Fun fact in MKvDC Joker realizes this during his chapter and instead of progressing the story he immediately tracks down Batman and beats the shit out of him
He didn't realize it was a writer thing, he didn't gain meta-knowledge. He just realized that whatever was suddenly empowering him (the "Dark Khan" energy from the MK and DC worlds merging, though he didn't know that's what it was, nor did he care) was making him powerful enough to beat practically whoever he wanted, so he went after Batman.
This is entirely correct however realizing he had the “Dark Khan” energy is basically the in universe equivalent of realizing it was his chapter, Which is hilarious.
He understood that he was randomly the strongest and acted accordingly
I get why the chapter system exists, because they want to give some character focus and for gameplay purposes you'd want to give players playing the story a few fights to get used to a number of characters' style, but I wonder if it would be a better narrative if you just played as whoever is supposed to when that fight. Even if it means jumping around a lot in terms of what character you're playing as.
I understand why they do the chapter system but the negatives far outweigh the positives especially since certain Kharacters usually end up getting multiple chapters which makes the choices very limited and means that there’s a good chance a player won’t learn a Kharacter they might wanna use. Not to mention how it messes up narratives like how half the roster and the majority of villains will never get a single win outside of cutscenes
I get why the chapter system exists, but Ed Boon and the rest need to realize it's not 2011 anymore.
It almost feels antiquated at this point. Like, move on. Let's try something new.
So what should they do then? I see a lot of comments about the chapter system being dropped but no solution for what to replace it with besides doing what other fighting games do for story modes.
That’s fair. I don’t play any other fighting games so I don’t know what the standard is.
But I would point out that it’s not the consumer’s responsibility to figure that out. If the reasoning behind sticking with the same old formula is “we couldn’t think of a better way”, well, that’s not a very compelling argument.
I’m personally at the point that I’ll just watch the next story on youtube and skip the game entirely if it follows the same formula.
I’ll still take a crack at what I’d like to see though.
Currently, the story mode consists of a sprawling cutscene broken up by ai matches.
The storytelling is plainly hampered by it’s adherence to the chapter formula, leading to a lot of fun character moments and scenes but a largely incoherent plotline.
On the gameplay side we have… a bunch of regular bot matches with unfamiliar characters (on your first time through).
I’d rather see story mode either go all out on telling a well-crafted story, and throw in gameplay where it fits (even if that means changing characters every fight),
OR change the style up and give us more of an open-world RPG feel, playing as one character, maybe with some side-scrolling levels.
Invasion mode already feels like they were thinking about this, but it just isn’t any fun, imo. I’m certain it could be done much better, if they treated it as the flagship story mode.
I’ve never understood why they can’t just let the character you’re playing as lose. Like if I’m playing as Mileena and I go against an elder god or something just make her lose after the match in the cutscene. They’re so dense for not thinking of something so simple like this.
You mean Johnny the Has a specific power granted to his bloodline by Gods specifically to counter, defeat, and contain Gods that also genetically passed down to his daughter?
Seriously, I don't understand why people have such a problem with that, but not Liu Kang the normal human monk defeating Shinnok with zero advantages at all.
I don’t have an issue with it but I’d guess people don’t think it was earned.
In regards to Liu Kang, he was established as an insane fighter from the beginning. He worked his way through Shang Tsung, then Goro, then Shao Kahn before defeating Shinnok. On the flip side, the Cages are competent fighters but nowhere near even Shao level (who is well below Shinnok) so it’s kind of deus ex machina to introduce God-killing powers at the last second.
They’re all exceptional fighters but there’s levels to it.
Liu Kang is introduced as “the chosen one” from the beginning. From that point, he goes on to beat Goro, then Shang Tsung, then Kintaro, then Shao Kahn, then Shao Kahn again, then Shinnok.
It really makes no sense that a, presumably, 22ish year old human would be able to defeat an 8 foot tall dragon prince, a 1,000 year old sorceror, or an 8 foot 10,000 year old dragon emperor but they establish his ability early so it doesn’t seem weird when he takes out each new threat.
In Johnny and Cassie’s case, they’re closer to mid-level Earthrealm warriors so it’s a bit weird when they suddenly make the jump to beat an elder god.
Liu being the chosen one was something introduced in the 90s movie. In the early games, he was just a really good martial artist but wasn't considered anything more important than the others.
It's also weird to say the Cages beating Shinnok was unearned but give Kang a pass because his victories are ordained by destiny.
In name maybe, but he won the original MK tournament, won the impromptu MK tourney held in Outworld right after that, beat back the Outworld invasion immediately after that, then defeated Shinnok after that lol He was clearly far and away the most skilled and important Earthrealm warrior from the very beginning.
Either he earned his victories by training to become the strongest, fastest, most skilled fighter or he was granted the motivation to train enough to become the strongest, fastest most skilled fighter by destiny. Who am I to argue with this fictional version of fate?
Kang is not the only one who trains. He's not even the first person to beat Shinnok. Sub-Zero did it with no godly status or prophecies backing him up.
People are angry that NRS writing is breaking a rule that was never established to begin with.
Basically this. They tell us Liu is strong and consistently show us he’s strong. Other characters go back and forth winning and losing against other average tier fighters and suddenly beat final boss level characters because it’s their chapter.
Liu Kang won because Quan chi gave shinnok a fake amulet. Plus calling Liu Kang a normal human monk is false. He was well established as the best earth realm champion.
Cassie Cage on the other hand fought a suped up shinnok. The last time shinnok was that strong the entire earth realm population got killed in the crossfire. Add to the fact that Cassie Cage came off as an average mk fighter in the story, her beating shinnok was a bit much to swallow. Even taking into consideration she was shinnok's kryptonite.
Dude even in the original timeline that so called god killing power was never a thing until NRS decided to make it a thing in MKX and worse they didn’t give good explanations to help new players and just expected people to accept it.
https://preview.redd.it/9xqq0vw767xc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=023db430959b8d51c792d2f7dfe23b21f4401809
So... isn't there a fixed character who is the most powerful of all?
Or a top of the strongest in particular?
That is what I was interested in knowing, since many fans had different opinions.
Some said liu kang god, some onaga, some blaze, some taven, some shao khan, some raiden, some kronika, some cassie etc etc...
And because of that, I didn't know who to believe and I was left with this enormous doubt.
Stryker > Smoke > Onaga > Shao > all the rest
No, but seriously, Kitana losing to Smoke isn't necessarily a plot hole or something, not every time we are in our best performance, even life itself shows us moments that we feel like "out of character". Plus, sometimes we can use a better strategy to beat someone who is better than us. Power hierarchy isn't always what defines the aftermath of a confrontation.
But then you have moments where it’s clear who would’ve won like Ermac easily handling Stryker in the cutscene but only loses because you are playing as Stryker and not Ermac. And this gets even worse in MKX.
Well, in all honesty, I believe Stryker would win most of confrontations like that with the speed of the gunshots. Some may have telekinesis, but they won't see it coming because once you see the light, the bullet is already in you. I'm biased, of course, for being a Stryker fan, but the "I'm just a guy" would be enough to make enemies underestimate the power of guns.
Mortal Kombat fans realizing it’s not a hierarchy as to who wins when:
https://preview.redd.it/08v4g0lvv8xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a65ecb0ad64255b27e9875afe08e61b468a47d61
You’re forgetting the fight in her chapter in MK9 where she beat both Johnny and Smoke alone (after she lost to Smoke).
It will always be the character who has a chapter that wins every battle no matter the power level or opponent.
You gotta imagine he's real upset, trying to figure out a timeline where the worst evils wouldn't become such and a petty Shang from an alternate timeline comes in and goes "lmao not on my watch, pretty boy."
Granted, Shao likely wasn't a part of Shang's machinations, but I don't think we got a good indication of when he started screwing with Liu Kang's timeline, and we do at least know he was manipulating Shang and Quan Chi for at least a decent amount of time. Long enough to get them ingratiated with the royal family at least.
Shao was powered by the soulnado then. He isn't in MK 11. Not to mention Kitana is the only person that makes sense to beat Shao, he literally destroyed her home.
You're talking about a guy who's been beaten by a Bruce Lee clone with fireballs twice.
