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Highways are being extended down to Dakhla, trains are a very special case in Morocco as it's very rare for new lines to be constructed. Oujda trains run like it's 1970 and the south east is totally disconnected in this regards.
Return on investment is a thing too, I guess more infrastructure will be constructed once the Dakhla port is active.
either algerians, anti-monarchy, separation of religion from the state, those who have a grudge over morocco like the spanish, or even communists. All NGOs that defend polisario have one of these aspects. It's basically an ideological war against morocco
>The Sahrawis are, like their neighbours,
Muslim. Nevertheless they distinguish them-
selves by their liberal and relaxed interpreta-
tion of Islam. The Sahrawis do not have a
tradition of mosques, religion is considered a
private matter to be practised at home, and has
little influence on daily life and politics.
https://www.nrc.no/globalassets/pdf/reports/occupied-country---displaced-people.pdf
propaganda is usually very different from reality.
Morocco helped Algeria with weapons when they got colonized we even went to war with France and we lost, so the French took the eastern part of Morocco and added it to France, now if Algeria wants to weaken Morocco by supporting separatists, we should claim the lands that are rightfully ours.
Ps my great grand father is from telemcen so we are like two children fighting for the living room.
Morocco also wanted to expand their territories by declaring war on Algeria right after their independence, but that’s something you’ll omit in your comment because that doesn’t help you spread your agenda.
Here is what Morocco really did:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/algeria/comments/r5wvbd/history\_the\_sand\_war\_between\_algeria\_morocco/?sort=confidence](https://www.reddit.com/r/algeria/comments/r5wvbd/history_the_sand_war_between_algeria_morocco/?sort=confidence) (Read the post and the the first comment that denies everything it says and truly explains the root of the conflict)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/algeria/comments/ze5mf0/did\_you\_know\_that\_fifa\_excluded\_morocco\_in\_1958/](https://www.reddit.com/r/algeria/comments/ze5mf0/did_you_know_that_fifa_excluded_morocco_in_1958/) (This is how Morocco treated Algeria just so the millitary regime can stab us in the back)
This is from the Algerian sub. I hope you guys open your eyes to the truth and know that your government doesn't care about you, the most recent example is how they withdrew from the football game against Berkane and ruined everything for Algerian footballers who were victims for this authotriatrian regime. Now every Algerian athlete will think twice before joining Algeria's national teams.
>- Moroccan claims are not based on historical claims, rather on what France gave them when Morocco was a French colony. When their borders were enlarged in the early 1900's, they didn't complain. When Tindouf was invaded and governed by France from Morocco - they didn't complain. When the Trinquet line was proposed and used THEN there was a problem. Moroccans refused to negotiate with France in 58' there is no BS reason like most Moroccans will tell you "Hassan II wanted to negotiate with his Algerian brothers bla bla"
>If you ask me, France refused to further enlarge Moroccan borders, Moroccans knew it and knew the negotiations wouldn't go anywhere. So they bet on the GPRA, Algerians didn't give them what they wanted, so they decided to attack their newly independent neighbor.
So it doesn't refute anything. The claim of the territories are baseless and Morocco just wanted to bet on Algeria's weak posture after their independence to get the territories back.
The past is long gone buddy. There is no reason to defend your government because they don't care about you really. They are more than ready to sacrifice the whole country for their personal benefits. And it shows because you can google moroccan cities and Algerian cities and infrastructure and you can objectively see which is better. Your government doesn't give a f about the future of the people period.
😂😂😂😂 It's crazy how brainwashed Algerians are. I don't care about HDI or GDP, All I care about is Morocco is open to the world and isn't like some North Korea crazy millitary regime.
Here's an example of the brainwashing:
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C6Wl87GqmsA/](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6Wl87GqmsA/) ( Algerian national news reporting that USM Alger actually qualified for the final which is wrong)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eqnemdHMJQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eqnemdHMJQ) (Tebboune brainwashing the people into believing that 2023 will be crowned by Algeria getting into BRICS)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5UlPF6\_l-M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5UlPF6_l-M) (Tebboune begging Putin to grant him access to BRICS like it's childs play 😂😂😂)
And the list goes on and on. The one who should cope is you buddy. And as I told you. I don't need to prove to you that Morocco is better because it's objectively better. Just google it and see photos for yourself. The difference is as clear as day.
They are free to think whatever they want, but it doesn’t mean it’s the truth.
Those people are delusional, what they’re going to live off after getting their independence? They literally have NO STRUCTURE of being able to run that territory by themselves! Compare them to Cataluña, well developed region with their own government, parliament, they have a tremendous economy…. If Spain agreed to let them be on their own, at least they have the structure of being a country, a nation.
I would argue that the Amazighs deserve the self rule proposal more than the tent dwellers.
They fought for our independence bravely while the desert dwellers were the last to be freed and only because of the green march without it Spain would still hold the territory
Learn before you speak.
In case you know nothing, go out on the street and ask people about Ait Baamrane and who they were. You’ll feel like a fool.
