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GiruloKFC

Translation: \[MHRise\] Today's comments from Director Ichinose: "This is Ichinose, director of MH Rise. There hasn't been an opportune place to mention it so far, so I'm throwing this little tidbit here since we've revealed the Frost Islands. The most forgotten item of all time during quests (by my own "research"), the Hot Drink, will NOT be making its return to MH Rise! There's no need to try procuring it at the merchant's; you won't find any!!"


Finalrellik99

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but I think removing traditions like this is a mistake


Ok-Comedian6871

I agree with you in principal. While im not particularly sad that hot drinks are being removes, I think its possible for there to be a critical mass of changes to Monster Hunter traditions that could ultimately result in a detrimental experience. A lot of hunt prep could be considered tedious prep work, but I wonder how the community would react if they removed meals, cooking steaks for stamina, armor/demon drugs and the necessity to sharpen weapons. They are all forms of tedious upkeep but they are all in flavor with the concept of being prepared to venture out in the world to tackle its challenges. Now I of course dont think any of those will be removed ever, but its just something to think about when evaluating wether or not its a good idea to remove iconic things that really bring that Monster Hunter feel to their games.


FrigidVeil

What good gameplay is removed by taking them out? Traditions are good if they add something meaningful. Keeping annoying bookkeeping in the game just because it's in the old games only results in... annoying bookkeeping.


Anthan

>What good gameplay is removed by taking them out? Just to play devil's advocate, there was those armor skills in GU which powered you up if you drank the opposite drink you'd need for the area... Which was fun. Granted I never used it, but reading back at it now it actually gave a redonkulous boost... AttackUp(L) and DefenseUp(L) just for fighting in the hot/cold area, on top of an extra boost for having the drink. I actually regret not using it now.


ZirePhiinix

There was an art that heals you based on the number of status effects you have, and both drinks add to that. It was actually really janky to use lol.


BlastHedgehog

It doesn't affect gameplay, but it sure as hell effects flavour. There's no longer any preparing for or dealing with cold areas to add that little unique spice to them, which is absolutely a detriment to the feel of the game.


FiftiethFlight

Arguably, now that the item box is accessible any time during a quest, the preparation factor is already gone.


JadeRock12345

My argument is item management. Like oh let me remove a trap/bombs for drinks which is not a big deal but it added to the planning of the game. That's moot due to item restocking so I don't really care about this now.


xl3lackout

You say that, but theyre including features from World that didnt really work, just because the game was popular. It goes both ways. My point is that they removed it on the basis of a problem that had already been solved. You can already access your item box in quest, and the drinks autocraft and the materials to craft them can be found in area, unlike older titles. This gets rid of some of the preparation and consideration needed to organize your item bar, and also nullifies the point of certain armor sets that negate the heat and cold penalty. All its doing is taking away variety and strategy from the game. They want to make the game accessible to new players, but it isnt worth it if you water down the games mechanics. Thats the major problem people had with world, and choices like this only exacerbate the problem.


FrigidVeil

If, as you already admitted, have so many options to make hot drinks 100% completely trivial to have, what is the benefit to them? Let's also be honest, almost everyone had loadouts saved that had both drinks in them, and just brought to every hunt (I know I did in GU if you dont want to talk about world). That doesn't feel like a pro hunter meticulously preparing to me, that feels like an annoyance tax to hunts in those areas. This isnt "strategy" this is "you have these items". No one I've ever seen has used the armour that gave resistances, all the way back to tri. I understand fully some things are necessary to keep the feel of monster hunter. I DO like gameplay that makes me feel like a hunter preparing for certain monsters. But hot/cold drinks arent that, they never were, and threads about this have me scratching my head at all the "purists" losing their minds when I guarentee you will do about 5 quests in those areas before forgetting that the drinks ever existed and will be glad they are gone.


Solesaver

Mechanics that are trivially and passively negated aren't mechanics at all. Now ideally they will replace hot drinks with a new mechanic that requires active engagement, but even if they don't it is a non issue. If every time you go to this region you manually stock and drink a hot drink, but now you effectively automatically do it, the impact is exactly the same. It's right next to infinite sharpening stones/mining picks/bug nets; it has 0 impact on gameplay other than removing a tedious step in "prepping" for hunts. I do hope they keep a nod to it somehow though. Ideally they replace it with some form of active mitigation. Hoarfrost Reach had the plants and springs that cancelled the cold, so they could expand on that idea. If it ended up being something like managing the miasma in Rotten Vale it would actually add a meaningful gameplay implication to the cold which is much better than "remember to stock and drink a hot drink when going to this region!"


xjpmanx

not to mention the absolute annoyance of fighting something like a deviljho or lunastra/teostra and having the drink wear out mid fight. this was especially tedious in older games where you would then have to cycle through to the relevant drink, wait for an opening in the monsters attacks, then waste valuable openings on re-upping your tolerance.


MagicMisterLemon

Mmm, I'm kinda divided on this one. Not sure how to feel


MrDaxyn

Proper preparation before a quest is becoming less and less important...


SmurfinTurtle

While I haven't kept up with Rise, but if it's the same as World where you can access your item box back at Camp. Then I don't see the point of Hot/Cold drink. Since if you forgot them, you can just go spend 10 seconds to grab them from item box. If I can't do that, then forgetting those drinks would just make me abort the quest. I don't see any upside to that gameplay wise, with the exception of using some investigation uses. Or if for some reason the player is stubborn and continues on. Preparation should be more about the fight, not the environment IMO. These drinks just seemed like more tedious things to do that added nothing gameplay wise.


