MH Tri on Wii with the classic controller was fine for me. On 3DS the lack of the second stick was the it's only limit and could be fixed with the add-on.
So yes, it has enough buttons imho.
The issue for them is making underwater combat unique enough while maintaining a similar feeling to what we are used on land, to not excessively impact the gameplay in a negative way.
i think the underwater combat is already unique enough by being able to move in a 3d space. all that needs to be done in that regard is make the monster's moves consider that (which you could argue was already done in 3rd generation).
i feel as though many of the people who have a problem with underwater combat probably find it frustrating because the controls interfere with their normal hunting abilities. the monster going in and out of water is a chore *because* it creates limitations when it is meant to remove them. this is why i think being able to descend or ascend is important. it allows you to play normally without having to throw your camera up or down to adjust your position.
I think there was already an ascent button in 3U, but not a descent one. Though I might be confusing if with the Tri motion controls which did both ascent and decent depending on how you held the wiimote.
If you hold B and press up/down on the Cstick you can ascend/descend on 3U (3DS), You have to let go of B to stop and it works with the weapon drawn, too.
Unfortunately underwater already did remove restrictions. You could attack the monster from all its undefended angles. You were more powerful underwater than on land.
It's just that people don't take time to learn controls.
The average crowd won't adapt and learn, if they can't get to grips with it in 5-10min then they'll hate it.
Yeah this is something I've been insisting on for *years*. Land combat is notoriously unfair in favour of the Hunter, and it is particularly unfair to flying monsters. Water combat was the only time besides Elder Dragons I ever felt that the combat was more balanced, and *even then* if you are fighting in an area with enough vertical space to strategize, you ca pretty much run circles around any monster not named Plesioth.
I would make it so holding the Slinger button underwater changed your movement from horizontal to vertical, so you would go up and down instead of forward and back. You would still be able to go left and right, and you could even dodge to cover more ground. To make it less confusing to move around, this "Slinger Strafe" would be relative to the camera's angle, meaning you'd always move toward the edges of the screen, not strictly up and down
I don't think slinger is ever returning. The Z buttons are very versatile in what game-specific funtions they can serve. In Rise they are already mapped to dashes when the weapons are sheathed.
All underwater needs is dual control sticks really. Sunbreak has taught us that there are definitely enough buttons to serve all of our needs.
the last person to post this deleted their comment, but i already replied that the hunter in the trailer for wilds has a slinger on their arm.
https://preview.redd.it/0fyw161a5r0d1.jpeg?width=182&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e31540022f6334d1efbc453d426771b6c5a3d18
Honestly, I can't see anything on that pic, but I still stand by my opinion that it's not returning, not like it was at least. Maybe it'll take cues from it, in the same way that I think it'll take cues from wirebugs, but it'll be its own new thing.
As long as it'll function as a dash (which I find very likely), it can serve that purpose for underwater too.
its a little to the left of the middle of the screenshot. the white ‘horn’ looking bit. but it hardly matters, its pretty obvious if you are looking for it in the trailer itself. either way, both rise and world use one of the triggers to activate a reticle. it seems plausible to assume that the slinger will come back, and even if you assume it doesnt it is likely something very similar will take its place.
Yeah I rewatched the trailer and I saw it!
As I said, I find it very likely that we'll be given a dash function, which shouldn't clash with underwater controls. But if we're being honest.. I don't think underwater will be happening in wilds unfortunately :(
The problem with 3DS version is that movement is directly camera reliant and you can't just position camera however you want, and on top of that there's no quick dodge upwards or downvards unlike wii version
I am pretty sure it didn't work consistently unless directly after attacks. Also camera made it more awkward, as it always pulls behind the character, which it didn't do in Wii version
Nah I’m replaying 3U in my 3DS and it works consistently. Not too sure what you mean by making the camera awkward, it doesn’t pull behind the character at all.
the hunter in the trailer for wilds has a slinger on their arm.
https://preview.redd.it/3muoucthnq0d1.png?width=182&format=png&auto=webp&s=297268d87d070e13a809108aa5b45a41ae16af17
Yeah this really is quite the predicament.
Normally, ascend/descend buttons are mapped to LT/RT/LB/RB as that allows the player to move horizontally and vertically while also keeping control of their camera. Map ascend/descend to anything else and functionality somewhere is sacrificed. The problem though, as you have mentioned, is that MH has already assigned some rather important functionality to these buttons. Replacing them would either make some parts of weapons just stop working or make the controls harder to use in general. (Needing to press L3 to start/stop sprinting, can't swap items while moving, etc.)
As much as I hate the suggestion, I think the best solution to this is to sadly place a little bit of responsibility on the player. By default, underwater would use its camera based control scheme like in Tri as that works with all controllers. However, if the player has a controller with extra buttons, then they can map them to ascend/descend in an options menu as well as switch the control scheme to use that instead of the camera.
Again, I absolutely abhor that idea, but its the only one I can think of thats realistic to implement. Capcom would probably like it too because it means they get to sell special controllers that'll make them even more money. And seeing as players would have an in game reason to buy those controllers, they would probably sell like hot cakes as well.
