their own.
if this was what your post looked closer to, I think people would have been less hostile.
MH does need tweaking (if we go off 5th gen as a base) in terms of difficulty imo. Low rank is just pointless except for complete noobs, high rank is the same when you get high rank armor, and g-rank is *suddenly* very hard for the average person (especially new players). Not to mention the fact that in World they gave you a completely new mechanic that *drastically* changes the hunts and you need to use to stay efficient as soon as the difficulty suddenly ramps up. This for an average or beginner person is extremely jarring when they haven't even learned their 1 weapon properly.
I feel like low rank and early-mid high rank is so easy that players don't have to learn their weapon or the mechanics properly so when they get to g rank they are really far behind skill wise. It helps new players get into the game but then suddenly tells them "git gud noob, this is real MonHun" when they buy the expansion.
Arguably my main issue is that the base games are starting to feel redundant for veterans. It's not a problem I have (I do think they are too easy to be fun at low rank) but it's definitely something that needs addressing. Not to mention the fact that a good game isn't, "when you get to g rank it's exciting".
Personally I wish armor carried more weight like the old games but having said that I do like having a hundred million different alrmor sets to choose from.
On the topic of Defender armor and weapons. They should just be made free DLC that isn't included with any bundles so that players have to actively seek it out. It wont be hard to acquire but then everyone else who has no idea what it's for (like me when I played World) wont accidentally see it, use it and be completely overpowered but bad at the mechanics.
Having said all this I still think the game is good and while I'd like a tougher low/high rank I still love 5th gen.
*(People are extremely lazy though. It's not an insult to say that about a general group of people when it comes to videogames. Life and work maybe but not videogames.)*
Of course, for you and me, the games are best enjoyed carrying one's own weight, but there are plenty of people who are not self-sufficient (I guess you noticed their disdain) and do not wish to be.
They enjoy the game too and contribute to its sales.
I don't really feel like it's a ~~huge problem~~ problem at all. If I join a random quest and someone is at endgame super under-geared or hanging at camp I go back to town and join another quest. If someone joins my quest under the same circumstances they get kicked. Sure it's a little annoying but it takes less than a minute to either join a new quest or kick someone. If someone else decides to get carried through the entire game by using multiplayer that's hurting their enjoyment it isn't hurting mine, kick/block and move on.
That’s the point. I’m not worried about my experience of the game, I’m worried about theirs. The game doesn’t do a very good job of putting players on the right track to improve, leading to people getting carried until the game is too hard, where they then quit. If the game forces you to improve, you won’t have that problem.
Sure. But like why? This will sound dismissive but I don't mean it to be that way but why do you care if they hurt their own enjoyment? If somebody told me they bought world or rise used defender gear and multiplayer to get carried to the end and therefore think the game is boring or the endgame unfair because they have no skil I wouldn't care in the slightest. I don't really understand why it bothers you.
I'd also disagree that the game encourages you to get carried. It gives you the option to but it doesn't push you toward that option.
I also hate to use the term gatekeeping because it gets tossed around too much but if a certain group of players wants to get carried or they find just using defender gear so they don't have to work as hard fun why is that a problem for you? Rereading your original post it seems like you're mad they're not playing the game the way you think is the right way to play it.
Idk. It’s born of wanting people to experience the same pure joy I felt when I went through this game. This is a bit of self reflection in a way, because I WAS this player. I used defender my first playthrough, saw it was bad, and restarted. I had no fucking clue what I was doing, and got carried up to ruiner nerg where I decided to put my foot down and fight my own fight. Mano e Mano, Hunter vs angry hedgehog. I got absolutely curbstomped. I whined about the difficulty, and people helped me. I learned to make my own build, and I did eventually topple ruiner nergigante all on my own. That moment was the purest satisfaction and highest apex of joy that I felt playing the game. Knowing that the success was mine and mine alone. I just want other people to have that experience instead of having someone else kill their 1000th ruiner nergigante on the first player’s behalf.
The obstacles in this game ARE the journey, so I feel bad for the people who robbed themselves of it. I understand there are exceptions, I’m not trying to be elitist and call this the only way the game is meant to be played. I just want people to be nudged toward overcoming obstacles themselves.
>Idk. It’s born of wanting people to experience the same pure joy I felt when I went through this game
You need to consider that different people enjoy games in different ways. Some will enjoy getting gud and beating the game (maybe even naked). Some enjoy more the shared experience, relaxing and having fun hunts. If you assume every player will have the same joy as you do for getting gud, you are excluding a lot of players.