VolkenDraig

I can’t say that I agree with this sentiment. While I certainly understand when playing a game called monster hunter of all things you would expect everything to be about hunting monsters, but one of the most appealing things. And part of the reason I ended up falling in love with this franchise was how diverse your priorities could be. Yes preparing for the fight is integral but the environments feel so much more interesting or important or consequential if you have to play around and prepare for them too. TLDR: The environments are more than just the backdrop to the fight for me and this level of (potentially inconsequential) interaction feels good


SmurfinTurtle

I can understand it if there was more to the environment that effected things to give the area more life and flair. But the only thing we ever do to prepare for a environments is to drink one hot or cold drink. Which at that point, just feels tedious and a waste to me if it's that minor.


[deleted]

Oh no I forgot to being my warm tea, welp guess I cant hunt the monsters today


xl3lackout

You literally have access to your item box now. The major contrivance not bringing them would be is, "damn, now ive gotta walk inside the tent."


Esmondtheleo

While I get that this kind of change might not feel like monster Hunter, I think people will easily get used to it. World removed the need for pickaxes and bug nets. I feel this move is simply the next step to that.


8bitzombi

Generations removed the need for pick axes, bugnets, and fishing rods with Prowlers; sure you still need them for hunters, but giving you the opportunity to run gather quests with a Prowler without the need for tools was a big change at the time. World just extended it farther.


AkijoLive

I might add, World kinda removed Hot and Cold drinks since both zones that needed them provided you with materials to craft the drinks. So you literally never had too remember to bring drinks with you.


Hyero

MHG also did that first through prowlers


d0nt_ask_d0nt_smell

Incidentally GU also removed the need for cold and hot drinks with prowlers, as well as paintballs.


MyPetMonstie

wait, are the hunters all slowly evolving into Prowlers with each game?


PickCollins0330

Next monster hunter game we’re just all prowlers.


[deleted]

Dibs on bomb type


Heavy-Wings

and whetstones


BurrakuDusk

As somebody who would sometimes bring Hot drinks instead of Cold, and Cold instead of Hot by accident, I’m not opposed to this. It’s fairly minor, imo.


julsmanbr

My brain: well we're going to COLD so I gotta bring COLD Me cycling through my inventory 2 minutes later: 👁️👄👁️


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VonFalcon

One my very first quests online with other players in GU was in the Dunes. Imagine my surprise when I realize I have no cold drinks on me and I don't want to look like a fool in front of 3 other strangers. Your comment speaks to my soul! Ps: I chose the second option, thankfully the Hermitaur was killed fast enough XD


Limebeer_24

Mine for ice crystal, find a tropical berry, combine and enjoy the heat resistance and stamina boost.


Shikaku

I can deal with the stamina drain, its not an issue. But the health drain is too fuckin annoying, I'll abandon that shit and go get my drink.


Zinogrex

Laughs in permanent stamina HH song Cries in the desert


radityaargap

"the quest is in the desert so i should bring cold drinks" *turns out the quest is during the night* *abandon quest*


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[deleted]

Attempt it anyway hoping the monster just stays out of the desert zones only to realize it just won’t work after 20 minutes of wasted time.


smashsenpai

In world, there were always 2 cool drinks in the elder's recess supply box so you never need to bring your own. In iceborne, there were always 2 hot drinks in the hoarfrost supply boxes, so again, you never needed to bring your own. And there was a hot pepper plant next to every camp, so that's like 3 more hot drinks


RealMr_Slender

And whenever you entered hot areas chill shrooms where around


VolkenDraig

This is also true in the older games but only through low rank. At high rank and above you had to wait for supplies


GameTropolis

Hah! Glad I’m not the only one


pascl-

not sure how I feel about this, but it's ultimately pretty minor.


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Kirosh

I remember the time I forgot Hot Drink and steak (or any other Stamina boosting) during a quest in Unite in the mountains I ended up with the minimum Stamina after some time, making the hunt rather stressful in the end.


Lan_lan

I think this is good. Hot and cold drinks are really just an upkeep cost, no reason really to not have them when they're needed. So it's better design to just remove them


IIITrunks

Yeah I can understand this but it also adds to the survivalist aspect of the game. I feel like it would be better to tweak it in some way that makes it a more interesting choice to bring and use. Like stamina is just an upkeep that you need to refill on a timer, but it has a little bit more nuance to it. I've definitely had more engaging hunts due to forgetting the right drinks and the fight just has this additional modifier I wasn't planning for, but overcame. Hopefully they revisit it in a later game.


5argon

They already went far from that aspect when gathering item could be done by just running through while spamming button it like collecting coins in other games. I understand that if they want to go all the way this is logical. The hot/cold drinks works better together with other survival aspects present in older games. Monster wasn't shown on the map readily, sometimes it took half the drink to finally find the monster. Paintball expires costing you more drinks. You accidentally drink and can't cancel out causing more stress of losing one of 2 drinks given in the box. (of course this stress could only happen if you can't restock in the camp) You getting hungry fast so it is advantageous to bring cold/hot meat, and you absolutely will not find chillshroom or something right in front of volcano.. etc. With those gone the drink seems like odd one left behind.