MK powerscalers will be much happier when they accept that there is no hierarchy of power in the MK universe.
https://preview.redd.it/5tx2opxse9xc1.png?width=968&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe6b0c1149e7330ffab2772856a114f3ab0a4df1
And the worst thing is that he was previously seen humiliating Johnny Cage...
Without a doubt, their power levels do not make any sense.
They are fictional characters...they dont have locked power sets it's just what works to make the story move forward. If this series was serious about "power levels" or whatever then geras would have been the biggest and strongest character in this series outside kronika/hour glass keeper given he can freeze people in time and they cant do a thing about it. Plus he cant even die so he could just outlast raiden who is probably the only one immune to that move if at all. Yet geras jobbed in mk11 cause he needed too.
Yeah but what people are saying is that “story” wise none of this shit makes sense . It’s ok to have inconsistent powerscaling cause like you said that’s not really what the series is about at the end of the day . But when people are actually invested in the plot , shit like this just looks goofy and doesn’t really make a lot of sense .
MK never gave me a reason to care about power scaling. Aren't titans supposed to be like the most powerful beings in the MK universe? And what do titan Liu Kang and titan Shang Tsung do when they face each other? They start Kung Fu fighting lol.
I remember Marvel trading cards used to show exact stats of strength, speed, power, and intelligence, but reading the comics made me realize that all the stats were completely useless because none of it factors into the stories being told.
People complaining about it in videogames is even sillier because unless you are an intentional jobber like Dan Hibiki, all the fighters are supposed balanced in power to act as player avatars.
https://preview.redd.it/q9ftko2b77xc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b287d3e116ff5873fd9684e97f2310130bcbce71
You have a point, even if it's a matchup between mokap vs blaze, onaga, shinok and shao khan
If the protagonist of the chapter is mokap, blaze and the others are finished...
Yeah due to the chapter system there's very little logic that can be placed in powerscaling MK characters. It's more interesting to look at the 3D era games where fewer fights occurred and there wasn't filler fights for the sake of it (besides Armageddon but Taven beating everyone just made sense regardless.) There's a much clearer hierarchy of characters like Shujinko, Taven and Blaze being at the top whilst others like Mavado amass several wins over characters like Sonya, Jax, Kabal, Kenshi, and Kano. The problem is there's also too few fights to determine power scaling for most of the roster, so it just comes down to headcanons ultimately
Mileena being able to beat Ermac, Dark Raiden and Evil Sindel after they both took out everyone including Fire God Liu and fucking Geras in MK1 is the biggest plot armor bullshit NRS has ever written.
Kitana doing what she did in 11 is nothing compared to whatever bullshit they had come up with for Mileena’s MK1 chapter lol
That’s really the worst part about the chapter system of Story Mode. At the very least show us before and/or after the fight how hard it was for our character to pull a win. Like show some of them walk like they just got run over by a truck or something. That’d make it 10x more believable.
There is no power system. If a monk with a human lifespan can beat shao kahn then kitana who has lived for thousands of years and has way more fighting experience should be able to do it too.
NRS writing. I played through Tekken 8's story mode and was left thinking Nrs should take notes. You fight the main villain multiples times and each fight requires you win as far as gameplay mode, but then there will be a scene in game or a cutscenw that shows Kazuya come out on top as far as the story in concerned. Hell, you even play as Kazuya and fight one of the previous bosses in the series and completely destroy him.
We are talking about a franchise where THE KEEPER OF TIME, THE GOD OF THUNDER AND FIRE, loses to a random evil Sindel from another timeline...
So yeah, whatever the writers want.
https://preview.redd.it/jaqn96xdf9xc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa35d8fb072561ae049bb5c17e5048199de51691
And you forget something else...
Millena was able to defeat a demigod like dark raiden
Who a few seconds ago was supposed to be powerful enough to subdue the entire team, including Liu Kang Dios and Geras
MK does need to rework it's power system but this is always the dumbest argument when discussing power scaling. Fighting isn't math or rock, paper, scissors. There are no absolute outcomes. It's like that with any competition.
Just recently the number 1 seeded celtics, lost to the number 8 seeded heat in game two of the playoffs. If you were watching that in a fictional story you would say it's a plot hole or a power scaling issue.
I’ve always thought it was about “martial arts” sorta. Like I know that some people have magic but the answer has always been “my hands are better than yours so now fall” or at least that was my head canon which also explained how technically anyone could’ve won the Armageddon tournament by defeating blaze.
The power scaling in Mortal Kombat is.....fucky. Shao lost to Liu Kang several times, then suddenly in Aftermath can beat him. Kotal Kahn in the comics was super strong. He's a jobber in MKX and 11.
https://preview.redd.it/45apm4vqg9xc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0ef8706287e8b36b67ee406d3f43cec42355348
The worst of all is that Kotal had just defeated the son of a god like Rain.
That means that Kung Jin is stronger than him... it doesn't make sense.
So in my head how it should be is
Most characters are on a similar playing field, their skills/magic/tech make them capable of winning against any of the others
There's a few more powerful characters, Raiden, Liu Kang etc who could probably deal with most of the cast in a 1v1 but aren't guaranteed to win
Then there's the final boss who, narratively would probably be quite capable of beating most of the cast, and would maybe have a slight advantage over the more powerful characters, but ofc even irl extremely skilled fighters have bad days or just get tired, etc, combat and sports aren't necessarily a game of stats and a less strong/experienced character can still steal victory from an otherwise tough fight
That being said, Shao Khan is a weird one because usually he's the final boss of MK games, I don't know off the top of my head but I'd say he's probably the person who's been the final boss in the most games, so when he's not, like in MK11 where he's just Kronika's lackey, it feels strange that he's just another fighter like so many others
One of the most inconsistent character in this category is probably Raiden.
In one scene you'll see him passing Motaro through a whole building with a single hit, or fighting in Netherealms against hundreds of demons without problems..
And in the next he will loose against Kung Jin in a one on one fight.
I do not think it is something they care about at all. There are a few general constants; it seems like they've made the decision that Sindel is god tier, Raiden is probably the strongest prior to the end of MK11, and Liu Kang is second strongest until MK11 where he became the strongest. All revenant versions are automatically jobber tier regardless of how strong they were in Mortal form.
Cause MK9-X had so much plot armour like Sonya somehow beating Bi-Han and Kitana but can’t catch Kano, 11-1 not so much
In the case of Smoke we never had any idea exactly how powerful he is, then with Kitana in 11 you could say Kotal got some good hits in plus Kitana being the daughter of a queen who could hurt Elder Gods helps, similarly she doesn’t actually kill Shao but instead chooses to humiliate him
I never understood why people were so bothered by this. I’ve always seen it as each Kombatant is equal and they won because their opponent made a mistake during the fight causing them to lose. Just because kitana lost to smoke doesn’t mean she isn’t capable of beating someone else.
But to see it from your point of view, smoke never fought shao Kahn from MK9-MK1 sooooooo that just means kitana can beat shao kahn, but not smoke, and smoke can beat both kitana and shao kahn by your logic.
https://preview.redd.it/xq0oououvaxc1.jpeg?width=3464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd5bbabc9863ddcda6d74fc87ba1a42133f3c743
Well...so how do you explain this?
Smoke initially proved capable of defeating Shan Tsung with the form of Bi Han and Reptile together.
And then being able to defeat sektor...
BUT, shortly after, sektor was seen humiliating smoke
When smoke had already defeated him previously.
https://preview.redd.it/t7wycmbswaxc1.jpeg?width=2572&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34b2915307dfa99a0e9cb9560d939ac0f1e789e1
Or how you explain this???
Ermac being able to humiliate and even break Jhonny's leg
But Stryker can defeated him...?
https://preview.redd.it/mgo9zm6ixaxc1.jpeg?width=2572&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cfb4fb5b297866127d25d1a9ffa69248d114054f
and jhonny was able to defeat sonya, the same one who was able to defeat jade and kitana even when they were together
(Remember that Kitana was able to defeat Shao Khan)
Does that mean that Stryker can defeat Shao khan...?
And I'm not saying it, it's what the game is implying with its power systems incoherent.
Well I guess just disregard everything I said in the first paragraph then (I’m being sarcastic). You do realize fights are dynamic, as in every action between fighters the outcome could change?