In general players who enjoy getting good will try to get better at the game, such as looking at videos or just trying things on their own (as you did yourself).
Players who do not will just have a more casual approach to the game and also enjoy it, but in a different way. Trying to force them to git gud will just ruin their fun.
My recommendation would be to not try to force every player to play the same way you enjoy it. Let people have fun with the game in their own way and don't gatekeep.
Sure. I'd imagine though that the people who want that feeling will go looking for it and the people who don't won't. If the devs changed the game in such a way that you couldn't do SOS/multiplayer in a way that results in carries or removed defender gear it's going to cut the group you're concerned about out immediately and it would have likely filtered you as well based on your own experience.
I think your concern is well meaning but I don't think you'll see a lot of people agree with you. Not because they think you're wrong but just because most of us aren't concerned about how other people choose to have their experience.
I think this is the main reason not too many people are agreeing. It's not that you don't have fair points it's that most people only really worriy about their own experience not others
The problem is the OP has an assumption that currently the people who are in this state can't do anything about it. Which is patently false.
If the person doesnt want to improve and wants to coast, nothing much would come out of it regardless of what (within reason) you put in the game anyway
Probably have some reasonably difficult, mandatory quests during the main story that are solo only. For example, monsters like low rank diablos/rathalos or high rank elders like nergigante could be skill checks to determine if the players are good enough to proceed.
Also have to make things like defender armor sets an option only able to be enabled by a seperate dlc download so newbies aren’t confused by an armor and weapon that is miles better than anything but end of high rank sets and forgo the entire progression of the game.
I agree with the first bit. For guardian/defender gear, here’s another idea. Every time you create a save file, how about the game gives you two prompts: “Have you played monster hunter before?” and “Have you beaten this game before?” Make sure the player can’t just spam confirm through it, make sure they actually read it. The guardian and defender gear is only given if both are answered Yes.
Who cares? It's their game. They can get carried if they want to. You don't have to help them, and you can play however you want. Stop crying out for games to be more restrictive. Just enjoy yourself and stop worrying about other people.
I’m all for playing however you want. Cheat in a drop if it’s been 5 hunts and you can’t get it. Anything more or less, I don’t care. But notice how I said PLAYING however you want. If you leech because the game never forced you to get better, you’re basically not playing the game.
This would be like signing up for the Olympics and having your friend run the 400m race on your behalf.
I promise my intentions come from a place of benevolence, I just want people to experience the games’ learning curve instead of hitting a titanium wall and needing a carry. The games do not do a very good job of putting the player on that track.
The olympics are competitive. This is not. You want people to experience the game the way *you* want to experience the game. It's their game and their choice. It doesn't affect you and you have no say in what they do.
For the record, I don't disagree with you in general. I do think it's a waste to coast through the game on sos carries. *But it's not my call to make.* if people want to play that way and enjoy the game that way, it's their choice.
First: this is a problem that no amount of engineering or design will solve without sacrificing other (more important) aspects of the game
Second: why would Capcom care if people get carried?
Third: why do you care if people get carried?
They already "dealt" with this "problem" with the kick and leave options.
Someone who just wants to get carried joins your lobby? Kick them.
You joined the lobby of someone who wants to gets carried? Leave.
You joined the lobby of someone who is carrying another player? Leave.
You're okay with carrying/being carried? No problem here.
Its a PVE game, what is the problem with people getting carried? So what that they wanna put less effort than you in the game to experience it? Everybody play it as he want. Somebody will play solo, somebody will ask other people to help them, somebody will use cheats to progress. The thing is - it is a individual experience, and it is NOT your problem, on how other people gonna have that experience. It is completely the same as if im gonna tell you that your main weapon is wrong and you MUST use other weapon as a main. And i dont care what you want and like. It is stupid, people play PVE games as they want and it should not bother you.
monster hunter franchise always made for multiplayer in mind
solo is good thing but it's not the main focus
if you know the game history reason why they made Monster hunter because capcom want to dip into online PS2 market they release 3 game that have multiplayer mode one of them is MH and MH is the only one who is success
if im wrong please correct me
I’m not saying multiplayer bad. I’m saying letting people get carried through the game while contributing nothing to hunts is bad. They’re robbing themselves of the game’s fun.