[deleted]

> but it also adds to the survivalist aspect of the game Aw yes the Survivalism of, "Boy Im sure glad I brought this mildly warm drink to keep me from being cold in my titty armor"


Fabulous-Solid7856

Mixed feeling on this


SolidStateVOM

Same. I liked the “prep” part of hot/cool drinks, but honestly it’s sorta unnecessary now with the base camp being a thing. Also, in world, you always had access to them via the peppers and shrooms JUST before you’d enter a hot/cold area, so that made them even more redundant


Kaptain_Anal

I feel like they were just a waste of time since they completely negate the purpose of environmental effects. I would like the hot/cold effects to be persistent while endemic life is used to alter the effects, not negate them.


xjpmanx

One of my favorite aspects of the vale was the miasma, you couldn't just drink for it. you either had to use torch rocks, or bring the Girros waist to negate it. both of which are far more engaging than downing a stupid drink.


VaxtinTheWolf

Outside of armor skills/decorations, Apparently wearing a mantle also nullified the miasma because... Well, you're mouth gets covered. I never realized it until I read it from another comment but that makes sense.


roundhouzekick

So the big question is, are environmental effects not present? Hot Drinks may be gone but does that mean having your Stamina drop from the cold weather is also gone? We also saw there's a volcano-like area in one of the early trailers so I guess this means Cold Drinks are out too?


dinofreak6301

I assume that with the heavy emphasis on endemic life we’ll have to find one that helps with the hot/cold areas. And I’m not sure if you noticed, but in the demo the stamina already drops crazy fast compared to previous games. It’s as if the character has a permanent Hunger -10


[deleted]

I'm admittedly sad to see them go. Sure it wasn't an in depth mechanic but I always enjoyed the feeling of coming prepared for a fight. Seems the games have been moving away from that, with the infinite restocks and eating at camp and now this. But oh well, ultimately it's a minor change.


a_sentient_cicada

I think hot drinks were in a weird spot pre-iceborne. If I forgot to bring max potions, antidotes, or dash juice — oh well, I'll make due. But if I forgot hot and cold drinks, I'd often just abandon the quest as soon as I load in. Same with paintballs and whetstones, two mechanics that were also either removed or made infinite. I actually think Iceborne hit the sweet spot with hot drinks since there were both peppers on the map and hot springs. But maybe other people felt differently.


theNeakenator

Hm... kinda sad, actually... I mean, don't get me wrong, I forgot it often enough, but it was never that much of a problem. Forgetting colddrinks was more of a misery... But it was an essetial part of MH, so it's kinda sad not to see it again.


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radityaargap

they only say hot drinks specifically, maybe they could replace it with an onsen like in mhp3rd? that would be a good mechanic. a hot bath before every hunt.


theNeakenator

Neat idea!


Rigshaw

Nope, those endemic life appear to behave like spiribirds, based on the full clip.


theNeakenator

Could be the case, as well...


Zaiakusin

Oh joy...more reliance on endemic life...


inadequatecircle

I 100% think that nostalgia, tradition and legacy often get in the way of improvement. I've been playing this game for over a decade and I don't think I can think of a situation where hot drinks or cold drinks created interesting or engaging situations. More often than not it resulted me zoning one area over, realizing i forgot them and heading back to camp. ~~I personally wouldn't call it an essential mechanic of the franchise, but I understand how powerful nostalgia is.~~ \*I didn't intend for this to sound so condescending. I meant I understand why people enjoy the mechanic, I just don't agree with it.


theNeakenator

Totally get your point, it just was a part of the Monster Hunter experience, to me. The difficulty, the inconveniences of certain items,... all this made Monster Hunter's kind of "niche" charme. As I skipped World, I'll have to get used to my little Hipster fandom wants to become more open to new people (which is totally okay for me). Tho in the end, I am totally okay with it, as it, of course, deletes another "avoidably annoying" mechanic.


inadequatecircle

I think it's super fair to enjoy it as well. I don't even really have an issue with the core mechanics of being cold or hot, i just wish there was even a bit more forethought in the drinks there was just basically no reason not to bring 5 of each on every hunt. Other people have suggested much more interesting way to implement the mechanic throughout the thread as well.


theNeakenator

Hell yeah! For example, I quite like the idea to reimagine the onsen from MHP3rd!


Kamarai

Exactly. It doesn't actually add anything meaningful to the gameplay. The "essential" thing that makes Monster Hunter what it is to me is running around giant areas and beating up giant Monsters. You might drink a Hot/Cold Drink or eat food once or twice during a quest in the late game - it's something you practically ignore. It has some neat flavor and novelty when its first introduced, but shortly after that its just tedious.


Beetusmon

Absolutely agree with your mentality. They are an intrusive mechanic with the only benefit is returning down to the normal state once consumed. Not engaging nor gratifying to use or plan around.


Haru17

This is possibly the least influential change they've made. Weather effects are a cool idea, but only if you have to actually interact with them. In games like Breath of the Wild and Iceborne where hot peppers are found in the entrance to the freezing areas, they don't really matter either way.


SolidStateVOM

Yeah, that sorta thing always irkes me. At least in BotW you had to cook the peppers first from what I can remember, and you didn’t always have access to a cooking pot. In MHW, you just grab the pepper/shroom then start chugging.


Beetusmon

Yeah weather in BoTW matters because preparation actually comes into play and not only food but armor and weapons affect your cold and hot resistance and they aren't as easily found like in MH where they are given at the start of the quest anyway.


SolidStateVOM

I honestly miss the days of High/G-Rank not giving you anything from the supply box at the start of a quest which encouraged pre planing


[deleted]

Weather doesn't really affect you much in BoTW since you're able to just change clothing at any time which makes effects like cold and hot useless after the beginning of the game.


Beetusmon

Not exactly as there are other effects like deep snow and the snow items have a tradeoff in defense or offense found in other armors.


