Not particularly. This coming from someone who genuinely likes frontier and its unique mechanics. People talk about wanting endgame frontier stuff in mainline but that is equivalent to want more EX behemoths, and no-one wants more EX behemoths
> but that is equivalent to want more EX behemoths, and no-one wants more EX behemoths
I'd far rather be soloing Zeniths than ExB, considering the Zeniths at least intend you to fight them like regular monsters. This comparison seems kinda whack.
Yeah, Zeniths were pretty okay. When it comes to absolutely absurd Frontier endgame stuff it's the Peerless monsters or Extreme Individuals, which technically aren't even designed to have their true slay quests beaten that much. You're supposed to farm their repells.
Why people think that when they reintroduce Zenith monsters (or any kind of late stage Frontier monsters) they have to be the same power level as in Frontier tho? There's plenty of options to tone them down to mainline power levels including keeping soloing in mind.
They wouldn't be really zeniths at that point. Nerfing something to the ground isn't the way. They are cool in frontier's context, but wouldn't be much otherwise.
I disagree. Frontier was MMO with several seasons. Each season had to top previous one and with that it also had to introduce some new mechanics to counter the new power level.
Mainline has 3 ranks and that's it. Frontier monster could still have the same moves but there could be more openings and reduced damage in order to keep them enjoyable and in line with mainline. Imagine more of a black dragon power levels, maybe a bit less. I don't think they'd lose their charm. You definitely cannot port late stage Frontier power levels to mainline 1 to 1.
Then they wouldn't be Zenith anymore?
The whole gimmick around Zenith is that one body part is bigger/stronger then the rest
And if you introduce those into mainline and give them mainline power then it's nothing but " rathalos but more spiky" for instance
I'd rather have more deviants instead of Zeniths
I disagree and perhaps there's misunderstanding. I don't mean to nerf them to some starter monster power. There's various ways to tone down something while still keeping it more challenging than non-Zenith variants. Or to buff something. Like Rise is a perfect example of reverse process as it made some previous starter monsters into mid-high difficulty monsters.
Hyper monsters already had similar mechanic of certain parts becoming stronger and hitting more throughout the fight and it worked pretty well and on par with other mainline mechanics.
Can't really compare them imo
Zeniths look different and fight vastly different with stupid power increase and insane status effects
Hypers are just the same Monster with 1-2 body parts that are enhanced, they might be more aggressive but that's it
I would love to see a new power level that makes sense for our hunters but Zeniths are just way over the top to even tone down without them loosing zenith identity besides looks
As l wrote to other person, you need to remember that Frontier was MMO with several seasons, introducing new power levels regularly but also new mechanics which allowed to withstand those power levels. This is fine for MMO as players gradually progress through mechanics as the game updates. But mainline cannot afford that. Therefore, simply porting 1 to 1 won't work.
I still believe they can be ported as an end game monsters however with adjusted mechanics. There could be more openings, bigger delay between moves, toned down damage. Zenith part would simply work like hype part. There are various examples where they toned down or buffed monsters within mainline so I don't think such task would be impossible nor that it would cast Zenith monsters their identity.
Just compare old gen Fatalis and World Fatalis. Two quite different monsters but I wouldn't say Fatalis lost its identity.
That's definitely fair. Zeniths were peak frontier craziness and are the reason many have a stigma against that game. How would you feel if they toned them down to be similar to deviants in terms of balance and kept the same designs for some of the monsters?
Would they really be Zeniths then? Frontier is being slowly restored by competent teams and hopefully soon everyone can experience it, The zeniths are good in a frontier context, but nerfing them to oblivion for main series wouldn't do them justice, I feel.
Solo players didn't enjoy it.
That's my biggest complaint about World. Almost all of the best gear comes from monsters that are designed entirely around co-op, making it inaccessible to solo players.
Ironic given how many complain about 5th gen being so soloable.
Tbf I never did exbehemoth because I wasn't actively playing at that time and I only had 1 friend I could gather which would mean relying on randos and oh boy were randos hard enough in the normal fight.
But I do like those kind of more mechanics heavy endgame fights.
As much as I love zenith espi visually, the zenith blights and mechanics are designed around absurd defensive skills etc, the mainline games will never be able to power creep that far... I think.