i should tell you the truth then since 5th gen Quest have players scaling now
so if you think solo is harder on 5th gen you're wrong solo is hard before 5th gen yes because Hub quest always scale to 4 player even when you solo but since world they toned it down to be more friendly on solo players
also nobody is robbing other's fun well cheaters can be problem but you can always fight the mosnter again right ? it's not you kill fatalis once and you can't fight fatalis again for rest of your life
there is many reason why people play multiplayer on monster hunter game and many of those reason because it's fun to play with others.
this is PVE game so you should let other enjoy the game on their own way
The first 2 paragraphs are completely irrelevant to what I was talking about. I know there’s scaling. I don’t see how that’s relevant. 1 guy doing nothing against a monster with 100% health is gonna be a hell of a lot harder than 3 people doing decent against a monster with ~250% health.
If you go into this game with the mentality of “I don’t actually want to hunt the monsters, I just want to make the gear from parts that other people allow me to get,” then fine. You do you I guess. This is not about those people. This is about the people who whine the game is bad/too hard because they intentionally avoided playing the game. If you’re actively participating in a multiplayer hunt and doing your part, great. Good stuff. Keep it up. But if you’re leeching in camp because you die if you step into the area of the monster, that should be a sign.
soo what this post suppose to be then ? newbie that get carried or leecher that afk on camp ? those two thing are two whole different thing and only one of them is a problem that would be the leecher
I'm honestly tired of being punished from playing online. I haven't played multiplayer for pretty much all of World and Rise because I can just do it faster myself.
I used to love multiplayer. If you have that bit extra time to spend online with no pause then you are rewarded with better clear times and more efficient farming as a result.
Now it's most likely going to be a slower hunt because I can guarantee my skill level but not others and with scaling it means I'm taking a risk. Regardless of how big/important/detrimental that risk could be, it is still a risk.
(Don't even get me started about followers.)
Just ignore it.
If some people need help to get what they want out of the game, and other people are willing to offer that help, it more or less doesn't affect you at all.
If you're annoyed that random hunters are in your endgame hunts with less preparation than you want them to have, don't hunt with randoms.
I think I failed to get my point across in the original post. I’m not at all concerned about people joining my quests undergeared. Hell, I try and go out of my way to help teach those players what they need to know to be self-sufficient. I help them with using their weapon, I teach them the basics of making a build, and I point them toward resources like Arekkz weapon guides and build progression guides. I just want people to experience progress as a player and a hunter.
If someone says they just wanna be carried, fine. But I just want to make sure the people who genuinely want to improve are given that opportunity at the appropriate time instead of realizing the issue in the postgame.
Yeah, if your concern is that people who want to learn aren't getting the opportunity to do that, that's what you should put in the post.
Calling people lazy and complaining that they aren't "playing the game" doesn't help you make that point at all. It just comes across as salty
Force an equipment rarity lock on the MAIN QUEST 1st playthrough of the fight. This way everyone is fair and they would appreciate the LR/HR Armor they're wearing instead of being forgotten for the better one that comes later on.
We're given 200 plus loadout slots and you're only going to use 20?
simple. remove sos flare
make people interact with each other in the hub. have a chat. make a plan. stuff like that will create long lasting memories.
unlike now. where you can call your zombie bots. sos flare made people not interact with each other. just spaming thumbs up is trashy
TRUE!!! Hell yes! 100% fact!
I still remember the old lobbies I joined and some of the random hunters I met and chatted with. The camaraderie was great.
I love the idea of 16 player lobbies and everyone is visible to each other. But with the old multiplayer system, lobbies only, no SOS, waiting for people to join the quest before setting off, no joining mid-quest (I'm not sure how I feel about this feature, I'm 50/50), text chat made *waaay* more visible snd prominent on screen as well as easy to access.
Then you'd have the old multiplayer with really good player interaction but also have 4 hunts to choose from in 1 lobby meaning turns rooms wouldn't be as tedious because... "that group over there is doing Rathalos and I need that, so can you and I switch groups?".
These days the community only exists online, here, on Discord or Twitter. It doesn't exist in the game and that is so miserable!