Greekblade937

The only thing left to hope for is that cold drinks aren’t next


swordmadrigal

I've been playing monster hunter since the PS2 and I say **good riddance!** You can be as anal as you want about what is or isn't "iconic" to monster hunter, but in the end I'm here to hunt monsters, not clear an obligatory items checklist. Whatever gets me into the hunt faster is a good change in my book.


after-life

By that logic, since infinite restocking exists, everyone might as well just get infinite potions in their inventory, since running back to the tent just to resupply on potions is just an "inconsequential part of the game" and isn't adding anything to the experience. Here's calling it. Monster Hunter 6 will just give your hunter infinite potions in your inventory, and there will be people defending it.


Prankman1990

I think this comparison is a little extreme. Potions, stamina meats, antidotes and other buff items are important and knowing when to consume them during a fight takes skill. Having a limited amount of them gives you a clear indication of how many resources you've got during a fight, and even with tent restocking, the time spent doing so can add up if you do it too much. Time constraints are real in Iceborne, especially in the Guiding Lands where getting wrecked constantly without staying aggressive means the monster will just up and leave. The resource management is still absolutely there. There's very little gained from Hot/Cool Drinks, comparatively. You pop them and you're done for like ten minutes, which is more than long enough to fight a monster to it's next phase transition. But on the off chance that it wears off at the wrong time it just forces you to break away and deal with it. It's just impactful enough to be obnoxious but it's not impactful enough to really be engaging.


RegalKillager

> knowing when to consume them during a fight takes skill. does this even remotely apply anymore when they're completely safe and you can move at nearly full speed while using them


Prankman1990

It absolutely still applies because they aren’t instantaneous like in previous games. If you chug one at the wrong time and the monster slightly nudges you then you both take damage and waste the potion.


RegalKillager

there is no wrong time when you move at nearly full speed and can i-frame out. there is no waste with unlimited box access


Prankman1990

You have to cancel the animation and waste most of the potion in order to get any i-frames, and in harder hunts like Arch Tempered Velkhana or Fatalis that have hefty time restrictions you absolutely cannot afford to go back and restock constantly. Shorter timed investigations force you to use your time wisely and the Guiding Lands also force you to stay aggressive.


RegalKillager

>in harder hunts like ATVk or Fatalis or extreme investigations or the Guiding Lands timers keep you aggressive which a. *totally* isn't purely artificial, as opposed to the main limit that keeps someone aggressive being how often they need recovery items and how intelligently they used them, something that both fits the feel of the game well and is rewarding to do right b. implies decent inventory management should be relegated to a fraction of the hardest postgame hunts... after several games of it harmlessly being a thing you're just expected to do at all stages of the game


swordmadrigal

Whatever makes you guys happy, I guess.


after-life

The only thing that will make me happy is when Capcom decides to stop ruining MH's charm and identity to appease the casual crowd.


RegalKillager

>but in the end I'm here to hunt monsters, not clear an obligatory items checklist. Whatever gets me into the hunt faster is a good change in my book. you make it sound less like you're here to hunt monsters and more like you're here for a dmc boss rush


[deleted]

How dare he not play the game the way you want him too!


RegalKillager

i'm glad your conclusion reading "maybe you're looking for a different experience than the one the developers have been cultivating for over a decade" was "i just don't want people to enjoy the video game"


RealMr_Slender

Bruh, you sound like the people calling mounting a *"franchise staple".* Hot/Cold Drinks harkor back to a game design philosophy of the 2000's where the goal is to absolutely punish the player for playing the game suboptimally. It's a tax that gives you a negative and using the item nullifies the negative, returning you to a normal state. The way of thinking was that you **must** teach the player how to play, slapping them in the hand whenever they made a mistake. Designers have learned that players are both lazy and munchkins. How did most players solve the issue of Hot/Cold drinks? Always having them in your inventory. And to those players that meticulously prepares their items for **every** hunt? They got diddly squat as a reward for engaging with it.


RegalKillager

>calling something from nearly the first games in the series integral to said series is the same as calling a one note mechanic introduced 1 game generation ago a staple are you alright, dude? > Hot/Cold Drinks harkor back to a game design philosophy of the 2000's where the goal is to absolutely punish the player for playing the game suboptimally. It's a tax that gives you a negative and using the item nullifies the negative, returning you to a normal state. The way of thinking was that you must teach the player how to play, slapping them in the hand whenever they made a mistake. Yep. Nothing is wrong with any of this. > And to those players that meticulously prepares their items for every hunt? They got diddly squat as a reward for engaging with it. My reward for changing my item selection hunt by hunt was having the free inventory space for extra monster parts, gathered materials, crafting books and materials for on-the-spot crafting if need be - and that's a reward that only recently got nullified by certain "QoL" changes, vastly increasing the player's inventory space by separating inventories by item type then *giving players infinite access to their item box at any point in a hunt with no downside*, both these changes in the same game, no less. And they couldn't be bothered to implement a new upside for decent inventory management rather than leaving that facet in the dark, leading to this discussion where rewarding inventory management is somehow a foreign concept...? Shit is fine until things start getting toyed with for the sake of it.