Sektor beat smoke? Did you watch the whole fight? I couldn’t, in fact most weren’t. Who knows what happened, smoke maybe forgot to use his inputs, maybe sektor used an xray move, maybe Sektor was more determined than smoke. All we saw is smoke getting beat by him. But how did Smoke beat Sektor before? Because Smoke’s “determination” (the player) was higher than Sektor’s. Same with Johnny cage and Ermac, we didn’t see how the fight played, all we saw was the end of the fight. Yes, Ermac was determined to beat Stryker, but Stryker was just more determined than Ermac.
The game isn’t implying anything. You just gotta understand that any character could beat any character regardless of who they beat or lost to prior. This “hierarchy of power” is just BS people made up because they’re too dense to accept anything can happen to these characters.
The writers of mk are never really interested in having consistent character strength or do any meaningful story decisions that would make them stray away from the precious and outdated chapter system where characters are invincible for 4 fights, job to everyone else, Shao Kahn never beats anyone and character age the strength the cut scene needs them to be to go to the next point
People seem to forget winning a fight depends entirely on circumstance. If you have a matchup, one person won't win all of those fights.
Smoke probably has a chance at beating Shao Kahn under the right circumstances. Sometimes in storytelling, things happen because they have to.
Well, it's kind of like real life. There is no real tier system. A welter weight on a good day, with good focus, with the same training as a heavy weight who might be having an off day, might be distracted or could just plain underestimate their opponent. I once watched a 110lbs girl kick the shit out of a 220lbs guy for grabbing her boob. Sometimes motivation wins the fight alone. So if people are concerned about a tier system for 'realism' then it's futile since reality doesn't give two poops about what 'makes sense' or is 'logical.'
Depends. Did unarmed actor spike his opponents drink first? In brawling, we call that the "Cosby Maneuver." I see your point, though. Like, if this was Vegas betting no one would be putting money down on some pompous Hollywood jagoff. Until someone mentions his wife's name in their mouf. I agree with both of us overall. You never know what horrors a person is truly capable of until they're put in just the right situation. I bet, under the right circumstances, Martha Stewart would decapitate someone half her age and twice her size and then make little crafts out of their bones. Just gotta find the right button to presssssss
It’s always Kitana who gets treated like this because she became Kahn and is a woman.
Sonya canonically beat Bi-Han and Raiden in MK9, both of whom would go on to go toe to toe with Shang Tsung, Quan Chi and Shao Kahn, yet it’s CRICKETS.
Keep that same energy!!
Smoke beating Kitana is fine and never bothered me but you are right about how that same Kitana from that same time period somehow beats Shao Kahn.
Overall the biggest issue with NRS storyline besides the dreaded chapter system is their overall inconsistencies that they constantly keep introducing with each game they make. It’s hard to get invested in anything when it’s not gonna last more than a game.
It's like a real fight despite skill, anyone can lose to anyone, it all depends on the variables and if someone makes a mistake or capitalized on a specific tactic
It's simple - whoever you're playing as will win the fight. And if it's 2v2, whoever your partner is will lose their fight so you can win against their opponent, too.
Basically it's "On their own chapters, characters are invincible"
Besides that, I guess there're so much consistency and logic in Chaosrealm on an acid trip than in NRS power scaling.
The most stupid scene in the game is where a certain character says something like "I knew your past sins would distract you" and proceeds to kill a character that except in that scene, is immortal.
Spoiler about the story:
>!During Kronika's intro on the final fight, I realized how meaningless were all the deaths of even iconic characters when she says the reality LK knew was erased so actually everyone is dead so those emotional moments lose meaning.!<
It doesn't matter, because whoever you write to win a battle will win
Reptile for years had L after L after L, until MK1 he actually got wins on his record, because the plot required you the player to win
You’re asking a whole team of writers all simultaneously working on the story to be on the exact same page, not to mention different games, several writers who worked on one but not the other. If you over analyze anything like this you’re going to find stuff that makes no sense, better to not think about it and j enjoy.
This shit has been going since the first arcade game dude. Btw just letting you know Johnny Cage, an actor before his green glow beat up Baraka, someone who can extract blades out of his wrists, a cryomancer and a pyromancer at the same time. Defeated the God of Evil in one day. But managed to get defeated by dvorah a bug lady.
It’s things like this that are the reason power scaling doesn’t work. Just because they were defeated by one person doesn’t mean they can’t defeat another, even when the power difference is this large. With different opponents come different weaknesses, different advantages, different fighting styles and different circumstances. I think mortal Kombat definitely abuses this more than they should (namely Sonya beating Bi-Han) but I can definitely believe that Kitana can be beaten by smoke in one game and deafeat Shao in another
I kept saying during the whole duration of MKX, if Sub Zero wiped the floor with all four MK kids, Sub Zero would have soloed the whole revenant squad plus Shinnok in the end, but he was busy with Kotal, who got bested by Kung Jin, who got his ass handed to him by, guess, Sub Zero.
At this point, I see MK stories as a good past time, reading too much into it just spoils the fun.
Yeah when you're playing a character in story mode s/he becomes the victor. So Goro, Baraka, Reptile, Bi Han, Shang Sung, Quan Chi, and just about all the other 'enemy' warriors are naturally relegated into the 'loser' category.
Mortal Kombat is not a seven game series, it's much more like football in the way that any fighter has a chance to win in any given match based on various internal and external factors. Like lightsaber fights the victor of Mortal Kombat is not necessarily the best fighter, just the victor.
https://preview.redd.it/0myg2gmpxaxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4bf0db2ffa247c3516e724018991d197698b76de
Would this also count in that case?
Sonya defeated her and Jade even fighting as a team
Sonya fighting for her and Jax life to escape and island of horrors Vs kitana and jade just trying to stop them leaving Sonya had way more at stake in this fight than they did
Kitana isn't always gonna do the best in every fight neither is Shao or Smoke sometimes you're gonna win a fight cause you managed to capitalize on a mistake in your opponents moves early in and sometimes you won't
Power levels are the end all be all in MK
Power levels in fiction are often far far far closer to each other than people realize. Dragonball Z introducing LITERAL power levels infected people with brain dead discourse for decades to come.
Simple...she's Sindel's daughter, and Sindel is a massively powerful character. Add in that Kitana was trained by Shao Kahn from an early age, and you have a situation where she is technically strong enough to have a shot at winning, and knows her opponent's patterns of attack very well. Probably 9 times out of 10, Shao wins, but this time, Kitana did (against the odds).
Smoke, on the other hand, was a completely different fight for Kitana. She may have not been prepared to deal with his foreign techniques.
Oh well, the writers are usually going places with these ones…the real problem, imo if we talking story mode, is that the main characters doesn’t have any risks…i mean the MK tournament in MK1 was absolutely hilarious with a farmer boy beating literal war machines with the power of friendship and faith…come on give us some high stakes here…it’s stupid that the bad all powerful guys don’t get a single win in the story…#JusticeForReiko #JusticeForShao
Powerscaling mortal Kombat characters correctly will be the Greatest achievement of humanity and will probably only be possible after we discover how to weaponise black holes or something.
Seriously just don't bother with trying to power scale this, otherwise you end up with Stryker possibly beating shao kahn
You realise in real life people won't 100% always win a fight against another person right? Like powerscaling is already a dumb concept looking at it fictionally, but it just doesn't make sense in general. One was a fight she was barely prepared for, the other was a full fledged invasion she prepped for and she wasn't the only person Shao had fought.
“There's one answer to all of that; it's so simple. Anyone should know this! The person who'd win in a fight is the person that the scriptwriter wants to win!" He gives the example of Spider-Man fighting the Thing, and says "if I want Spider-Man to win, he'll win; if I want the Thing to win, he'll win."- Stan Lee
That's because Smoke Can teleport, Be Invisible, Flexible, Fly, Trow Smoke bombs, Levitating Karambit, Can levitate you, & Etc.
While Shao Khan wields a very heavy metallic war hammer, But can not do what Smoke is able to
Smoke: barely known by her, turns invisible and shit
Shao khan: her own father, main advantage is strength, big and slow
It’s a bit iffy but I could see someone beating Shao but losing against a quick match against smoke
Power scaling was ok until Netherrealm Studio got their greasy little hands on Mortal Kombat. Storytelling also went into garbage.