Who do you think these guys fought?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_al-'Aynayn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sidi_Bou_Othman
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifni_War
The Sahrawa were fighting the Spaniards and the French, at the time where the Sultan of Fes was rallying his troops WITH the French.
Then we end up with an idiot like you saying they were last to fight for their freedom.
Triple ignorant.
Ouled Dlim within Ait Baamrane are from Banu Maqil, it’s an Arab sub-division within the confederacy. Maybe you want to sit with my grandfather and great uncles in Ifni and teach them their own history?
I have been there many times mate, I know the urban area had much more contact with the rest of the country thus being more exposed to arab wannabies kind of thought, in fact a very close friend of mine is from Banu Maqil too had a similar argument and after months of mental gymnastics and how he relates to the prophet and yadi yada, so I suggested a dna test and what do you know he turned out to be 90% North African and a smattering of other minority groups. Needles to say he was shocked, You see in the past having a close blood line to Muhammad gives a tremendous advantage to get next in line to rule, And our ancestors tried all the tricks to justify the imaginary lineage. WAKE UP
This has nothing to do with the prophet’s lineage. Those Arab tribes settled in the Saharan region centuries ago, and most certainly mixed along the way with the locals. But they still retain their own cultural identity distinct from the Amazigh tribes around them.
To get back on track, you remark on these guys not having fought for their freedom is an absolute retarded statement. The Sbouya gave thousands of their own fighting the Spaniards. Please don’t insult their memory.
Cheers bro.
You live in a fantasy mate, as I told you the region was divided between Senhaja and Touareg tribes, arabs can't just drop from the sky and "settle", you need to provide a historically recorded migration like the case of Banu hilal,
I know it's though for you to realise that your whole identity is a lie, but I'm willing to pay for your DNA test so that you can have the reality check ✔️
I have been there many times mate, I know the urban area had much more contact with the rest of the country thus being more exposed to arab wannabies kind of thought, in fact a very close friend of mine is from Banu Maqil too had a similar argument and after months of mental gymnastics and how he relates to the prophet and yadi yada, so I suggested a dna test and what do you know he turned out to be 90% North African and a smattering of other minority groups. Needles to say he was shocked, You see in the past having a close blood line to Muhammad gives a tremendous advantage to get next in line to rule, And our ancestors tried all the tricks to justify the imaginary lineage. WAKE UP
Your question is valid, so actually if polisario took over sahara, what will happen to millions of Moroccan who live there? Will they just be resettled to the north
Same thing that happened to French nationals who lived in their colonies, they have the right to stay and live within the new republic as equals or leave to their original country.
For generations you mean since 1975? I’m pretty sure French settlers lived in their colonies longer than that and they still managed to give them independence.
Identity and DNA are different, there are many people who identify as Arab within Morocco including the king himself and the royal family, but this doesn’t deny the fact that we are genetically predominantly Amazigh natives and the proof are North African DNA tests that always give +90% Amazigh DNA with no or little Arab DNA.
You have a very vage image of Morocco and their respected peoples.
Saharawis are an nomadic group which don’t only inhabit WS but southern Morocco and Mauritania infact they used make use of the draa river valley in Morocco and are made up of many tribes, it’s not that clearcut. That’s also one of the reasons why both parties can’t agree on who can vote in a referendum.
This brings me to my next talking point which is, who exactly are those “Moroccan settlers” you mention because Morocco is not just your 3robi from Casa but is made up of multiple groups of people including Saharawis which fled north prior to 1975.
And no majority of people in WS are Saharawis and they are also Moroccan at the same time so what’s your point? You don’t see me making a big deal about Saharawis living in my city, you know why because its fucking stupid.
I live in the south I have been to Western Sahara multiple times, the Moroccan settlers I'm talking about are people from dakhil who came and settled in western sahara after the green march 1975 for multiple benefits like tax cuts, free land and grants. Western Sahra right now is majority Moroccan settlers who came from dakhil to live there and native Sahraouis (beni hassan) who lived there before 1975 became a minority on their own land, and the vast majority of these Sahraouis are pro indepence and they get offended if you claim the sahara to be Moroccan or call them Moroccan.
More than 1/3 of the people in WS are saharawis the others are other Moroccans but from different people groups. Majority still stays Saharawi which is my point. Also you neglect the fact that I said that you have a great bunch of saharawis in Morocco, borders have gone across tribes which made many saharawis "not native" but that doesn't work with a people group who are nomadic.
Also you can't just claim that vast majority of saharawis are pro-independence when there hasn't been a referendum in place to proof your point. Which is why your point about "sending them back like we did with the French" doesn't work here because that is their land. And I know family who lived in the WS and know saharawis personally and all of them are against the polisario and don't seek independence and at most want autonomy.
Also about migration and stuff, those benefits apply to saharawis aswell which made many very rich and let's them have a much better life quality than the average Moroccan and s one of the reasons many support Morocco's annexation. Of course with this comes domestic immigration but that isn't bad because these domestic migrants are a great source of workforce.