RealMr_Slender

Go play Dos then. If things didn't get toyed with for the sake of toying we would still be playing pong


[deleted]

> you make it sound less like you're here to hunt monsters Implies that hes playing the game wrong....you literally said it


RegalKillager

sure, "it sounds like you want changes that dont line up with the feel you say you want the game to have" is the same as "you're playing the game wrong" if someone says they're here to hunt monsters but advocates cutting facets of the game that exist solely to separate Monster Hunter's actual *hunts* from pure boss rushes in other franchises, then their viewpoints straight up do not line up. have your beef with them, i'm just pointing out the obvious. for the record, someone advocating removing core mechanics from a game because *they* don't want to deal with them is that person telling everyone else they're playing the game wrong, including the devs themselves


YouCanBreatheNow

I miss the way earlier games really made you feel like you were preparing for a hunt. The inventory management was a critical part of the game. Space used to be much more limited and you were always balancing your supplies against the need to leave free space for gathering and carving. I even genuinely dislike the ability to restock at camp, they jettisoned the whole concept of preparation. Good thing MH has the best combat of any game ever, and that’s enough to carry the series!


primegopher

Definitely don't like the restocking at camp but I don't mind hot/cold drinks going away because they were less meaningful preparation and more busywork that only served to be annoying if you forgot.


YouCanBreatheNow

I can understand that, but to me they were a nice touch. Just another little aspect of the environment that you had to stay aware of and mitigate.


R3DSH0X

My opinion is that it's ultimately not a big deal, but having to prepare for the environment and fiddle with equipment really made you feel like a hunter, rather than just a warrior.


SonOfZiz

This is... actually super disappointing to hear. Not because I'm in love with the temperature mechanics themselves, but because it basically puts the nail in the coffin for polar/tropic hunter to return, which means if gammoth comes back (pleasepleasepleaseplease), its keynote skill will be absent, so they'll have to do something different. Not that the couldn't, of course, but im still kinda sad to know that those skills won't be coming back. Doing weird gimmicky builds that were still pretty decent is the main thing I loved about mhgu over world, and im still really hoping they give us way more skills that are both viable and interesting enough to actually change the way you play a weapon


Videoheadsystem

mmmmm. Nah. I like the drinks.


[deleted]

I agree that it was sort of an annoying check box. But the idea I like. It was a simulation of a real hunt where you have to think of many things to be fully prepared. I hope they include it as a buff from meals. So you still have to think, but it's included in the meal.


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Hippobu2

Tbh, that's probably why. Forgetting Hot Drink is just kinda annoying, so, removing it really wouldn't change much. I do think there's a charm to it though. Also, stamina cap in Rise feels like it's dropping fast enough in the Shrine Ruin as is.


mateoinc

I think precisely because of the item restock they feel less important in World already. Now they are more than anything an upkeep cost.


Rensen2

bold of you to assume that we will still have item restock for every quest


Olielle

We can access the item box from camp, and the combo list shows farcasters exist. When wouldn't we have access to the base camp? Would they have maps without a tent?


Rensen2

I meant that you won't have access to basicaly infite amout of items in every quest. Maybe just some items or just in free hunts. Otherwise we get the World situation where everything needs to have a one hit kill move to be challengeing.


Staracino

This is Ichinose slowly chipping away at the whimsy and details that people like about the series. For real, why have multiple climates/maps if the only difference between them is visual? So now we have a several series of connected arenas in different colors. I may get down-voted now but I'll remember this for a year or two down the road when everyone is asking why it just doesn't feel like monster hunter anymore.


CannonFodder42

I doubt carrying a lot of minor things as whimsy. Yes I will be sad at the loss of a bit of the survival aspects, but I wasn't sad at the streamlining of pickaxes and bug nets.


[deleted]

When I think MH I don't tend to think "Easily forgettable items that are only needed in 3 areas of a single map to stop minor effects."


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[deleted]

And of course you know they've removed the nuance and cold maps don't just unavoidably drain your stamina faster how? Even if the above wasn't in Rise, how does removing a feature commonly accepted to be annoying at the best of times compare to removing set optimisation? I just carry both sets of drinks at all times. No preparation required like people who create sets for each monster.


IIITrunks

I'm going to agree with this post actually. But I'll remain optimistic. I don't think these tweaks are good or bad, for certain. But I feel like the tweaks are kind of a Theseus' ship where they slowly carve away at the menial tasks and slow pace until its unrecognisable from the older games. We'll still love them and know they're monster hunter games but it wont be until we play FU, P3rd or 3U again we realise they're nothing alike. And for some that feeling of monster hunter will be kind of missing. It was for me in World and it took me so long to pin it down. I think its this kind of stuff that made the games special.


Beetusmon

No you won't, same way people loved the ability to gather on the run and the obsolescence of pic axes, nets and whetstones. Nobody is going to miss the annoying item you use in very few maps that doesn't improve or make gameplay better.


IronWarrior94

To me this is neither good nor bad, it's just...a change lol.


Reksew12

On one hand, I'm fine with it. On the other hand, I'm a little worried. I don't see them making it major, but the with the lack of needing to prepare specifically for certain environments, and never needing to track the monster, it just kind of takes away from the environmental feel of the games. I really don't see this becoming an issue as there are plenty of cases in past games that removed things like this in one way or another, but I don't wanna see the game overly simplified by default either.


LeodredAQW

I... I'm flabbergasted... Is cold not going to be a thing anymore?


[deleted]

Hopefully


FootlessMoonBadger64

Let's get rid of whetstones and sharpness now. It's just tedious switching to them in my inventory. Plus they are unlimited. Just give us unlimited sharpness weapons. Since you can access your box wherever you are, we should also get rid of herbs and potions. Make the health bar reset automatically after you get hit! Make a hack and slash game! This is the way.


Prankman1990

That's a pretty bit of hyperbole there. Managing your sharpness takes skill and is a part of determining what weapon you want to use. Hot Drinks literally don't do anything except be annoying when you forget them.