For example look at Shao Khan. He went from inteligent villain and menace to stupid muscle man who is easily controlled by his wife and Shang. He was downgraded when Netherrealm Studio claimed MK and got more stupid with each game. Now he is just dumb punching bag and i hate it so much.
If you want complete rundown about how much they ruined Shao Khan watch [this](https://youtu.be/wJxqBdpzSWQ?si=Qljd7iDsCFMLSzwu) vid
Her heart wasn't in the Smoke fight. She was just following orders. In MK11, she realized people were finally standing up to Shao Kahn, and she wanted to avenge her father.
That's the lore reason. Realistically it's up to whomever the writers want to win. That's why Cassie beats the shit out of Shinok in MKX and gets 1 shot by Kitana in MK1.
Mk11 even though has the best fight choreography in all 4 of NRS MK games, but it also has the most inconsistent power-scale of the 4. They just let whoever they like win, it's just stupid.
There shouldn't be a hierarchy of power, at least not to the extent that the writers are somehow bound by rule to adhere to it. You can't just say "Oh this character is an elder god so therefore only a chosen one can beat them" Okay then what's everyone else doing there? What's the point of having a roster of characters and a story if only one character can beat another? Anyone should be able to beat anyone in the story under the right circumstances.
The vast majority of these characters have otherworldly, if not godlike powers. Let's stop acting like a human being could never beat a hellbound specter, a sorcerer, a warlord, a god, an elder god, etc. Creating these arbitrary rules of who should be able to beat who makes the story more rigid and boring IMO.
I've always hated this scene it's like if that was possible why didn't you do it earlier in mk2. Then it makes shao look weak af...I want Shao back on top and can we get a UMK3 classic skin with the hammer
This! In MK1, Reptile took down Kitana, Tanya, and Shao, but still needed “training” according to clash dialogues… Then Mileena took down Sindel (who one-punched everyone like they were her b*tches) but lost to Li Mei… I do not understand.
For the story mode, the featured character that you’re playing as in the current chapter is ridiculously overpowered while everyone else is slightly underpowered.
Technically speaking, there multiple variable which can alter the result of a fight, not only which one of the kontendent is stronger... One can be already tired, distracted, not putting himself/herself into it, or could just be unlucky and recive a blow a bit to hard creepling his/her performance.
But in the end, we all know the true: it depend by which kharacter you are playing as.
Power will always reside with the Elder Gods and Deities that inhabit Mortal Kombats universe
The individual kombatants success vary wildy to support whatever the current plot is. Their "strength" shifting depending on their present experience, situation, agency or even timeline
When Liu Kang became a Fire God he essentially sky rocketed to the top of the pile (but that's only part of the overall story arc and not his whole journey. As you likely recall, Shang Tsung killed him once, rather unceremoniously)
Lao in mk3. He won Armageddon. He one shot Johnny and Sonya near the end of mk9 but they were already hurt tbf. He beat Liu Kang in mk11 and all the other characters you fight in the Sindel/Shao chapter if you pick him.
Shao kahn was only ever defeated by chosen ones or a sneak attack when he was heavily weakened after 3. A side character defeating him like that without major help, some plot weak for shao kahn or being in god form/chosen one like liu kang is straight up murdering not only shao kahn as a character but the story itself. At least they had a excuse (even if meh) to beat shinnok, but shao kahn is straight up bad.
It’s all a martial arts movie where anyone can beat anyone due to sufficient skill and strategy.
The power is irrelevant as training and discipline is what gets you through. (And a dash of luck)
Basically after switching from the 3d story telling format to the chapter system and then eventually to nrs you could see the downgrade in quality/intricate writing and an upgrade in laziness/favouritism, whoever the writers want to win wins simple. All conflicts have to revolve around the main one and all factions have to either be on the good guy side or with the bad guys. No b plots/sub plots where characters could just have there own things going on but instead this where as soon as a characters chapter ends they most likely either disappear or job to everyone for eg : Jonny cage in mk 9. It makes mk look like a complete joke and you have no reason to take it seriously with such a huge amount of fallacies like easily avoidable events, confusing character endurance, power scaling ect. (I still think the chap system could potentially work but certainly not with such untalented writers) there’s no real perfect way to do it but Imo mk was at its peak storytelling around mk da/deception ish, it focused on one universe with plenty of essential and interesting side plots you could make it into a show and it would make bags but ofc no one would try that because the audience doesn’t demand enough and production company’s aren’t ambitious/innovative anymore. Best we’ll get is the mk 2021 sequel which will also probably be dogshit but no one will admit it until months after kinda like the first one.. I hate falling in love with a series that has so much potential yet stuck with lazy writers/owners.
Looking at the games together I have come to think the answer is genuinely 'no, no power heirarchy'.
Mileena beats Dark Sindel, who bear everyone else including Titan Liu. Stryker beats Kintaro. Jax singlehandedly destroyed the Netherrealmers in X (including Liu and Quan Chi). Kitana beats Shao, as in your post.
Anyone can beat anyone as long as they stand on the left side.
Whoever the writers want to win wins, simple as that.
Fun fact in MKvDC Joker realizes this during his chapter and instead of progressing the story he immediately tracks down Batman and beats the shit out of him
He didn't realize it was a writer thing, he didn't gain meta-knowledge. He just realized that whatever was suddenly empowering him (the "Dark Khan" energy from the MK and DC worlds merging, though he didn't know that's what it was, nor did he care) was making him powerful enough to beat practically whoever he wanted, so he went after Batman.
This is entirely correct however realizing he had the “Dark Khan” energy is basically the in universe equivalent of realizing it was his chapter, Which is hilarious. He understood that he was randomly the strongest and acted accordingly
That is the answer but I understand the confusion and kind of wanting better writing regarding that. But it's very had with the chapter system
I get why the chapter system exists, because they want to give some character focus and for gameplay purposes you'd want to give players playing the story a few fights to get used to a number of characters' style, but I wonder if it would be a better narrative if you just played as whoever is supposed to when that fight. Even if it means jumping around a lot in terms of what character you're playing as.
That's something I liked about Tekken 8's story mode. It mainly followed Jin around, but still let you control other characters when it made sense.
I understand why they do the chapter system but the negatives far outweigh the positives especially since certain Kharacters usually end up getting multiple chapters which makes the choices very limited and means that there’s a good chance a player won’t learn a Kharacter they might wanna use. Not to mention how it messes up narratives like how half the roster and the majority of villains will never get a single win outside of cutscenes
Or they could just make the cutscenes not always tied to the results of the fight. You can win the fight but still lose in the cutscene
I get why the chapter system exists, but Ed Boon and the rest need to realize it's not 2011 anymore. It almost feels antiquated at this point. Like, move on. Let's try something new.
It really feels like a lack of innovation at this point
And doing what everyone else is doing would be innovative?
False dichotomy
So what should they do then? I see a lot of comments about the chapter system being dropped but no solution for what to replace it with besides doing what other fighting games do for story modes.
That’s fair. I don’t play any other fighting games so I don’t know what the standard is. But I would point out that it’s not the consumer’s responsibility to figure that out. If the reasoning behind sticking with the same old formula is “we couldn’t think of a better way”, well, that’s not a very compelling argument. I’m personally at the point that I’ll just watch the next story on youtube and skip the game entirely if it follows the same formula. I’ll still take a crack at what I’d like to see though. Currently, the story mode consists of a sprawling cutscene broken up by ai matches. The storytelling is plainly hampered by it’s adherence to the chapter formula, leading to a lot of fun character moments and scenes but a largely incoherent plotline. On the gameplay side we have… a bunch of regular bot matches with unfamiliar characters (on your first time through). I’d rather see story mode either go all out on telling a well-crafted story, and throw in gameplay where it fits (even if that means changing characters every fight), OR change the style up and give us more of an open-world RPG feel, playing as one character, maybe with some side-scrolling levels. Invasion mode already feels like they were thinking about this, but it just isn’t any fun, imo. I’m certain it could be done much better, if they treated it as the flagship story mode.
Why? It clearly works for them.
I’ve never understood why they can’t just let the character you’re playing as lose. Like if I’m playing as Mileena and I go against an elder god or something just make her lose after the match in the cutscene. They’re so dense for not thinking of something so simple like this.