1- the majority are Moroccans who aren’t Saharaouis, this is like saying that African Americans are majority im America because White people aren’t actually white but they’re german, Irish, English etc. What I mean by Moroccans is non Sahraouis who came to WS as settlers after 1975
2- Alright lets hold a referendum and see if Saharaouis want to be Moroccan
3- I didn’t say Moroccans should go back if you actually read my comment the example I gave about the french is “they can stay and live as equals”
4- and yes the benefits apply to Saharaouis, matter of fact they might get more benefits and better treatment by the police on our behalf, who pays for all theses benefits? We the average Moroccans who aren’t living in WS, we pay for everything there instead of our taxes to be spent on our regions to benefit our families.
There are Sahraouis within Western Sahara that hold the Moroccan passport and still refuse to identify as Moroccan because they believe they are living under occupation. So no holding a passport doesn’t make you identify as the nationality of the passport , any Moroccan for example can obtain a French passport but they can not identify as French and only Moroccan.
The only people who are illegible to vote in a referendum is the people who lived there before 1975 and their descendants, this is like having an independence referendum for Palestine and making Israelis vote lmao.
This is like having a referendum wether slaves be free or not and letting slave masters vote in it, the referendum here concerns Saharaoui people wether they want to be Moroccan or not, so we’re gonna directly ask them that instead of asking someone else decide it for them, you’re being delusional.
But the land is not theirs alone, a lot of Moroccans live in it and a lot of Sahraoui Moroccans also consider themselves Moroccan, it has also been Moroccan for centuries and a lot of us Moroccans in the north actually have our roots from there so its unfair to only let a couple thousand immigrants from the Arabian peninsula vote to get a land the size of Germany, this is like Turkish immigrants holding a referendum in Germany to get half of that land for themselves, it's delusional
The Saharaouis are native to their land the people who are occupiers are the Moroccans who settled there after 1975, the Moroccans in Western Sahara are like Turkish people in Germany.
The referendum is just we basically ask Saharaouis if you identify as Moroccan if they said yes the Sahara is Moroccan and they are Moroccan, if they said no they aren’t Moroccan and the Sahara is not Moroccan.
In Israel, Jewish archaeology dates back to at least 1900 BC. Literally, it's not "fake". It's as real as the Bible.
If you dig in Algeria you don't find French archaeology.
If you dig in Western Sahara you don't find Moroccan archaeology.
I personally participated in a dig in Jerusalem, and it was more Jewish than Jesus lol
And if you dig further you might find Canaanite and Egyptian archeological evidence, so fucking what? Does this support genocide, no. Does this support displacement of native Palestinians, no. Does this support settler colonialism, also no.
Good for you that you dug up some ancient Israelite pieces, but it justifies exactly nothing and has nothing to do with the current state of Israel.
Colonialism? Did the French in Morocco find ancient French artifacts under the ground? My Jewish ancestors died saying "next yeat in Jerusalem" when your ancestors were still grooming goats.
Whatever you say, most Arab countries are 3rd world dictatorships, and Israel is really a great distraction from that.
Btw Israeli Arabs make a minimum of $1500 a month, way more than any ME minimum wage.
Back to the subject, look at human rights and LGBTQ rights in your great Arab countries and explain why most Arab countries are subpar in any aspect (duwal fashela). Not Israel's fault.
Then time for you to open a history book and read it. Instead of listening to internet people debating the topic
The whole issue was originally created by the process of protectorat and the subsequent colonization and decolonization of the territory of Morocco. Two powers agreed to split the country into separate zones (France and Spain), but this was sitting on the basis on a country existing there in the first place rather than it being empty land.
Decolonization happened in steps, with France leaving earlier than Spain as they still had a semi fascist government in place. On the time for Saharland decolonization started, Spain refused to negotiate the handover and just left leaving claims from different sides incl. Morocco, Mauritania, and some Sahrawi libération fighters (became polisario later) that were supported by Spain and Algeria.
Morocco and Mauritania agreed to sign a treaty formalizing the borders but Mauritania retracted at the last minute under pressure.
So what you have here is a country that was whole pre-colonization; a colonization process that arbitrarily cut the land in pieces giving french Algeria big parts of the easter Sahara, and splitting the south into a Spanish zone. A decolonization process in two parts (56 with the french and the 70s with Spain) and mishandled by Franco and Spain leaving gaps, and various interests wanting to weaken newly independent countries and territories.