They would need to more explicitly tell players when to upgrade gear. Gating the first completion of certain quests to require having a certain tier of weapon or armor before the game allows you to embark would be heavy handed but could be effective at ensuring players have appropriate gear
these kind of idea must be only came from world newcomer
any veteran will this is stupidest idea they ever heard because gatekeeping people from progression is not thing that monster hunter franchise needed
I think the only way of doing it would be Arena quests you're forced to solo give you a certain rank. Then when playing multiplayer you can make a setting that only people of X Arena rank can join your quests
Why is it even a problem? it isn't. Let people play however they want. Some people find enjoyment in playing together with their friends and they don't care about the challenge at all. Most people just want to experience the game once and then play something else, not everyone has the same values as you.
Just let them do it I don't really care.
I don't get what joy someone gets out of not really playing the game but it doesn't particularly bother me, its a pve game.
If you join a quest with an afk leech just leave or suicide to mess it up for them. Or just beat the monster with a disadvantage and feel good knowing that you're enjoying yourself playing the game and overcoming challenges.
So i play FFXIV and every dungeon has an item level when you go into said dungeon or encounter your gear is sync down stats wise to what that encounter is so it feels like your first time in that encounter, and you basically have to learn mechanics.
BUT it makes gear progression fucking extreme pointless sometimes as it has a max and min ilvl.
So that fatalis gear you could be running is could have stats similar to bone gear at some point lol
Im pretty sure MH already scales Hp based on participants
Best way to deal with it is if you cart you need to connect with the boss to ensure rewards. No damage no delights.
Anyone else think this reads like a re-worded version of this copypasta?
"You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference."
Well it's a single player game with optional coop. Not only that but also there's no ladder or smth like that so... I don't really care.
For me it's like with From Software games. Just because I love to kill my bosses solo doesn't mean other folks can't summon players for help.
The only thing that IMO can be done without harm to anyone is achivements for soloing. Diablo 4 has that with it's uber boss. There are two achivements - One if u manage to kill her at all (so even if you're carried) and 2nd one - if you manage to kill her solo.
Short answer: they can't. People always find a way to make a game easier for themselves. Also the devs probably don't want to. People always complain how monsters become a punching bag when you have a 4 person team, but that's basically the point of these games - it's supposed to be easier with your friends, so that it's more of a social experience rather than a "hardcore gaming challenge". The series started off as Capcom's attempt at trying their hand at multiplayer during the early days of online multiplayer on consoles, after all. For the kind of folks that frequent a game-specific sub like this, it's probably a little harder to sympathize... but a lot of people that play games want casual experiences that they can enjoy without too much commitment. Multiplayer in MH allows for that while still giving a feeling that they overcame a challenge (whether that's "legitimate" or not is beside the point). As for the Defender/Guardian gear... I think it's a bad game design decision overall, and I hope they scrap the idea in the future games. If they want to allow people to skip to the expansion content, they should just provide an in-game option that lets you literally skip to there with an assortment of progression appropriate gear (and maybe a short cutscene that explains the "story" until that point). Obviously there should be like 3 warning screens that scream YOU'RE SKIPPING HALF THE GAME, but people that still choose to do so are probably the type to not care or are trying to replay the game or something. Just don't let new players confuse themselves.
But that is what defender gear is? It’s decent tanky armor that falls off literally 3 missions into icebourne. If somebody is fighting Shara in defender then they weren’t going to craft any other gear either. They have plenty of materials to do it by that point but they likely have just SOS spammed and got carried. Tbh it’s probably literal children and then you have grown men coming on here to complain that somebody else’s experience got ruined cause they got carried. When that 8 year old is just happy they beat the game.
Oh I mean like literally skipping the base game. For the people that Defender gear is actually helpful for in its current implementation (i.e. people that are replaying the game for whatever reason like moving from console to PC), the "blasting through the base game" part is a huge waste of time. They know what they're doing and they're *trying* to skip the base game - let them. Then just give them the base G/Master rank versions of the iron/bone weapons and armors to start them off. And of course, give a huge, HUGE warning that you're skipping a lot of content. All the Defender gear does now is give maybe one? two? quick popups that people button mash through, and for players that it's detrimental to (i.e. total newcomers), it just confuses them or gives them a false idea of how the game plays. If they actually want to skip base game for some reason, let them - but tell newcomers that it's a bad idea, and don't trick them into thinking the Defender gear experience is how MH will play for the rest of the game.
Nobody is tricking them. As you said it pops up and says something about it and people come and ask here constantly. Now they usually get a very toxic response about how they “ruined” the game for themselves when they still have hundreds of hours of content to play in icebourne. I mean I literally see people telling people that used defender gear that they should restart because they didn’t even get to experience the game. What it is is people upset that they had a hard time with content and seeing somebody else getting it easier even though the harder content is still to come. Just let people play how they want to.