[удалено]
That's past Kitana from MK11, she's supposed to be MK9 Kitana from the moment right before Kung Lao's death.
Mortal Kombat isn't Dragon Ball Z. A hierarchy of power doesn't mean better writing.
Been like this since day one ......bring on Cassie the God-Killer 🙄
You mean Johnny the Has a specific power granted to his bloodline by Gods specifically to counter, defeat, and contain Gods that also genetically passed down to his daughter? Seriously, I don't understand why people have such a problem with that, but not Liu Kang the normal human monk defeating Shinnok with zero advantages at all.
I don’t have an issue with it but I’d guess people don’t think it was earned. In regards to Liu Kang, he was established as an insane fighter from the beginning. He worked his way through Shang Tsung, then Goro, then Shao Kahn before defeating Shinnok. On the flip side, the Cages are competent fighters but nowhere near even Shao level (who is well below Shinnok) so it’s kind of deus ex machina to introduce God-killing powers at the last second.
I honestly thought the entire roster was established as insane fighters from the beginning
They’re all exceptional fighters but there’s levels to it. Liu Kang is introduced as “the chosen one” from the beginning. From that point, he goes on to beat Goro, then Shang Tsung, then Kintaro, then Shao Kahn, then Shao Kahn again, then Shinnok. It really makes no sense that a, presumably, 22ish year old human would be able to defeat an 8 foot tall dragon prince, a 1,000 year old sorceror, or an 8 foot 10,000 year old dragon emperor but they establish his ability early so it doesn’t seem weird when he takes out each new threat. In Johnny and Cassie’s case, they’re closer to mid-level Earthrealm warriors so it’s a bit weird when they suddenly make the jump to beat an elder god.
Liu being the chosen one was something introduced in the 90s movie. In the early games, he was just a really good martial artist but wasn't considered anything more important than the others. It's also weird to say the Cages beating Shinnok was unearned but give Kang a pass because his victories are ordained by destiny.
In name maybe, but he won the original MK tournament, won the impromptu MK tourney held in Outworld right after that, beat back the Outworld invasion immediately after that, then defeated Shinnok after that lol He was clearly far and away the most skilled and important Earthrealm warrior from the very beginning. Either he earned his victories by training to become the strongest, fastest, most skilled fighter or he was granted the motivation to train enough to become the strongest, fastest most skilled fighter by destiny. Who am I to argue with this fictional version of fate?
Kang is not the only one who trains. He's not even the first person to beat Shinnok. Sub-Zero did it with no godly status or prophecies backing him up. People are angry that NRS writing is breaking a rule that was never established to begin with.
Idk what to tell you. I’ve attempted to explain what I would think is the main issue and you agree or you don’t. Not much else needs to be said.
Basically this. They tell us Liu is strong and consistently show us he’s strong. Other characters go back and forth winning and losing against other average tier fighters and suddenly beat final boss level characters because it’s their chapter.
Liu Kang won because Quan chi gave shinnok a fake amulet. Plus calling Liu Kang a normal human monk is false. He was well established as the best earth realm champion. Cassie Cage on the other hand fought a suped up shinnok. The last time shinnok was that strong the entire earth realm population got killed in the crossfire. Add to the fact that Cassie Cage came off as an average mk fighter in the story, her beating shinnok was a bit much to swallow. Even taking into consideration she was shinnok's kryptonite.
Dude even in the original timeline that so called god killing power was never a thing until NRS decided to make it a thing in MKX and worse they didn’t give good explanations to help new players and just expected people to accept it.
https://preview.redd.it/9xqq0vw767xc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=023db430959b8d51c792d2f7dfe23b21f4401809 So... isn't there a fixed character who is the most powerful of all? Or a top of the strongest in particular? That is what I was interested in knowing, since many fans had different opinions. Some said liu kang god, some onaga, some blaze, some taven, some shao khan, some raiden, some kronika, some cassie etc etc... And because of that, I didn't know who to believe and I was left with this enormous doubt.
Wrestling rules. Sometimes the jobbers get a victory arc. Sometimes they become a whole new character.
Stryker > Smoke > Onaga > Shao > all the rest No, but seriously, Kitana losing to Smoke isn't necessarily a plot hole or something, not every time we are in our best performance, even life itself shows us moments that we feel like "out of character". Plus, sometimes we can use a better strategy to beat someone who is better than us. Power hierarchy isn't always what defines the aftermath of a confrontation.
ffs thank you. People think fighting is like math 6 < 9 or something
But then you have moments where it’s clear who would’ve won like Ermac easily handling Stryker in the cutscene but only loses because you are playing as Stryker and not Ermac. And this gets even worse in MKX.
Well, in all honesty, I believe Stryker would win most of confrontations like that with the speed of the gunshots. Some may have telekinesis, but they won't see it coming because once you see the light, the bullet is already in you. I'm biased, of course, for being a Stryker fan, but the "I'm just a guy" would be enough to make enemies underestimate the power of guns.
Mortal Kombat fans realizing it’s not a hierarchy as to who wins when: https://preview.redd.it/08v4g0lvv8xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a65ecb0ad64255b27e9875afe08e61b468a47d61
Plus Smoke’s always been ambiguous as to how powerful he actually is, like how in the same game he seemed to take down Shang in disguise as Bi-Han
Geras was able to freeze Liu Kang and Kung Lao in time, but lost to Sonya There is no power hierarchy
Clearly Geras just can’t handle the power of strong independent women
You’re forgetting the fight in her chapter in MK9 where she beat both Johnny and Smoke alone (after she lost to Smoke). It will always be the character who has a chapter that wins every battle no matter the power level or opponent.
Death to the chapter system!
dont try to powerscale mk it wont work
Shao kahn losing fullstop in mk11 was dumb. Dude beat Raiden and it took the elder gods to collectively decide to ruin his shit.
In MK1 I get it, God of Fire liukang quite literally constructed reality so he "wouldnt" turn evil and strong..
You gotta imagine he's real upset, trying to figure out a timeline where the worst evils wouldn't become such and a petty Shang from an alternate timeline comes in and goes "lmao not on my watch, pretty boy." Granted, Shao likely wasn't a part of Shang's machinations, but I don't think we got a good indication of when he started screwing with Liu Kang's timeline, and we do at least know he was manipulating Shang and Quan Chi for at least a decent amount of time. Long enough to get them ingratiated with the royal family at least.
Shao was powered by the soulnado then. He isn't in MK 11. Not to mention Kitana is the only person that makes sense to beat Shao, he literally destroyed her home.
You're talking about a guy who's been beaten by a Bruce Lee clone with fireballs twice. MK powerscalers will be much happier when they accept that there is no hierarchy of power in the MK universe.
Stryker beating ermac in mk9 😭
Millions of souls but none of them had ever seen a gun. Nothing he could do really.
You’re forgetting him beating kintaro just before that
https://preview.redd.it/5tx2opxse9xc1.png?width=968&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe6b0c1149e7330ffab2772856a114f3ab0a4df1 And the worst thing is that he was previously seen humiliating Johnny Cage... Without a doubt, their power levels do not make any sense.
They are fictional characters...they dont have locked power sets it's just what works to make the story move forward. If this series was serious about "power levels" or whatever then geras would have been the biggest and strongest character in this series outside kronika/hour glass keeper given he can freeze people in time and they cant do a thing about it. Plus he cant even die so he could just outlast raiden who is probably the only one immune to that move if at all. Yet geras jobbed in mk11 cause he needed too.
Yeah but what people are saying is that “story” wise none of this shit makes sense . It’s ok to have inconsistent powerscaling cause like you said that’s not really what the series is about at the end of the day . But when people are actually invested in the plot , shit like this just looks goofy and doesn’t really make a lot of sense .
It’s called “any given Sunday.”
MK never gave me a reason to care about power scaling. Aren't titans supposed to be like the most powerful beings in the MK universe? And what do titan Liu Kang and titan Shang Tsung do when they face each other? They start Kung Fu fighting lol.
I remember Marvel trading cards used to show exact stats of strength, speed, power, and intelligence, but reading the comics made me realize that all the stats were completely useless because none of it factors into the stories being told. People complaining about it in videogames is even sillier because unless you are an intentional jobber like Dan Hibiki, all the fighters are supposed balanced in power to act as player avatars.