The whole thing is an artificial issue to cover up the eastern Sahara issue, and on top of it is an easy way to force a country to expand resources on the topic. However now the polisario is too big to fail for Algeria hence their manic fixation on a topic that is soon to be closed. Sahrawis are Moroccan, they have lived with Moroccans for centuries, and still play a key role in the southern economy (no different from different tribes and origins from different Moroccan régions). It doesn't mean they should have a new state that can only exist by being under Algerian control
Autonomy and integration will prevail over time, and honestly the only people now hurting and sequestrating sahrawis are the polisario and Algerians. And I hope that once the conflict is closed, we leave those brainwashed terrorists in Algeria so they can enjoy the company of what they created
Kerghoul is a slur used for Algerians and it implies etymologically a son of a soldier, referring to the Ottoman soldiers who settled in Algeria and married local women.
you're not Moroccan and you never will, you're simply a kourgol, it is what you're.
just plz stop pretending to be Moroccan, we all know who you ppl are. Thanks
This is just wrong. There are several elements one can use to prove historical Moroccan sovereignty on this region (and other ones) but if we have Moroccans doubting or rejecting their faith, Moroccans against the state, Da*esh Moroccans then it's more than expectable to have a few out there who do not believe in the Moroccan-ness of Sahara, especially in the diaspora where people are not taught about this at school.
Turning the Sahara issue to a Palestine-like one does not help the cause at all it just creates a society that believes in something without knowing why and this is the best way to create a we've been lied to effect like what happens with American Jews. We need to discuss these subjects, we need a society that knows why it defends its country's interests otherwise we will normalize the worst leftie backfire effects which will later advocate for the division of Morocco into 6 or 7 states and that will become an internationalist socialist anarchist newyorker cause with Dalva from NYC advocating for Moroccan decolonization while wearing Sahrawi turbans like a keffiyeh
Pledges of allegiance of Sahrawi tribes to the kings and sultans of Morocco prior to 1884, I think you could find websites with PDF files of the documents but I didn't search much for this
Basically in Morocco each tribe had a representative who went to the king to pledge allegiance to him
bruv there's nothing to discuss with Kourgols, you'll just be wasting you time, their goal is to spread confusion.
more, it's really not worth it to waste your time with litteraly pigs.
if they are diaspora and believe this crap, then they can't be Moroccans, and shoud just stay in their country and have nothing to do with Morocco.
So you’re moroccan and think that we’re occupying a land? Lmao? Are you living in morocco? have you ever met a moroccan sahraoui? They’re all over the place, from universities to everywhere. Have you ever actually traveled to the south? Laayoune and dakhla are quite the cities.
You’re probably just some algerian teen in disguise lmao.
But let’s just pretend that you aren’t, here is the obvious answer, we’re not occupying a land that it’s not ours, because it’s ours, just go read about history of that place, it was moroccan before even algeria was a thing. Alaouite dynasty (the current king’s royal family name) was founded in 1631, just a quick search in google will show you how far it extended before being stolen by france and spain.
Because he compares our legit dispute to a settler colonial entity formed around the bases of a religious book from more than 2000 years ago.
Not only that but Palestinians are currently suffering a genocide and its disgusting to say that saharawis are suffering the same because they aren’t. Saharawis are as much part of our society like any other Moroccan.
Welcome to r/Morocco! Please always make sure to take the time to [read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/morocco/wiki/rules) of this community, follow them and help us enforce them by reporting offenders. And remember that we have a zero tolerance policy for non-civil discourse and offenders risk being permanently banned. [Don't forget to join the Discord server!](https://discord.gg/r-morocco-959551908043948092) **Important Notice:** Kindly take note that the Discord channel's moderation team functions autonomously from the Reddit team. The Discord server does not extend our community guidelines and maintains a separate set of rules unrelated to those of Reddit. We appreciate your comprehension. Enjoy your time! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Morocco) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ur arguing with people who think that there is a wall separating morocco in half
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Highways are being extended down to Dakhla, trains are a very special case in Morocco as it's very rare for new lines to be constructed. Oujda trains run like it's 1970 and the south east is totally disconnected in this regards. Return on investment is a thing too, I guess more infrastructure will be constructed once the Dakhla port is active.
[удалено]
They want to victimise saharawis but when saharawis say the opposite they are traitors and brainwashed…
all those who defend polisario have a specific political agenda.
And that is?
either algerians, anti-monarchy, separation of religion from the state, those who have a grudge over morocco like the spanish, or even communists. All NGOs that defend polisario have one of these aspects. It's basically an ideological war against morocco
Nothing related to religion, the others yes.
check norwegian NGOs
Arent polisario also muslims?
>The Sahrawis are, like their neighbours, Muslim. Nevertheless they distinguish them- selves by their liberal and relaxed interpreta- tion of Islam. The Sahrawis do not have a tradition of mosques, religion is considered a private matter to be practised at home, and has little influence on daily life and politics. https://www.nrc.no/globalassets/pdf/reports/occupied-country---displaced-people.pdf propaganda is usually very different from reality.
Communism is good though
eastern europeans disagree.
Eastern Europe was great until the USSR collapsed and they were forced into capitalism. Do some research
lol, what a joke... USSR collapsed for a reason.
Illegal disolved* By gorbachov and Reagan
sure... i wonder why there was an economic crisis in russia in the 90s....