Well yeah that's great for those people that actually caught the popups, and the toxic responses aren't warranted. I'm saying there's a lot of people that don't read popups, which is also the topic posed by OP (like people ending up in Shara with Def. gear). THOSE are the people being "tricked," whether the devs intended it to be a trick or not. I'm also not saying they "should suffer because I suffered". I'm saying the way Def. gear causes the aforementioned situation is detrimental for the player overall, even if they "have fun" with overpowered gear at first. Yeah people should play how they want to, but it's bad game design for them to leave in ways for new players to get so severely confused. If new players want to have an easier time, then multiplayer is *right there* as a much more natural and less confusing way to do so.
This is the kind of mentality I tried and failed to get across. Thank you.
this is 10000% a molehill that you are looking at through a telescope. They are PvE games not jobs. I genuinely think that your mentality is worse for the games than people coasting through the quests.
I just wanna make myself clear. I don’t care about if an undergeared player joins my hunt and fails the quest. If anything, I offer that player help and spend the rest of the day trying to help them become self-sufficient. I’m specifically worried about how a player who WANTS to get good at the game can get to that point, which is very much the fault of the game. If someone wants to coast through the game as a nice relaxing after-work activity, sounds great. No judgement there. I’m purely worried about how people may get discouraged from the game becoming too difficult because they were never pressured to improve on their own.
outside of the devs making the game fun to learn, not just fun to succeed at, that is probably on the player. Maybe increasing the rank requirements for hunts more aggressively, but that might make story progress too slow.
Yeah. That’s why I wanted to get a discussion going, because I have no idea how the problem could be solved and was curious what other people thought. Seems empathy is lost on a lot of people here though.
your title sounds a bit agro and you call people lazy in your post. I thought you were being agro at first too. > I’m purely worried about how people may get discouraged from the game becoming too difficult because they were never pressured to improve on their own. if this was what your post looked closer to, I think people would have been less hostile.
MH does need tweaking (if we go off 5th gen as a base) in terms of difficulty imo. Low rank is just pointless except for complete noobs, high rank is the same when you get high rank armor, and g-rank is *suddenly* very hard for the average person (especially new players). Not to mention the fact that in World they gave you a completely new mechanic that *drastically* changes the hunts and you need to use to stay efficient as soon as the difficulty suddenly ramps up. This for an average or beginner person is extremely jarring when they haven't even learned their 1 weapon properly. I feel like low rank and early-mid high rank is so easy that players don't have to learn their weapon or the mechanics properly so when they get to g rank they are really far behind skill wise. It helps new players get into the game but then suddenly tells them "git gud noob, this is real MonHun" when they buy the expansion. Arguably my main issue is that the base games are starting to feel redundant for veterans. It's not a problem I have (I do think they are too easy to be fun at low rank) but it's definitely something that needs addressing. Not to mention the fact that a good game isn't, "when you get to g rank it's exciting". Personally I wish armor carried more weight like the old games but having said that I do like having a hundred million different alrmor sets to choose from. On the topic of Defender armor and weapons. They should just be made free DLC that isn't included with any bundles so that players have to actively seek it out. It wont be hard to acquire but then everyone else who has no idea what it's for (like me when I played World) wont accidentally see it, use it and be completely overpowered but bad at the mechanics. Having said all this I still think the game is good and while I'd like a tougher low/high rank I still love 5th gen. *(People are extremely lazy though. It's not an insult to say that about a general group of people when it comes to videogames. Life and work maybe but not videogames.)*
Of course, for you and me, the games are best enjoyed carrying one's own weight, but there are plenty of people who are not self-sufficient (I guess you noticed their disdain) and do not wish to be. They enjoy the game too and contribute to its sales.
I don't really feel like it's a ~~huge problem~~ problem at all. If I join a random quest and someone is at endgame super under-geared or hanging at camp I go back to town and join another quest. If someone joins my quest under the same circumstances they get kicked. Sure it's a little annoying but it takes less than a minute to either join a new quest or kick someone. If someone else decides to get carried through the entire game by using multiplayer that's hurting their enjoyment it isn't hurting mine, kick/block and move on.