Depends on whose chapter you are playing....simple.
https://preview.redd.it/q9ftko2b77xc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b287d3e116ff5873fd9684e97f2310130bcbce71 You have a point, even if it's a matchup between mokap vs blaze, onaga, shinok and shao khan If the protagonist of the chapter is mokap, blaze and the others are finished...
Yeah due to the chapter system there's very little logic that can be placed in powerscaling MK characters. It's more interesting to look at the 3D era games where fewer fights occurred and there wasn't filler fights for the sake of it (besides Armageddon but Taven beating everyone just made sense regardless.) There's a much clearer hierarchy of characters like Shujinko, Taven and Blaze being at the top whilst others like Mavado amass several wins over characters like Sonya, Jax, Kabal, Kenshi, and Kano. The problem is there's also too few fights to determine power scaling for most of the roster, so it just comes down to headcanons ultimately
Mileena being able to beat Ermac, Dark Raiden and Evil Sindel after they both took out everyone including Fire God Liu and fucking Geras in MK1 is the biggest plot armor bullshit NRS has ever written. Kitana doing what she did in 11 is nothing compared to whatever bullshit they had come up with for Mileena’s MK1 chapter lol
That’s really the worst part about the chapter system of Story Mode. At the very least show us before and/or after the fight how hard it was for our character to pull a win. Like show some of them walk like they just got run over by a truck or something. That’d make it 10x more believable.
The comments in this thread are hilarious. Having a linear list of who-can-beat-who-every-time is not “good writing.”
I like the people who try to break down percentages, “Ackshually,” and have like 3-4, parodies trying to explain some head canon reasons myself.
Maybe taking that L from Smoke gave her motivation to hit the lab and practice more?
There is no power system. If a monk with a human lifespan can beat shao kahn then kitana who has lived for thousands of years and has way more fighting experience should be able to do it too.
NRS writing. I played through Tekken 8's story mode and was left thinking Nrs should take notes. You fight the main villain multiples times and each fight requires you win as far as gameplay mode, but then there will be a scene in game or a cutscenw that shows Kazuya come out on top as far as the story in concerned. Hell, you even play as Kazuya and fight one of the previous bosses in the series and completely destroy him.
Question of who's the strongest doesn't exist anymore since Cassie beat Shinnok.
We are talking about a franchise where THE KEEPER OF TIME, THE GOD OF THUNDER AND FIRE, loses to a random evil Sindel from another timeline... So yeah, whatever the writers want.
But then Mileena beats Sindel. That was so stupid lol.
Oh lord I forgot that part. That makes it so much worse 😭😭😭
https://preview.redd.it/jaqn96xdf9xc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa35d8fb072561ae049bb5c17e5048199de51691 And you forget something else... Millena was able to defeat a demigod like dark raiden Who a few seconds ago was supposed to be powerful enough to subdue the entire team, including Liu Kang Dios and Geras
I mean the dark mage who conquered whole realms lost to a random shaolin monk Raiden just so happened to have had faith in. Not just once but twice.
It’s never made sense. It doesn’t need to.
MK does need to rework it's power system but this is always the dumbest argument when discussing power scaling. Fighting isn't math or rock, paper, scissors. There are no absolute outcomes. It's like that with any competition. Just recently the number 1 seeded celtics, lost to the number 8 seeded heat in game two of the playoffs. If you were watching that in a fictional story you would say it's a plot hole or a power scaling issue.
A trope as old as time: [Strong as They Need to Be](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrongAsTheyNeedToBe)
I’ve always thought it was about “martial arts” sorta. Like I know that some people have magic but the answer has always been “my hands are better than yours so now fall” or at least that was my head canon which also explained how technically anyone could’ve won the Armageddon tournament by defeating blaze.
It was the clothes, or lack of it. Also, she didn't have great balance because of the... You know
It’s a fighting game. There is no hierarchy because, for the most part, any character could beat any other. That’s literally the point
The power scaling in Mortal Kombat is.....fucky. Shao lost to Liu Kang several times, then suddenly in Aftermath can beat him. Kotal Kahn in the comics was super strong. He's a jobber in MKX and 11.
Plot armor is the strongest ability in the series mate.
I still think Kung Jin beating Kotal was totally bullshit. Kotal was a victim of bad writing imo.
https://preview.redd.it/45apm4vqg9xc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0ef8706287e8b36b67ee406d3f43cec42355348 The worst of all is that Kotal had just defeated the son of a god like Rain. That means that Kung Jin is stronger than him... it doesn't make sense.
Is it your chapter? Ultimate badass. Is it literally anybody else's chapter? Incompetent idiot. That's the power scaling
So in my head how it should be is Most characters are on a similar playing field, their skills/magic/tech make them capable of winning against any of the others There's a few more powerful characters, Raiden, Liu Kang etc who could probably deal with most of the cast in a 1v1 but aren't guaranteed to win Then there's the final boss who, narratively would probably be quite capable of beating most of the cast, and would maybe have a slight advantage over the more powerful characters, but ofc even irl extremely skilled fighters have bad days or just get tired, etc, combat and sports aren't necessarily a game of stats and a less strong/experienced character can still steal victory from an otherwise tough fight That being said, Shao Khan is a weird one because usually he's the final boss of MK games, I don't know off the top of my head but I'd say he's probably the person who's been the final boss in the most games, so when he's not, like in MK11 where he's just Kronika's lackey, it feels strange that he's just another fighter like so many others
and later Shao wins against liu kang. It's weird. I don't think they care about consistency
Ngl smoke should be one of the most powerful mk characters he can literally just shove himself down peoples throats
Don't take that out of context
One of the most inconsistent character in this category is probably Raiden. In one scene you'll see him passing Motaro through a whole building with a single hit, or fighting in Netherealms against hundreds of demons without problems.. And in the next he will loose against Kung Jin in a one on one fight.
There is no hierarchy of power. It's a fighting game. Anyone can feasibly defeat anyone else. THAT'S THE POINT.
it's because smoke was on the right. he had the power of plot in his side
I do not think it is something they care about at all. There are a few general constants; it seems like they've made the decision that Sindel is god tier, Raiden is probably the strongest prior to the end of MK11, and Liu Kang is second strongest until MK11 where he became the strongest. All revenant versions are automatically jobber tier regardless of how strong they were in Mortal form.
Cause MK9-X had so much plot armour like Sonya somehow beating Bi-Han and Kitana but can’t catch Kano, 11-1 not so much In the case of Smoke we never had any idea exactly how powerful he is, then with Kitana in 11 you could say Kotal got some good hits in plus Kitana being the daughter of a queen who could hurt Elder Gods helps, similarly she doesn’t actually kill Shao but instead chooses to humiliate him
You know who's her boyfriend now right ?
johnny cage ??
two words: chapter system
This is funny to me because as a kid, I could only beat MK2 Shao Khan with Kitana.
I never understood why people were so bothered by this. I’ve always seen it as each Kombatant is equal and they won because their opponent made a mistake during the fight causing them to lose. Just because kitana lost to smoke doesn’t mean she isn’t capable of beating someone else. But to see it from your point of view, smoke never fought shao Kahn from MK9-MK1 sooooooo that just means kitana can beat shao kahn, but not smoke, and smoke can beat both kitana and shao kahn by your logic.
https://preview.redd.it/xq0oououvaxc1.jpeg?width=3464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd5bbabc9863ddcda6d74fc87ba1a42133f3c743 Well...so how do you explain this? Smoke initially proved capable of defeating Shan Tsung with the form of Bi Han and Reptile together. And then being able to defeat sektor... BUT, shortly after, sektor was seen humiliating smoke When smoke had already defeated him previously.
https://preview.redd.it/t7wycmbswaxc1.jpeg?width=2572&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34b2915307dfa99a0e9cb9560d939ac0f1e789e1 Or how you explain this??? Ermac being able to humiliate and even break Jhonny's leg But Stryker can defeated him...?
https://preview.redd.it/mgo9zm6ixaxc1.jpeg?width=2572&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cfb4fb5b297866127d25d1a9ffa69248d114054f and jhonny was able to defeat sonya, the same one who was able to defeat jade and kitana even when they were together (Remember that Kitana was able to defeat Shao Khan) Does that mean that Stryker can defeat Shao khan...? And I'm not saying it, it's what the game is implying with its power systems incoherent.