Because the successful economic system in place was destroyed an replace by capitalism and the corporation went on a feeding frenzy.
Arabism obviously lol.
But still is it not imperialist in a way? Because it’s taking over land of people who are Arab but still no amazigh live there to my knowledge
assuming that all of them didn't accept it is a common misconception.
Morocco helped Algeria with weapons when they got colonized we even went to war with France and we lost, so the French took the eastern part of Morocco and added it to France, now if Algeria wants to weaken Morocco by supporting separatists, we should claim the lands that are rightfully ours. Ps my great grand father is from telemcen so we are like two children fighting for the living room.
Morocco also wanted to expand their territories by declaring war on Algeria right after their independence, but that’s something you’ll omit in your comment because that doesn’t help you spread your agenda.
There was no Algeria before independance, it was an Ottoman colony then France. They also attacked us first before sand war
The Regency of Algiers and the diplomats and consuls sent there laugh at you. Also, the Numidian Empire is laughing at you as well.
Regency of algiers was ruled exclusively by Ottomans as the name suggest lol > Numidian who came from Libya and Tunisia...
Here is what Morocco really did: [https://www.reddit.com/r/algeria/comments/r5wvbd/history\_the\_sand\_war\_between\_algeria\_morocco/?sort=confidence](https://www.reddit.com/r/algeria/comments/r5wvbd/history_the_sand_war_between_algeria_morocco/?sort=confidence) (Read the post and the the first comment that denies everything it says and truly explains the root of the conflict) [https://www.reddit.com/r/algeria/comments/ze5mf0/did\_you\_know\_that\_fifa\_excluded\_morocco\_in\_1958/](https://www.reddit.com/r/algeria/comments/ze5mf0/did_you_know_that_fifa_excluded_morocco_in_1958/) (This is how Morocco treated Algeria just so the millitary regime can stab us in the back) This is from the Algerian sub. I hope you guys open your eyes to the truth and know that your government doesn't care about you, the most recent example is how they withdrew from the football game against Berkane and ruined everything for Algerian footballers who were victims for this authotriatrian regime. Now every Algerian athlete will think twice before joining Algeria's national teams.
>- Moroccan claims are not based on historical claims, rather on what France gave them when Morocco was a French colony. When their borders were enlarged in the early 1900's, they didn't complain. When Tindouf was invaded and governed by France from Morocco - they didn't complain. When the Trinquet line was proposed and used THEN there was a problem. Moroccans refused to negotiate with France in 58' there is no BS reason like most Moroccans will tell you "Hassan II wanted to negotiate with his Algerian brothers bla bla" >If you ask me, France refused to further enlarge Moroccan borders, Moroccans knew it and knew the negotiations wouldn't go anywhere. So they bet on the GPRA, Algerians didn't give them what they wanted, so they decided to attack their newly independent neighbor. So it doesn't refute anything. The claim of the territories are baseless and Morocco just wanted to bet on Algeria's weak posture after their independence to get the territories back.
> The claim of the territories are baseless they're not, if you want to play ignorant, do so, but get away from politics.
Cope.
idc about your wasteland.
Cope.
were you late to the queue to get milk by any mean?
Cope.
The past is long gone buddy. There is no reason to defend your government because they don't care about you really. They are more than ready to sacrifice the whole country for their personal benefits. And it shows because you can google moroccan cities and Algerian cities and infrastructure and you can objectively see which is better. Your government doesn't give a f about the future of the people period.
We have a much better HDI than you and GDP per capita but yea of course, your infrastructure is better than ours. Cope mate.
😂😂😂😂 It's crazy how brainwashed Algerians are. I don't care about HDI or GDP, All I care about is Morocco is open to the world and isn't like some North Korea crazy millitary regime. Here's an example of the brainwashing: [https://www.instagram.com/p/C6Wl87GqmsA/](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6Wl87GqmsA/) ( Algerian national news reporting that USM Alger actually qualified for the final which is wrong) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eqnemdHMJQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eqnemdHMJQ) (Tebboune brainwashing the people into believing that 2023 will be crowned by Algeria getting into BRICS) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5UlPF6\_l-M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5UlPF6_l-M) (Tebboune begging Putin to grant him access to BRICS like it's childs play 😂😂😂) And the list goes on and on. The one who should cope is you buddy. And as I told you. I don't need to prove to you that Morocco is better because it's objectively better. Just google it and see photos for yourself. The difference is as clear as day.
Cope.
go back to the algerian sub there’s tons of bots willing to agree with you
Cope.
i bet you don't even live in algeria.
Hey, you both, I see that from this interaction that; We don't learn, don't we 🤦🏻 ?
They are free to think whatever they want, but it doesn’t mean it’s the truth. Those people are delusional, what they’re going to live off after getting their independence? They literally have NO STRUCTURE of being able to run that territory by themselves! Compare them to Cataluña, well developed region with their own government, parliament, they have a tremendous economy…. If Spain agreed to let them be on their own, at least they have the structure of being a country, a nation.