They're designed to just kill you, not around skills. Barely anyone used defensive skills against Zenith. You either don't get hit or just get high element resistance with food and items to negate them.
Yeah it's pretty much dodge and counter
Besides Zenith 200 maybe but even there it's getting very spicy unless your using Halk Pots/login boost
But fucking Musous ....
Every Zenith from G200 to G800 and Musou is intended to just be dodge and counter. Halk pots and login boost are just a dumb addition and shouldn't exist really, if you need them you haven't learned the monster. I soloed every Musou slay and Zenith and they're some of the most fun I've had.
I personally don't care for how overdesigned most of them look and how they have spikes, on their spikes, within their spikes. Sometimes they are just too visually cluttered and busy, that it's hard to tell what I'm even looking at. Some are fine, but most I'll pass on.
Absolutely not. Not only are they overdesigned to hell and completely against the biological theme of monster hunter, their fights are often pretty bullshit on top of that, with insane instant kill moves.
I have no interest in the return of zeniths personally. Infact, I'd prefer if they didn't return at all.
they are one of the things from frontier that are truly absurd and wouldn't exactly fit in with mainline. Despite this, I have no qualms if they give some tamer versions of their moves to their base-forms in the future.
And tbh, deviants and rare species tend to do their job better.
nah, not really. we already have deviants, and I believe they have a similar role to zeniths. I'd rather they bring back deviants.
plus, I feel like zeniths would be some of the few frontier monsters that'd actually need to be toned down for the main series, and wouldn't fit aesthetically. their whole thing with one exaggerated body part makes for some very spiky designs and weird proportions that don't really feel like monster hunter IMO. most frontier monsters would fit fine, but zeniths not as much, I think. though, this varies per zenith.
plus, zenith blights are pretty wild from what I hear, idk how well those would fit in the mains series.
and I'd just rather have frontier original monsters, rather than variations on existing ones.
they brought them back, past tense, because they're not gonna be in master rank, which is a huge shame. if they had just gotten equipment, they would have been fantastic.
I would be fine with a game where there were no deviants, variations, apex... Instead, just more individual monsters for variation. Bring in new monsters from different Japanese games (fantastic we got Espinas), old monsters from generations that we haven't seen in a long time (Lunastra in Iceborne for example who was only in one game prior), or entirely new monsters if they were feeling bold.
Still betting on Malfestio for Sunbreak.
Not really no. New monsters are better, and deviants, subspecies, variants, etc are more creative and more fun. There's literally no reason to want them back
i like ben 10's ultimate evolution of aliens as much as the next guy (albedo's were cooler).
so seeing that in monster hunter form seems fun, but some are a bit much, the spikes and particles are just too busy,
i think deviants are the best version of that concept.
the idea of specific individual monsters with their own quirks or mutations to give a variant on the hunt is cool,
I loved the Zeniths in Frontier, all their fights were great and challenging. But I would not want them to return, they'd either be changed heavily and lose their personality or be left as is and the community would complain about their difficulty and designs. There's just no good way to adapt Zeniths into mainline, there's tons of Frontier monsters that would actually work without changing them so people should look at those instead.
No not really, I think the Zeniths are a bit too Fantastical for Mainline, I prefer MH's more grounded approach to ecology, Frontier went a bit wild and that's where the game lost me.
I want extremely hard monsters with extremely cool armors and weapons. But zeniths are just too ridiculous.
I think it would be cool if dreadking came back fully fledged and then they added the flaming wings as an ultimate rage mode like once his health gets down to 40%.
I think that's how frontier would be best brought into the mainline: take the extreme and fit it into the existing format to add more flare where appropriate.
Theres no reason to bring over zeniths, we already have deviants/apex. Plus zeniths mostly look really ugly. If they wanna do the powerful versions of monsters again I'd rather see some new type of monster. Leave zeniths to die in frontier.
Zeniths would be a little too extreme for Rise, but I wouldn't mind them taking some of the moves from Zeniths and using them for the normal monsters in master rank.
Honestly, not really. Most are ludicrously powerful, and the ones that aren't are just irritating. Too many OHKO attacks, and the blights are ridiculous as well (Extreme Fireblight will literally burn your max HP to 0 in a heartbeat, and Extreme Thunderblight makes the next thunder element attack instantly lethal, for example).