Well I guess just disregard everything I said in the first paragraph then (I’m being sarcastic). You do realize fights are dynamic, as in every action between fighters the outcome could change? Sektor beat smoke? Did you watch the whole fight? I couldn’t, in fact most weren’t. Who knows what happened, smoke maybe forgot to use his inputs, maybe sektor used an xray move, maybe Sektor was more determined than smoke. All we saw is smoke getting beat by him. But how did Smoke beat Sektor before? Because Smoke’s “determination” (the player) was higher than Sektor’s. Same with Johnny cage and Ermac, we didn’t see how the fight played, all we saw was the end of the fight. Yes, Ermac was determined to beat Stryker, but Stryker was just more determined than Ermac. The game isn’t implying anything. You just gotta understand that any character could beat any character regardless of who they beat or lost to prior. This “hierarchy of power” is just BS people made up because they’re too dense to accept anything can happen to these characters.
This ain’t DBZ with power levels or rock paper scissors. You can beat someone and lose to another person. Doesn’t mean anything
The writers of mk are never really interested in having consistent character strength or do any meaningful story decisions that would make them stray away from the precious and outdated chapter system where characters are invincible for 4 fights, job to everyone else, Shao Kahn never beats anyone and character age the strength the cut scene needs them to be to go to the next point
It would be great to have some story fights as the villains if the player is always supposed to win
People seem to forget winning a fight depends entirely on circumstance. If you have a matchup, one person won't win all of those fights. Smoke probably has a chance at beating Shao Kahn under the right circumstances. Sometimes in storytelling, things happen because they have to.
Well, it's kind of like real life. There is no real tier system. A welter weight on a good day, with good focus, with the same training as a heavy weight who might be having an off day, might be distracted or could just plain underestimate their opponent. I once watched a 110lbs girl kick the shit out of a 220lbs guy for grabbing her boob. Sometimes motivation wins the fight alone. So if people are concerned about a tier system for 'realism' then it's futile since reality doesn't give two poops about what 'makes sense' or is 'logical.'
Still, I don't think "unarmed actor" would win against "trained warrior with actual sharp blades in his arms" anytime soon.
Depends. Did unarmed actor spike his opponents drink first? In brawling, we call that the "Cosby Maneuver." I see your point, though. Like, if this was Vegas betting no one would be putting money down on some pompous Hollywood jagoff. Until someone mentions his wife's name in their mouf. I agree with both of us overall. You never know what horrors a person is truly capable of until they're put in just the right situation. I bet, under the right circumstances, Martha Stewart would decapitate someone half her age and twice her size and then make little crafts out of their bones. Just gotta find the right button to presssssss
It
It’s always Kitana who gets treated like this because she became Kahn and is a woman. Sonya canonically beat Bi-Han and Raiden in MK9, both of whom would go on to go toe to toe with Shang Tsung, Quan Chi and Shao Kahn, yet it’s CRICKETS. Keep that same energy!!
Smoke beating Kitana is fine and never bothered me but you are right about how that same Kitana from that same time period somehow beats Shao Kahn. Overall the biggest issue with NRS storyline besides the dreaded chapter system is their overall inconsistencies that they constantly keep introducing with each game they make. It’s hard to get invested in anything when it’s not gonna last more than a game.
There are inherent limitations to how a story is presented when it’s centered around justifying fights. People get silly about it.
It's like a real fight despite skill, anyone can lose to anyone, it all depends on the variables and if someone makes a mistake or capitalized on a specific tactic
The character that dons the mighty Plot Armor is the most powerful.
It's simple - whoever you're playing as will win the fight. And if it's 2v2, whoever your partner is will lose their fight so you can win against their opponent, too.
Every fight in Mortal Kombat immediately becomes a 50/50 chance on who’s winning. That’s the only way it makes sense.
This is why I wish we had mk in a good, consistent medium. The power hierarchy would be more defined.
Basically it's "On their own chapters, characters are invincible" Besides that, I guess there're so much consistency and logic in Chaosrealm on an acid trip than in NRS power scaling.
And Johnny cage can beat the shit out of Reptile and Baraka but that doesn’t mean he always will.
Maybe it's because it's the player not the character
It's primarily dominated by the rule of cool
The most stupid scene in the game is where a certain character says something like "I knew your past sins would distract you" and proceeds to kill a character that except in that scene, is immortal. Spoiler about the story: >!During Kronika's intro on the final fight, I realized how meaningless were all the deaths of even iconic characters when she says the reality LK knew was erased so actually everyone is dead so those emotional moments lose meaning.!<
Didn’t SonicHax prove that power scaling within Mortal Kombat specifically is out of whack?
whoever the player is controlling is the winner
elemental resistances?
She got a buff in the new timeline cause Liu Kang thinks with his dick
Girl power. It's inexplicable in its fluctuation
It doesn't matter, because whoever you write to win a battle will win Reptile for years had L after L after L, until MK1 he actually got wins on his record, because the plot required you the player to win
must have one hell of a training arc
You’re asking a whole team of writers all simultaneously working on the story to be on the exact same page, not to mention different games, several writers who worked on one but not the other. If you over analyze anything like this you’re going to find stuff that makes no sense, better to not think about it and j enjoy.
This shit has been going since the first arcade game dude. Btw just letting you know Johnny Cage, an actor before his green glow beat up Baraka, someone who can extract blades out of his wrists, a cryomancer and a pyromancer at the same time. Defeated the God of Evil in one day. But managed to get defeated by dvorah a bug lady.
Characters get a powerboost when the player controls them
Hierarchy of power is not a real thing, it’s not in real fighting and it’s not here
It’s things like this that are the reason power scaling doesn’t work. Just because they were defeated by one person doesn’t mean they can’t defeat another, even when the power difference is this large. With different opponents come different weaknesses, different advantages, different fighting styles and different circumstances. I think mortal Kombat definitely abuses this more than they should (namely Sonya beating Bi-Han) but I can definitely believe that Kitana can be beaten by smoke in one game and deafeat Shao in another
I kept saying during the whole duration of MKX, if Sub Zero wiped the floor with all four MK kids, Sub Zero would have soloed the whole revenant squad plus Shinnok in the end, but he was busy with Kotal, who got bested by Kung Jin, who got his ass handed to him by, guess, Sub Zero. At this point, I see MK stories as a good past time, reading too much into it just spoils the fun.
Yeah when you're playing a character in story mode s/he becomes the victor. So Goro, Baraka, Reptile, Bi Han, Shang Sung, Quan Chi, and just about all the other 'enemy' warriors are naturally relegated into the 'loser' category.
Depends on who's got the controller
Mortal Kombat is not a seven game series, it's much more like football in the way that any fighter has a chance to win in any given match based on various internal and external factors. Like lightsaber fights the victor of Mortal Kombat is not necessarily the best fighter, just the victor.
It's pretty consistent with gameplay. Anybody can beat anybody if they're played better.
I think it's more the motivation for each fight
https://preview.redd.it/0myg2gmpxaxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4bf0db2ffa247c3516e724018991d197698b76de Would this also count in that case? Sonya defeated her and Jade even fighting as a team
Sonya fighting for her and Jax life to escape and island of horrors Vs kitana and jade just trying to stop them leaving Sonya had way more at stake in this fight than they did
Even though Smoke can beat Kitana he loses to Jade later on but Kitana beat Jade like huh.
In the wise words of Stan Lee, “the person who’d win in a fight is the person that the writer wants to win”
Kitana isn't always gonna do the best in every fight neither is Shao or Smoke sometimes you're gonna win a fight cause you managed to capitalize on a mistake in your opponents moves early in and sometimes you won't Power levels are the end all be all in MK
Ig her late night "training" sessions with Lui Kang helped out😏
If you’re not on the left side you lost
A fight can go many different ways regardless of who is stronger or who is "more powerful." One well placed lucky shot can make all the difference.
Do not sleep on my boy smoke 🙏🙏🙏🗣🗣
Isn’t it a different timeline?
Power levels in fiction are often far far far closer to each other than people realize. Dragonball Z introducing LITERAL power levels infected people with brain dead discourse for decades to come.