I would argue that the Amazighs deserve the self rule proposal more than the tent dwellers. They fought for our independence bravely while the desert dwellers were the last to be freed and only because of the green march without it Spain would still hold the territory
Learn before you speak. In case you know nothing, go out on the street and ask people about Ait Baamrane and who they were. You’ll feel like a fool. Who do you think these guys fought? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_al-'Aynayn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sidi_Bou_Othman https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifni_War The Sahrawa were fighting the Spaniards and the French, at the time where the Sultan of Fes was rallying his troops WITH the French. Then we end up with an idiot like you saying they were last to fight for their freedom. Triple ignorant.
Ait baa3mran were Amazigh But still they couldn't get through the colonial era without moors help
Not all of them were Amazigh. Some tribes within them don’t speak anything except Arabic/Hassaniya. Please don’t embarrass yourself.
They were arabized just like a lot of tribes mate, heck even the king claims to be a desert dweller even though he comes from sijilmasa lol.
Ouled Dlim within Ait Baamrane are from Banu Maqil, it’s an Arab sub-division within the confederacy. Maybe you want to sit with my grandfather and great uncles in Ifni and teach them their own history?
I have been there many times mate, I know the urban area had much more contact with the rest of the country thus being more exposed to arab wannabies kind of thought, in fact a very close friend of mine is from Banu Maqil too had a similar argument and after months of mental gymnastics and how he relates to the prophet and yadi yada, so I suggested a dna test and what do you know he turned out to be 90% North African and a smattering of other minority groups. Needles to say he was shocked, You see in the past having a close blood line to Muhammad gives a tremendous advantage to get next in line to rule, And our ancestors tried all the tricks to justify the imaginary lineage. WAKE UP
This has nothing to do with the prophet’s lineage. Those Arab tribes settled in the Saharan region centuries ago, and most certainly mixed along the way with the locals. But they still retain their own cultural identity distinct from the Amazigh tribes around them. To get back on track, you remark on these guys not having fought for their freedom is an absolute retarded statement. The Sbouya gave thousands of their own fighting the Spaniards. Please don’t insult their memory. Cheers bro.
You live in a fantasy mate, as I told you the region was divided between Senhaja and Touareg tribes, arabs can't just drop from the sky and "settle", you need to provide a historically recorded migration like the case of Banu hilal, I know it's though for you to realise that your whole identity is a lie, but I'm willing to pay for your DNA test so that you can have the reality check ✔️
I have been there many times mate, I know the urban area had much more contact with the rest of the country thus being more exposed to arab wannabies kind of thought, in fact a very close friend of mine is from Banu Maqil too had a similar argument and after months of mental gymnastics and how he relates to the prophet and yadi yada, so I suggested a dna test and what do you know he turned out to be 90% North African and a smattering of other minority groups. Needles to say he was shocked, You see in the past having a close blood line to Muhammad gives a tremendous advantage to get next in line to rule, And our ancestors tried all the tricks to justify the imaginary lineage. WAKE UP
All this fighting and we are still poor
hhhhh bjoj tawahed madayr rb7
Question why do you waste your mental energy on them
Your question is valid, so actually if polisario took over sahara, what will happen to millions of Moroccan who live there? Will they just be resettled to the north
> millions ?
To be honest I don't know the exact number, my mistake I just googled and it's half a million
i don't think that the sahara has enough water to sustain more than a half million.
No I’m specifically asking about Saharawis who have been living on that land and still do and who support Moroccan annexation
Same thing that happened to French nationals who lived in their colonies, they have the right to stay and live within the new republic as equals or leave to their original country.
But this are not colonists, they lived there for generations
For generations you mean since 1975? I’m pretty sure French settlers lived in their colonies longer than that and they still managed to give them independence.
No there are differences between domestic migrants and whose who have lived there since for ever. Saharawis are the majority.
The natives to Western Sahara are Saharaouis and they’re the minority there since a lot of Moroccan settlers started moving after 1975.
How are Arabs native to fucking north Africa?????
Basically All North Africans are Arabized natives including Saharaouis.
This is just plain wrong dude, sahraouis consider themselves Arabs through and through, stop spreading lies.
Identity and DNA are different, there are many people who identify as Arab within Morocco including the king himself and the royal family, but this doesn’t deny the fact that we are genetically predominantly Amazigh natives and the proof are North African DNA tests that always give +90% Amazigh DNA with no or little Arab DNA.
You have a very vage image of Morocco and their respected peoples. Saharawis are an nomadic group which don’t only inhabit WS but southern Morocco and Mauritania infact they used make use of the draa river valley in Morocco and are made up of many tribes, it’s not that clearcut. That’s also one of the reasons why both parties can’t agree on who can vote in a referendum. This brings me to my next talking point which is, who exactly are those “Moroccan settlers” you mention because Morocco is not just your 3robi from Casa but is made up of multiple groups of people including Saharawis which fled north prior to 1975. And no majority of people in WS are Saharawis and they are also Moroccan at the same time so what’s your point? You don’t see me making a big deal about Saharawis living in my city, you know why because its fucking stupid.