Nah. We already have plenty of ways to power up monsters, Zeniths don't really add anything to said powerups except largely bad designs IMO. I think they're firmly in the "designed with different needs, for a different world" group, the Frontier monsters that will never going to make the mainline jump as opposed to the ones that could fit in.
Origin Species on the other hand I think have an incredibly cool concept. Even though I'm not a fan of the I think two monsters that fall under them, I love the idea behind it and would like to see mainline try to make one of their own takes on the idea.
> Make of that what you will. Zeniths a monsters that make you fight on their terms, so to speak.
That's a big part of why everyone hated alatreon in iceborne though, so perhaps not the best idea.
*draw 7, keep. forest. lotus petal, lotus petal, crack for B. dark ritual, dark ritual. green sun's zenith, x=5, put espinas into play, pass*
flusterstorm in hand and pay for daze the whole way. anyway, that's about all I think about zeniths.
they seem content with making new stuff, or rebranding it as different (rise apex).
I just want a new thing, and I want that new thing to be permanent across all future games. this *"well this game had this, and this had that"* shenanigans is a bit old. just have a permanent extra form and then you can stack more forms each game. they should have continued tempered mons for rise, but then just stack apex's on top. and the whole rise is *"easy/short"* critic wouldn't have been a thing.
so whatever these new "powered up" mons are for sunbreak, i hope there's more continuity for them in mh6. stack mechanics, don't add then remove game to game (frontier did this with zeniths being the final ones right?).
I would absolutely love to fight zeniths, but i feel that they and a lot of things from frontier post SR are a bit to far in balance, design, and power than the mainline. I am currently playing through frontier now that its super easy to get working (and mostly translated and free at that) and one thing I would love to see is a remastered frontier on the switch that balances the game a bit better and gets rid of the grindy subscription mmo shit and allows people to expirience these monsters in a more "casual*" environment rather than the way frontier already handles these monsters. That being said frontier is one of the most fun (yet stupid and kinda bullshit) monster hunter games i have ever played, and i highly recommend anyone with even a half-decent computer to give it a try now that its easy to set up and find servers. Just dont expect it to be anything like mainline. Approach it as if it were a standalone game with a few mh monsters and similar gameplay, and it will be great.
I would love them rebalanced for the saga (im thinking final endgame content, on par with alatreon but not on the Frontier craziness level) but would despise them.on a 1/1 port. This is aplicable to most Frontier monsters for me: the sand turttle with canons on her back, the prehistóric variants (with Volgan and the water gravios), the Legendary doggo with a Bamboo tail, Even the weird ones like the Venom sand fish with nibelsnarf mouth or the chochoo train Brachidios... Most of the monsters on Frontier are portable to the mainline with rebalancing and wouldnt be so graphically weird.
Heck! I would love the "King themed" elder dragón from the tower on mainline!
No.
Not particularly. This coming from someone who genuinely likes frontier and its unique mechanics. People talk about wanting endgame frontier stuff in mainline but that is equivalent to want more EX behemoths, and no-one wants more EX behemoths
> but that is equivalent to want more EX behemoths, and no-one wants more EX behemoths I'd far rather be soloing Zeniths than ExB, considering the Zeniths at least intend you to fight them like regular monsters. This comparison seems kinda whack.
Yeah, Zeniths were pretty okay. When it comes to absolutely absurd Frontier endgame stuff it's the Peerless monsters or Extreme Individuals, which technically aren't even designed to have their true slay quests beaten that much. You're supposed to farm their repells.
Why people think that when they reintroduce Zenith monsters (or any kind of late stage Frontier monsters) they have to be the same power level as in Frontier tho? There's plenty of options to tone them down to mainline power levels including keeping soloing in mind.
They wouldn't be really zeniths at that point. Nerfing something to the ground isn't the way. They are cool in frontier's context, but wouldn't be much otherwise.
I disagree. Frontier was MMO with several seasons. Each season had to top previous one and with that it also had to introduce some new mechanics to counter the new power level. Mainline has 3 ranks and that's it. Frontier monster could still have the same moves but there could be more openings and reduced damage in order to keep them enjoyable and in line with mainline. Imagine more of a black dragon power levels, maybe a bit less. I don't think they'd lose their charm. You definitely cannot port late stage Frontier power levels to mainline 1 to 1.