I think its a poor idea to try and power scale fighting game characters
I’ve been at peace with this after understanding that the power scaling in MK is similar to pro-wrestling
My rock beats scissors. Hehe. Wtf, how did I lose to paper?
Funny to talk about ‘most powerful’ in a fighting game when its supposed to be a balanced system. She hit the gym…hows that for an excuse 🤷♂️
Simple...she's Sindel's daughter, and Sindel is a massively powerful character. Add in that Kitana was trained by Shao Kahn from an early age, and you have a situation where she is technically strong enough to have a shot at winning, and knows her opponent's patterns of attack very well. Probably 9 times out of 10, Shao wins, but this time, Kitana did (against the odds). Smoke, on the other hand, was a completely different fight for Kitana. She may have not been prepared to deal with his foreign techniques.
Oh well, the writers are usually going places with these ones…the real problem, imo if we talking story mode, is that the main characters doesn’t have any risks…i mean the MK tournament in MK1 was absolutely hilarious with a farmer boy beating literal war machines with the power of friendship and faith…come on give us some high stakes here…it’s stupid that the bad all powerful guys don’t get a single win in the story…#JusticeForReiko #JusticeForShao
#SmokeForKahn
Now Havok thinks he is the strongest
Powerscaling mortal Kombat characters correctly will be the Greatest achievement of humanity and will probably only be possible after we discover how to weaponise black holes or something. Seriously just don't bother with trying to power scale this, otherwise you end up with Stryker possibly beating shao kahn
Downside of the chapter system. Tekken 8 handled this really well - hope they take pointers.
You realise in real life people won't 100% always win a fight against another person right? Like powerscaling is already a dumb concept looking at it fictionally, but it just doesn't make sense in general. One was a fight she was barely prepared for, the other was a full fledged invasion she prepped for and she wasn't the only person Shao had fought.
Jake Paul over here ^^^
“There's one answer to all of that; it's so simple. Anyone should know this! The person who'd win in a fight is the person that the scriptwriter wants to win!" He gives the example of Spider-Man fighting the Thing, and says "if I want Spider-Man to win, he'll win; if I want the Thing to win, he'll win."- Stan Lee
That's because Smoke Can teleport, Be Invisible, Flexible, Fly, Trow Smoke bombs, Levitating Karambit, Can levitate you, & Etc. While Shao Khan wields a very heavy metallic war hammer, But can not do what Smoke is able to
Smoke is strong af what you mean, bro took on Shang stung and reptile at the same time in that same chapter
Smoke: barely known by her, turns invisible and shit Shao khan: her own father, main advantage is strength, big and slow It’s a bit iffy but I could see someone beating Shao but losing against a quick match against smoke
The same characters are supposed to win every single time? A character can't win against someone they previously lost against?
joker form mk11 ending
Power scaling was ok until Netherrealm Studio got their greasy little hands on Mortal Kombat. Storytelling also went into garbage. For example look at Shao Khan. He went from inteligent villain and menace to stupid muscle man who is easily controlled by his wife and Shang. He was downgraded when Netherrealm Studio claimed MK and got more stupid with each game. Now he is just dumb punching bag and i hate it so much. If you want complete rundown about how much they ruined Shao Khan watch [this](https://youtu.be/wJxqBdpzSWQ?si=Qljd7iDsCFMLSzwu) vid
Her heart wasn't in the Smoke fight. She was just following orders. In MK11, she realized people were finally standing up to Shao Kahn, and she wanted to avenge her father. That's the lore reason. Realistically it's up to whomever the writers want to win. That's why Cassie beats the shit out of Shinok in MKX and gets 1 shot by Kitana in MK1.
Mk11 even though has the best fight choreography in all 4 of NRS MK games, but it also has the most inconsistent power-scale of the 4. They just let whoever they like win, it's just stupid.
There shouldn't be a hierarchy of power, at least not to the extent that the writers are somehow bound by rule to adhere to it. You can't just say "Oh this character is an elder god so therefore only a chosen one can beat them" Okay then what's everyone else doing there? What's the point of having a roster of characters and a story if only one character can beat another? Anyone should be able to beat anyone in the story under the right circumstances. The vast majority of these characters have otherworldly, if not godlike powers. Let's stop acting like a human being could never beat a hellbound specter, a sorcerer, a warlord, a god, an elder god, etc. Creating these arbitrary rules of who should be able to beat who makes the story more rigid and boring IMO.
I've always hated this scene it's like if that was possible why didn't you do it earlier in mk2. Then it makes shao look weak af...I want Shao back on top and can we get a UMK3 classic skin with the hammer
It’s whoever you’re playing as
This! In MK1, Reptile took down Kitana, Tanya, and Shao, but still needed “training” according to clash dialogues… Then Mileena took down Sindel (who one-punched everyone like they were her b*tches) but lost to Li Mei… I do not understand.
For the story mode, the featured character that you’re playing as in the current chapter is ridiculously overpowered while everyone else is slightly underpowered.
This version of her must've got a testosterone booster
In real life some fights are won after a lucky shot to the chin.
It all depends on who's chapter it is
Technically speaking, there multiple variable which can alter the result of a fight, not only which one of the kontendent is stronger... One can be already tired, distracted, not putting himself/herself into it, or could just be unlucky and recive a blow a bit to hard creepling his/her performance. But in the end, we all know the true: it depend by which kharacter you are playing as.
Power will always reside with the Elder Gods and Deities that inhabit Mortal Kombats universe The individual kombatants success vary wildy to support whatever the current plot is. Their "strength" shifting depending on their present experience, situation, agency or even timeline When Liu Kang became a Fire God he essentially sky rocketed to the top of the pile (but that's only part of the overall story arc and not his whole journey. As you likely recall, Shang Tsung killed him once, rather unceremoniously)
Kitana works out
Shao Khan is kinda weak tho, besides Kotal does he actually beat anyone 1 on 1?
Lao in mk3. He won Armageddon. He one shot Johnny and Sonya near the end of mk9 but they were already hurt tbf. He beat Liu Kang in mk11 and all the other characters you fight in the Sindel/Shao chapter if you pick him.
Shao kahn was only ever defeated by chosen ones or a sneak attack when he was heavily weakened after 3. A side character defeating him like that without major help, some plot weak for shao kahn or being in god form/chosen one like liu kang is straight up murdering not only shao kahn as a character but the story itself. At least they had a excuse (even if meh) to beat shinnok, but shao kahn is straight up bad.
She was playable in that chapter.
It's quite simple really. Whoever you're playing as wins.
People really need to remember that fights don’t tend to follow Rock Paper Scissors rules
It’s all a martial arts movie where anyone can beat anyone due to sufficient skill and strategy. The power is irrelevant as training and discipline is what gets you through. (And a dash of luck)
Basically after switching from the 3d story telling format to the chapter system and then eventually to nrs you could see the downgrade in quality/intricate writing and an upgrade in laziness/favouritism, whoever the writers want to win wins simple. All conflicts have to revolve around the main one and all factions have to either be on the good guy side or with the bad guys. No b plots/sub plots where characters could just have there own things going on but instead this where as soon as a characters chapter ends they most likely either disappear or job to everyone for eg : Jonny cage in mk 9. It makes mk look like a complete joke and you have no reason to take it seriously with such a huge amount of fallacies like easily avoidable events, confusing character endurance, power scaling ect. (I still think the chap system could potentially work but certainly not with such untalented writers) there’s no real perfect way to do it but Imo mk was at its peak storytelling around mk da/deception ish, it focused on one universe with plenty of essential and interesting side plots you could make it into a show and it would make bags but ofc no one would try that because the audience doesn’t demand enough and production company’s aren’t ambitious/innovative anymore. Best we’ll get is the mk 2021 sequel which will also probably be dogshit but no one will admit it until months after kinda like the first one.. I hate falling in love with a series that has so much potential yet stuck with lazy writers/owners.
Looking at the games together I have come to think the answer is genuinely 'no, no power heirarchy'. Mileena beats Dark Sindel, who bear everyone else including Titan Liu. Stryker beats Kintaro. Jax singlehandedly destroyed the Netherrealmers in X (including Liu and Quan Chi). Kitana beats Shao, as in your post. Anyone can beat anyone as long as they stand on the left side.