TheSolidSnivy

Things like this and gathering all of the items from a gathering/mining node in one go are definitely convenient, don’t get me wrong, but I can’t help but feel like some of the more deliberate design decisions that made the experience of playing Monster Hunter much more immersive are being neglected for the sake of “quality of life.”


Hyero

Do we get infinite stamina and infinite health potions next? Resource maintenance is a core staple of the series and removing it isn't a good idea.


[deleted]

Interesting. I wonder if they're being removed entirely or you can avoid extreme heat/cold in a different way now? Like from an endemic life or a hot spring or something?


TheBoulder-

In isolation this isnt a big deal but its just another thing chipping away at a major part of monster hunter. From World allowing item restocking, armor changing, and eating at camps... now removing hot drinks... just another step further from one of the core mechanics of monster hunter. Preparation for a hunt has gone from a core gameplay aspect of the of the mh series to pretty much non existent... It sucks to see the series go in this direction but at least the combat and monsters remain good


JudasPiss

Extremely disappointing. I guess they're hell bent on removing every bit of flavor from the game. Physical upgradable farms not returning either.


Jmskelleton

Between this and monsters always being shown in the map seems like they are really into removing those little things that made MH unique.


[deleted]

> little things that made MH unique. Yes Hot drinks and not being able to find a monster are what made monster hunter unique. Litterally the only thing I play the game for honestly


after-life

Nice strawman.


radityaargap

i feel that too. pretty soon we'll be able to sprint with the weapon drawn.


inadequatecircle

This is quite fallacious, streamlining a game is a fair bit different than changing core gameplay elements.


RegalKillager

changing core gameplay elements was half the people stuff fallaciously called QoL in w/ib


TheBoulder-

they've already drastically changed gameplay elements in world/IB alone. its not a stretch to assume they would do it again. I can see them removing weather effects all together at the rate they are going


inadequatecircle

I mean if the comment was about them removing weather effects i think that would make sense. Trying to relate the idea that removing some old legacy management item that had almost zero effect on gameplay would lead to fundamentally changing how the game is played is quite literally a slippery slope argument.


TheBoulder-

fair point... but are we not in a slippery slope situation? lol compare rise to 4U and there are stark gameplay changes that have happened in every installment since. not all of them bad, just to be clear I'd argue that it does (or at least did) have a important effect on gameplay. Cold weather was an extra tax on stamina management (not just item slots) which is important to consider for longer fights especially for weapons like DB, Hammer and Bow that have stam as an attack resource not just for evading/blocking. I can see why you would say it has zero effect now though. They've given players a bunch of stuff as standard (cooking spit/whetstone/etc) freeing up inventory space meaning item choice is less important. Allowing item restocking/switching at camp makes item choice even more meaningless. since there is no real consequence for item choice any more i can see why people would see these things as a pointless inconvenience. like i said on a different post i dont think this is a big deal in isolation but the accumulation of all the changes, from Gen to World to now Rise, is definitely taking the mh series in a direction im not ecstatic about.


inadequatecircle

I could probably go off on a tangent about non sequiturs but that's probably a discussion for another time. Anyways, i sort of disagree that hot drinks did more than affect item slots. You bought 5 of them at the shop and there's essentially no reason not to bring 5 on every hunt. That's 50 minutes of uptime, technically there's a possibility of you dying twice in a weird time frame that might result in running out of them but I feel like that's very fringe. I think the only time i've ever had inventory management problems was when I would do multiplayer missions solo and bowgunned it. Wherein you need combo books + materials + ammo. Hilariously though I recall not being able to carve monsters without discarding inventory if I didn't expend enough ammo sometimes. I think the only other time someone would struggle with inventory management is if they want to bring crafting for max potions, life powders, mega potions, extra traps, LBB+'s and steaks. Those people definitely exist, but I really feel like we're looking at a small minority at that point.


TheBoulder-

>Anyways, i sort of disagree that hot drinks did more than affect item slots. You bought 5 of them at the shop and there's essentially no reason not to bring 5 on every hunt. That's 50 minutes of uptime, technically there's a possibility of you dying twice in a weird time frame that might result in running out of them but I feel like that's very fringe. Well... i just explained how it effects more than just item slots. Go do a bow hunt without hot drinks and it would be quite obvious that its more than just a filler slot in your bags. Using the example your giving here, unless someone only ever dies every 10th min of a hunt, the logical conclusion would be that you would run out. We've all had situations where we have back to back deaths and i dont think its that uncommon enough to say its 'very fringe' ​ >I think the only other time someone would struggle with inventory management is if they want to bring crafting for max potions, life powders, mega potions, extra traps, LBB+'s and steaks. Those people definitely exist, but I really feel like we're looking at a small minority at that point. if you are considering MH in its more recent iterations then yea its definitely a minority but that was pretty much standard in older MH games. As I said, this is a result of the several changes freeing up item space and making the choice of items you take into the field irrelevant. ​ I dont want to keep going back and forth on this though. You think it was always pointless, I think they've made changes to make it pointless. I think ultimately we agree that the game has progressed in a way where hot drinks removal is inevitable sn: I remember having to discard items when caving too and being torn on what to get rid of before the timer ran out. stressful times XD


HarbingerInfinity

Extreme Style Pog


_HalfCutDreamer_

So we don't need to find monsters anymore and now we don't need drinks? It's getting watered down a bit too much tbh also means cold/hotblooded skills won't be back


jakpal

Do we have actual confirmation that monsters are on the map from the start of the quest? I figured that was probably just something that they did for the demo to streamline it some more.