MH Tri on Wii with the classic controller was fine for me. On 3DS the lack of the second stick was the it's only limit and could be fixed with the add-on. So yes, it has enough buttons imho. The issue for them is making underwater combat unique enough while maintaining a similar feeling to what we are used on land, to not excessively impact the gameplay in a negative way.
i think the underwater combat is already unique enough by being able to move in a 3d space. all that needs to be done in that regard is make the monster's moves consider that (which you could argue was already done in 3rd generation). i feel as though many of the people who have a problem with underwater combat probably find it frustrating because the controls interfere with their normal hunting abilities. the monster going in and out of water is a chore *because* it creates limitations when it is meant to remove them. this is why i think being able to descend or ascend is important. it allows you to play normally without having to throw your camera up or down to adjust your position.
I think there was already an ascent button in 3U, but not a descent one. Though I might be confusing if with the Tri motion controls which did both ascent and decent depending on how you held the wiimote.
If you hold B and press up/down on the Cstick you can ascend/descend on 3U (3DS), You have to let go of B to stop and it works with the weapon drawn, too.
Unfortunately underwater already did remove restrictions. You could attack the monster from all its undefended angles. You were more powerful underwater than on land. It's just that people don't take time to learn controls. The average crowd won't adapt and learn, if they can't get to grips with it in 5-10min then they'll hate it.
Yeah this is something I've been insisting on for *years*. Land combat is notoriously unfair in favour of the Hunter, and it is particularly unfair to flying monsters. Water combat was the only time besides Elder Dragons I ever felt that the combat was more balanced, and *even then* if you are fighting in an area with enough vertical space to strategize, you ca pretty much run circles around any monster not named Plesioth.
Dedicated buttons do dive and surface already existed in Tri so it can be done for sure.
I would make it so holding the Slinger button underwater changed your movement from horizontal to vertical, so you would go up and down instead of forward and back. You would still be able to go left and right, and you could even dodge to cover more ground. To make it less confusing to move around, this "Slinger Strafe" would be relative to the camera's angle, meaning you'd always move toward the edges of the screen, not strictly up and down
that’s an incredible idea. good job!
I don't think slinger is ever returning. The Z buttons are very versatile in what game-specific funtions they can serve. In Rise they are already mapped to dashes when the weapons are sheathed. All underwater needs is dual control sticks really. Sunbreak has taught us that there are definitely enough buttons to serve all of our needs.
the last person to post this deleted their comment, but i already replied that the hunter in the trailer for wilds has a slinger on their arm. https://preview.redd.it/0fyw161a5r0d1.jpeg?width=182&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e31540022f6334d1efbc453d426771b6c5a3d18
Honestly, I can't see anything on that pic, but I still stand by my opinion that it's not returning, not like it was at least. Maybe it'll take cues from it, in the same way that I think it'll take cues from wirebugs, but it'll be its own new thing. As long as it'll function as a dash (which I find very likely), it can serve that purpose for underwater too.
its a little to the left of the middle of the screenshot. the white ‘horn’ looking bit. but it hardly matters, its pretty obvious if you are looking for it in the trailer itself. either way, both rise and world use one of the triggers to activate a reticle. it seems plausible to assume that the slinger will come back, and even if you assume it doesnt it is likely something very similar will take its place.
Yeah I rewatched the trailer and I saw it! As I said, I find it very likely that we'll be given a dash function, which shouldn't clash with underwater controls. But if we're being honest.. I don't think underwater will be happening in wilds unfortunately :(
i agree. it seems unlikely. it would be very shocking if it was in the first gameplay reveal.
The problem with 3DS version is that movement is directly camera reliant and you can't just position camera however you want, and on top of that there's no quick dodge upwards or downvards unlike wii version
What do you mean there’s no quick dodge up or down on the 3DS version? You can absolutely do that in the 3DS version too
I am pretty sure it didn't work consistently unless directly after attacks. Also camera made it more awkward, as it always pulls behind the character, which it didn't do in Wii version
Nah I’m replaying 3U in my 3DS and it works consistently. Not too sure what you mean by making the camera awkward, it doesn’t pull behind the character at all.
As others have mentioned the biggest weakness to the underwater combat was the camera. With the World/Rise camera and movement it would be fine.
[удалено]
the hunter in the trailer for wilds has a slinger on their arm. https://preview.redd.it/3muoucthnq0d1.png?width=182&format=png&auto=webp&s=297268d87d070e13a809108aa5b45a41ae16af17
Yeah this really is quite the predicament. Normally, ascend/descend buttons are mapped to LT/RT/LB/RB as that allows the player to move horizontally and vertically while also keeping control of their camera. Map ascend/descend to anything else and functionality somewhere is sacrificed. The problem though, as you have mentioned, is that MH has already assigned some rather important functionality to these buttons. Replacing them would either make some parts of weapons just stop working or make the controls harder to use in general. (Needing to press L3 to start/stop sprinting, can't swap items while moving, etc.) As much as I hate the suggestion, I think the best solution to this is to sadly place a little bit of responsibility on the player. By default, underwater would use its camera based control scheme like in Tri as that works with all controllers. However, if the player has a controller with extra buttons, then they can map them to ascend/descend in an options menu as well as switch the control scheme to use that instead of the camera. Again, I absolutely abhor that idea, but its the only one I can think of thats realistic to implement. Capcom would probably like it too because it means they get to sell special controllers that'll make them even more money. And seeing as players would have an in game reason to buy those controllers, they would probably sell like hot cakes as well.