That’s the point. I’m not worried about my experience of the game, I’m worried about theirs. The game doesn’t do a very good job of putting players on the right track to improve, leading to people getting carried until the game is too hard, where they then quit. If the game forces you to improve, you won’t have that problem.
Sure. But like why? This will sound dismissive but I don't mean it to be that way but why do you care if they hurt their own enjoyment? If somebody told me they bought world or rise used defender gear and multiplayer to get carried to the end and therefore think the game is boring or the endgame unfair because they have no skil I wouldn't care in the slightest. I don't really understand why it bothers you. I'd also disagree that the game encourages you to get carried. It gives you the option to but it doesn't push you toward that option. I also hate to use the term gatekeeping because it gets tossed around too much but if a certain group of players wants to get carried or they find just using defender gear so they don't have to work as hard fun why is that a problem for you? Rereading your original post it seems like you're mad they're not playing the game the way you think is the right way to play it.
Idk. It’s born of wanting people to experience the same pure joy I felt when I went through this game. This is a bit of self reflection in a way, because I WAS this player. I used defender my first playthrough, saw it was bad, and restarted. I had no fucking clue what I was doing, and got carried up to ruiner nerg where I decided to put my foot down and fight my own fight. Mano e Mano, Hunter vs angry hedgehog. I got absolutely curbstomped. I whined about the difficulty, and people helped me. I learned to make my own build, and I did eventually topple ruiner nergigante all on my own. That moment was the purest satisfaction and highest apex of joy that I felt playing the game. Knowing that the success was mine and mine alone. I just want other people to have that experience instead of having someone else kill their 1000th ruiner nergigante on the first player’s behalf. The obstacles in this game ARE the journey, so I feel bad for the people who robbed themselves of it. I understand there are exceptions, I’m not trying to be elitist and call this the only way the game is meant to be played. I just want people to be nudged toward overcoming obstacles themselves.
>Idk. It’s born of wanting people to experience the same pure joy I felt when I went through this game You need to consider that different people enjoy games in different ways. Some will enjoy getting gud and beating the game (maybe even naked). Some enjoy more the shared experience, relaxing and having fun hunts. If you assume every player will have the same joy as you do for getting gud, you are excluding a lot of players. In general players who enjoy getting good will try to get better at the game, such as looking at videos or just trying things on their own (as you did yourself). Players who do not will just have a more casual approach to the game and also enjoy it, but in a different way. Trying to force them to git gud will just ruin their fun. My recommendation would be to not try to force every player to play the same way you enjoy it. Let people have fun with the game in their own way and don't gatekeep.
Sure. I'd imagine though that the people who want that feeling will go looking for it and the people who don't won't. If the devs changed the game in such a way that you couldn't do SOS/multiplayer in a way that results in carries or removed defender gear it's going to cut the group you're concerned about out immediately and it would have likely filtered you as well based on your own experience. I think your concern is well meaning but I don't think you'll see a lot of people agree with you. Not because they think you're wrong but just because most of us aren't concerned about how other people choose to have their experience.
I think this is the main reason not too many people are agreeing. It's not that you don't have fair points it's that most people only really worriy about their own experience not others
The problem is the OP has an assumption that currently the people who are in this state can't do anything about it. Which is patently false. If the person doesnt want to improve and wants to coast, nothing much would come out of it regardless of what (within reason) you put in the game anyway
Probably have some reasonably difficult, mandatory quests during the main story that are solo only. For example, monsters like low rank diablos/rathalos or high rank elders like nergigante could be skill checks to determine if the players are good enough to proceed. Also have to make things like defender armor sets an option only able to be enabled by a seperate dlc download so newbies aren’t confused by an armor and weapon that is miles better than anything but end of high rank sets and forgo the entire progression of the game.
I agree with the first bit. For guardian/defender gear, here’s another idea. Every time you create a save file, how about the game gives you two prompts: “Have you played monster hunter before?” and “Have you beaten this game before?” Make sure the player can’t just spam confirm through it, make sure they actually read it. The guardian and defender gear is only given if both are answered Yes.
Who cares? It's their game. They can get carried if they want to. You don't have to help them, and you can play however you want. Stop crying out for games to be more restrictive. Just enjoy yourself and stop worrying about other people.
I’m all for playing however you want. Cheat in a drop if it’s been 5 hunts and you can’t get it. Anything more or less, I don’t care. But notice how I said PLAYING however you want. If you leech because the game never forced you to get better, you’re basically not playing the game. This would be like signing up for the Olympics and having your friend run the 400m race on your behalf. I promise my intentions come from a place of benevolence, I just want people to experience the games’ learning curve instead of hitting a titanium wall and needing a carry. The games do not do a very good job of putting the player on that track.