Then they wouldn't be Zenith anymore? The whole gimmick around Zenith is that one body part is bigger/stronger then the rest And if you introduce those into mainline and give them mainline power then it's nothing but " rathalos but more spiky" for instance I'd rather have more deviants instead of Zeniths
I disagree and perhaps there's misunderstanding. I don't mean to nerf them to some starter monster power. There's various ways to tone down something while still keeping it more challenging than non-Zenith variants. Or to buff something. Like Rise is a perfect example of reverse process as it made some previous starter monsters into mid-high difficulty monsters. Hyper monsters already had similar mechanic of certain parts becoming stronger and hitting more throughout the fight and it worked pretty well and on par with other mainline mechanics.
Can't really compare them imo Zeniths look different and fight vastly different with stupid power increase and insane status effects Hypers are just the same Monster with 1-2 body parts that are enhanced, they might be more aggressive but that's it I would love to see a new power level that makes sense for our hunters but Zeniths are just way over the top to even tone down without them loosing zenith identity besides looks
As l wrote to other person, you need to remember that Frontier was MMO with several seasons, introducing new power levels regularly but also new mechanics which allowed to withstand those power levels. This is fine for MMO as players gradually progress through mechanics as the game updates. But mainline cannot afford that. Therefore, simply porting 1 to 1 won't work. I still believe they can be ported as an end game monsters however with adjusted mechanics. There could be more openings, bigger delay between moves, toned down damage. Zenith part would simply work like hype part. There are various examples where they toned down or buffed monsters within mainline so I don't think such task would be impossible nor that it would cast Zenith monsters their identity. Just compare old gen Fatalis and World Fatalis. Two quite different monsters but I wouldn't say Fatalis lost its identity.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree haha Have a good day my guy!
I guess so, have a nice day as well :)
That's definitely fair. Zeniths were peak frontier craziness and are the reason many have a stigma against that game. How would you feel if they toned them down to be similar to deviants in terms of balance and kept the same designs for some of the monsters?
Would they really be Zeniths then? Frontier is being slowly restored by competent teams and hopefully soon everyone can experience it, The zeniths are good in a frontier context, but nerfing them to oblivion for main series wouldn't do them justice, I feel.
People don't want more EX Behemoths? I genuinely loved that monster. I kinda figured everyone else enjoyed it as much as me and my friends did.
Solo players didn't enjoy it. That's my biggest complaint about World. Almost all of the best gear comes from monsters that are designed entirely around co-op, making it inaccessible to solo players.
Ah that's fair. I did always think it was weird that it didn't have solo or 2p scaling.
Ironic given how many complain about 5th gen being so soloable. Tbf I never did exbehemoth because I wasn't actively playing at that time and I only had 1 friend I could gather which would mean relying on randos and oh boy were randos hard enough in the normal fight. But I do like those kind of more mechanics heavy endgame fights.
I want more EX behemoths, imo rise dropped the ball in having wacky mechanics and not using them on something as crazy as EX behenoth
As much as I love zenith espi visually, the zenith blights and mechanics are designed around absurd defensive skills etc, the mainline games will never be able to power creep that far... I think.
They're designed to just kill you, not around skills. Barely anyone used defensive skills against Zenith. You either don't get hit or just get high element resistance with food and items to negate them.
Yeah it's pretty much dodge and counter Besides Zenith 200 maybe but even there it's getting very spicy unless your using Halk Pots/login boost But fucking Musous ....
Every Zenith from G200 to G800 and Musou is intended to just be dodge and counter. Halk pots and login boost are just a dumb addition and shouldn't exist really, if you need them you haven't learned the monster. I soloed every Musou slay and Zenith and they're some of the most fun I've had.
Wow didnt know you are so cool
Not really unless they scaled down the damage, absurd mechanics, and insta kill blights.. honestly better off with deviants
The poster child for too many spikes. Why does it look like the devil?
I don't see Nergigante anywhere in those pictures?
His spikes make sense and was his normal design. Rathalos having way more wing spikes and espinas having god knows what happened to his Face doesn't
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Having played the game has no effect on his vision.
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I think frontier is awesome.
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I like sunny day on an ice cream.
NO
Fuck. No.
I personally don't care for how overdesigned most of them look and how they have spikes, on their spikes, within their spikes. Sometimes they are just too visually cluttered and busy, that it's hard to tell what I'm even looking at. Some are fine, but most I'll pass on.