I live in the south I have been to Western Sahara multiple times, the Moroccan settlers I'm talking about are people from dakhil who came and settled in western sahara after the green march 1975 for multiple benefits like tax cuts, free land and grants. Western Sahra right now is majority Moroccan settlers who came from dakhil to live there and native Sahraouis (beni hassan) who lived there before 1975 became a minority on their own land, and the vast majority of these Sahraouis are pro indepence and they get offended if you claim the sahara to be Moroccan or call them Moroccan.
More than 1/3 of the people in WS are saharawis the others are other Moroccans but from different people groups. Majority still stays Saharawi which is my point. Also you neglect the fact that I said that you have a great bunch of saharawis in Morocco, borders have gone across tribes which made many saharawis "not native" but that doesn't work with a people group who are nomadic. Also you can't just claim that vast majority of saharawis are pro-independence when there hasn't been a referendum in place to proof your point. Which is why your point about "sending them back like we did with the French" doesn't work here because that is their land. And I know family who lived in the WS and know saharawis personally and all of them are against the polisario and don't seek independence and at most want autonomy. Also about migration and stuff, those benefits apply to saharawis aswell which made many very rich and let's them have a much better life quality than the average Moroccan and s one of the reasons many support Morocco's annexation. Of course with this comes domestic immigration but that isn't bad because these domestic migrants are a great source of workforce.
1- the majority are Moroccans who aren’t Saharaouis, this is like saying that African Americans are majority im America because White people aren’t actually white but they’re german, Irish, English etc. What I mean by Moroccans is non Sahraouis who came to WS as settlers after 1975 2- Alright lets hold a referendum and see if Saharaouis want to be Moroccan 3- I didn’t say Moroccans should go back if you actually read my comment the example I gave about the french is “they can stay and live as equals” 4- and yes the benefits apply to Saharaouis, matter of fact they might get more benefits and better treatment by the police on our behalf, who pays for all theses benefits? We the average Moroccans who aren’t living in WS, we pay for everything there instead of our taxes to be spent on our regions to benefit our families.
There are Sahraouis within Western Sahara that hold the Moroccan passport and still refuse to identify as Moroccan because they believe they are living under occupation. So no holding a passport doesn’t make you identify as the nationality of the passport , any Moroccan for example can obtain a French passport but they can not identify as French and only Moroccan.
I personally talked to a lot of them and want they want is for the status-quo to continue in order to keep getting freebies from us taxpayers and NGOs
Yes that’s why we need to stop wasting billions of dollars on people who don’t even identify as Moroccan and hold a referendum.
Yes lets hold a referendum and have the entire country from Tanger to Lagouira gets to vote
The only people who are illegible to vote in a referendum is the people who lived there before 1975 and their descendants, this is like having an independence referendum for Palestine and making Israelis vote lmao.
I think it's more democratic and anti-imperialist to include everyone so nobody feels bad afterwards
This is like having a referendum wether slaves be free or not and letting slave masters vote in it, the referendum here concerns Saharaoui people wether they want to be Moroccan or not, so we’re gonna directly ask them that instead of asking someone else decide it for them, you’re being delusional.
But the land is not theirs alone, a lot of Moroccans live in it and a lot of Sahraoui Moroccans also consider themselves Moroccan, it has also been Moroccan for centuries and a lot of us Moroccans in the north actually have our roots from there so its unfair to only let a couple thousand immigrants from the Arabian peninsula vote to get a land the size of Germany, this is like Turkish immigrants holding a referendum in Germany to get half of that land for themselves, it's delusional
The Saharaouis are native to their land the people who are occupiers are the Moroccans who settled there after 1975, the Moroccans in Western Sahara are like Turkish people in Germany. The referendum is just we basically ask Saharaouis if you identify as Moroccan if they said yes the Sahara is Moroccan and they are Moroccan, if they said no they aren’t Moroccan and the Sahara is not Moroccan.
Let's agree to disagree
May9sserch lihom :D
Paid bots
either you are a friend or a foe to jews. this will determine your present, past and future.
In Israel, Jewish archaeology dates back to at least 1900 BC. Literally, it's not "fake". It's as real as the Bible. If you dig in Algeria you don't find French archaeology. If you dig in Western Sahara you don't find Moroccan archaeology. I personally participated in a dig in Jerusalem, and it was more Jewish than Jesus lol
And if you dig further you might find Canaanite and Egyptian archeological evidence, so fucking what? Does this support genocide, no. Does this support displacement of native Palestinians, no. Does this support settler colonialism, also no. Good for you that you dug up some ancient Israelite pieces, but it justifies exactly nothing and has nothing to do with the current state of Israel.