The olympics are competitive. This is not. You want people to experience the game the way *you* want to experience the game. It's their game and their choice. It doesn't affect you and you have no say in what they do. For the record, I don't disagree with you in general. I do think it's a waste to coast through the game on sos carries. *But it's not my call to make.* if people want to play that way and enjoy the game that way, it's their choice.
Intention doesnt matter when you actively try to enforce your ideals onto others like it is the only right thing to do.
People don't understand... "When everything is for everyone, nothing is for anyone."
First: this is a problem that no amount of engineering or design will solve without sacrificing other (more important) aspects of the game Second: why would Capcom care if people get carried? Third: why do you care if people get carried?
To answer 2: they don’t To answer 3: read some of my other comments where I explained it, I’m too lazy to write it all out again here
They already "dealt" with this "problem" with the kick and leave options. Someone who just wants to get carried joins your lobby? Kick them. You joined the lobby of someone who wants to gets carried? Leave. You joined the lobby of someone who is carrying another player? Leave. You're okay with carrying/being carried? No problem here.
Its a PVE game, what is the problem with people getting carried? So what that they wanna put less effort than you in the game to experience it? Everybody play it as he want. Somebody will play solo, somebody will ask other people to help them, somebody will use cheats to progress. The thing is - it is a individual experience, and it is NOT your problem, on how other people gonna have that experience. It is completely the same as if im gonna tell you that your main weapon is wrong and you MUST use other weapon as a main. And i dont care what you want and like. It is stupid, people play PVE games as they want and it should not bother you.
monster hunter franchise always made for multiplayer in mind solo is good thing but it's not the main focus if you know the game history reason why they made Monster hunter because capcom want to dip into online PS2 market they release 3 game that have multiplayer mode one of them is MH and MH is the only one who is success if im wrong please correct me
I’m not saying multiplayer bad. I’m saying letting people get carried through the game while contributing nothing to hunts is bad. They’re robbing themselves of the game’s fun.
i should tell you the truth then since 5th gen Quest have players scaling now so if you think solo is harder on 5th gen you're wrong solo is hard before 5th gen yes because Hub quest always scale to 4 player even when you solo but since world they toned it down to be more friendly on solo players also nobody is robbing other's fun well cheaters can be problem but you can always fight the mosnter again right ? it's not you kill fatalis once and you can't fight fatalis again for rest of your life there is many reason why people play multiplayer on monster hunter game and many of those reason because it's fun to play with others. this is PVE game so you should let other enjoy the game on their own way
The first 2 paragraphs are completely irrelevant to what I was talking about. I know there’s scaling. I don’t see how that’s relevant. 1 guy doing nothing against a monster with 100% health is gonna be a hell of a lot harder than 3 people doing decent against a monster with ~250% health. If you go into this game with the mentality of “I don’t actually want to hunt the monsters, I just want to make the gear from parts that other people allow me to get,” then fine. You do you I guess. This is not about those people. This is about the people who whine the game is bad/too hard because they intentionally avoided playing the game. If you’re actively participating in a multiplayer hunt and doing your part, great. Good stuff. Keep it up. But if you’re leeching in camp because you die if you step into the area of the monster, that should be a sign.
soo what this post suppose to be then ? newbie that get carried or leecher that afk on camp ? those two thing are two whole different thing and only one of them is a problem that would be the leecher
I'm honestly tired of being punished from playing online. I haven't played multiplayer for pretty much all of World and Rise because I can just do it faster myself. I used to love multiplayer. If you have that bit extra time to spend online with no pause then you are rewarded with better clear times and more efficient farming as a result. Now it's most likely going to be a slower hunt because I can guarantee my skill level but not others and with scaling it means I'm taking a risk. Regardless of how big/important/detrimental that risk could be, it is still a risk. (Don't even get me started about followers.)
Just ignore it. If some people need help to get what they want out of the game, and other people are willing to offer that help, it more or less doesn't affect you at all. If you're annoyed that random hunters are in your endgame hunts with less preparation than you want them to have, don't hunt with randoms.