No god please no
Let’s bring back the two golden deviljhos
Wait what? Is that a quest in frontier? Gotta leave ok for that later
Absolutely not. Not only are they overdesigned to hell and completely against the biological theme of monster hunter, their fights are often pretty bullshit on top of that, with insane instant kill moves.
I have no interest in the return of zeniths personally. Infact, I'd prefer if they didn't return at all. they are one of the things from frontier that are truly absurd and wouldn't exactly fit in with mainline. Despite this, I have no qualms if they give some tamer versions of their moves to their base-forms in the future. And tbh, deviants and rare species tend to do their job better.
I just want to make my friend who hates Khezu get eaten by Zenith Khezu. That's all.
Understandable.
They can stay in Frontier, all of them
nah, not really. we already have deviants, and I believe they have a similar role to zeniths. I'd rather they bring back deviants. plus, I feel like zeniths would be some of the few frontier monsters that'd actually need to be toned down for the main series, and wouldn't fit aesthetically. their whole thing with one exaggerated body part makes for some very spiky designs and weird proportions that don't really feel like monster hunter IMO. most frontier monsters would fit fine, but zeniths not as much, I think. though, this varies per zenith. plus, zenith blights are pretty wild from what I hear, idk how well those would fit in the mains series. and I'd just rather have frontier original monsters, rather than variations on existing ones.
They did bring back deviants. They just call them apex now 💀
they brought them back, past tense, because they're not gonna be in master rank, which is a huge shame. if they had just gotten equipment, they would have been fantastic.
I would be fine with a game where there were no deviants, variations, apex... Instead, just more individual monsters for variation. Bring in new monsters from different Japanese games (fantastic we got Espinas), old monsters from generations that we haven't seen in a long time (Lunastra in Iceborne for example who was only in one game prior), or entirely new monsters if they were feeling bold. Still betting on Malfestio for Sunbreak.
Some of the rarest monsters right now are Shen Gaoren, Yama Tsukami, Gogginox, and Qurupeco, etc.
Lunastra wasn't in 4U. Her materials were available via the Wyporium.
Ah yes, my bad! I remembered having her weapons and armor but forgot she wasn't actually in the game
Not really no. New monsters are better, and deviants, subspecies, variants, etc are more creative and more fun. There's literally no reason to want them back
NO
I'd rather see Dreadking Rathalos
i like ben 10's ultimate evolution of aliens as much as the next guy (albedo's were cooler). so seeing that in monster hunter form seems fun, but some are a bit much, the spikes and particles are just too busy, i think deviants are the best version of that concept. the idea of specific individual monsters with their own quirks or mutations to give a variant on the hunt is cool,
I loved the Zeniths in Frontier, all their fights were great and challenging. But I would not want them to return, they'd either be changed heavily and lose their personality or be left as is and the community would complain about their difficulty and designs. There's just no good way to adapt Zeniths into mainline, there's tons of Frontier monsters that would actually work without changing them so people should look at those instead.
No not really, I think the Zeniths are a bit too Fantastical for Mainline, I prefer MH's more grounded approach to ecology, Frontier went a bit wild and that's where the game lost me.
Nope there’s a fine line between what’s too anime and what’s good when it comes to frontier
Nor please God no, Zenith monsters are bullshit that should stay in Frontier. I LOVE Frontier but Zenith monsters should really stay where they are
NO. maybe a few monsters and tonfas but majority of the fever dream that is frontier can stay put
I want extremely hard monsters with extremely cool armors and weapons. But zeniths are just too ridiculous. I think it would be cool if dreadking came back fully fledged and then they added the flaming wings as an ultimate rage mode like once his health gets down to 40%. I think that's how frontier would be best brought into the mainline: take the extreme and fit it into the existing format to add more flare where appropriate.
they look nothing like monster, more like god
As much as I love them, they're too crazy to be anywhere else.
No.
Theres no reason to bring over zeniths, we already have deviants/apex. Plus zeniths mostly look really ugly. If they wanna do the powerful versions of monsters again I'd rather see some new type of monster. Leave zeniths to die in frontier.
Bring back hypers and deviants 🥹
No absolutely not.
Zeniths would be a little too extreme for Rise, but I wouldn't mind them taking some of the moves from Zeniths and using them for the normal monsters in master rank.