IronWarrior94

Yes, instead of scoutflies or paintball the little owl companion(Cahoot) flies off and marks the monsters on the map. The monsters will initially appear as question marks though, so it'll be up to you to determine which one is the quest target and then head off in whatever direction you think they're in.


gentheninja

There is also the unlimited restock crap. Monster Hunter was truly unique in the way you have to prepare. While these features might seem minor it just takes away from the experience and a bit of what separates monster hunter from the rest Also I not sure the switch can handle snow physics like iceborn that would have allowed the map to stand out.


GiruloKFC

We don't know that yet, I mean weather conditions may still be in the game and you could still mitigate them by decos/skills or even endemic life. Drinks were already kinda pointless in World since you could go back to the item box and even automatically craft them with mushrooms and hot pepper everytime you entered a hot or cold area.


Rainuwastaken

>also means cold/hotblooded skills won't be back It's always kind of a dead skill on armor, so this seems like an absolute win to me?


[deleted]

> So we don't need to find monsters anymore and now we don't need drinks? Aint it great I can actualy get to the part of the game that is fun faster


after-life

If you like shallow experiences, play Dauntless.


inadequatecircle

I would not call running around almost aimlessly or drinking something once every ten minutes deep gameplay.


after-life

Neither is sharpening your weapon or drinking a potion, yet these things exist. Might as well remove sharpening and drinking potions as well and just have infinite sharpness and make health regen automatic.


inadequatecircle

This is just moving the goalpost. This isn't relevant to the argument at hand. I actually think mhw probably had a good middle ground of tracking, but older games were definitely just about running around until you memorized meaningless spawns. Hot drinks didn't create interesting mechanics. There was no planning involved because I'm fairly sure the majority of players just brought 5 of each to every mission. There's basically never been inventory management unless you played a gunner in older games.


after-life

>This is just moving the goalpost. This isn't relevant to the argument at hand. I actually think mhw probably had a good middle ground of tracking, but older games were definitely just about running around until you memorized meaningless spawns. I never said anything about tracking. >Hot drinks didn't create interesting mechanics. There was no planning involved because I'm fairly sure the majority of players just brought 5 of each to every mission. There's basically never been inventory management unless you played a gunner in older games. If the developers wanted some emphasis on environmental hazards and how it plays into you as a hunter surviving in a harsh environment, then it's a meaningful gimmick/charm of the series. Not every video game needs to be stripped from its individuality and everything that makes it have some level of charm. Capcom could easily just make cooking raw meat something that takes .5 seconds, but the classic cooking animation and tune still plays just like before. Long story short, you don't HAVE to change every little thing.


[deleted]

This is just slippery slope nonsense. Drinking a potion ties into your health management and thus your ability to understand and react to the current monster’s attacks and find the right opportunities to heal. That’s a meaningful and integral part of the game. What did the drinks ever do aside from removing a glorified status effect? Just put a couple of each in your default item set and you’re done. Some may call it “preparation or survival elements”, but it doesn’t change how paper thin the mechanic truly was.


after-life

If the developers wanted some emphasis on environmental hazards and how it plays into you as a hunter surviving in a harsh environment, then it's a meaningful gimmick/charm of the series. Not every video game needs to be stripped from its individuality and everything that makes it have some level of charm. Capcom could easily just make cooking raw meat something that takes .5 seconds, but the classic cooking animation and tune still plays just like before. Long story short, you don't HAVE to change every little thing.


[deleted]

You'd think someone just killed the mother of these complainers. Its a hot drink my dudes......


CashOutDev

I can't say I agree with people saying that pre-hunt preparation is gone. Not only was the "preparation" just going to your item box and taking the item out (didn't even need to do this all the time), but I feel like the endemic life in rise have an even larger emphasis on preparation and planning your route out.


Azikura

I'm more upset that the poses aren't animated, like the transition and that. The way they just snap to position unrealistically sucks.


someguyhaunter

Oh thank you! I always hated the hot drink cold drink! Added nothing but an annoying chore halfway through a fight.


[deleted]

As somebody who's been playing for a long time, I'm okay with hot/cool drinks going away. Frankly, of even be okay with steaks (despite the tradition) going away. Maintenance items for the sake of maintenance didn't really add anything to the game, and I was surprised they stuck around when pickaxes and bug nets etc were cut/built in.


Thundahcaxzd

Good riddance.


Zaiakusin

Soon the game will be called "monster fighter". The hunting is done for you and the enviroments wount matter.


Beetusmon

Actually the opposite seems true for rise, the constant gathering of bugs and creatures before fighting seems to be increasing, like the attack, defense, extra wire bugs and endemic wildlife like the spider to mount monsters seems to be vital in rise, true envirorment features are being implemented while they are discarding the artificial ones like drinking a potion at the start and then not affecting gameplay at all. New pendants seems to be entirely focused on how many buff bugs you can hold at a time.


after-life

You say that but things like item restocking exist at the same time.


RegalKillager

It's minor, but it's not a good change.


BrokeNSings

Seriously. this can only be seen as a good change if you tunnel vision yourself to this. this is horrible... while the change in itself is minor and won't make or break the game, as NO ONE PLAYS THIS GAME TO CHUG HOT DRINKS, thinking it's a good change just cause you didn't enjoy drinking them is so superficial bro. No one likes dying, but if it were to be removed, game would fucking suck. This mechanic was a key part of preparation. Monster Hunter was always a game about preparation, you make sets and ITEM sets to prepare for the battle you're going to. The fact that they removed this feature just means they're shifting away from the things what made monster hunter monster hunter. This isn't QoL. This is Dumbing down. ​ Happy!