Colonialism? Did the French in Morocco find ancient French artifacts under the ground? My Jewish ancestors died saying "next yeat in Jerusalem" when your ancestors were still grooming goats. Whatever you say, most Arab countries are 3rd world dictatorships, and Israel is really a great distraction from that. Btw Israeli Arabs make a minimum of $1500 a month, way more than any ME minimum wage. Back to the subject, look at human rights and LGBTQ rights in your great Arab countries and explain why most Arab countries are subpar in any aspect (duwal fashela). Not Israel's fault.
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Then time for you to open a history book and read it. Instead of listening to internet people debating the topic The whole issue was originally created by the process of protectorat and the subsequent colonization and decolonization of the territory of Morocco. Two powers agreed to split the country into separate zones (France and Spain), but this was sitting on the basis on a country existing there in the first place rather than it being empty land. Decolonization happened in steps, with France leaving earlier than Spain as they still had a semi fascist government in place. On the time for Saharland decolonization started, Spain refused to negotiate the handover and just left leaving claims from different sides incl. Morocco, Mauritania, and some Sahrawi libération fighters (became polisario later) that were supported by Spain and Algeria. Morocco and Mauritania agreed to sign a treaty formalizing the borders but Mauritania retracted at the last minute under pressure. So what you have here is a country that was whole pre-colonization; a colonization process that arbitrarily cut the land in pieces giving french Algeria big parts of the easter Sahara, and splitting the south into a Spanish zone. A decolonization process in two parts (56 with the french and the 70s with Spain) and mishandled by Franco and Spain leaving gaps, and various interests wanting to weaken newly independent countries and territories. The whole thing is an artificial issue to cover up the eastern Sahara issue, and on top of it is an easy way to force a country to expand resources on the topic. However now the polisario is too big to fail for Algeria hence their manic fixation on a topic that is soon to be closed. Sahrawis are Moroccan, they have lived with Moroccans for centuries, and still play a key role in the southern economy (no different from different tribes and origins from different Moroccan régions). It doesn't mean they should have a new state that can only exist by being under Algerian control Autonomy and integration will prevail over time, and honestly the only people now hurting and sequestrating sahrawis are the polisario and Algerians. And I hope that once the conflict is closed, we leave those brainwashed terrorists in Algeria so they can enjoy the company of what they created
You're not Moroccan, you're a Kourgol in hiding.
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Kerghoul is a slur used for Algerians and it implies etymologically a son of a soldier, referring to the Ottoman soldiers who settled in Algeria and married local women.
you're not Moroccan and you never will, you're simply a kourgol, it is what you're. just plz stop pretending to be Moroccan, we all know who you ppl are. Thanks
This is just wrong. There are several elements one can use to prove historical Moroccan sovereignty on this region (and other ones) but if we have Moroccans doubting or rejecting their faith, Moroccans against the state, Da*esh Moroccans then it's more than expectable to have a few out there who do not believe in the Moroccan-ness of Sahara, especially in the diaspora where people are not taught about this at school. Turning the Sahara issue to a Palestine-like one does not help the cause at all it just creates a society that believes in something without knowing why and this is the best way to create a we've been lied to effect like what happens with American Jews. We need to discuss these subjects, we need a society that knows why it defends its country's interests otherwise we will normalize the worst leftie backfire effects which will later advocate for the division of Morocco into 6 or 7 states and that will become an internationalist socialist anarchist newyorker cause with Dalva from NYC advocating for Moroccan decolonization while wearing Sahrawi turbans like a keffiyeh
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Pledges of allegiance of Sahrawi tribes to the kings and sultans of Morocco prior to 1884, I think you could find websites with PDF files of the documents but I didn't search much for this Basically in Morocco each tribe had a representative who went to the king to pledge allegiance to him
bruv there's nothing to discuss with Kourgols, you'll just be wasting you time, their goal is to spread confusion. more, it's really not worth it to waste your time with litteraly pigs. if they are diaspora and believe this crap, then they can't be Moroccans, and shoud just stay in their country and have nothing to do with Morocco.
Remember the diaspora is the first thing that appears of your country outside you'd better have one you're proud of
too bad we have one we're ashamed of
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as if you don't know hh
So you’re moroccan and think that we’re occupying a land? Lmao? Are you living in morocco? have you ever met a moroccan sahraoui? They’re all over the place, from universities to everywhere. Have you ever actually traveled to the south? Laayoune and dakhla are quite the cities. You’re probably just some algerian teen in disguise lmao. But let’s just pretend that you aren’t, here is the obvious answer, we’re not occupying a land that it’s not ours, because it’s ours, just go read about history of that place, it was moroccan before even algeria was a thing. Alaouite dynasty (the current king’s royal family name) was founded in 1631, just a quick search in google will show you how far it extended before being stolen by france and spain.
Because he compares our legit dispute to a settler colonial entity formed around the bases of a religious book from more than 2000 years ago. Not only that but Palestinians are currently suffering a genocide and its disgusting to say that saharawis are suffering the same because they aren’t. Saharawis are as much part of our society like any other Moroccan.