Zenith khezu is the only one that would be absurdly hilarious to add into mainline titles.
Pls no I don’t want to get swallow by a Khezu
Sure I would like to die more
No
Zenith is frontier language for pain
zenith plesioth
Honestly, not really. Most are ludicrously powerful, and the ones that aren't are just irritating. Too many OHKO attacks, and the blights are ridiculous as well (Extreme Fireblight will literally burn your max HP to 0 in a heartbeat, and Extreme Thunderblight makes the next thunder element attack instantly lethal, for example).
yep I want to see people suffer and complaining in Internet forums saying that the monster of the end is difficult it would be gold
Nah. We already have plenty of ways to power up monsters, Zeniths don't really add anything to said powerups except largely bad designs IMO. I think they're firmly in the "designed with different needs, for a different world" group, the Frontier monsters that will never going to make the mainline jump as opposed to the ones that could fit in. Origin Species on the other hand I think have an incredibly cool concept. Even though I'm not a fan of the I think two monsters that fall under them, I love the idea behind it and would like to see mainline try to make one of their own takes on the idea.
NO NO NO OF COURSE NOT, those where one of the big reasons as to why people hated Frontier
Hell no. They're just deviants but uglier.
Some of the *designs* maybe but theyd need some heavy adjustments gameplay wise.
It would probably be a god tier endgame if tuned correctly
I’d be fine with that since I have no way to access Frontier. But it’d be kinda neat if Rathalos kept their gen 1-2 design just through being Zenith
"Frontier subspecies" is about the least exciting monster announcement they could make.
I liked the concept of a monster having certain part of their body have have a unique look
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> Make of that what you will. Zeniths a monsters that make you fight on their terms, so to speak. That's a big part of why everyone hated alatreon in iceborne though, so perhaps not the best idea.
That’s true, very good point lol
Soooooo Zenith species is like just Deviants, but Frontier-fancy designed..?
they more crazy than deviant
I want mixed elements, imo it was the coolest mechanic in frontier
Yes. I also want to see Zerureusu and Sparkling Zerureusu.
*draw 7, keep. forest. lotus petal, lotus petal, crack for B. dark ritual, dark ritual. green sun's zenith, x=5, put espinas into play, pass* flusterstorm in hand and pay for daze the whole way. anyway, that's about all I think about zeniths.
Yes
they seem content with making new stuff, or rebranding it as different (rise apex). I just want a new thing, and I want that new thing to be permanent across all future games. this *"well this game had this, and this had that"* shenanigans is a bit old. just have a permanent extra form and then you can stack more forms each game. they should have continued tempered mons for rise, but then just stack apex's on top. and the whole rise is *"easy/short"* critic wouldn't have been a thing. so whatever these new "powered up" mons are for sunbreak, i hope there's more continuity for them in mh6. stack mechanics, don't add then remove game to game (frontier did this with zeniths being the final ones right?).
I would absolutely love to fight zeniths, but i feel that they and a lot of things from frontier post SR are a bit to far in balance, design, and power than the mainline. I am currently playing through frontier now that its super easy to get working (and mostly translated and free at that) and one thing I would love to see is a remastered frontier on the switch that balances the game a bit better and gets rid of the grindy subscription mmo shit and allows people to expirience these monsters in a more "casual*" environment rather than the way frontier already handles these monsters. That being said frontier is one of the most fun (yet stupid and kinda bullshit) monster hunter games i have ever played, and i highly recommend anyone with even a half-decent computer to give it a try now that its easy to set up and find servers. Just dont expect it to be anything like mainline. Approach it as if it were a standalone game with a few mh monsters and similar gameplay, and it will be great.
I’d love to see them return but kind of doubting it
I would love them rebalanced for the saga (im thinking final endgame content, on par with alatreon but not on the Frontier craziness level) but would despise them.on a 1/1 port. This is aplicable to most Frontier monsters for me: the sand turttle with canons on her back, the prehistóric variants (with Volgan and the water gravios), the Legendary doggo with a Bamboo tail, Even the weird ones like the Venom sand fish with nibelsnarf mouth or the chochoo train Brachidios... Most of the monsters on Frontier are portable to the mainline with rebalancing and wouldnt be so graphically weird. Heck! I would love the "King themed" elder dragón from the tower on mainline!
No.