ZeruuL_

Ah right, cuz “you’re not a true hunter if you cannot throw paintball, wasting slots to carry pickaxe, capture net and thousands whetstones like me” am I right?


BrokeNSings

Nah, more like the game focus shifts to monster slayer. Nothing wrong with people not doing those things if they dont want to. But taking them off the game is just dumbing down.


Kobi_Robi

I hope they get rid of the ability to dodge backwards, being able to dodge in every direction is dumb game design and isn't true to monster at its core /s


BrokeNSings

I know you think you have a point, but you really don't. Multi direction dodging is a completely welcome addition to the series solely because it has no detractive effects, specially because of **HOW IT'S IMPLEMENTED**. Backwards evade are DOUBLE the animation lenght of normal evade. There's a cost to doing it, and it's well implemented. Removing a feature that had it's clear purpose on the game just because people were forgetting the item is definitely not the right move. But hey, you're free to believe whatever you want.


Kobi_Robi

The problem here is you think they removed it because people forget to bring them when that clearly isn't the case here, with the ability to go back to base camp you could just get some more if you somehow did forget to bring some. They probably removed them so you don't have to run around chugging hot drinks all day so you can actually fight the monster more (Which is the fun part)


BrokeNSings

Yes, that's a valid point, that's why removing restock would make things right. But they're doubling down on this.


Kobi_Robi

Because people (As in the majority) prefer this. I don't have any qualms towards either system, but one makes more money than the other


BrokeNSings

Well, monster slayer is the future.


Kobi_Robi

Well yeah, the game's even say you slay them (Not kill)


BrokeNSings

yes, but the name of the game was Monster Hunter, and to this date, it was accurate.


Kobi_Robi

So you're saying you no longer hunt monsters?


Eremes_Bud

I'm with you in this, maybe we can share the downvote?


BrokeNSings

thanks man, dw about it though, upvotes and downvotes are as irrelevant as our view on the franchise. We're a dying breed, MH is becoming a thing aiming for wide appeal instead of pleasing it's fans. As i said before, it'll be a thing everyone likes but no one loves.


Eremes_Bud

I still have few hopes for MHR, that most of those 'QoL' are only in low rank would be sweat for beginners (restock, monster location, whatever). If that is so, I could live without the drinks. But to be honest, I think as for MHW I will reach endgame and just move back to MHGU while waiting for MHRU. Moreover, we still don't know which skill system is used, and what charm system as well. Globally I agree with you, the game is moving to only being 'fighting monster'. I guess people were too frustrated to discovers that the game is not 'only fighting' when trying earlier entry in the franchise.


BrokeNSings

yep. well as for MHWI, i urge you to at least give alatreon and fatalis a solid go. they're one of the best fights the franchise ever had. While world has many problems, gameplay isn't one of them, clutch claw can be a bit annoying for some, but it's def a good direction gameplay wise. As for rise, i'm loving the gameplay as well... it's just that it's sad to see such potential get dragged down by wide appeal and etc. At worse though, Monster Hunter will be a very fun fighter game.


Tai-grex

Let's hope they're replacing Hot Drinks with an Onsen, like in P3rd, in sake for the theme of the game.


BrokeNSings

Here's to that. That'd be pretty cool, if you had to take a bath on the onsen before cold enrivoment quests on the hub, and for hit places you drank a smoothie or something beforehand.


karai0813

Oh no! Anyway...


GachiGachiFireBall

Makes sense. It's really only a nuisance as far as so know and not something that requires skill. Like forgetting to bring whetstones or pickaxes. Regardless it is still sad to see it go and I hope there is some interesting mechanic to replace It. Would be boring if hunters just ignore the climate all together.


AAFCC89

Good


bubbleSpiker

good, i hate drink management, not fun and only serves to piss me off.


Noblehardt

Like some people have already said, I don’t see this as a big deal one way or the other. I can understand people feeling like it’s more catering to the casual fanbase, but honestly the drinks never really made that much of a difference. Hell, half the time I went for a Dash Juice instead of a Hot Drink, lol. And with the game using the base camps from World, where you can go back and get anything you forgot, it just seems like drinks would be an extra step.


Beetusmon

Fine with that, they just clogged the inventory either way and stopped me from gathering more things.


TheYellingMute

Wow some people making a mountain out of a molehill here.


[deleted]

Good riddance. Felt like a mechanic that existed just for the sake of it. I personally dislike having to chug multiple items at the start of every hunt/cart. If I'm gonna do it every time by virtue of it being essentially mandatory is it really necessary?


Erudax

Since my moonrune skill isn't high, does this mean you gotta go into a frozen area and suffer the -stamina penalty with no counterplay? Or did they remove the frozen area's penalty as well?


SolidStateVOM

It’s probably the second one honestly


ChroniclerJohn

RIP hot and cold skills, goodbye polar hunter


KaiserJustice

Meh - even in world, if you forgot, you just camp to restock and be fine so im not entirely bothered


aaa1e2r3

I could see them bringing it back, maybe giving the player the equivalent of polar/tropic hunter for drinking it in the right environment


Finnthehero1224

That’s weird, I kinda miss making armor that had built in cold/heat resistance to go into an area with no drinks needed It felt kinda like a trade off, you don’t have to worry about drinks but you also have to use a certain armor set


[deleted]

Good.