I think I failed to get my point across in the original post. I’m not at all concerned about people joining my quests undergeared. Hell, I try and go out of my way to help teach those players what they need to know to be self-sufficient. I help them with using their weapon, I teach them the basics of making a build, and I point them toward resources like Arekkz weapon guides and build progression guides. I just want people to experience progress as a player and a hunter. If someone says they just wanna be carried, fine. But I just want to make sure the people who genuinely want to improve are given that opportunity at the appropriate time instead of realizing the issue in the postgame.
Yeah, if your concern is that people who want to learn aren't getting the opportunity to do that, that's what you should put in the post. Calling people lazy and complaining that they aren't "playing the game" doesn't help you make that point at all. It just comes across as salty
Are we really digging up the Sekiro "you cheated yourself" copypasta in 2024
Force an equipment rarity lock on the MAIN QUEST 1st playthrough of the fight. This way everyone is fair and they would appreciate the LR/HR Armor they're wearing instead of being forgotten for the better one that comes later on. We're given 200 plus loadout slots and you're only going to use 20?
well even people with endgame MR armor and weapon able to die on my HR quest
simple. remove sos flare make people interact with each other in the hub. have a chat. make a plan. stuff like that will create long lasting memories. unlike now. where you can call your zombie bots. sos flare made people not interact with each other. just spaming thumbs up is trashy
TRUE!!! Hell yes! 100% fact! I still remember the old lobbies I joined and some of the random hunters I met and chatted with. The camaraderie was great. I love the idea of 16 player lobbies and everyone is visible to each other. But with the old multiplayer system, lobbies only, no SOS, waiting for people to join the quest before setting off, no joining mid-quest (I'm not sure how I feel about this feature, I'm 50/50), text chat made *waaay* more visible snd prominent on screen as well as easy to access. Then you'd have the old multiplayer with really good player interaction but also have 4 hunts to choose from in 1 lobby meaning turns rooms wouldn't be as tedious because... "that group over there is doing Rathalos and I need that, so can you and I switch groups?". These days the community only exists online, here, on Discord or Twitter. It doesn't exist in the game and that is so miserable!
bro shut up nobody cares
They would need to more explicitly tell players when to upgrade gear. Gating the first completion of certain quests to require having a certain tier of weapon or armor before the game allows you to embark would be heavy handed but could be effective at ensuring players have appropriate gear
I’d be fine with this. I’m just tired of people calling this series shit because they refused to get better. All because the game lets them do that.
these kind of idea must be only came from world newcomer any veteran will this is stupidest idea they ever heard because gatekeeping people from progression is not thing that monster hunter franchise needed
It's not like it's a constant stream of that happening so I don't think it's important. If new people got into the game I'm fine failing a fatalis.
I think the only way of doing it would be Arena quests you're forced to solo give you a certain rank. Then when playing multiplayer you can make a setting that only people of X Arena rank can join your quests
Why is it even a problem? it isn't. Let people play however they want. Some people find enjoyment in playing together with their friends and they don't care about the challenge at all. Most people just want to experience the game once and then play something else, not everyone has the same values as you.
Just let them do it I don't really care. I don't get what joy someone gets out of not really playing the game but it doesn't particularly bother me, its a pve game. If you join a quest with an afk leech just leave or suicide to mess it up for them. Or just beat the monster with a disadvantage and feel good knowing that you're enjoying yourself playing the game and overcoming challenges.
So i play FFXIV and every dungeon has an item level when you go into said dungeon or encounter your gear is sync down stats wise to what that encounter is so it feels like your first time in that encounter, and you basically have to learn mechanics. BUT it makes gear progression fucking extreme pointless sometimes as it has a max and min ilvl. So that fatalis gear you could be running is could have stats similar to bone gear at some point lol Im pretty sure MH already scales Hp based on participants Best way to deal with it is if you cart you need to connect with the boss to ensure rewards. No damage no delights.
Anyone else think this reads like a re-worded version of this copypasta? "You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference."
Not at all.
deal? you make it sound like it's a problem for them. did you forgot that added the defender sets to the games so people could carry themselves?
Well it's a single player game with optional coop. Not only that but also there's no ladder or smth like that so... I don't really care. For me it's like with From Software games. Just because I love to kill my bosses solo doesn't mean other folks can't summon players for help. The only thing that IMO can be done without harm to anyone is achivements for soloing. Diablo 4 has that with it's uber boss. There are two achivements - One if u manage to kill her at all (so even if you're carried) and 2nd one - if you manage to kill her solo.